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olderthannetfic · 3 years

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The Phantom of the Opera fandom is going through it this week. There is a Google doc created and circulated by a white trans man which accuses dozens of artists and fic writers of being terfs, racists, and orientalists. One issue, aside from the inherently unethical nature of blacklists, is that the list includes trans fans, fans of color, many of whom are Asian. So there's this strange dynamic of a list that was supposedly written to protect fans who are from these communities that is actively them instead. And this racist dynamic of a white person calling POC racist, and Asian fans specifically orientalist.

I'd love your take on any angle of this. What are your thoughts on these kinds of block lists? Do they happen in other fandoms? Thoughts on the racial dynamic of this situation? Thanks!

Oof. Yes, I was thinking of saying something about this, but I hadn't gotten around to vetting posts for reblogging yet. When I first saw your post, it passed my sniff test, but I'm not very familiar with PotO fandom (Phandom? Hah! I thought that was a reference to Dan/Phil stans or Danny Phantom or something!), and I like to have a better grasp on what's going on before I reblog. I see more people have weighed in by now though.

My take is that this often happens with blacklists. I can't think of another exact parallel to this one off the top of my head (mostly because there are so many fandom wanks that the details get fuzzy), but every time I hear of a fandom blacklist something of this general type is wrong with it.

The sad reality is that the most vulnerable community members generally won't have time/confidence/assurance of their safety in a way that would make them likely to make a public one and spread it around. People with a lot of experience and perspective who have a good handle on what their group overall thinks is beyond the pale and who could reasonably speak for the whole group don't have time for petty shit like this either and are more aware of the downsides of a public list.

The sorts of people who spend their time on public blacklists are the opposite of the people you'd want to be making them. They're either chasing clout or they've gone off the deep end with "my ship/character is literally me, and when you write them wrong, you are literally committing crimes against me" lunacy.

It makes perfect, if horrible, sense that it would be a white person calling Asian fans orientalist. What we've seen time and time again is that outrage mobs come from a dominant culture. (So in English, in fanworks fandom, that's usually a US cultural context, even if many individual members aren't from the US themselves.) That's who has the numbers and the smug self-assurance of their holy righteousness.

It's very easy for a faker or a manipulator with bad intentions to imitate a Good Minority for this kind of mob. A Good Minority is scenically exotic and primitive and tells quaint stories about granny living in a hut or whatever other bullshit the listeners have internalized. A Good Minority doesn't like Bad Representation™, whether that's characters who were orientalist in their original form or badwrong kink or the wrong dude on top.

Unfortunately, actual members of whatever ethnicity or culture are rarely convenient stereotypes. It's a lot harder to get an outrage mob to care about them--or even to believe them about their identity--because they don't fit into some unconscious white savior or noble savage narrative.

It's like when "fujoshi"-hating fuckfaces whine about how m/m fanfic is bad rep but ignore that lots of cis gay men love stuff ten times more problematic and couldn't care less about AFABs' art and its supposed appropriativeness.

Masturbatory obsession with "authenticity" represses actual authenticity in favor of respectability politics and stereotypes

Among other reasons this is so is that minority members who disagree with the clout-chaser's version of things are a threat to their power. They're always first on the chopping block. We saw it in TOG. It's no surprise it's there in PotO.

Fake anti-racist activism doesn't incidentally harass POC: that's intentionally one of its main applications.

Public blacklists are grudgewank, this time and every time. The creep who made it sucks, but as with the situation in TOG fandom, it seems to me that a lot of the harm is coming from useful idiots.

If more fans would remain skeptical and make up their own damn minds about each person they block, these bullies wouldn't have such power.

Trying to be a better person is great. It's not an excuse for outsourcing your critical thinking. If we would stop reaching for easy answers to be Guaranteed Not Orientalist or whateverthefuck, we wouldn't fall for these transparent power grabs.

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isabellehemlock · 3 years

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Hello ❤ In honor of the anniversary of the movie coming out this month, I am so excited to share a little project I’ve been working on - a sort of love letter from me to the fandom - that’s about celebrating some of the fic writers we have. I quite enjoy sharing fic recs, reblogging them, hyping, etc, but seeing as it’s been several months since I’ve made a huge fic rec list (you can see that here if you’d like), I figured I’d compile another one (that features 50+ fics!).

Because I really wanted to celebrate the broad range of characters, pairings, and find a little something for as many people as possible, here’s the layout/goals I had in mind:

Divide by Canon vs AU. Canon adjacent were included, as well as pre/post, basically if everyone was still an Immortal, the fic ended up under this section. Anything else, was placed under the AU section, for any time period, or world (fantasy, historical, or modern)

I further divided by the following pairings (whether canon or fanon): Andy x Quynh, Joe x Nicky, Book of Nile, and Other (which includes such pairings as OT3, OT5, or say, Andy and Nile, etc - I really tried to find at least one of each of these, for as many ratings as possible but they are rare pairs in some cases and I unfortunately was a bit limited in that regard).

Each fic is listed in descending order, starting with General Audiences, and going down to Explicit within each category. All are completed status, and I included both one shots, and multi chapter options.

I strived to find fics, and authors, I have not personally recommended before, as well as ones who maybe haven’t received very many hits (>2k), or comments (though there are a handful of exceptions that are higher, and some authors are on here twice) - by now I know there’s some popular names out there within the fandom, and I definitely have some of those authors bookmarked and subscribed to, but I also wanted to help some less known authors/not as well known fics be seen, too 😘

Where possible I also added the author’s tumblr handles, if you see your story below, feel free to comment/reblog and let me know and I’m happy to add it

As with any fics, mind the tags, and ratings, and if you ever need to know how to curate your AO3 search results, here’s some links that could help:

link in case you would like to block certain ship pairings within the fandom

link if you want to use a browser extension to block authors, certain tags, etc

link if you want to block an author via a workskin).

You are 100% responsible for curating your fandom experience and please do not use this list that is meant to showcase the wonderful variety within this fandom as an excuse to hound authors in the comments/blogs. Simply block what you don't want to read and enjoy the ones you do please 🤗

Oh and don’t forget to scroll to the bottom in case you didn’t find any that tickled your fancy. I tagged a bunch of tumblrs who handle fic recs, and who can help you find fics, so if you didn’t see anything here that works for you, maybe they can help!

Lastly, for easier reference, I’m also copying and pasting this as a Google doc that you can access with this link - feel free to pass on <3

Thank you TOG fandom for all the content you’ve created, and let’s show these authors some love!

