wanted to join in on that meta post by saying yeah, even if we view joker’s and akechi’s relationship as special compared to the others, akechi is still written under the constraints of p5, and an antagonist to boot. like. vanilla had his confidant as automatic bc (iirc) they thought they couldn’t fit it in properly! which is crazy, even tho the automatic rank ups have an interesting implication (such as, akechi will always be rank 10 by the end no matter what you do). i understand that ppl probably wanted someone to talk sense into the thieves for their unwittingly callous actions, but not by the guy who decided to go thru with his 11/20 plan lol
(this post)
YEAH like, I love Akechi. I adore him. But I have SO many OPINIONS about this mans. like. I'm not going berate anyone for how they write characters, that's the freedom of fandom, but I am going to stand over here with my opinions and contrary thoughts and chitchat about them in my space
I know that very often it is because people want someone to refute what canon has shown us (because canon's writing disagrees with it's desired goals as mentioned in that post). They want someone to go "Look at Joker, look at what's happened to him, don't you care? How risky this was?"
But okay I'm actually going to back up a bit!
(this got long)
What other choice was there for 11/20?
Because the answer is not "they could have taken Akechi in a fight."
The goals of the interrogation room/metaverse plan:
Escape with Joker alive
Trick Shido and the conspiracy into believing Joker has died
and you know? you know? you cannot do that latter bullet point if you just beat up Akechi
So enlighten me. How, exactly, were the thieves supposed to come up with a different plan in under 20 days? One where Joker would live, where the conspiracy would believe he had died, and importantly, one that at that point in time cannot count on Akechi being a turncoat. They have no reason to trust that he would
"Don't you care about how risky this was? There had to have been other ways."
We don't get Shido's name as Akechi's employer here until after the phonecall reporting the death, I believe. They cannot change Shido's heart in time to avert this because they do not have the information. The interrogation room plan, genuinely, was one of the smartest ideas they had. It accomplished exactly what they needed to. These are teens in a life-or-death situation, who notoriously have MANY trust issues with adults for good reason, especially since society is so corrupt that a hitman can easily walk into a police department and assassinate a high-profile criminal and get away with it with help (remember the guard at the door?) The other options are basically "change your identity and flee the country" or "literally actually die" lets be real here!
SO
Akechi, let's be honest with ourselves here, would primarily be pissed off that the thieves got one over on him! And if he is concerned about the lasting trauma of it all, or how risky the plan was, he is seeing this and approaching it from the angle of knowing it worked.
(Better options for sense-talking: Sojiro! Sojiro is right there! Takemi! Iwai! Kawakami! Yoshida! All important responsible adult figures to Joker and at least some of the thieves.)
In my opinion if Akechi wants to snark at the thieves about the plan in any way regarding how much it fucks up Joker and how it was risky, they are more than allowed to fire back shots at him for making it necessary and shooting Joker in the head in the first place.
I think people often use it as a shorthand, to show that Akechi cares about Joker, but also as a way to emphasize the importance of Akechi to Joker (compared to the rest of the thieves). It's easier to ignore the fact that he killed two of the thieves's parents when it comes to Joker being in a relationship with him, as long as it can be shown that he's the one that really cares. That he wouldn't put Joker through something so fucked up with his care (hilarious, laughable, he shot Joker in the head). It separates "Akechi and Joker" from all the phantom thieves in a way.
(Honestly sometimes it feels like ship bashing/character bashing but for ALL the phantom thieves with how intensely some people write it! beyond even the point of exploring Atlus fucking up characterization to pretend to have a blank slate silent protag)
BUT like I said in the post, it also points out a major flaw with convincing players that the rest of the thieves DO care in the game. Because the thieves are never really given a chance to show that. It's implied, and it's clear the game wants you to believe they care, but we don't get scenes addressing specific stuff like this enough.
Joker is confident, and cocky, we see that with that bastard smile in the interrogation room after getting "shot" in those cutscenes. It is genuinely a plan to be proud of, and it hails back to his original persona being Arsène. Arsène, who escaped from prison simply by disguising himself and pretending he had already escaped and put a body double in his place. Arsène, who pulled off a robbery while in jail. Arrogant and self-assured and cocky, the interrogation room plan is genuinely something the likes that would be worthy of Arsène's name.
