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mycrofts-gunbrella · 3 years

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Caring is the Greatest Advantage- Mycroft Holmes x Reader (Part Five)

Word Count- 3921

Morning had come around a lot quicker than you had hoped it would, the sunlight peeking through the curtains and birds singing outside making drifting back off an impossible task. Though you felt well rested, you simply just didn't want to move anywhere any time soon. Last night had begun with Mycroft shyly placing his hand on your hip as your back pressed close to his chest, but this morning had ended with Mycroft on his back and you with your head resting between his chest and shoulder, hand crossing over with fingers hooked over the pyjama's pocket. You'd never expected to be the type to wake up earlier than Mycroft Holmes, particularly not two days on the bounce, but you wouldn't complain. He looked so peaceful as he slept, the sunlight turning his auburn hair far more ginger, his freckles on his nose matching. You slowly reached one arm backwards, blindly feeling around for your phone on the bedside table and reading through your messages. You grinned seeing a text from Greg and had to fight the small laugh that threatened to escape you.

'Hey, just thought I'd check in on you both and see how you're getting on. I hate to feel pushy but we do really need to start that paperwork, today ideally. Figured I'd pop round later if it's alright- I need a sodding nap first though. Spent the majority of last night receiving phone calls about mysterious activity around St James', load of dodgy cars sending people away, loads of papers.. don't suppose you saw any of that down your way did you, makes life easier?"

Your fingers typed a response- 'Uhh..guilty as charged.. Myc was in jeans and a Who top, daren't be seen by the public..I'll get him to fix it when he's up x'- a grin playing on your face. Yeah okay you felt a little bad, but Greg had dealt with worse. After pressing send, you scrolled further through your notifications, spotting one from John. Nothing major, just checking in and inviting you both over for late lunch, mentioning briefly how it'll do Sherlock some good seeing his brother, even if he doesn't believe it himself- evidently also receiving a message from Greg as he also explained how it would make Lestrade have to do one less visit for paperwork if you popped over a little earlier. Before you could type an answer, you felt Mycroft shift beneath you, stretching out the arm that wasn't trapped beneath your body.

"Morning Sleeping Beauty." You teased, turning your head and placing a small kiss on the Holmes' chin. Mycroft blinked, rubbing his eyes and offering you a 'good morning' in response as he eyed up you typing on your phone.

"Needed to be whisked away to catch a criminal mastermind already?" He asked, sitting up a little as you moved to give him a little more space, his arm still loosely tucked behind your back, though his torso now free.

"Your deductions in the morning are lacking.. though close. Mastermind, but not criminal. John and Sherlock have invited us to late lunch, Greg's popping over to start the first part of paperwork handling, only the basic stuff this time round, so figured it would make it easier on him only having to go to one home before we left." Mycroft breathed deeply, fingers raising to pinch the bridge of his nose.

"I think I'd have rathered the criminal." He spoke, already mentally planning the afternoon, the conversations he would likely have, the way Sherlock would behave. What if he still hadn't forgiven him? It was surprising enough that you had let him off so easily, but Sherlock was different. Sherlock was a Holmes, and someone of whom already had feudal tendencies with Mycroft, it was bound to end terribly. As though you had read his mind, you moved your hand to take his from his face as you noticed his fingertips whitening as he pinched harder.

"Hey, it'll be fine. He doesn't blame you, he's been far too silent for that to be the case. From the way John sounded, it actually seemed more like he was worried about you, though you know he'd never admit that." Mycroft hummed in response, not being able to find the right words to say before reaching over and grabbing his own mobile. "World ending yet?"

"Not yet. Though with any luck, quarrels could happen before lunch." He mused, one side of his mouth raising slightly in a playful smirk.

"Mycroft you can't wish for conflicts amongst empires to get out of a meal with your brother."

"Can't I?" He raised a brow.

"Anthea wouldn't allow it anyway. We're on strict instruction to not go into work for the next couple of weeks, nations be damned. Lunch sounds far more appealing too." You slid yourself out of bed and grabbed one of the bags from Anthea that you brought upstairs last night, taking a handful of clothing items and tucking them under your arm.

"But it isn't lunch, is it? It's LATE Lunch, settled approximately around 3pm, too late for lunch, too early for dinner. It's impractical by any means; you starve yourself at real lunch so you do not ruin your appetite, and then by dinner time you're hungry once again. And if you eat at both of those times as well as the late lunch, your feeding schedules become on par with a bloody Hobbit." You rolled your eyes and headed to the bathroom. "Though you may be more accustomed to such choices given the height similarity between yourself and Mr Brandybuck."

"Cheeky sod, not all of us have glorious Holmesian legs. I'm sure you'll survive a few hours.. Oh, you also owe Greg an apology." You chuckled, opening the message back up and tossing your phone in the general direction of Mycroft's lap before going to get dressed. After reading the message, you heard Mycroft let out a laugh from the other room, the rare kind that you knew made the sides of his eyes crease and his head tip back slightly in amusement; you were sorry you missed it.

Leaving the bathroom, you couldn't help but notice the silk pyjama clad man standing mindlessly in front of his open wardrobe, glancing over each individual item of clothing. Wandering behind him, you moved up on your tiptoes and peered over his shoulder at the rows of suits. You were still dressed relatively comfortably in a pair of skinny jeans and a t-shirt, which you felt was appropriate for the later meal that would likely be somewhere like Angelo's- but you equally knew that Mycroft's idea of 'comfort' lay within his three pieces, pocket squares and oxfords.

"Don't panic, I'm not going to begrudge you of your precious suits today. You deserve it after actually going through with my wardrobe choice for you.. I didn't actually expect you to do it." You laughed, squeezing his shoulder fondly. "We slept in late again, there's barely any morning left." You commented, glancing over at the clock that read 10:53am. "Can I tempt you in Elevenses, Mr Baggins?" You grinned, your Lord of the Rings reference not being missed by Mycroft. He cast you a playful glare, fighting the urge to childishly poke his two fingers up at you. "What? Not judging my bedside manner this time?"

"It is useless to meet revenge with revenge; it solves nothing." He quoted Frodo without hesitation, bastard probably already planned that you'd quip back with something smart and already armed himself with Shire related comebacks. You, in contrast to Mycroft, did have the tendencies to become childish and did opt for the two fingered response, an adoring smile unnaturally paired.

