Tumgik
#snape slander
licorice-lips · 1 day
Text
Okay, so I was thinking about Snape and although I'm avoiding like hell speaking online about Harry Potter, I think it needs to be said because it falls onto the rest of fantastical literature as well, especially those stories that have parallels to fascism/nazism/colonialism in their magical world.
I'd like to start by saying I don't like Snape for a variety of reasons, some of them because of Rowling, others because of the character himself, and others because of his fans, but today I'd like to talk about how Snape's Redemption Arc actually sucks and why, and also about how we're treating redemption arcs as a whole.
Okay, so let's begin by making a sort of timeline on Snape's life: he grew up in an abusive household, suffered bullying by the Marauders through school years, bullied other students as well, called his best friend a slur, "apologized", joined a fascist hate group that actively persecuted and hurt people for things they had no control of, acted on behalf of this group for years, turned against the hate group not out of morals but because their actions began to threaten the people he cared about (like they always said they would, how shocking), bullied his teenage students as a grown adult, acted as a spy against the hate group when it came back, died.
Right, so before I dive into all those things, what we also have to add is that Art isn't made in a vacuum. Just like science can never be done by a completely neutral party, our productions of art are completely based off of our views, especially when we're talking about writing. As a writer myself, I can see exactly how my experiences as a person in the context I was born and grew up in affect my writing and my production of art.
For example, it's very common that I find enemies calling themselves by their last names in American/European fiction but in Brasil, we don't normally call people by their last names unless it's very unique and as a nickname. So when I write enemies, they always call each other by their first names, simply because it doesn't feel right to me any other way. On a more serious example, most of the countries in my fantasy books have some history of colonization or dictatorship because it's a part of my history and I feel it's impacts to this day, so it's something that reflects my own thoughts and ideas in politics.
So when we talk about Snape as a character, we cannot escape the fact that Rowling created him. And as a European author, it's more than clear —and that's especially obvious to people who suffer under colonization to this day— that Rowling has a deeply ingrained colonizer mentality. The goblins in Gringots are a clear and problematic representation of Jewish people, the domestic elves LIKING being enslaved and not changing the status quo by the end of the books, and even Hermione being ridiculed for her militancy on it — these are all representative of how Rowling views the world.
Although there's more, all of those examples make it clear that, when she looks at fascist ideology as a whole, Rowling doesn't think the ideology itself is the problem: the ending is the depiction of them getting rid of the "bad apples" instead of making the "roots of the tree" healthy again is parallel to blaming bad individuals for a system that is corrupted and therefore corrupts. So basically, what the Harry Potter books tell us by the end is that it's okay for you to perpetuate a racist system, just don't do it so openly. The problem for her is not the system, but these people she considers "bad apples" which is basically right-wing ideology.
And my problem with Snape starts here: because Rowling sees purist views as an acceptable way of thinking as long as you don't kill people because of it (because for some reason that's a step too far — but when the system oppresses, beat down, and hates on marginalized people, that's okay) — in her mind and in her writing, Snape's ideological affiliation earlier on in his life is not that big of a problem, especially when he "changes sides".
Snape's active participation in a hate group is dangerously and irresponsibly downplayed both by Rowling and by Snape's apologists and fans when this is, in reality, one of the two greatest offenses his character has to compensate for in his "Redemption Arc". So when he hesitates at nine yo to say to Lily that being a Muggleborn doesn't make a difference (even when he knows it does in a practical sense of what's happening in the Wizarding World), when he despises Petuney for being a Muggle, when he says to Lily that what he, Mulciber and their "death eaters" friends did to Mary McDonald was "just a laugh (btw, I'm sure the Marauders also think what they did was "just a laugh" as well), all of this is not only extremely reprehensible, it's the kind of thing that makes a fascist, a fascist.
And it's not that I don't believe teenagers cannot change their minds and grow with more ease than adults, it's just that this alone would've been enough grounds to understand why Snape's redemption arc sucks. His beliefs from early on, even before he goes to Hogwarts, are extremely problematic and hateful, and they uphold the very corrupted system that is perpetuated against Muggle-borns in the Wizarding World.
