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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 8 months

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ah, yes. SPOP. the master of "tell, don't show".

"how do we let the viewers know that Catra loves Adora? maybe make her do something nice for Adora or hesitate to hurt her? nah, let's just have the big bad evil villain point it out."

they literally had to make three different characters point out that adora and catra had feelings for each other, instead of showing it, especially with catra.

double trouble got the closest to the truth because they used the word "obsessed" and not "love". yes, that's all that catra's feelings towards adora were - an unhealthy obsession. i still don't like the fact that double trouble then goes on to say that catra "didn't want this" because she clearly did, but that's a topic for another day

but the fact that the only proof of catra's feelings towards adora is random screenshots of her smirking and saying/doing something borderline sensual (with the context usually being catra just manipulating and/or abusing adora as usual) or random characters pointing out that catra loves adora is so.. lazy.

and the fact that 90% of the fandom uses this as "proof" and are like "haha adora is so dumb she doesn't realise catra loves her". she is not dumb. why would you assume that a person who constantly enjoys hurting you and trying to kill you has any positive feelings towards you at all? this isn't ✨ gay repression ✨ it's literally a reasonable assumption (which was proven right over and over again).

is it really so hard to write a character who shows genuine affection? even if catra is mad at adora, why not show that she still cares? that part in s1 where she returns adora's sword and told her to escape the horde was nice. it made me feel like she cares about adora's safety and well-being, even if she feels betrayed by her. but then they ruined that by having catra tell adora that she did that because she didn't want adora to return. how romantic.

catra doesn't even show friendly affection, even when they were on the same side. she just belittled adora and constantly prioritized her own feelings over adora's. and when they're enemies, adora shows restraint and makes sure not to hurt catra too much while catra does the most heinous shit to adora with absolutely no remorse or hesitation. if she really always loved adora, she wouldn't be so quick to hurt her or control her.

but that's what you expect from a group of adult writers who still don't understand the consequences of war and abuse, and who constantly prioritizes one character over the rest. it's just embarrassing. i've seen fanfictions written by children that are better than this.

#spop #spop critical #anti catradora #spop catra #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop salt #anti catra #catra #she ra #she ra and the princesses of power #she ra salt #she ra discourse #she ra criticism #she ra critical

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almacambiondaughterofsaleos · 5 months

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Toxic Ships That Poisoned A Show

Because people say it's a straight person thing, but nope as some shows it's an all sexualities thing.

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five-flavor-soup · 1 month

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This is technically in response/as an addition to a post on the supposed ‘double standard’ in the fandom between Zuko and Jet as Katara’s love interests, but it’s been so long since it was posted and I figured the OP would be entirely uninterested in my word vomit, especially after like one and half years—so, separate post. I added a link for those interested. There's a cut because this got quite long lmao.

In short, the post supposes the argument that though Jet would’ve made Katara kill people (something Zuko very much Did Not Do, no matter what you think about The Southern Raiders), he cleaned up his act after this. Zuko, on the other hand, did lots of Really Bad Things to Katara & Co. with far more frequency than Jet did and got redeemed after a multitude of episodes doing Various Things Moste Evile. To then slap Jet with The Toxic Ex-label and see Zuko as the ‘healthier’ and ‘better’ option creates a Double Standard(™) within the fandom, which is supposedly bad and not an arguably incorrect reading.

But the differences in fandom perception between Jet and Zuko as Love Interests for Katara (one of which canonically, and the other potentially and apparently talked about in the writer’s room) are easily explained, as can the Supposed Double Standard—just by thinking about it from Katara’s viewpoint, or even the audience’s. Because, well, the worst things Jet ‘almost’ ended up doing didn’t happen because of outside interference only.

That’s the important bit here. He 100% would’ve drowned an entire village just to get rid of a handful of Fire Nation soldiers, had Sokka not managed to evacuate everybody. He 100% would’ve grievously injured two people who, as far as Jet and everybody else were aware, were refugees who might not even be firebenders — considering nobody else saw Iroh heat up his tea, he could’ve been wrong — in an attempt to prove his own hunch. Had the guards not been there, had Zuko not been able to fight back with swords, Jet would’ve genuinely attempted to wound them for as much as a puff of smoke. And Jet consistently involves bystanders (innocent or not) in his desperate quest to harm and defeat the Fire Nation: the Gaang (and particularly Katara, through explicitly manipulative means) and the villagers in Jet; Zuko, Iroh, and the people in the teashop in City of Walls and Secrets. Additionally, we don’t see more violence from him because he’s not a main character like Zuko is—though it’s implied that Jet beats up villagers who are supposedly in cahoots with the Fire Nation often, only agreeing to turn over a new leaf when he, Smellerbee, and Longshot decide to move to Ba Sing Se.