Not many people got to know of Mycroft's little nerdy side, and you took pride in being one of the few that did, though you took more pride in him for being able to easily reel off the quotes. Though he had told you before that The Lord of the Rings trilogy had been his favourite of everything you made him watch, then when he read the books? You wouldn't hear from him for hours at a time while he binge read through them for the tenth time round, and of course you had noticed the varying editions of the three books on his bookshelf in his personal office, rather than lining the shelves in his small library room. If anything, it just made him more endearing.

Though it was nothing compared with his love of Doctor Who. Bless his heart, you had taken him to watch David Tennant's Richard II a few years ago for his birthday and he was insistent on waiting behind after the performance to catch David leaving and got him to sign his special edition box set of his DW seasons. He even had a photo taken with him, his expression being easily comparable to the likes of a child who just got a puppy for Christmas- and, much to his dismay, the photograph had had a prime place on your desk at NSY since the event.

You made your way downstairs, calling out something about making omelettes and leaving Mycroft alone to get ready. His fingers skimmed across the expensive fabrics, tugging out an olive green suit and red tie and pocket square to match. The smell of the food you were preparing began to fill his nose, making his stomach growl as he rushed to the bathroom to get dressed. After removing his pyjama top, Mycroft caught a glance of himself in the mirror, prodding at the pudge of his stomach that settled just over his pyjama bottoms, before sucking in flat and looking again. Maybe he should forego the omelette and just wait until later.. another growl.. okay maybe just a little, just so he didn't raise suspicion. He sighed, stomach relaxing back to its natural state before finishing his morning routine, tugging his trousers up a little higher than usual to tuck away the offending belly fat.

Mycroft had always suffered with his weight, he knew that. He also knew of his past, how he would skip meals, or spend hours upon hours on his treadmill, or the time he was under Doctor Chinnery for just shy of three years following his habits of completing his meals with his fingers down the back of his throat over the toilet just after his job promotions exceeded and he found himself in much higher rankings- public appearance being far more important than any personal preference. Though his eating disorder had improved, the years of therapy didn't miraculously improve his self-confidence. It was one of the many reasons he preferred inviting others for dinners, or at the very least having his days to himself when he knew he would be going out later in the evening. Spontaneous meals out like the one he would be attending in a few hours, or having somebody at home with him while he waited for said meals threw him off balance completely- his usual routine of fasting beforehand as to not appear rude or raise suspicions when he ate in public being disturbed significantly. You knew of his past, deduced it, actually, and had been nothing but supportive, trying your best to convince him for years that he was perfectly healthy and encouraging him to eat better, to actually consume meals. He was thankful, of course he was, but it didn't help his insecurities around you, no matter how welcoming you had been or however many compliments you gave him. His body was covered in stretch marks and areas of loose skin from his weight loss over the years, his chest hair, though scarce, was a coppery ginger and his body was covered in so many freckles he looked like an explosion at a dot to dot factory. It led him to remember the other reason why he had never previously attempted to pursue a relationship with you; if he was disgusted and horrified at the appearance of his nude body then what on earth would you think when that time eventually came around? He daren't even try to imagine your face. You'd worked with Sherlock long enough to have seen him wander around naked and Mycroft had to admit that his brother at least had a body worth parading about in the nude, then there was Gregory who, despite not having an exactly chiseled body, still had the rugged good looks and toned chest- a physique that clearly represented the physical aspects of his occupation- there was no doubt you'd compare him to them and he would come up short every time.

"Myc? You gonna be long? Yours is going to be freezing!" Your voice had knocked him out of his thoughts and he quickly shrugged on the rest of his clothes, straightening his tie in the mirror and plastering on a small smile as he headed downstairs and into the kitchen.

"Apologies.. the cufflinks failed in succession to cooperate at first." You had eyed him suspiciously, knowing that Mycroft had worn enough suits in his lifetime that he could probably find a way to put one on to completion in 5 minutes in the dark with oven mitts on.

"I know I've been so against the suits, but I have to admit that you look incredible.. I think that one's my new favourite." You commented casually, placing a quick kiss to his temple as he sat at the table. "That colour is lovely." He quirked a brow.

"New favourite? You've had old ones?"

"Obviously." Imitating Sherlock. "Charcoal pinstripe with that light blue shirt- brings your eyes out wonderfully... and your bum." You winked, positively enjoying the pink that dusted the man's cheeks, and the way he would open his mouth to speak and then close it before any words came out. In his defence, he was really not used to receiving such compliments. And in your defence, you weren't particularly used to giving them, not like that anyway. You'd blame Greg, he was a terrible influence and an incredible flirt- using his charm to at the very least try and make you laugh when you had shitty days.

You lay his plate in front of him, a coffee to its side, before beginning to tuck into your own meal. You had learned early on that if you didn't wait until Mycroft was able to eat then he likely wouldn't eat at all. While drinking his coffee fairly happily, you hadn't missed that the vast majority of Mycroft's breakfast was still on the plate, cut in smaller pieces and rearranged to appear as though he had eaten more than he truly had. Frowning, you didn't press- knowing better than to point out his behaviour and just being thankful he had eaten anything at all (about a third of the omelette and half a slice of toast if your judgements were correct) but had elected to keep an eye on him. You finished your own food in silence before crossing the cutlery over on your plate and beginning to speak.

"I figured if we left now we could have a bit of time for you to go through the first set of paperwork, Greg should be getting there in the next 10 minutes or so, and then by the time we finish and have a cup of tea it'll be time to go out." You suggested, taking Mycroft's plate to clear away after he had sent a nod to show he was finished. He made a small groan at the need to go at all, but soon acquiesced, sent a text for a car and stood to go to the front door. Tugging on a hoodie, you opened the door and took a step back, the wind shooting in your face and making you scowl. Mycroft made an amused sound and offered you the scarf of his that you had worn last night. Rather than taking the garment, you stood and waited for him to wrap it the same expert way that he had the night before. "I also text Greg to run by my flat and grab my coat so I'll be able to stop stealing your expensive scarves soon.. though this one feels so lovely I may text him again to leave it on the tube." You laughed, stepping back outside once again and walking with Mycroft to the end of the road where a car was waiting. Mycroft had wanted to respond, to make a comment about how he didn't mind letting you wear his things, how he actually quite liked it. But he stayed silent, offering a small smile instead and a soft hand at the small of your back. Mycroft opened the door for you, climbing in after and settling against the plush seats of the lavish car.

As the car began to move you tensed a little, a thought popping into your head.