He can be proud of the plan, and also traumatized by it. But he actively agreed to this plan, probably helped come up with it (where does everyone get the idea that it was Makoto's plan? genuine question). Joker is not a hapless victim of other's whims, he also had agency. So many of the parallels between Joker and Akechi are how they exercise what agency they have while being stripped of traditional power and victimized by society.
Honestly? Honestly? In my personal opinion, having Akechi berate the thieves for the plan is disrespectful to his rivalry with Joker, along with his own characterization.
He holds Joker as his equal. Equal in agency, in skill. If he looks at Joker and says, "why would you go along with such a foolish plan?" if he looks at the thieves and says "why would you ever put your precious leader through this?" he is taking away Joker's agency and choices. One of Akechi's focal points is agency. If he sees Joker as equal in this, and he denies Joker his agency, he is also taking it away from himself.
Akechi's cocktail of emotions regarding the assassination can manifest in so many different ways, and he can translate that to anger at the thieves rather than himself for putting Joker through that, but that would be his emotions regarding himself being misdirected more than anything.
Akechi has too much respect for Joker to deny Joker his agency in a plan that was good enough to fool him.
Respecting agency and admiring a brilliantly crafted plan also doesn't mean ignoring trauma that ocurred from actions taken under duress.
(At least, it doesn't mean that as long as you're not Atlus)
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Such a Promising Young Witch
AO3
Story Summary:
When Lilith Clawthorne was thirteen, she had promise. She had potential.
Now, Lilith Clawthorne was thirty, and she was worthless.
Pairings: Platonic Darius x Lilith
Word Count: 4,000
CONTENT WARNINGS: ANXIETY ATTACKS, DISSOCIATION, SELF-HATRED, SUICIDE (SUICIDAL THOUGHTS)
A/N: Story Theme Song: Achilles Come Down (Female Version) by Annapantsu
Be careful, folks. This one is a little heavy.
No one dies or attempts suicide, but Lilith is not having a good time.
~~~
“She’s such a promising young witch.”
Lilith fought back a groan and hunched further over her office desk, a hand coming up to pinch the bridge of her nose as memories interrupted the more productive flow of thought.
“Who?”
“Lilith Clawthorne—that teenager with the dark red hair.”
“The one in the Potions Track?”
“Yeah!”
Her other hand trembled around her pen, sending a wide streak of ink across the page. Through her blurry vision, she could not tell how bad the smear was, but dread settled in her stomach nonetheless. She scrubbed at her eyes.
The Emperor expected—no, deserved perfection.
Her hands were still shaking as she straightened and decided to continue. She wanted to go back and redo the ruined paperwork, but was already running low on time. While she may have been willing to spend as long as necessary on her work, she could not afford to make the Emperor wait for her.
Lilith swallowed. The room was cold. Her head was spinning and her teeth were rattling.
“I bet she’s a shoo-in for the Emperor’s Coven!”
“Well, either her or her sister.”
“Are you kidding? Have you seen how much time Lilith spends studying?”
She had stopped watching the clock a while ago. The numbers were becoming too fuzzy.
“That girl works harder than any other student at Hexside—Edalyn has no idea who she’s up against!”
“Yeah, but we all know Edalyn is stronger. Lilith can study all she wants, but no amount of studying can replace raw power.”
She needed to pull herself together. The Emperor was counting on her. He had seen her for all of her horrible actions—and instead of scorning her, he had offered his hand in support.
“Bring me the Owl Lady, and I will heal the curse with no mention of your involvement. For such a promising young witch as yourself, I doubt it will be an issue.”
Lilith was supposed to capture Eda. She had tried to capture Eda, using the best of her efforts.
And still she failed.
Time and time again, she failed.
She had failed the Emperor.
She had failed herself.
She had failed Eda.
The bells of the clock tower tolled in the distance, ringing softly through her office. She usually found the noise soothing, like a call for sleep. But now it was just another reminder of how much time she was wasting—and how little she was getting done. The noise pounded against her skull and drew a groan from her.
She was twenty-nine years old, and she was even failing at maintaining a proper sleep schedule.
So much for being promising, she thought with a note of bitterness. I think I cursed the wrong witch.
The ink on the page was spreading. Spots of ink were blotting her vision, too.
