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twdmusicboxmystery · 4 years

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Predictions and Musings for 10b (Mostly Musings ;D)

Okay, let’s talk predictions. The big question everyone is asking is whether I think we’ll see Beth in 10x10, or, more broadly, when I think we’ll see her.

I’m not willing to rule out that we’ll see her in 10x10. If we do, I think it will be minimal. Like an after-the-credits scene where only the audience sees her, but none of the characters do. That said, as we head into 10b I’m feeling more and more like she won’t actually surface until the season finale. Again, not ruling out 10x10, and I’d be happy to be wrong. But that’s not my strong, gut feeling either.

I’ll explain why. And I’m going to frame this post in terms of clocks. We’ll talk about the clock in Edwards’ office in 5x08, the 10:16 clock in 7x08, and how I see the rest of the season playing out.

Let’s start 7x08. I’m not sure how me and my fellow theorists even got started on this, but we’ve been discussing it for the past week or two. It may just have been that someone (it really wasn’t me) remembered the clock.

So here’s the thing: when Daryl escapes the Sanctuary in 7x08, he runs into Dwight’s room after a vat of pickles spills in front of him. He hides there for a time before escaping. Behind him, when he runs down to the corridor is a clock that read 10:16. Now, during s8, most of us were still hoping Beth would appear sometime during or near the end of All Out War, so we weren’t seriously considering S10 for her reappearance at that time. So we weren’t sure what the clock represented.

Now, as we’re in S10, and we’ve had all these ridiculous clues that she’s about to reappear, the 10:16 clock becomes really interesting. Because 10x16 will be the season finale of this season.

Remember that in this scene, when Daryl goes into Dwight’s room, there’s a ridiculous amount of Beth symbolism. He eats peanut-butter, he looks at the chess pieces, several of which are reminiscent of Grady, there are fish on the wall (water), we see his scars, etc. And of course this is him escaping his imprisonment, which has heavy parallels to Beth being imprisoned at Grady. So everything about this scene screamed Beth.

But let’s talk specifically about what happens in front of the 10:16 clock. Daryl is trying to escape and some Saviors who are evidently handling food supplies drop a glass jar of pickles and it breaks, spilling across the corridor. That’s why Daryl runs into Dwight’s room. These Saviors talk about cleaning it up and he doesn’t want to be seen. He waits until they’re done cleaning up the mess and the corridor is empty again before making a break for it.

So, do you remember what’s up with pickles? Via the St. Nicholas/Pickle story (X, X, X) there should be three resurrections at some point. Daryl’s “I Never” line in Still about Santa Clause probably points to this. What Santa Clause/St. Nicholas will bring him is a resurrected Beth.

(We also had a big emphasis on pickles during S7 via Eugene.)

But the myth says that St. Nick resurrected not one, but three boys/children/people depending on the version. I’ve theorized that the three resurrections will be the three remaining death fake out couples. (Glenn is dead for real, so not him.) I think the resurrections will be Beth, Rick, and Ezekiel. We haven’t seen Ezekiel’s death fake out yet, but I still think we will. And per Jerry’s shoe thing in 10x09, I think he’ll be involved.

Do all three resurrections have to happen simultaneously? I don’t think they HAVE to, but they COULD. And given that there’s a good chance that Beth and Rick are in the same place (helicopter people) I think there’s a good chance they will.

But the point here is that Daryl sees the pickles in front of the 10:16 clock. The way I’m interpreting that is that St. Nicholas will bring Daryl his gift at least in episode 10x16. So that’s why I think it’s less likely that we’ll see actually see her in 10x10.

Also, @wdway found something interesting in Slabtown that may support this:

“This is the scene where Beth has just come from Dawn's office and she is stopped in the hall by Dawn. It's always been strange about how this number was featured. I also want to point out the envelope type hang on the door if you enlarge it you can see that it's a pink (Pink Theory)…. Back to the number 5+5+6=16. So we have a 16 there's no true way of knowing if it's directed to this episode 16 or not.

Let's play around with what 16 and what these numbers in TWD world might look like as far as episodes. In s5e16 Conquer. In s5 series episode 56 was Self-Help. (Both very Beth-centric symbolism episodes.) Looking at 16, series number 16 was s2e10, 18 Miles Out (Beth’s suicide attempt). S1e6 was TS-19, the episode where TF was at the CDC eventually blew it up. (For this reference, see @angelthefirst1’s meta HERE.) By the way in the little library in the facility during a scene with Lori and Shane there is a 10-10 clock in the bookcase.”

But what does that mean for 10x10?

