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cheerfullycatholic · 9 months

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I hope someday kids don't have to fear coming out to their Catholic families. I hope someday they're raised being taught the whole truth, that while actions are sinful and the Church cannot condone them, feelings and temptations are not, and that God doesn't love them any less for something they can't control. I hope when they start to feel these things their immediate reaction isn't "oh no, my parents will kill me if they find out" but, "I need to talk about this with my parents". I hope someday it's no longer treated as the worst thing a person could be, or something that needs to be hidden. I hope someday they don't feel unwelcome by their parish, that they know they belong there just as much as anyone else. I hope someday they're taught that a celibate life is not a punishment, but a beautiful way to live a holy life- not just for lgbt people, but for anyone who chooses it, and that it's no longer looked at as a lesser option. I hope someday they can confidently turn to their loved ones for support and guidance, and not have to carry this alone. I hope someday lgbt Catholics are loved in the Church like God loves them.

#heard a story yesterday that brought back a lot of memories about when i first started questioning my sexuality #dont tell me im wrong #that people in the church are already welcoming and loving and whatever else #at least a good chunk of them arent #i didnt just make up everything i said #i mentioned it because ive seen it #and yes i do know #like i said above #lgbt actions are a sin and we cannot condone them #if you think that anything i said condones it then idk what to tell you #changing how you treat people so they dont feel hated or ostracized by their own community doesnt equal acceptance of sin

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compacflt · 8 months

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I was wondering if you had thoughts about how Ice and Mav's politics don't fully align with their actions? There was a post where you said Ice's politics are more socially liberal than Mav's but Mav is also the one who goes out to La Jolla to hit on guys before Ice, and later again when he's broken up with Ice, but Ice only goes out with women out of fear for his honor or whatever. Same with their respective thoughts on feminism, with Mav's mild respect for Charlie (telling Ice not all women fit the stereotype) but later Ice is the one who sends Juno to Mav's Top Gun class without telling him she's a woman and Ice has a respectful friendship with Juno. I think you said Ice is vaguely on the ace-aro spectrum (demi-homoromantic) which is a sort of fascinating irony that he doesn't have the words for it whereas Mav is the one with the theories about Ice's sexuality. Though with their hypocrisies and inconsistencies this all just feeds into their characterizations of the fact that they keep divorcing their actions from their spoken words from their identities.

okay going to take this point by point

1. yes i have addressed their politics in relation to their actions before, so maybe read this post and this post before you read this one, just to see where my other thoughts line up

2. gay republicans and conservatives do exist (at the very least certainly republicans and conservatives who have gay sex in secret)

3. before maverick is a political actor he is a human being, and the characterization that we are primarily given for him is that he is impulsive and reckless and doesn’t think through his actions. As ive written about many times before—from a story construction standpoint, his thoughtlessness is his number one most important character trait. He is both thoughtlessly dangerous (his hero’s “fatal flaw;” he can’t stop himself from making bad decisions) and thoughtlessly brilliant (the navy’s best and most daring and heroic pilot). He does what he wants without thinking about it; and he makes excuses and hollow promises whenever that plan doesn’t work out (“I know better than that. It will never ever happen again;” [it happens again] “I’m not gonna let you down. I promise.” [goose dies shortly thereafter]). His thoughtless impulsiveness overrides everything else. Maybe the act of having gay sex (to address your “he gets fucked in La Jolla before ice” point) is politically subversive, but for Maverick’s thoughtless character that we are shown in Top Gun, the most subversive possible thing would be to LABEL the gay sex and think through the consequences of it. To call a spade a spade and call himself gay or bi or queer or whatever. That would be the most subversive (and with mav, entirely unbelievable imo) possible thing. That takes conscious effort of thought, something maverick is near-incapable of doing. As long as he can get away with it without thinking about it, he’s politically in the clear, with regards to his character & character arc. If that makes sense. “Don’t think. Just do.” That’s literally his motto lmfao. He represents thoughtless action as an archetype; his politics come secondary to his desires

4. Their “respective thoughts on feminism” are divided into two camps: 1. “Professional as required by the law” and 2. “Sex pest mode.” They’re naval officers in the 1980s. Whether republican or democrat, that’s kind of par for the course. How men treat women can be a performance to other men. Any respect i made them show towards women had broader, more metatextual “need to move the conversation/story from A to B” reasoning behind it. See the first post I linked for much more on that.

5. i never said ice was on the ace/aro spectrum, or if i did i DEFINITELY meant it sarcastically. That could not be further from what i believe. This isn’t something I’ve ever discussed on this blog before, but a MASSIVE part of the philosophical discussion I’ve been trying to moderate within this project over the last year is the question— “do labels even work with characters under these very specific and extraordinarily extreme conditions and societal pressures?” It’s a question I took from my time studying early American history—the contexts of certain environments, and I would definitely count the elite officer ranks of the navy in the 90s and 2000s as one of these certain environments, simply Are Not Conducive to the easier (path of least resistance maybe) ways we civilians handle sexuality and friendship and trauma. There are so many variables and external and internal pressures within an environment like the upper ranks of career navy officers that sexual orientation labels lose all nuance and accuracy. I don’t think Ice (as i have written him) is gay. I don’t think he’s straight. I don’t think he’s bi. I think he’s an unlabelable product of too many variables for labels to have any effect on how he is perceived. Which, in our society built around labels and categories, is admittedly difficult to wrestle with. But doesn’t make it any less worth wrestling with.

6. Yes, ice and mav’s hypocrisy is the linchpin of the entire story.

They’re both trying to have their cake (“honor” and moral superiority based on the harmful traditional subjective morals arbitrated by elite navy officership) and eat it too (a fulfilling relationship with the love of their lives). & the point is that they cant. they have to settle for one.

#adam & eve can either stay in eden or eat from the tree of knowledge. but the moral authority told them not to eat; so they can’t have both #or—they can have both but they can’t ACKNOWLEDGE having both; they have to keep it a secret even from themselves. that way it’s not sin.#(the navy is ice/mav’s religious institution as i keep repeating)#re: ice and labels.#like i am both joking and not joking when i say he’s mavericksexual #simply because maverick represents both the guilt Ice must deal with re: the death of a friend #AND the recklessness that would inspire him to realize (in the actionable sense of the word) the full extent of his sexuality #no one else can do that. he and maverick were made for each other like that.#same thing where ice is the only one who can legitimize maverick in the eyes of their overbearing institution.#they’re made for each other in a way that imo transcends sexuality and labels.#I’m not going to touch the politics of ‘demi-‘ labels because i know people feel very strongly about it #and you come to me for Top Gun not necessarily my thoughts on modern identity politics #but suffice to say i don’t believe either ice or mav are demi anything.#they’re just guys. they’ve killed people and killed with each other and killed for each other. they don’t need labels. just let them be #tom iceman kazansky #pete maverick mitchell #top gun #icemav #top gun maverick #asks #edts notes #thanks for the ask! hope it isn’t coming off as aggressive or argumentative #* argumentative yes. you can argue with me.#but the labeling issue has been on my mind since DAY ONE & influenced much of how i wrote the story #human beings are so much more complex than most labels give us credit for

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