#quentin deserved better

[andsomemaniacgotridofthewheel]

Our Flag Means Death vs. The Magicians

I was not sure whether I should even write something, but the closer the season 2 finale and, hopefully, a 3rd season of OFMD comes, the more nervous I get. So it's gotta come out.

Thing is, I trust David Jenkins. Or, more accurately, I want to trust David Jenkins.

But 4 years and *checks watch* 6 months ago I also trusted the showrunners of "The Magicians".

Because they, too, responded thoughtful and kindly on Twitter to their fandom's worries. They assured us they were aware of how important queer representation was, and that they would handle their show's queer pairing of two main (!) characters with the utmost respect and sensitivity. They said they knew how badly queer people were treated on the media and they did not want to do that in their show. They had done their research, they carefully listened to their fans, and they were different.

A lot of fans were NOT convinced by that and maintained that it would still turn out to be queerbaiting. We others, we trusted. They obviously knew what they were doing!

For those of you who were not around here back then or simply not in the fandom, and who have no idea what I am talking about, let me try to summarise the shitshow what happened.

"The Magicians" was a very original, weird, entertaining and, for 3 seasons and 12 episodes, good urban fantasy show about a group of young, well, magicians. It was based on a book series of the same name by Lev Grossmann.

The main character, Quentin, was canonically struggling with clinical depression. At the beginning of the show he had admitted himself to a mental health clinic, and he was on medication, and his illness was treated as a part of his character throughout the show. And they received a lot of praise for their sensitive, realistic representation of people with depression and their continuing struggle.

Around Quentin there was an ensemble of other main characters. His (male) best friend (Eliot) was gay and played by a gay actor.

Season 1 ended with a drunken decision from Quentin, Eliot and Eliot's (female) best friend (Margot) to have a threesome; which basically ended Quentin's het-relationship (with Alice) that had developed during the season. This was the first indication that the depressed main character Quentin might also be bisexual.

In season 3 there came a mind-blowing episode where Quentin & Eliot spend the entire rest of their lives living together in a cabin in the woods and raising a son, in what turned out to be an alternative timeline. Basically, in order to solve a plot-arc relevant puzzle, they move to the cabin where the puzzle was set, not knowing how long it would take. After a few months together Quentin initiates an affair with Eliot. A little bit later a woman, with whom Quentin then has a child, moves in; a couple of years later she dies, Quentin & Eliot raise the kid together, and when Eliot, the older one, finally dies of old age, leaving Quentin alone behind, the puzzle named "The Beauty of all Life" is finally solved, the timeline reset, and young Quentin & Eliot in the past receive the solution of the puzzle together with the memories of their life together in the other timeline.

It was a beautiful, beautiful episode. Heartbreaking and life-affirming and queer and just wonderful. It also established beyond a doubt that the depressed main character Quentin was definitely bisexual (and polyamorous).

Then, for the whole 4th season, Eliot was separated from the rest of the group and in great danger, while Quentin and the others tried to find and save him. And when Eliot had to do some soul searching, he remembered something the audience never saw from that one season 3 episode, they added a brand new scene: after they both had been stunned into silence by having the memories of a whole other life dropped onto them, just where the original episode had ended, Quentin had actually asked Eliot if they should "just try it", because "who gets proof of concept like that"? And Eliot, scared of the gravity of it and full of abandonment issues, had shot him down. Present Eliot decides then, if he ever sees Quentin again, to stop being scared and just go for a relationship with him.

(On the other side of the plot, Quentin gets more and more desperate and frantic, trying to find Eliot and save his life. He is clearly masking a steadily worsening spiral into a severe mental health crisis.)