"Myc.. does Sherlock know yet? About us? I might have hinted at it a little when I spoke to Lestrade earlier but I didn't press.. I just.. I didn't know if you were telling people." You asked awkwardly. Christ it made it sound like you were in some forbidden relationship. Mycroft's jaw clenched a little.

"I wasn't aware it was secret knowledge, if that's what you are asking Y/N. In response to your question, no. I haven't spoken to Sherlock at all since.." He trailed. "And I am not the sort of man to walk into a room and actively announce that kind of thing. But you should know that he will likely deduce it the moment we walk through the door being as you are wearing my clothing, your hair smells like my shampoo and your skin still has traces of the scent of my soap. So if you didn't want anybody to know, then I strongly suggest we rearrange our plans for this afternoon." Who was he kidding? Of course you didn't want people to know that you were actually together now- you would look ridiculous being such a pretty young woman with a man like Mycroft in tow. You opened your mouth to speak but he cut you off. "If you are going to say you could argue the soaps then it would simply be futile, he knows I have your regular brand at your disposal; he'd know you used mine in the form of... sentiment." The last word felt wrong on his tongue now, knowing you had hoped to keep your.. relationship.. behind closed doors. Mycroft Holmes was a very private man, but he'd be lying if he said he didn't want knowledge of your relationship to be at least semi-public, having felt a little giddy when you'd chosen to cross that line with him.

"What? No, I wasn't going to talk about the sodding shampoo." You grinned, reaching a hand over to place on his knee. "Jesus Myc, I asked because I didn't know if YOU were comfortable with people knowing. I'm pretty sure everyone inside that flat knew I fancied you the last few years, I'd proudly walk in and show that my pining eventually paid off. I just know you have appearances to keep up and I didn't want to ruin that, or embarrass you in front of Sherlock." For what seemed like the millionth time in the last few days, your words surprised Mycroft. He felt his jaw loosen and he took a breath, moving only to briefly place his hand over yours for a small squeeze and moving back again. You didn't expect him to say much, he was Mycroft Holmes, not Romeo Montague, but the small smile you sent back his way let him know that you understood his thoughts. The drive to Baker Street was only 10 or so minutes from Mycroft's home so you soon arrived in no time at all, the slick black car smoothly pulling up outside number 221.

"I can only hope my dear brother deduces our relationship correctly and doesn't make a vast attempt to embarrass me in front of his peers.. again." Mycroft knocked on the door, his words casting you back to a Christmas you had all shared a couple years ago.

It was a small gathering, consisting of the pair of you, the Baker Street boys, Greg and Mrs Hudson, and a few weeks beforehand, after multiple arguments of whether or not presents should be shared, Mrs Hudson had come up with the wonderful (terrible) idea of secret Santa which, incase you wasn't aware, isn't a fun game when played with two Holmes' that knew everybody's present and Secret Santa before the packages were opened. You had pulled Mrs Hudson and couldn't have been more thrilled, neither could she when she opened her new tea set- a simple floral design decorated its sides, but she was thankful no matter the pattern, the last teapot having been found at the hands of Sherlock housing human eyes. Conveniently enough, Mycroft had pulled your name and elected to subtly buy you a personalised travel mug for work. After you had opened it, Sherlock had scoffed, muttering something along the lines of "Mycroft isn't that shit at buying presents. He bought you a necklace at first but felt too embarrassed to give it to you in such a public setting and panic bought that cup." Continuing on about how Mycroft had put a lot of thought into your original gift and how it was unusual and how it "obviously" meant he favoured you and was attracted to you. Mycroft had left shortly after that, not making eye contact with any of the silent people in the room and climbed into the back of his car, but you had followed suit and clambered in after him- easing the tension by ignoring Sherlock's allegations and giving him the envelope that you had in your pocket. You had told him you had bought him something special anyway, even though he wasn't who you were supposed to buy for, because you cared for and appreciated him- he had opened the envelope slowly and his eyes widened, that rare smile appearing on his face when he was presented with the Richard II tickets. After your exchange Mycroft had given you the necklace anyway, spouting derogatives about his brother's deductions as he did so. It was a small silver chain necklace with a sparkling silver pendant that, upon closer inspection, you had noticed was a police badge.

You smiled fondly at the memory and instinctively placed your hand above your sternum, feeling the small piece of metal beneath your clothing that you hadn't taken off in two years. You turned to face the man beside you a little more, placing a hand on his shoulder and reaching up on your tiptoes to place a lingering kiss on his lips, moving back only when you heard the latch unlock in front of you, and noticing the ever so slight pink tinge to Mycroft's bottom lip from the lip balm you had put on earlier. "That should make it easier to get it right." You commented, fighting the small grin from your face as you noticed Mycroft standing in the same way, lips parted slightly from where your own had been moments ago, a matching pink dusting his cheekbones. The door opened revealing a smug looking Sherlock.

"Be careful Mycroft, you'll catch flies like that if you aren't cautious enough."

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benevadeca · 2 years

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thonking about zelenin and jimenez :( i do enjoy their very negative character arcs in that it's like. them being so insecure about very specific things that lead them to their paths of choice that are interesting

zelenin being insecure about her role on the mission bc she feels she's useless and an outsider to the crew, and has been confronted by her powerlessness seeing people around her suffer and die at the hands of demons. so ofc she's kind of easy prey for mastema, who right from his first appearance intentionally comes to her only in times of insecurity as this kind of gracious savior.

and her becoming an angel is all about becoming something like what he has shown himself to be for her, she wants to be that for other people (so yeah kind of white saviory but i mean. white women realism truly)

offering the purpose and power and respect (of her 'choice' in the matter of becoming an angel or not, paying special mention to the consequence and irreversability of it, which itself she feeds off of because she appreciates being respected enough to be told the weight of it and having it still for all appearances put in her hands 'despite' all that)

and ofc it's in this choice that she ends up completely neglecting her original purposes and responsibility towards her crewmates and their mission, for her Higher Calling(TM). i mean the act of becoming an angel is itself shown as an act whereby you trade your free will to become a servant to Law. so like, congrats in your search for community and independence you became an indoctrinated pawn. big F. i do think it's interesting how she's shown as like...still human enough though? Especially in the redux I do actually like the law route in that one if only because it shows that she can maintain enough humanity inside of her to rebel.