Well, let’s talk about the clock in Edwards’ office in 5x07. We’ve never done a very convincing job of figuring out what this clock points to. The hour hand points to the 10 while the minute hand points to the 8. Again, back in S5, we were definitely NOT thinking this pointed to S10. So there’s that. But even if we do so now, it seems to point to 10x08, the MSF. And MAYBE that’s a thing. I think there’s one way it could be, but overall it’s not terribly convincing. More on that in a minute.

But here’s the thing:

I actually think this clock may point to episode 10x10. Let me explain why. Warning: it involves math.

Due to Jesus’ death, we figured out that an hour represents a season as a whole, rather than the individual numbers pointing to episodes. That doesn’t work as there are only 12 numbers and 16 episodes. We saw the 9:30 clock behind Jesus and Carl in S7 and Jesus died in 9x08, which was exactly half-way through the hour/season. So I got out my trusty calculator and did some math. I tried this several different way and WAY over complicated it for myself. The easiest way to do it is this:

If you divide 1 hour 16 ways (by 16 episodes) each episode would be represented by 3.75 minutes. So if they want to point to something in episode 8, they would do 3.75 minutes multiplied by 8 episodes and you get 30. So they would point the minute hand of the clock toward 30 minutes (as they did with Jesus) to represent something happening in the MSF (episode 8). I hope that makes sense.

If you’re a visual person, check out this pie chart. If the minute hand is pointed at the 8 (40 minutes) then you divide that by 3.75 minutes for each episode, and you get roughly 10. Now, it’s not exact. It should be pointed at 37.5 minutes rather than 40. And honestly, it might be. This clock is very blurry because it’s in the background, and it may point to slightly before the 8. It’s just too hard to tell for sure.

Hence, I think this clock points to 10x10.

Now, anyone who reads @frangipanilove’s posts knows her theory is that the 10x10 clock actually points to 10x11 for various reasons. (Read HERE). And I can totally get behind that. I don’t know how it will all play out but she’s got some amazing evidence and it won’t bother me at all if this is actually pointing to ep 11 rather than 10. What she and I have kind of settled on is that both episodes (10 and 11) are sure to be super-important.

Different clocks truly do need to be interpreted different ways. For example, the 10:16 I mentioned above. Applying the number system I laid out above to it doesn’t produce anything specific. So I really think that clock, which reads a time of 10:16, literally points to episode 10x16. For the 10:10 clock, this system KIND of works. It obviously wouldn’t point to 10x10, but it would be 10x02 or 10x03. Both those episodes had lots of TD symbolism in them, but nothing much beyond that. But of course 10x02 plays into your 2 and 11 theories, and the fact that 2x10 was 18 Miles Out.

And then there’s THIS POST about how the time 10:10 on a clock has historically represented when certain famous assassinations happened. So, it’s possible we shouldn’t be reading into the numbers on this clock at all.

I can totally see tptb using different systems for different clocks, specifically to throw us off and make the symbolism insanely hard to interpret.

But what will be in episode 10 and/or 11?

Obviously this is all speculation, but let’s return to this scene in 5x07 and some things I’ve mentioned earlier in the week. Beth goes into Edwards’ office to ask what medicine she needs to give Carol to save her. He tells her, and then she walks into the dark tunnel/hallway. They also talk about Beth having the “key” to the drug locker.

So I’m thinking what we’ll get in 10x10 or 10x11 is the “key” to where Beth is and it will have a lot to do with healing. Part of it is healing Carol. (I’ll talk more about Carol tomorrow because there’s a LOT going on with her right now and it ties directly into Beth’s return.) But I know a lot of people have theories that Beth will bring a cure for the zombie virus as well. I don’t harp on that overly much, but I think it’s a real possibility, especially with what we know of the helicopter people and them purifying water. So this scene in Edwards’ office was a direct foreshadow of when/how/in what manner Beth will return.

For me, I think it will be directly tied to Connie. I’ve been saying since the beginning of the season that 1) Connie would get a death fake out. We’ll have to wait and see what Daryl finds, but I think this episode was the beginning of Connie’s death fake out. I think he’ll either not find her and Magna at all (just gone) or else maybe he’ll find blood and her sling shot or something else that makes him think she’s dead. Eaten by walkers. So I think he’ll believe she’s dead and for him it will be a major replay of Beth’s death.

So if anything along those lines happens, I think that in episode 10/11 he’ll find out that she’s alive and where she is. You know how I keep saying he and Carol will jump on his bike and go look for someone, and I’ve said I think it will be Connie? Yeah, it’s really kinda happening that way, guys. I can’t say for sure they’ll go on his bike, but much like back in S5, they’ll leave together to go find someone who’s (most likely) been taken hostage by another group. In S5 it was Beth. Here, it will be Connie. And we’ve solved the problem of why Carol would go with Daryl: because the cave in was her fault and she has super-heavy guilt over it.

