#shippers understand that not everyone likes ships and respect others wishes

[the-music-maniac]

I haven't watched that much of One Piece yet, so feel free to disagree with me on this analysis, but there's one thing about people's general interpretation of Sanji as a character that drives me a little nuts. And I'm saying this because even though I'm not very far along, I got spoiled for his backstory (because I refused to stop reading fanfiction even though when I first started I was like, on episode 3).

So before you continue, there are spoilers for Sanji's past.

I think people tend to ignore that the differences between Sanji's demeanor towards men vs towards women likely partially stem from severe trauma. I don't believe his actions are entirely intrinsic, its not like he was born acting like this - nor is it an unchanging immutable fact of his character, despite what a lot of people seem to believe.

And for some context on what prompted this - I'm a sanzo/zosan shipper, so I tend to crawl through the depths of the internet looking for fun little videos and fanarts, and one consistent protest I see with this ship is "Sanji DESPISES men and WORSHIPS women, there's literally no way he could EVER be attracted to men or want to date a man he HATES them."

Which bothers me outside of any arguments about Sanji's sexuality or even about any ships - which I will get to in a second - because that interpretation of Sanji assumes his actions are just there for no reason. Sanji hates men, therefore he hates all men with no exceptions, and he will always hate men. Sanji loves all women, therefore he will always worship every single woman he meets. I dunno, I think it's just a very surface level understanding of who he is, and relies on setting a rule for no reason and just sticking to it, as if it's just a mere quirk of his character with no backing to it.

Sanji's first interaction with any people, was in the form of his biological family, as is the case with most of us. Specifically, his father and brothers, who abused him and didn't even treat him like a person, and his mother and sister, who were the only people that treated him with kindness and saw his humanity. Tbh, he reminds me of the way women who have experienced trauma from men act - a general dislike/disdain and distrust for them (for good reason). And I don't doubt Sanji's overall elevation of women was only hammered home by the fact that his first ever father figure - arguably the first man who's treated him with kindness - teaching him the lesson to always respect women. His very illogical need to never fight women probably partially comes from the events in his life, and because it's not just a two dimensional arbitrary rule established for his character - there can be exceptions and growth.

We already know this, because despite Sanji's general disdain of men as a whole, he is capable of caring/loving men that he personally knows. He loves Zeff, and he loves his nakama - some of whom are MEN. Like, it's right there??? In the same way a woman who has experienced violence at the hands of a man probably still has family and friends or even a significant other that they love and care about that are men.

Like if you're using his demeanor towards the different genders as an "aha got you" argument for why Sanji couldn't possibly be queer, its not as strong of an argument as you think it is.

And if we're operating under the assumption that Sanji partially acts like this because of trauma, it brings up quite a few interesting arguments about his sexuality and potential romantic partners.

Which segways into sanzo/zosan, since admittedly I got into this entire debacle because I was looking into fanart (non-shippers feel free to click away now if you wish, I get that not everyone likes the ship, which is valid).

I don't think Sanji's actions means he couldn't be bisexual. Cause I'm bisexual, and you know what would make me very very keen to ignore all my attraction to one specific gender? If I had multiple instances of that gender hurt me severely. In fact I'm not so certain I don't experience that, because while I haven't had anything super bad happen to me, I hear about things in the news, about friends and family who have been harmed, interacted with men who have talked down to me, and I definitely went through a phase in my younger years where i just refused to consider men as a possibility for a romantic partner, because I was just so so angry. And I'm not saying Sanji doesn't like women in truth, because he absolutely does. He's both attracted to them and likes them. But that doesn't eliminate the possibility that he might also be attracted to men, or other non-binary genders. In fact the more he doth protest, and puts on a show when he sees a pretty woman, the more I'm sure he's in denial. Internalized homophobia can also be a bitch. Contrary to making me think Sanji is absolutely straight, the way he acts in the show actually puts me the opposite way.

I've heard Sanji also has an interesting relationship with gender and may be genderqueer but I don't know as many details about that yet, so I'll skip it for now. But regardless, I look at Sanji and go "I don't think this is a traditionally cishet character."

Of course, this is by far not the only interpretation you can have of Sanji. It could be that he's traumatized and also heterosexual. That's absolutely fine. But my overall point here is that I don't think what we see in canon negates the possibility that Sanji can be queer.

As to why I like Zosan in relation to this:

1. First, a relatively minor thing, I enjoy the sheer amount of bickering/fighting. People hold that up as a reason to not like the ship and I'm like, my dude that's one of the only reasons why I'm here. My love language is annoying the people you love and occasionally having homoerotic battles. duh.

2. Zoro is one of the aforementioned men that Sanji cares about, one of the exceptions to his "men are horrible" thing. Like they argue and fight a lot, sure, but you're not convincing me that they don't love each other. In whatever capacity - platonic or romantic - is up to your interpretation. Sanji loves all of his nakama, that's not really something I see as up for debate.

3. I honestly believe that until Sanji gets a less extreme viewpoint of the different genders - he won't be able to be in a healthy romantic relationship with a woman. For one thing, I know Sanji has self worth issues for days. For another thing, his hero worship for women as a whole - his refusal to fight women, even when they're actively trying to harm him - I don't see that translating well to a relationship. Moreover, I can see it being exhausting for the woman he ends up with, to always be treated like she's made of glass or agreed with, regardless of what she says.

Essentially, he wouldn't really treat that relationship as a partnership between equals, and I think when that happens, you run the risk of the individuals hurting each other, even on accident. Of course, we can also see this as a facet of his character with exceptions and possibility for personal growth. Maybe if he gets with a girl he'll grow and learn and still end up in a good relationship. You could also just interpret his demeanor as over the top flirting that he'll reign back in for an actual serious relationship. Sky's the limit when it comes to fandom interpretations.

But because of this, regardless, I just don't see any potential between the female characters I've met and Sanji. What I do see potential in, is Zoro. Here is actually a character Sanji not only trusts to watch his back, is on equal footing with, but is also unafraid to speak his mind and fight with. He doesn't walk on eggshells or worship the ground Zoro walks on, he has no qualms about defending himself if Zoro crosses a line. That is what a relationship can be built on.

4. Zoro has a contrasting way of interacting with women that I find super interesting. He comes off as the kind of character that doesn't actually care about the gender of the person he's fighting or interacting with - he cares about their ability. Which kinda explains his reactions when he hears Kuina's thoughts about being a girl - and I think Tashigi as well if I'm remembering correctly. There could be a clash of beliefs there that might be quite interesting. I know Zoro and Sanji do fight about how they talk to women, but I meant like something not just played off for laughs. Maybe there is something like that later in the show, who knows, I'm still early on.

5. Again the entire reason why I like enemies to lovers is the need for personal growth. I heard someone say that Zoro would be fine with being in love with a boy if it wasn't Sanji, and Sanji would be fine with being in love with Zoro if he wasn't a boy, and man do I think that's accurate. And here's the crux of the matter - in order for them to get together, they need to get over their hang-ups. Sanji needs to unpack the ten million tons of trauma he keeps repressed under his curly noggin, and Zoro needs to figure out why Sanji rubs him the wrong way. That shit is INTERESTING. People forget that the reason why this trope is so popular is BECAUSE it's a fixer upper - there's work to do. Nothing is perfect. It may even be a little toxic. That's the appeal.