It's queerbaiting, said the nay-sayers and skeptics. It will never happen. At the end of season 4, Quentin will get back together with his ex-girlfriend Alice, they're End Game, and Eliot will end up dead alone at the sidelines, undergoing character development through loss, as a gay character should. /s

They thought we were naive, but we thought they weren't paying attention. Two (2!) episodes in two (2!) seasons with the sole purpose to set Queliot up as a couple, in canon. This wasn't subtext, it wasn't queer-coding; it was text, it was spoken aloud, it was named, it was shown. Why would they do that if nothing else would come of it? Also, they had promised us. The gay actor who played Eliot repeatedly stated how proud he was to be on a show where this was happening, he was just as excited as us, he was one of us.

Then the season 4 finale came, and it wasn't exactly queerbait.

It was much, much worse.

I was on Tumblr right after the finale aired, and it was eerie. No episode reactions, no gif-sets, no comments or shitposts or anything. Even the nay-sayers and skeptics couldn't bring themselves to utter the well-deserved "told you so"s to break the stunned silence. All that was missing from the scene were actual tumbleweeds blowing across our dashboards.

Even from the actors of the show who were on twitter, usually very active and involved, came only radio silence. The last tweet for a while came the day before the finale aired. It was a tweet from the POC actor of an unrelated character, who had spend the last season supporting queer fans and assuaging our fears that something bad might happen to Queliot. And this tweet from him simply stated that he had just found out he had filmed a fake finale scene, one that was never intended to be aired, and that it had served its purpose: he had no idea how the season would actually end.*

And here is how it did end: with the clinically depressed and queer main character blowing himself up in order to permanently ban that season's big bad. He had saved Eliot before that, but he didn't get a chance to talk to him, instead he did get a final scene straight out of the suicidal ideation fantasy handbook: after he killed himself, he witnessed his friends, unseen by them, grieving for him and acknowledging how his sacrifice had made all of their lives better in various ways. And no, I'm not making this up.

And it wasn't even the end of the showrunners stupidity, because in an utter display of tone-deafness, they were taking to Twitter celebrating themselves for the progressive (!!!) decision to kill off their White Male Main Character™, to focus more on the POC characters in the show. And, of course, the recently introduced cis-het male white dudebro character, who had started as a guest but somehow kept getting more and more screentime lately.

They had pulled a Bury Your Gays, but With A Vengeance. In only 10 minutes of screentime they had completely destroyed everything that had made their show critically acclaimed, retroactively un-deserving all the praise and recognition they had gotten for good representation of mental illness and the courage to introduce a canon queer relationship between their established main characters.

And they didn't even get it. They honestly expected praise for their "woke" decision to kill of their White Male Main Character™ (they kept repeating it like a mantra), and they reacted like children when they were instead confronted with an epic shitstorm from upset and angry queer and mentally ill fans.**

In hindsight we realised that what had fooled us was them just parroting the right words and phrases back at us. They had no idea what queerbaiting was. They had even less of an idea what a Bury Your Gays was. They didn't know what we meant when we said that queer representation was so important, and that we were worried if they would do it right; and they didn't understand that they themselves were lying when they answered that they would handle the queer representation in their show with care and respect, because they didn't understand what care and respect in relation to queer representation even was. They didn't even realise that his depression alone, and even more so combined with his absolute lack of toxic masculinity, separated Quentin from the usual White Male Main Character Trope they somehow so desperately wanted to fight - and for some reason they didn't even seem to have realised that they (accidentally?) written him as bisexual? (I am still not too clear on how that even could happen.)

And that's where my worry for "Our Flag Means Death" and David Jenkins comes in. Yes, he was publicly flabbergasted when he learned about queerbaiting and how deeply it had traumatized queer fans and destroyed our trust. He publicly noticed, he publicly cared.

But does he really understand?

Even if he knows and understands queerbaiting (now), does he also know what a Bury Your Gays is? Does he understand?

The historical Edward "Blackbeard" Teach died November 1718. The historical Stede "Gentlemen Pirate" Bonnet died a month later, December 1718. That's at the very most less than a year from when our favourite gay pirate couple is now. And yes, David Jenkins makes it a point to screw with history, he does what he wants no matter what. But their death dates are pretty huge. A fixed point in time, if you will.

