#so no lwj trying to keep jc away from wwx isn't him being a 'bad' character

[llycaons]

ep24 (pt 2): wwx and lxc best brothers in law and I stand by it

I was worried this ep would be boring but it has not one, not two, but THREE great character-driven conversations, and this first one coming up that's one of my favorites scenes in the whole show. it's time for LAN XICHEN'S INTERVENTION TALK

people call this a shovel talk, and that annoys me because 1. they are way more popular in fanfic than I think they are in real life and 2. he's not threatening wwx, he's reminding him that people care about him and try to keep that into account and whatever is going on it's bad for you and we can HELP you!. it's not quite an intervention, and it's undertaken as much for lwj's sake as wwx's, but it's close. and I believe that lxc is fond of wwx. he likes him!

wwx taking liberties with the actual sect leader is really funny esp since lxc is so polite about it and wwx is like super embarassed immediately after. he doesn't overreact like lwj, so wwx is properly chastened

famous foreshadowing line

YES YOU DO??!!!! this is coming immediately after jc's scene lamenting that wwx isn't there to help lmao

very funny of him. he's like 'oh hehe I'll come to him if he can't come here! visiting my friend who's copying texts and just watching him will be super fun!' boy you are so far gone you're happy at the idea of just sitting there watching him write...

the double meaning here really slams you in the chest. I can see why people consider it a shovel talk but it's really not! he just wants wwx to understand people (lwj) care about him and are trying to help him

it feels like this is THE most direct acknowledgement of what wwx and lwj have going on, at least as of yet

he is but. buddy. buddy

oh and this short argument is enthralling. ALL their issues piling up

jc pushes wwx down expecting him to be able to defend himself, and when he can't he's confused and blames him...and the kicker is, when he actually goes to try to help him, wwx tells him to stay away. another microcosm of their relationship...

wwx is being super frustrating but jc really can't wrap his head around not knowing something huh. he just can't accept a change without understanding why it happened

this scene is sooo sad...jyl crying in the shrine, wonderinf ig wwx will leave them, wwx reassuring her of course not, where would I go? but that's not really an answer, is it? I don't think wwx wants to leave LP, or ever truly wanted to, but he can have conflicting feelings about his home as a site of great trauma for him, a place he no longer feels he can contribute to, and a place where he faces verbal attacks daily. after jyl left, it was really not a healthy environment for him...

you wound me!

he is her little boy...she will forgive him anything *flashes forward* well almost anything

probably for the best

from wwx pov it was as if a large purple savior descended from the clouds with the most delicious food he'd ever eaten in his life and offered him a permanent home. of course he's attached

...given how trusting he was of strangers giving him food, it's a good thing nothing else bad happened to him. well, maybe he had good intuition even back then for people he shouldn't trust. he's been a really good judge of people overall excepting his initial judgement of lwj, and of jgy

#cql re-rewatch

[neverdoingmuch]

.

#something i see a lot is people getting annoyed at lwj for getting between jc and wwx #like saying that lwj shouldn't be so defensive and try & keep jc away from wwx bc how can they reconcile then!! #and it's like sweet yeah if you want a reconciliation that can definitely get in the way of it #but look at it from lwj's pov #he was told by everyone that jc killed wwx and jc never said anything to contradict that #(i think?? i dont remember that part very well??) #and then jc proceeded to spend the next thirteen years torturing and killing demonic cultivators #and while that could just be jc wanting to stop any demonic cultivators from fucking things up #it's pretty clear by the way that jc reacts when wwx comes back that he's killing them all on the off chance that one of them is wwx #jc then proceeds to spend the rest of the novel actively antagonising wwx #from trying to kill him to trapping him in a room with fairy #jc doesn't once show any hint that he wants to get along with wwx again and that he's not a threat #until the truth comes out #and say what you want to about whether they should or shouldnt reconcile #but lwj isn't being unreasonably when he's being cautious about letting jc near wwx #so no lwj trying to keep jc away from wwx isn't him being a 'bad' character #it's him being protective over someone who has been repeatedly hurt time and time again by someone who just a few weeks ago would have #killed wwx on the spot #from jc's pov it's a lot more complicated than that bc that's his brother who he loved and then lost #and he was betrayed by wwx and lost so much bc of him (so to speak) #and he carries that rage with him for 13-16 years and then he finds out the truth #& learns that he never actually lost his brother #and he wants to make up to him #but lwj isn't going to know that!! #and if you want to write a good fic/draw some good art that is loyal to the characters and realistic #lwj isn't going to step aside unless jc proves that he's not going to hurt wwx #and that's the nuance that would be nice to see #reconciliation between jc and wwx is hard work and part of it is *proving* that things will be different if you have a second chance: #that wwx won't hide things from jc and that jc won't keep trying to hurt wwx #and that's even before you actually reconcile