Anyways this is getting TOO LONG. Thanks for reading!

#sanji blackleg; trauma; and his relationship to men and women: an essay #one piece #sanji blackleg #analysis #roronoa zoro #sanzo #zosan #sanji x zoro #zoro x sanji #bisexual sanji blackleg #potentially genderqueer sanji blackleg #zoro and sanji's differing interactions with women are just quite interesting #i headcanon zoro as gay cause that man has never shown interest in a woman from what I've seen so far

[megaderping]

Saw a rather mean post last night, and genuinely, I do not understand how people can play Persona 5 (particularly Royal), and come out thinking Akechi genuinely hates Joker when Morgana outright states for the audience, "You don't really hate Joker, do you?" Akechi laments how they didn't meet a few years earlier and how they could've been "great rivals, perhaps even friends." o_O Like... is this a vanilla thing? I genuinely don't get it. The interrogation room wasn't even his idea (SIU director mentions as much). It's not even about the ship- the game spells out that their bond is more complex, and it just so happens that a lot of people like to explore it as one. Even as platonic, tho, there's a shit ton of depth. Idk, any time I see discourse (especially people making fun of Shuake fans and stuff), I just question how many people actually paid attention to the dialogue. Even the "I hate you speech" reads as him being extremely emotionally constipated and conflicted. Plus, y'know...

Very hateful. Sure. :p Idk, maybe certain playthroughs of the game remove all those moments where the game spells out that they have a special bond (Maruki even states it isn't based on hatred, but that's only if you get his third awakening). Just wish people would get off their high horses, if anything. Sometimes I see people get really condescending about liking Akechi or liking Shuake, and like... just block the tags if you don't like these things instead of posting untagged ship/character bashing and making fun of fans? At least have the decency to tag it as something that Shuake fans can filter because some of those posts are really mean-spirited. :/ You think we haven't heard it all before? I may be new to the fandom, but I have heard that this BS has been going on for years.

I don't think it really matters if there are "healthier" ship options because some of us prefer the messiness, the depth, and complexity. It's not for everyone, and I respect favoring more straightforwardly sweet and wholesome dynamics or wishing your favorite pair got more spotlight. I'm a Riku and Kairi shipper in Kingdom Hearts, for crying out loud. :P I get it, but you're not gonna win anyone over to your side by telling them that [insert ship here] is better. In my case, it makes me more averse because of how deeply their relationship in the confidant, engine room, and third sem touched me and seeing people go "yeah, but you are wrong for feeling that way, THIS is better" is just... yeah. :/ (Also, people gotta learn the difference between hitmen and serial killers. Akechi is the former, which I've ranted about before, but yeah.)

So many fandom problems could be solved if people didn't take the piss out of others for shipping something they don't personally like. x_x; By all means, feel the way you feel, it's okay to not like things.

#goro akechi #persona 5 #persona #persona 5 joker #joker p5 #akira kurusu #ren amamiya #not naming names but the amount of times i see people shit on shuake fans while ignoring blatant dialogue in the game #i was just trying to look for cool akechi posts last night #every time people make fun of shuake fans i like the other joker ships less and less tbh #the ship and the character mean so much to me #discourse

[pansear-doodles]

Sent to RW discord

For the past days (or weeks) I've been nothing but shipping trash. This is normal for me as I've always been the "shippy person" in the past. Probably not for this fandom and probably not for everyone but we're all acclimating here.

Some of you might find my influence the big "uh oh fandom getting big and we're going to see its downfall" or somethings like that, and while it is true that at paces like these fandoms DO get big, that is a factor that I have no control over, whether or not I am present. Granted you may think otherwise, but I am literally one of many artists and there are others who far more excel the skill at drawing and sluggying than I do. (And even played and finished the game)

I understand raising concerns, but everything that I'm doing so far- NOTHING is against the rules, and I will stand by whatever I'm doing for as long as I keep whatever I create maintained the best I can (and for as long as I'm having fun and doing no harm).

I'm sorry that some of you find it annoying. I'm sorry that shipping discourse can breach places that shouldn't be. Why am I sorry? Well I don't like making people uncomfortable in general and I don't want people to think I'm intentionally ruining the fandom or other negative assumptions.

I draw because I WANT to and the people have the option to ignore or be inspired by me. It is THEIR choice. I'm not seriously forcing the shipping agenda on anyone despite my shenanigans. I'm not shifting the blame on people who breach shipping discussions outside of the art channels (This whole thing is the reason why a shipping thread is created). Believe me when I say that Rain World Shippers aren't going to ruin the game itself because we are just a minority that's only recently had more prominence. We are NOT changing the canon because we KNOW what we are doing will never BE canon. Its all just fanfics and fun stuff.

I strongly feel that since I made this whole thing happen, I want to be sure that there's a line drawn and keep this subfandom maintained. Its easier said than done because of how I'm put on a pedestal and so many eyes are watching me (and that idea continues to give me anxiety seriously you have no idea how much I'm shaking right now), but I'll be really sure that I don't end up like… one of those people.

We, the RW shipping subfandom, will go do our own thing. You, the nonshipping fandom, will go do yours. Let's respect each others' presence despite sharing the same space. That is my biggest wish for the fandom I genuinely enjoy being and making drawings for since day one.

Anyway enough of my weird silly ramblings, have some artihunter.

#artihunter #fanart #rain world #rainworld downpour #rainworld #rain world downpour #slugcat #artificer #hunter

[madara-fate]

Hey Mads congrats on your marriage and wedding hope you had fun and enjoyed yourself 😊😊😊😊

Now I have a bit of a rant hope you don't mind hearing me out, as we know the Naruto fandom is just for lack of a better term just a mess as you also know I'm both a Sasuke and Sakura fan individually and together so here's my thing I'm sure you already have noticed and I know you spoke on this before but the hypocrisy is just mind boggling within this fandom for one I'm not the biggest Naruhina fan but I still respect it and like it just fine, but the constant back and forth war between Sakura and Hinata Stans is so irritating and tiring and I hate to say it feels like self inserts at this point and just as Sakura hate is forced so is the Hinata hate. For one fans act as if Sakura was in competition with Hinata for Naruto when Sakura never wanted him in the first place or had eyes for him at all and she unequivocally supported Hinata and her feelings canonically and also the glaring hypocrisy of say certain so called "Sasusaku fans" who ship NaruSaku and Sakura with just about everyone but throw a tantrum online when anyone mentions SasuHina or SasuIno SasuNaru and any other Sasuke related ship that's not Sakura related which I believe you can ship what you want but the fact that even on Twitter you have SasuHina fans getting harassed and made fun of for harmlessly shipping the 2 only for these so called "SasuSaku" shippers to turn around say it's perfectly fine to ship NaruSaku or just as bad KakaSaku or worse that if Sasuke never married Sakura he'd just be alone and simping over Sakura and that she had many options and would easily just move on but somehow he'd be regretful of not choosing her and would have no one as if he isn't canonically one of the most sought after characters it's such an annoying double standard I wish they'd just come out as multishippers and admit they don't understand either character and their personalities or development instead of causing so much unnecessary drama with other fans it's like they completely erase who Sakura and Sasuke are to fit whatever narrative or headcanon they have and it completely misses the point of the characters.

