Tumgik
#sansa was right
mizandria · 4 days
Text
people make fun of the "oh you only hate her because she's a WOMAN" crazy feminist mentality but yeah actually you guys do only hate her because she's a woman a lot of times. for every hated female tv character there's ten male tv characters who are a million times worse and still given at least the "intriguing morally grey character" treatment if not straight up praise. for every hated female celebrity in real life there's one hundred famous men who have done worse and don't get half the hate she does.
1K notes · View notes
brucelinas · 10 months
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Sansa doods
2K notes · View notes
atopvisenyashill · 3 months
Text
not to keep harping on but definitely the complaint i see that really sticks in my craw is that the only reason or the main reason robb planned to banish catelyn to seaguard was because of their argument over jon. it’s certainly a factor but they have spent the entire war arguing over every decision robb makes! ned tells robb “keep your mother in your council” but robb really does not! he has her there, yes, he lets her speak, yes, but oftentimes he will disregard her advice without any appeasement, misstep badly, and be worse off politically in the exact way she warned him of. she’s not the only person he blows off - he’s not exactly nice to edmure either, for example - but cat is right when she suspects there’s an element of “kings are not supposed to have mothers” and “wedded to his war" and she clocks this long before the argument over jon! robb tries to get rid of her at the beginning of a clash of kings when all cat has done is urge him to continue peaceful negotiations with the lannisters!
robb is angry because he’s in over his head and he knows it, and it's got very little to do with jon! robb is losing this war and his best friend was the son of a man who crowned himself and lost the war!! robb knows exactly what’s going to happen to the north if he loses and despite everything, he cannot seem to win despite being a near prodigy in battle tactics. and here his mother has been this whole time, fighting him on every front - just like the lords but he cant punish them for disagreeing can he? - and being so frustratingly right about more things than his lords, and now they’re picking at this wound in their family that has never been allowed to heal and a lot of resentment that both robb and catelyn are feeling at their general situation gets focused in on each other. this is such a tully thing too (pls remember these are canonically unpleasant people!) because look at lysa projecting years of resentment onto sansa, look at the entire cat, hoster, edmure situation, or even hoster & blackfish’s relationship. family is so important to them but in times of stress, “doing everything for family” becomes an anchor pulling them down, until the only thing left is to lash out at each other.
most of the lords are happy to let this nonsense play out! catelyn does not even have the privilege maege & dacey mormont do at being head of their own house - she’s just a wife, just a mother, just a first born daughter. when she disagrees, they don’t see an equal arguing with them, they see a woman sticking her nose where it doesn’t belong. they do not give a single solitary shit about like, ~the plight of bastards~ they just believe, like robb, that sansa is currently “tainted” by her marriage to a lannister and can’t be allowed to inherit, that arya is dead, that the boys are dead, that jeyne is not yet pregnant, and a bastard boy castle raised who looks like ned is better than no boy at all (see edric storm, addam of hull, and larence snow). these men have not spent the last fourteen years cooking in their resentment over this situation the way catelyn and robb have!
jon is a reason. but so is rickard karstark, jaime lannister, willem lannister, tion frey, renly baratheon, walder frey, and theon greyjoy. ned is a reason as well, and bran, sansa, rickon, arya, hoster, edmure, perhaps even lysa and sweetrobin. jon is the final straw but robb isn’t (only) sending catelyn away because of some righteous fury on his brother’s behalf! he’s sending her away because she is an easy, socially acceptable target for all his frustrations and failures and fears that he can project on, and punish, in a way he cannot punish his enemies, his lords, or himself.
and catelyn is as always very aware of the deeper motivations in her son’s mind, and resentful that she doesn’t have the power to push back; she’s just a mother, after all.