sort of fits with how even though angels have the whole superiority over humans thing, when humans become angels through the act of choice they can becoming higher tier angels than regular ones? Like either the metatron route of becoming God's lapdog or the zelenin redux route of rebelling for a slightly more nuanced law (tho like. thinking that the route of all conflict is uhh. competitiveness or smth? "violence" as a very non nuanced term. is completely ridiculous and very much the kind of thing some white lady would come up w/ lol)

as for jimenez, my thoughts on him are more scattered just bc I think chaos as an ideological concept in smt as far as i'm aware from the 2 games i've played is like. more scattered and all over the place than how Law is defined. just because it is by it's intended nature supposed to be this non/loosely hierarchical anarchist system that in strange journey specifically just kinda reads as eco fascist and more generally just kinda reads as eugenics (in a different way than Law. like if chaos is social darwinist eugenics then Law is more of an ethnostate kind of fascism. libertarian eugenics maybe)

but yeah anyway just. the most prominent thing w/ him being his fear of death, and chaos ideologically being a very "fear of death is stupid #YOLO" kind of club. specifically thinking of one of the crew lines after you kill him in at least neutral where it's mentioned he was kind of the crewmate most attached to life itself, and whether he understood the full implications of advocating his "live and die by the blade" thing. like many things to say regarding the contrast between both him and zelenin being outsiders towards the main crew and how jimenez specifically sort of self-imposes that, and specifically for him the racialized toxic masculinity machismo element towards his character that i do wonder how intentional that was on the writer's part.

but also the compassion he was shown to be capable of towards bugaboo, which i would argue bordered on paternalistic because of how willing he was to become so disaffected towards his fellow humans while only being willing to open up to bugaboo who, for all intents of how he was written, is barely a character and thus treated narratively as almost a pet honestly. like...yeah no tbh i think it all comes down to the fact that bugaboo is barely a character and more just entirely a plot device.

like on one hand bugaboo being a tool to show that jimenez is capable of compassion and does crave companionship only he's too jaded to ask that of his fellows, that he'd seek it in demons specifically bc of how divorced they are from humans (and follow smt logic demons being both more honest/clear in their intentions and more two-faced and capiricous in their foes and affections, as reflections of humanity) is like. like damn! it's interesting! but bc we don't get the same back-and-forth between bugaboo and jimenez that we do zelenin and mastema it just kinda falls flat.

that him becoming a demon was a choice made under pressure instead of aware and consentual is interesting tho. like, his was a choice made by necessity bc he's never been given the same luxury of choice as that zelenin (implicitly reflecting her status as a respected educated scientist from assumptively a mid-to-high socio-economic background).

and that his decision was implied to be kind of a mix between wanting to save bugaboo and his desire for strength and a general desperation-born willingness to abandon his fears, his responsibilities, and more or less completely dissociate himself with all claims to his past identity for this vacuous ideal of freedom he's chasing. like hm!! hm!!! it's very interesting i think jimenez is a very complex guy

BUT yeah at the end of the day i know they kind of exist less as characters with agency and more archetypes to illustrate abstract ideological constructs, and thus there are parts of both of their characterizations where i'm like WHY (i know it is bc it is a DS game from like 2013 that didn't have the specs to create a more immersion and complexity and so made these decisions through pre-charted planning for its narrative structure)

So!! Yeah Jimenez and zelenin are both interesting and for all their apparent differences and differing ways they go abt things they are very similar at their cores of being this odd mix of compassionate, cold-hearted, kind of entitled but deeply lonely people who secretly long for recognition and just. A place to belong. So yeah tldr this is a needlessly long way to say omg narrative parallels <3

#mine #smt #strange journey #me making too many stupid long rambling unreviewed posts all at once <3 emotion #anyway i sure wish commander gore made any sense. he sure was my favorite up until he came back for 3 minutes and i was like #THAT'S IT?? all the buildup and for what

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ruby-whistler · 3 years

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The "redemption questionnaire" - the survey results.

Hello! Welcome back to the results of this survey, which is now closed - I really didn’t expect this amount of interest and am thankful for the ability to collect this much data on the subject.

Now, the reason I made this survey in the first place was this post crossing my dash. It talks about people wanting to see characters or people who they dislike suffer, even if healing is completely possible or even the better option - it’s about people denying that there is such a thing as bad people “deserving” things that we humans need to function, such as being loved.

This post talks about fictional characters, but despite that fact, it made me lose my faith in humanity just a bit. I am a pretty cynical person, but I also consider myself quite empathetic to existing and fictional people alike.

So, I got curious, and wondered - in the Dream SMP fandom specifically, is there a way to get input as to what people actually think about the issue of redemption?

[ tw for brief mentions of torture and abuse ]

So, the goal of the survey was get information to answer certain questions;

Do people think that some characters shouldn’t be redeemed or are irredeemable because of their actions, however don’t hold this true for others?

Are there people, who despite disliking certain characters, still believe that they deserve healing?

Would people want characters to suffer or even die for their actions rather than heal and be happy?

Do people think certain characters in the story don’t deserve to be happy?

Now, I did get some responses that were asking to include or exclude certain characters from the main three (Quackity, Dream and Wilbur - all names are talking about the characters only), however there was a very specific reason I chose these people.

Quackity and Dream have both done actions that have similar weight, while Wilbur serves as an outlier; someone who hurt people in more indirect, but still impactful ways. All three of them have been hurt - Wilbur mostly by Eret’s betrayal, Quackity by Schlatt and others, and Dream by Sam and Quackity. All three have contributed to a toxic and harmful environment, which in turn hurt them back even more and drove them deeper into becoming destructive.

Such a comparison between them would test the fandom’s ability to separate their feelings from in-story morality, as well as bring double standards to light.

Let’s see the demographic part of the survey first, as to see what we are working with;

Of the 390 people partaking in the survey, 44.9% like the direction the Dream SMP plot is heading at the moment, 3% do not and 52.1% are not sure.

Of the characters whose redemption arcs are most anticipated, 71% of participants are expecting a BadBoyHalo or Eggpire redemption arc, Niki/Jack and Wilbur coming close in second and third with 59.2% and 51.8% respectively. As for the main trio of this survey, Quackity lands with 28.2%, Dream with 43.3% and Wilbur with 51.8% of participants thinking a redemption arc for them is likely in the near future.

I would like to express right now that the characters included in the “possible redemption” section do not in any way, shape or form reflect on what I personally think about the characters. I don’t think certain characters need a redemption arc, however I left in the option in order to let people pick it if they wish to do so.

