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inbarfink · 1 year

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One common Undertale misconception that really frustrates me is when Sans is portrayed with a strong innate sense for RESETs and alternative timelines. Like, that he remembers the RESET timelines better than the other characters who only have occasional feelings of deja vu or even that he can sense when a timeline is RESET.

And that’s, like, almost the opposite of the actual text of the game. While pretty much every main character can have slightly-different dialogue in a Not-True-RESET, especially if the Player had previously befriended them, based on the idea that they have lingering memories/feelings from before the RESET -

Sans has no real dialogue changes based on this conceit. All of his changes are based around noticing Frisk has different reactions based on their memories of the precious timelines.

Other characters do also make observations like that about Frisk, like Mettaton and Toriel. But Sans is distinctive because this is the only way his comments change between RESETs and there are a lot of them from him.

Because that is what really frustrates me about this misconception. People mention it as one more thing that makes Sans cool - but the actual truth is far more badass. Sans is one of the people in the Underground who remembers RESETs the least. I think memory-resistance to RESETs is probably tied to Determination. Flowey, the second-most Determined person in the Underground after Frisk, can remember everything perfectly.

Everyone else has some vague feelings and deja vus. And Sans, he’s the least motivated person in the Underground - both in the sense he’s lazy and in the sense he’s fucking depressed.

That probably means he has very little Determination. Thus, he doesn’t remember anything that happens between RESETs.

And yet, he is still the character most aware of them. Because he has the technological know-how to read and analyze timelines.

And because he has the observation and analytical skill to notice a RESET from other people’s reactions and behavior. Whatever it’s Papyrus thinking he recognizes someone or Frisk’s behavior implying that they know something they shouldn’t have. Sans main RESET-related skill is just being able to identify these moments and come to the correct conclusion about them. And with that he manages to be the most aware character in the entire Underground.

Like, the one point where it might seem like Sans remembers something from a previous Timeline is the Fake Spare scene during his boss battle.

But it’s all pretend. Unlike the previous lines from other characters that I mentioned, this dialogue plays even if the Murder Route is the first time the player touched the game. Sans isn’t remembering anything in this scene. But he makes an educated guess that the Immoral Time God probably tried using their powers for good at first, so they were likely ‘friends’ in a previous timeline. And in most cases, his guess is right on the money - tricking many players into thinking this is another case of the game actually reacting to their past actions.

And as always, Sans can only tell if his lil’ trick worked or not based on the expression of the Player Character.

Arguably, Sans even uses his lack of Determination and cross-RESET memory to his advantage in his boss battle. After all, the whole point of this fight isn’t to kill the Player - Sans understands this is impossible. This is a war of attrition, trying to get the Player so frustrated and annoyed with the unfair fight that they just ragequit or RESET the Timeline. And this war of the Player’s patience versus Sans’ stamina and will is infinitely easier for him when he doesn’t actually perceive all the Player’s previous attempts against him.

Like, for the Player this might be the billion time they go up against him, they’re aware of some of his patterns and tricks now but they’re probably also frustrated and angry and exhausted. Meanwhile, from Sans’ POV, this is still the first time this is happening. He knows it’s not from the Player’s behavior and Frisk’s expression - but he doesn’t feel it like the Player does.

He doesn’t feel the frustration and repetition of the endless stalemate. So he’s always as fresh as a daisy no matter how rugged the Player is getting.

And that’s part of why Sans is so cool in the first place, like, in general. He’s technically the weakest person in the Underground, lacking in every standard evaluation of power in the setting - no ATK, no DEF, no HP, no DETERMINATION. But he’s darn clever enough to overcome these weaknesses and even use them in ways that make them into strengths, enough to be one of the most dangerous and most aware guys in this whole setting.

Sans can’t remember anything, and that makes him awesome.

#undertale #undertale meta #sans #sans undertale #undertale analysis #sans ut

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somegrumpynerd · 1 month

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Do you think it bothers Dust that Killer doesn't seem to have any remorse for doing the same things that haunt him in a very literal way? Do you think it bothers Killer that Dust pretends not to feel anything when he's lost the luxury of feeling? Do you think it bothers Horror to hear that Cross was raised with his Alphys like a sister when his betrayed him? Do you think it bothers Cross that Horror is part of the gang when he still has an au and people to go back to, where Cross feels like he'll never have his again? Do you think Nightmare gets them all happy meals when they've been good?

#UTDR #UTMV #Nightmare sans #Bad sanses #I'm not tagging everybody for this because I turned it silly #It was a lil bit real analysis I just can't be serious for too long or I'll die #I just wonder about potential tension in the gang #And whether or not they all get happy meal toys to play with so Nightmare can have peace for an hour

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elizakai · 3 months

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I like thinking about their more canon adjacent dynamic (character wise)

MINI ANALYSIS TIME

Because while I love the soft interpretations, even WITH those let’s be real; that’s not how they’d act off the bat

Horror would be extremely judgmental (fair) and hate Dust for what he did. He’d despise him and probably be very passive aggressive. Making jabs and making his disdain apparent when they have to interact. I think getting a read on Dust is also difficult and would piss Horror off. Horror is unpredictable and has a sadistic streak, if he was mad or manic and had Dust in a corner he’d have no qualms about manhandling the guy. (And Dust probably wouldn’t do much to stop him.)