Then we reach the point I wanted to make: it's very clear throughout the books that child and teenager Snape struggles with feelings of deep hatred against his parents (especially his father, who's a Muggle), inadequacy in social life even among his peers (wizards and witches) and isolation, all of which make a person undeniably vulnerable to extremist ideology.
And here's my first issue with Snape and his Redemption Arc: his trauma and feelings should not be an excuse for his bad choices and yet, they are used exactly as such. Yes, Snape was an impressionable teenager and yes, he was influenced by an ideology in his desperation to fit in and find solace in a community, but that doesn't matter.
None of it matters because, at the end of the day, his actions for this ideology are just as harmful, just as awful, just as cruel, as the actions of someone who joined the Death Eaters for thoroughly believing Muggleborns were scum. He harmed people just as much as Yaxley, Mulciber, or any other Death Eater who joined Voldemort for their hatred just for his support alone.
And more than that, even if Snape was in a vulnerable state and impressionable, he was still receiving other kinds of influences, influences that were contrary to the bigotry and cruelty of Voldemort — and he still chose to ignore those influences. There was still a level of choice to what he became as a young adult.
But even if there wasn't, Snape is —or at least he should be— responsible for his own choices regardless of influence. As they say in the Kingdom of Heaven film, when you're before God and he asks you why you did something, you won't be able to say that others told you to do so or that it wasn't convenient to do the right thing — it'll not be enough. And it's not enough because your actions matter more than your intentions. Your actions will be the thing that will determine what happens next, not your intentions. It'll be actions that will shape your path and influence or directly impact the path of others around you, not your intentions.
The older I get, the more I understand the power of action and how it says more than any intention or feeling ever will. At the end of it, Snape's actions are what matters, not his feelings or intentions. But as humans, we're so prone to empathize with others that we actually believe that, because someone feels guilty or regrets the things they did, that's enough to forgive them.
We forget that it's not.
Earning forgiveness must come with 5 major steps —
Accountability — do they acknowledge the way their actions hurt us? Do they acknowledge the way they hurt us? Do they acknowledge their role in our pain?
Apologies — do they apologize? Is their apology sincere? Do they hold themselves accountable in their apologies?
Acceptance — do they feel entitled to forgiveness? Do they accept the consequences of their actions? Do they accept the boundaries you impose on the path to forgiveness?
Amends — Did they take steps to mend what's broken? Do they make choices to prevent them from doing this again? Do they try to help without crossing your boundaries?
Alteration — Did they change the behavior that hurt you? Did they take steps to improve themselves?
Those steps are fundamental in a Redemption Arc because it'll exemplify to the (young) readers what is forgivable and how forgiveness is earned, not deserved. That's what grits me the most about Snape's "Redemption Arc":
There is no accountability, at least not for joining and upholding a hate group, and we kinda get accountability for what he did in his friendship with Lily, but in a fucked up way, let's see:
It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower. “I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.” “I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just – ” “Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice. “It’s too late. I’ve made excuses for you for years. None of my friends can understand why I even talk to you. You and your precious little Death Eater friends – you see, you don’t even deny it! You don’t even deny that’s what you’re all aiming to be! You can’t wait to join You-Know-Who, can you?” He opened his mouth, but closed it without speaking. “I can’t pretend anymore. You’ve chosen your way, I’ve chosen mine.” “No – listen, I didn’t mean – ” “ – to call me Mudblood? But you call everyone of my birth Mudblood, Severus. Why should I be any different?”
It's very important to me that we dissect this piece of dialog because it shows a lot about Snape and how every time he's tried to apologize, there's no accountability.
He didn't say he's sorry he said that slur (to LILY and only Lily, might I add, when at all would've been ideal but I'll have some leniency because of the situation) — he's said he's sorry, but not for what he has done, just for Lily. He didn't take responsibility for his words as he should — he says it 'slipped out' or that 'he didn't mean, again just to LIly.
He accepted no boundaries Lily tried to impose — sleeping outside Gryffindor? Really?
Most importantly of all, he took absolutely ZERO steps to alter his behavior so that he could never harm someone again like he harmed Lily. And that's very important, I cannot begin to explain how: when we regret doing something, the most fundamental step to take in change.