I want to believe that all the faking of deaths talk is indeed foreshadowing, that they will be officially dead to history, but actually have run off together to open Jeff's Inn by the Sea, with a Bar & Grill and Other Delicacies & Delights, Snake Snackery, Gift Shop and Fishing Gear in the back. That we will get our Happy Ending. That they will get their Happy Ending. No Bury Your Gays. Everyone lives, just this once, everyone lives.

But what if it is a red herring instead of foreshadowing? What if it is supposed to make their eventual deaths even more heartbreaking and tragic? WHAT IF DAVID JENKINS DOESN'T ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT BURY YOUR GAYS? What if he says he does, what if he believes he does, but what if he doesn't actually understand?

What if he just says what he believes we want to hear, without really understanding the reason?

For me personally, that's not even the worst of it.

When "The Magicians" season 4 aired, I had just gone through the worst depressive episode of my life. It was actually the reason I hyper-fixated so strongly on the show and why I had repeatedly binge-watched the first three seasons in a span of only 3 weeks. It was the reason I obsessed over Quentin, the character who was in a place that I was in just months before, I place I had lost and felt I would never reach again, a place that gradually and painfully I did reach again by the end of those weeks. When I had caught up with season 4 and the finale aired, I was actually a lot better. But even then, Quentin's death and the way he died hurt me, confused me, triggered me, set me back. Talking to other fans with the same problems helped. Removing myself from the fandom and not looking at anything Magician's-related for near-on two years helped also.

And I was in luck. Only one month later "Good Omens" was released. I had liked the book, I had looked forward to its adaption, but I was completely unprepared for what Neil Gaiman had done with it. It healed me, it fully filled the void "The Magicians" and Queliot had left inside me, and it made everything better.

In "Our Flag Means Death", Stede is clearly on the autism spectrum. I was bullied at school, just like him, not for being queer, but for "being a fucking weirdo". Because I have ADHD, like Ed. Unlike Ed I don't have the hyperactive kind, but the inattentive kind. I can never tell if someone is sarcastic or sincere. I also have difficulty with and anxiety in social situations, and I have almost never felt accepted by my peers or my family. I am permanently masking. I relate deeply to Stede's belief that he has to change in order to be worthy of love. I also related deeply to Ed's mental health spiral and suicidal ideation in the beginning of season 2. I obsessed for days over the moment when Ed decided to finally let go, only to be saved in the very last moment by love. It felt way too real, way too familiar, and it was so important for me and my state of mind that it ended in hope. They managed to take the trauma and make it cathartic. So even if my genderfluid ass didn't relate better to mlm relationships than to any cishet relationship, relating a whole lot to Stede and only a little less to Ed because of their neurodivergent traits will be enough for their deaths to destroy me. Just like Quentin's death almost had. And I don't even know if there will be a "Good Omens 3" to stop my fall only a month later.

*= with the exception of the actor leaving the show, none of the actors on "The Magicians" knew. They had all been given fake scenes to film. They didn't even know their colleague was leaving them until the day the finale aired.

**= when I had finally distanced myself enough from the show emotionally and wondered if I should maybe watch season 5, it was included in my Prime subscription anyway, I was told not to, because a) apparently the showrunners had written it as a giant FUCK YOU to everyone who was upset by the season 4 finale, and b) because they had done all the characters dirty, but especially fan-favourite (and mine) Eliot, apparently he fared even worse in season 5 than in season 4. But I am glad to be able to at least inform you that season 5 pretty much tanked both critically as well as in viewership, I have never seen a show go from successful and popular to irrelevant and hated so quickly and so completely.

#quentin coldwater deserved better #the magicians #david jenkins #our flag means death #queliot #gentlebeard #edward teach #stede bonnet #quentin coldwater #eliot waugh #ofmd #bury your gays #queerbait #queer representation #cw: depression #cw: suicide #good omens #neil gaiman #nikku.txt #nikku #blackbonnet #quentin coldwater x eliot waugh #eliot waugh x quentin coldwater #ofmd blackbeard #stedeward #ed teach #blackbeard #ed x stede #stede x ed

[wolfnprey]

How much do I have to steal donate for Jason Ralph and Hale Appleman to reunite and give the proper Queliot ending that the show, characters, and fans deserved?