Meanwhile, Dusttale’s creator was asked once how Dust may feel if he met Horror, to which they said he feels bad for Horror. He likes him, sees him as someone who went through something horribly undeserved. In my mind Dust is somewhat protective of Horror.

I interpret these clashing of dynamics as Horror’s just utter disdain for this guy, and Dust’s resigned acceptance of Horror’s judgment. He’d agree with him if he were to judge himself, but I think a part of him wants Horror’s approval. He doesn’t EVER expect to get it, but Horror is….

While he’s seen hell, he’s almost a less tormented version of Dust himself. Deep down they are the same. Horror has suffered greatly, but even still hasn’t hit the deep end dust has, and I think he’d want to protect that sort of innocence he’s granted. One could think of it as him protecting a piece of himself he himself has already sacrificed. And wanting APPROVAL from him, wishing to be forgiven, craving that small piece of validation or understanding as he tries to reconcile with himself.

Horror’s formed opinion makes sense, he agrees with it, and simply wishes he disagreed, that he could have proof of himself being a FRACTION worthy of forgiveness or understanding.

The judge in both of them has both formed an opinion of the other, and they happen to differ greatly. Horror sees Dust as an abuser and Dust sees Horror as a victim.

I like to imagine that, while reluctantly thrown into the same general vicinity, Horror would grow to be more understanding (again if we are going with a PROGRESSIVE plot line) and come to understand that, yes, he wasn’t WRONG, but there is nuance to the situation. They both have a very grim understanding of what it’s like to be trapped. I think he has the capacity to understand Dust better if he was given time. His hands aren’t clean after all, and he knows what it’s like to be forced into a situation and to feel backed into a drastic decision. He knows what it’s like to lose your autonomy and to feel your mind break itself under pressure.

I think the simple fact that Dust wouldn’t TRY to change his mind or justify himself would be part of why Horror could come to understand him. He’s devestated by his actions, he is by no means a sadist.

Horror coming to understand Dust and sort of reconcile/forgive him I think would be rather BIG for Horror, especially if you factor in other situations he now has to consider. (For example, his Undyne and her drastic attempt at freeing the undergroud…) reconciling his OWN arguably cruel decisions he has made with pure intentions, when he feels there’s no other choice (like his Papyrus and tricking him into doing something so outside of his beliefs, to protect him)

It would also be healing for Dust to get that reconciliation with Horror because again…Horror’s opinion actually may MATTER.

And in the same way that Dust may see Horror as a sort of person to be protected from further harm, Horror would probably pick up on all of the VERY bad habits Dust has that (in my observation at least) are EXTREMELY similar to his own habits/past habits (isolation, obsession, deprivation, paranoia, bringing harm to self etc) and I could see him being sensitive towards those and trying to prevent it worsening (it’s a sore subject💔) Horror is shown to prioritize taking care of those he cares about, even when he’s a bit mad, and he has the capacity to grow an understanding for someone he doesn’t like initially :))

I think they have potential to be VERY good for one another, Horror (while being fucked up) encourages (and maybe forces) better habits and actually has an opinion that matters to Dust, and Dust is inclined to be VERY loyal (Horror needs someone to show him loyalty.) to anyone who cares to give him the time of day, as it’s far beyond what he’d expect, and he’s got the sympathy/protective streak towards Horror as an actual in character detail.

And from there it would be wonderful to explore their dynamic in whatever way you like to interpret it🤫💥

I could go on but I’ll stop here, if you read this all CONGRATS!!!

Share your thoughts I love it

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megaderping · 1 month

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Undertale's No Mercy Run is vastly misunderstood, as the fandom fixates so much on hyping up the Sans battle that many of the route's brilliant deconstructive elements fall by the wayside. In this video, I go in-depth about the route and the way it functions as a deconstruction of RPG tropes, an exploration of how we as players relate to video games, how it sets up a mirror for the players through Flowey, and also just break down the cool elements and writing in each section of the route in addition to those hyped up moments.

#undertale #undertale meta #utdr #no mercy run #genocide run #sans #papyrus #flowey #undyne #chara #undyne the undying #undertale analysis #video essay #videos #Youtube

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obsessivefangirl · 10 months

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This is incredibly small but I have noticed that Papyrus' mannerisms of speaking is not often replicated. This is not to shame people who don't use it, keep having fun! Hell, I know I write Sans terribly because I am bad at making up puns, so he doesn’t make any, and I refuse to do full lower/uppercase in my writing. But for anyone curious or wanting to sound canon applicable, here's some stuff:

He doesn't shorten anything.

Actually, the brother's speech patterns are rather opposites! Sans slurs, does not enunciate, and will leave letters off.

Papyrus will use full grammer and not contractions, even if it sounds weird.

Papyrus uses quite a few long terms, while Sans uses very simple words.

This isn't speech per se, but Papyrus does like puns! He makes his own. My personal headcanon is he thinks Sans' are just frankly bad ones, but it's actually likely he enjoys Sans' puns

Papyrus is more formal. Sans is informal. We see this with the Japanese version especially with honorifics.

Papyrus will put more exclamation marks and quesrion marks than most.

Examples!