Change is fundamental to forgiveness but it shouldn't be conditioned by it. If we regret doing something harmful, the first thing to do is to change our behavior. Instead, Snape not only doesn't change his problematic behavior, he doubles down on it, joining the hate group Lily pointed out as one of the main problems in why their relationship couldn't continue, acting in the name of said group for years and only backing down on it when Lily is threatened.
And that reveals something about Snape's worldview: for him, since that day he called Lily a slur, the problem wasn't that he was a bigoted piece of shit (like Lily said it was), the problem, in his head, was that he hurt Lily. And that's not true. The problem is, one hundred percent, his bigoted behavior, and Lily says as much, more than one time. He just does not listen to it. He doesn't listen to her.
More than that, though, you can try to point out that he redeems himself by acting against Voldemort but I'm sorry: what Snape did is not enough. He was part — and believed in — a hate group, it's not enough that he changes sides not because of values, but because one person who is being threatened is dear to him (which was the whole prerogative anyway so I failed to see how he's even surprised by this). You can say that this is good or honorable or "love" but it's not cute to base your entire life around one person.
It's not honorable to prioritize one person over a whole world he was threatening before and not caring at all about them. Disregarding other human beings in favor of one is not as pretty as people think it is and Snape represents this very well: it makes you bitter, it makes you become abusive, cruel, a bully to everyone else. It's not pretty, it's not understandable. Be a fucking decent human being, it's actually not that hard.
But I digress again: my point is, that just because Snape regrets the things he has done for Voldemort (not even out of morals, which drives me mad) it doesn't mean he deserves forgiveness. He doesn't and he hasn't earned it, he didn't even try. Actually, he's so stuck in his regret, he's harmful because of it: guilt is a trap, babes. It sucks you in if you let it and makes you miserable as well as anyone around you. You'll be so remorseful and yet you'll hurt people because of it.
And it's the same thing I've been saying since the beginning: we need to stop associating feelings with deserving forgiveness because you don't deserve forgiveness, you earn it. Either you earn it from someone else, from yourself, or from both, but either way, it's earned, not deserved. If I were to excuse my harmful behavior every time just because I regretted doing something instead of earning their forgiveness by taking steps to apologize to the people I've hurt, I would be compared to my father all the time. And THAT would've been an insult.
Anyway, let's just stop feeling sorry for characters, especially fascists, just because they regret something. Please, let us hold our characters accountable for the shit they've done adequately and make our writers actually put in the work to make them earn the forgiveness they crave instead of just wallowing in their own misery, stuck forever in a vortex of hurting and being hurt that sucks people in. It's not a good example for us readers, it's not a good example of behavior, it's not what a good person who did shitty things should strive to be and we shouldn't think it is.
26 notes · View notes
aludraslytherin · 6 months
Text
*In the Afterlife*:
Lily : James look ! Severus is here ! He's gonna take Harry an-...
James : Hug your dead body.
Marlene : Leave the house, abandoning your crying one-year-old alone with your body.
Evan : After looking at him with disgust.
Dorcas : And purposefully kicking James's body.
Lily :
Lily : As soon as he enters the Afterlife I will break his nose.
Regulus : And kick him so hard that his ribs will be left in crumbs !
2K notes · View notes
readwithlivvy · 1 month
Text
reminder that this is how severus snape treated his students
Tumblr media
173 notes · View notes
radiohead-spiderman · 4 months
Text
Some of the marauders fandom makes me exhausted, you guys do know that the marauders were assholes right? The Snape thing wasn’t James and Sirius being sweet baby boys trying to protect themselves, it was a back and forth of bullying, they were rivals, Snape wasn’t just an evil greasy little man, and James wasn’t a sweet innocent can do no wrong little baby. It was a RIVALRY.
Let James Potter have flaws Jesus Christ. On that note, let Snape have SOME type of character BESIDES being bad. If your only take away from Snape and Lily’s relationship was that it was bad for Lily and that Lily was an idiot for not being able to see Snape’s red flags, you’re objectively incorrect.
This can also be said vice versa for Snape stans. James Potter was not an evil bully, he was a popular asshole, like MOST teenage boys are, however he grew and was objectively a good person.
To add commenting “Stan Bambi” on a positive Snape post does not make you cool or funny, it makes you mildly annoying at best, however commenting “James Potter was a bully” on a positive James post, makes you a mild annoyance at best as well.