Andy x Quynh

Let My Right Hand Wither And Turn To Dust by @displayheartcode - One Shot - Rated G

Water & Fire by @cryhardanddanceharder - Multi Chapter - Rated G

Between Heartbeats by @terapsina - One Shot - Rated T

Maybe Some Day (Distant Future, Distant Past) by @lilolilyr Multi Chapter - Rated T

Iron & Oxygen by @mekana47 One Shot - Rated M

Worship Me Not, Love Me Until The End by @hesselives - Multi Chapter - Rated M

Flame Sparks by @hsavinien - One Shot - Rated E

Coming Home by GlassRose - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Joe x Nicky

It’s Hard To Wake Up In The Morning by maddielle - One Shot - Rated G

Lunetta by edgy_fluffball - Multi Chapters - Rated G

From Here, I Can Pretend by @hermit-writes - One Shot - Rated T

1001 Nights, According To Yusuf by @tobebbanburg - Multi Chapters - Rated T

Let It Snow - by paperstorm - One Shot - Rated M

Goddess Of Victory by @shadowen - Multi Chapters - Rated M

Posterior Motives by Obscure_ramblings - One Shot - Rated E

Two Slow Dancers by incurableromancer - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Book of Nile

One Step Closer by @energievie - One Shot - Rated G

Concessions And Confessions by @peri-helia - Multi Chapters - Rated G

The Search by @rileywrites - One Shot - Rated T

Neck Kisses by Danger_Zone24 - Multi Chapters - Rated T

Endearments by lovedontroam - One Shot - Rated M

Heaven Upside Down by @highlightcity159 - Multi Chapters - Rated M

Your Chance To Do Some Damage by BelleRaev - One Shot - Rated E

You Have The Right To Lose Control by @nevermindirah - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Other Pairings

A Gentleman Never Kisses And Tells by @alit0my - One Shot - Rated G - Pairing: BookerxCopley

Damaged Tools Of A Long War by HSavinien - Multi Chapters - Rated G - Pairing: AndyxQuynhxLykon (and Joe and Nicky)

Tactical Makeouts by @glorious-spoon - One Shot - Rated T - Pairing: AndyxNile

Cry For Comfort by Lexzandrihya - Multi Chapters - Rated T - Pairing: OT3

Cult Of Dionysis by snarksaurus - One Shot - Rated M - Pairing: Everyone/Group

Look Over Your Hills And Be Still (The Sky Above Us Shoots To Kill) by thesepossessedbylight - One Shot - Rated E - Pairing: AndyxNile

Andy x Quynh

Night Of the New Moon by @nickydestati - Multi Chapters - Rated G

Waves Of Ink by @badwolfbadwolf - One Shot - Rated Teen

My Heart (Is Like A Haunted House) by @daniwouldnever - Multi Chapters - Rated Teen

Come With Me, Loving Me, To Death by moonflowery - One Shot - Rated M

These Fragile Flowers by thevorpalsword - Multi Chapters - Rated M

The Best Little Sex Shop In Soho by @hyper-fixate - One Shot - Rated E

Some Invisible String (Tying You To Me) by paupaupi - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Joe x Nicky

Bad At Mornings (But Good At This) by @wakandan-wardog - One Shot - Rated G

A Life Changing Romance by @nkp1981 - Multi Chapters - Rated G

Pressed Flowers Last Longer by @miraxb - One Shot - Rated T

The Painter And The Poet by LenschgerlWrites - Multi Chapter - Rated T

Ichor And Blood by OldMagpie - One Shot - Rated M

Speak Your Heart by ZionPhoenix - Multi Chapters - Rated M

More Than Kisses by fadagaski - One Shot - Rated E

You’re Making Me High by @asamandra - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Book of Nile

A General Librarian by @sweetlyenchains - One Shot - Rated G

It Might Not Be The Life We Dreamt Of, But It’s The Life We Want by nkp1981 - Multi Chapters - Rated G

The Kids Are Alright by @takethisnight-wrapitaroundme - One Shot - Rated T

The Old Guard Bookstore by Archangell & Danger_Zone24 - Multi Chapters - Rated T

Make A Haven Of Me by takethisnight_wrapitaroundme - One Shot - Rated M

Songs Written In Blood: A Nightingale’s Flight by WinterEquinox - Multi Chapters - Rated M

And Still My Heart Has Wings by allandmore99 - One Shot - Rated E

A Little Swim by @sindirimba - Multi Chapters - Rated E

Other Pairings

Silent In Transit by @randomingoftherandomness - Multi Chapters - Rated G - Pairing: OT3

Darling, The Marks You Leave On Me by Coruscant - One Shot - Rated Teen - Pairing: AndyxQuynh (with implied)xLykon - and Joe x Nicky

Basket Of Figs by @a-little-bit-of-ultra-violence - One Shot - Rated E - Pairing: Everyone/Group

The Old Guard Fic Recs

The Old Guard Fic Finder (hasn’t been updated since December 2020, but lots of pages to backread)

Andromaqyunh Fic Recs

Joe x Nicky AO3 Feed

Happy Reading!!

#the old guard fic recs #the old guard #tog #tog fic rec #tog fic recs #tog fandom #tog writers #fic writers #fic rec #fic recs #ao3 #ao3 fic #ao3 fic recs

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giotanner · 3 years

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Art Theft and Bullying in The Old Guard Fandom

Hey TOG fandom! Do you know that stealing art is a crime? Do you have a problem with bullying (“because that poc muslim artist deserves!11!” based on a random tumblr post) within Discord servers? You do?... then read on.

Please grab some cookies and tea (and get comfortable!) and read on. This is a SERIOUS matter that I, as an outsider, was able to see WITHOUT being influenced by anyone else. I am not friends with any of the people involved here, although after these events I have empathy towards them.

I’m telling you this so you won’t be able to say to me "you are allied with/you are influenced by"... That is not the case. I have facts and evidence, so please read! I will be talking about ART THEFT, BASHING, REPOSTING, AND DISGUSTING BULLYING BEHAVIOUR towards a person who is not even in the server. As a fellow fanartist I feel so bad because “this artist deserves it” in their mind.

(Now: apparently there is a part of the beautiful The Old Guard fandom that thinks: the characters and people’s headcanons are more important rather than an actual person's well-being, and with every new illustration by the artist, they are badly spoken of. Because… ugh, why not?)

I talked about facts, so here’s one:

If you joined this server (there are a couple servers with this name, please don't get mad at the wrong one - note the icon!) The first thing you know is: karanoidandroid is a racist and a homophobe… in their opinion. People and also these mods think this because of some posts on tumblr by white people. AH.

Why? Hearsay, bimbi belli. If you go to this artist's page you won't find a single racist thing (the artist is literally a POC who is brown and a Muslim. How? - you may say- What? Ah yes, she must be under "white influence! 11 !! bad POC !!" and who says that? Ah right, a white person. Or another POC with a different experience. wtf we have so many experiences, how can you say ‘you’re racist’ to a POC about this? Just because this artist’s preference is a different sex position, and no one is trying to force you to like it, eh!)

And from here on out... hatred. Terrible and personal hatred that has spread like wildfire. EVERYWHERE. Even people who know nothing about this fandom know that this artist is "racist and homophobic". Only.Because.Of.Hearsay.

So what did this artist do, you ask? She created a safe place on discord, away from tumblr. For people who like top!Joe. Don’t you like it? GOOD FOR YOU. That’s fantastic. We should as a fandom respect everyone's preference. This server was simply made so people could get away from tumblr and the drama and bullying. That’s it.

But did they leave this artist alone? No. The gossip had infected this fandom by now. It is now a "fact": this artist is x and y, you know. Because a couple people spread that, knowing nothing about the artist other than she was making a server they didn’t like.

Because THEY decided it. Because this artist decided not to fight and leave and you weren't satisfied with that.

Let’s BULLY a Muslim POC because we disagree with their views IN FANDOM! Because someone’s views on a CHARACTER are more important than an actual person, right? (According to sources who wished to remain anon, I know for sure the mod is white. A white mod is bullying and stealing the art of a brown Muslim woman because their views on FANDOM are different)

How?