Then when they headcanon either one of them as sadistic cheaters who would try to make the other one jealous or humiliate one another Sasuke or Sakura it's such disservice to who the characters actually are individually and together in canon with "fans" like these who needs antis they do it for free.

Your rant hit the nail on the head.

Also, the Sasuke stan in me just has to say one more thing...

as if he isn't canonically one of the most sought after characters

Sasuke isn't just one of the most sought after characters, he is canonically the most sought after character! 😁

Just putting that out there ^_^

#Sasuke Uchiha #Sakura Haruno #sasusaku

[maoam]

I'm sorry for this long ass ask. I just wished to get a bit this out of my chest. Feel free to delete it if you would want to feel a bit more positive!

As you said once, if I remember correctly, there is no one more mysoginistic in fandoms (especially shonen) than the het shippers rather than the "fujoshis." In my personal experience, at least, I rarely have seen people hate a girl because she is in the way of their mlm pairing. But I have seen in het ships women be especially vile with their words like slut shaming, body shaming (flat chest vs busty discourses).

Especially in the Naruto fandom, I don't understand why NH and SS stans have to be on the march of war against each other, or why pit their favs against each other when they clearly are "not in the way" of their respective pairings, or even harass all other ships. In fact, I Hinata and Sakura are even in friendly terms. If not outright, they don't care about each other's existence for most of the time, I think?? So why so much catty?

Sometimes, I visit NH/SS/NaruSaku blogs out of curiosity, without doing anything but looking. Usually their content is all about shitting on other pairings but just that. They don't support other creators who appreciate the pairings, like writers or artists. Just shit on the rival pairing while be like "unlike that shit, this pairing has sense and is better". Like, they are more obsessive about what they hate rather than what they love. Absurd.

I have seen people call Sakura a cumdumpster (I swear to god that word-) and Sarada a hoe/slut, and considering Sarada is like 12 to 16 years old... well, it weirds me out. Or shame on the fact Hinata is a busty woman and usually that's the only bad thing they can say about her that comes to my mind, along with other slut shaming.

Or the weird obsession Sakura fans have about Sakura's body, like "THIS IS WHY SHE IS NOT FLAT." Why do you care so much if she's beautiful anyway?

I can go long but I won't because it sounds kinda frustrating.

But why can't these people just... stay in their planes? And ignore each other? Or if they love their one true pairing, just support artists or recommend fan fictions they like, or heck do something themselves and create a more positive environment not only for the fandoms but for themselves as well. Because most of the time, they go on anti - or pro tags and just harass people who think differently like they do with you or sneezemonster-

Again, sorry for the rant, and thank you if you had the patience of reading. Bless your day and keep doing what you do! What you write is always interesting to read <3

People mistake fujoshis (or just people who ship gay pairings) complaining about the het ships having no mutual development/how the female character in said ship has no individual development/revolves only around the guy she likes as "hating on the female character/misogyny". Which it isn't. Sure there might be couple who are misogynists, but that really isn't what I usually see. Meanwhile het shippers are indeed very vile in their ship wars.

"I don't understand why NH and SS stans have to be on the march of war against each other, or why pit their favs against each other when they clearly are "not in the way" of their respective pairings"

Because to them shipping is also a contest, and everyone is their competitor. They need to show everyone how they ship the best ship or how "their girl" is the best girl of the show. NH will talk about how Hinata is more "fertile" than Sakura (which is really misogynistic), how she is the heiress, how she is the richest girl in Konoha (lol). All very shallow things, none of them she even earned. And SS will go out of their way to "prove" Sakura is better looking than the other Naruto girls, because somehow that matters more than Sakura not having any dignity in the story... And yes, SS's crazy need to prove Sakura is not flat, sometimes they straight up edit Kishimoto's drawings so she would have a bigger chest.

This is also why these especially crazy people don't flock to shojo as much, since shojo doesn't usually have as big of a mainstream audience as shonen. And maybe they are addicted to one-sided interaction, because they relate to it? They can't relate to a female character that has reasonable feelings?

But yeah, recently I have seen a lot of Historia hate and it's all "she's spreading her legs to the farmer", "Whorestoria", "even her whore mother didn't like her", "blonde whore" and so on from certain het ship fandom. But sure fujoshis are the worst ones for saying Mikasa's character revolved too much around Eren...

#anon #fandom stuff

[badgerhuan]

throwing you mitsurugi and itonokogiri

*slams hands on desk* HELL YEAH LET'S GOOOOOO

Mitsurugi Reiji

Sexuality Headcanon: he is the single most aroace character i have ever seen in my entire life. and he is both touch-averse and sex-repulsed you can't change my mind.

Gender Headcanon: cis man

A ship I have with said character: mitsunoko my BELOVED. also very fond of qpr narumitsunoko with Naruhodou being the one coming into the relationship late.

A BROTP I have with said character: Mitsurugi's relationship with Mei is. so good. they're the most siblings ever. I also quite enjoy his relationship with Mikumo and with Mayoi!!

A NOTP I have with said character: non-qpr naru/mitsu......i'm sorry but. they would never.

A random headcanon: i'd say he's autistic but that's like. pseudo-canon anyway. so, i do think that he genuinely believes that Itonokogiri just really really likes soumen and doesn't quiet get the implications of the detective having soumen for every meal.

General Opinion over said character: i've been meaning to get into gyaketen saiban for like YEARS and i always was curious about MItsurugi's character, but damn i never expected to love him this much. he's had one of the best character developments/arcs in any franchise that i can think of and it makes me emotional how far he's come. i love him.

Itonokogiri Keisuke

Sexuality Headcanon: asexual but doesn't know it. messed around with sex when he was young, didn't understand what the big deal about it was, and never thought about it ever again.

Gender Headcanon: LISTEN i haven't given it much thought but.......i have the vague ideas of a trans man Itonokogiri in my brain..............

A ship I have with said character: same as above!!! and i also really really love the idea of narunoko at first starting to look out for each other for Mitsurugi's sake, but then growing closer and having genuine affection and concern for each other down the line.

A BROTP I have with said character: i adore his relationship with Mikumo, and honestly i think the mutual affection and respect between him and Mako is really sweet. i want them to be friends forever. 🥺

A NOTP I have with said character: i've seen people ship him with Mei and that was an instant Nope hahaha. i wish those shippers the best tho.

A random headcanon: he 100% has undiagnosed ADHD.