[vrishchikawrites]

Ok so like

This is by no means an insult, attack or anything of the aort to you personally, i enjoy your content and opinions and i fully mean this respectfully....

But i find it so interesting that some people can hate a particular character and not read fics about them?

Like, from my first interaction w fandom in general, i could read any relationship/ plot/ ooc as long as it is well written. Even if i hate canon characters, i can usually read them in a positive light. Hell, i can read any JC fix as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect

And then i found tumblr discourse

Again, this isn't something I'm criticising, just an observation I'm curious abt, since detachment from the source material seems to be so scarce fandom wise

Ok, so - here's the thing. The problem isn't fans loving JC and writing him favorably. If that was an issue, many reasonable people in this fandom wouldn't be so miffed about it.

The problem is - we can't avoid them. You said it yourself, "as long as i know if it's positive or negative so i know what to expect"

We don't know what to expect.

Everyone wants to tailor their fandom experience. You mentioned you can read almost anything as long as it is well-written. That's a good thing because it opens up the entire fandom for you. But some people have specific tastes and triggers. They would want to look at the content they like and avoid what they don't like.

That isn't possible in this fandom.

I write canon characterization of JC. I am forced to tag is anti-jiang cheng. People write fanon characterization of JC. They don't tag it Jiang Cheng-friendly.

We get fics where JC is suicidal and people are gaslighting WWX - making him feel insecure - in the main Wangxian tag. And that is presented as ok for JC to do. They say it is suicidal JC, they don't mention that JC, Jiangs, and everyone is gaslighting the fuck out of WWX.

Then we have a perfectly good fic that we get invested in and find ourselves in a hole where WWX has crippling self-esteem issues, the Jiang family is abusive, but is brushed aside. There's no tag mentioning OOC WWX with self-esteem issues.

We have fics where Wangxian cheat on each other - with JC. And there's either one or more abusive partner involved. Partner abuse isn't tagged.

We have fics where all of WWX's morality is transferred onto JC. But JC isn't tagged as OOC.

THIS ISN'T TAGGED.

In fact, we have people using deceptive tags like angst with happy ending - Wangxian only for the happy ending to be for WWX to die at the hands of his abusive spouse. Again, no warning. The problem is so common and so many readers are blindsided by it that people have told me they clock out of the fandom because of it.

It isn't something as simple as an attachment to the source material. I am the last person to say fanon characterizations aren't allowed. I have been writing fanfiction for over two decades. Fanon characterization doesn't bother me at all.

There are fandom olds, good people, who will tag fics that are favorable to JC as JC-friendly and I don't think many of us have an issue with them. The problem starts when it becomes difficult to find a good fic where a canonical antagonist isn't allowed to walk all over the canonical protagonists. It is difficult to find a fic where everything that makes WWX so great in the canon is turned over until he only has surface characteristics of WWX but underneath that surface, he's someone we don't know.

Detaching yourself from the source material is one thing. But do you know many fics are out with WWX or LWJ having a bucketful of mischaracterizations? I have a near-crippling problem with depictions of severe self-esteem issues. I was drawn to WWX because, despite everything, he doesn't have severe self-esteem issues. So many fics include WWX with low self-esteem, severe self-deprecation without tagging? Because they consider it canon? I noticed that because I'm sensitive to it. But there are things I am not sensitive to, but other people want to avoid. Those things aren't tagged either.

