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opheliasam · 4 months

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The thing is that the ways in which dean and sam need each other are both compatible and parallel in their nature.

Dean needs sam to stay with him (let him take care of him look after him and be with him) and sam despite all his need for autonomy and freedom which he does desire of course (he needs dean to respect his choices and see him) also needs dean to need him—choose him. It’s always been that way—something we see from the very pilot itself. He goes with dean in the pilot after dean admits that he doesn’t want to do it without sam even if he is capable for it.

It affects sam profoundly when dean gets close to other people—especially men because it threatens the idea that dean could need people other than him (even the mere desire to want for others apart from him is distasteful even if he doesn’t want it to be—he just can’t help it, it’s the way they are.) Of course dean has never needed for anything more than sam, that sam and just sam has always been more than enough but sam needs that from him, constantly and actively.

In Sacrifice (8x23), when he reveals that the fact that dean chose to turn to people (an angel, a vampire) apart from him was unbearable to him was just so.. much. And it’s interesting because we know that sam too is friends with cas, has never been shown to consider him a rival in any sense (but just the mere possibility of sam and just sam not being enough for dean is devastating for him.) He doesn’t harbour any resentment or competition towards cas, it’s just that he needs to be the choice over everything else from dean. He needs it because he chose that too, even when he had a chance to get out—multiple times over. And yes, the circumstances shaping his choices are often not ideal, are sometimes not even entirely choices but he always stays because of the knowledge that dean will always choose him.

The conflict then is often caused by doubt—dean, deeply insecure about sam’s loyalty. For him, it’s a given—that sam will always be first, has always and forever been above everything else but he expects sam to know it too. Despite everything he puts on him and says to him, despite the fights and the anger and the mistrust. None of that will ever change this one fundamental thing.

But Sam doesn’t (!!) Maybe at one time he did, before the demon blood and the soullessness and the countless countless ways he thinks he fucked up but somewhere along the line it became clear to Sam that he could not trust it to always be Dean’s first choice, can’t know it for sure.

Doubt again, Sam—unable to know if Dean will always choose him over all else and Dean unable to verbalise that enough because of said insecurity (the fear that he needs sam more than sam needs him) and unable to understand why Sam would feel this way because he expects him to already know that Sam will always be above all else, at the end of the day despite whatever happens because that is who Dean is.

#reasons I feel are at the base of most of their conflicts ^^ apart from those involving autonomy of course but even that is motivated by +#Dean’s deep fear of Sam not choosing him when it matters most so he doesn’t even allow him the choice because he is so afraid that Sam will #choose “wrong”—exacerbated after the events of s4 so in the later seasons he doesn’t even give him the choice #the tragedy of which is that given the choice Sam would always choose him !! 😭#But because Dean doesn’t have it in himself to give Sam that choice sam never gets to affirm it (which would be good for Dean !! btw)#and when Sam rightfully gets angry because of stolen agency it just fuels Dean’s fear further and he lashes out #and this in turn further injures Sam’s faith in Dean always putting him first and so it goes on and on and on in a circle 💔#meta #samdean #sam winchester #dean winchester #spn #personal

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raayllum · 2 months

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Time to be wonderfully self indulgent and talk about a scene comparison I've wanted to for a hot second (while pointing very decidedly to This Post for posterity's sake).

So let's talk about the hostage exchanges for Callum and Rayla in 4x09 and 5x08, shall we?

First, let's look at the scene setup.

In 4x09, Rayla is very much the aggressor and pursuant, and the one who — initially — has more power. She has her sword up to Terry's throat, neither him nor Claudia have strong reason to think she wouldn't go through with it, and she explicitly threatens Terry's life precisely because of his importance to Claudia. This is similar as to why Finnegrin threatens Rayla (though there are differences, which we'll get to in a moment), so both elves start out as the aggressor in each scenario.

However, there is soon a shift. Callum's "deal" happens because he escalated violence against Finnegrin (the infamous punch), a tad more similarly perhaps to how Rayla is only threatening Terry because she believes Claudia and co. are a threat to the whole world. Now to be fair, Claudia is only threatening Rayla's parents because Rayla is threatening Terry, but we can assume she had the realization of their connection to Rayla a while ago and has been sitting on it just in case she needed leverage, given that she doesn't seem to need a second to consider. I also think we're inclined, typically within the show, to see the person offering up Options / a choice to make as the one who holds more power in the immediate situation (i.e. Karim's whole sun seed for Janai debacle) even if it may be 60-40 the way it is here.

Not a huge power imbalance, but enough that people are being pushed into corners, and that's exactly where Claudia and Finnegrin attempt to do, and arguably do more successfully, to Callum and Rayla respectively.

We've talked a fair bit about Claudia, so now I want to talk about Finnegrin, simply because he gets a whole episode of corner backing, and therefore there's more stages.

The first stage is Finnegrin attacking Callum as an individual — "Look at you: slave to your friends, your loyalties, your pride. I can give you your freedom though" — and it's the least effective, as Callum never budges or shows any real hints of budging even under torture. However, Callum's admission that he has indeed done dark magic before ("I did one spell. One. I had to, to save my friends") gives Finnegrin the tools he needs to create the next prong of his approach.

Stage two is attacking Callum through his friends, and is far more effective. This is why he sets the hand cutting challenge, and Callum buys into it, i.e. the idea that he has to choose, over the idea that Callum could conceivably offer up his own hand instead. This is not to say that he wouldn't — there's little doubt in my mind that Callum wouldn't have seriously considered if not outright done the chain spell up on deck if Rayla hadn't tried to intervene, since as Finnegrin correctly assesses, "They would do anything for you, so clearly you'll do anything for them" — just that his own hand didn't occur to Callum as an option the way it might've to someone like Rayla.

