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thoughtspresso · 9 months

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Hello, sorry I just need someone to voice my op to since none of my circles read or watch OnK :'(

It's so weird to me how Akane's fans interpret that scene when the girls are filming an MV as Akane only having good intention and care for Kana, 'cuz imo even if there is, what she said was still one of her attemps to get Aqua to stay with her. Look at how things played out to her: her business bf wanted to break up, he even straight up refused sex when she offered, and now she found out that right after that he took Kana on to a proper date, Akane's chances were close to zero. She was grasping at straws when she said that and played it under the guise of being considerate about Kana's safety, just like how she said she's okay with breaking up with him yet cried - showing that she wanted the opposite. Because if she only cared about Kana's safety, then what's with the side comment about how actors have it easier? It's like she was saying "Choose me, I'm the safer choice!". I'm not saying Akane didn't have good intention, but it's more like a two bird one stone typa thing where she wanted Kana to be safe and Aqua to continue with dating her (her own selfish want). It was kinda a dirty move from Akane, consider how she knows very well what happened to Ai and how much that'll affects Aqua. Akane always strike me as a good in nature yet also self-absorbed character: She decided what's best for both Kana and Aqua that also benefits her selfish wants regardless of how the other two would feel (& we all know how miserable both Aqua and Kana was during that ghosting period); She decided what to do to Aqua's father without thinking about how he might feel (again); The signs were as early as the LoveNow arc where she tweeted the apology thinking it was the right solution without consulting with her manager first because she thought she knew what was best for her to do in that situation. Even her acting method also kinda reflect this, where if the character's portrayal clashes between her and the director/scriptwriter, she already has a concrete image of the character from her own interpretation and thus has difficulty compromising and adjusting with the production team.

I might even take a wild guess that she was in love (obsessed) with the idea of saving prince charming rather than Aqua himself because to her, their story literally went/was gonna go like the old classic story of prince charming saving the girl -> the girl learns about the prince's past, decides to help him to repay him saving her -> prince charming defeats the bad guy (his dad in this story) with the girl's help -> happily ever after. Akane being a teen + Aqua saved her + it's her first dating experience caused her to have an idealistic view of dating and probably why she tolerated Aqua dating her despite having his eyes on Kana for he did act like the perfect bf on the surface, and that to her was enough to fulfil her prince charming fantasy. Akane is, actually, not that mature in her relationship with Aqua like how her fan keep praising her for, tbh imo it's more akin to what teens think "being mature" is. I know this is one of the appeal of her ship with Aqua, even though some might deny it. As oppose to Kana who might be a potential obstacle to Aqua's revenge whether good or bad, Akane is narratively there as a bonus reward for Aqua after finishing the main quest of avenging his mom if the ship ever be canon again. Akane and Aqua have unfortunately became perfect self-inserts for those who are into revenge and/or trophy girl fantasy (nothing bad about this itself tho). But perhaps because of looking into those fantasy fulfilment rather than the actual context of the manga/anime, they accuse Kana of not understanding the "real" Aqua (I have alot to say about this, maybe 3 paragraphs at least lol) or how she's useless for not helping him kill a person and ignore the entire other half chunk of the story about showbiz problems, where Kana's own story entangle more.

If you've read this far, thank you so so much.

P/s: My wild guess no.2, rather than being a damsel in distress (being Kamiki's target) for Aqua to come rescue, Kana already has a close relationship with Kamiki prior to reuniting with the twins (maybe a mentor-student relationship?). I've always find it weird how Aka just glossed over Kana's past, like he's holding back important info regarding her past that he can't show the readers too soon. So that's why I have this guess. This explains why Aka's been keeping her out of the revenge plot for so long + better than Kana just being a damsel in distress + raises the stakes for Kana (will she choses the mentor who helped her through her dark days being abused by her mom or the twins who she can see the light and bright future in?) + makes Kana a key player in the revenge plot.

Hey Anon! I'm happy to talk to you about some OnK Character Analyses anytime. Sorry to have taken so long to respond, I really wanted to sit down with your question. I've been thinking about this a lot. And I'm afraid my response might be even longer than your ask hahaha!

I want to summarize your main points for everybody else, so that we're all on the same page:

Akane was manipulative when she reminded Aqua that Kana was an idol, and pushed him to choosing her.

Akane wants to reverse the damsel-in-distress and Prince Charming trope, and decides on behalf of others.

Akane fans accuse Kana for not knowing the "real" Aqua

(Bonus) There's a possibility that Kana already knew Hikaru Kamiki.

