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#religious apologetics
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"To no one's surprise, modern Christian apologists, armed with stacks of diplomas from Bible colleges, have ginned up books and blogs by the hundreds to validate the conflicting, nonsensical New Testament stories.
The very fact that Bible stories require a small army of trained apologists to Jesusplain the contradictions is prima facie evidence the stories are fabrications."
-- Robert Conner
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10yrsyart · 1 year
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i decided to try something a little different. i often have these discussions in my head as i’m studying the Bible, but Apologetics can be heavy in text and hard to understand. so i thought.. well, i’m an artist. maybe i can make this more palatable. (the place they are at is my mindscape for prayer)
there are tons of places to go from here, and maybe i will in the future. but as someone who is coming out of a foundation of anxiety, this particular message is important to me. there is no condemnation for those that trust in the Lord and His work. He is capable of helping us and carrying us to the finish line 💙
transcript: 
10: Y'know Lord, a lot of people read Matthew 7:21-23 and get scared. “Not everyone who calls out to Me, 'Lord! Lord!' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”
Jesus: “On judgment day many will say to M, 'Lord! Lord! We prophesied in Your name and performed miracles in Your name!' But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who break God's laws.' “ Let's think about this. What are the “works” of God?
10: Uhm.. oh! John 6:29, “Jesus told them, 'This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the One He has sent.' “ So then, they didn't really believe in You? You said You don't know them.
Jesus: Now read Matthew 12:50.
10: “Anyone who does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother!”
Jesus: My family are those who have been adopted through the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:15-16 says, “You received God's Spirit when He adopted you as His children (…) For His Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God's children.” These are the ones that I “know.” As for My Father's will-
10: Oh, I know this one. John 6:40, “For it is My Father's will that all who see His Son and believe in Him shall have eternal life.” So essentially, the people saying “Lord, Lord” weren't believers because they trusted in their works to save them, instead of Your work on the cross. And You said You don't know them to prove they don't have the Holy Spirit.
Jesus: They are similar to the crowd I speak to in Revelation 3:15-21.
10: Ah, the dreaded Lukewarmers. “You say, 'I am rich. I have everything I want. I don't need a thing.' And you don't realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.” Yikes.
Jesus: And what do I tell them to buy from Me in verse 18?
10: White garments, among other things..
Jesus: Psalm 51:7 says, “Purify me from my sins and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.” And 1 John 1:7 says, “The blood of Jesus, (God's) Son, cleanses us from all sin.” You, for example, are already in possession of white garments. My blood through My sacrifice cleansed them when you believed.
10: So the Lukewarmers don't believe in You either, because they trust in their wealth and possessions instead of You. But they say they're Christians just because they do to Church, or because their families are Christian.
Jesus: Born Again believers with the Holy Spirit never have to fear rejection from Me or My Father. “And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of those He has given Me, but that I should raise them up on the last day.” (John 6:3) As John 14:23 states, We will never take the Holy Spirit away once He's been given.
10: Once “Born Again”, no “unborning again” happening later, ey?
Jesus: Hahah! “No, I will not abandon you as orphans- I will come to you.” (John 14:18)
Jesus: “When everything is ready, I will come and get you so that you will always be with Me where I am.” (John 14:3)
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skaldish · 1 year
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hey, I recently had to interact with an evangelical family member on thanksgiving (as in, I calmly listened and explained "my views and values differ from yours, but I appreciate you sharing your world view with me" while I was aggressively proselytized at for well over an hour; even by evangelical standards, this family member is aggressive about pushing his beliefs onto others).
I was raised atheist and don't usually have an issue with this; I don't believe in hell or divine punishment, but things he said keep popping into my head (like being called "the definition of being lost" for saying im agnostic— which is a half truth but he wouldn't be receptive to a full explanation). I'm tacking this down to a combination of evangelical thought poison and my anxiety disorder related habit of ruminating (which thankfully I'm working with a therapist on now).
I know you're passionate about the subject of cult thought and the likes and just wanted to know if you had any advice or thoughts re: getting cult thinking that doesn't align with your views or values to kindly edit your headspace.
hope you're well 💚
Apologetics. It's something every Evangelical learns, and it's a form of mind-control. They engage nonbelievers in religious debate and use it to covertly indoctrinate them.
Evangelicals spend years learning how to counter every argument, direct conversations towards specific points, compromise our mental reasoning through various means, and inject their logic into the vulnerable mind, which then festers on its own.
Apologetics is a masterstroke of manipulation, and one of the very few things I consider evil.