The third stage, of course, is the one that's most interesting to us, simply in how Callum's "hostage deal" differs from Rayla's in both its construction, their assumptions, and their responses.

Claudia: One thing I don't know though — if I threw the coins in the lava, would it release your spirits? Or would they be trapped in some kind of eternal burning agony? Let's trade. You let him go... and I'll give you the coins.

Finnegrin: The cave is for his protection. This way, he lures us a leviathan but doesn't get eaten. The one getting thrown into the sea serpent's hungry mouth is your elf girl.

Claudia's offered deal is different from Finnegrin's in a few ways.

1) Claudia's deal is explicitly stated in not just the text, but the scene itself ("Let's trade") meanwhile Finnegrin, unlike the two stages prior, does not offer Callum any notion of freedom this time around. Even though neither ends up being a fair deal regardless, the setup of said deal is different. Rayla is being legitimately offered; Callum is making a (desperate but understandable) assumption.

2) Exemplified in a drabble I wrote in which Finnegrin was bluffing, I think it's worth noting that the peril Rayla's parents were in was much more apparent. They were completely defenseless, Claudia was already holding them over the lava, and just one quick throw would be enough to potentially leave them in an "eternal burning agony" (which sounds worse than death by sea leviathan to me; at least that decidedly ends at one point). Rayla could see and hear all this. Callum, by contrast, did not see Rayla tied up, or in distress, and Finnegrin had no proof other than his word. That's not to say Callum was wrong to believe him — he'd just watched Finnegrin torture her, and Finnegrin was very much not bluffing in canon — but that normally Callum is a bit more skeptical and wants a bit more proof in regards to things, and this was a time where emotion really pushed him forward. The immediate consequences of however Rayla responded would be seen with her own eyes, where it's unlikely Callum would've even known precisely when Rayla had died/been eaten with any of his senses or knowledge; it's arguably the one 'mercy' that Finnegrin provided him.

3) And as stated, both Claudia and Finnegrin end up being disingenuous. It seems likely that Claudia always intended to trick Rayla, even if she'd let Terry go, given that while we don't see her slight of hand in general on screen, it doesn't seem like it would've been possible for her to take the coins back out again and switch them before tossing the pouch. That seems like a one and done type of thing earlier on. Finnegrin, of course, takes Callum to task for his assumption ("Oh my poor lad; that deal was no longer on the table") and given his choice to feed Rayla to the sea leviathan anyway, I don't think Finnegrin was ever telling Callum about his plans in order to get him to give up the info. I think it was just supposed to be a punishment, plain and simple, for the literal blow to his pride.

But now for the difference I think everyone clicked on this meta for, realistically, are the choices that Callum and Rayla made in response to the offered Deals.

When Rayla's parents lives are on the line, she considers, but ultimately refuses.

She does not partake in the deal. Rather, she escalates her own refusal of it by pushing Terry to his knees, says so outright — "I'm not making a deal with you!" — and looks up at Claudia, watching and waiting to see how she responds. Claudia as wholly tossed the coin pouch, and Rayla is seeing it arc down towards the lava, before she finally releases Terry to go and try to save her family.

Rayla does not fold the second her parents are verbally threatened, or when there is a possibility of getting them back. Despite her wanting to stop Claudia and Viren, the bigger issue is ultimately letting Claudia escape > actually keeping Terry away from her as an ally/helper. It is only when her parents will burn to death in front of her eyes that she relinquishes her stalemate in an attempt to save them.

You can argue that Rayla going back on her refusal means she made the same choice as Callum in 5x08, and that's fine; it's your prerogative, it's your interpretation, it's cool beans.

However, that doesn't ignore the character beat that Rayla at least refuses upon the first possibility of a threat. Claudia directly threatens three of Rayla's loved ones, and Rayla doesn't budge and verbally/physically refuses to give Claudia what she wants.

And Callum does the same with Finnegrin under torture... until Finnegrin threatens Rayla. The second Callum realizes that Rayla is in danger, that she will or might be killed, Callum folds.

The parallel response here would've been Rayla letting go of Terry the second that Claudia said she might throw the coins into the lava, but Rayla doesn't. And Callum does, even though as he said earlier ("I'm not going to help you murder the Archdragon of the Ocean") this makes him complicit in murder.

And this is where Callum's assumption really bites him in the ass, because he assumes that Finnegrin is still operating under the terms of their previous deal ("Told me something I wanted and now she's free as a bird") even though Callum isn't asking for his freedom, but Rayla's. But Finnegrin's pride is wounded — this was always meant to be a straight up punishment, not enough form of coercion — the wick of his anger lit, so it makes no difference.

Rayla refuses Claudia's deal when thinking it existed, only to find out it didn't. Callum agrees to Finnegrin's deal only to find it out it no longer exists. He gave Finnegrin what the pirate wanted and it isn't even going to save the person he gave it up for.

Both failed exchanges — or in Rayla's case, a failed rescue — end in defeat and devastation: Rayla sobbing and letting out a scream of anguished frustration, and Callum laying on the floor in despair, totally sideways from how much he's pulling at his chains.

I don't think I have to say much else as these scenes and comparisons basically speak for themselves. Neither choice these two make is necessarily the right or wrong choice — for Rayla, her inability to put what she wants first could've resulted in her parents' deaths and has caused herself and others a lot of suffering; for Callum, he understandably wanted to protect a loved one at all cost, even if that left him exploitable and unsuccessful amid Finnegrin's ire, and gave the pirate a dangerous piece of information.

However, I do think that although Callum's choice spells an ominous future (and that Rayla's foreshadows the uncertainty of what she may do when Callum is, inevitably, possessed again, and their futures collide), it's worth examining it as his biggest, more positive difference from Viren, and that's what my next post will be about — so stay tuned if you like.

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