So, my responses:

#1 Was Akane being manipulative in Ch. 76?

Well, yes. And no.

I actually had a short discussion (argument?) with Skania (who I will not tag for the sake of their mental health, but mentioning here to credit them.) about this very topic. (And I want to thank them for their time and also apologize to have annoyed them!) We have really different interpretations and disagree each other on this part.

To get the fast answer out of the way: Yes, I believe Akane was wholly aware of what she was saying.

She already knew from the Tokyo Blade arc how badly Aqua can get triggered on the topic of Ai's death.

Put it this way: imagine being a teenage girl who was depressed or bullied, and the boy who saved your life started dating you but admits that it isn't because he likes you that way. You start offering him sex if that would fulfill his wants in a relationship, but he tells you that your relationship is about to end soon. You find out from another girl that they went on a date--shopping for suitcases and Brazilian barbecue--a kind of date he never did for you. Then when he invited you to go on a trip, most of what he did was walk you around his hometown to look for something else, and then watch this other girl be really cute in a dress he was stunned by.

Akane is allowed to be a teenager who would want to nudge her boyfriend to stay with her and away from his other crush.

Akane fans like to argue that she was being completely selfless, and was just looking out for Kana's safety too.

I really dislike this reading of Akane's character, because it strips her of agency. Of course she has personal goals, wants, and flaws. She's allowed to be a teenage girl who wanted her love to be reciprocated. She's allowed to be a teenage girl who gets a little jealous, and try as she might to be professional and civil because all of these people are her work colleagues too, she still does things that fulfill her goals. She is allowed to be self-interested, and act on opportunities that align with those self interests.

I also think that if Akane's fans want to believe in her intellect and her masterful ability in understanding people's psychology and detective work, then it stands to reason that they should also believe that Akane was deliberately aware of the effect of what she said to Aqua. She doesn't always make 100% correct bets, but it's reasonable to conclude she made this bet hoping that it could get him to stay.

Akane and everyone else is already aware that Kana is actually not a person who needs scolding on the dangers of being under public scrutiny:

Under any normal circumstance, if Akane simply cared for Kana's safety, she would have simply responded to Kana when she was bragging about the date. Like, "hey be careful about dating in public spaces okay? I dont want you getting in trouble." Or, if she would talk to Aqua about it, she might say, "Please remember to book a private room next time you eat in a restaurant."

But no. If Akane would remind them of safety tips of dating as public figures, it would just lead them to the advice to do Home Dates:

And she doesn't want that now, does she?

She didn't say something as straightforward as that, and neither did the author write it in a more neutral tone. It was deliberately written with Akane implying that if he didn't want Kana killed, he should just date a fellow actor. (Preferably one that the public is actually cheering on to be together, because they were already in a Love Team due to the show.)

I just don't like ignoring what the Author and the Illustrator clearly put on the page for me to absorb the way that it was. I think pretending she was being wholly selfless is an insult to the writers.

#2 Is Akane motivated by the want to Save Prince Charming?

This is the "and no" part of my answer.

When I think of Akane, I don't think of an outright evil person who manipulated Aqua into doing things, wanting to be a hero for that reason. And just like how Tokyo Blade serves as a parallel for the show, it in turn informs us that it is an incorrect interpretation of Saya-hime (or Akane) to think that she outright wants the violence herself.

This part I agree with Skania on: Akane's main flaw is her low self-esteem.

Akane doesn't personally believe that she is inherently worth any value, and any value that she holds is attributed to her hard work.

People have taken notice to the fact that, unlike Kana's experience of abuse and abandonment, Akane had a really good support system behind her when her suicide attempt happened during the LoveNow arc. She had a loving mother and a really kind-hearted manager that believed in her. Yet she clung onto the validation from the agency President more. She ascribes her personal value to the approval of other people, especially positive feedback from her superiors in the industry, her theater troupe calling her a genius, her fans applauding her.

And, on the opposite side of the same coin, she has immense Rejection Sensitivity that makes her extremely defensive when she received cyberbullying, leading her to want to make a public apology right away and appease people.

This leads Akane to be an extremely hardworking person, but also seeking validation and direction from other people (like the LoveNow crew), unable to voice out her views unless it is supported by an authority figure (like when she wanted something changed in Tokyo Blade), and also why when meeting her personal hero and idol Arima Kana in person, when Kana lashed out at her, instead of simply thinking, "okay she's a terrible person, I'm done with being her fan forever", she rejected that idea and went on to study Psychology in the hopes of understanding people like Kana.