There was a knock on her office door.
Almost on instinct, Lilith shot to her feet, paying no mind to her chair crashing to the ground behind her. She blinked the dark static out of her vision and gripped the edge of her desk as the room swayed beneath her feet.
Was it the Emperor?
Kikimora?
The Golden Gu—wait, he was dead.
Who in their right mind would still be working—and visiting her office—at such a late hour?
Another knock.
Lilith bit the inside of her cheek, her heartbeat picking up and her grip tightening. Why were they not—
Oh. Right.
“Come in!” she finally called out, her voice like broken glass. Internally, she winced. When was the last time she had spoken? Or drunk water?
I said I would get up for a drink when I finished two more pages of work. That was ten pages ago.
To be fair, water will be a nice reward if—when I am finished.
The door swung open and Lilith stiffened, posture tightening until a bolt of pain shot through her shoulders. She opened her mouth to apologize for her messy office and disheveled appearance, only for her visitor to cut her off.
“Sweet Titan, you should be asleep by now,” Darius scoffed, folding his arms and staring down at her with judgment. “How—actually, why are you still awake?”
Lilith blinked, unsure of how to reply as shame settled over her. Darius rolled his eyes at her lack of response and shut the door behind him, taking a few steps closer and giving her a once-over. He opened his mouth, and Lilith internally braced herself for a scolding.
“Do you even bother to take care of yourself anymore?”
There it was.
She blinked again to clear the blurry sight of his face, digging her nails into her skin as a chill shot down her spine. Darius clicked his tongue, and distantly, Lilith realized she was trembling.
How do I answer that question?
As though sensing her loss for words, Darius lifted his Scroll. There was a bright flash of light before Lilith could react, and then Darius was holding his Scroll out for her to see. It took a few seconds for her to recognize the image as a photograph of herself, and a few more for her breath to catch in her throat.
Titan—she looked awful.
Her skin was bloodless and drained of life, and her eyes were glassy with dark shadows underneath. Her hair was a tangled mess. The edges of her image were blurred slightly, as though even the camera had picked up on her shaking.
Any possible response remained stuck in the back of her throat. Darius nodded as though expecting this reaction, shoving his Scroll back into his pocket. “Being a Coven Head is time consuming, but that’s no excuse for neglecting self-care.” He paused, eyeing her nest of hair. “Or basic hygiene.”
“Easy for you to say,” she grumbled. “You seem to have plenty of spare time on your hands, Coven Head or not.” Her voice carried more of a bitter note than she would have liked, but she did not really care. It was an open secret that Darius and the Golden Guard had a close relationship—even Lilith had noticed. For a while, it had been almost wonderful to watch. Darius gained a lightness that Lilith had not seen since his falling-out with Alador and Odalia.
Then the Golden Guard died.
And everything changed.
“It’s a wonder you’re still standing,” Darius continued as though he had not heard her. “I leave you alone for a few weeks, and this is what you let yourself become?”
A few weeks?
It had been a few years since he had even bothered to have a real conversation with her.
After Hexside, she had found herself losing everyone. Her parents certainly did not care about her—they did not attend her initiation ceremony, or her Coven Head inauguration.
Raine was too close to Eda for Lilith to speak to them without being consumed with guilt. Still, she found that they crossed her mind every time she saw a particularly proficient bard—anyone with enough passion to remind her of the witch who had practically become a second younger sibling. Did they miss her as much as she missed them?
Perry had been one of her favorite study-buddies, but between their respective careers, they were too busy to meet up. Still, she watched his news channel whenever she had the chance.
Odalia and Alador had cut everyone off for reasons she neither knew nor understood. Darius was far more bitter about the situation, but he refused to speak on it. None of them had been invited to the wedding.
Eda and Lilith had not been in the same room for several years. Lilith could not tell whether that choice had been for the best.
But despite everything, she still had Darius by her side. They rose through the ranks together, just like how Lilith had once imagined doing with Eda.
And then Darius stopped talking to her.
She was truly alone.
Lilith had given up her friends, her family, her life—and for what? Her wasted potential?
She had taken a gamble and lost, and now she was forever in the debt of karma.
Failure.
“Sorry…” she forced out. She was not entirely sure why she was apologizing.
“What for?”