Sans is first, Papyrus second. They also speak in lowercase or uppercase but I can't sustain writing like that 😔

"What's up?" "What is up?"

"Fogetaboudit." "Forget about it!"

" 'm Sans." "I am Papyrus!"

"Dunno." "I don't know!"

"Hey bro." "Hello, brother!"

As a rule of thumb, Sans puts less care in his words, while Papyrus, like everything else he does, will put 110% in it. Also yes I realize this was meant to be for Papyrus only but Sans is actually a really good place to point to compare.

#undertale #my ramblings #papyrus #sans #character analysis #i mean??? their speech analysis at least #utdr #sans undertale #undertale sans #papyrus undertale #undertale papyrus

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kitkat-the-muffin · 30 days

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Tis a niche of its own

Sorry there is only two female characters, I kinda pulled these off the top of my head and probably missed a ton of other candidates. Reblog with an addition if you have one!

Edit: I forgot to make this poll a week long! Once this poll ends I'll remake it with new additions depending on the results (the characters with the fewest results will be replaced with suggested characters from the notes so be sure to suggest some!) in the meantime tho plz reblog to increase sample size

This follows my own definition of what "Comic Relief" means: A character that is used as a conduit for comedy in a piece of media

Through character studies I have determined that there are 5 types of comic relief: the Character Relief, the Audience Relief, the Tone Shifter, the Butt of the Joke, and the Slapstick. Characters that identify as "Comic Relief" usually fall into one or more of these categories

Further explanation under the cut

The Character Relief refers to a character who actively makes jokes to be funny in-universe through conscious humor. Examples from this poll would be Sans and Rayla, who go out of their way to make their friends laugh

The Audience Relief refers to a character who makes the audience laugh regardless of their impact on the story. Examples from this poll would be Lapis and Gus, who are often involved in comedic bits meant for audience entertainment that aren't acknowledged by the narrative as anything unprecedented

The Tone Shifter refers to a character who makes jokes to relieve tension and shift the tone of a scene, either consciously or unconsciously. Examples from this poll would be Jay and Leo, as they both consciously make jokes about grim situations to help their friends or family feel better. Additionally, Jay would do this unconsciously before his trauma made him start doing it on purpose

The Butt of the Joke refers to a character who is made fun of by other characters in-universe, whether endearingly or not. Examples from this poll would be Dewey and Lance, who are often met with insults whenever they do something wrong or silly. The insults are usually meant to be endearing and comedic, but they can still feed into the character's possible inferiority complex. This also applies whenever a villain hits them with a sick burn*

The Slapstick refers to a character who is made fun of by the narrative and the audience like a punching bag. Examples from this poll would be Sokka and Yusuke, who are sometimes put in troubling and awkward situations as a gag for the audience's entertainment alone. These gags are not fun for the characters yet delightful to watch

Most comic relief characters can be characterized as multiples of these. For example, Jar-Jar from Star Wars is both Slapstick and Audience Relief, and even if you don't find his jokes funny that doesn't change the fact that they were written with your entertainment in mind

If you're curious how a "The Narrative's Favorite (derogatory)" character would fit into this chart, they're likely both a Butt of the Joke and a Slapstick character, making their life absolute hell. To be honest, MK from Monkie Kid is an example of a character who fits all 5 categories, but he isn't blue so he isn't in this poll

*Ok if you've ever seen Phineas and Ferb Mission Marvel let me just say MODOK is a total Butt of the Joke and my favorite line in that special is when a TV announcer calls him a "Giant Chicken Egg with a Face" and I just had to mention that omg

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bonefall · 5 months

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while i do agree with the sentiment that bloodclan should be more nuanced as an entity i still believe it is wrong to portray them as the necessary "response" to clan injustice (haven't read the books in years but i am pretty sure that bloodclan started with no connection to the clans) / an opposition to the clan's flaws. some of the thing scourge did was out of selfishness and bloodclan isn't the other colour of the black and white debacle with the clans. the clans are heavily flawed yes, but it isn't realistic to completely say that their structure had no redeeming qualities altogether and that all outsider groups is fundamentally better than the clans.

all clans and groups are flawed in their own way and i believe we shouldnt brush past the things that other groups (the sisters and what they do with their toms *cough cough*) did solely to be able to degrade the clans and their culture.

Buddy, you're setting up a strawman. I promise you that if you look into the reduxes I've made of BloodClan, Guardians, The Sisters, and the Tribe, you will see that I don't make any of them a "flawless" alternative to Clan life.

Nor do I say that the Clans have no redeeming qualities. In fact, you can browse the "Clan Culture" tag to see the various expansions I've made to show how these traditions, values, and technological advances make Clan life so alluring.

The overarching theme of BB is that the nature of culture is change. For better AND for worse.

With respect, I think there's something insidious in the wording of "the things the other groups did." We're talking about fan responses to a work that consistently demonizes and degrades foreigners to make the Clans look like the "best way to live," justifying xenophobia. These are not real groups, they are writing choices.

In the franchise with some pretty extreme examples of misogyny, the authors said "What if bizarro world where women rule and have no men... woag..." and only includes a single Clan-alligned member of this culture, with a BAD opinion of them, who can't even do his diplomatic job because he HATES them so much.