General Opinion over said character: hands down my favorite character in the franchise. the Itonokogiri i know and love from consuming the japanese version of the games is. so fundamentally different from the Gumshoe most of the english-speaking fans know from the localization. i respect and support their Gumshoe but he's like. an alternate universe version of Itonokogiri. i don't think i can forgive the localization for stripping so much of what made me fall in love with him. his acceptance that everyone never gets his name right (except for Mitsurugi). his -ssu speech quirk. his use of "jibun" as a first person pronoun. him canonically being good at shogi!!! HIS NAME BEING A DELIBERATE PARALLEL TO MITSURUGI'S MADE BY TAKUMI SHU. i love him so much and i mourn that a huge portion of the fandom will never get to know him.

#roch answers #gyakuten saiban #mitsurugi reiji #itonokogiri keisuke #mitsunoko #twotwinks #mt #i love them so much.

[sushicha]

I'm feeling very grateful for Shourtney right now! This has nothing to do with the ship, but everything to do with Shayne and Courtney and how they've helped me grow as a person!

So growing up, my parents weren't very strong influences in my personal development, so I always tell people I was practically raised by the internet and was obsessed with YouTube since I was 8 years old (I'm 24 now...). But I've spent so much of my life surfing through garbage trying to find positive influences. There were times I was almost sucked into the alt-right pipeline, and even though I was eventually guided to the left, I made it through so much shit that I'm still unpacking a lot of the bullshit I consumed...

Rediscovering Smosh and the cast was a GODSEND! Not only is Smosh non-problematic and left-leaning, it's a COMEDY GROUP? Y'all have no idea how rare that is... so many creators out there whose sense of humor is being as offensive and edgy as possible. I just like silly content, dude. And Smosh is IT, man. Their stuff was cool back when it was Ian and Anthony, but modern Smosh is just SOOOOO good 😭

I was in an extremely toxic work environment for the last 4 years (toxic masculinity, homophobia, racism, misogyny, you name it...), and I'm so glad I rediscovered Smosh around that time. I became obsessed and watched everything they put out because it was in such stark contrast to the environment I was in.

Shayne became my biggest influence because he's so outwardly not a toxic masculine man. Very respectful, very understanding, very uplifting, just trying to make everyone laugh and feel good about themselves. I know he's pretty traditionally masculine, but I'm also that way and I just can't stand how many men get sucked into this idea of never showing emotion, never being vulnerable, hating the powerless, hating anything remotely considered feminine... he's none of that. I've spent my entire adult life trying to purge all my internalized misogyny and toxic traits (it's not easy!) and he's been such a great influence in that way. And his influence over my sense of humor has been GALACTIC. His humor isn't at anyone's expense but (sometimes) himself, and that's the best way to be funny is to just be as silly and ironic of an entertainer as possible. It's everything I aspire to be. I just wish he dressed a little better sometimes, LMAO 💀

If Shayne is my yang, Courtney is my yin! Courtney represents everything I've come to love and appreciate about personal growth, self-expression, and femininity (even though I know they're NB). They're SO weird and SO not afraid to be themself, even at the risk of seeming "cringe". But I freaking love it, dude! It takes so much pressure off of trying to be perfect and fit into everyone's box, and I think that's what makes them so funny and entertaining! They're so... authentic. And Courtney's always the one to uplift the vibes, to bounce off people's energy, to bring out everyone's potential. They have this natural charisma that makes it insanely difficult not to want them to be in every video. And they've grown SO MUCH in the last 4 years! You would think 2018 Courtney vs. 2022 Courtney are completely different people! Getting to witness that change in real-time was soooo epic. And them understanding their own identity helped me reevaluate my own understanding of gender, masculinity, and femininity. I'm still cishet, but I think it's important that everyone have a thorough understanding of themselves and Courtney got me to explore those questions more than I ever would have.

Putting Shayne and Courtney in a room together makes actual magic, y'all. Everything I just said about them individually, put that TOGETHER. PLACE AN EXPONENT AT THE END OF THAT SHIT 👏 They bring out the best in each other, and it makes for some of the most entertaining shit. Like yes, I'm a Shourtney shipper, but dating or not, they are an unrivaled duo and I'm here for every minute of it.

Y'all, I was DEVASTATED when they cancelled Smoshcast. I listened to it every week at work because it was so refreshing listening to such intelligent and adorable humans talk about life vs. the sea of brainless testosterone I was drowning in 😓 AND COULD YOU IMAGINE SMOSHCAST NOW??? A BRAND NEW COURTNEY, ALL THESE NEW CAST AND CREW MEMBERS, ALL THE STORIES THEY WOULD HAVE TO MAKE UP FOR LOST TIME??? I get why they cancelled Smoshcast, they want to focus on other stuff, but man, it still hurts 🥺 I'M FINE

ok RANT OVER, GO AWAY 😌❤️

#shartney #shourtney #smosh #shayne topp #courtney miller

[sneezemonster15]

Writing Sakura and Hinata in character would make ppl think you hate them for being in the way of your yaoi ship. They gonna put you in the mysoginist box as Kishimoto because "How dare you give those innocents pretty girls any flaws?! They just want to love their men, they are doing nothing wrong!"

I'm tired of reading fics where Sakura is understanding as soon as she learns about SNS secret relationship. Tired of people showing Hinata being understanding and moving on fast and finding a new man (often Kiba) as if she wouldnt cry herself to death because Naruto-kun dont love her.

Wished fanfic writers explored more about Sakura's loneliness and her regret and frustration. On one side, she is happy to be "married" to Sasuke but on the other side, deep down, she is probably feeling fucking lonely and stupid because he is never home and ppl probably talks behind her back about her husband who is never home and who probably cheat on her, and how she looks so miserable.

Like, lets be realistic.

My headcanon is that Sasuke hopes that the distance he puts between them will finally makes Sakura snaps and "cheat" on him while he is absent. He realized he will never be free as long as she dont realize herself bc she is too selfish to notice her "husband"is unhappy by her side.

I find it very ironic when female fans fight for these two ladies. Like when they self insert into these women, what do they get out of it? It's so masochistic. Ss and Nh have no love to speak of. None. But the force of wish fulfilment is so strong with these fans, they would gladly ignore or dismiss everything canon. And while I understand people would do a lot to preserve something that gives them so much pleasure, including denying things left and right without an iota of introspection or soul searching, the fact that they deny something that actually is of worth (SNS), that is emblematic of selfless love and devotion, that is a result of one of the most heart rending, impactful and meaningful love stories ever written in the history of fiction, it just breaks my heart and inflames it with rage at the same time. I just get very emotional. It's cruel to my boys. It's fucking unfair. They don't deserve this. It's fucking disrespectful to them. And when antis just run their mouths without understanding their story or their characterization or what it means to people who do understand them, I feel like ripping them apart. But also, requesting them to be more....human? More emotionally generous? More honest? To search within their own hearts as to what it really means to be that lonely and to finally find love in the other that everyone else denied them, including their own families? Anything that works.