READ these screenshots. They were posted a couple days ago. EVERY FUCKIN’ TIME this artist posted an art… they bully her. (So yeah, it’s NOT the first time)

No source, no link, no name. It was posted by a Mod (in blue) and the point is: a rule of this group is “don’t steal art/don’t put art without source” BUT HEY- WE’RE MODS and this artist deserves it!11!!1!)

This poc muslim artist didn’t insist on “top!joe only”. It’s just her preference, you know? I don’t care about people’s preferences. If you want to read more about how racial issues have somehow gotten involved in sexual position preferences, check out this post by +lgbtq poc with a degree in Medieval Islamic History x (note: his blog is gone (bullying again!) so the link is to a reblog)

“Where is the source?’ a person asks. They don’t want to put the source and THEY’RE THE MODS, they made that the R U L E.

But you already know, again only by hearsay: “the artist is homophobic and top!joe is full of bullshit”. (A mantra - but they’re NOT IN THE SERVER to know. It’s an assumption) What bullshit? I dunno. I’ve been on tumblr for the past few months and I read everything, and what I read is just a preference, not racism. But they went to the artist saying “you can’t”. Just because they have a different opinion. A ‘woke opinion’ against a POC Muslim artist. Well.

You don’t like her preference? Again: BRAVO. Amen, that’s okay. But it’s not “end of story kiss kiss”.

If you steal and you put a drawing without source… it’s not a joke anymore, do you know this mods? Even if you don’t like the artist or agree with all of her opinions, THEFT IS THEFT. There’s no excuse for it, especially if their excuse is saying the artist ‘deserves’ it.

Discord community Guidelines:

#1 Do not organize, participate in, or encourage harassment of others.

#17 You may not share content that violates anyone's intellectual property or other rights.

Anyway the artist deserves their art to be stolen ONLY BECAUSE OF HEARSAY everyone knows that she is..? (chorus: racist and homophobic!) And this was decided by white people and is now being used to bully a POC Muslim.

BRAVI! Have a biscuit!

You’re bashing and bashing and bashing and bashing for MONTHS, so now you don’t know the truth, but only this… because /this/ it’s common knowledge.

Stealing art and trying to say that's okay because they’ve decided that someone they don't know is racist doesn't change the fact they stole is disgusting. Then saying it’s just a joke? wow, the audacity.

The point of all this is clear: Since I hate this person/I have this immeasurable hatred towards this artist from posts that other people have made about her THEN I am a mod so I can do it, I am allowed to steal her art, bash the artist and mock her in other comments and every time this person just… exists.

THESE ARE THE FACTS. I have so many screenshots. Thanks to some people I know within the discord. This is only ONE day. It has happened before.

Why “that artist and linking her blog would break multiple server rules and make numerous people uncomfortable?” Ah, yes, c’mon you know… I know you know! (Chorus: Because the artist is racist and homophobic… even though they’ve never spoken to her, and are literally bullying a POC Muslim and refusing to source art)

Well, yeah, Without proof. Just “common knowledge and the same old “by hearsay” on tumblr. By ‘woke’ people and then it was shared by people like me or you if you don’t know the story.

And how did this story end? They stole the drawing. They put the stolen illustration in a group of TWO HUNDRED and SEVENTY PEOPLE and said “oops, i did it again” and they refuse to link the source. It’s stealing. And it’s serious. It’s terrible because they are bashing this artist all the time.

TO REITERATE

1.They STOLE an artist’s work and laughed about it, which is bullying and against their own rules. This has happened more than once with this artist.

2. When they were called out, they bullied the person calling them out.

3. When they didn’t like that they were called out, THE PEOPLE (yellow and green) CALLING THEM OUT WERE KICKED OUT OF THE SERVER, despite art theft and bullying being against the server rules. Again, the rules that they made.

Regardless of what you think of the artist, stealing art sets a dangerous precedent for future fandoms. If someone doesn’t like your opinion does that mean they can steal YOUR art/writing/creations? Because if you think it’s okay for this person’s art to be stolen because you don’t agree with them, that’s basically what you’re saying.

They were cruel. And TOG doesn’t deserve this. I love this movie so much. I love this fandom. I love to make fanarts of Joe and Nicky. Joe is so sweet, full of love, a true warrior and Nicky isn’t an Italian dramaqueen, he isn’t naive, he is kind and a bravo sniper. Two imperfect men, but perfect for each other. A Muslim and a Christian, a white and a brown man. Together. Not stereotyped. Wow, thanks at least for that 2020.

and I hope we can do better, in future.

#the old guard #the old guard fandom #the old guard art #bullying #stealing art in tog fandom #thank you very to all the people who worked HARD for this post #thank you for the informations #please reblog the truth with FACTS and not fake news about an artist only by HEARSAY #you can ask me (but not anon trolls)

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goldheartedsky · 3 years

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I told myself I wasn’t going to make a post like this—that I wasn’t going to stoop to the level of making call-out posts—but I really can’t stay silent after what has happened in the last day or so.

The TOG fandom has a serious issue with excusing antisemitism and allowing people who have painfully hurt marginalized groups to continue to ignore, dismiss, and refuse to acknowledge their limits of intersectionality in regards to social justice. I have seen it myself, been on the receiving end of it, and have talked to other Jews in this fandom about what’s been going on and it needs to start being addressed.

Now, I’m not going to name names or tag people (mainly because I have been blocked by almost all of them for this very issue) but if you message me I will gladly tell you the users involved in this. Also, if you have doubts of any of this’s validity and would like screenshots, feel free to reach out to me here or via Discord and I will share them.

A lot of this started when a member of the All&More server had brought up the scientific and medical “discoveries” during the torture and medical experimentation that took place during the Third Reich and how a lot of the origin of it isn’t taught. LR made a comment saying that “we are three-dimensional creatures who are stuck moving forward in time and can’t go back” and added that not using the research won’t make past horrors not happen. When the original user added that there has been a movement in medicine for removing Nazi scientists names off discoveries and that progress was slow moving, she deflected the conversation onto herself, saying “Not using research won’t make my family not harmed by the Japanese” and then immediately pivoted into admitting that, from what she understood, there weren’t any particularly valid scientific discoveries made by them. She then said, in regards to said Nazi atrocities, “Take it, learn about it, put it in context, and then own it and transform it.”

A Jewish member of A&M voiced their discomfort about possibly taking medicine that was a direct result of the murder of their grandparents and other relatives, to which LR said, “Still stuck in the 3rd dimension, still moving forward in time.” I brought up the fact that medicine was built on antisemitism and racism and that starting over would be better than a lot of the procedures we have now. There is a longstanding issue in medicine of disregarding black pain and so much of what we have now is created by eugenicists—including Nazi scientists. There is still a lot of Jewish trauma due to medical experimentation and that is oftentimes dismissed.

LR then made a flippant comment about “Does this count as Godwin’s Law?”—which is about how all internet discussions lead to someone being compared to Nazis/Hitler. When called out on the inappropriateness of the comment, she did not respond and was backed up by one of the mods of the server. There was no apology made nor an acknowledgment about the casual antisemitism of the comments she made and the dismissal of Jewish trauma/pain.

Now, fast forward a couple months when I was contacted by a third party who had not been in the server at the time but had joined and heard about what LR had said there. H said they were friends with LR and had concerns about antisemitism and would like my perspective. I explained what had happened and offered screenshots if they would like them, which they did. They thanked me and apologized that it got to a point that I felt unsafe in the server and had to leave, which I appreciated.