In the same franchise that shows Fireheart getting bullied, facing prejudice, and fighting a murderous tyrant who publically executes a mixed-race character, their endgame villain is an outsider, like him, but this one IS a godless heathen who HATES love and friendship and banned families.

In the VERY same franchise which made its first non-malicious group barely able to get through an arc without needing to be saved by Clan cats, totally unable to defend themselves, framed as "whiny" for not wanting their clearly 'inferior' culture to be forcefully changed.

And I'm re-stating all this because, again, no offense to you in particular Anon, but I've been seeing a few people with a sentiment like yours lately. Complaints into a vacuum that don't make targeted critique of anyone's fanworks, gesturing at this broad "woobification" which is apparently out there somewhere over the rainbow, saying things like "well Scourge is selfish" or "well Moonlight abandoned her 13 year old" as if we haven't BEEN knew.

As if we're not all directly responding to these choices. As if I haven't written ESSAYS on this topic.

Since this was about BloodClan in particular though, and you admit you haven't read the books in years, please go back and actually read Rise of Scourge before trying to make critique of the ways fanon rewrites its origin. It's EXPLICITLY a response to the Clans, in the text, that the Erins wrote, it is canon that fanon is working with.

And you want people to take that out and approach it a different way... why? Because it's so incredulous to you that a nation forms in response to a threatening neighbor? That a common enemy through invasions is a way that people might choose to unite, and encourage their new culture to value brutality? Because you don't like the idea of Clan Culture's XENOPHOBIC BATTLE CULTURE affecting surrounding communities??

Could YOU, maybe, be doing this "woobification" thing I keep hearing about? Can I play this stupid game too? What's our stupid prize? Can it be a lollipop? Do we get stickers

TL;DR, ok.

#bone babble #Warrior cats analysis #Warrior cats fanon #Bloodclan #''Ok yes scourge is practically cold war era xenophobic stereotypes and i understand that is a part of canon you dont like.''#''But have you considered. Hes mean''#Yes. Yes i have considered it.#If I get another take like this in my inbox im gojng to fucjing add a scene where he kisses babies and looks at the screen and says #'Mmm wowow thank u for the babygirl juice fire star :)'#JUST to annoy them #People gonna be funny to me? Im about to be Hilarious.#Also ANON just to be clear im annoyed because like. Ive been seeing this around.#Sadly today you are the Genocide Frisk to my Angry Sans u.u #I am taking ur ask and turning it blue and smashing it against walls #Man it would be cool to have bone themed powers... i am a bone guy...#But anon you're fine. Just like. Think about what I said ok?

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deargodhelpmeaaa · 1 month

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A comparison between Berdly and Papyrus.

Papyrus and Berdly both are over the top, emotional, egocentric characters, and have many simularities, but also many differences, and that's what I want to talk about today.

The first is that that Papyrus wants people to love him, but values himself a lot and wants to leave meaningful impacts on the lives of other people. He believes in himself and his abilities despite everything going against him.

Berdly, too wants to be loved, but he does not value himself and tries to act smart because he believes that if people see him as intelligent, they will value him. Without his intelligence, however, there is nothing to value. He does not believe in himself, and even after all the studying he does, he still doesn't even consider himself as intelligent.

That being said, Papyurs also might be putting up a facade. For instance, he will change his opinions on things sometimes to get people to like him more, as seen in this phone call dialogue:

"Papyrus: GRILLBY'S? WE'RE TOO REFINED FOR THAT GREASEHOLE. Undyne: WOAH, if you go, you HAVE to try the cheese fries. Undyne: They're AMAZINGLY bad for you!! Undyne: Oh, sorry, Papyrus, were you saying something? Papyrus: JUST MONOLOGUING ABOUT MY LOVE FOR GREASE!!!"

Which is very much so a symptom of someone who puts up a facade, meaning that if he had been congratulated for something he considered a part of his intelligence, could Papyrus start acting like Berdly?

No. I don't really think he would. Papyrus is sweet. He'd probably be more encouraging of others to get smarter, too. I think he'd help everyone be smart, instead of trying to put himself on top like Berdly does. Like, yeah, he might say like "One of these days you'll be as smart as The Great Papyrus himself!" or some shit. This is because Papyrus opens his heart for everyone. He has faith in everyone, and this facet of his character can be seen in his neutral ending and death.

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Papyrus works hard to be what he is and understands the value of self improvement. He has some genuine talents, too! Berdly works hard, too, but doesn't see himself improving at all. He sees himself as just inherently worse and more forgettable than everyone else, crumbling at the forces working against him.

This is why he gets so excited about Susie, when he's told that he can make mistakes, taking it as that he should be stop trying to be smart all together.

Still, he doesn't value himself, taking her and Lancer's words as that he should reject pretending to be what he's not, and instead be what he thinks he truly is: stupid.

Both characters have an inferiority complex: Papyrus gets less attention than his brother, Sans, and Berdly saw himself as being "forgettable" prior to winning the spelling bee, and also acknowledges that he isn't as smart as he acts like, and that Noelle is "the real smart kid."

Both characters lack friends, and are bad at picking up on social cues.

Both characters get tricked or manipulated (Papyrus by Flowey and Berdly by Queen).

Both are brave.