280 notes · View notes
la-pheacienne · 1 month
Text
Y'all. Probably the most UNIVERSALLY ACCEPTED criticism against grrm is the abundance of gratuitous extreme sexual violence against women in asoiaf. GoT doubled down on that and is endlessly criticized for that. On the ONE (1) INSTANCE where sexual violence was NOT part of a female character's arc in grrm's work, HotD decided to introduce it as a means of giving "nuance" to a story and making a character more sympathetic. And now not only is this not considered a sexist narrative but on top of that you call this an inspired twist ffs I'm gonna eat my hair
97 notes · View notes
jonsastarks · 4 months
Text
my toxic trait is that I have never once thought that sansa bullied arya lol. two sided teasing and fighting ≠ one sided bulling. Sorry!
109 notes · View notes
wodania · 1 month
Text
me talking about the majority of asoiaf characters: THAT IS A CHILD!!! AN INFANT!!! A FETUS!!!
80 notes · View notes
angelhummel · 9 months
Text
the teenage girl character that everyone hates bc omg she's sooo annoying & everyone knows that the worst thing a girl can be is kind of irritating so everyone hates her and thinks she's vile and irredeemable (she's 15) and then the show goes on and her personality changes as she grows up and those same people are like omggg they ruined her character she's so different from how she used to be how could they do this it's such a shame 💔💔
216 notes · View notes
badley · 2 months
Text
really hilarious to me that in asoiaf the two ships most compelling to me is
1. sisterfucker who went through the most traumatising event in his life with tragically straight butch woman 14 years his junior who is slowly reminding him of everything he believed in. and there are strange significant dreams happening. she is in denial about being in love with him bc she thinks he can do better. he cannot (see: sisterfucker + widely reviled and feared + every time someone flirts w him he flirts back until they go what that dick like at which point he goes bad leave me alone). she is the world's most hopeful and honourable knight except she's not a knight. i will stop now bc there is more to say but we will be here all day.
2. well there are two young girls who. yes. are on different continents. and have never met. stay with me. they have had WILDLY different experiences regarding family, marriage, the abuse of power, and old men who are into them to a weird degree. and i think that there is a chance that one of them, having grown accustomed to smiling demurely at you on her way to go pray for the deaths of you and your entire disgusting family, could really use the influence of the other, who keeps saying shit like i am but a young girl after having having sacked two cities and conquered another. when we last saw one of them, she was in disguise gossiping with a sweet stranger while on her way to meet yet another potential husband under duress. and the other had dysentery, a miscarriage, a dragon, and a fake ass husband and city in turmoil to get back to. and i think that is a combo i would like to see. i know they haven't even met yet. this is just vibes and plans and ideas i am sorry.
68 notes · View notes
Text
Tumblr media
58 notes · View notes
dcbicki · 2 months
Text
Sophie? Kit? Gothic horror? The Jonsa AU author in me just !!!
104 notes · View notes
fromtheseventhhell · 8 months
Text
I think it's so funny that people treat Arya like she has no self-control because she *checks notes* stood up to Joffrey and defended her friend from being attacked
162 notes · View notes
cruciology · 2 months
Text
My most random ship has got to be Sansa/Podrick. I’m right about this I know in my heart of hearts he would treat her right.
71 notes · View notes
queenmakings · 1 year
Photo
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
Modern Westeros: The Starks will endure.
235 notes · View notes
reginarubie · 3 months
Text
When HotD got out everyone was like Oh, Daemyra is the new, improved Jonerys with good storyline
And I didn’t give it too much attention, you know I stay mostly in my line and don’t mess around with shit that doesn’t interest me (like Jonerys) but now that I think of it…
I’ll do you all one better (and maybe I am late at the party as always, because I can’t be the only one noticing this)
Jonsa is the reversed, evolved, less entitled (both Jon and Sansa start as spoiled characters but have their entitlement beaten out of them pretty soon, and we love them for it), more duty-oriented (thank you Ned) Daemyra.
I mean all signs point in that direction and I see you 👀 GRRM pushing the Jonsa agenda further on!
And now I’ll tell you what sources I have to base my logic on (and maybe I am wrong ey, but I think it fits Jonsa more, as of now, though Martin could totally disprove me going the other way confronted to the way the show concluded knowing his ending).
So, at the beginning of the story, Robb becomes king in the North by popular demand.