#I am late to this fandom #but I have been broken by it regardless #Quentin and Eliot deserved better #the magicians #quentin coldwater #eliot waugh #I grieve #and will not forgive or forget #jason ralph #hale appleman #Queliot

[outismm]

When I say I’d defend TSSM Otto in a court of law, I’m 1000% serious. I’ll rent a little suit and everything don’t even test me

#YOUR HONOR HES INNOCENT!!! THE BITCH HAD IT COMING!!!!!! #MNFDSAMNDMWAND #THIS GOES FOR THE WHOLE SIX ACTUALLY #AND ALL OTTOS #IDC IDC IDC WHAT THEIR CRIMES ARE #I'LL GET UP THERE IN MY CHEAP LITTLE SUIT AND FILIBUSTER LIKE THIS IS MISTER SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON IDC #thats a lie actually their lawyer is Quentin in the worst disguise humanly possible #but I WILL sit in the gallery and cheer MSNDSM. #if this is nonsensical its bc its 4 am here <3 MSNDMSN #otto octavius #tssm #abuse mention #tssm otto #hes so important to me #UGHGHGHUEGH i've been rewatching his eps #bc. his voice is literally so healing. fixes all my woes I cant stop smiling when I hear him. exactly what I needed tonight. #AND THIS STRUCK ME </3 #otto baby you deserve so much better #I need to hold him like a freshly baked bun #I also need to suck his soul out but thats irrelevant #MDNSAMND #me watching from the street as otto throws norman like a fastball out the Oscorp Window : WOOOOOO!!!! GO BABY GO!!!!!!!!!! #I also love the. evolution. its always so fun. #breedED to breedING what an icon. his vibes during gangland make my brain go inside out #ANYWAYS THERES TOO MUCH FRUCTOSE IN THESE BONES. UM. GOODBYE #I. may need to make an otto sideblog. who knows. #maybe ill keep it all here and force y'all to Witness SMNDMSANDWMANDA #ANYWAYS UM. UMMMMMMMMMMM...... <3 goodbye #expect more ottoposting in the near future MSDMS

[mlobsters]

the magicians s1e4, the world within the walls

Dean Fogg: Oh, and Quentin... I'm glad that you're still here with us.

Quentin: Me too, actually.

#the magicians #quentin coldwater #dean fogg #jason ralph #rick worthy #quentin coldwater deserved better #depression

[vooruitmariek]

had enough of heartbreak and pain

#mariek-artblog #the magicians #the magicians fanart #quentin coldwater #quentin coldwater deserved better #hello sunshine by bruce springsteen #jpeg version because tho i do like making gifs out of litterally anything for no real reason #i guess they might be annoying for most people :')

[laurelwinchester]

Okay but since you started, to continue ar*row posting into 2024, it was blatantly obvious Quentin resented Laurel for being the one that lived when they all thought Sara died, and people still thought he was a good dad??? The whole Lance family was so fucked up and Laurel deserved a better family

oh yeah 100% both quentin and dinah thought the wrong daughter died on that boat. there is no doubt about it. they resented laurel for being alive instead of sara. they did not hide their favoritism well. with dinah, she was open about it. with quentin, it only came out in waves, usually when he was drunk but even when he was sober it still sometimes seeped out of him in these little hissed remarks.

it's one of the reasons thinking about laurel's childhood fascinates me so much. at a glance, the lance family was a normal middle class family. two beautiful, smart girls, a home, two parents with well respected careers and a loving marriage. a happy family.

but i have to wonder if it was really all that happy for laurel.