Papyrus is loved, however the people who love him (Undyne and Sans) coddle him, and he's kind of treated like an idiot. Berdly's situation is kind of the opposite.

Berdly is not loved by anyone, and doesn't really know what it is even like to be loved, and it gets to the point that he mistakes any form of affection for romantic affection. This can be seen in how he assumes Noelle has a crush on him, his random crush on Susie that lasts until the end of the chapter, or how he thinks Kris is hitting on him when you check up on him after the Queen bossfight.

This can be seen most vividly when the major turning point in his life is being congratulated by his peers for winning a spelling bee.

His relationship with Queen seems to parallel his relationship with his yet to be seen mother, as he is ignored, unloved, and seen as annoying. So, of course he has a low self worth, and of course he tries to pretend to be something he's not to get the love he craves, because without his smarts, what is he?

His closest friends are Kris and Noelle. He talks down to Kris constantly, as a means of showing off to them and proving himself as their better. He does care about and enjoy their company, and they seem to like him enough to want to play videogames with him, and are clearly upset by his death. Noelle is not that close to him, but sees the best in him, and while she finds him annoying, she still cares about him.

I also think that their friendship might not last? He actually thinks of a theoretical life without her in the future, stating, with finality:

Berdly also indicates that he really adores Noelle.

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He doesn't just love her because she's his only friend. He doesn't just love her because she's the one helping him with his studies. He just loves her for who she is. He cares about her deeply, but he understands that their friendship won't last forever, or at least he thinks that it won't. Poor thing.

It may be because he has little to no support system that Berdly is a lot less willing to see the best in others, and more apt to try and prove himself as their better, as he does with Kris. Papyrus on the other hand, has a better support system, even if he is coddled (especially by Undyne).

Both characters are able to pick up on when there's something off about someone, but Berdly's course of action, seeing as how he doesn't look for the best in others like Papyrus does, is a bit different. He actually takes a stand against the player when he sees them acting strange.

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The player, who mind you, is controlling one of his only friends.

This being said, Berdly is still NAIIVE AS FUCK. His reasoning for attacking Kris there was because they were hurting Noelle, who he values deeply, and wants to protect. That's one of his goals in chapter 2: protect Noelle. If you were trying to reach out to him, appeal to his interests and prove yourself as worthy of his admiration, yes, of course he'd agree to do any stupid or terrible thing you told him to do. He'd look past your obvious faults in that situation because he's just that desperate to be loved. He is VERY easy to manipulate and we see this in his relationship with Queen.

In the Snowgrave route situation that leads to his possible death, though, he can't look past your faults. They're right on display for him. He doesn't care that this person is someone he thought of as a friend. Someone he knows and adores is in danger, and he's going to do what he can to protect her.

Papyrus is different. He wants to help you. That's his goal. He just sees the best in you, and wants you to change. He reaches out to help you be better. He wants you to be better because he has faith in you! All of this, after seeing that you have already been hurting other people.

So, both are aware you hurt someone, but both approach the situation differently, because both are fundamentally different characters. In both Berdly's death scene and Papyrus's, we see that they want to help their friend: Berdly wants to protect her, Papyrus wants them to change their ways. Berdly doesn't care about you changing your ways at all. He sees you hurt someone he loves, and he acts. Papyrus sees you hurt people he loves (potential friends/ monsterkind) and he acts.

There's a lot else I could talk about here, but I think you get the idea. Feel free to add onto this or correct me on anything I may have gotten wrong ^^

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asaka-lucy-dr-rc · 2 months

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Analysis of Yuma's Design ①

I don't know if this has already been discussed, but I think Yuma's hairstyle is similar to the earliest design ideas for Hajime (the protagonist of SDR2) and Shuichi (the protagonist of NDRV3).

Hajime had a bob cut in the earliest design. According to Rui Komatsuzaki's comment in the official art book (ダンガンロンパ1・2 Reload 超高校級の設定資料集 -再装填-), he suggested this because he wanted to create a bobbed protagonist. He also commented in the book, "I hope to realise a character design that is cool even with a bob cut (おかっぱでもかっこいい、というキャラクターデザインは、いつか実現したいと思っています)", so I think that Yuma's bob hairstyle is based on Komatsuzaki's hope.

Shuichi's ahoge was thick and curly in the earliest design. This is very similar to Yuma's ahoge design. It seems that it was decided from the beginning that Shuichi would wear a hat when he first appeared, and several hat design ideas were included, one of which is very similar to Yuma's hat. (That's what I drew in my illustration.)

In fact, Komatsuzaki often diverts design ideas he had for different characters. For example, the hood design of Chiaki's cardigan (the character from SDR2) was diverted from the hood originally designed as Nagito's coat (personally, I don't think they're that similar, but Komatsuzaki himself said so in the art book). So I think these are not coincidences, but the result of him hoping to realise the ideas he could not realise in the past.

What I'm trying to say is that even though Danganronpa and RAIN CODE are completely different worlds, what the developers had in mind when making the Danganronpa series seems to be reflected in RAIN CODE, and the characters seem to be somewhat related in that way :)

#my analysis #rain code #yuma kokohead #hajime hinata #shuichi saihara #rui komatsuzaki #Does it seem rude to refer to him as Komatsuzaki?#I myself refer to him as Komatsuzaki-san when I think with my Japanese brain.#But I thought it would be strange to add -san all the way through so I omitted it.#Of course I have great respect for him!#I'm glad he finally realized a bob-cut protagonist.

