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#presocratics
lionofchaeronea · 5 months
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We should not act and speak like ones who sleep. οὐ δεῖ ὥσπερ καθεύδοντας ποιεῖν καὶ λέγειν. -Heraclitus, fr. 73 Diels-Kranz
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lindahall · 11 months
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Anaxagoras of Clazomenae – Scientist of the Day
Anaxagoras of Clazomenae, a Presocratic natural philosopher, lived from about 510 BCE to around 430 BCE, so he was philosophizing about 40 years earlier than Socrates and 80 years before Plato.
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jareckiworld · 2 years
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Hans Erni (1909-2015) — Thales of Miletus  [tempera on paperboard, 1976]
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loneberry · 2 years
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Hylozoism is the philosophical point of view that matter is in some sense alive. Hylozoism refers largely to views such as those of the earliest Greek philosophers (6th and 5th centuries BC), who treated the magnet as alive because of its attractive powers (Thales), or air as divine (Anaximenes), perhaps because of its apparently spontaneous power of movement, or because of its essentiality for life in animals. The theory holds that matter is unified with life or spiritual activity. Thales, Anaximenes, and Heraclitus all taught that there is a form of life in all material objects. It was Thales who maintained that all things are full of gods (daimon).
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recursive-rupture · 1 year
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The point from which I start / Is common; for there shall I return again.
Parmenides of Elea
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tenderloincherub · 1 year
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W. K. C. Guthrie, A History of Greek Philosophy I The earlier Presocratics and the Pythagoreans
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artwithevieandmaya · 1 year
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To God all things are fair and good and right, but men hold somethings right and wrong.
Heraclitus Of Ephesus, Fragment 102.
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Heráclito Johannes Moreelse
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Herodotus the Presocratic
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Scarlett Kingsley on Herodotus the Presocratic
  24 Νοε 2022
In this talk from the 2022-23 edition of the Herodotus Helpline, Professor Scarlett Kingsley (Agnes Scott) focuses upon the trope found in Herodotus' Histories of surpassing 'physis' to ensure victory. Professor Kingsley argues that this emphasis on transhumanism, or transcending human nature, situates Herodotus within Presocratic intellectual culture, and that Herodotus poses a challenge to those attempting to view Greek 'physis' as made of sterner stuff.
Source; the youtube channel of Herodotus Helpline ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv6xlht3_nU).
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tonreihe · 1 year
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John Sallis, The Figure of Nature: On Greek Origins
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lionofchaeronea · 6 months
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For humans to get all they wish would not be for the better. ἀνθρώποις γίνεσθαι ὁκόσα θέλουσιν οὐκ ἄμεινον. -Heraclitus, fr. 110
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psychreviews2 · 1 month
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The Presocratics: Diogenes of Apollonia
Diogenes of Apollonia
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Diogenes was located by researchers to be living in the Thracian town of Apollonia in modern day Sozopol in Bulgaria. The town was started by Milesians, leading to conclusions that Diogenes was influenced by the Ionian school of pre-Socratics. In a way, he was an apotheosis of the pre-Socratics, where there was a need to harmonize the prior systems into one system in the 5th century BC. "In my opinion, a person beginning any discourse must present a starting point that is indisputable, and an explanation that is simple and serious." His influences in particular would include Anaximenes, Heraclitus, Anaxagoras, and Leucippus.
Similar to Heraclitus, Diogenes wanted a single substance where all other substances could be derived from, and instead of Fire, he followed Anaximenes with Air as the origin of all things. "In my opinion, to sum it all up, all things that are, are differentiated from the same thing and are the same thing...If any [indivisible elements] were different from another, being different in its own nature, and if it were not the case that being the same thing it changed and was differentiated in many ways, they could not mix with each other in any way, nor could help or harm come to one from another, nor could a plant grow from the earth, nor an animal or anything else come to be, unless they were so constituted as to be the same thing. But all these things, being differentiated out of the same thing, come to be different things at different times and return into the same thing."