Zuko explicitly and frequently doesn’t harm people: that, or it isn’t important to the plot. He doesn’t burn down the village on Kyoshi, he literally only manages to lightly singe it. He threatens people with violence frequently but never actually goes in for the kill. I’d argue that the most explicitly violent thing he does in Book 1 is breaking Aang out of the Pouhai Stronghold—for his own ends obviously, but if it’s spelled like treason and sounds like treason, it’s probably treason. When he thinks of robbing the pregnant couple while he’s on the run, he stops himself of his own volition; when he considers using Appa to catch Aang (this was a point made against Zuko in the post), he’s unaware of what Appa’s been through prior to that point and sees him as no more than an animal used for travel, much like the ostrich horse he stole earlier in the season.

Zuko’s schtick throughout Book 1 and 2 is that he doesn’t want to think of the consequences of his actions. His plans are never fully complete. He doesn’t think of how he’s going to get a chained, notoriously slippery little eel of an Avatar to the Fire Nation, and he doesn’t think about what would happen to twelve-year-old Aang after they got there—which is horrible of him, but it also shows an odd, ignorant kind of innocence that you’d associate with a kid who’s got a hard time telling right from wrong. Like, I love Zuko dearly, adore him even, but kiddo doesn’t think ahead until the Book 2 finale and even that’s debatable. He’ll eventually start thinking ahead a little bit but for the most part, he doesn’t. Not saying that takes away responsibility, because it absolutely doesn’t, but it is telling of Zuko’s character: he’s an ‘act first, think later’-kind of guy, all ‘fuck around; find out; maybe success’. His sole goal throughout Book 1 and 2 is going home, without even thinking on how to get there beyond like, Avatar in my custody => back in Fire Nation with Avatar => dad loves me again. And he says that his only intention is to go home too, in Ep 2 of Book 1:

Aang: If I go with you, [He holds his staff in front of him as an offer, making sure Zuko understands that he does not wish to continue fighting.] will you promise to leave everyone alone? [The camera cuts to a side-view of the area, Zuko's men still surrounding him, spears poised. After a brief moment of hesitation, Zuko erects himself and nods in agreement. Aang is apprehended by Zuko's men, who take his staff . . . ] Zuko: [Boarding the ship up the walkway. Determined.] Head a course for the Fire Nation. I'm going home.

(Added emphasis for my point)

Zuko is not the Big Bad. He’s not The Largest Threat. He never is. In Book 1 it’s Zhao, in Book 2 it’s Azula, and in Book 3 it’s Ozai. Zuko is a consistent threat, yes, but not a particularly large one no matter how good of a fighter he is. Because he’s presented to us as a disastrously hurt and traumatised little brat who we, the audience, are supposed to feel sorry for, and slowly grow fond of. Because we learn in The Storm that the notion of “caring for others is weak” has literally been branded into him. Because he keeps getting back up to fight, but consistently holds back. We are shown that he knows, on some level, that what he’s doing is wrong: the text suggests that Zuko is actively suppressing his morals. And by the time Zuko hires an assassin to ensure the Avatar is dead, we know that Zuko is incredibly unhappy with his choice(s) and is desperate to be safe; that he’s uncomfortable but wants to be comfortable; that he’s incorrect about the source of his fear while he’s back in the palace. The audience is shown this explicitly.

By contrast, we’re shown that Jet is fully aware that those villagers will die. He’s fully aware that, if he manages to prove the two refugees are firebenders, they’ll be arrested and probably mutilated (if the hand-crushing is any indication). I love Jet and his character, but he’s supposed to be the example of poisoning yourself with your hatred, anger, and hurt. He’s revenge that goes too far, because he doesn’t allow himself closure. He knows the consequences and isn’t shown to care for them, as long as his goal is furthered.