In the first episode Viserys becomes heir (and later king) by popular demand.
Both Robb and Viserys inherit their position by their much beloved predecessor (Jaehaerys and Ned) and both are ‘named/appointed’ by a conclave of lords/ladies in the Riverlands ffs.
Both Viserys and Robb end up planting, with their own politics, the seeds of the shit storm that almost threatens to destroy their family after their death.
Robb marries Jeyne (Talisa in the show) instead of the Frey betrothed thus snubbing the Freys and going back on his word. He dies without an heir leaving the North in shambles when he had been a step from winning the war.
Viserys names Rhaenyra heir and then — instead of marrying the Velaryon girl — marries Alicent and has more children knowing that if they were male it could cause disrupt with the line of succession.
Both are idolised after their death — Viserys taking the name of The Peaceful thanks to the ruling and politics of his Queen and council and Robb by being sanctified by his siblings and lords even tho he was the one causing most of the problems who caused his death and almost destroyed the North — both Viserys and Robb loose their heirs.
Viserys loses his sons by Aemma
Robb dies childless and his heirs (Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Arya) are to his knowledge lost (Bran and Rickon presumed killed, Arya presumed dead and Sansa married to a Lannister).
The heir that remains them, their younger brother/sister (Daemon and Sansa) is not considered worthy of inheriting after them — Daemon for his character and Sansa because she has been married to a Lannister — so both do the same thing, they disinherit their lawful and rightful heir (yes Bran and Rickon and Arya are alive but Robb doesn’t know it; Viserys will have Aegon, Aemond, Daeron and Helaena but he doesn’t know nor care) to name another as heir someone who, by law, should pass after the rightful heir.
It seems to me like some pretty big parallels here.
Daemon = Sansa
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Daemon and Sansa are the second born children of a couple who love each other and apparently their mother’ fav.
And you know what’s sick? Daemon and Sansa both supported their brother’ right to any extent.
Daemon readied men-at-arms and sworn swords to defend Viserys’ claim when people rumoured Corlys wanted to assemble a fleet to defend Laenor’ right after Rhaenys.
Sansa bled for the northern independence when in KL and then later — and this is only show for now — Sansa gathered the northern army and put KL under siege to defend her brother. Sansa is the one who decided to rally the lords of the North behind House Stark once again (Jon was done fighting) and she was the one to offer Bran the role of Lord of WF when he returned from Beyond the Wall.
Despite being loyal to their family in their own way, both Daemon and Sansa are disinherited by their king in favor of someone they love but that by law should have come after them.
By succession tradition and law the brother of a king becomes before the daughter of a king — unless women can inherit the throne which was not the case in Westeros at the time — so Daemon came before Rhaenyra in the line of succession, yet Viserys disinherited him to name Rhaenyra heir.
By law and tradition of succession Sansa as the trueborn eldest surviving daughter of Ned and Cat in the evenience of Robb dying without heirs (Bran and Rickon are both presumed dead) comes before Jon, the base born son of Ned Stark. (Jon himself says so “by law Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa”/“Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa”, even though Sansa is a Lannister, a murderess and apparently dissolved in thin air) yet Robb with his will disinherit Sansa to name Jon heir.
Everyone expected Daemon/Sansa to be angry at Jon/Rhaenyra because of it — Rhaenyra herself and the viewer when Jon was named KitN — instead what happened?
Daemon became Rhaenyra’ stauncher supporter and Sansa became Jon’s. Daemon supported Rhaenyra and Sansa supported Jon. When people expected Daemon to lash out when the terms of surrender were issued, he obeyed Rhaenyra order without issue; when the northern lords unsatisfied with Jon’ stay in Dragonstone offered the crown to Sansa, Sansa refused and defended Jon’s claim. All she did in s8 was to defend Jon’s claim to the North and the Realm.
And you know what else is incredible?
Daemon is suspected to have “caused” his first wife’ death and his second wife died in childbirth. Rhea Royce died after a fall from horseback — in the show Daemon kills her, but in the book she dies of the wounds later on, as the hit to the head might have caused her delayed death. Still Daemon is suspected to have caused it — the horse to unseat Rhea — and tried to inherit his wife’ keep.