My best friend is ex-Evangelical and well-versed in Apologetics. A while back, they gave me an example of how it works (with my consent of course).
Now, I'm extremely good at entertaining ideas without adopting them. It's a skill I deliberately and constantly wield, almost subconsciously at this point.
There's no way I could do it. The more you think it over, the deeper it digs into your brain. All an Evangelical has to do is feed you enough information and your own thoughts will do the work from there.
My friend wasn't even simulating an actual instance of proselytizing; they framed things within the context of, "This is what they'd say." And yet I could literally feel my mind tunnel at the logic, burrowing its way deeper every time I thought, "But what if...?"
I did throw it, though. The way I shook it off was Occam's Razor: "Simpler explanations are more likely to be correct."
Evangelical philosophy is too complex to be statistically probable compared to other frameworks. It even compensates for this by portraying itself as the only safe bet in a high-stakes game. But the reason we find it so compelling is because it makes us fear for our survival. It's the same fear we get when we hear rustling in the bushes when there's a predator around...only this time the tiger is something we can't know. Regardless, our lizard-brains will always take a false positive over a false negative in those situations, and will try to do so if it succumbs to the existential dread. This evil, perfect storm is what drives people to convert.
I've seen many forms of mental manipulation, but Apologetics is a weapon unlike any other.
So here's my advice to you and everyone else:
When it comes to the Evangelical debate game, the only winning move is not to play.
Do everything you can do avoid the topic of religion in conversation, and make a concentrated effort to give it as little breathing room as possible. Bring up a different topic. Say "no thanks" and move on. Ask questions about secular things. Ignore the religious content peppered within statements. Be cordial, but never ever let up on that boundary.
I don't know your relative, but I do know Evangelicals never respond well when denied a platform. They may try to persuade, provoke, trick, or guilt you into giving it to them, so be prepared to hold your ground if you have to interact with them. If all else fails, excuse yourself from the conversation.
Remember: It's not rude to hold a boundary. Don't let anyone convince you that it is.
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shredsandpatches · 8 months
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@skyeventide your Mannposting made me think of this, from Dorothy Sayers' The Devil to Pay, a 1939 Faust adaptation about which I have some mixed feelings (apologetics kinda make me sneeze) but the final act, in which the Angel of Death files a counter-claim against Mephistopheles for Faustus' soul and everyone gets to argue things out, is really great.
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Keep your vision clear. 👓
“The instrument through which you see God is your whole self. And if a man's self is not kept clean and bright, his glimpse of God will be blurred”
— C.S. Lewis (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963), 'Mere Christianity (1952)'
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seraphim-eternal · 7 months
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"If I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world. If none of my earthly pleasures satisfy it, probably earthly pleasures were never meant to satisfy it."
C.S. Lewis
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audhdnight · 4 months
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Disclaimer, before I get into this: I do not believe a god of any kind exists. Some people believe the god of the Bible exists as a single entity among many other entities, and to that I say, to each their own. I personally do not hold that belief, so when I talk about what god could have done or what god is and isn’t, this is in a purely hypothetical sense. It is to draw attention to the inconsistencies in the way the Christian god is presented, in hopes that his followers might recognize a bit of their cognitive dissonance and realize they could look at things a lot more objectively.
Moving on~
The following image is a screenshot of part of a post I made last week. The entire thing is not relevant to this specific discussion, so I’ve only included two specific paragraphs, although if you’d like to read the whole thing I can post it here too. (The image description is in the alt text.)
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In the comment section of this post, a Christian woman replied:
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I’m going to break down these analogies because I am seriously so sick of seeing people repeat them as if they actually make any sense at all.
To start, her analogy of the lion’s den is omitting the fact that my hypothetical father in this scenario not only created the den and put the lions in it, but then also put me into it. Then he saved me, and expected me to be grateful and worship him and decide “wow, he saved me so I guess he must love me pretty much! guess that means I have to follow every rule he sets for me now!” She also makes it sound as if there are only two choices: worship this convoluted father with a praise kink, or else jump back into the pit of lions. When in reality, what’s stopping me from simply walking away from it all? Is the den and the ground around it the only thing that exists in this world? Because I would assume if I keep walking, I would keep finding ground to walk on. And eventually I’d come to a place where my father isn’t, and I’d probably just stay there.