And there is the small, but significant, difference between the two characters: Zuko initially just wants to capture the Avatar, is purposefully remaining unaware of what will happen when he does so, and is clearly shown to change, while Jet just wants to punish firebenders and is very aware of what will be necessary for him to do so, with a handful of lines of how he ‘stopped being like that’. And honestly, Jet is far more mature than Zuko is for quite some time, regarding the violence of war—basically as mature as Zuko eventually becomes at the tail-end of his redemption arc. But Zuko’s maturity is at that point healthier, because he doesn’t want to genuinely do harm.

In regards to their separate relationships with Katara, there’s these fantastic points that @sokkastyles made in reply to the post:

The fact that Zuko actually did change and Katara actually forgave him makes ALL the difference. [ . . . ] The thing about Jet is how manipulative he was with Katara. He not only almost made her kill innocents, but he lied to her about the man he attacked having a knife when he was called out, so that Katara would see her as righteous. Someone who is willing to lie in order to make themselves seem good and someone who says they are going to change but then does the same things doesn’t have a good track record, and that’s a more troubling relationship dynamic than someone who acts as an upfront enemy but then sincerely changes.

And:

I do think it makes sense to focus on manipulation being worse than being a cartoon villain when we're talking about personal relationships. I think many people can relate to having someone like Jet in their lives who seems nice but who lies and manipulates to justify their own bad behavior despite repeatedly claiming that they will change. Not that many people will experience being tied to a tree by someone who wants you to tell them where the Avatar is, and it is completely reasonable for people to be more forgivable of things Zuko did as a villain than things Jet did to Katara when he claimed to be a friend.

I actually don’t have anything to add to this, lol. It’s succinct and well-worded.

Lastly, in addition the relatability and the relationships being different (the manipulative, emotionally hurt, and self-proclaimed anti-hero versus the initially childish, explicitly confused and desperate cartoon villain, plus the girl they hurt horribly), there’s also the problem of Jet not being a main character. Jet is a relatively well-written side character, whilst Zuko is very quickly established as a main-ish character with his own POV (as the writers decided during the conceptualisation that he’d be joining Team Avatar eventually). Zuko’s troubling, self-destructive nature that has been forced upon him and his Tragic Childhood is shown in high definition. The audience is supposed to eventually be okay with Zuko and hopefully like him, slowly adding puzzle pieces to complete the picture of a horrific earlier youth and treatment by nearly everybody he knows except Iroh. Something like this isn’t necessary with Jet, not just because he was already incredibly likeable and understandable from his introduction and onwards, but also because he’s neither a villain nor a main character.

There’s multiple reasons as to why Zuko is often seen as the ‘better’ option, just like there are multiple reasons why Jet and Zuko are compared so frequently—they’re both traumatised teenage boys who ‘rebel’ to get some semblance of control back, but we see Zuko change into a kid anyone would be a little bit proud and fond of and that doesn’t happen with Jet. Double standard or not, Zuko and Jet are different characters who the writers also treated very differently, on purpose. It makes sense to me that the audience would think Zutara is the ‘less bad’ or far better option. We know far more about Zuko than we know about Jet; and Jet’s redemption arc, if we can even call it that, halts permanently when Zuko’s is reaching the height it for him to go into a freefall, ultimately culminating in a genuine redemption. We, the audience, know this. So does Katara.

#atla meta #zutara meta #not tagging this j*t*ra bc its a bit negative and i do not want to infringe on anyone's tag lmao #but i will tag it #jetara critical #just to be safe #jet atla #prince zuko #katara #zutara #the thing about both these ships is that katara can be put down as making an active choice in the narrative #though it wants to punish her for it #she is Wrong. he is Bad Guy. here's Better Guy go have babies #regardless. i feel like post-redemption zuko would be easier for her to choose--because she saw the proof of his change

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sjbattleangel · 10 months

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If people talked about ATLA the way they talk about Steven Universe, Star Vs. TLOK and She-Ra.

"So Aang just ran away and froze himself at the bottom of the ocean, leaving innocent people to be conquered by the Fire Nation? What a selfish coward! He has blood on hands!"

"Ugh! The stupid chauvinistic crap Sokka says! The creators are misogynists!."

"Man, Katara is such a Mary Sue! The way she grew into a waterbender was so unrealistic. Bad writing!"

"Toph is blind? But how can we tell? A blind person can never do THAT! Nope, sorry. Not good enough. Doesn't count as real representation."

"Zuko is an irredeemable, imperialist brat, too easily forgiven. He doesn't deserve a redemption arc. He should've been killed at the beginning. The creators clearly have a thing for "Draco In Leather Pants".