Literally just let people like characters, this goes for both Snape fans AND Marauders fans.
115 notes · View notes
the-most-faithful · 4 months
Text
James Potter Stans"justifications"
I found this old thread on reddit and it is pure gold. The classic "justifications" used by James Potter Stans.
Tumblr media
This isn't really an excuse, it's just admitting that James was an arrogant bully under the guise of "he was a teenager" surprise, Snape was a teenager too.
Tumblr media
Oh, that's the point, for all those who keep saying "We don't deny reality" here you go.
James didn't bully Snape, they were just rivals. I'm not good at math, but since when would 2 VS 1 be rivality? Because in the books we know that James and Sirius attacked Snape just out of boredom, where would the rivalry be? Isn't attacking someone by slamming them to the ground, lifting them by the ankle, suffocating them with soap, SA them bullying? Is it simple rivalry? So tell me, what's the other side of the story. Rivality means that they are equals and attack each other equally. When did Snape ever attack, suffocate, curse James? (And no, I haven't forgotten the Prank, but we'll talk about it later)
Tumblr media
James didn't change in canon, he got everything he wanted without ever having to apologize, he was popular, on the right side of the war and he got married to the girl he liked, even though he bullied her best friend for years. James continued to attack Snape even in seventh year without telling Lily. But even so, let's pretend that James is really mature, what does this prove? That first he was an arrogant bully, so at least we don't deny this fact, and then at some point he changed, so what? Do the years of bullying disappear? I wouldn't say, going back to clarify that in the books the only change James made was to no longer attack other students, he continued to target Snape behind Lily's back.
Tumblr media
Well no, we were told that Snape was prejudiced against muggles (I remind you that his muggle father was violent towards him and his mother) and hung out with people like Avery, Mulciber etc. But it is never said in the books that he used dark magic against Muggle-borns. I can agree with one thing, Snape called muggleborns Mudblood. Everyone except Lily, until The worst memory. But again, what is this supposed to prove? Wasn't Snape a victim of bullying because he used an offensive term? Whatever he did doesn't take away the fact that he was a victim of bullying.
Tumblr media
There are so many things wrong here that I don't feel like correcting them all. But the biggest one, The Prank doesn't happen in the seventh year but before the worst memory. We know this from the memories that appear in the seventh book. Lily and Severus still talk to each other, they're still friends. The "James had changed by that point" theory doesn't hold up as a few months later he SA Snape just out of boredom in his worst memory.
In the Prank Sirius tried to kill Snape using Remus as a weapon (nice friend) and James took Snape out at the last minute. Is he a hero for this? He didn't let his best friend kill another person, that's the minimum for being a deceased person. It's like saying that making someone cross the street instead of hitting them with my car makes me a hero. Hell no, I'm just a normal person.
So what have we demonstrated in all this? Was Snape a wonderful person who had no flaws or faults? Absolutely not, but in his school years he was the victim of James and Siurius' bullying. Stop denying canonical reality, stop creating confusion with chronology and inventing facts that never happened.
104 notes · View notes
atyd1960 · 6 months
Text
The more I think about it the more I'm confused about Snape's so called "redemption arc".
We don't know much about his years at Hogwarts outside of the time James hanged him from his underwear and he called Lily a Mudblood, but we know that:
1. He had a disdain for Muggles ever since he was born or at least ever since he was 10 y/o bc that's when he meets Lily and Petunia and treats the latter like garbage.
2. He was friends with Mulciber and Avery- known death eaters, especially Mulciber who we know was particularly close with Baldy due to the time he came to Hogsmede with him for his job interview with dummydore.
From that we can assume that he was a witness and a participant in A Lot of hate crimes against Muggle Borns ever since he was a minor. One of which was the time Mary was the victim.
3. We know HE invented the spell James used to hang him from his panties, which must mean that he used it against others, probably muggle borns, and his DE friends must've used it as well.
4. We know he invented the spell Sectumsempra to use against his enemies?? (Sorry it's been a while since I read the books I don't remember the exact quote.) and his enemies are almost certainly the Marauders. Also maybe his dad but that's a discussion for another day.