By adding intelligence to air, like Anaxagoras's Nous, or Heraclitus's Logos, he could simplify things and put it all into one. Intelligence for Diogenes was evidenced in the usefulness of the seasons, weather, and cycles of day and night. That regularity and dependability of nature for life gave ancient people an appreciation of natural intelligence, even if things weren't perfectly dependable. Instead of intelligence correlating to how much Nous collected in structures, Diogenes preferred cold for the inanimate and warmth for the animate in nature. This allowed for changes in perception while keeping the same substance. "For without intelligence it could not be distributed in such a way as to have the measures of all things—winter and summer, night and day, rains and winds and good weather...As they are arranged, they are as good as possible...Humans and animals live by means of air through breathing. And this (air) is both soul and intelligence for them, and if this departs, they die and their intelligence fails...In my opinion, that which possesses intelligence is what people call air, and all humans are governed by it and it rules all things. This very thing is god, and it reaches everything and arranges all things and is in everything. There is no single thing which does not share in this, but no single thing shares in it in the same way as anything else, but there are many forms both of air itself and of intelligence. For it is multiform—hotter and cold, drier and wetter, more stable and possessing a sharper movement, and unlimitedly many other alterations are in it, both of flavor and of color."
Diogenes was very interested in anatomy. It was said that his book On Nature had "an accurate anatomy of the veins." Because air was associated with breathing, lungs, blood and veins, body temperature was a sign of intelligence, but the highest intelligence need not be exemplified by the sun. "All sensation is caused by air, air from the outside meeting and mixing with, or simply agitating, air in the sense-organ itself or in the brain, whither it is led by blood-channels from the sense organ. Clarity of perception depends on the fineness of the air in the body and the fineness and directness of the blood-channel by which the air is conveyed. Apparently the air is mixed with blood on its journeys through the head; when air naturally permeates the blood throughout the body, pleasure is produced. Thinking depends on pure, dry air; it is not clear from exactly where or how this functions, but Simplicius tells us that air mixed with blood and pervading the body through the blood-channels produces thought (being distinguished from pleasure, presumably by its purity, dryness and warmth). One may compare Anaxagoras' Mind, which was 'purest and finest of all substances' and Heraclitus' soul-fire; in Diogenes, as in Heraclitus, moisture (again) quenches or inhibits intelligence. Differences of intelligence and of animation are explained partly by differences of surrounding air (that near the ground is moist and heavy, therefore plants have a very low degree of life), partly by differences of bodily structure (birds cannot properly assimilate their pure surrounding air)."
Cosmology for Diogenes derived from prior philosophers. It was "dependent on Anaxagoras (for the idea of the noetic substance starting a vortex) and on the Milesian tradition (the dense coalescing at the centre to form earth, the rarer material going to the extremity, by like-to-like and differentiation)...Air is the element. There are unlimited worlds and unlimited void. The air by being condensed and rarefied is generative of the worlds. Nothing comes to be from or perishes into what is not. The earth is round and is supported in the center (of the cosmos) and has undergone its process of formation through the rotation resulting from the hot and the solidification caused by the cold." In a way, pre-Socratics could observe snow and ice melting into water and also see water evaporate into a mist. Those temperature reactions gave a clue about chemistry and showed that the one "element" could become solid, melt, or turn into a gas, so one didn't need more elements to combine, but just an extrapolation could be an example that could explain everything. For example an observation of lava solidifying into rock, while also releasing gases when extremely hot, would make an impression on the ancients.
Sooner or later, an ethical conundrum appears with these pre-Socratics, which is usually concerned with well-being. "Pleasure and pain arise in the following manner: pleasure whenever a large amount of air is mixed with the blood and makes it light, being in accordance with its nature and penetrating the whole body, and pain whenever the air is contrary to its nature and is not mixed, and the blood coagulates and becomes weaker and denser. Thought, as was said, is due to air that is pure and dry. For moisture hinders the mind. For this reason thought is diminished when we are asleep, drunk, or full...This is why children are foolish...They are also prone to anger and in general easily roused and changeable because air, which is great in quantity, is separated by small intervals. This is also the cause of forgetfulness: when the air does not go through the entire body, people cannot comprehend."
Like any debate in naturalistic philosophy, there may not seem to be much of a danger in getting things wrong. Even if the galaxies are ordered differently than a theory lays out, one still has to get on with life and try to survive along with others just the same. The problem of well-being is that one cannot ignore what is wrong for too long without painful consequences. Arguments could get out of hand due to the sheer ignorance of the times, but one knows right away if one is feeling better or worse. Arguments could also be more or less persuasive depending on the information being revealed as well as the information left out. Diogenes' need to systemize past philosophers led naturally to debates on how to prioritize ideas and how to expose contradictions and weaknesses in arguments.