Her heart thumped in her chest. The room was spinning slowly. You need to answer. What did you do wrong this time?
“Wasting your time?”
Darius sighed, sending a spike of fear and shame through her body. It was entirely pathetic—how had she even managed to claw her way into becoming a Coven Head?
It should have been Eda.
She was such a promising young witch, but Eda was more than just promising. Eda was powerful.
And I was jealous of her, so I ruined her life.
How long before she managed to disappoint the Emperor, too? How long before he stopped giving her chances, and threw her out of the coven, and—
“Honestly, Lilith,” Darius chided, snapping her back from her thoughts. He crossed his arms. “You need to prioritize yourself more often. Do you think the Emperor wants you wasting away like this?”
He should be disappointed in me.
The words sent another wave of shame through her. She wrapped her arms around her shaking torso. Perhaps if she had been in a normal state of mind, she would have been able to better conceal her reaction.
But as it was, she was exhausted and running on fumes, so she averted her eyes and fought the urge to break down.
The clock ticked.
Darius sighed. He set the forgotten chair upright and guided her to sit down, the gentleness of his hands at odds with the annoyed look on his face. “Wait here,” he instructed before vanishing through the door.
Not entirely sure what was happening, Lilith seized the opportunity of solitude and turned back to the pile of paperwork on her desk. However, she quickly found she could not actually bring herself to work. Her hands were unnaturally heavy, as though there were weights strapped to her limbs. The papers fuzzed so greatly in her vision, she might as well have been reading them underwater—and what little she could make out, she simply could not process. Her teeth were chattering badly, not at all helping matters.
I have to work.
Her eyes burned.
I can’t—
“Am I going to return to an imminent crisis every time I leave you alone?”
Startled, Lilith jerked her head upward. Somehow, Darius had already returned and was towering over her, holding out….
Was that a coven scout mask?
She stared, uncomprehending, until Darius rolled his eyes. “Put the mask on,” he instructed, speaking slowly as though she was stupid. “On the off chance that we run into someone, they’ll think I’m escorting an overworked coven scout back to their quarters. No one will know it’s you.”
Oh. Lilith blinked, trying to wrap her mind around his claim.
“Put the mask on,” she echoed blankly, accepting the cold metal with shaking hands and pressing it to her face. Tired as she was, she was still capable of following a direct order.
Her face tingled slightly as the enchantment adhered the mask to her skin, holding the it in place as Darius lifted her easily into his arms. Lilith yelped in an undignified manner, disoriented by the sudden motion. Her vision briefly spotted out.
She could practically feel Darius rolling his eyes as he carried her out of the room, using a small spell circle to shut off the lights and close the door behind him. “Later, you and I need to have a long discussion,” he said as they made their way through the halls. Lilith suddenly understood why he had insisted she wear a mask, and weak gratitude filled her chest. How oddly…kind of him. “Especially about your complete lack of care toward yourself and your health.”
Yourself and your health.
Lilith frowned slightly behind her mask. Why did that matter?
She had outlived her use. She had once been such a promising young witch.
And now she had failed.
She should have let herself lose, all those years ago.
She wanted Eda here with her.
But it was her own fault that her sister was alone, living in the woods with neither support nor family.
Her self-control slipped and her breath caught slightly, a sharp pain lancing through her chest.
Darius clicked his tongue again. “Titan—you’re so tired, you’re shaking,” he said, his tone filled with disapproval and only loud enough for her to hear. “Lilith, this isn’t healthy.”
I can sleep when I’m worthy of it, she thought but did not say. Her lips were practically glued shut, and Darius already seemed unhappy enough.
Her thoughts were yanked back into her body as Darius stopped short, and Lilith realized that they had somehow already reached her room. She could not understand how he managed to unlock and open her door without placing her down, but the next thing she knew, he was setting her on her bed and locking the door behind him. She bit her lip and let her chin fall into her hands, watching him move through blurred vision.
He still had the key she had once given him.
It should not have surprised her. The key to his room was hidden at the back of her closet, in a box that also contained her Hexside yearbook and old photo album. Despite everything, she just…could not bring herself to get rid of it.
“All right,” Darius muttered to himself as he stepped over to her dresser. “I hope you have clean pajamas to wear.”