And I think Connie will end up where Beth is in some way and will help bring Beth back to Daryl, fulfilling the symbolism from 10x01 where she brought Dog to him on the beach. So I’m thinking we’ll learn Connie’s whereabouts in ep 10/11 and while it won’t be about Beth in an obvious way, it will lead to her. And maybe Daryl will finally come face to face with Beth in 10x16. That’s what I’m hoping for, anyway. But again, these are just predictions and could prove to be wrong.

More random-but-compelling evidence for 10x16? This also from @wdway:

“While I was looking at all this from I remembered something that I played around with a while back and I even mentioned it I think to you guys but now that it's closer to us it might mean more. At the end of the episode Coda we have the fire truck and that number on the side the 82. Coda series number = 59. 82+59= 141. S10e10 will be series number 141.”

This may not entirely fit into what I said above, but maybe we’ll learn what happened to the fire truck, or just what happened during the missing 17 days, in episode 10x10? No idea. Just a thought.

This is more general, but in terms of episode structure, consider this: Beth disappeared in ep 8 and the music box woke up in ep 10. I know Connie won’t technically disappear until ep 9 but the catastrophe leading to it happened in ep 8 and Beth was technically in 5x09. So having Connie “show up” again in some capacity in ep 10 makes sense. Just saying.

One more note: given that we are already experiencing a death fake out for Connie, and that I think she’ll end up where Beth is, and by extension, where Rick is, it has occurred to me that she might be the third pickle resurrection, rather than Ezekiel.

Maybe.

Overall, I still lean toward Ezekiel. Why? Well, mostly because he’s one of the four death fake out couples. And while I love Connie, she’s not AS mainstream a character as Ezekiel. I don’t think she’s had enough time on the show, enough depth of character to qualify as the 3rd pickle resurrection. But I also mentioned Jerry because of the shoe thing in this episode. And of course Heath and Jadis/Anne are still missing as well. So there might be several minor character returns that go along with the three big ones. But I still think overall the big ones will be Beth, Rick and Ezekiel. We’ll just have to wait and see.

Okay, other predictions.

Episode 14:

As I said, I’ll talk more about how Carol fits into all of this tomorrow, and there are a lot of ties, but here are some basic speculations about 10x14.

We know people often die in episode 14 of a season. (4x14: Mika and Lizzie; 5x14: Noah; 6x14: Denise, etc.) Some of my fellow theorists have thought for some time that Father Gabriel will die before Beth returns.

Why? Because he’s the embodiment of the Sirius symbol.

Okay, this becomes a really interesting discussion about the Sirius symbolism and the characters who embody it. Remember the Sirius symbolism has to do with dogs, stars, and having only one eye. I can’t think of a character who embodied the Sirius symbolism in 5b, after Beth was shot. Noah, perhaps. Honestly, nothing about him screams Sirius to me. Other things to do with Beth symbolism? Yes. But Sirius, not so much. Although there is that shot of him looking at the blue dog collar in Them after they eat the wild dogs.

In S6, Denise showed up. She had both eyes, but there was a motif about her glasses and her being kinda blind. Not to mention, she died by being shot through the eye.Though she didn’t died BEFORE Carl lost his eye, she died soon after. She also saved his life.

At that point, Carl, with his one eye and many ties to Beth, becomes something of a Sirius embodiment.

In S8, Carl dies. And right about that same time, Father Gabriel loses his sight in one eye, in an episode that ALL kinds of callbacks to Still, Alone, and Coda. Since then, he’s been the embodiment of the Sirius symbolism.

See why we suspect he might die before or right around the time Beth reappears?

It’s also interesting to note that he was perhaps the last one to speak her name. He talked to Maggie about her in Them, and while we saw Beth in Sasha’s flashback in that, and since then in the portraits hanging at Hilltop over Maggie’s desk, no one has actually said Beth’s name since FG did in Them.

In other words, the last person to have spoken Beth’s name is now the embodiment of the Sirius symbolism.

Other stuff on episode 14:

It’s important to note that we don’t KNOW any of this stuff about episode 14. People in the fandom are simply speculating on it. We know there will be an episode entitled “Look at the Flowers” and given that that phrase was so heavily emphasized in 4x14 with the girls, it would make sense for it to be the title of 10x14.

This from @wdway:

“People have been speculating for the last couple of months that episode 14 will be the episode at the hospital that was used in Slabtown. We also have had sightings of the King in the city which makes people think it might have to do with the story line that has been set up with his thyroid condition.

I want to show you a shot that's taken from earlier this season where the king is on the Hilltop radio waiting for Carol to come and he's going to tell her about his condition but before she gets to the radio he stops and leaves. This is a shot of the radio.