As for the healing arc question, quite understandably, Tommy and Tubbo are the characters most expected to get a healing arc in the upcoming storylines, sitting at 76.2% of participants. Niki and/or Jack come in second with 62.1%, and Quackity, Wilbur and Dream land at 25.4%, 45.9% and 42.8% respectively.

For the aforementioned questions, 3.6% or participants thought none of the Dream SMP characters would get a redemption arc, and 5.4% thought none of them would heal - and with the track record the story has so far, I honestly cannot blame them.

Now we move more towards the main trio;

48.7% of participants have positive feelings towards Quackity’s character, and 23.1% have negative ones. The majority of the participants (66.2%) think that his actions are intentional and hurtful, but interestingly enough, only 25.4% say they find them inexcusable and awful.

For c!Dream, 51.5% feel positively towards him and 35.7% do negatively. Luckily, 53.8% find his actions inexcusable and awful, while 40.3% find them intentional and hurtful.

c!Wilbur breaks the trend with 58.7% of people feeling positively towards the character and only 17.2% feeling negatively, however such a discrepancy can be expected when we compare his actions (found 65.1% of the time to be intentional and hurtful).

I want to preface this next section by saying that I have nothing against people who find redemption arcs unappealing, or wouldn’t find them narratively appealing in the specific story. These answers will be counted as merely neutral ground in the upcoming questions; you are completely valid if you think certain character arcs would not fit the themes or style of storytelling, or if you want bad people to stay bad for the sake of conflict.

However, 79.5% of people find well-done redemption and healing very appealing within the story, and 19% like it for certain stories and characters, so this shouldn’t impact the results on a large scale.

1. Do people think that some characters shouldn’t be redeemed or are irredeemable because of their actions, however don’t hold this true for others?

People’s reasoning for not wanting characters to heal varies, however the contrast between c!Quackity and c!Dream in this scenario is very intriguing.

Despite the two having done comparably disgusting things, one with more and one with less selfish reasons but neither excusable, both classifying under abuse, the people who think c!Dream shouldn’t get a redemption arc (9.7%) because of his actions greatly overshadow the people who think c!Quackity doesn’t deserve a redemption arc (1%) because of his actions. Hell, even c!Wilbur’s percentage is higher, sitting at 2.1%.

This is extremely surprising considering the demographic - and seems to hint at the fact that people who think positively of c!Dream are far more likely to think that c!Q and c!Wil deserve redemption and healing (despite the common argument that both have hurt him greatly) than it is the other way around.

Even sending a bad message is a lot higher with c!Dream (30.5%), despite the fact that c!Quackity’s actions and him as a character could be similarly triggering, and he himself sits at 2.6% of participants. Of course, this question could be partially taken as what he went through in prison making him better, which would definitely be a bad message to send, but considering the percentage (42.1%) of people who don’t want Dream to be redeemed, that’s still insanely high.

Overall, people from a very balanced demographic of people who are positive and negative towards the three characters, only 52.6% want Dream redeemed as opposed to the 83.8% with Quackity and 86.7% with Wilbur - and the reasons given seem to be largely based on bias and double standard, or even hypocritical in context.

For the fandom, this question’s answer seems to be yes, although from the people who are c!Dream positive, this sort of thinking seems to be of a much lesser extent and amount towards characters they dislike.

2. Are there people, who despite disliking certain characters, still believe that they deserve healing?

Let’s look at some of the comments given to this answer;

“On the one hand I do want Dream to recognize that his actions have hurt people, but I really don’t want torture to have ‘made him better’ or for the people he hurt to have to forgive him.”

“as much as I hate c!quackity and dislike c!wilbur, I believe that evil is not something you are, its what you do and as such I think every person deserves to heal and grow.”

“Quackity is the closest - he's spiraled far, but we got to see some of what he could be as a more moral man. Dream's arc would be....incredibly difficult to pull off, and while everyone deserves a chance to change, not everyone who does is ever owed forgiveness. And Wilbur....I dont know what would make him want to get better, but I want him to.”

“I wouldn’t like some of these characters to get redeemed(c!Quackity), but I know everyone deserves a chance at redemption because no one is mentally stable and not traumatized.”

“bastard men. on a serious note ive noticed a lot of evil in dsmp come from the perpetuation of the cycle of revenge and punitive punishment and i think excluding someone from them would. just not be a good message. and yeah c!dreams motives and methods being seen in separate characters is just proof of this - nothing that made any of these men villains are unique to them, and they are all shit-infested holes other characters can fall in.”

“i think every character on the smp has done horrible things and is morally grey, but i think everyone deserves the chance and the ability to heal and try to be better.”

“listen, i love big q, and i know he doesn't mean it, Wilbur also deserves better (far from tommy tho, they're not good for each other rn) and dream can go f**k himself, the only "healing " Arc that would ever make sense is if he escapes the prison and f**ks off to the middle of nowhere (wich is unlikely)”

“Even if I don't like some of the characters they deserve a chance at healing and moving on”

“Controversial opinion but Wilbur has been pretty shady from the start, so a redemption/healing arc just wouldn't make sense to me. He antagonized Dream to sell drugs.”

“i would like to qualify all my answers towards redemption as that they are /all/ allowed to get better, just not necessarily near those they've hurt. those they've hurt are under no obligation to forgive them or be involved in that.”

“REDEMPTION IS POG F**K IT EVERYONE GETS REDEEMED THE ONLY BIG BAD THAT EXISTS IS SYSTEMIC”

“Clarifying about my wilbur answers. A character can only get a redemption if he wants to change. Wilbur doesn’t want to change. I still think he deserves to heal but not to be redeemed. Those are two very seperate things”

“PLEASE JUST LET THEM GET HELP. ALL OF THEM.”

“i'm at sort of an impasse with c!quackity & c!wilbur. i don't like c!quackity in the slightest. i think he has great potential for a redemption arc, but i probably wouldn't be interested in watching it. on the other hand, with c!wilbur, i actually would watch his redemption arc, but i don't see it happening any time soon.”

“I answered " he deserves to heal and get better despite the actions he's commited; everyone deserves to heal and get better " for c!Wilbur but I partially Disagree with the "Everyone deserves to heal and get better" part. simply because some characters are irredeamable eg : c!dream”

“If c!Wilbur gets a redemption arc (I hope he does) I really hope it comes with learning that ethnostates and nationalism are not poggers. I'd be worried about the message it would send if he didn't learn that & it only focused on interpersonal stuff instead.”