"The King of Omashu, Imprisoned, Jet, The Deserter, The Cave Of Two Lovers, Avatar Day, The Tales Of Ba Singh Se, ect. Pointless filler episodes with nothing to add. More examples of sunk-cost fallacy."

"Azula is a powerful young woman who slowly goes insane because Mommy and Daddy didn't love her enough? The creators hate women and want them back in the kitchens!"

"So we're shown that there're innocent people in the Fire Nation who don't support the war yet the Fire Nation are still the bad guys? Trying to earn woke brownie points much?

"Aang doesn't kill the Firelord but drains him of all his powers, ultimately sparing him!?! THE CREATORS ARE FASCIST SYMPATHIZERS!! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!"

#avatar: the last airbender #atla #avatar the last airbender #steven universe #star vs foe #star vs the forces of evil #tlok #the legend of korra #svtfoe #su critical critical #svtfoe critical critical #jokes #double standards #she ra #spop critical critical

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iddstar · 10 months

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I did the thing!

The theme was some of my favourite battle girlfriends.

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slothyykittee · 1 month

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The biggest thing I learned when being a critic of other writers, is that pride will lead to your downfall.

Whether you are religious or not, you may have heard the story of Lucifer and how he fell from grace due to pride. That story can be applied to this situation.

Writers proclaiming in their heads that their skills are pure perfection, to the point of doubling down on any criticism they see. This issue is due to these people seeing their writings as an extension of themselves, which then see this as a personal attack.

We all know that criticism, no matter how constructive, hurts. You worked so hard and did your best on a project, only for someone to point out the flaws of it.

You end up feeling broken and sad. Despite your efforts, your project is not perfect.

But here's the thing: You are human. You are bound to make mistakes. No person that lived on this Earth never made a mistake. You need to consider that person's point of view. Sure, you feel hurt hearing their critical words, but that's short term. You need to focus on the long term: the benefits that this critical view will give you.

Constructive criticism is like a medical needle: it will hurt you the first time, but in the long term, it will help you get better.

Listen what others tell you. They want you to reach your full potential. Don't dismiss it, or that will lead to your fall from grace.

#writing #writers on tumblr #writeblr #writing advice #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #spop critical #lore olympus critical #lore olympus criticism #she ra critical #svtfoe critical #writing community #on writing

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eliaism · 4 months

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Get you someone who’s the 🩷💜🤍 to your ❤️🖤🩶

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anti-catradora-collection · 2 months

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glimmadora appreciation post!

i can't believe they weren't a canon couple. like PLEASE LOOK AT THESE.

(I don't know if this expression exists outside of Brazil, but it's like they say: "they had the knife and the cheese in their hands and didn't do anything with it".)

there's a lot more moments i could add (including the hot springs scene), but tumblr has that limit of 10 images per post.

#glimmadora #glimmer #she ra adora #glimmer spop #glimmer x adora #adora x glimmer #spop critical #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop salt #spop #she ra

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raviosprovidence · 5 months

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This is such a dumb fucking post because holy shit, IT DID! Y'all saying it didn't either ignored the entire first four seasons, or just straight up think gaslighting, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and forcefully mind controlling someone and fantasizing about how you'll make them kill their friends is perfectly fine (yes, the latter thing did happen within the show, check out the episode White Out)

The problem is that CATRA SAYS 2 SHITTY APOLOGIES AND THATS IT. There is barely any acknowledgement on 90% of the bad shit she did. Nothing on calling adora stupid in a derogatory way. nothing about the excessive amount of violence or the insane amount of gaslighting done within the show. Hell, they didn't even acknowledge the fact that catra nearly destroyed the world out of spite and thus, *indirectly killed someone*. Never acknowledged!

We DO like less sanitized queer stories! When they're actually given the weight they deserve and characters doing shitty things aren't constantly excused or told that they're in the right. Gen V is pretty gruesome and that's very lgbtq+ friendly and not sanitized. Arcane is leading towards a lesbian romance and it's FAR from sanitized and child friendly. Everything Everywhere All At Once (though not technically a queer focused story) casts a lesbian AS THE ANTAGONISTIC ROLE against a straight woman and no one had a problem with that! Bottoms! Exists! The fact that it exists and got as popular as it is shows that this is just wrong.

Y'all just didn't watch the She ra . I unfortunately paid attention. Having a character get brain washed, apologize twice vaguely, and then kiss the main character doesn't excuse all the prior abuse that character committed.