A couple weeks later they reached out to me again and offered to broker a conversation between LR and myself because the situation wasn’t sitting well with them. I was skeptical (because I had been blocked at that point) and didn’t have a lot of hope that this conversation would actually take place but I felt a responsibility to try and be the bigger person and deal with what had been said head on, so I agreed to sit down and have a discussion with her as long as there was a third party in the chat as well—given our history.

After a couple weeks of back and forth with H and hearing that LR had said that she would “think about it”, she finally agreed. I was asked for a time and date and I gave my availability and was told she would be asked for the same. A couple days later, I was suddenly told LR would only be comfortable with this conversation if H acted as a “literal go-between” with us copy-pasting our responses in their DMs so we can “sit with the message and everyone can get to them when they can” rather than it being a session with an actual back and forth and was asked if I was okay with that. I honestly said no, because this was supposed to be a situation where she and I sat down and discussed what she said in the server, not a back and forth message relay where the conversation got dragged out for days or weeks or however long it was going to take. I said if she was serious about meeting me halfway on this, she needed to be able to sit down and actually talk.

H copy-pasted my response to LR and came back that she had backed out of the conversation, which part of me had expected from the beginning—even though all I wanted from this sit down was for her to understand how hurtful the antisemitic comments were and an apology.

These comments that were made in the server are not a secret. It’s pretty well known what was said and again, these were all on record, not privately made in some DM. She has still not owned up to the comments she said, nor has she ever apologized for them. She has ignored message after message about them and blocked more people than I can count. Many of the people defending her when the discourse begins have also been messaged about the comments she’s said and also either block people or ignore the messages completely and refuse to acknowledge them.

Now, this being said, in the most recent conversation about fandom racism, someone brought up the post that was made reducing users on ao3 to faceless, nameless numbers without saying who they were, what they had done, and how they were specifically contributing to the problem of racism in this fandom. They made the comparison of other situations like HR looking at pay stats to see how to fire and included “Nazis, capitalists, and colonizers.”

This is not an invalid argument. There have been other Jews in the fandom who specifically voiced feeling uncomfortable for the exact same reason. However, another person, LT, decided to specifically make a post calling the OP out and drag them for having the audacity to liken it to the Shoah (which, mind you, this person is not Jewish nor did they decide to capitalize Shoah or the Holocaust as they should have). She received a reply saying, “you’re offended by antisemitism? Here’s LR’s (someone LT has agreed with multiple times over racism in fandom) track record of antisemitic comments” which outlined everything I delved into previously.

LT said that they were “unaware of this incident until a couple days ago” but agreed that it was an upsetting display of casual dismissal of Jewish pain and hoped that LR had apologized. She was then called out for being aware of it and still continuing to reblog LR’s posts even after knowing about the comments and was linked to my post clarifying that LR had not apologized and refused a discussion about it, to which LT said that she had gotten “quite a different version outlined in the post linked and corroborated by a third party” and “felt uncomfortable” making a value judgement, insinuating that I was not being truthful about my side of the story.

I messaged LT off-anon and said that I was not lying nor over-exaggerating about what had happened in the server or about the following discussion about trying to broker a conversation with LR, and was immediately blocked by her. I am also not the only Jew who has sent her messages about this topic, only to have their messages ignored.

Now, am I surprised that I was immediately blocked after voicing my issues with what LT had said in that post? No.

She has a history of making antisemitic comments, most of which happened during the brunt of the Israel/Palestine discussion happening, which included statements such as “You cannot be considered indigenous if you hold a position of power”, that, despite having been displaced for 2,000 years, the Jewish diaspora was “integrated” into their respective communities (a wholly untrue statement), as well as linked to and promoted a website with extremely antisemitic articles including one about “Spartan Jews” and how Israeli Jews are violent to “send messages to their deprived self-esteem” that they won’t be victims again. Half of the comments on the site’s front page included such hits as “Death to all Jews” and “Wow, I had no idea this was happening—I guess it is true that Jews control the world and the mass media.” This website was repeated in multiple posts as “unbiased” and “a good resource” for other people to truly know what was going on.

Jewish dissent on the content of some posts and that website went unacknowledged and dismissed.

Being that LT is a relatively big user in the TOG fandom, her posts got circulated frequently. Seeing things like that touted as unbiased was extremely triggering for me and multiple Jews in this fandom that I’ve spoken to.

Now, the reason I made this post in particular was because I have seen a lot of echoing of the sentiment: “no matter how much you disagree with their sentiment, aligning yourself with racists is...well aligning yourself with racists.”

This statement NEEDS to become intersectional. If we are criticizing the work of people because of who they hold company with, why does that end at racism? If we are going to have a discussion about racism in this fandom, why are we letting it come from people who have openly said antisemitic things, people who have stood by them and supported them in silence, and people who have silenced Jewish voices speaking up about this issue.

These are not separate issues. This is a really good post regarding the white washing of Jews in social justice discussion and it comes full circle into the medical experimentation discussion. Jews were not seen as white during the Holocaust. The Nazis were trying to cleanse the Aryan race because they did not view Jews as white. They experimented on them because they did not view them as white and, thus, disposable.

Every Jewish diasporic community is still vulnerable. Even though the US has half the world’s Jews, over 50% of the religiously based hate crimes are consistently anti-Jewish even though Jews make up 2% of the population. Chinese Jews are still holding their holiday celebrations in secret due to government crackdowns. The attempted genocide of Beta Israel was less than 50 years ago. Across the Middle East and North Africa, Jewish communities are barely hanging on after centuries of attempted destruction. These are not just Jewish issues but racial issues as well because when people make the sweeping generalization of “Jew” and they only mean white-passing Ashkenazi Jews, it erases so much of our community.

I absolutely agree that this fandom needs to have a discussion about race and portrayal in fic and what we can do better moving forward—and I want to see that done—but we also need to acknowledge what so many people starting this discussion have said and the marginalized groups they have hurt along the way. I see these posts come across my dashboard and know exactly who they're coming from and what they think of people like me. If we are going to say, “No matter how much you disagree with their sentiment, aligning yourself with racists is aligning yourself with racists,” then we NEED to be saying, “If you are aligning yourself with antisemites, you’re aligning yourself with antisemites.”

We all need to move forward. But that means moving forward together. Jews included.

#i just really needed to get this off my chest #I really don’t want to start shit but some of this has been bothering me for months and I can’t stay quiet anymore #I’m just so tired #intersectionality includes Jews pass it on

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fromthefishbowl · 3 years

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Oh i love you for saying Lazaefair's name outloud.Not just you, I appreciate everyone in this fandom who had the guts to call her out.I understand people who are hesitant to call her out, cause she's a snake who have an exceptional knack in gaslighting and turning anything and everything in her favour. Lazaefair, Len and their cronies have hurt so many people inside and outside tog fandom and i won't be surprised if people come out saying they had suicidal thoughts because of these people.These racist antisemitic people needs to be called out ( and i loved the way how you mentioned the cronies without saying their name) . Their 'All and more' discord server is the most toxic racist discord in this fandom cause all they do is cover up all the racist and antisemitic bullshit done by their mods. (well, people do have reciepts of all the things they said in that server)

They should be held accountable for the things they did. They should apologize for every horrid things they did to poc, muslims,jews, writers, content creators and even fans.