Look up the number at the top the very top one is 145. Now we know that the comic book issue of 45 is when Andrea wakes up from being shot in the head. And here's the radio set at channel 145 and the King is about to talk to Carol and it's concerning a medical issue. You probably know what I'm about to say serie number 145 will be S10e14.”

To me, this also backs up the idea of Ezekiel’s death fake out. The 145 ties directly to Andrea’s death fake out in the comic books.

I’ll end there. I think I’ve rambled enough for one day.

Disclaimer: I wrote this over a week ago, before Ep 9 even aired. So yes, I know that due to spoilers, some of the stuff I’ve written above is already invalid. For example, it doesn’t look like we’ll see Connie in 10x10 or find out anything about the missing 17 days.

I didn’t want to change anything in this post, partly because I’m lazy 😋 and partly because, as far as these being possibilities we’re considering, they’re still valid, even if they don’t happen in this coming episodes. Just think of them as food for thought.

So, thoughts? 😉

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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kiss-my-freckle · 4 years

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I think Liz is gonna push back and parallel with Constantin, realizing she wasted years of her life because everything was a lie. I think everything they’ve said and shown of Tom from S5 - S7 was done for the sake of it. Tom’s go-box. Literally hasn’t been shown since 1x6, but they pull it out during the very storyline that JB said takes us back to the first season. Not a coincidence. Red & Cassandra and their purposeful conversation. Liz is still in danger because of Tom Keen.

A purpose for everything.

Agnes: Mommy, who’s that funny-looking man? Liz: It’s a long story. But we finally have time to tell it.

Red’s “long story” has already been told. This woman’s “long story” hasn’t been. Push back to 3x17 for Tom and Gina because it’ll be 5 years in S8.

Tom: Actually, Gina did, but that’s a long story. Look, what I want you to know is that it happened because I made it clear that I’m out. I’m done with those people and that life. But there are things that I did, and… and… and I might be done with those things, but I can’t promise you that those things are done with me. And I can’t promise you that it’s not gonna happen… tomorrow or next week or… or five years from now.

Gina and Tom will follow in my Tom domino theory. That’s why Tom’s go-box is being pulled now. Because he framed Gina with her own marked go-box when he framed her for Fokin’s murder.

#Anti-Tom Keen #Anti-Keen2

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kendrixtermina · 5 years

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GOT S8 E4 reactions

Though I was surprised at first I think that it was a pretty good idea to conclude the Night King plot in episode 3.

Big apocalyptric plots by their very nature band people together - anyone with even a shred of good will typically put aside their differences to oppose them. But in that sense they’re also a covenient plot device

The magic prophecy story is over, which means that no one is guaranteed victory at this point, there is no more Obvious Righteous Side so the characters will be driven to pursue more of their own interests - we’re in the real of humans vs humans rather than heroes vs monsters now.

Poor Gendry. But it’s also very much IC for Arya. They’d have better chances if he were still a random blacksmith. She clearly does like him, but she has other priorities now particularly while Cersei still lives

So inevitably Jamie x Brienne finally happened

I hear some ppl were upset about the virgin thing comming up - but i mean they were basically drunk and joking around and it’s clearly potrayed as that they went too far and said something she was actually sensitive about, particularly since Tyrion, for all his virtues, has always been something of an unapologetic arse

It’s an interesting dynamic here that Danaerys expects everyone to give John the chosen one treatment (and Sansa to push for that) precisely because she understands where Sansa’s coming from and how she ended up in her own psition

Sansa has actually become a feared major player

It also kinda put her at odds with John’s idealistic tendencies

I appreciate the overall concordant but subtly different reactions between Arya and Sansa

Back after s7 I thought Jamie would possibly be the to to axe Cersei but now it seems he’s completely calmed down and is just gonna settle down and chill with Brienne just being knights and stuff. I guess his desire to regain his

Jon iosn’t the type to openly rave about it but you can see in subtle ways how he’s starting to get another identity crisis

Tyrion is kinda right that the marriage might be the best way to resolve this neither of them should want more war - though I Daneariys would definitely fight tooth and claw this has been her entire life.

HOLI CASSEROLI that poor Dragon died in like five seconds

I mean we saw Euron do that magic water things so I was expecting him to be a higher weight class but then in season7 that didn’t materialize at all but here it is

And of course he baitrs her right into his crosshair AND into running away and destroying what was left of her hype. He’s good at provoking people gotta give him that

The aesthetic of the iron fleet is on point alll the weapons look like tentacles

This was rather swift and efficient

Noo not Missandei. Though I guess she jinxed it when she mentioned going back home

She’s been with Danaerys since the very start. This is the worst possible blow Euron could’ve landed

I’ll miss her pretty hair

I CALLED IT Cersei fucked Euron only to slip him the baby

Isn’t that going to be out the second the baby comes out blond tho?