“maybe a bit weird that i want c!dream to have a redemption arc but not c!q or c!wilbur, but hear me out. c!dream is being tortured in pandoras vault and we all know (no matter what the c!dream antis say) no one deserves torture. we have something to sympathize with with c!dream. with c!q and c!wilbur, i cant think of anything to sympathize with …. im not trying to say that c!dream is better than them, or that he didnt do bad things, but i sympathize with him much more than i do with c!q and c!wilbur because q and wilbur caused their own problems while a lot of dreams problems come from other people”

“We have both seen Wilbur and Quackity be relatively good people, or at the very least morally Gray people who had genuine love and care to those close to them. While with Dream we have never seen that, as he has always been focused on chaos, fun, and power.”

“I just want everyone to be happy and get along. C!Wilbur to get his problems fixed. C!Quackity to be happy and not have to worry about being the next c!Schlatt. C!Dream to finally tell us his side of the story and potentially join the syndicate?”

“Redemption isnt something any one can say is deserved or not”

“For me the main difference is thay wilbur and quackity (although having done bad things) did them out of grief or bc they felt like it was the only thing they could do for a sense of security (both after they lost something important to them). Dream on the other hand went out of his way and hurt others maliciously when he DIDNT have to or there were other less horrible/long-lasting actions he could done”

“The message that some people dont deserve to learn and grow from their past mistakes is harmful”

“listen.. i really hate c!quackity and c!wilbur right now so.. erm..in emotionally, i don't want them to have redemption arc because i hate them..BUT by using my brain i know that is a stupid excuse, everyone deserve redemption so..yeah sorry if it confusing you but honestly..the reason i hate them so much is probably because of the arc they on so..give them time and i think i will say i welcome their redemption arc with an open arm”

“i answered twice for dream because i have mixed feelings, while i think he is an atrocious person, i believe personally that forgoing forgiveness from others, he deserves to be happy and healthy and heal. hes clearly got issues of his own, and while it doesnt excuse his actions he also deserves the basic right to heal”

“I personally regard redemption as the act of simply becoming a better person, seperate from whether or not they are accepted or forgiven by their victims. With that definition, I think there is no being "deserving" of a redemption arc, it's something that everyone is entitled to if they chose to. Therefore, everyone, and I mean everyone, in as something as morally gray as the Dream SMP is capable of becoming a better person. It doesn't mean they get rewarded or forgiven for it, it just means they are capable of change and are able to fulfil character potential beyond being a villain.”

It seems to me like there definitely are a lot of people in each side of the spectrum, so this test seems to have come back positive; however, there are more questions that we have yet to answer.

3. Would people want characters to suffer or even die for their actions rather than heal and be happy?

Here is probably a good place to mention this questionnaire was more of a psychological experiment than a survey. Most of the answers were specifically designed and in such an order that would get your mind thinking about certain things before shoving your psyche into a difficult question.

Well, here comes the moment of truth; what sort of redemption arc do people prefer? Would they rather the character get better and reap the “rewards” (which are actually simply things every human being needs and deserves; love and happiness), atone for their actions but not get to be happy, or would they like them to suffer or be punished instead? Do people really treat basic human needs as “rewards” for being a good person; or are they only reserved for characters that were never bad people in the first place? Remember; all of these characters have inarguably gone through pain during their life. Just how much do people enjoy punitive justice, and should I literally just stick to my corner of the fandom for my own good?

The answer probably won’t surprise you!

Starting off, 82.8% want a happy or neutral ending for Quackity, 59.4% of which think he should experience good things in the end. 54.4% of participants want a happy or neutral ending for Dream, 62.7% of which think it should lead to him being happy and loved. 89.2% of people want a happy or neutral ending for Wilbur, 49.4% of which lean towards happiness over closure.

17.2% of participants would prefer Quackity to experience pain as part of his redemption arc. 8.5% want him to be mentally tormented by the weight of his own actions, and 5.6% think he should be punished before being allowed to get better.

For Dream, these percentages are way higher- and here is the funny thing, I thought that pretty much no one would say he should suffer before healing, because he’s already suffering for his actions indirectly by being abused by people who hate him for them. However, 7.2% of people think he has yet to be punished enough for his crimes in order to deserve being redeemed. 21.5% want him to suffer under the weight of his own actions, and 6.9% would want him to die instead of getting a happy ending. Overall, 45.6% would prefer a redemption arc for Dream in which he is subjected to pain or punishment.

10.8% of participants would want Wilbur to have a more difficult character arc, with the percentages pretty evenly divided between the options.

4. Do people think certain characters in the story don’t deserve to be happy?

“Deserving” basic human needs, or not deserving them for being bad people/being bad people in the past, is something I don’t personally agree with, however this is tumblr, not thought police, so let’s just look at the survey results.

While 68.5% of participants believe all of the characters in the story deserve to be loved and happy, only 66.2% think Wilbur does, 61.5% think Quackity does, and 38.5% think Dream does.

Let’s look at some closing thoughts on the subject as a closing note;

“I want everyone to have a sort of personal redemption. Where they realize they have hurt people. But I think it’s difficult. I mean Dream abused a child. Quackity tortured Dream relentlessly. I think the redemption arc that is the easiest is one for Wilbur because of cc!wilburs acting and emphasis on his characters mental health. But I think Wilburs also done so much f**ked up shit too. I think it’s difficult. I just think the redemption arcs are really really difficult.”

“i genuinely can't help myself, i want everyone to have the chance to be better.”

“i think that wilbur, quackity and sam should be redeemed because we as an audience know that they all believe they're doing the right thing and regret/didn't enjoy hurting people with their actions. but with c!dream, there's a lot more evidence that he knew what he was doing wrong and actively enjoyed doing it.”

“everybody deserves to heal. if someone wants to be better and strives to be better, who is anyone to deprive them of that?”

“I don’t like some of these characters and their actions, but everyone deserves a chance to heal. To work through their trauma.”

“dream doesn’t deserve shit, quackitys probably gonna keep riding the las nevadas train until it crashes and burns and wilbur should move on from being “the villain” and stop seeing everything as black and white”

“No one is beyond deserving help. That's not how the world works and that's not what the story should show in my opinion.”

“narratively, i want redemption and happy endings for all characters but morally, i really despise some of them and i'm also really conflicted about some of them as well”

“I want my faves to be better and I think it's the best possible option for everyone involved, even the characters they've hurt.”

