Okay before I go into the ASPD thing, wanna do a quick summary of what I have so far:
Zeus/Jupiter: OCPD and Autism (based on being the god of law and order, and justice, as well as king of Olympus)
Poseidon: BPD and ASPD (based on the idea of a moody and volatile sea)
Neptune: SZPD and ASPD (based on the idea of an emotionless and uncaring sea)
Ares: IED and ASPD (self-explanatory)
Hades/Pluto and Thanatos/Mors: infertility, and, in rare cases, sterility (self-explanatory)
Hypnos/Somnus, Morpheus, and the Oneiroi/Somnia: Excessive daytime sleepiness, maladaptive daydreaming (self-explanatory, have also been thinking about STPD and DPDR)
Aphrodite/Venus and other similar deities: Hypersexuality, NPD, BPD and HPD (first one is self-explanatory, I'm still thinking about the other three and might do a separate post about them at some point, also considering Body Dysmorphia but I have to do some thinking on that one as well)
Hermes/Mercury: Kleptomania (self-explanatory)
Now! Onto the main point: propensity of Antisocial Personality Disorder in children of the sea and children of war.
First things first, please check out @neurosharky! He has a lot of good posts discussing his experience with ASPD, and I found them very helpful in framing understanding around the diagnostic criteria.
The DSM-5 describes, "Antisocial Personality Disorder is characterized by a pervasive pattern of disregard for consequences and for the rights of others." It can only be diagnosed in people 18 years and older, and patients must have evidence of a conduct disorder being present before 15. They must show three or more of the following symptoms:
Disregard of the law, typically indicates by repeatedly committing acts that are grounds for arrest
Being deceitful, indicated by lying repeatedly, using aliases, or conning other for personal gain or pleasure
Acting impulsively, or not planning ahead
Being easily provoked or aggressive, indicated by constantly getting into physical fights or assaulting others
Recklessly disregarding their safety or the safety of others
Consistently acting irresponsibly, indicated by quitting a job with no plans for another one or not paying bills
Not feeling remorse, indicated by indifference to or rationalization of hurting or mistreating others
(Side note: the diagnostic criteria is so... idk, something about the phrasing makes me laugh)
Personally, I don't think Percy has ASPD. From my interpretation of canon, I think he cares and thinks too much of people. Not to say that people with ASPD can't care or think of other people, but from a "disregards the rights of other people", I don't think Percy fits. He does rise to anger quickly, and doesn't think much of his own safety, imo, so there are traits there but that's likely more related to BPD.
Now - the ocean, Poseidon, Neptune, Amphitrite, other ocean gods out there, my beloveds, they can be angry uncaring beauties. As I've discussed before and mentioned above, in PJO canon, I interpret Poseidon as being representative of the moody, ever-changing sea, hence the BPD. He's clingy, demanding, quick to anger, volatile, emotional, dramatic.
In PJO, the Romans eschew the ocean, so Neptune, although we never see him in canon, comes across as the opposite. He's detached from society, doesn't care about the people who cross his waters, doesn't care if you live or die, little emotion, flat, bored - so SZPD.
Their destructive ways are different across these lines as well. Poseidon will drown you because you've pissed him off and Neptune will drown you because he doesn't care enough to save you, no matter how hard you pray.
How does ASPD play into this? Think about the commonalities in both representations of the ocean - it will kill you without thought. It is unapologetic. A moody ocean will hurt you, an uncaring ocean will hurt you. Another thing I've come across is that ASPD is a defense against being controlled. You can't control the ocean! It does what it wants, and fuck you for thinking you're in charge of the seas.
Additionally, in SZPD, while alexithymia is common, most people appear to feel anger much more strongly than other emotions. Which makes sense, imo, anger is a very strong emotion and easier, for me at least, to make sense of. In BPD and ASPD, being quick to anger is fairly common. BPD and ASPD share impulsivity as a symptom as well.
Low empathy and little to no emotion is also a shared trait in ASPD and SZPD, as well as a detachment from society. For SZPD, it typically appears as a detachment from emotional connection, relationships, and/or socialization. For ASPD, it's more of a detachment from social rules. People with SZPD are asocial, people with ASPD are... well, antisocial, lol. People often mistake the latter for the former, but asocial is a preference for solitude and antisocial is a disregard for the feelings and wellbeing of other people.
So that's the ocean. Some ideas of how the comorbidities may present:
Coral is a daughter of Neptune with extreme SZPD. She has little interest in societal rules, and little understanding of morality and ethics. However, she - as much as she can with her SZPD - cares for her mom, and thus does her best to follow the rules her mom has explained or laid out for her. She doesn't have much capacity for remorse or guilt, and will hurt people without much regard for them. However, she purposely avoids interacting with others and so rarely is the instigating cause.
Melpomene is a daughter of Neptune with more prominent ASPD traits and SZPD. She has less severe alexithymia, and is easily prone to anger. She doesn't start fights, but she doesn't back down from them. If you fuck with her, she'll fuck with you. She has a basic, albeit still small, sense of morality, but lacks a code of ethics and the motivation to adhere to it. She does not care about other people's safety and will abandon them to their doom. This overlaps with her SZPD because she finds emotional responses uncomfortable and stressful, so panic and distress in others turns her away. Her detachment from people leads her to lie and manipulate people, typically to make them go away (SZPD) or put them in harm's way for the fun of it , or as revenge due to seeing them as trying to control her (ASPD).