SHE LIVES! I did not expect that. At this point NOT killing missandei was the bigger plot twist. Cersei is gonna torture her like no tomorrow tho

If Dany finds out she’ll go ballistic

She’s already ballistic and that’s not a good thing. She might turn Varys and Tyrion against her

Ironically this might be because she’s losing faith in her own hype. She’s NOT the one destines heir.

They’re walking right into Cersei’s and Euron’s trap.

In the end Varys has been at this for longer he’s not attached to anyone in particularnor does he have any notion of a personal redemption caught up in there

Jaimie jaimie WHAT ARE YOU DOINGGG

Ah. After all the crap hes done he doesn’t believe there can be salvation for him innit? Heck he probably feels this more strongly after being around genuine good people (like Brienne) for a while

Gah it hurts to see her like that after she actually let her guard down for once

But it’s actually pretty heartwrenching like - He could CHOOSE to be good and live his own life for once but he just doesn’t think it’s possible

It’s not like he was magically going to stop being fucked up because he fucked someone else tho

But like admittng his wrongdoings was a necessary step - but he got stuck there

Still. GAAH. Even if he doesn’t get himself killed he probably destroyed what chance he had of a normal honorable rest of his life

You can tell that Tyrion ALMOST got through to Cersei but he hasn’t seen her in a while and she has changed

I KNEW she was going to do that from the moment she brought Missandei out on the platform with her, I suppose it was too good to be true

Kudos to the cast for all the “incredulous facial twitch” reactions

Obviously one big question here is “What will Jon do” if anyone can talk sanizty into Danearys its him but if she refuses to be persuaded she’ll have basically doomed herself by her own hand.

#got #game of thrones

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twdmusicboxmystery · 7 years

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Analyzing Sneak Peeks - They’re SO Giving Me the TD Tingles!

Good morning! First let me say that it doesn’t look like I’ll get the Titles meta up until next week. My apologies. I’m still wrestling with it, and there’s just so much going on this week with the premiere so close.

Yesterday, my FB group was just afire with all the stuff we saw in the recently-released sneak peeks. They make me super-happy, so I wanted to go over them with you.

First there’s this sneak peek. Watch it here:

Yeah, a certain dark ship is freaking out about the hug, but whatevs. As I said in my group yesterday, Daryl seems utterly uninterested. But that’s not even what I want to talk about here. What caught my attention is the dialogue. After the hug, Daryl says, “It’s gonna be fun.” Carol answers, “No it isn’t.”

Sound familiar? It should:

That’s the exact same phrasing used in Still. And no one’s talked about killing walkers being fun or not fun since Beth and Daryl did. This whole thing FEELS a lot like Operation Lead the Walkers Away in 6x01, but they didn’t say anything like this in S6.

Other things in this sneak peak:

When we first see Morgan walk toward the group, there’s a crashed, upside-down car behind him. Despite being upside down, it STILL has it’s trunk open. What are the odds of that?

Side Note: Also notice the fire hydrant on the left. There are actually 3 in this scene. The other two are in the other direction. One on the left of the red car (which is red, but looks a lot like the one Carol drove when Rick exiled her from the prison in S4) and the other in the distance on the corner.

What block has 3 fire hydrants so close together? Goes back to the Daryl = Fire, Beth = Water Theory.

I’m curious about Tara’s line: Pleasure doing business with you. Not sure what it means or if it’s even a TD thing. It’s just an odd thing to say at a time like this. It has the ring of a deal, like the way things are run at Grady or the Sanctuary. Or even the prisoner exchange?

Daryl’s, “Better than letting things be though, right?” just reminds me a lot of, “We might as well do something.” Even if it’s not an exact dialogue parallel.

Same when Carol says, “It’s started.” And Daryl says, “Yeah, it was always gonna be that way.” Kind of like, “It went the way it had to, the way it was always going to.”

Onto the next promo.

This one’s way crazier. Watch it here:

Okay, so let me just go over the symbols I’m seeing quickly and then we’ll talk about the super-important ones we can really sink our teeth into.

There’s the clock, which I’ll come back to.

Purple flowers by the bedside. This mirrors the purple flowers Rick saw in 1x01, as well as the ones Maggie saw when she woke up at Hilltop in 7x05. Tons of Beth parallels there.

There’s a repeat sign in the metal work.

Kind of like we saw in the trees here:

Kinda points to Oceanside maybe? Although we do also see them around Morgan and the mailboxes a lot. Actually, given the clock stuff you’ll read below, I’m wondering for the first time if this could represent the V-shape of the clock hands.