How can they be so cruel to my boys? It's their story at the end of the day. Like what did Kishi even miss? He went to hell and back, he left no stones unturned to tell their story. But fans would just....dismiss it and demean it and disrespect it and call shippers delusional and horny and whatnot...and for what? Hinata and Sakura? Those two, that in almost any other media, would definitely be condemned for their actions and general behaviour, not just towards the boys but others? But because they weren't here, for obvious reasons, they are being venerated as some female role models that they are actually the opposite of?

Mind boggles. It ain't done man. Not if I have a say in it. Not here.

I agree that Sakura feels lonely and bereft. But she still hasn't done anything to change things. Which shows that she doesn't want to, because having Sasuke as a trophy is way more important to her than being loved and respected. Or even liked. She married his status, and she would rather live with the glory that 'achievement' bestows on her than doing anything to actually make herself and her family truly happy.

Both Sakura and Hinata are too self absorbed to notice how unhappy their husbands are with them. And neither one cares. If they really loved them, they would have strived to actually know them, because neither Sasuke nor Naruto are dishonest people. Naruto almost always wears his emotions on his sleeve. Sasuke also lets it show when he is happy and fulfilled. We have seen both of them when they were happy and now, when they are sad and dejected. And we can tell the difference. And if these ladies had bothered to do that, they would have never gotten married to them. But they weren't written to be that way. Not in their characters. From the start. So now we have this mess of a situation and no one is happy. Well, Hinata is. Because she is just way too selfish and oblivious and dumb to understand anything that doesn't directly concern her.

#ask #naruto #sns #sasunaru #narusasu #sasuke #anti nh #anti ss #anti hinata #anti sakura #anti ending #anti boruto

[originsradio]

for the ask game :0

sootbur jaihera and quackbur maybe

GRINNIGNNR

Sootbur since you didn't specify Which One i'm going to do revghost because they are my favourites

What made you ship it?: Honestly. i think we've shipped it for literal ages but the only reason we started being an Active shipper of revghost is because of two headmates (mars (revivebur) and mercury (ghostbur)) being absolute FAGS so we just kind of embraced it What are your favorite things about the ship?: I love how they compliment each other in opposite ways. The easiest way to describe it is like Complimentary colours. A sharp red to a soothing blue. They're so different but they work perfectly together. I like how they would have complications due to Ghostbur hearing so much about the bad things Alivebur did (and very little of the good, if i'm recalling lore correctly) he would probably not have such a great idea on what Alivebur was even actually like. But in my personal hc (and fictive source memories) i feel that when Ghostbur actually met Alivebur in limbo he might have gotten to see what made Alivebur even do all that shit. He'd understand. Ghostbur would give Alivebur the patience and respect he'd needed. And Alivebur probably wouldn't have liked Ghostbur at first, maybe he would have been hostile or rude to him, but Alivebur would have realized that Ghostbur would not have been out to get him, like he had assumed everyone was. I don't know. They're kind of silly to me Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?: I don't have any unpopular opinions i can think of off the top of my head so i'll just say they fucked in that train station

q!Jaihera

What made you ship it?: I'm gonna have to blame the headmates again. q!Jaiden and q!Baghera fictives fell in love and well now we're collectively insane about canon Jaihera What are your favourite things about the ship?: MAN I DON'T. EVEN KNOW HOW TO WORD IT. I can barely focus on any qsmp lore so this might not be as long since i literally have no idea whats happening ever. Anyways They're the sun and the moon and they're each others' stars. When they met they were immediately attached to each other and, assuming i've remembered the lore properly, they grew up as literal child experiments together. They've bonded. They've literally had to go through the Horrors that is QSMP Purgatory together. They've gone through so much and they've stuck together, of course minus the fact q!Baghs has been missing for.. quite a few weeks now. I'm really excited to see them reunite when Baghera comes back to qsmp, and when QSMP comes back in general. They've got a similar-adjacent? trope of Complimenting each other like opposite colours, but it's more of a Soft yellow compared to a deep purple. They've got the same wants and needs and they work together to get it. Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?: i think the ship itself is an unpopular opinion. it's like me and 5 other people who ship it and im like the only /r jaihera shipper

c!Quackbur Doing c!tnt because i don't have a lot to say on qtnt SORRY . she her pronouns 4 cwilbur in this btw

What made you ship it?: I mean. Have you seen them. I've shipped them for literal years i don't even remember what made me start in the first place What are your favourite things about the ship?: GODD literally everything. i wish i could word it in a comprehensible fashion but they are SO terrible for each other in the best way possible and i love that for them. cWilbur is the lamest girl around and cQuackity decided that He Needed Her. Silly tone tag. Q met Wilbur when she was planning the fuckinf election party or whatever it was and he started his own Party Just to Piss Her Off. They're like. Unstoppable object vs Unstoppable object. They piss each other off to no end but they are actually STUPID in love with each other and it's so entertaining to think about. Fuck you @ sootings for the "psychocompetitive" relationship LOVE WINS YOU FUCKINF COWARD!!! I wish i had more to say but GGAAHH i'm crazy and cannot makr comprehensive thoughts about them at all Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?: It's not really an opinion on the ship itself, it's more of on the people that ship it, but While i absolutely adore cQuackbur, i do not particularly like how a lot of the quackbur fans make liking wilbur Quackity's Only personality trait. Like. He is a very complicated character and while yes him and wilbur are gay as FUCK that is not his only character trait and i do not enjoy how cq is treated by a lot of the fandom

(ask game ask game ask game PLEASE send me asks for this)

#long post #<- I GUESS???? #revghost #ctntduo #qjaihera

[glittering-snowfall]

You like making people who don't like incest in general or are disgusted by the thing you all turned Elsa and Anna's bond into your personal haters, constantly weaponzing one(bad and stupid) or two screenshots. But most of the time there's nothing personal. Disliking/criticizing this ship doesn't mean that your personality is under the threat. The screenshot with "it's just a familial/platonic art" and the person who suspected Elsanna in the art is absolutely innocent, nothing offensive there if you understand that incest is not for everyone and people have the right to ask what is going on.

You really don't know me, do you, anon? I have defended people's right to dislike the ship continually in the past. I have supported individuals who dislike the ship and I respect the fact that not everyone wants to see Elsanna content, that is why I have two blogs. The two blogs are there because I realize "incest is not for everyone" and I want to be supportive and compassionate towards ALL people, including people who personally dislike my ship.

Disliking/criticizing a ship is one thing, but telling shippers to die is another. Telling them to shove swords down their throat is another. Saying you want them trampled to death is another (and yes, this is in relation to a famous meme, but the sentiment is still brutal.) Someone stalking me personally and hounding others to "expose" me is another (also, I would count that one as kind of personal, since it WAS directed at me specifically.)

I am not saying that "all people who dislike incest in general or are disgusted" by the ship are like this. The fact that other KA shippers who similarly dislike Elsanna supported me when that one person stalked and harassed me PROVES they are not, PROVES that people can dislike a thing and still have some sense of decency. (At the same time, I've also been mistrusted and emotionally manipulated by KA shippers, even by some of the people who stuck up for me there, so.)