Lilith blinked, barely understanding what was happening and wanting nothing more than to fall back onto her bed and sleep—but no, she had more work to do. And she was still shaking—
“Lilith.”
“What?” Her voice was strange, even to her own ears. She might as well have been underwater.
“Your pajamas, Lilith. Do you have a preference?” There was the sound of a drawer opening and closing—wait, when had she closed her eyes? “And take off the mask. You don’t need it anymore.”
Robotically, she lifted a hand to her face and removed the coven scout mask, flinching as it landed on the floor with an audible thud. Her hands fell into her lap and swam before her eyes, mind dull and barely processing her surroundings.
I can’t do this.
Her face was hot. Her throat burned. She could not stop trembling—
“I swear—Lilith, you cannot keep going like this.” Rustling. “You’re going to kill yourself at this rate, and I can’t—”
Darius cut himself off.
Her blood ran cold.
What did I do wrong what did I do wrong what did—
Footsteps hurried as they approached the bed. Lilith became aware of her position—hunched over with her hands now covering her eyes, elbows propped up on her knees. Her hands felt slimy where they touched her face.
“Shit.” Darius spoke unusually softly, his voice filled with concern that Lilith had not heard from anyone in…so long. “What’s wrong?”
The bed dipped slightly as Darius took a seat beside her. His hands were gentle as they pulled her close, warmth all but bleeding through her clothes and somehow making her tremble harder. He let her keep her hands up by her face as she leaned into his chest.
Lilith shrugged loosely, her tongue like lead in her throat.
He shifted her in his grasp, one hand running up and down her back and the other remaining tight around her shoulders. “You’re…” He paused, and Lilith was suddenly struck by dread. “You’re crying.”
What?
Her hands were wet.
She was crying. She was crying in front of someone else, which she had not done since she was a child.
Worse, it was Darius.
Darius, who had once been her best friend.
Who had been the only person by her side as she moved up the ranks of her coven.
Who had laughed with her after her initiation ceremony, and brought her food and water after hard missions.
Who had fallen quickly in love with the Golden Guard, and even more quickly into grief when he was gone.
Who had brushed Lilith off just before everything went wrong, and had stopped answering her calls and messages.
Who now never spoke to her without the clipped tone he used for all the coven heads.
Who, just like her parents, had all but thrown her away.
She wanted to tear herself away and shove him out of the room. She wanted to pull him close and never let him go.
She wanted to fall back asleep and never wake up, because Titan, she could not keep doing this.
Her lungs burned. “I—I c-can’t—I can’t be—”
“Lilith, it’s okay.” His voice was so soft, she wanted to scream.
Lilith could not understand what was happening—why Darius cared, why she was not moving, why her mind was so hazy, why she could not feel her hands or feet or stop fucking shaking—
“I n-n-need to—”
She had to get back to work and be productive and good, or else Belos would—
A gasping sob tore past her lips, and Lilith could no longer hide from the reality of it. She was falling apart like—like a fucking child, and—
I just want to sleep.
I just want to die.
She ducked her head lower, fists moving up to clench in her hair. Darius could not see her face, but he somehow hugged her tighter, hooking his chin over her head. “No. You need to rest, Lilith,” he told her quietly. Solemnly. “You need to eat. You need to—need to stop hurting yourself like this.” His voice was starting to sound just as…wrong as her own. Did she do that?
Maybe that should be her new life philosophy. She needed to stop messing up.
Her head was pounding. Tears stung dry skin as they fell. Lilith just wanted it to stop.
She was supposed to be better than this. The Emperor himself had chosen her.
The Emperor made a mistake.
I just want to be good again.
Breathing was hard. She found herself shaking once more—or had she never stopped?
I can’t do this I can’t do this I can’t do this—
“Lilith, please—” Darius was not supposed to sound so desperate. Lilith could not see his face, or anything else—when had her eyes slipped shut?
Titan, she was so tired.
She could not keep doing this. Not anymore.
I don’t want to live like this.
I have to keep going.
I don’t want to keep going.
She was supposed to be better than this.
I just want to die.
Lilith never knew it was possible to be so exhausted with life—so tired that the thought of waking up in the morning was agony. She never knew what her future had in store for her.
Darius was still talking to her, but Lilith could barely understand what he was saying. Fog clouded her mind and muffled her thoughts. Her breathing still hurt. She did not want to be awake anymore—she just wanted to be away.