I like that Daryl sends a message with an arrow. Not sure how to interpret that yet, but I think it’s interesting. I think Daryl is showing lots of self-control by NOT shooting Dwight just like Dwight did to Denise. And for the record, watching Dwight look terrified when the arrow hits, I almost feel like it’s a death foreshadow for him. Who knows when he’ll die–maybe not for a long time–but I wonder if they’ll kill him just like he killed Denise?

We see him through the spokes of a bike. (X, X, X) And even the “tomorrow” on his note is important. I’ve mentioned it before, but I’ll talk about it more in my Titles meta when I get it posted. In short, we think “tomorrow” = war, but also winning the war and also probably Beth in some way. Again, details coming.

Tara writes in a journal (like Beth’s journal), has red licorice in her mouth (Red Object) and is wearing the sunglasses she found in 7x06. (Linked to Beth’s possible blindness.)

There are school buses in the background when Rick is giving his speech. I’ll come back to that one too.

Okay, that’s most of the small things. Just lots of symbols we’ve seen a lot in recent seasons.

Onto the two BIG Things:

1. School Bus Parallels.

Just a few bars of a song are played at the beginning. It sounds a bit like an Irish jig, but M-Nonny was able to identify the song as a parody of “Another One Bites the Dust” done by Weird Al. It’s called, “Another One Rides the Bus.”

I’m sorry? The bus? As in School bus parallels? (X, X)

Two thing about this:

1) In S4, Maggie thought Glenn was on the school bus. He wasn’t. They did a minor death fake out for him. It turned out he was back where they’d originally come from at the prison. No one knew he was back there or thought to look for him there. Massive Beth parallels there, because they went back looking for her in a car, but she was back at Grady, where they’d come from. No one thought to look for her there. Chances are they circled out from the car, just as Bob said they’d made circles out from the bus, looking for Glenn.

2) The other major bus they used was the one Abraham and Team D.C. took toward the capital in 5x05, Self-Help. Remember that this bus had the same license plate as the car that kidnapped Beth in Alone. That bus was headed to D.C. So “another one rides the bus” suggests some other character we haven’t see that fits into both these molds. In other words, Beth.

2. Let’s talk about this damn clock. Did it strike anyone else as SUPER suspicious?

First of all, we’ve seen this time before. In 7x06, at Oceanside, Cindy looks at a clock that reads the same time: 8:22. In terms of episodes, that points to 8x04, which is the episode I personally think Beth will show up in. But it’s SO much more than that.

It’s an upside-down mirror image of the clock from Still. Look:

In Still, the clock’s hands point out and up. The time is 2:52, which is 8 minutes before the hour. Remember that it says this time the first time Beth and Daryl pass it. After going into the gift shop room, where Beth puts on her yellow polo (escape), they pass the clock again and it chimes the hour, which means 8 minutes have passed. Probably an indication that things will come back around in season 8.

This clock that we saw Oceanside and now in this sneak peek has hands that mirror the Still clock, but they point out and down, with the time at 8:22, or 8 minutes before the half hour. Not entirely sure what that points to, but no way it’s a coincidence, especially as we’ve seen it twice now. Could mean something big for 8x06, or for the MSF (8x08) which is half way through the season.

Either one works as ep 6 would mirror 6x06, Always Accountable and 7x06, Swear, which were both super-heavy on the Beth symbolism. And of course the MSF could also potentially be big. Not only bc it’s the MSF, but also it will be exactly 3 (Rule of Threes) seasons after Coda, and it’s also the second date listed on the headstone in Alone. All of which make me happy.

@bluesandbeth also noted that this clock had no second hand. What came to mind for me is the clock from 5x09. This one:

@paolo_pedini (IG) told me that the red dial there isn’t a second hand. (I wouldn’t have even thought about it on my own.) If you watch, it doesn’t move. It stays in place. It has something to do with the fact that this is an alarm clock.

So this clock from the sneak peek mirrors the clock BETH CONTINUALLY STARES AT in 5x09, in that there is no second hand.

But look at this clock in 5x09 more closely. Yes, it is a different time. It says 5:10, not 8:22. But if you look at it, including the red hand, it points to three of the four directions we’ve had indicated here. We have one roughly on the two (ten after the hour), roughly on the 4/5, and roughly on the 8. The only one we’re missing is the one pointing to the 10.

Not sure how to interpret that, but maybe as an “in-between”? The clocks prior to Beth being shot (the one in Still and the 10:10, Get Well Soon on her wall) point upward. All the clocks in 5x09 point to 5:10 (which also point to the episode where the music box wakes up) and now in S7 and S8, the clock hands are all pointing downward. Do what that what you will.

M-Nonny also pointed out that we see presentations of the positions these hands point to in the second hand of Beth’s ticking clock in Slabtown.