But don't I have the right, anon, to criticize the people who DO behave this way? OBVIOUSLY, not everyone who dislikes a ship is like this, but the people who are deserve to be held accountable.

As for the screenshot you mentioned, it isn't in the same category as the other things I have mentioned, but if the mere sight of the sisters near each other in a piece of fanart that could easily be interpreted as snow sisters is enough to make you think, "This is an incest red flag," then you should probably take a step back.

Likewise, if you're going to call out someone (another blogger, the one referenced in the screenshot calling the ship "p*d*ph*l*a" when it isn't) who has cleansed their blog and not shipped it in years, then you do not care about righteousness, you are just being cruel.

And if you want people to die (even as a joke) then you're cruel. I can't change you but I have every right to dislike your behavior. How would people react if I put "__________ shippers die!" on my blog or fantasized cruelties done unto other shippers?

If I did that, you wouldn't be defending me for "disliking/criticizing a ship but not personally attacking."

And even if it WERE only two examples, anon (it's not, it's been more than that since the beginning) people have a right to talk about the hostility, the "jokey" death wishes. Even if it there WERE only a few of them.

I also think it's telling that you gloss over the more openly cruel examples to focus on the tamer one. Convenient for you.

#elsanna

[mickmundy]

tbh i don't understand how or why people think spy is Mean Spirited or like. Diabolical. i think he's Dry as a person (sarcastic, a bit standoffish) but in nearly every piece of media we've seen he's actually been very kind and helpful...? and not just to scout...

he's super kind to/patient with soldier

he helps sniper in the comics (who also then helps him in return. soooooo i dont get where people think they hate each other either lol. but i digress. i could make a whole other post about my sniperspy thoughts tbh!)

in expiration date he comes up with the last wish thing to lift everyones spirits

he's still on great terms with scout's mom (whether theyre together or not is up to Fans ig but either way)

is on an at-least-friendly basis with heavy, calling him by his first name which not even medic does(?)

is protective of/respects miss pauling

like just because he's not Loud About It doesn't mean he isn't kind... he's stoic and collected but he's not devoid of feelings... his entire "Teaching Montage" with scout in ed is that you have to earn the respect of your lovers.... like are we seeing the same character here or?

i think spy would be a great friend And an incredible partner... its cool if he's not your type obviously but to say he's like... selfish or a douchebag... idk i don't see it.... and i think the way he talks to scout (calling him a failure, "asking out the dial tone i see" etc) is just him breaking scouts balls, like scout does to spy in return... im firm in my belief that spy, scout's mom and scout all have the same "lovingly breaking your balls" banter with each other and their loved ones because that's just How They Are... mwah

also i don't get the fanon choice of making spy this like. aggressive "sex pest" or anything like that, either. why are you making him a creep when his entire thing is respecting women/being a better person for your partner(s)... lol... i promise he's not obsessed with his nearly-30-year-old-son's sex life. you don't have to make him the villain in every shipping fic lol!!

dutch hates fanon it comes as no surprise (<- bushmedicine shippers Understand SKDFKSDF) As Usual write whatever you want however you want etc etc etc im just Thinking Out Loud!

#eternally battling with twitters character limit sorry for Fuckheaded formatting #dutchfoolery #dutchiehcs #not tagging this one idrc

[2brosstandingupwhilegaming]

Addressing a post that *totally* wasn’t directed at me /s

(NOTE: I will not be making any more posts like this unless it is absolutely necessary, because I really don’t like doing them. I simply thought this would be a good opportunity to clarify some things about our server and the people in it.)

Okay, so…

This is a response to @hoshaguma / @hoshathecrasher .

First of all, anyone who wants to talk about me/this account is free to do so while addressing it by name.

Actually, if you genuinely believe that what we’re doing is so harmful and dangerous, then it would probably be in your best interest to do just that. And again, if that really was the case, then nobody in their right mind would consider you addressing me/this account by name as “starting drama”.

So if that’s what you’re worried about, don’t be.

Second of all, define “unironically”.

When we say we “ship” them, we’re not literally actively pushing for any of them to start dating each other. We’re also not spreading rumors or conspiracy theories that they secretly are. Our discussions and content are simply a way for us to express and expand upon our appreciation for the dynamics between the guys, which is why we love their content so much in the first place.

Third of all, we at the “2 Bros” server respect and accept everyone’s *directly stated* boundaries.

So far, the only directly publicly stated boundary from any of the Party Crashers regarding fanart/fanfiction is Brent stating that he would rather people not create NSFW content of him. We completely understand and respect that, and if you were to look on our server you will see that we have respected his wishes.

If the Party Crashers as a group make a direct public statement that they are against the existence of shipping content of them, we will respect their wishes, and the server will be shut down, no questions asked.

However, at this point we have a collection of carefully curated and analyzed evidence to point to the idea that the guys don’t inherently object to this sort of content being made about them, as long as it’s not public.

Lastly, we acknowledge that shipping real people isn’t an appealing idea to everyone, and we accept that. Believe me, we found that out the hard way. The first and only time our group’s “activities” were made public, one of our members and anyone who even remotely looked like they were defending her received an onslaught of harassment and threatening messages. This event led to the official creation of our server, where we swore that this would never happen again.

Even though this person is no longer a member of our server, and at the time of writing this she and I are no longer friends, I still don’t condone any of the hate she received, and I wish her the best.

Actually, not everyone on the server even directly participates in the shipping. They simply don’t object to its existence. They ended up staying simply because they like the other people there. We’re not an obsessed “all shipping, all the time” cult. At the end of the day, we’re just normal people (as relative of a term as “normal” is).

I have nothing against you, Hosha. And if you really wish for me to not interact with you, that’s perfectly fine. But your insinuation that I am a basement-dwelling loser harboring some kind of parasocial obsession with the Party Crashers with no respect for or acknowledgement of them as people is a bit rude. Of course, you’re not the first person to say that sort of thing about RPF shippers, and you certainly won’t be the last.

To anybody else, if you simply want a chill and judgement-free environment to talk about the Party Crashers, or anything else you’re interested in, feel free to DM me for more information. This itty-bitty blog is as “public” as we will ever get, and its sole intention is to reach out to anyone who might be interested in joining us.

Have a great day, Party Crashers Nation!