All of this manifests in her relationship with Aqua being okay with receiving bare minimum from him, not complaining when she realizes he has feelings for someone else, and also doing anything and everything for him, whatever he needs whether he asks for it or not.

I'll go a little further into my interpretation of her (which I know Akane fans might be resistant to or disagree with, but I hope you stick with me here.)

I also think Akane has a co-dependency on Aqua, and herself has Inverted Narcissism, with Covert and Cerebral Subtypes.

I agree! I sound nuts! This interpretation is crazytown.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) has several subtypes, including Inverted Narcissism, which is a subtype where the person craves the co-dependency on another narcissist. They are self-sacrificing to their primary narcissist, feel they are not entitled to anything, but seem emotionally level-headed and highly attuned to the primary narcissist's needs but not much empathy for anybody else.

Because of how little they think of themselves, it gives them a feeling of power and control to be with a person who believes himself to be so special, to have a crucial mission whose victory she can partake in. In a sense, Aqua was someone Akane looked up to so much for having saved her from her suicide attempt, and for turning the public's view of her from negative to overwhelmingly popular.

Akane definitely thought, "I want to be useful to him! I want to make him happy!"

And this man had his own amazing detective mission going on in his mind and trauma to solve. And so Akane thinks, "Let me solve that for you! Let me be useful to you even if it kills me! Use me as you need!"

They say true love is unconditional and self-giving so I will aide my enabler in patricide to prove my worth to him!

According to Professor of Psychology Sam Vaknin, the DSM gives us 9 criteria to diagnose an Inverted Narcissist, and you need to have at least 5 to qualify. Here are some that he mentioned that I think fit Akane:

The inverted narcissist is emotionally stable, but her self-esteem is very low. The inverted narcissist devalues herself as an offering, as a sacrifice to the narcissist in her life. The inverted narcissist is compelled to filter all her narcissistic needs through the primary narcissist in her life. The inverted narcissist feels amplified by the primary narcissist's own accomplishments. The inverted narcissist is pre-occupied with fantasies [...] of an ideal love to be accomplished through the narcissistic partner.

The inverted narcissist feels like she is undeserving and not entitled to anything.

The inverted narcissist is indistinguishably selfless. She is sacrificial. She is anxious in her interpersonal relationships. She avoids assistance of others at all cost. She can only interact with others when she can be seen to be giving, supporting and expending an unusual effort to assist. So she is sacrificial, she sacrifices herself, but ostentatiously, in full view.

The inverted narcissist lacks empathy like a classic narcissist. She is intensely attuned to others needs, but only insofar as it relates to her own need to perform the required self sacrifice. She needs to self sacrifice in order to obtain her narcissistic supply from her primary narcissist. But to do so, she must be attuned to his needs. So this is her restricted use or leverage of empathy.

The inverted narcissist displays extreme shyness, lack of any real relational connections, is publicly self-effacing, is highly moralistic and critical of others, is a perfectionist, engages in lengthy ritualistic behaviors that can never be perfected.

I also mentioned that Akane has Cerebral subtype, in that she believes she has superior intellect, and the Covert subtype, where she seems altruistic and selfless on the outside but internally she is driven by a self-serving need to be useful, to be wanted, because she chases after this external validation to fill in the gaps of her own self-esteem and call to perfectionism.

There is room to argue that Aqua is actually the inverted narcissist and she's codependent on Akane who is the altruistic/communal narcissist subtype. I reviewed it, but it seems she's the codependent one in this scenario.

I think this answer entails that Aqua himself also has NPD, and I think he does have Vulnerable Narcissism with Cerebral subtype. Kana actually picked up on it pretty well:

He does tend to think that he is the sole person who can accomplish this mission of revenge, even though it took him 4 years to crack a passcode and he actually didn't solve anything himself. Like, ever.

He thinks that he has some superior ability to read people and manipulate them (and it's not necessarily true, he just believes so).

And he likes bringing it up out loud a lot, like I used you, or haha she's so easy to manipulate, regardless if he actually did anything.

When Ruby points out he hasn't made any friends, Aqua deflects and becomes defensive.

He also initially thought that he was going to make it big as an actor after the one time he did well as a child, and entreated Gotanda to take him in, but when his PTSD was getting in the way of his acting, he just chalked it up to saying no actually I was never talented in that, because he doesn't want to admit to others that he doesn't have the supernatural inhumane acting skills he thought he did. (Note: He's not comfortable showing those old acting videos to Kana, but is okay with showing it to Akane for this reason.)