5. We know he was one of Baldy's dearest death eaters, even tho he was a Half-Blood with no status and no connections, which means he definitely did a lot of horrific things to Muggles and Muggle borns and the members of the Order of Phoenix.
6. We know he heard Trelawney's prophesy after eavesdropping in a bar, and immediately ran to Baldy with it. He knew that by telling Baldy about the prophecy an innocent baby will be killed, and he didn't give a shit. I cannot stress enough how much that information in vital for his character. Taking a baby's life so that Baldy might give him a sit closer to him by the table. And nothing would've happened to him if he shut his mouth and didn't go to Baldy. He didn't have his life or even his status\loyalty on the line. He just sacrificed this anonymous innocent baby for kicks and giggles.
7. The only point in which he cared about his actions was when Lily's life was on the line. This wanker really didn't care that he just gave Baldy (a man who made it his life' mission to kill Lily and the likes of her) a reason to kill Lily's son and husband, who were practically her only source of joy while she fought against his people in the war. He just wanted the girl he slurred and stalked and mistreated in high-school to live with all her friends and family dead. And thought he was doing something good. I don't even know how to begin to describe how fucked up that is.
8. He went to Dummydore and asked him to save her. After he got her, her husband and her kid to be under an even worse constant death threat than they were before because of Lily's blood status and their participant in the order. And after he spent the last 3-4 years killing Lily’s friends and the people who share her blood status.
9. That was also the point in which he offered himself to be a double spy right?? Again real heroic of him to risk his life after all the shit he did because he was in love with a girl whose life he ruined. He never cared about all the shit he did and all the people he murdered and he never actually wanted to help innocent people or do good by the world or even by Lily.
10. After Baldy died for the first time and the first war ended, Harry had nobody left, and Dummydore put him with Petunia and Vernon. Snape knew better than anyone else what the Dursleys will do to Harry. He knew everything, and he didn't do shit. Not only did he not do shit, but he also made things worse for Harry by bullying and harassing him since the moment he stepped foot in the castle.
11. Extending on the last point- Snape bullied, harassed, abused, mistreated and discriminated against students at Hogwarts ever since he started teaching there, I'm not gonna start elaborating on all the times he did those things because that would take a different essay of similar length.
12. Yeah I don't really know what to add here? That's pretty much it I think.
So to conclude: am I really expected to forgive him because he loved Lily and had a hard time with James when they were 16 and he spied for Dummydore for a bit?? Being a looser in middle school and then becoming a double spy doesn’t make up for… anything. Especially since he never stopped being a terrible person.
123 notes · View notes
siriusthirdcousin · 11 months
Text
there are two kinds of harry potter fans and i’m afraid i’m the second kind. yes barty crouch jr is my babygirl. yes i hate snape. i don’t need to have reasons for this. i am delusional (fanon is so much more fun)!
286 notes · View notes
ascarylesbian · 1 year
Text
If you think about it Snape's memories of James Potter are probably not very accurate. I mean it had been over 15 years and when you really hate someone or your really angry about something you can sometimes miss remember things. So for all we know the memories could have been exaggerated.
183 notes · View notes
Text
ik cannon is lame and all that, but it’s kinda funny that one of the only things we know about Evan is that he was friends with Snape and we all chose to ignore it. Like he’s mentioned like twice and one of them is saying he was close with Snape.
45 notes · View notes
percy15 · 8 months
Text
I think we need to discuss the fact that it wasn’t just Sirius who contributed to the prank!!!
Like people just forget that Snape KNEW Remus was a werewolf and was going into the shack to test his theory! He fully knew the consequences and even if he wasn’t thinking of them because you know who else wasn’t thinking of the consequences? Sirius when he told Snape! And also Snape did it so he had concrete proof Remus was a werewolf! Sirius told Snape because Snape is an asshole and Snape went into the shrieking shack because Snapes an asshole not because Sirius manipulated him or something!!! Like yes obviously Sirius should be held accountable because he did do something terrible but let’s not act like what Snape did wasn’t just as bad!!