It is frustrating for people who want to experience fandom, who want to be comfortable in fandom, but somehow have to deal with poor tagging, strange characterization, abuse justification, morality discussions, etc.

Fan content longer a favorable space for many fans. There are only so many fics you can clock out of before you start feeling completely disgusted by the situation.

So the response to all of that shit? Create a fandom vent space where people who do not like all of these things can come together, vent, and share their thoughts on. Venting in the story's comments section or in the author's space is bad form. A venting to people who have experienced similar things away from the creator's space? Fun and good form.

Also, added bonus, every time I see a meta, discussion, or answer an ask that forces me to think - my understanding of characters improves and I incorporate it into my fics.

to conclude - people can be detached from the original source material. But you bet people will rebel when someone tries to shove them in a particular direction. The more stans try to shove people in the direction of fanon characterization, the more people who like canon characterization will cling to it and defend it.

That's human nature.

All of this discourse? A response to being shoved and forced to bear fanon interpretations with complete disregard.

As people keep saying, the Chinese side of the fandom doesn't experience any of this shit.

Also, to clarify - I mean none spitefully or disrespectfully, despite my blunt language. This isn't a criticism of you or your ask, but of the state of this fandom.

#reader asks #long post #vent #re: jc #re: fanfic #re: fandom

[vermillioncrown]

I know you did ZYX in other sects, but what about being directly born into the main family? How do you rate that unpleasantness? Obviously being WRH's kid is dead last because you're both on Team Evil and the losing side, but which is LEAST bad?

(like always, gonna be a stream of consciousness thing so i'll probably contradict myself multiple times)

I'm not really into writing ppl directly into the main family bc it's too easy to destroy the dynamics that made those relationships interesting (note that interesting does not mean healthy). zyx will be too close to do things without close scrutiny, and even if she's close it might not help at all in the grand scheme of things.

-

least bad will be the lans. it's basically lan wenhui, except she lives in the same house instead of a few buildings down. lqr's blood pressure is a bit higher, but he'll live. the age order is lxc, and then lwj+lwh as twins (bc i cannot see mme lan wanting another kid in a shorter interim, and it's just... lwh as baby if she's born way after lwj)

lwh looks a lot like the twin jades compared to as a cousin. when they were younger, lwh would 'persuade' lwj to let her do twinswap shenanigans, esp when he wanted to hide away or see their mom. lwj is definitely less socially stunted, but recalcitrant by choice.

lxc has to do a lot more wrangling in this situation. lwj might act out due to stubbornness, and he now is better at arguing his case w lwh egging him on. lwh, now as a direct line lan, is an unstoppable proto-jingyi. you can never be sure what lesson she takes from punishment, what she actually thinks of the rules.

(lwj is more equipped to handle someone like wwx, even if the gay crush still blindsides him. wwx is like 'oh? a worthy adversary!' and keeps trying to one-up lwj)

-

second bad... is the nie. just imagine the original answer i gave is middle child nie yunxun. nmj isn't harsh on her since she's a daughter and not expected to be the spare heir, and she's still in a position of power such that she can operate as she pleases in the sect.

know lxc pretty well since she had to tag along w nmj whenever he visited the cloud recesses or lxc visited the unclean realm. back at it again with the daai-gaaze babysitting life - she was assigned to watch over nhs and lwj whenever their da-ge's were hanging out.

-

starting to get bad: yunmeng jiang. with the mme yu and jfm situation, i don't think they'll want to have another kid after jc as long as jc is the first son in their family. thus this incarnation of zyx needs to be older than jc. let's switch up. jiang rongkun (榮坤 - luxuriant/glorious; Earth/female), the oldest of the jiang sibs. mme yu wishes she was born male to be sect heir, or soft enough for mme jin to want to tie jzx to her (mme jin took one look at her sworn sister's daughter and knew that girl would eat her son alive). jfm wishes she was born sweeter (not like his vicious-tongued, sharp-eyed wife), his daughter perpetually seems unimpressed with him and everything.