#media talk #media criticism #she ra #anti catradora #anti catra #queer stories #also im so mad that 14 minute video showcasing all of the abuse #got taken off youtube #anyways we do like less sanitized queer stories #we just like good ones #she ra doesn't count

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can-of-tomato-soup · 1 month

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""We need more flawed female characters" Y'all couldn' even handle Catra" Is something I've seen commented a few times to people who are critical of Catradora when the thing is that I do like Catra even If she is a flawed character. Catra as a character is not what I have problen with.

What I do have a problem with is that Shera is a show for children, possibly the first Lgbtq+ representation they see and Catradora has an abusive dynamic that is normalized. Children, especially Lgbtq+ youth might see it, relate to it and think that the way Catra treats Adora is okay when it's not.

If Shera was a show for adults, exploring toxic dynamics in Sapphic relationships would be okay. If you like Catradora because they have a toxic relationship and like exploring non healthy dynamics, that's okay. I just don't think Catradora is a ship that should be treated like it is considering that the show is for kids.

#anti catradora #spop #spop critical #she ra and the princesses of power #canoftomatosoup

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madnessandentropy · 3 months

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Stans are so funny. According to them, Shadow Weaver is an incredibly skilled and intelligent manipulator and poor Catra (who is also incredibly intelligent) was manipulated by this evil woman.

She's so awful... until she manipulates Glimmer that is. She's so "obviously" evil, and Glimmer is so stupid and selfish for being easily manipulated when she's in a vulnerable position after losing her mother and being forced to grapple with that grief (and her trauma) while fighting in a war and unexpectedly becoming queen.

What a terrible person Glimmer is, she's so evil for working with the enemy and Adora's abuser (remember Adora's abuse only matters when tearing down Glimmer!) even though Catra works alongside a literal genocidal maniac.

Don't forget that Glimmer is abusive to Adora for yelling at her and arguing with her! Catra is Adora's true friend and partner, she only aids in genocide and regularly assaults and tortures Adora because she's traumatised!

#thoughts #spop critical #spop critisism #anti catradora #anti spop #anti catra #spop salt #she ra critical #she ra critcism

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spop-romanticizes-abuse · 8 months

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okay, so is it just me or is it concerning that the whole "drunk adora" thing is clearly a result of catra infecting adora with a deadly virus and yet it's treated as a joke?

both the show itself and the fans make light of this situation. adora was clearly in immense pain when she was infected and yet the show quickly changes its tone afterward and is like "haha look, adora is fine! she's not hurt or traumatized at all, look at how silly she is!"

the adult equivalent to this would be if a person spiked someone else's drink with clearly fucked up intentions, and people treated it as a joke. but even this isn't an accurate comparison because adora is not just drugged, she had just gone through an insanely painful experience that she had no control over.

this scene shouldn't be so light-hearted and humorous. this just proves how little the show writers cares about adora. we have to go forward to s5 and compare this with how catra was treated after she got chipped by horde prime. because these two scenes are clear parallels - a character who gets mind controlled by a villain, goes through immense pain and is turned into a weapon to fight their loved ones (the last part is a stretch in catra's case but whatever).

catra gets to take some rest, she gets to lash out at people because of her trauma, she is shown to have constant nightmares, she's shown to be scared of horde prime and is uncomfortable with the chip on her neck. in short, her trauma is taken seriously.

meanwhile, adora's trauma has no lasting consequences. she just gets to run around acting stupid for a while, then go back to normal after she is rescued.

the whole "cartoon character gets affected by something equivalent to getting drunk" is a common trope. but the difference is that in other cartoons, it's usually an accident. in the owl house, there are two instances of this trope - willow getting her memory wiped temporarily and luz falling sick. both of these aren't caused by deliberate actions. amity was definitely at fault in willow's situation but it was still an accident, and she was clearly anxious and guilty about what happened unlike catra. similarly, mabel from gravity falls also has one of these moments, where she eats too much sugar candy (or whatever that was). again, in this context, it's funny because it's an accident.

again, the show fails to deliver when it comes to adora's trauma, but what's new?

#spop #spop critical #anti catradora #spop catra #spop criticism #spop discourse #spop salt #anti catra #catra #she ra #she ra and the princesses of power #she ra adora #she ra critical #she ra criticism #she ra catra #she ra salt #she ra discourse #adora

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