Then there are the 'silent ones' ( theres a lot) or the blind devotees (yeah they too follow lazaefair and lens bible) who just keeps on making their cute little posts and a reblogging posts as if nothing happened in this fandom. All i have to say is they are straight up racist. Its like they are all part of this cult.

I am really holding myself back from naming the cronies because its not my place.But they all need to be called out by their victims.

Remember these people have been decieving and bullying people in the tog fandom for a year. For a YEAR they disguised as adults engaging in race conversations and fighting racism but they were like actual 12 year olds making "lists" and sending death threats to people.

But i have to warn you a particular "newb" or a different crony is gonna send you some death threats for mentioning lazaefairs name. Just be prepared to fight that anonymous 12 year old.

They better not start sending anon hate or threats or nasty comments, because everybody will know it's them and their reputation is already six feet under as is. Making it sink even lower would be embarrassing even for their standards.

And I have already mentioned this to a couple of friends, but... it's hysterical that these people are literally know for sending death and rape threats - across multiple fandoms too!!! -, pushing people out of fandom, harassing, bullying, and vagueblogging, and yet they took time to create a secret Discord server to recruit people into and "make the fandom great again" or some shit, as if they weren't the ones who ruined it in the first place - also by spreading actual misinformation and accusing actual MENA people of not telling the truth, with Lazaefair who worked real hard to spread the rumor that one of the MENA bloggers who were writing informative posts was actually an evil sockpuppet, and rejoicing when they wrote their last post before leaving fandom after receiving weeks worth of death threats, because we can't forget that! How dare anybody cross the ignorant American woman and her equally ignorant French bestie and their shit takes???

I was never in A&M, literally the only TOG servers I've ever been in are Top!Joe and the Zine one, but... if things are how people told me... whew, guys. And they are supposed to be the good guys? The righteous ones who put us on the right road and teach us how to be better people?

Them having a secret server also explains how it was possible that all the "big names" in the fandom who supported discourse, from Miss Finland to Miss Racefaker and their little cronies too, went real quiet just before the beginning of Pornathon and the day the event began they suddenly began yapping and whining about racism again, reblogging from each other, spitting out the same two takes - I loved, loved, when I pinned Len down when she was trying to shit on people for being """antisemitic""" and reminded her that Lazaefair is actually antisemitic, and Len pretended that she didn't know her lmao. If I were Lazaefair, just for that I would've thrown her under the bus as soon as the exposé was posted. Now that I think about it... was I the catalyst that caused her to write that racist as hell post? The one with the MENA boys who conveniently look like Majid because that's totes how all MENA boys look like in Europe?

Here's the thing: you don't suddenly go online and become antisemitic or racist or xenophobic because you read rambling posts that barely make any grammatical and syntactic sense. You don't suddenly begin sending death and rape treats, insults, threatening people to post about them on KiwiFarms - someone is trying to be edgy here lmao - if you are a decent person. And you don't go out of your way to defend people who are. They were always shitty, they were always antisemitic and racist and awful people. Len and Lazaefair just gave them the authorization to let it all out.

And I agree with you: they absolutely should apologize for the shit they have done and said in the past months, but would that be enough? Would that repair the hurt they caused? Like... apologies are nice, but will they delete Len and Lazaefair's posts from their blogs? Write down that they are awful people who say awful things? Because at this moment I've seen a looooot of excuses but not a single apology - and I very much doubt that any is gonna come from any of them. Their little antisemitic, racist, xenophobic hearts cannot bear to have been proven wrong and that their savior is a flavorless, privileged French lady who is paler than the people they have harassed in her name - me included, which is so, so funny.

#fishie answers #anon

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aelinbitch-archive · 5 years

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unpopular opinion: i don’t like rowan/rowaelin. i’m not here to convince u to unstan lol ppl are allowed to like/dislike things w/o feeling bad about it omg but i hate that some rowan stans are so insensitive when it comes to those who don’t like him! they’re so thirsty for him that they condemn anyone who doesn’t stan him & then excuse his problematic/lowkey triggering actions bc he’s hot and it’s gross. AGAIN not saying ppl can’t like rowan it’s ok lol but it’s more about some stan’s behavior

That’s totally fair my angel. I dislike the vibe that some people are locked out of the fandom for not being a cheerleader for every aspect of the series, and I hope that my followers/mutuals know that if they dislike stuff I like, or like stuff I dislike, expressing their opinions regarding that won’t ever cause me to cut them off (unless it’s like, some truly gross shit, which disliking rowaelin isn’t).

Also I have to say, even tho I do like rowaelin, I understand where you’re coming from about people excusing his actions because he’s hot. I’ve toooooootally seen that. And I’ll just be 100% honest - no shade to anyone, but some of the rowaelin content on this website disturbs me a little bit, in terms what’s considered hot/romantic/acceptable when writing or depicting them in art. I’ve seen some weird stuff defended as hot or even just “not that bad.” Which isn’t necessarily a problem with canon, but your ask was more about stans anyway, so yeah.

A while ago I actually wrote rowaelin meta in response to some other peeps (which was more about Aelin in relation to Rowaelin and how she’s included or not included in discussions of the ship, but it has some thoughts relevant to this ask) so I’m gonna just copy and paste what I wrote below and feel free to read if u want. (It’s like very overdramatic and fiery lmao but anyway).

I agree with a lot of this, but (at risk of derailing ms aelinapologist’s amazing post) I do have a few things to say, which are

1. OP took two whole paragraphs at the beginning of her post to say that the point wasn’t to discourse about rowaelin being abuse or not abuse, it was to talk about how the conversations centering around said abuse consistently display a disturbing lack of empathy for the character who should be the main concern of the debate. So I just find it a bit funny/odd that the replies (including a portion of the one I’m about to make, I admit that) have been like “Yeah great post! And now to discourse about Rowaelin-” but I digress.

2. I have consistently loved reading about Rowan and Aelin and they’re one of my favorite fictional couples. So nothing I’m about to say is intended to be like “GOTCHA they suck and you suck for liking them!!!” Because I like them as well. A lot. And in addition, nothing about this reblog is intended to be shady or confrontational in any way shape or form. I just think this is a great and very needed discussion I’d like to contribute to, so here goes.

3. Even if we look at HoF alone and ignore how things play out later: yes, they are both mean to one another, yes, they are both in a dark place and end up having a mutually positive effect on one another (so I definitely agree that, at least for HoF alone, it’s not a “douchey guy changes for the heroine story”) but. There IS still a power imbalance. I don’t think it’s entirely accurate to say “they were both bad The End” without also bringing up the fact that Rowan is 300 years old and Aelin is 18, and that Rowan is training Aelin and is in a position that gives him a massive amount of control over her, and that he is stronger and more powerful than her physically, magically, and socially (he is a prince and legendary warrior, she is a AWOL teenage princess currently working as a scullery maid).

Maybe I’m reading into it too much, but I really just don’t think that Aelin, a 17 y/o girl going through an unimaginably shitty time, being like “fuck you!!” to this 300 y/o jerk who doesn’t know shit about her is on the same level as aforementioned 300 y/o jerk hitting her, biting her, and telling her she would have been of more use to the world if she’d died when she was eight.