He truly believes he's everybody's savior. Unprompted he just thinks he's some main character that caused everybody's suffering. His Behavioral Self-Blame (BSB) about the death of both of his mothers is a manifestation of his wish for control over the situation, which is a known coping mechanism for those with PTSD or Major Depression Disorder (MDD)

Vulnerable NPD subtypes also feel uncomfortable being praised, which is why he reacts that way with Kana.

Vulnerable NPD subtypes also hate being asked to compete, which is why during both LoveNow and Tokyo Blade arcs, he keeps out of the way.

Vulnerable NPD subtypes really really hate rejection, and that's why Aqua says that he can't confront Kana without a Pieyon mask because he's too weak to be shot down by her again.

Vulnerable NPD subtypes are quite anti-social, but again if you confront them about it, they'll just deflect you and say things like they had no intentions to make friends or they're busy observing or something like this.

I mean, look at this dumbass intellectualize having feelings for girls his age like Akane and Kana:

Kana gets it though:

ONLY A NARCISSIST WOULD (half-joke)

This is of course a reminder that people with NPD aren't inherently bad people, they also don't come in one shape or form as there are many subtypes, and they can swing in severity. Most of them are a by-product of either a traumatic childhood or an overly doting one. Akane and Aqua just simply happened to be both of these.

I just came to this interpretation when I kept thinking of why was it that it felt like both Akane and Aqua were using each other. They both felt miserable and yet felt necessary and dependent on each other's emotional comfort. They both lie to each other too. I think a lot of people have picked up on the "feeling" that the two are using, manipulating, abusing each other, there's something dysfunctional about them together, and yet they also genuinely care about each other a lot. And people couldn't pick the right words to describe that. Co-dependents and their primary narcissists can heal together into a healthy relationship, they don't have to stay that way forever. But for the most part, nobody really recognizes that that's what was happening, because the dance they do together looks completely synchronized as a relationship. Who ever says no to a sweet and completely self-giving girlfriend? Who would leave their boyfriend to die alone in a revenge plot?

ONLY A NARCISSIST WOULD (not joking)

#3 Does Kana know the real Aqua:

I think a lot of Akane fans love to cite that Akane knew about the revenge, the trauma, the using, the manipulation etc. She also knows what he's like when he's being silly and playful.

And I don't deny that Aqua and Akane cared for each other.

But I also think that Kana knew Aqua even when he was being unpleasant, making crude jokes about her when they were kids. Kana observes Aqua's acting meticulously and understands the fine details of his style. Kana also has actual conversations with him about his interests too. They read the same books and they jog together, and they're very comfortable arguing with each other about anything.

Most of all, of anybody, only Kana has pointed out that Aqua has chuunibyou/grandiose thinking, narcissistic tendencies, and that Ruby has a co-dependent relationship with him (even when she didn't know about their past as Sarina and Gorou, she just picked it up as the core reason for their clinginess).

#4 [Bonus] Does Kana know Kamiki?

I don't think so.

When Kamiki opened his production company/agency, Kana would have been about 11yo. It was around this time that she had been recording Full Moon and her other songs, and her career had been on a decline. Then her company left her and she started freelancing instead.

Kana's acting style is also diametrically opposed to Kamiki's acting. Which as Akane has pointed out is similar to Ai's acting style. Kana's acting is very emotionally honest and is rooted in her personal understanding of her own emotions, whereas Kamiki and Ai act to deceive others based on the calculated perception they know the audience wants of them. Given this, it's unlikely that Kamiki mentored her in any form.

Lastly, I think Kana would have been the first person to point out that Kamiki looks like Aqua if they knew each other, even if he was acting as the Miki-san persona.

But I did joke before that I think if Kana and Kamiki met each other, they'd just traumabond and be friends until the cops haul Kamiki away. And that'd be the funniest thing ever.

That's it! That was a very long rant. Thanks for the question.

#Oshi No Ko #Oshi No ko Spoilers #oshi no ko fan theories #Arima Kana #Hoshino Aqua #Kurokawa Akane #i didn't originally think that akane had inverted narcissism #actually i first did think she was being manipulative #skania was right about some stuff about how akane didn't really think she was doing anything selfishly #but that in and of itself was a problem like she was just so willing to help aqua commit patricide and happy to be geotracked and offer sex #it was so dysfunctional and anybody calling it out has a good reason to feel that way #even if my diagnosis of them was incorrect it's still true that their relationship was extremely unhealthy

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