See? The meaning of these clocks is SO much more complex than we ever realized!

I also looked into the Westclox brand. It’s a company that’s been around a long time. Since pre-WWII. They’re best known for their alarm clocks and, wait for it, pocket watches. Glenn anyone? Also, randomly, their headquarters was burnt down back in 2010. The work of two arsonists, who were convicted. No idea if that went into the planning, but Still didn’t air until 2014. Beth and Daryl would qualify as two arsonists in Still. And then there’s The Arsonist’s Lullaby. Now that brand of clock is being shown, front and center, in S8. Just saying.

Just gonna throw in the 8 here in the background (on the black back pack on the right side of the picture) while Beth plays, still sings, and looks at the 5:10 alarm clock.

(Creds to a Nonny in my inbox who I haven’t answered yet for pointing this out to me. 😉💖)

Okay, that’s basically all I have. If you’re anything like us in the Safe Zone, you should be freaking out about now. Happy Saturday, Everyone. ;D Episode 1 tomorrow night!

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #bethyl

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twdmusicboxmystery · 7 years

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Suspicious Pre-S8 Promos (Part 1)

Good morning! I'd planned to post my titles meta today, but I had a book launch this week and my schedule has been super-crazy. I'm working on it and it will probably be ready in the next couple of days. So I'll definitely get it posted before the premiere, but it's just getting pushed by a few days.

Meanwhile, let's talk about a couple of suspicious promos. Most of you have probably seen these. Both have been discussed in my FB group, so I figured I might as well share.

1. Commerical Promo focusing on Daryl.

I first saw it last week while watching Fear. (Others in my group said they'd seen it before, so apparently I was a little bit late to the party. ;D)

youtube

Here is my analysis, copied and pasted from my original FB post in our group:

So, I just saw a REALLY interesting promo for TWD S8.

I watched Fear and then left the TV on while I worked on a post for tomorrow. It was on my DVR so I went back and recorded it for you guys. A few things jumped out at me about it, specifically about the last scene they show with Daryl and Negan.

1) Yeah it's probably a foreshadow of this arc continuing for Daryl in S8, but we know that's a direct mirror of Beth saying to him, "You've got to stay who you are." So they're using a mirror of Beth's dialogue that obviously affected Daryl in a big way to promote S8.

2) If you just look at that last scene of him and Negan, it reminds of promos they did during S5. Does everyone remember those? They would use small clips of important character interactions to promote the coming season. Specifically, they used Beth and Daryl a LOT to promote S5. I remember seeing ones of Daryl whaling on the walker in the golf club. And they had one of them fighting outside the moonshine shack. TD took issue with that because it didn't make sense for them use Bethyl to promote the new season if she was just gonna die. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember them doing these kinds of promos during S6 or S7. So my point is, they're doing these kinds of promos again, AND they're using a (granted, more subtle, but still) Beth and Daryl moment to do it.

3) While they don't show any Beth stuff in scenes leading up to Negan (mostly their shots of him aiming his crossbow at stuff) it DOES show a quick scene from Consumed, when he was looking for Beth, and it most definitely does not focus on Carol. We kind of see the back of her head, but the focus is on Daryl. And I thought about that scene. It's where he "helps" Noah by shooting the walker that's trying to eat him. He did it because Carol wanted him to, not because he wanted to help Noah. Then Noah was the reason Beth was shot (she went back to hug him bc he gave in to Dawn's demands). I just think it's interesting that this is the shot they chose.

Thoughts?

Super-suspicious, if you ask me. Onto the next suspicious promo.

2. Michonne Pic:

A couple of reasons this is suspicious:

1. The leaving people behind line. Given that we're pretty sure Beth was left behind, it's interesting that they're using this to promote S8.

2. This arc with Michonne from S6 is really very finished. She said this to the people she was with in the pet shop in 6x03 (*coughs Grady/Pet Shop parallels*). Annie died, but Heath and Scott made it back to Alexandria. There’s not really anything unfinished in that arc for any of the characters. So why bring this quote from it back up?

About the only other thing I can think of that this MIGHT be about besides Beth is Heath. After all, he mysteriously disappeared in a car after getting separated from the people he was with (Tara) and no one has seen, heard from, or said his name since.

Oh wait…who else is that true of?

3. The other suspicious thing about this promo is what else is happening in the narrative at the time. It comes from 6x03, which is both the episode featuring David/Betsy who parallel to Daryl/Beth, and is also the beginning of Glenn's fake death. Let's face it, Glenn was also left behind for a time and then miraculously turned up alive. Just saying.

So yeah. Just two promos I’ve been wanting to tell you guys about, in case you hadn’t seen them.

Thoughts?