How would her younger self view her now? Curled into Darius, crying like an overtired child—they had not been so close in so long.
Briefly, an image flashed in her head—two teenagers hiding in the back corner of the library. They shared so many secrets between those shelves. Darius shared his feelings for Alador, Lilith shared her lack of romantic interest in anyone, and both of them shared their fears and hopes for their futures in their covens. Although they would never admit it to anyone else, they made whispered promises to remain in contact, no matter what happened to the rest of their friends. No matter what their futures held.
And here they were now.
No one else was with them.
They never shared secrets anymore.
A hand on her face snapped her from her stupor and sent a shot of panic down her spine. She had no time to react before Darius pulled away slightly. Lilith blinked through blurry vision, mortified as Darius searched her face, even as tears were still slipping past her lashes.
“Lilith, breathe.”
She tried to listen to him. She tried to catch her breath. He set his hand on her shoulder, one arm still wrapped around her. His expression was dark enough to twist her stomach.
“Listen to me,” he said, quiet and deadly serious. Her teeth chattered and she hugged herself tightly but nodded, biting her lip to stifle her sobs.
It was only when she met his eyes that he continued. “You spent years working for this position. You studied. You trained. And you earned your spot, because the Emperor decided you were worthy.”
No—I got this position because I cursed my own sister.
Even Darius sounded bitter when he spoke, like he was agreeing with her without even knowing.
“But,” he continued, snapping her back to the present. “You…are still just one person.” He paused and cleared his throat, averting his eyes. She fought the urge to rub her own. “You need food, and hygiene, and rest. Taking time for those things isn’t a failure on your part.”
But that wasn’t—
She wasn’t—
He didn’t—
“You don’t get it!” she finally spit out with surprising force. “I—I was s-s-supposed to be better than this—I-I-I’m failing at—at my work, and no matter h-how much time I spend, I’m still just—just—”
I was such a promising young witch.
I had potential.
Now, I am nothing.
I just want to die.
She felt, more than saw, Darius stiffen.
“I…didn’t realize how bad things were,” he said quietly. She was not even sure whether she heard him correctly, but guilt bubbled up inside her nonetheless.
Just another way I fucked up.
The clock ticked on.
Finally, Darius sighed and pulled her back against him. “It’s late, and you’re too tired to understand what I’m saying. You might not even remember this conversation in the morning.”
Screwup.
“Just…get some rest. Please?”
Her head throbbed as cold abomination matter surrounded her, and she was surprised to find the scratchy fabric of her uniform replaced with soft pajamas that she had not worn in…a long time. Warm hands moved her into a reclining position and pulled heavy blankets over her, alleviating the worst of her trembling. Her breathing was heavy but steady, tears slowing as exhaustion took over.
Every sense filled with static, and Lilith realized with distant alarm that she was falling asleep.
But she did not even have the energy to feel ashamed—just a faint pulse of relief.
I can’t do this anymore.
A hand swept the hair away from her forehead, but she was already out.
~~~
Darius let out a heavy sigh as he stepped away, watching Lilith settle into an uneasy sleep. For a moment, he could do nothing more than listen to her heavy breathing soften. Not for the first time, guilt simmered inside him like an open flame.
He and Lilith had been friends. Best friends. They stood by one another as they rose through the ranks.
And then Jasper died.
Darius had never intended to abandon Lilith. But her blind loyalty to Belos put him off, first as he questioned the Emperor and later as the deep chasm of resentment tore open inside him. Lilith continued to obey Belos like a dog trailing after its master, and the idea of someone worshiping that awful man filled him with rage.
It was easier to brush her off. He never actually meant to hurt her.
His intentions did not matter here.
“I just want to die.”
Had she even realized she was talking aloud?
Watching the tears drying on her cheeks, Darius swore to do better. Even if Lilith kneeled before Belos and all but kissed his feet, he would do better. He would be kinder.
Tearing himself away from her bedside, he made his way to the door and threw her one last regretful glance.
“I’m so sorry,” he whispered. “Get some rest, Lilith. Please.”
~~~
A/N: After four months, this is finally complete.
Also—if you are reading this between midnight and six in the morning, take the advice from Darius and go to sleep.
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