And in addition to that, we see that his behavior effects her a lot more than it effects him. When he verbally tears her down, we see her experience genuine and devastating despair and shame, whereas everything she does and says to him, no matter how snarky or outright cruel, is not having that same effect on him. People always seem to think they’re giving Aelin credit for being a Strong Woman™ by saying “she’s tough! she can handle it!” when in reality… we have evidence for the fact that she kinda can’t handle it. That the way he treats her in the beginning is slowly wearing her down and sending her deeper into a depressive state. And I don’t understand how it somehow reflects poorly on Aelin (or is even misogynist) to acknowledge this. Women, especially literal teenage girls, should not be measured by their tolerance for mistreatment.

All I really wish is that somewhere along the line we’d gotten a genuine apology from Rowan for this besides a throwaway line in KoA about regretting their “brawling.” And again, none of this is to say “see!! it IS abuse!!” it’s just to suggest that, even as an enemies to friends to lovers story, the “enemies” part was not exactly on a level playing field.

4. But with that being said, I could probably forgive the imbalance in their early relationship, mostly because their later relationship, as both friends and lovers, is so amazing and supportive in pretty much every way. And the great thing about enemies to FRIENDS to lovers, like you said, is that 1) none of the assholery occurred during any kind of romantic or sexual relationship or a transition into one, so it was sort of “fair and square” in that way, and 2) they had the opportunity form a solid, platonic foundation of trust and caring before they crossed into the lover territory.

Aaaaaaaaaand then Sarah did a retcon job on HoF which negated… pretty much all of that. I can totally be down with “good old fashioned mutual hatred thaws into caring which grows into love” but once we start hearing shit like “‘Sometimes, you’d be sleeping beside me at Mistward, and it’d take all my concentration not to lean over and bite them. Bite you all over’” and “‘That was the first time I really lost control around you, you know. I wanted to chuck you off a cliff, yet I bit you before I knew what I was doing. I think my body knew, my magic knew. And you tasted… So good. I hated you for it’”……. hhhhhhhhhhh.

I can’t think of many arguments for this NOT contributing at least a little to the “he’s mean because he loves you (and stick it out because someday he’ll figure it out)” trope. And while it might be a bit different because Aelin was quite mean as well, her behavior was just… meanness. Not some sort of weird outlet for repressed sexual attraction/love. I guess I just get flashbacks of “No sweetie, that boy in your class kicks your desk, pulls your hair, and calls you names because he likes you and doesn’t know how to express it.”

And I think this decision on Sarah’s part to go back and say he was into her all along is 1) a result of the mating bond thing she’s so fond of and 2) kind of a panicked backpedalling to the backlash she might have gotten over Rowan’s behavior in HoF? Which is…. so ironic because she made it SO much worse. In my humble opinion, she should have just doubled down on what she originally wrote as enemies-friends-lovers (and had Rowan bring up his early behavior and apologize in some way), and the problem would have been solved. And while I personally feel that I can recognize this for what it is - a shitty retcon - and enjoy the relationship despite it, I don’t think we should talk over people for whom this is a deal-breaker for the ship.

5. I don’t think about all of this and have the reaction that so many “anti tog” people seem to have of “FUCK Rowan he’s ABUSIVE and PREDATORY and I wish he was DEAD!!!” I think there are things to criticize about his behavior and about the way Sarah decided to spin their relationship, but they have had many great moments, especially in the later books, and I don’t think I or anyone else is “shipping abuse” by enjoying that. All of this is just to emphasize how, in OP’s very succinct words, “your inalienable right to enjoy two characters’ dynamic does not outweigh the right to criticise it.” Because there ARE valid things to criticize, and we as Rowaelin shippers (lol.) need to be careful not to conflate ugly hatred with valid criticism when we speak over it.

And because there IS so much ugly hatred for Aelin and her relationship with Rowan on this website, I completely understand why there’s a kind of knee-jerk reaction of jumping to defense of this ship we love. But that impulse, quite frankly, means nothing to me if defense of Rowaelin includes the erasure of Aelin’s canonical experiences. And maybe this is wacky and controversial, but I’m pretty sure we can express our enjoyment of Rowaelin AND keep Aelin as an individual from being swept under the rug.

6. More than saying any of that what I really really want to do (and have been trying to do in the previous paragraphs, but maybe unsuccessfully) is bring the conversation back to OP’s original point which was not “abuse!” or “not abuse!” but about how the ways in which we discuss “abuse or not abuse” often includes a stomach-turning lack of concern for Aelin and some frustratingly reductive arguments. And somehow I have the sneaking suspicion that Rowaelin shippers are reading this post and missing the point, which that this is happening on BOTH sides of the argument.

Everyone is perfectly entitled to ship Rowaelin and argue their opinion about its merits or lack thereof, but when we cover our ears and say “she was mean too she was mean too she was mean too she was mean too la la la la la la la” that’s completely ignoring the genuine pain that she did experience in HoF and the power imbalance that she was subjected to, no matter whether or not we personally feel that it was sufficiently rectified in later books.

And I see this ALL THE TIME, in both the fandom and “anti-fandom”, and I’m honest to god quite sick of it. I’m sick of the willful ignorance of a teenage girl’s pain in order to further an agenda. Yes, it’s more stomach-turning when the agenda is to prove what an evil bitch she is or whatever, but it’s not excusable if your agenda is to prove Rowaelin is great, either! And I don’t understand why we have to throw all nuance out the window and ignore how Dorian hurt her, ignore how Chaol hurt her, ignore how Rowan hurt her, fucking hell, ignore how SAM hurt her, just so we can make our arguments! Because as much as the antis love to scream about “WHAT MESSAGE IS THIS TERRIBLE SHIP SENDING THE TINY GIRL-CHILDREN WHO READ THE BOOKS???” it’s also like, what kind of message is our ongoing discussion of it sending by sweeping a teenage girl’s experiences under the rug when we argue about her relationships?

And like OP said, what have we even got to show for it? No conclusion has been reached, nothing has been achieved besides valuing a romance (or the hatred of that romance and preference for a different romance) over individual characters, namely an individual character who happens to be a teenage girl that has suffered an ungoldy amount - suffered, sometimes, at the hands of male characters we like.

In conclusion, the mass allergy everyone seems to have to giving a shit about Aelin unless its to further their agenda is sickening. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve had to hear about how poor Manon’s character was “ruined” by Manorian (although not directly by DORIAN, of course, because apparently Saint Haviliard can do no wrong) I’d have enough money to buy a lamborghini and drive it off a cliff like I wish I could every time I hear someone’s terrible hot take about how Aelin is complicit in her own alleged abuse. Yet somehow I’ve never heard anyone complain about the damage done to Aelin’s character by any of the male characters, including Rowan. It’s never “Rowan ruined Aelin’s character!!” it’s “Rowaelin sucks and so does Aelin.” In fact, one of the REASONS Aelin sucks in the first place IS Rowan/Rowaelin! What a great implicit message to send to people reading your “critiques”: if you are annoying and #problematic enough, your suffering will be used against you and you will receive no sympathy for it. Cool!

And for other ships, too: it’s never “Chaol and Dorian, while at points a very good for Aelin, also caused her a lot of pain” it’s either “Chaol was right about Aelin in QoS and both he and Dorian are ruined because of her #chaorian” OR, from the fans, who, again, are not off the hook, “Chaol and Dorian and Aelin are BFFs forever #originaltrio.” And as a teenage girl myself, who loves and identifies with Aelin, who is more invested in her story than anyone else’s… I’m just tired. And more than a little appalled. And I wish we could do better.