P.S. Check out Part 2, which is about suspicious interviews Emily has done lately.

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance

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twdmusicboxmystery · 7 years

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Eugene’s 8 Ball Reference and What it Means for TD

Good morning, All! How was everyone’s weekend? Good I hope. So today I want to focus on a pool reference from the show. There have been several metas about this lately. @bethgreeneprevails has an especially good one HERE. Make sure and check that one out if you haven’t.

But I wanted to focus on one reference she didn’t mention in her meta. It’s not an actual pool table or game that we see. It’s a dialogue reference. In 6x01, in one of the black and white flashbacks, we see the group pouring over a map, planning Operation Lead the Walkers Away. Eugene comes up with the idea to use the big metal plates to help turn the walkers west at the intersection.

Eugene: “It’d help disperse the force of impact and direct the walkers clean. Like a pool table. Eight ball, corner pocket.”

Now, I am not much of a pool player. I think I’ve played twice my entire life and it’s been years, so I had to research the game a bit. For those who, like me, don’t know much about the game, here are the basics:

In the U.S., the most commonly played pool game is 8-ball. The idea is that each player has a set of balls (stripes or solids) and has to sink all of their balls into a pocket, followed by the 8 ball, to win. There are various rules for turns, who gets to go when, etc., but basically whoever sinks all their balls and then the 8ball first, wins.

The 8-ball is very important. It MUST be sunk last in order to win. Sinking it before the rest of your balls are sunk is illegal. It doesn’t usually result in you losing the game, but there are penalties, and you simply can’t do that. If at any point, you sink the 8 ball into a pocket other than the one you’ve indicated, it’s an automatic loss. (Usually. Rules do vary depending on where and what version you’re using.)

My point is that the 8 ball is literally the endgame.

So back to Eugene. He’s talking about re-directing the walkers at the intersection of Marshall and Redding. Remember the walkers kind of bounced off the metal plate wall they set up before heading in the new direction, away from the community.

So, I think Eguene’s “corner pocket” reference was to show that. It’s not uncommon in pool to bounce one ball off another to make a shot, especially if there’s a ball in the way of the pocket you’re going for. He’s talking about using the corner of the pool table to specifically redirect the ball. Makes sense for what they’re talking about, yeah?

But why the 8 ball? Okay, it is the most important and maybe most obvious ball number in pool, so maybe that’s why. And not playing much pool myself, some of the jargon is, no doubt, lost on me. But in this case, they’re saying that the 8 ball is specifically the thing that is used to redirect the horde. In other words, to redirect the enemy away from their home. The 8 ball then is the tool or weapon they use to protect their community. But the 8 ball also must remain in play until the end of the game, because it is literally what wins the war. Uh, match.

Yeah. There are a crap-ton of 8s around Beth, people. Even stretching back to season 5. Many of the clocks around her in Slabtown read 8:00. Most of those clocks were in the rooms of patients who had just died.

So the 8 clocks showed that Beth would die in episode 8, which she did. But of course she didn’t stay dead. If she’s 8 ball, she MUST remain in play until the end of the arc. She’s what will win the game for them, even if they don’t know it yet.

And we’ve all said that before: she’ll be TF’s secret weapon. She’ll show up when they need her most, etc.

Most recently, Heath talked about 8 rusty cans of okra, before he disappeared just like Beth did. And of course the last and only time I’m aware of that we saw okra was in s4 and only around Beth and Daryl. I do also think all the 8’s point to season 8. I still think we’ll see Beth at the end of s7, but since the war will be in s8, that’s when the 8 ball will be most in play then. Just works out well that the numbers line up, but then I’m sure that’s what Gimple planned all along.

Oh, and back to Eugene and Operation Lead the Walkers Away? Let’s not forget who was leading that horde: this gal.

Very Beth-ish walker with some interesting shots throughout the episode involving Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham.

Okay, one more quick reference and I’ll be done for today. I won’t talk too much about this but it will tie into my theory for tomorrow. And I have to credit @boltthrutheheart for this. She found it and posted in our FB group. I don’t think I ever would have caught it.

In 4x01 (yes, that’s right: the episode of the first Bethyl hug, where Beth came front and center as a character, and which also kicked off Gimple’s reign as showrunner) there is a pool reference. I went back and watched it myself and I’m seeing more than one interesting thing in this sequence. At the Big Spot, when Daryl and his crew are getting supplies and things go bad? Sasha grabs a pool stick and kills several walkers with it.

I’ll talk about this more on Wednesday, but given what we’re hearing might happen with Sasha in 7b (spoilers) it’s really interesting that she ends up with the pool stick.

Anyway, that’s it for today. Thoughts?

#td #beth greene #beth green lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance

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