i mean. she dated oliver for years. devoted herself to him. adored him. she took him back when he made mistakes, she wanted to move in with him, she wanted to marry him, she loved him with everything the whole way through. and he treated her like trash. he cheated on her over and over and over again with her friends and her sister. he had zero respect for her. he was stupid and he was nasty and he was cruel. and it's not like the island changed him when it came to her. i'm sorry but it didn't. he was an arrow in her lung from the day she met him until the day she died. and she just. accepted that. she accepted that was all she would get and lived with it until the end. that was as far as she got in terms of believing in her own worth.

that kind of chronic, damaging low self esteem doesn't come from nowhere. laurel's canonical desperation and pleading and searching for love was one of her most devastating traits (partly because she was never able to find it) and it's something that can only come from the lack of love. and that shit starts at the top. it starts with mom and dad. they poisoned her. bit by bit until she was dead, gone, and replaced, quite literally, by a doppelganger.

no, i'll never understand why people love "papa lance." he was only a loving father to one daughter. he was an abuser to the other.

that's one of the reasons why one of the recurring characters in my laurel fics is her non canon grandmother. she needs at least one family member to love her completely and unconditionally. lord knows no one else did.

#quentin and dinah were failures as parents is the bottom line #and that's the nicest way i can put it #laurel deserved better right from the beginning #laurel lance #anti quentin lance #anti dinah drake lance #arrow discourse #asks #anon

[asteralien]

rip quentin coldwater you would have loved "shake it off (taylor's version)"

#this is a joke bc he isn't dead he's alive and well and disgustingly domestic these days :) #i just started thinking about quentin coldwater again today and then found out 1989 tv was today too #feels fated tbh #i just miss that depressed little bisexual. he deserved so much better #quentin coldwater #mythtakes

[morenkor]

random thought: if they had a gun in the mirror realm, we wouldn't have lost Quentin

#the magicians #listen a margo hanson #the magicians 4 season #quentin deserves better

[sadlittlenerdking]

It will forever gut me that Quentin’s last year was haunted by the mirage of what could have been and the knowledge (belief) that he’d found happiness and would never achieve it again.

#the magicians #I just think about how he went from thinking he’d die young to wanting to be a father #he went from knowing he’d die young to having a reason to grow old #and his last year alive was fighting for that possibility #of getting Eliot back and convincing him that he was what he’d choose and getting that life again #and knowing the memories of their time in the mosaic weren’t very strong #it’s like he had to constantly fight a mirage of happiness while everything he wanted fall apart around him #Quentin Coldwater deserved better

[heymalibae]

still screaming over the fact that the magicians thought it was okay to kill off quentin to make him a hero just because ‘oh, the white male main character can’t always be safe,’ okay yes that’s true but you’ve totally forgotten all of the context you’ve woven into q’s characterisation, because the concept of him dying is something he’s struggled with his whole life, that he spends his whole life wanting not to be alive anymore and then even when he has magic it doesn’t change that, and then even worse he thinks the only worthy sacrifice he can make is to give his life to be a hero, like he doesn’t have anything else to give,,, NO, actually, the whole thing that you’ve spent four seasons learning is that q can love and be loved, you can’t just destroy that to make some surface level message.

and they make q say it himself, ‘did i make a sacrifice to save my friends or did i finally find a way to kill myself,’ because he could have chosen differently! that wasn’t the only option! if alice and penny had time to run, to travel out of there, then SO DID Q, but he chooses to hesitate, and it’s the culmination of all the months of shit he’s been through with the monster, and the exhaustion of it, and i GET it, i do, but if he’s killing himself they don’t get to write it off like it’s a noble and unavoidable sacrifice, and also he shouldn’t HAVE TO kill himself to make the point anyway!!! it would have been far, far more radical a statement to say - look. look at this. here is someone who is depressed but lives anyway, and lives anyway, in spite of all the shit life has thrown at them, because they’re worth that, they’re worth the effort it takes to keep them alive, and they deserve better

god i’m so furious that they couldn’t give us that, they couldn’t give us a depressed character who lives a good, fulfilling life. like okay sure they gave us the mosaic but the subtext there is always that it’s outside of reality, it’s not a world in which they study or work or live like we all live on earth. like. is that too much to ask for, that you could show us that even though q is sad he is still loved and that is ENOUGH, that’s worth him staying alive for, that depression doesn’t have to take everything from someone, that there is another choice, because THAT’S what we wanted to see