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sansappreciator · 3 months

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something i like to do sometimes is go to this video and read the comments.

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they are old but some of them are really good

#sans #sans analysis #undertale #i love its raining somewhere else so much

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thatgirl4815 · 6 months

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Ray's Feelings

Ray's process of falling in love with Sand has such nuance to it that I think gets horribly overshadowed by his actions alone, not their context. Yes, Ray mistreats Sand. Yes, Ray has a lot to apologize for. But I think Ray is a broken person who has a lot to apologize for because he's in a situation that he is grossly under-equipped, both mentally and emotionally, to handle.

@victorialovesstiles' post here includes a great discussion of the moment Ray becomes fully aware of Sand's feelings for him in Ep8. Up to this point, I don't think Ray tried to pin down exactly how he felt for Sand because the situation didn't necessitate it. He and Sand were "friends," and that label was always fine with Ray, until it wasn't enough anymore, until Sand couldn't put up with it. Looking back on all of this progression, I'd argue Ray has had feelings for Sand for as long as Sand has had feelings for him, but he hasn't been in a place to confront them the same way Sand has. It makes sense given that Sand is the one in the bad spot, watching Ray chase after Mew. If their situations had been reversed, I think Ray would've had to contend with his feelings much more directly much earlier.

Ray makes comments like this that point to the depth of his feelings, but he never truly vocalizes them outright until later in Ep9. Ray realizing how happy he is with Sand and admitting to that is the first step in the recognition of his true feelings, that he sees Sand as more than a good friend who takes care of him and just so happens to sleep with him.

Ray's feelings are strong, but they are also delicate, as demonstrated by the fight at Sand's apartment in Ep10. This dialogue in particular:

Ray thinks he deserves to be upset for having his emotions played with, which says more than anything how much Ep9 meant to him. It's also important in the context of money, because Ray's self-worth is so heavily influenced by what he can offer other people: if nothing else, he has always had his wealth to fall back on. And here is Sand claiming to love him, but all Ray can see is someone who accepted payment. Every conversation they’ve about the separation of feelings and money is being put into question.

At the end of Ep10, Ray echoes his dialogue in Ep8. I personally like that Ray makes a point of saying how happy he is with Sand; what stands out to me here is that Ray is confessing this to imaginary Sand, so he's technically only really admitting it to himself. He makes me happy and I keep screwing it up. He does care, and he's always cared, but I can't do anything but ruin it. I was made to ruin things. Those are all thoughts that seem to lay at the core of his dialogue at the end of Ep10.

I guess my main point here is that we witness Ray returning to this idea time and time again that when he's with Sand, he's truly happy. Sand sees beyond his problems, beyond the brokenness. Even with how complex their situation is, there's something so beautiful about that simplicity. Sand makes Ray happy. That’s what it’s always boiled down to.

"I know now that you want nothing from me" -> I have a feeling this entire speech from Ray is going to form a deeper trust between Ray and Sand. Ray knows now that Sand is true. He knows that he has overthought everything. The reason why Ray skews the situation with Sand is because Ray is so used to viewing himself in a negative light, but he was clinging to the hope that Sand didn't see him that way. Even when other characters insult Ray for his behavior (which isn't entirely undeserved), Sand was always there to explain why he was wrong, to encourage him to be better. When it's Sand, it's about growth, not just recognition.

The ending scene in Ep10 is such a catharsis because Ray is finally coming to terms with the fact that virtually all of the doubts and complexities surrounding his relationship with Sand were created by him. But Sand has always been true. Sand has always loved him. And now that he sees that, he knows just how important it is that he clings to that love and never lets it go.

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inbarfink · 7 months

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Any analysis of how Undertale deals with Pacifism and how it tries to guide the Player towards it has to take a deep look at Papyrus. Because Papyrus is the one character in the game who will never kill, the one actual ‘True Pacifist’ in the game’s main cast.

I mean, the Player can be an even bigger Pacifist. Papyrus does still FIGHT, and the Player can get through an entire run without draining a single sliver of HP. But… they can also be the world’s biggest murderbastard and literally stab reality to death.

Toriel would very much like to not kill, but she is also fully capable of doing so.

Same with Asgore, but he has a lot more actual blood on his hands. Undyne and Mettaton are both fully 100% willing to kill to accomplish their goals. Sans is non-violent in most runs because he’s too lazy and depressed to do anything, and when he is motivated into actions - it is in the form of a FIGHT to the death. Alphys… the timeline is a bit fuzzy cause both she and Mettaton love lying so much, but it seems like she did sincerely add deadly weapons to Mettaton cause killing humans would make him more 'useful' and then had second thoughts once she developed a parasocial relationship with the Human Child and THEN she and Mettaton started hatching their little play-acting plan. I think??

With Papyrus there is NONE of this ambiguity, we know for sure - no matter what timeline or what may come - The Great Papyrus will always choose MERCY.

And the interesting thing about that is on a Meta-Sense, Papyrus is a very rare example of the game giving MERCY towards the Player.