#party crashers #RPF #real person fandom #real person shipping #this is not going to be the next Septiplier #you can quote me on that

[daylander1000]

I know a lot of people like Rhaenrya and Daemon but I don’t for many reasons, the biggest reason is that daemon groomed rhaenrya and ruined her reputation, but people think he loves her which is so funny to me. Rhaenrya has shown signs of being a spoiled brat many times she’s the time that doesn’t like the rules and doesn’t follow them but expect everyone else to do so, being the queen doesn’t give you freedom you carry the burden of responsibility of the seven kingdoms and Visersys told her that and how daemon isn’t a person who can handle that, but what does she do? Fucks him at his wife’s funeral and then marries him, and people are surprised that he choked her?? BFFR! I’m not the biggest fan of alicent but I understand her way more, she didn’t want to be queen she just followed her father’s choice and truly did believe rhaenyra would have been a great queen but rhaenyra then lied to alicent which gets her father fired (but he kinda deserved it) and even when Rhaenyra gave birth to her sons, she’s putting her self on a ship of thin ice. If ONE of Alicent’s kids came out with Brown hair even if that’s alicent’s hair color y’all know they would’ve killed her. I don’t like the double standard that Rhaenyra and Daemon and Visersys have, I’m not a team green or a black but I have more respect for the greens, not saying aegon would be a great king because he’s not but Rhaenyra isn’t the best option either. Another thing is if Viserys never was going to name aegon as king, why did he remarry and have more children if he was always going to up hold Rhaenyra?? I love Rhaena and Aemond I feel like if they were betrothed then this whole greens and blacks would end, but of course Daemon can only think of himself and a way to make his way to the throne. He doesn’t care for his family the way people think he does, he wants the throne. Wish more people would wake up and realize that. Sorry for the rant but I had to let that out.

Lol, no problem.

I didn't read F&B so I don't get the fandom war. I'm not on any team myself. If I had to pick one though, it would be the greens. Mostly because I nearly always root for the underdogs, but also because you sort of just have to go with the lesser evil if forced to choose?

I liked Rhaenyra well enough until she called for Aemond to be interrogated and fussed about her arm being scratched while Aemond was sitting there maimed for life with eye stitches.

Viserys... I think he just wanted a young girl in his bed immediately and didn't want to wait the two years for Laena to turn 14. Better the child you watched grow up alongside your daughter than some random 12 year old your cousin is trying to set you up with.

I don't have much thoughts about Daemon other than that he reminds me too much of Damon from vampire diaries. Lol. He killed his wife, got exiled for being creepy with his young niece, and then ran off to Pentos with an actual child who was 3 years younger than Rhaenyra. Like, I just imagine Laena as this girl who probably saw him as her father's cool friend from their whole Crabfeeder war, so yeah, he's just some pedo groomer wife-killer imo.

I get the need to rant. After they killed Vaemond, I was livid, but it helps to just avoid interacting with the parts of the fandom you don't enjoy. There's something about GRRM books that just brings out the worst in some people. I'm not into the whole "Targ nation"/ "Valyrian supremacy"/ "racial purity" thing, so I just stick to my little corner of AO3 and block the tags and the weirdos. 😅

Life is too short and precious to spend time being upset with shippers. HotD is not a show worth losing your peace over.

[beevean]

m, o, y, z for the fandom meme?

M - Say something genuinely nice about a ship that you don’t ship (or its shippers, or anything related to you)

Oh, a ship I don't ship is very different from a ship I dislike/hate 😂

I'm neutral on Trevor/Alucard, only because I don't really see Alucard as romantically involved with anyone, but they are very nice to each other and I love to hear them being so kind and respectful to each other in GoS, so if someone ships them romantically I perfectly understands where they're coming from <3

O - Choose a song at random, which ship or character does it remind you of

I'm very bad at this game lol. I don't choose songs: songs choose me. My music culture is too limited.

For example, my brain has decided that this is Isaactor + Hectaly and it won't hear otherwise ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)

I definitely learned quite a lot about Devil May Cry despite never touching a game myself :P

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged)

I never considered myself a shipper until recently because even back in the day, shippers used to be extremely aggressive... just in a "MY SHIP IS BETTER THAN YOURS AND YOU'RE A POOPYHEAD" way, not in a "I am literally going to send you pictures of real children being abused to punish you for the horrible crime of thinking a fictional 17 yo and a fictional 19 yo could be cute together" way.

And I'm like. I still don't get it what's about ships that makes people this rabid? What is the point of ship wars? What is the point of yearning for your OTP to be canon? Guys, you're just smacking dolls together. This is literally the kind of game 7 years old play, except that you're drawing a masterpiece for 15 hours or writing a short novella over it.

My point is, I wish I could spread the message to everyone that this is supposed to be fun. Something about two characters (or more lol) sparks an idea in your head, and then you share that idea with others finding some common grounds. That's it. That's shipping. It's not that deep. It doesn't say anything about the person, something something Umbridge effect and the other way around. There are posts circulating about little girls putting Barbies in horrible situations with a "aw aren't they much more creative than the Patriarchy assumes they are" undertone, and then the same people act like a slightly less vanilla ship is a prelude to IRL crimes.

[thegeminisage]

6, 13, 18?

HI BESTIE ty for asking sorry i didnt do it last night I Went To Bed. lets fuckin go

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

well, look, the obvious answer would be those j*hnlock truthers, and i do hope those tjlc people are having a wretched day rn wherever they are, but ACTUALLY im actually choosing atla for this just to say (sorry) i hate zu//kka SO MUCH. i hate it so much, it's unreal. i don't particularly have beef with the shippers necessarily but i think the concept is so fucking lame. it's a classic case of migratory slash fandom paired with a side of misogyny. the thought process goes like "zuko is rotting holes in my brain > want to ship him with someone > i don't want to ship him with a female character > the only one left is sokka." (even though suki is right there.) aang is out on the basis of being a baby and the rest of the gaang is girls. if you don't like zutara that's fine, but sokka/zuko is the SAME THING with less anger issues and less women. katara is kind of a devisive character to begin with (this is misogyny) but then one time i saw someone deride zutara for being "straight" to reason why shipping zuko with sokka was superior and i have never forgiven it. IT'S THE SAME SHIP. like HOW was this popular enough to PIT ZUKO/SOKKA/SUKI IN THE OT3 SEMIFINAL POLL? hello?? what were they doing there?? suki and zuko speak TWO LINES to one another! god! i guess that's better than using your ship to excuse hating suki but jesus christ it's so transparent just say you hate women and go

13. worst blorboficiation

i'm not doing this one or your other one for spn bc someone else sent in these exact numbers so i am choosing teen wolf. what im gonna say is so controversial but it's actually peter hale and it's not even fanon that did this IT'S CANON. i used to be a big peter fan and then it got completely ruined. ok so peter's whole thing, right, is that he's a deeply horrible person and that kate argent burned every molecule of humanity out of him during the hale fire. okay, got it. fuck yeah. that's rad. SO WHY THEN. IN THE SEASON 3 FLASHBACK EPISODE. WAS HE ACTING EXACTLY THE SAME AS HE DID AS AN ADULT. and this was the one thing that fanon was getting RIGHT. pre-fire versions of peter in fic were wildly different to post-fire versions BECAUSE THAT WAS THE IMPLICATION. peter works perfectly as a villain because his actions are reprehensible but his motives are justified which makes him COMPLEX and with one episode they RUINED IT. it speaks to a larger problem of jeff davis backtracking a lot of stuff that was said or implied in season 1 (such as kate preying on derek when he was underage) for censorship or what the fuck ever. now whenever i see peter in anything the only thing i wanna do is roll my eyes. they made him like him for ten whole minutes in 6A and that was the best it ever got again. sorry to peter hale fans.