#the magicians #quentin coldwater #tw suicide #depression #it’s been years but i’m still not over it #quentin coldwater deserved better #i got a couple episodes into season 5 but just couldn’t stick it without q

[thequeenofsastiel]

Just finished ep 8, and I can hardly begin to express how disappointed in You I am. They took an extremely complex character who doesn't fit neatly into any kind of psychological box, and gave him the Hollywood DID treatment. I thought perhaps we'd finally realized that demonizing people with DID and acting like their other selves are vicious killers increases stigmatization of those with that disorder and that it's not okay. It's lazy, harmful writing. People with DID deserve better.

#though I don't know what I expected from the woman who thought that killing off a mentally ill #and queer character #was somehow groundbreaking because he also happened to be a white man #and then made the appalling choice of having him watch his own funeral #something people with suicidal ideation fantasize about a lot #it was despicable #Quentin coldwater deserved better #forever bitter #you #you Netflix #you spoilers #tw mental illness #for anyone who doesn't know #did stands for #dissociative identity disorder #aka #multiple personality disorder

[andsomemaniacgotridofthewheel]

Yeah the "I really really hope David Jenkins isn't just pulling the same crap than the showrunners of The Magicians did back then"-post I wrote yesterday made me go through my the magicians tag just now.

It doesn't hurt that bad anymore. But it still makes me sad. And, surprisingly, still angry!

David Jenkins, I hope you are different. I choose to believe in you, like I chose to believe in them five years ago. Please don't make me the same idiot who has just been fooled twice. Please don't let us down!

#the magicians #quentin coldwater deserved better #david jenkins #our flag means death #ofmd #queliot #gentlebeard #nikku #nikku.txt

[ii-magician]

I rewatched 3x05 A Day in The Life and then 4x05 Escape from the Happy Place back to back and I am unwell

#the magicians #Quentin coldwater #elliot waugh #quelliot #they deserved so much better #I will never forgive Sarah gamble for that shit #anyways now I’m watching 4x10 All That Hard Glossy Armor #is it comforting? no not resllg but it is fun and I do love all the songs #tbh this is my favorite musical episode I just love Don’t get me wrong Elliot version #I will forever mourn quelliot

[lunaraindrop]

cactus & jasmine for the ask game! 🌵

Woo-hoo! Thank you so much for asking! 😊

Cactus: Something I am currently learning (about): Ever since I was a little girl, I have wanted to and have tried to learn sign language, particularly ASL. I thought it was cool, and I wanted to learn to talk to HoH/Deaf people. There was never any classes or opportunities inside school for me to learn (which still pisses me off), so I would check out library books every once in a while and try to learn that way. When I was older, I would look signs up on YouTube and mirror what I saw. This helped me more, to see signs in action.

When I first started to learn about education, I found out that teaching sign language in early childhood was such an amazing tool to give infants, toddlers, and nonverbal children.

In an ironic twist of fate, my mother gets more HoH every year. Her bosses at work have offered to pay for her to have hearing aids...but she is too vain. Because of this, I find myself talking with my hands and facial expressions more around her, and explaining to wait staff and retail workers that she has trouble hearing (you know, when she goes off on them because she thinks they said something they did not, or she is rude because she doesn't think they answered her questions, but that is another story). I feel like my mother would have had an easier time losing her hearing if learning sign language was seen as fundamental as learning English.

Because of these things, I have added ASL in little bite sized bits to my preschool curriculum. Things like learning the ABC's and a word or two a week like "turkey" and "pumpkin" around Halloween and Thanksgiving. The principal of the school *really* loved the idea. I even contacted the local university's Communications Disorders department for collaboration and advice.