“c!wilbur and c!quackity go to therapy. c!dream get hit by another train /hj”

“Hurt people hurt people. If given a chance to distance yourself from your victims and abusers, if given a safe environment with a support network of people you haven't formerly harmed, you can then heal and let the others heal. Live and let live, but living is harder for everyone when we don't give others the chances they need to grow and change themselves.”

“all of them deserve to find growth and happiness but under no circumstances are those who have been hurt by them obligated to be involved in any aspect of that arc. most obvious example- c!dream is allowed to grow and realize that what he's done is awful, but c!tommy is not obligated to forgive him or even be near him.”

“They can all improve and get better and be better people …. They all deserve a chance to be better and be happy. However. Wilbur and dream should get their "redemption" arcs away from esp. Tommy and all the other people they hurt. Big Q. should get his redemption arc away from Dream and stuff. If the prison was less focused on detainment and more focused on rehabilitation and then Dream had no contact with Tommy for example that's a scenario that I'd like.”

“is quackity actually considered a villain in this story? What has he done wrong lol Create a casino? be emotionally manipulated? have rejection sensitive dysphoria? I don't think he's a good person based on his current actions but i don't think hes a villain. I think he's trying hard to become something hes not. … I hate c!dream and I don't think he can ever get better. hes a manipulator gaslight gatekeep girlboss and i think he deserves to stay in prison and rot. watching the tommy exile arc would make me so angry that i had to stop watching.”

“i'm so CONFLICTED about this! i want the angst, but god the angst has been going on for a LONG time. honestly, i think the conclusion i would be happiest with would be for c!dream, c!quackity, c!sam, c!tommy, and c!wilbur to calm down, get some therapy, and stay VERY FAR AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. god damn, it's like they WANT to get more traumatized,,”

“the loathing i feel directed at c!dream specifically is so goddamn strong. my god i hate that guy. uhhh regarding quackity no i dont feel like he shouldnt feel ANY pain or anything hes done some f**ked up stuff but i mean..? with the exception of the torture hes the most redeemable guy up there for me which is probably because we have seen his entire downward spiral.”

“I have to admit that although I strongly believe no one on the Dream SMP deserves to be tormented and deprived of their healing and happiness, I feel really icky about c!Quackity. I really hope that the ccs find a way to make his redemption logical and satisfying to watch. If that is not the case, I will still welcome it with open arms, but secretly I will be a little bit salty about it.”

“For the last question bit there i wanted to check more then once because i want them all to feel guilty and tormented for what they have done.”

“Yknow.... basic human rights... to be happy and loved isn't something that should be deserved it should be something that everyone is allowed to obtain for themselves and it shouldn't be allowed it should just be…”

“While i think that all of the characters should the chance to get redemption and healing, I’d probably be less likely to watch redemption arcs from c!Quackity and c!Wilbur than c!Dream, just because I dislike them. Not to say that they shouldn’t get them, because I hope they do, I’m just more like to be going “Good for them” in the distance.”

“I JUST WANT THEM ALL TO BE HAPPY PLEASEEEEEEEE -dr3”

“for the final question it doesnt provide a none of the above option or a some of the characters but not all option. since I dont think c!Dream deserves to be happy and loved but I do the other two (to some degree) but answering "all of the characters .. " I feel Includes c!dream who I ultimately just really hate and want to have nothing but a fictional death!”

“therapy. therapy for everyone.”

“f**k c!dream <3 i honestly don’t think people who abuse kids (or anyone) for fun should ever be redeemed i think they should just rot in a hole somewhere”

“It would be hypocritical to say that one character deserves redemption more than another, especially considering they've all done (almost equally) horrible things. Either everyone deserves redemption, or no one does.”

Conclusion: in the end, this is all the ways in which we like to enjoy fiction. However, for some completely unrelated reason, I am now about 45.6% less likely to attempt to interact with anyone outside my immediate group of friends in the fandom.

Thank you for reading!

#dream smp #dsmp fandom critical #tw abuse ment #tw torture ment

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isdisorigionalenoughforyou · 4 years

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Super sexy aa7 ideas that will never happen

*puts on my clown shoes

Themes: “the worst times are when lawyers have to smile their brightest, but you can’t be a lawyer 24/7” “sometimes (esp now) the system is WRONG”

CASE 1

Klavier Gavin prosecutes, because society has progressed beyond needing Paynes

And if the widespread complaint is that he’s too nice, this position is perfect

Make a witty remark abt feeling demoted >:(

Athena and Trucy dream team girls

Murder took place at a theater/has something to do with acoustics, to ~fit the characters~

Maybe Lamiroir was there 👀

Phoenix is once again a witness, but hes less infuriating. But still fucking funny infuriating

He mentions his college degree, vaguely. Pressing him reveals nothing.

Also address that TRUCY AND KLAVIER PROBABLY HAVE SOME TRAUMA FROM MURDERS AT THEIR PERFORMANCES

Defend a rando

The twist: the murder only could’ve been committed by someone with superhuman hearing, so Athena’s senses are vital here!!

End: the culprit tries to psychologically fuck with everyone, but Athena stays strong, maybe uses some noise cancelling headphones, and corners the SHIT out of them

Also, there’s a new judge. A higher judge than your normal judge, who is a boomer. BOOMER JUDGE

Post-trial: a comment about all them missing Apollo…

CASE 2

Athena vs Franziska von Karma

Athena calls her out on the whipping if that’s still a thing

[Maybe Trucy is there again for extra spice,,,] but Solo Thena would be EPIC

NEW FRANZISKA DESIGN

Maybe we can bring Maya back here, but NOT ACCUSE HER FOR MURDER

Or accuse her at the scene but quickly disprove it

Idk also address her trauma

Wow this is turning into ATHENA CYKES- ACE THERAPIST

Put Simon there too because he’s hilarious

Maybe him and Maya are casually attending Comic-Con for the Steel Samurai panel

Defendant: some toxic celebrity with DRAMA

the twist: the murderer was targeting several high-profile ppl, but only killed like. A janitor instead. They aren’t found OR arrested, but you get a not guilty by… indicting their accomplice. And it HURTS but you have to or its your not-guilty kinda-a-dick client that gets guilty

New judge plays by the written rules, so u can’t ague ur case

Franziska is skeptical of the Accomplice’s guilt, but she lets the verdict go because your client is innocent.