88 notes · View notes
resident-gay-bitch · 5 months
Text
modern snape’s group would unironically start one of those alpha man podcasts and the marauders would find it so hilarious they’d sit there listening each week and then make a podcast themselves mimicking everything those guys said and 90% of the thing would be them wheezing and crying laughing into the mics but people would gobble it up
they’d also bring the girls in for special episodes and act like really dumb guys asking dumb questions and they’d all just be posing themselves and secretly shittalking like snape and mulciber and stuff but it’s also really helpful and teaches people actual stuff. like they’d pretend to be dumb guys not knowing how sanitary products work and then the girls would sit there “makinf fun” of them and teaching them about these things and saying all the shit they wish they could actually say to dumb mysogynistic men’s faces all the time
sometimes the royal court (skittles) would get bought on there too and it would get even funnier because they’d all be playing different characters making fun on “alpha” males and trying not to laugh
james and sirius would love it so much they’d have their own spin off podcast where they just get to be normal dumb like the basement yard podcast
57 notes · View notes
aludraslytherin · 4 months
Text
Why the fuck, when the Fidelius Charm was cast, did they not think to make a goddamn unbreakable vow !? Like, it's so obious ???
And Sirius ? They can literally take a memory into a pensine something and watch it, they have legilimency for crying out loud !! They have veritaserum ! So whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ??? It's so stupid!
And Dumbledore ! oh this sorry excuse of a human being !
He knew that Peter was the secret keeper ! So WHY IN THE EVERLY MOTHERLY FLIBBIDY FUCK didn't he said so ???
It makes me so fucking crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
And everyone that is like 'ThE BoY WhO LiVeD' 'hE DefEtEd tHe DaRk lOrD' erh, NO ?! It was thanks to LILY ?? He was just an INFANT who had the chance to be under a protecting spell created by LILY when she SACRIFIED HERSELF for her son ? Why is everybody forgeting about her ??
Oh, and don't start me about Snape !
'hE wAs BulLiEd bY JaMeS, HiS WoRsE MeMoRy iS HiM BeinG BuLliEd' Yeah, because he called Lily a slur
'hE WaS jUsT MiSuNdErStoOd' No, he was a death eater, fully believing in Voldy's BS,he only changed side because the girl he was obsessed with was in danger... Because of HIM ! People tend to forget that he was the one searching and giving the prophecy to the dArK LoRd, resulting in Lily's death.
And, 'JaMeS WaS jUsT A BulLy' We only sees him throught Snape's pov, aka, when he got 'bullies'c after he called Lily a mudblood.
And if James is a bully, doesn't that mean the Snape is one too ? No because :
-He made fun of Hermione for her teeth
-He bullies his students
-he exposed Remus when he had no reason for, since he is the one brewing the wolfsbane potion
-he hates and bullies the son of 'the love of his life' because Harry had the infortune of looking like his father, that Snape resents
-favoritism
-he was a death eater
-he is a racist
-he is a blood supremacis
-he is Neville worst fear, the boy who literally had his parents torturedby Bellatrix. Shouldn't she be his boggart ?? But noooo, it's our 'wonderful and misunderstood' Snape
-when he hugged Lily's body, while her son was crying his eyes out, being hurt, seeing his mother die, having blood on his forehead, and then leaving the house without even comforting or taking Harry to Saint-Mungos !!
-blamed James for bullying him, when he created Sectum Sempra, and was into dark magic !
-trying to make Harry expelled
190 notes · View notes
missesmckinnon · 9 months
Text
Snape: *breathes* Petunia: Please go somewhere else. How dare you do that in my presence. Lily: He's my friend, Tuni, please be kind to him. Petunia: Not to be dramatic, but I'd rather die.
121 notes · View notes
the-most-faithful · 4 months
Text
Fanon James Potter
Ok I need to say this, anyone who loves the Fanon James Potter needs to stop defending the canon one.
Some fanfictions are pieces of art, well written and with interesting plots, but they distort some characters. If you like Fanon James ok, but he's not the canon one.
James in canon was an arrogant bully, that's the truth. We can talk about whether he changed or not (Spoiler, he hasn't changed, he's just dead) but using non-canon facts to cleaning up canon James is ridiculous.
64 notes · View notes
atyd1960 · 7 months
Text
There’s not a redder red flag than liking Severus Snape
58 notes · View notes
kachowblueninja · 10 months
Text
Tumblr media Tumblr media
The prank.
59 notes · View notes