TL;DR I'm learning ASL.

Jasmine: Oh dear. When I read this, a book or movie did not come to mind. My mind jumped automatically to the end of Season 4 and all of Season 5 of The Magicians. Because fuck you Sara Gamble, I don't need that shit. But, well, if you folks know me as well as I think you do, you could probably have guess that answers by how much I still scream that, ahem, *clears throat*

QUENTIN COLDWATER DESERVES BETTER

and

I REJECT YOUR CANON, Q IS NOT DEAD

So, instead, I will reach deeper and tell you about yet another show I stopped watching.

Grey's Anatomy.

Once upon a time, I used to watch that show. I found it clever and funny at times. I like clever and funny medical dramas. It is one of the reasons I like House MD. (Another is my undying love of anything Robert Sean Leonard, but I digress). My favorite character on GA was George O'Malley. Spoiler Alert, they killed off George. I stopped watching after that. I would hear from friends how the later seasons were so *gooood* because they would make them cry so much, and I was like, no. I'm depressed enough. I don't need a show to make cry. I need books/movies/tv to make me feel *hope* and *joy* and *wonder*. Sure, sadness will come, but I can't handle that being the focus.

(I know you are thinking of Eddie Munson right now, but I don't think he's dead either, so hah. He and Q are safe with me, thank you very much)

So...yeah. That was a lot. I hope I didn't scare you away! Feel free to ask me things!

#luna says #wtf luna #sign language #asl #the magicians #peaches and plums motherfucker #i am quentin coldwater #quentin coldwater #eddie munson #stranger things #quentin coldwater deserved better #preschool teacher #lunaraindrop #please ask me things #deaf and hoh #house md #robert sean leonard

[mlobsters]

The Magicians season 4 finale in 2019 had the main character Quentin Coldwater (played by Jason Ralph) "sacrifice" himself when he canonically struggled with depression and suicidal ideation, using harmful imagery and messaging around the "sacrifice", all to deal with an actor leaving. The showrunners John McNamara and Sera Gamble lied about why they had killed off the character and later said it was definitely not suicide when McNamara literally said in interviews they left it "ambiguous".

John McNamara speaking at the 2019 SDCC panel, after season 4 has aired (around 19min in the below video):

This is not a morbid thought, I promise you. It'll sound morbid, but it's not. We all have one thing in common in this room, right now, all of us. Every single one of us. At the end of this hour, we are all going to be one hour closer to death.

Every step of the way was wildly thoughtless, irresponsible and hurtful. So many people connected with Quentin because of his history with depression and suicidal ideation. This is why I can't let it go. I hope JM got someone else to talk to about this instead of working it out via characters on a tv show.

I posted these snippets on twitter back in 2019.

#the magicians #tw suicide #tw suicidal ideation #quentin coldwater #john mcnamara #sera gamble #quentin coldwater deserved better #mental health #depression #Youtube

[kscribbs]

A wee doodly.

Do not get Dite and Lucy started on their fave subject. You will quite literally never hear the end of it (at least, that’s the premise for this lil sketch. I am not the authority on either of them).

Dite belongs to the lovely and talented @safyresky​.

I have to remind myself daily that Lucy does not, in fact, belong to me. 

#was gonna add jack and jacquie having to literally drag the two of them apart but jack gave me SO much shit during the drawing process #eventually I was just like. you know what? jail #am sorry you were collateral jacquie #you deserve better #blame the big bother #dite #Lucy miller #adult!Lucy Miller #tsc #cs #crystal springs #admittedly this would've been far more apropos around Valentine's Day but I haven't posted in 84 yrs and it was just sitting in my drafts #v sketchy and Quentin Blake-y yet again #this probs makes more sense if you've read the fanfic that I haven't posted yet lmao #in which Lucy's magic is love-based #sorta #it's complicated #she's just full of Good Vibes