Fellow Chaggie shipper, here and I wanted to ask you a question. Could you please do an analysis post on the Chaggie argument from Hello Rosie. I know this will sound weird but I can't get over the level of icy anger Charlie had towards Vaggie or how despite everything going on, Charlie is more hurt from Vaggie not being honest with her. Just angst all around.
Oh yeah sure I'd love to!
I'm not sure there's a lot I can say about that argument that isn't already super obvious, so I wanna talk about Charlie's anger because of something my brother said as we watched episode 7. He loved that episode apparently because "When they're separated, it's even more obvious that Charlie is the one who's more quick to lose her cool." Which, looking back, is actually true!(To an extent)
Vaggie and Charlie are both quite quick to anger. Charlie is just better at hiding it because she's a chronic people pleaser. Although Charlie wouldn't immediately show her anger at a person being a jerk to her specifically, she's immediately summoning fire and brimstone over anyone who hurts/insults her friends or the cause she's fighting for.
Love this lil bit in "You Didn't Know". How Vaggie is the one telling Charlie to calm down, as if she knows what's about to happen. She knows that if she doesn't at least try to reel in her girl Charlie would be spitting literal fire at a goddamn seraphim.
It would seem like such a surprising role reversal, but if you look at all the times Charlie would lose it whenever Vaggie's not there to tell her "babe, chill", then it makes sense.
But then when their fallout happens, Charlie's short temper is even more apparent. She calls Alastor an asshole to his face even though she considered choosing his support over her father's. She openly glares and rolls her eyes at Rosie when she jokes that her and Alastor look like an item even though she still kept things cordial with Valentino after he licked her arm. She flips the bird at some old lady even though she didn't take visible offense at all the demons that inserted their crude and rude selves in "Happy Day in Hell." While she was cold and subdued even when upset with Vaggie, she was explosive and in ur face when she was pissed at everyone else.
Vaggie reigned in both the girl in Charlie who dreams a little too big and the demon who's waiting to lash out in flames. It really makes me wonder if there's a difference in the kind of person Charlie used to be before Vaggie. Before she had friends to be angry on behalf of and a person to calm her down. And then, in the wake of their argument, Charlie is left with a lot of anger that is easy to ignite.
But I love love love that despite all that anger, Charlie can't bring herself to deny that she loves Vaggie with all of her hurt heart.
This little moment is one of my favorite parts in the series. My brother mentioned that this episode and episode three were his favorites because he liked the beats the dialogues followed. So he looked back--
(the man literally paused the episode to check the opening credits of ep 7 and 3. I was a little annoyed because I just wanted my Chaggie dammit! We'd make terrible youtube reactors with all the pausing and discussing mid-episode that we do...)
--and was satisfied to see that it was written by the same person, Ariel Ladensohn. Apparently she's in a sapphic relationship too and projected her own experiences whenever she wrote Vaggie and Charlie, and it must have paid off because the moments she wrote with them felt so real.
Charlie expressing her fear that even Vaggie's support and love could also be part of the lies she told was understandable considering the betrayal she felt. But immediately following that she goes "Oh that's a horrible to thing to think!" which I love even more. Even when she's understandably mad she thinks about how Vaggie would feel over Charlie thinking that of her. Because although Vaggie lied about who she is, Vaggie was always sincere about how she felt for Charlie. Vaggie's past may have been a lie, but the things she did for, to, and on behalf of Charlie were very real and held dear in Charlie's heart.
I dont have anything smart to say to conclude this. Sorry, I'm not even sure where I went here. Let's all just appreciate the smile Charlie has on her face when she thinks about Vaggie even when she's under a lot of stress I guess.