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longsightmyth · 5 years

Text

Myth Reads the Naming, Chapter 21

PELLINOR

The chapter is called Council of Friends and I for one could use some more friendship is magic stuff in my life, bring it on.

Maerad has a nightmare and a voice speaks in something that is almost the Speech but fucked up. It says, “I am again, but none shall find my dwelling, for I live in every human heart.”

I just wanted friendship, book. You promised me friendship.

She wakes up and reassures herself, and then Hem knocks on her door having also had nightmares. They huddle together and fall back to sleep.

Maerad wakes up to a beautiful morning and Hem, eating bread in a corner. He’s been waiting for her to wake up. She asks how Cadvan is and Hem doesn’t seem to care much (which, fair) but says he’s probably still sleeping and Maerad should hurry up because there is food (I appreciate a lot about this interaction. If I forget to mention it in the comparison please bug me so I can talk about it in a reblog or something). Maerad kicks him out to get dressed and then they walk down to get lunch together.

When they get to the sitting room, Cadvan is awake and chatting with Saliman. Cadvan is the worse for wear still but he’s talking and awake and teasing Maerad a little bit, and Maerad almost cries with how happy she is that he’s alive, black eye and stitched up face cuts and all. He assures her when she asks that he feels great and sends her off to the food.

Appetite sated (Hem comes with her for seconds) the siblings return to Cadvan and Saliman, who are discussing Saliman’s journey. Turns out Saliman was attacked by three hulls and killed them, but not before they killed his horse. He’s pretty sad about it and so am I: horse death is sad. The horses are just doing their best okay.

Anyway, Nelac comes in while Maerad is looking out at the gardens and says that most of his flowers survived the storm. Maerad immediately likes him, not least because he fixed up Cadvan and reminds her of Cadvan.

Hem continues to eat as the adult bards convene and catch each other up on everything, and when they get to the part about the Kulag Cadvan admits he was in a hurry and not as careful as he should have been with magic or travel. He credits Maerad with getting them all out alive.

“I wondered…,” said Maerad, and then stopped.

“What, O my Deliverer?” said Cadvan.

Maerad blushed again at his teasing. “I wondered if the Landrost had hurt you, and that was why…” she faltered and stopped again.

“The Landrost did indeed hurt me,” said Cadvan. “And I was less in my power than I could be. But that is no excuse for rushed decisions and the mistakes that come with them. I judge myself at fault, and so I am; and it is a severe judgment, Maerad, because things very nearly were otherwise, and the result would have been terrible for many more than us.”

Maerad saw for an instant an implacable harshness in Cadvan’s face, and she shivered; she thought she would not like to be judged by Cadvan, had she done any real wrong.

They continue to catch up, and Nelac remembers hearing about the Treesong somewhere but he’ll have to look for it again, but Saliman Knows What’s Up and sings a verse from the poem at the beginning of chapter 17, which I will transcribe here so nobody has to search the hellscape that is my tumblr tags:

Grows a Lily on the Briar

Grows a Briar on the Wave

Triple-tongued its voice of Fire

Edil-Amarandh with save

True and false the cunning Flame

Burning in the darkest Night

False and true the secret Name

Quickened in the womb of Light

Where the Briar on the Foam?

Doth the Lily stemless stand?

Who will bring the Singing home?

Where the Harp? And whose the Hand?

Nelac is like ‘lol it almost sounds like you’re saying Maerad, who can speak common, Elidhu, and the Speech, is the Foretold’

Cadvan’s ACTUAL (specified as distracted and absent) RESPONSE: “Yes, yes, of course I am.”

Maybe warn a guy before you drop prophetic bombs in his lap, Cadvan.

Nelac thinks about it a minute and sorta soul searches Maerad with eye contact is like ‘okay fine you may have a point’. Also the Treesong is a super ancient song, he remembers.

Nelac ALSO wants to scry Hem. Hem is not having it rn and runs into the garde. Maerad chastises Nelac with all the vehemence of a sibling vs outsiders and heads after her brother. After assuring Hem that SHE believes him, obviously, and that Cadvan does, he agrees to come back inside, where Nelac straight up bribes him with food to be scried later. Hem is like ‘well if there’s FOOD’ and agrees, which, fair.

Further, Nelac says they have to figure out where Hem can go to bard school because Norloch is being Particularly Racist at the moment and Hem, unlike Maerad, looks very Pilanel. Cadvan says irritably that Hem would like other schools better anyway, fuck Norloch (okay not in quite those words but it’s close).

Saliman: hey no worries I’ll take the kid home with me where racist dickheads aren’t in charge. Sound good, Hem?

Hem: Boy does it!

Section paraphrased for clarity.

Also, Nelac adds, y’all haven’t been here in a while so let me tell you what else Enkir has fucked up: no more lady bards can train at Norloch.

The fuck, everyone in the room basically mouths in unison.

Nelac: so the flaw in our system is, if all of our elected officials are old white rich white dudes with The Right Families then it turns out they elect an old rich white dude with The Right Family as leader, which means even the relatively benevolent old rich white dudes get outvoted when it comes to civil rights and not destroying the world because these guys have no concept of doing anything for other people even in the name of self interest.

Not that we know anything about that in the States or anything.

Everybody agrees that a council must be called regarding world saving because they still labor under the delusion that old rich white dudes with The Right Families in power give a shit what happens to the world if it doesn’t affect them in the next five minutes. The poor saps.

Cadvan shows Maerad around Norloch and assures her once again that even if she isn’t the foretold it’s no biggie, he’ll take her to a good bard school.

“Would you stay there?” she asked, knowing the answer already.

He glanced at her quickly, his face unreadable. “For a time, until you were settled in,” he said.

When they get back, Hem wants Maerad there while he’s scried. Nelac says it’s unusual, but so is scrying a child so why not. There isn’t much to see since we aren’t in Hem’s PoV, but Nelac confirms that Hem is Maerad’s brother and everybody rejoices. Maerad offers to get them something to drink, does so, and leaves, feeling like she intruded.

At dinner, which Hem actually skips, they make a game plan for presenting Maerad-as-The-Foretold to the council. Nelac is going to do it alone for political reasons. That’s the end of the chapter.

THRONE OF GLASS

Three chapters of ToG is a fitting punishment for taking so long I guess. 46,47,48.

Dorian is hunting through the woods to ‘let the freezing air rush through him’ and burn off steam regarding Celaena, who apparently watches him like a cat watching a mouse, which is different from every single other woman ever, who otherwise look at him adoringly.

Dorian, I would think Kaltain fits that description. I’m just saying.

Apparently Celaena makes him want to be a better king or whatever by watching him and he’ll never be happy with any other woman now that he’s kissed her and he’s worried about her in the duel. Sure.

CELAENA’S POV.

She’s thinking about the duel, worries that Cain might be better because he has stamina (I mean this is a valid concern: Celaena can’t seem to do any sort of strenuous physical activity without throwing up, her stamina IS crap) and then that she might have to obey the King of Adarlan if she’s his Champion.

I’m not sure what you thought you were signing up for, Celaena?

Then she decides she wants to stay in the castle because Hot Dudes, I guess.

NEXT CHAPTER.

Kaltain drugs Celaena’s goblet(?) in the outside duel.