An Opening for Sophistry
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In the later half of the 5th century BC, Athenians experienced a defeat at the hands of the Spartans, and like any big cultural changes in life, they were exposed to a different point of view. Sophists sprung up around this time and advocated a more relativist point of view and saw how leaders shaped speech to make contrary values seem appealing. Even the pre-Socratics were stuck in theory, and depending on how persuasive, or how lazy an audience might be, any theories will naturally have gaps in evidence that people are willing to accept without question. When a theory is accepted widely, it stays accepted until human endeavor finds an obstacle that exposes a contradiction. Some theories last for centuries before empiricism can catch up.
Speaking well was seen as important for public speaking in front of assemblies or law courts. Even today, a good lawyer has to be able to present a weak case to the best of his or her ability. The sophist Protagoras once advised to "make the weaker argument (logos) the stronger." He also understood the power of culture, values, and preferences. "A human being is the measure of all things—of things that are, that they are, and of the things that are not, that they are not...There are two opposing arguments (logoi) concerning everything." There was of course an importance for education and practice. Without memorization, one could not recall important arguments and points fast enough for a rejoinder. "Education is not implanted in the soul unless one reaches a greater depth." Of course, the problem with depth is that the universe and its complexity contains endless depth, hence for the need to have endless clarification.
Gorgias made a famous case against mathematics and abstraction in a long argument that looks like a mixture of Eleatic philosophy, Nagarjuna's formless exercises, and the scene in the movie The Shining, "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." By the end he simply proves that abstraction is at best a pointer to what is sensed, but any gaps in the logos provide observation an opportunity to discover sensorial detail that may prove the logos wrong. He also found that emotions could manipulate audiences to favor one argument over another. "Gorgias said that one should destroy the seriousness of one's opponent with laughter, and his laughter with seriousness."
Mindfulness: Nirvana: https://rumble.com/v1grcgx-mindfulness-nirvana.html
Antiphon also defined different kinds of laws. There are those laws of nature that can't be negotiated with and then those with humans that are negotiated. Laws then could be altered based on well-being and values, which people do not agree upon and constantly war over. "[Bad laws] permit people to suffer more pain when less is possible and to have less pleasure when more is possible, and to receive injury when it is not necessary." These are the reasons why obedience or rebelliousness could be either good or bad depending on their justifications and the quality of the laws being judged as fair or unfair. This isn't to say that nature by itself is better than man made laws in every situation. Sometimes it's the opposite. Critias argued that "there was a time when human life was without order, on the level of beasts, and subject to force; when there was no reward for the good or punishment for the bad."
The complexity in the senses and the logic trying to understand reality led to so many debates that it became a form of entertainment, but the ethical problem of getting things wrong bothered Socrates who popularized a cross-examining, questioning style, to use an algorithmic will-power to reach a more lasting answer to difficult questions. This is the beginning of the Socratic period.
The Presocratic Philosophers - Kirk & Raven: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9780521274555/
A Presocratic Reader - Richard McKirahan: https://www.isbns.net/isbn/9781603843058/
Philosophy: http://psychreviews.org/category/philosophy03/
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nicolae · 7 months
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Presocratics - Milesian physics (1)
Thales In the first period, the Hellenic period which ended with the death of Alexander (323 BC), philosophy developed in Greek countries and successively in various centers: this succession corresponds to political vicissitudes. It was born in the 6th century in the Ionian country, in the maritime cities that were then very rich and trading. From 546, Greece was subjugated by the Persians, and…
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psycheapuleius · 2 years
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τοῦ λόγου δὲ ἐόντος ξυνοῦ ζώουσιν οἱ πολλοί
ὡς ἰδίαν ἔχοντες φρόνησιν
[Though wisdom (logos) is universal, the many live as if they have insight of their own]
— Heraclitus I. p. 77. Fr. 2.
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recursive-rupture · 1 year
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Alas! Poor wretched race of mortal creatures! / What discord and grief have given you birth!
Empedocles of Acragas
{pictured: from Three Studies for Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion (second version), by Francis Bacon}
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