18. it’s absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

i won't list my teenwolf rarepair here, but that. oh, wait, actually, my ff13 rarepair. fang & lightning are WAY BETTER than fang & vanille. this on the basis of 1. hot. that section where you can do double commando. sexy. 2. everyone keeps calling vanille a kid and it weirds me out to ship her with someone who calls her that/thinks of her that way 3. lightning/fang is sort of the same dynamic as lightning/snow which i love in a NONROMANTIC way in that lightning is the straight man, very stoic, and fang is so flippant and casual about everything and so open with her emotions that it gets on her nerves until it becomes endearing. and theyre both quite In Charge generally so when lightning is like well every monster is one step closer to rescuing vanille they keep each other going in that same way, out of sheer stubbornness. anyway 10/10 ship dynamic i completely understand and respect fang/vanille fans but i wish fang/lightning got the same amt of attention

[ASK MEME]

#liz answers asks #anonymous #ASK MEMES #thank you for asking wow i really went off this time #sorry to the people still in ym inbox i have yardwork but ill be back

[lewishamil10n]

Re: replies on the consent issues inherent in D/C - I think even if it’s true that after Jimmy’s vessel was initially destroyed, Chuck made a new “Jimmy” body for Castiel, that’s still disturbing in terms of consent. After all, when Jimmy said yes to Castiel using him as a vessel, did he know he was apparently also consenting to having his body cloned for Castiel to continue using it AFTER his original body was destroyed? Certainly not. Did Chuck/the angels ASK Jimmy in Heaven if he would (1of?)

be okay with that? Doubtful, especially since it sure seemed he was done with angels after the events of The Rapture. He had to be threatened with his daughter to even consent to be Castiel’s vessel that time. So even if it’s only a copy of Jimmy’s body, that’s still creepy, and very arguably a violation of Jimmy. Plus - if Chuck can just create empty shell vessels for angels, why didn’t he just do that when he was around for all angels? Especially if these empty shell vessels didn’t (2of?) require the consent of the vessel? What’s the in-universe reasoning for that? Can empty shell vessels only be created based on the real vessel whose consent the angel had to get when said real vessel was alive? Does that mean everyone who consents to have an angel possess them also basically gives away all rights pertaining to their body and their likeness permanently? Because I don’t think the vessels knew what they were signing up for in that case, which still makes the consent dubious. (3of4) Not to mention, the age difference goes along with the species difference. If Castiel’s years aren’t the same as human years, that would be because he is not human. It would mean Castiel and Dean had intrinsically different experiences of the concept of time, and probably also had intrinsically different experiences of other concepts, too. How is that not rife with consent issues? Would either of them have the kind of understanding of what they were consenting to, to actually be capable of (4/5) consent? Destiel shippers shouldn’t be shamed, but they shouldn’t act like their ship, when held to real-life standards, isn’t inherently problematic just like other ships are. Which is why fictional characters and ships *shouldn’t be held to real-life standards to begin with.* Sorry for this lengthy ask, but being so invested in your ship being non-problematic so you can feel okay with judging other ships is exactly why fandom has gotten so miserable, and why I’m not active in fandom. (5/5)

whoa anon, clearly a lot to get off your chest XD i do agree though. discussions of consent (and lack thereof) under the cut.

i just had this discussion in the notes of a previous ask, and i said pretty much the same thing. jimmy's consent, dubious as it was, was only for his body to be used for castiel's heavenly duties. he did not intend for that body to be used for intercourse or anything else.

assuming he really did die and his soul left the vessel... his wishes should still have been respected. even in the real world, you can't just do whatever you want with a body after the soul has departed. you have to respect that person's wishes re: what they wanted (or didn't want) done with their body. even without the soul, the body has rights, and in jimmy's case, i am damn sure he did not consent to his body constantly being reanimated and then used for whatever the hell castiel felt like. in fact i kind of find it icky how castiel just began treating it like his body. it never was. i guess that further demonstrates how removed angels are from humanity; i don't think castiel could ever understand what a violation it is to have something done to your body against your will. for him it's just a vessel after all. perhaps that's why he was so cavalier about inviting lucifer in, about using that body to engage in sexual activity, and everything else he did with it. maybe it's also why he constantly compared his experience of possession by lucifer with sam's, even though it's not even close to the same thing. castiel chose to share the vessel he was in with lucifer, even though it was never his choice to begin with since it was never his body. perhaps that is why he never quite grasped why it was so traumatic for sam, both times that he was possessed by an angel. the first time was dubious consent, and the second... there was no consent.

but i digress.

coming to the age thing, i'm inclined to agree here as well. castiel was not human. i'm not saying that no one on the show has had a relationship with a non-human... but it's different when it's an angel, and different when it's, say, a werewolf or whatever. a creature that was born on earth and lived on it and participated in any kind of society, exercised their own free will, will always have more in common with humans than an angel could. they are immortal creatures, millennia old, with no understanding of humanity and barely any capacity for emotion. the concept of free will confuses the fuck out of them. yes, castiel was the exception, the one with the crack in his chassis, but at the end of the day, he was still an ancient being who had seen much more than any human could even conceive. him falling in love with humanity can be seen as plausible. him falling in love with one specific human... it's a stretch. castiel is not human, he's not going to understand or process human emotions in a way that could be compatible with any sort of relationship. hell, even his love confession in 15.18 left him looking like a villain. he came off as uncaring towards the kid he thought of as his own son, and downright malicious in hindsight towards the human who'd been kindest to him - yes, even more than dean. i'm not saying he actually didn't give a shit about sam or jack... but it sure looked that way because of how out of character and ridiculous that confession was. it didn't fit in with anything we knew of angels or even of castiel. it was pure fanservice and it destroyed ten yrs' worth of character building.

re: your last point about shipping... well honestly i don't see the point in making shipping some sort of moral crusade. i'm not just saying this as a wincest shipper, this was my opinion long before i slipped and fell into wincest lmao. it's just fiction. it's an aspect of a show (or movie or book or whatever) that you enjoy. there doesn't have to be some deep moral meaning to it, and it's really dangerous to try and give it some. a ship is not activism and never will be. a ship is not going to make you a better person or a better ally. that's on you. shipping is meant to be fun, not some substitute for actually being a good person or ally. this entire trend of shipping only the Purest most Unproblematic things is getting out of hand because now you've got people thinking shipping is the same as actual activism. look at how much some destiel shippers moaned when it didn't become canon, saying it was homophobic, etc etc. you'd think destiel was the best thing to happen to queer people since stonewall the way these people kept banging on about it. sorry i'm not trying to be mean, i'm just tired of it, because then you have people hopped up on their own self-righteousness, thinking it's okay to send others death threats and be absolute dickbags just because "our ship is better/at least we don't ship brothers!" sorry but nothing gives you the excuse to be an absolute shitstain, no matter what you ship. and let's not even get into fandom purity culture because that would make this reply even longer than it actually is lmao

tl;dr - agree with it all, anon, you big-brained beauty

#asks #anonymous #anti castiel #anti destiel #tagging these just in case even tho it's just discussion #OH also #consent issues