Swap to Celaena’s PoV, where she complains about the cold and thinks that she doesn’t know why they have to have the duels outside. Me neither, Celaena. Me neither.

She recognizes a couple of council members who hired her in the past, and then Nehemia shows up. For reasons?

Anyway, the king makes a speech, the duels start, Cain wins his. Celaena thinks that the other guys hadn’t even lasted three minutes, which, I mean. People generally greatly overestimate how long fights take, especially fights that aren’t specifically hemmed in for competition. Three minutes is a long time to fight one on one for your life?

Oh wait they aren’t fighting to the death. That would be too men for the demon infested king? I don’t know.

Chaol offers Celaena his sword to fight with, and Nehemia offers her Nehemia’s staff instead.

“If I may,” Nehemia said in Eyllwe, “I’d like to offer this to you instead.” The princess held out her beautifully carved iron-tipped staff. Celaena glanced between Chaol’s sword and her friend’s weapon. The sword, obviously, was the wiser choice—and for Chaol to offer his own weapon made her feel strangely lightheaded—but the staff…

Nehemia leaned in to whisper in Celaena’s ear. “Let it be with an Eyllwe weapon that you take them down.” Her voice hitched. “Let wood from the forests of Eyllwe defeat steel from Adarlan. Let the King’s Champion be someone who understands how the innocents suffer.”

So Celaena chooses the staff, which is actually a GREAT weapon vs a sword assuming you know how to use it for a myriad of reasons? Why would a sword be a wiser choice? Why is that obvious? Especially if it’s ‘iron-tipped’ by which I think she means capped, but whatever. We already knew very little research went into this, I’m lucky Celaena isn’t using that soap and hairpin thing.

She’s going to fight Grave. Don’t worry about it, we’ll get an explanation about him in the second book when he suddenly becomes relevant again.

Chaol squeezed her hand, his skin warm in the frigid air. “Give him hell,” he said. Grave entered the ring and drew his sword.

Pulling her hand from Chaol’s, Celaena straightened her spine as she stepped into the ring. She quickly bowed to the king, then to her opponent.

She met Grave’s stare and smiled as she bent her knees, holding the staff in two hands.

You have no idea what you’re getting yourself into, little man.

NEXT CHAPTER.

Grave’s first move is to try to break her staff. I. I’m just. Whatever at this point.

His sword gets stuck in her staff when he hits, and she punches him in the nose. He gets angry and charges, “aiming a direct blow to her heart.” She knocks his legs out from underneath him and puts the staff to his throat, which ends the fight I guess, though he doesn’t yield and isn’t injured aside from a broken nose.

She brought her mouth close to his ear. “My name is Celaena Sardothien,” she whispered. “But it makes no difference if my name’s Celaena or Lillian or Bitch, because I’d still beat you, no matter what you call me.” She smiled at him as she stood. He just stared up at her, his bloody nose leaking down the side of his cheek. She took the handkerchief from her pocket and dropped it on his chest. “You can keep that,” she said before she walked off the veranda.

She intercepted Chaol as soon as she crossed the line of chalk. “How long did that take?” she asked. She found Nehemia beaming at her, and Celaena lifted her staff a little in salute.

“Two minutes.”

She grinned at the captain. She was hardly winded. “Better than Cain’s time.”

How slowly are these people moving? Why are we counting time? What is HAPPENING.

Anyway they have a toast.

“Out of good faith, and honor to the Great Goddess,” Kaltain said in a dramatic voice. Celaena wanted to punch her. “May it be your offering to the Mother who bore us all. Drink, and let Her bless you, and replenish your strength.”

I want that all noted for the record on the religion front.

Celaena is thrown directly into fighting Cain without any more of a rest and does not realize she’s been drugged.

The conqueror of Erilea raised his hands.

“Begin!” he roared, and Celaena shook her head, trying to clear her blurry vision. She steadied herself, wielding the staff like a sword as Cain began circling. Nausea flashed through her as his muscles flexed. For some reason, the world was still hazy. She clenched her teeth, blinking. She’d use his strength against him.

Cain charged faster than she anticipated. She caught his sword on the broad side with the staff, avoiding the sharp edges, and leapt back as she heard the wood groan.

He struck so quickly that she had to concede to the edge of his blade. It sank deep into the staff. Her arms ached from the impact. Before she could recover, Cain yanked his sword from her weapon and surged toward her. She could only bound back, deflecting the blow with the iron tip of the staff.

Given that Celaena is a, an assassin, b, just had a refresher course on poisons, and c, has been poisoned like this at least once before in the prequel novellas, I don’t know what to tell anybody here. Finally she gets it when she hears Kaltain laugh.

She had difficulty holding the staff. Cain came at her, and she had no choice but to meet his blows, barely having the strength to raise the weapon each time. How much bloodbane had they given her? The staff cracked, splintered, and groaned.

Did Nehemia give her a wimpy-ass staff or does Celaena just not know how to use it to deflect rather than just take the full force of a blade? His sword sinks into it, it splinters and cracks? Y’all. No.

She had to end this now, before the hallucinations started. She knew they’d be powerful: seers had once used bloodbane as a drug to view spirits from other worlds. Celaena shot forward with a sweep of the staff. Wood slammed into steel.

The staff snapped in two.

The iron-tipped head soared to the other side of the veranda, leaving Celaena with a piece of useless wood.

Y’all. Y’ALL. You don’t even know how much I’m despairing right now.

Anyway, we go through Dorian and Chaol’s PoVs in quick succession to show that they’re worried about her and are probably in love, because sure, that’s what’s important right now, why not.

Celaena starts seeing creatures from another world as Cain keeps beating her up and Chaol keeps telling her to get up. Apparently the eye of Elena actually was protecting her, because…

Cain reached for her throat, and she flung herself backward. All that he managed to grab was her amulet. With a resounding snap, the Eye of Elena ripped from her neck.

The sunlight disappeared, the bloodbane seizing control of her mind again, and Celaena found herself before an army of the dead. The shadowy figure that was Cain raised his arm, dropping the amulet upon the ground.

They came for her.

That’s the end of the chapter. Thank goodness.

COMPARISON

Say it with me: I despair.

These chapters are pretty different from each other, but I said I wanted to talk about Hem and food and I do.

Both Hem and Maerad have been deprived all their lives, and while Maerad is slightly less preoccupied with filling her stomach than Hem, she also does not in my memory refuse food when it is offered, and only ever delights in the fact that she has it. Hem, obviously, is a little more fixated, but Maerad usually got ENOUGH to eat by virtue of her musical talent and value and the whole superstition thing. Hem rarely did.

Celaena turns her nose up at salmon and complains when chicken is a little bit dry. It’s just not behavior I would expect from someone starved in a salt mine for a year.

Pellinor’s mythology and religion and society remains consistent. ToG’s still rolling with the one goddess lots of little gods thing for now.

I’m just glad that Celaena used an actual weapon (poorly) and didn’t try to get creative. God knows what she would have done with a blade of grass or something. Why are we timing our fights. How was Chaol watching the clock closely enough to know that AND watching the fight. This could all have been solved with some research.

STATS

Pages: 23

Fragments: 36

Em-Dashes: 50

Ellipses: 14

Pages: 22

Fragments: 6

Em-Dashes: 2

Ellipses: 13

#myth reads the books of Pellinor #myth reads the naming #myth rags on throne of glass #myth talks

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