In a child of Poseidon with BPD traits, ASPD may present simultaneously with a fear of abandonment that causes them to react violently towards whatever or whoever they perceive is causing the abandonment. They may disregard that person's safety and rights in order to keep them close at hand (think kidnapping, or physical harm rendering them immobile and dependent). They can rationalize their actions away (I need you, you're not allowed leave me, etc etc). Splitting may provoke their anger issues. Intense emotional mood swings might cause them to instigate or pick fights, and impulsive behaviour can lead to breaking various laws and ignoring their own safety.
I don't think any personality disorder is mutually exclusive to one another. There might be some that are more uncommon to be comorbid with one another, but I've seen discussion that comorbidity between personality disorders (i.e. having more than one) is fairly common. And in doing research into various personality disorders, I've seen a lot of people say things like, "SZPD with OCPD traits" - situations where they don't meet the full qualification for the second personality disorder, those traits aren't intense enough to be considered considered/presumably, or the secondary traits appear to stem primarily from their initial personality disorder rather than being it's own thing. So there's that too.
So yeah, think of the ocean. The beautiful, uncontrollable, dangerous, salty ocean.
Now for Ares and his kids. I separate Ares from Mars because Mars is considered more disciplined than Ares, he was less of bloodlust god, more orderly and held in higher regard than his Greek counterpart, and I prefer to view him that way in PJO canon.
So IED (intermittent explosive disorder) and ASPD are fairly self-explanatory in regards to the god of war and bloodlust, a deity noted to personify brutality and savageness. But I'll detail some stuff anyway!
The first child of Ares we meet is Clarisse. And the first thing she does when we meet her is bully Percy. The second thing she, and other members of her cabin do, is try to injure him during the Capture the Flag game. Someone (Percy, I think, I don't have the book on hand) points out that they'll get trouble for hurting him and she just shrugs it off.
So that's: disregard of other people's safety, easily provoked, rationalizing away the mistreatment of others (he deserves it for humiliating her), acting impulsively and not planning ahead (did they think about what would happen if Percy were seriously injured as a new camper with minimal training? what if someone interrupted them before Percy blew up the river? what was the end goal to hurting him?), disregarding the camp rules
Now I think part of the reason ASPD is not diagnosed in people under 18 is because, like we see with Clarisse in canon, some people grow out of their behaviour. With her, and probably much of her cabin, their anger issues - which I believe is something they have a higher propensity for as well, and that they share it with their Roman half-siblings - causes them to bully and hurt others.
A lot of personality disorders develop from trauma, and we also know Clarisse was abused in some way by her dad (re: Sea of Monsters) so her reactions towards other people may stem from that. Before 18 their behaviour is typically diagnosed as a conduct disorder, to which I imagine treatment and intervention is attempted to hopefully avoid it continuing into ASPD by adulthood. According to some quick research, about 25% to 40% of children with a conduct disorder are typically diagnosed with ASPD in adulthood.
I think it would be really interesting if Clarisse didn't age out of her aggressive behaviour, and maintained ASPD traits into adulthood. I guess a neat concept would be Silena managing to sort of "soften" that side of her, and then, in BoTL, when she's caring for Chris, it's a moment of "I will be better for them". So she works hard to keep her traits at bay, because she wants to be a morally good person for these two people that she loves - even if she still is an amoral person.
It would be cool if she and Percy talked about it. I tend to view him as a fairly amoral person as well, ascribing to the moral view of the people he cares about (his mom, Grover, Annabeth). So maybe after a spar, she asks how it's so easy for him to be so stubborn about right or wrong and he's just, "Well, I love my mom and the idea of disappointing her fills me with a dread so intense I want to vomit and/or kill myself."
"Gods, that sounds like shit."
"Yeah, it's not the greatest."
"I can't imagine being afraid of disappointing someone. But... I guess I do like making Chris happy. He's got cute dimples, you know?"
"Focus on that. Would beating the shit out of some newbie punk make him happy? Would it show his dimples?"
"... probably not. Ugh. This shit is hard."
"But you can do it."
"Yeah, I fucking can. What, you think I'm a wimp? Can't tough out being a normal person for my boyfriend?"
"... Yes."
"I'm going to fucking kill you."
"Not if I kill you first."
So those are my thoughts on the propensity of developing ASPD or traits of ASPD in demigods. For Poseidon/Neptune, it represents the uncaring, angry, and remorseless nature of the ocean. For Ares, it represents the brutality and bloodthirstiness of war.
Again, if you have any thoughts on anything that you think the nature of certain gods may cause their kids to be predisposed to, feel free to hit me up with your thoughts! It's probably pretty obvious to the people who follow me (see my recent ramblings about the Roman trio and their dissociation and literally everything I've ever written about Jason being raised by wolves 😂), but I love analyzing shit like this!
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welcome!
(a remake of my previous intro post bc Shit Has Changed)
you can call me maxim and / or refer to me by my kin names. my prns are it / he / they and any neos! mix it up i need enrichment in my enclosure djskfhdsjf
i am a minor!! also im white!!
im genderqueer + transmasc and non-sam arospec / demiromantic, and i have one queerplatonic partner and one romantic partner!
im AuDHD and have GAD and HPD and i have psychosis, i suspect a few other things (including NPD) but those are the important ones lol
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