In the second comment she uses the example of a couple who decided to set boundaries in their relationship. Right off the bat, this argument is completely invalidated by the simple fact that there is no equal partnership between a person and “God”. There is a massive power imbalance, in which no form of equality can ever exist. Even setting that to the side, though, we need to acknowledge that these are not “boundaries”, in the sense that all parties must abide by them or else part ways. They are rules, and only the non-God party has to follow them.
In a separate post I made a while ago about my issues with the god of the Bible, I brought up the fact that the true biblical God cannot be loving. He supposedly led the nation of Judah on a colonization campaign through the ancient Middle East, giving them full permission to slaughter entire cities, take all their shit, and keep their women as slaves. I said that I cannot in good conscience follow a god who says murder is wrong, but then explicitly instructs his “chosen people” to murder thousands upon thousands of people just because they were “gentiles” living on the land promised to them by that same god. In the comments of that post, another woman said this, which is a very common belief in Christianity:
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This is why I hate the concept of “sin” as a whole. It’s not bad because it’s bad, it’s bad because god said so. Which means he can also say something completely different, and that makes it okay but just for him. Murder isn’t murder when god kills someone. Stealing isn’t stealing if god said you could have it. Rape isn’t rape if god told you that you could keep that woman as a slave.
So in the analogy of a woman and her partner, these are not boundaries like “we can’t hit each other or fight, we can’t lie to each other or cheat”. They are rules that say “you can’t hit me or talk back, you can’t keep things from me or leave this relationship. but me? I can do whatever I want”.
The god of the Bible is not a loving deity. He is a control freak who is perfectly happy to let you suffer for all eternity if you decide you don’t like the way he runs things. I see a lot of Christians in my comments constantly, telling me that god didn’t decide to punish you for not loving him. It’s just a natural consequence; if you decide to be separated from him, his protection doesn’t work and that’s why it’s torment.
To that I always say, why? Why did god make a reality in which his protection only extends to those who worship him? Why did he make it so that we have to suffer if we’re apart from him? He’s all-powerful right? So couldn’t he have created a reality in which, whether you liked him or not, the outcome was the same? All people, regardless of faith, had an afterlife that didn’t torture them? I don’t know if it’s just that Christians have no imagination or what, because I can conceive of multiple ways in which suffering simply wouldn’t have to exist if I had made the world.
Of course the response I always get is “But you’d have to take people’s choice! We’d be robots!” And again I ask, why? God could have made it so that we could all only make choices within the bounds of what does not harm ourselves or others. He could’ve made it so that greed and hate and apathy simply didn’t exist in people’s minds, if he wanted to. And sure, maybe you’d say it isn’t fair to keep people from being able to make those choices. But I would say that in this hypothetical reality, we wouldn’t know the fucking difference. We would be happy. Everyone would have what they needed, no one would ever suffer.
Anyway, “free will” within Christianity does not exist. You cannot give true consent in an imbalanced power dynamic, or when saying “no” is unsafe, and god meets both those conditions.
This whole thing is another great example of how Christians actively believe a whole lot of directly conflicting things, but the indoctrination keeps them from seeing it.
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highlyentropicmind · 6 days
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I'm dying for religious apologists to discover Hazbin Hotel and completely miss the point, only for people to reply to them, and then reply to replies… We are gonna reach levels of discourse not seen since Steven Universe, but in a MUCH larger scale
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atheostic · 2 years
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Sh!t Christians Say
"If you don't believe in God then why do you say 'Oh my God'?"
=-=-=-=
Religion doesn’t own language and it doesn’t own words. 
Back in ye olde days people chose to insert religion into colloquial language. Now you have to live with the fact that non-religious people use religious language because the colloquial language contains religious terms.
When Muslims say “What did I do wrong in a past life?” are they confessing to believing in reincarnation? No. 
Are Jewish people who say ��Karma’s a bitch, huh?” admitting they’re actually Hindu or Buddhist? No.
Are Christians who use the term "soulmate" actually believers in the Greco-Roman gods since the concept comes from an Ancient Greek myth? No.
Are atheists who say “Oh my God!” admitting to believing in a god? No.
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alexthepleb · 1 year
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Fundies are so asinine when they say the only reason we don't believe in God is a desire to sin.
Listen, guilt-free masturbation is a poor consolation prize to get in return for having your whole world-view literally wrecked. I have cried over my atheism. I have tried to take leaps of faith and begged God to chat.
Most likely, there's just no one on the other end. So please, stop with the nonsense.
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As a lifelong atheist in the midwest I am so exhausted by being considered "other" or the "alternative" to literally the most unscientific, ahistorical, and just generally bonkers opinions I've ever heard.