Because the game starts out being really obtuse with the Sparing mechanic and how it works. If you want to be a Pacifist in Undertale from the get-go, you’re gonna have to work for it. You're gonna have to figure it out on your own and commit to it and believe that it's possible. It's basically a test of your own belief in non-violence and your moral integrity. Then, the RUINS end with the Toriel boss battle - in a way, that’s probably the hardest Sparing puzzle in the whole game. And it’s very very easy to accidentally kill her. (I’d almost say that’s the intention of the battle, to try to goad the Player into Resetting so they can see how the game remembers across RESETs)

And then we have Papyrus, and it’s not just that his ‘Sparing Puzzle’ is something as simple as outlasting him and letting him run out of dialogue - and it’s not just that he’s the only boss that will just give up and let you continue if you lose to him enough times. it’s also that, just as Papyrus is the only boss incapable of accidentally killing the Player - he’s also the only boss that the player is incapable of accidentally killing.

(Okay, fine, to be pedantic, there’s also Asgore)

I mean, the Player can certainly kill him if they want to - but draining Papyrus’s HP just makes him skip through his battle dialogue right to the end of it. It’s designed in such a way that, no matter what Route you're on and no matter what approach you take with Papyrus - you will always end up on this screen.

Unlike basically any other Monster in this game, including the major boss battle just before him - you can’t kill Papyrus accidently. You can't kill him without also having Sparing him as an option. The game kinda treats killing Papyrus as one of the Worst Things You Can Do because killing Papyrus will always be a deliberate, considered action done to a person who will not kill you and who has stopped wanting to FIGHT and has extended a hand of Mercy. With the game clearly communicating what you need to do to Spare him at that moment.

And that means that - even if you killed before, even if you don’t have the patience of a True Pacifist, even if you spent all this time in the game without even trying to engage with the Sparing mechanic… as long as you don’t want to be a Huge Rat Bastard, the game is basically gifting you with the very very easy option to not be. Being a Pacifist in Undertale is usually a challenge - a puzzle to be solved, a test to pass. But as long as you aren’t intentionally trying to be the Worst Person - the game is basically giving you Papyrus.

If you accept his Mercy, you are accepting the game’s Mercy. That sort of benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that maybe all of the LOVE you might have accumulated so far was all due to honest mistakes or panic or an attempt in self-defense. That you still deserve this one chance to prove that you are not intentionally, maliciously cruel - or at least not like the Worst Person in the World. Even if you did kill before, you still deserve at least one friend.

And Sparing Papyrus leads you to his wonderful Hangout/Dating Sequence and to his Phone Calls and they all add so much wholesome charm to the Undertale experience and no matter what happens Papyrus will always think the best of the Player and he will always trust them and it also makes Sans also kinda your buddy by default. And more than just adding a little bit of wholesome charm into even the more LOVE-filled Playthroughs, I think this is meant to try and incentivize these players into trying out the Mercy mechanic a bit more.

Whatever it’s, like, for future playthroughs or Resetting the game right there to try a True Pacifist Run right there and then or just trying to be a little kinder for the rest of this current playthrough - especially since there’s an emphasis about the close friendship Papyrus has with the upcoming boss Undyne, and to a lesser extent with his idol and next-next boss battle Mettaton. It’s like “well, if you didn’t figure out how to spare before, this is how you do it? And isn’t it nice to have a friend? Isn’t it nice to not have to kill this lovable skeleton man? You should do this more often wink wink nudge nudge!”

And it’s like… all of Papyrus’ loved ones care about him so much but they also look down on his pacifism. They see his inability to kill and desire to make friends as simple naivete and that’s why all tend to hide the truth from him all the time. About what will happen to the Human he will capture, about what his new Human friend might’ve done, about the fact that they view him as so naïve.

They admire it on some level, that’s why they want to protect it, but they also see it as a weakness which is why they want to protect it by lying to him all the time. But, you know, Undyne says that if Papyrus goes into battle he’ll be ‘ripped into little smiling shreds’ and that is certainly what happens every time a Player chooses to refuse Papyrus’ Mercy and the game’s Mercy and press that FIGHT button…

But have you thought about all the times that doesn’t happen? All the careless or violent players who were offered that skeletal hand of friendship, accepted it and then carried that offered kindness forward for the rest of the game? All the players motivated to do good for the sake of their buddy Papyrus? All the Murder Routes stopped because the player just didn’t have it in them to kill someone who believes in them so earnestly?

Like, no, it’s not a surefire thing - especially since Papyrus has so much less narrative power than the Actual Unkillable Time God that is the Player. But it happened, and it happened many many times to many players. Papyrus offered Mercy, the game offered Mercy. And much like Frisk’s Pacifism, it comes from a place of seeing the honest goodness in your ‘enemy’ and can inspire them to become a better person - this little sparkle of goodness being passed forwards.

And I think that’s beautiful, even if it didn’t happen in every timeline. Any potential future where Papyrus’ kindness can have such an effect on the Player and thus the entire trajectory of the Underground validates his kindness and pacifism on some level - even if there are also always the potential worlds that it backfires completely.

And there’s also one other way in which the Great Papyrus Proves Pacifism Pays. One that is a bit more practical, perhaps. And one that Papyrus himself is not even aware of.

Papyrus’ boss battle can be a surprisingly challenging one specifically because he is the only one who doesn’t kill the Player.