Sansa “caused” her first betrothed, Joffrey’ death, by telling the truth to Olenna and Margaery which spurned them to have him killed at his own wedding feast. Sansa escapes and her first husband is almost killed for the crime — almost making her a widow.
Both Daemon and Sansa are more skilled than their counterpart in their competence. Daemon is the most skilled warrior of his time, Sansa has learned politics from the best and worst in it.
Daemon finds himself at odds with his brother with the war of the stepstones and Sansa finds herself at odds with her brother whilst in KL as she has to navigate and survive the southern court and Joffrey.
Yet both return to their brother in the end, Sansa by remaining true to her Stark identity (“I am not your daughter, I am the Lord Eddard and lady Catelyn’s daughter. The blood of Winterfell”/ “what if it is truth he wants and justice for his lady?”) and Daemon by winning and giving the crown to his brother.
Sansa wins the battle of bastards through her alliance with the Knights of the Vale and lets her brother take the crown.
Sansa and Daemon are both described as beautiful, charming and dashing. But Daemon is mercurial and Sansa is called a witch for her apparent part in Joffrey’ death.
Both Daemon and Sansa are advisors in their capacity to their brother/king though they have to clamor to be recognised any degree of validity. Sansa has to fight to gain the right to be Jon’s advisor even if he chooses Davos as chief advisor as Viserys chose Otto.
Daemon’s children are the one who inherit the Iron throne after the DotD. Sansa’s children will inherit WF and the North after asoiaf is done.
Jon = Rhaenyra
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Jon and Rhaenyra are the odd ones out of this.
Rhaenyra knew her place, she prayed for a brother to inherit the Iron throne just like Jon would have died to defend Robb or any of his siblings (and in the book he does die for fakeArya). But both are ambitious.
Rhaenyra accepts she will be queen and makes of it her identity; Jon dreamed of become Lord of Winterfell before he knew what that entailed.
Both Rhaenyra and Jon expect that their orders — despite their intentions — will be followed, even when they go against hundreds of years of tradition. Rhaenyra as Queen and Jon believes the NW will follow to war against the Boltons when the NW has been neutral for thousand of years. And both pay the ultimate price for it. Death.
Jon is killed by his sworn brothers, Rhaenyra is killed by her brother’s dragon.
Both Rhaenyra and Jon have the temper of their family but they control it for the most part. It takes really big things for it to be spiked. Luke’s death for example.
Both Rhaenyra and Jon are intertwined with fake relationships. Both cause the death of their first lover/spouse.
Rhaenyra marries Laenor to keep the Velaryon in her corner, Laenor who is a gay man — in the book she is much less understanding of it btw — and their relationship is fake and her children aren’t his. In the show she loves him platonically, though I don’t remember that being the case in the book. In the end, whether his death is faked or not, Rhaenyra causes that. Either by having him killed — as they say in the book — or by having him fake his death to marry Daemon to strengthen her claim.
Jon has a “fake” relationship with Ygritte (you know what I think of her in the book) to make sure his undercover mission is accomplished. In the end Jon’ mission is accomplished and even though he “fell in love with her” he still left her and the war between them ended up claiming her life.
After the death of the heir — Balon and Bran and Rickon — Rhaenyra and Jon are both raised to the role of heir by their king with a decree that disinherited/snubbed the previous law-ful heir (Sansa/Daemon).
At the same time, Viserys/Robb have other heirs. Viserys marries and has sons (who have sons), Rickon and Bran are both alive though presumed dead who could end up threatening Jon’s claim once the will becomes active after Jon’ return from the dead.
They have sexual tension with the snubbed heir and value them as advisors though they don’t always agree with their politics.
Jon feels that Sansa’ opinion demeans him before the Lords — tho he names her regent — and Rhaenyra distrust Daemon not to declare war without her say-so.