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The Three Laws of Creationist Apologetics The First Law Faith in Creation can never be destroyed. In a closed mind, the level of ignorance must always remain equal. The Second Law Creationists will always conflate separate scientific fields of study. As a result, all conversations tend towards entropy. The Third Law In any conversation, the replies that are simply links to "scientiif" creationist articles, tends towards constant, as the understanding of those articles approaches absolute zero.
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10yrsyart · 11 months
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“Restitution: an act of restoring, or a condition of being restored”
None of us are perfect and so all of us have broken God’s Law. Good deeds can’t erase wrongs, just as you can’t recapture words that have left your mouth. But God loved us so much that He provided the payment for our sins instead. “He cancelled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.” (Colossians 2:14)
Just as these people had a choice to accept the offer of legal freedom, we also have the choice to accept Jesus’ payment for us, and His freedom. “For God has rescued us from the kingdom of darkness and transferred us into the Kingdom of His dear Son, who purchased our freedom and forgave our sins.” (Colossians 1:13-14)
Don’t rely on the good things you do as a ticket to Heaven. Only perfection is allowed into God’s home. Which is why Jesus, who lived a perfect life and died in our place, is the only way to be made perfect in God’s eyes. His righteousness covers us when we believe. A third option isn’t there; you either live with Him or live separated from Him forever. Believe in Jesus and accept His offer of payment and eternal life, for He loved you enough to pay it all so you can live. 💙
“For the wages is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23)
transcript:
Judge: You three have been charged with embezzlement, grand theft, and resisted arrest. You have two options. The first: A prison sentence that will continue until you have payed the entire sum of money that was lost. The second is provided by this gentleman here. He has offered to pay your bail in full, which I will accept as restitution, and your record will be wiped. Make your decisions now please.
Red Man: Who the heck is this guy, talking like he owns the place? These charges are totally unfair.
Blue Woman: What were you expecting? We did break the law.
Red Man: So our choices are living it up in prison or being indebted to this rich goody goody? I'm not accepting that. I don't need him. Where's the third option?
Purple Woman: I don't need a bail out either, I've done a lot of charity work. I'm sure there's a balance there somewhere.. You just have to wheedle the judge a little.
Blue Woman: Are you listening to yourself?-
Judge: Have you made your decisions?
Red Man: Yeah, I refuse! Who made it a crime to borrow a lil' money here and there? It's a free country, ain't it? Actually, it's a crime to discriminate against me like this!
Judge: So you have chosen the first option. I am truly sorry to hear this, Sir. Very well, officers, if you would-
Red Man: Hey, get your hands off me!
Judge: And you, ma'am?
Purple Woman: You see, Judge, I've worked with many nonprofits and charities over the years. They can vouch for me! I'm not really a bad person, this was just a little lapse in judgment, that's all.
Judge: I'm afraid it doesn't matter how many good works you've done, ma'am. The law is still the law, and you've broken it. If you do not accept the pardon you've been offered, you must accept the consequences of your actions.
Purple Woman: Let go of me! I don't deserve this-
Judge: What about you, ma'am?
Blue Woman: ..I'd like to accept this man's generous offer. But, if I may.. Why do you trust him to follow through? It's a rather large price...
Judge: Wonderful, a good question! I have seen his work and I trust his integrity explicitly. For you see- He is my Son.
Yeshua: Congratulations!
Blue Woman: Thankyou.. Thankyou so much! How can I ever repay you?!
Yeshua: I don't want your payment, I'm satisfied that you're free.
Blue Woman: But why?
Yeshua: Let's take a walk together for a bit and get to know each other. I'm doing something quite exciting, and I want you to be a part of it.
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surrealisticduvet · 7 months
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hey jude and I know (I know) have a similar line length/cadence to the point where they'd make a fascinating mashup. do people make those anymore.
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theostrophywife · 3 months
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stalker! theo who falls for a pretty little ravenclaw after you run into him in the hall, flustered and frenzied as your books and parchment spill out of your hands.
stalker! theo who listens to his raven mumble apologetically, rambling about deadlines and deadbeat project partners who left you to complete an assignment all alone.
stalker! theo who watches in fascination as you scramble to get yourself sorted, apologizing and sniffling for running into him.
stalker! theo who stares at your pretty doe eyes filled with tears, lower lip trembling as you timidly take the papers that he's gathered and organized for you.
stalker! theo who smirks at the little flush that creeps up your neck when your fingers brush together. your voice a quiet little rasp as you murmur, thank you, theo.