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Pretty much how he's doing in Part 6 tbh lmao
Haunted by the horrors, the death of his best friend, said dead best friend being replaced by a monster, hunting alternates every other month, going to therapy, taking his meds, and somehow trying to hold a job at a local gas station to make his half of the rent. Life is... going. It's certainly going sdjgkjdfgfd
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it honestly frustrates me when i see people reduce the ericsons cast down to "just some teens in the woods" acting like theyre no different than any other group of lone teenagers from other existing properties and treating them like an overused trope
it is sooo important to acknowledge the "troubled youth" aspect of the whole equation. theyre not just some random teens in the woods clem stumbles across. these kids were abandoned by their families for their various "difficulties" and fucked up by The System before the outbreak even began. and then once zombies started roaming the streets their familes never came back for them and the adults that were in charge of taking care of them just left them there to rot in that old boarding school (except for ms martin who was like their lee 🥺 the only person who ever saw them as the scared traumatized kids they were and died protecting them)
the whole aspect of them already being fucked up by the adults that controlled their lives is like.....kind of important when discussing the whole "delta is stealing kids to force them to fight in a war they have no real part in and want nothing to do with" aspect of the season. and its important when comparing them to clem and her journey of also suffering at the hands of the adults around her forcing her to become self reliant. AND its important when discussing the "just trying to build a safe home (and future) worth fighting for in this world that wants them dead" aspect of the season as well
these kids were forced to come together to survive. and a Lot of them didnt... theyre the only family they have left and you can tell that even when they argue with each other theyre still a close knit group who looks out for each other. theyre a Real family before clem even gets there (and its why what really happened with the twins and brody and marlon hits them all so especially hard)
all of this is what REALLY makes ericsons such a perfect home for clem. its a Real community of her True peers. theyre not Just teens. they mightve had a layer of safety clem never had by at least having walls to keep them safe. and having the benefit of the school being hard to find. its the only reason theyre still alive when clem shows up. but theyre also some of the only people who can Truly understand where clem and aj are coming from. and its why it hurts so much when they vote to kick them out. but its also partially why she merges back into the fold so easily when she returns. plus the fact that shes Really the only one who has any idea what shes doing. shes their rock and she makes them feel safe because underneath it all theyre still just those scared traumatized kids ("EVERYONE is scared, clem..." vi was Definitely including herself in that 'everyone'), and on some level, so is clem
they saved clementines life. and she saved theirs. "the school was supposed to help them with their trauma, now they help each other" its about the LOVE the COMMUNITY the SUPPORT!!!! and thats the shit that makes good zombie media honestly 👌
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okay posting this now because i feel like the surprise song combo was so intentional and i hope we get to hear more about it on ttpd !! the getaway car/august/other side of the door mashup got my gears turning and now i can’t get them to stop.
the common thread between those three songs is the third party — i wanted leave him i needed a reason, you weren’t mine to lose, was she worth this? — and i know that basically ever since the breakup people have wondered if joe cheated, and this seemed like it could have confirmed it. while i definitely see the evidence for that, it hasn’t quite seemed like the right fit to me, and after this surprise song combo i finally figured out why. i don’t think that the third party she was singing about in melbourne was an actual person, but the idea of a person.
a huge theme on midnights is what led her to being who she is now. she is both the anti-hero and bejeweled, a mastermind and the unreliable narrator in dead reader… there are so many different versions of herself. clearly she was contemplating these different versions and the implications of being each of them.
a huge theme in gothic literature are characters that are not present in the setting, but the idea of them and what they would do is so strong that they end up influencing the story anyways. this happens in rebecca, the novel that inspired tolerate it, where the main character is haunted by living in the glorious shadow that rebecca cast, an impossible standard to live up to, despite the fact that rebecca died and actually, crucially, wasn’t as great as everyone made her out to be. but it doesn’t matter that she wasn’t that great or that she’s never actually there to be truly compared to because it’s the IDEA of rebecca that’s so powerful. it’s the GHOST that haunts the narrative.
and i wonder if that was part of what drove taylor and joe apart? not an actual ~other woman~ but the idea of who taylor could have been instead. all of the other versions of herself she contemplated on midnights. the third party she seemed to be singing about. even on other albums, before this, she’s contemplated what version of herself could be loved — “i’ve been the archer, i’ve been the prey, who could ever leave me darling but who could stay?” i wonder if there was an idea of taylor (a taylor that isn’t “too big to hang out”) that was so palpable, so real, that it ended up taking up the space of another person and haunting their narrative anyways? because, like the main character in rebecca, how could she live up to the idea of a perfect life?
basically: how can you say that you love someone you can’t tell has died? did you love the real me or the version of me in your head that perfectly fit into your world?
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