And yet both Jon and Rhaenyra gain the ripe of Sansa and Daemon’ loyalty.
Even if Jon and Sansa don’t always see eye to eye, Sansa loyalty to Jon is what gets him out of KL alive, without Daemon’ skills as warrior Rhaenyra’ war would have ended long before it started.
Sansa and Daemon both are against Jon and Rhaenyra to surrender their crown, and work to keep the other half in their role.
And you know what? There’s more.
Gifts giving — belonging to a House
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Daemon and Sansa both have something that defines their belonging to House Stark.
Sansa’s wolf-bit and Daemon’ sword — which, do I have to go down the sexual metaphor about Sansa’ bosom and Daemon’ sword? — and both whilst speaking of heirs/reading to war to defend the claim to the crown gift the other half something that signifies their belonging to the House as well.
Rhaenyra’ necklace and Jon’s cloak. Both items which Rhaenyra and Jon puts on and basically keeps on for ever — like it was a fucking joke how long Jon kept the cloak on even on Dragonstone —also Rhaenyra necklace resembles a chain (chain of command) and same with Jon’s cloak stripes (which resemble a chain of command).
Rhaenyra confronts Daemon about her being named heir — and perhaps we’ll have something similar in the books for Jon and Sansa. Tho we have something akin to that when Arya confronts Sansa about Jon having the crown and Sansa liking the attention.
Yet both Sansa and Daemon stand strong in their loyalty to Jon above anyone else.
Protecting — destroying some of the earliest and greatest threats the other claim
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Vaemond is one of the earliest threats to Rhaenyra rule, just as we know LF has been playing against Jon all along, yet both Sansa and Daemon defend the other half by killing the offender.
Arya and Bran serve as the Viserys in the comparison, because it’s Sansa who passes the sentence (as Arya herself points out) the same way as Daemon is the one who decided to kill Vaemond instead of letting Viserys order of having his tongue removed to be carried out.
Thus removing the earliest threat to the other one’.
Also, both Daemon and Sansa destroyed indirectly or directly another threat to Jon and Rhaenyra by killing Aemond and Daenerys who had the attitude (both of them) of destroying the Realm to take the Iron throne if needed. Aemond would not have taken Aegon’ claim from him but if Aegon had died of his wounds before Rhaenyra was executed, with Maelor and Jaehaerys dead Aemond stood the greatest threat to Rhaenyra. Daemon killed Aemond and Sansa plotted to have the truth about Daenerys uncovered and indirectly causing her death through Jon.
Supporting the other as ruler
Tumblr media Tumblr media
Daemon becomes Rhaenyra supporter just as Sansa becomes Jon’s. Even as snubbed heirs they love the new heir and when the time comes they are there, by their side, defending them.
Also, never forget that Sansa/Daemon are always on the side of the consort when it comes to Jon/Rhaenyra whilst that is not true for other characters, who are always afforded place of importance, but not that of the consort.
When Corlys comments on Viserys lack of action in the Stepstones Daemon replies that he can speak of his brother how he well wishes but that is not the truth for others. Similarly Sansa defends Jon (“he’s our king, he’s doing what he thinks best”) even tho she shares the lords preoccupations.
Despite not always seeing eye to eye with Daemon, he is a trusted advisor to Rhaenyra who listens to him. In the same way, despite feeling the need of Sansa’ validation, Sansa is his trusted advisor to the point Jon entrusts the whole of the North to her.
So, yeah, I raise you the Daemyra is the Targaryen version of Jonsa, with Daemon and Rhaenyra being worse people than Jon and Sansa are combined. By ey, there’s a dark streak to the Starks not to be underestimated.
72 notes · View notes
catofoldstones · 6 months
Text
Here’s to mutual who told me to read Alayne I from the pre-released chapters because-
Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media Tumblr media
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
96 notes · View notes
lycorim · 2 years
Text
So obsessed with the fact that Sansa looked at a direwolf, an untamed beast of legend capable of maiming and murder, and went “hmm needs a fancy little ribbon.” My darling child. My baby. You are so right.
3K notes · View notes