stalker! theo who is a little surprised that you even know his name, mesmerized at how pretty you look when you cry, leaning down to fluster you a little more before he whispers, you're welcome, little raven.
stalker! theo who honest to merlin felt his heart stop when you reward him with a smile. a shy little smile that has him hooked from that day forward.
stalker! theo who finds your deadbeat partner and threatens him into pulling his weight or else he'll pull his intestines out of his body if he makes theo's little raven cry again.
stalker! theo who can't help but smile when you grin at him in the halls, waving shyly as you pass by with your group of friends who tease you as you blush prettily for him.
stalker! theo who starts to crave you more than cigarettes. who asks anything and everything about you. finding out your class schedule, your dorm number, your favorite spots in hogsmeade.
stalker! theo who watches you study in the library, hiding behind stacks and stacks of books, keeping an eye on his pretty raven as you recite facts under your breath, anxiously biting down on your lip and tapping the end of your quill against your chin when you come across a particularly hard question.
stalker! theo who follows you all the way back to your dorm, making sure you get in safely. lurking in the shadows as you cautiously look over your shoulder, pretty eyes alert and ready as you squint in the darkness.
stalker! theo who finds a sick thrill in watching you shiver as your gaze passes over his hiding spot, eyes unfocused and glazed as you gloss over him in the darkness of the castle, steps picking up as you climb your way up ravenclaw tower, answering the door’s riddle whilst clutching your wand closer to your chest.
stalker! theo who waits until you're good and settled, because he knows how long your bedtime routine is, knows you like to shower and stick to your skincare routine religiously before tucking yourself into bed and cuddling your little stuffie to sleep.
stalker! theo who lets himself into your dorm with a master key he nicked from dumbledore's office, sneaking quietly into your room and making himself right at home.
stalker! theo who nosily flickers through the knickknacks on your desk, all perfectly lined up in neat little rows, which he returns them to before sauntering over to your bookshelves and tracing over the notes and lines that you'd scribbled onto the worn, yellow pages.
stalker! theo who hovers by your bed, brushing a stray strand of hair from your face and smiling as he watches you sleep peacefully, all snuggled up in bed. thumb brushing over your cheek as he presses his lips against yours in a sweet little peck before whispering, sweet dreams, my pretty little raven.
stalker! theo who freezes when you stir, fingers reaching for him in the dark, while you softly murmur in your sleep. please, theo. the bulge in his trousers growing while you moan and whimper so desperately. desperate for him.
stalker! theo who exhales a shaky breath, knowing that it's wrong, so wrong to invade your privacy like this, but he just can't help himself. you bring out the addictive, compulsive side to him and he's obsessed.
stalker! theo who is pilfering through your dresser, pulling out a pair of your pretty lace pink panties. who knows how fucked up it is to touch himself like this even as he unbuckles his belt and pulls his boxers down, wrapping your panties around his cock before stroking himself, getting off on listening to your pretty little sounds, still moaning his name in your sleep.
stalker! theo who is panting and gasping as he pumps himself while a choked groan crawls up his throat. he tries to tamper down his noises by biting his lip, canines sinking into his bottom lip so hard that he’s breaking skin and drawing blood. watching as crimson dots stain you bedsheets, wishing he could leave them there to mark his territory.
stalker! theo who finishes all over your pretty panties, covering the lace in his cum while you continue to dream, blissful and unaware of the filthy, dirty way he’d wanked himself off right beside you.
stalker! theo who leans down to murmur, fuck. you don’t know what you do to me, principessa. i fucking adore you. i’d do anything for you. there’s no limit to the lengths i’d go to just to make you smile. theo sighs, kissing your temple. you’re mine, cara mia. even if you don’t now it yet. i promise that you will soon, y/n. i’ll make you mine no mater what it takes.
stalker! theo who lingers by the door cause he can’t help but sneak one last glance at you. smiling softly, he watches adoringly as you snuggle your stuffie closer. his heart threatens to burst at the precious sight and in that moment theo knows. he’d do anything for you. he’d kill for you. he’d die for you. but for now, he has to settle for the memory of your soft rasp, saying his name over and over again like a prayer.
stalker! theo who leans against the doorway, slipping your pretty pink panties into his pocket for safekeeping before whispering softly in the darkness, goodnight, my pretty little raven.
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trinitiesblog · 2 years
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podcast 355 – Dr. Steven Nemes on Trinity theories – Part 2
https://trinities.org/blog/podcast-355-dr-steven-nemes-on-trinity-theories-part-2/
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