Like there is a reason why Papyrus will just offer you to skip his Fight after you lose to him three times, because if he didn’t do that - there’s an honest risk that the Player can get stuck in a much stuckier way than anywhere else in the game.

Because, like, for basically any other character in the game, being killed is the Worst Thing that could ever happen to them. For everyone except the actual Player Character because we are an Actual Unkillable Time God and dying is nothing more than a minor annoyance that sets you back to your last SAVE Point. So, leaving aside Papyrus’ admirably kind intentions - there is not much material difference from the Player’s perspective between getting Captured and getting a more traditional GAME OVER. Except…

Except getting Captured does not undo everything that happened in your inventory during the battle. In every other Undertale battle, if you use all of your items but still lose - the GAME OVER at least means you get your stuff back. But because Papyrus doesn’t kill you, any healing item you’ve used during the battle is still used. I have watched so many Undertale Let’s Players waste all of their valuable items on their first Papyrus battle and then have to face him again without them and thus do even worse in their second go… and then their third go... and thankfully then Papyrus offers them to skip the fight.

And while that technically can be circumvented by just manually closing the game and opening it back again on their pre-battle SAVE Point, a lot of players are gonna reflexively Save over it if they pop over to the Shop or the Snowed Inn before their second attempt at the battle. If Papyrus didn’t offer that chance to skip his battle, it could’ve easily become a softlock situation for a huge chunk of players - because he doesn’t kill the Player.

Most of Undertale deals with the value of non-violence from a standpoint of morality and kindness and personal connections. Since most people do die when they get killed. But when dealing with an Unkillable Time God like the Player, Papyrus proves that not-killing might actually be the most practical solution.

Of course, it doesn’t seem like Papyrus is aware of any of this. From his perspective, he is just offering genuine mercy to a being just as ephemeral as he is. But it accidentally turned into one of the most effective methods of blocking the Player’s way… at least he didn’t offer us an opt out so soon after that.

And it’s interesting when comparing him to how his brother Sans - one of the few people actually aware of the existence of SAVEs and RESETs - deals with the Player. Because the Sans boss battle at the end of the Murder Route is entirely based on the concept that death is nothing but an annoyance to the Player. Sans is less trying to kill the Player (the way Undyne the Undying did), he is simply trying to annoy the Player into a ragequit. But he is still killing the Player.

Now imagine a Sans battle where he has all of his usual annoying tricks, but also instead of killing you - he captures you just like his brother would’ve in a happier timeline. And while it’s not a fool-proof plan to stop the Player in their tracks - he could very easily stick them in that sort of softlock situation where they have to battle him again and again without any Healing Items. Forcing them to either abandon the game or RESET the whole world back the way it was - just like Sans wants them too.

But instead, by killing the Player, he is just allowing that perfect second-third-fourth-fifth-sixth-try where they get all of their Stuff back. And he does actually knows that. And why doesn’t he do that? (Speaking here from an in-universe character study perspective. Obviously the Doylist answer is that the game doesn’t want to Softlock you even in the most deliberately-frustrating part of the game).

Maybe, even though he intellectually knows that killing the Player will be of no help - he still does it because he wants to. Because he just wants to get back at the evil murderous monster that took his brother from him and destroyed his entire world even if he knows it’s actually ineffective. And this thirst for bloodshed is, ironically, blinding him from a new exciting way to actually practically stop that murderous bastard who is themself motivated entirely by bloodshed.

Maybe he just can’t do something like that. Reducing an enemy to exactly one HP and then stopping is not a feat anyone else in the game is capable of pulling off - even the ones who would obviously use such a thing (like Toriel or a Player with a Pacifist intentions). Maybe it’s something that requires a lot of hard practice and discipline and carefulness, that Sans never thought to put in because he didn’t see it as a useful skill the way Papyrus did.

Maybe that wouldn’t have worked anyways. After all, and that’s something I kinda touched on in a previous Overly Long Rambly Hot Take - Sans’ War of Attrition against the Player is greatly helped by the fact he can’t remember every single previous try and so he can’t get exhausted the way the Player can get. Obviously, without a GAME OVER induced RESET that will not apply. Which is especially notable because… Sans’ laziness is literally what brings him down at the end of that Boss Battle.

So maybe, while Papyrus, as long as you decline his offer to skip the battle, is capable of offering just the same Battle as before over and over and over again.... It’s possible that Sans just won’t be able to pull off two or three or more battles of the same intensity and difficulty in a row without a RESET to undo his own exhaustion.

But I think it’s at least worth considering the option, y’know? That after all this time of viewing Papyrus’ kindness as sweet-and-yet-kinda-foolish-naïveté - that exact viewpoint made Sans overlook the perfect solution to dealing with his little Murderous Time God problem. Cause he just never considered that while killing might be fully morally justifiable in this situation and very very satisfying, that does not necessarily mean it is actually the most practical solution. And that maybe, in a weirdly twisted way, Pacifism WAS the answer.

#undertale #ut #utdr #under tale #papyrus #the great papyrus #papyrus undertale #papyrus ut #sans #sans undertale #sans ut #sans the skeleton #papyrus the skeleton #undertale analysis #undertale meta #genocide route #genocide run

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