jyl is as she is in canon, except less passive because can she learn any different with a mom like that, and now an older sister like that?jrk doesn't give up on jyl, long after mme yu dismisses her softness as weakness and lack of will to cultivate, and jfm lost interest as she can't take over the sect.

jc could have a bajillion complexes (last choice for his parents, only in his position because they needed an heir, pressures near insurmountable since he now has jrk as a measuring stick since birth instead of wwx since 9)

but jrk thinks she can be a better sibling this life. between her and jyl they are like a second set of parents for jc (and wwx), and the emotional burden isn't entirely on jyl. and as the eldest sister, jrk is not afraid to say "no, that's stupid. go think about it and come try again" "use your words, you cretin, not your fist" "if you don't like it, just be honest. at least, around your family"

no one believes the og yunmeng trio that their eldest sister is like this. her outside persona is a bit curt and direct, but no one can say she lacks the decorum of a well-bred young lady from the gentry sects.

-

penultimate bad - jin sect. i get the feeling that jgs didn't care much for mme jin, even in terms of sexual attraction (and probably mutual on mme jin's part). they fucked enough to get jzx, a legitimate heir, and then jgs started his tart train.

the only way for zyx to be in the direct family is also to be the unnecessary first-born daughter (and i'll recycle the name from before, jin zi'ai 金子藹 (zi as the generational character, ai for affable/luxuriant)). bc jgs is a pos and i think lanling jin would be a cesspool of propriety and hierarchy hiding absolute bullshit, jza basically has no power (compared to being mme yu's eldest daughter).

stuck acting as a free nanny to her younger brother. even if jza wants to humanize jzx, if the little brat cries a little to mommy and daddy she'll get punished (didn't fucking miss that shit from her first life). bad cousin jzxun is even worse. it takes creativity to get these two brats to listen to and respect her. she gets there. she's not proud of the person she has to be in lanling jin.

as (good) jzx grows up he gets less bratty. and with his older sister guiding him, he's less out-of-touch and socially stunted. but uh. as a result, he has strong opinions on women who aren't like jza (you think wwx and jc had jiejie-complexes? meet the new and improved jzx(s)). instead of jzx passively eating the knuckle sandwiches being fed to him, he fights back.

("why would i want some passive ghost of a woman for a wife? no strength, weak-willed -"

"shijie's much better than that cold viper you call a sister!")

she can't be super-involved in the sunshot campaign (she decides that jzx(s) need the reputation more than she does, so she tries to hold the fort at home and keep her younger brother aware of political developments). jgy eventually ends up in lanling, can't stop that.

idk if jza will drive jgy to commit murder faster, or will she be able to assimilate him into her camp of 'protect jin zixuan'. bc jgy is never becoming sect leader if she can help it (too much needs to happen and their implications BAD if jgy is to be accepted as lanling jin sect leader).

maybe she'll convince him to give up on their father after starting a quest to collect the jin bastards. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-

worst, wens: with wrh having two sons, it implies that he either wanted an heir and a spare, or he's getting mad concubine ass and we can have a little wen!zyx and all the wen kids are half-siblings, and we can recycle the 'wen ling' (溫玲, ling for exquisite) name. wen ruohan would prob have a lot of fun pitting his children against each other for his affection/acknowledgment, so there's no short of availability of resources to grow and cultivate for his kids.

wl will have to grow up between wx and wc. we don't know much about wx, and he doesn't seem like the caring brotherly type. probably bullies his younger siblings, except wl is an adult on the inside and 1) doesn't give a shit as long as you don't draw blood 2) if you draw blood she has over twenty years of experience in getting even.

she'll try to establish contact with the wen branch healers, feeling out dissenting wens, all that jazz. she has to play a very fine line - survive long enough for the sunshot campaign to be well underway, and be the one that kills her father to 'usurp' qishan wen before the sunshot coalition can take down nightless city.

something something nasty cold war w this new qishan wen and the rest of the cultivation realm. it's harder to fend off jgs's ambitions at this point due to the wen's standing and now a female sect leader.

#Anonymous #inquiry #zyx au's #mdzyx #lan wenhui #these take more time to write than i estimate #please appreciate it