Athena cries to Phoenix about how she feels like she fricked up b/c she empathizes with the accomplice but also everyone, Phoenix does his best dad comfort—this is the truth that’s allowed in the confines of their court system.

CASE 3

NARUMITSU DATE

Open with a call from Maya. She loudly thanks the god/the holy mother for this

MURDER!!! AT THE VENUE

Kay and Sebastian are there

GUMSHOEEEEE (OLDER SPRITE??? Higher salary?? Maggey too?)

Classic Wright vs Edgeworth

All the options are flirty

Everything is an innuendo

Trucy co-council is embarrassed by ur Old Man Flirting (NEW SPRITES)

Lampshade conflict of interest what with dating opposing council. Gloss over it completely

Phoenix’s college degree is vaguely mentioned to be helping him. This is Not elaborated on

The murder is some crazy shit that basically parodies the whole series

TWO SETS OF EVIL TWINS

3 cross poisonings and with INTERESTING results of chemicals mixing (Ema: 👀)

All the dying messages were faked

Handedness contradiction.

Some gross old guy appears, but you can punch him

The murder weapon goes from bloody knife with defendants fingerprints on it to glass shards of a broken bottle to an icicle to an overly spikey piece of hair

EXTRATERRITORIAL RIGHTS

For extra funnies: BOOMER JUDGE IS NOT USED TO THIS. They are the straight person of this comedy clown case.

For extra feels (the twist): Phoenix actually has an emotional breakdown on one of the investigation days. Maybe Trucy gets put at risk again, or something with poisoning, or even something with Kay or Seb (to show how much Phoenix cares, in general) and we address all the shit that he’s gone thru

Awkward comforting by miles

HUG SPRITE/ART

CASE 4

(shoves Klavier into Khura’in) GO FAKEGERMANBOY GO

Play as Apollo (khura’inese clothes sprites)

KLAVIER CO-COUNCIL (CASUAL SPRITES?? Put his hair up in a bun capcom im begging)

ADRESS AA4

Maybe at the end of one investigation, theres just. A heartfelt talk.

Ok ill make it heavy (b/c if its lighthearted these fuckos will never talk about their feelings)

LAMIROIR IS HERE TOO??

TRUCY ALSO- im sorry truce im shoving you everywhere because I want you to develop

maybe she and Klavier are like, performer bros

Apollo is happy that Trucy is but also feels alienated, like AA6 totally pulled him from his AA4 roots [COUGH]

CASUAL TRUCY SPRITE??? I would cry capcom

Nahyuta, Rayfa, and Apollo being awkward but trying (and mostly succeeding) siblings, Amara being a scary but p good queen momther

FRANZISKA INTERNATIONAL PROSECUTING??? Idk it’d be epic tho

She roasts Klavier so bad

Though he is very smart so she just roasts his terrible German

Resolve the Gramarye siblings here?

Include something with gender dysphoria to contrast how they butchered Robin Newman???

This is huge headcanon territory here tho

The Twist: realizing that this case cannot POSSIBLY be resolved in 3 fucking days. Also that Apollo is so backlogged that hes stressed and he probably needs help

Also someone tries to frame Klavier with his Gavinners-brand shoeprints

End: answer yes/no to Klavier working at Justice Law Offices. The choice affects his dialogue with Apollo in 7-5

CASE 5

Some fuckin. International level scandal

Elaborate on whatever the fuck “the phantom” was spying for? btw is the same that the culprits froms 7-2 and 7-4. maaybe 7-1?

And it involves MORE AUDITORIUMS

Open w/ calling Trucy, whos in the states. She mentions that Klavier casually got a Japanifornian defense attorney badge. Cue exasperation/fondness/incredulity (I promise this is relevant)

In Khura’in

Starts small- like a robbery, which leads to an attempt on Thalassa’s life. Again

Athena gets to therapy her

Then someone high-profile actually fucking dies

Athena (co-council Apollo) vs FINAL BOSS FRANZISKA

Lots of investigating with them

Talk about space center and grief

The twist: a person with low emotional output is framed, but they are innocent because LOWER EMOTIONAL REACTIONS DOESN’T MAKE YOU FUCKING EVIL

The other twist: Bring in 7-2 framed person for a character witness, show that they’re innocent. Athena is panicking because of Fear(?) so Apollo is determined to Do Something, and points out how this only happened because the system is Stupid and calls Klavier and Trucy

BECAUSE:

At the same time, there’s a stateside investigation. some botched, continued interreference at the Space Station

Klavier can pull an Edgeworth and investigate with Trucy

With parently narumitsu

Klavier talks about Apollo a lot, Trucy calls him out on it

Nahyuta is prosecuting this case

Depending on the relations between Klavier and Nahyuta established in 7-4, this will be hilarious or disastrous

Protective Yuty route: makes scathing comments about petty parts of Klavier- a petty-off

Teasing Yuty route: brings it up whenever Klavier talks about Apollo. Rlly funny banter. Klavier showing more human emotions sprites!!

Revisit the Space Center and get emo. Simon is here, arguing with Nahyuta

Because the cases go to trial simultaneously, the comment about the wrong conviction in 7-2 can be brought to the Japanifornian courts by Klavier and Trucy

They argue that Athena was forced to do that to spare an innocent and press HARD for legal reform

They call in Chief Prosecutor Edgeworth for reforms??

They also start a twitter war (that can be investigation minigame) and get public opinion up abt it

Yuty vouches for change, w/ khura’in as evidence

SO AA4 CAN GET KINDA RESOLVED!!

DUNK ON BOOMER JUDGE

BONUS: CASE 6: TURNABOUT CHILLOUT

Phoenix vs Franziska

Larry time

Scruffy time

Idk man. No more international stuff, just good old fashioned cleaning up ur shitty dad’s messes amiright

Resolve things with the Shelly card?

oldbag cameo but you file a restraining order

help trucy and pearls with college

TLDR: Athena actually tracks an international conspiracy that has weight, the AJ gang once again changes the system, Phoenix gets emotional resolution, Franziska helps international stuff AND gets emotional resolution, and i finally stop trying to throw hands with capcom.

#ace attorney #aa7 #athena cykes #franziska von karma #narumitsu #now that ive got my cheeseball tags out of the way!#*cries*#trucy wright #phoenix wright #miles edgeworth #klavier gavin #apollo justice #klapollo #kinda #and miles is in this even LESS than nick but i dont want phoenix tag to get lonely #oops accidental aj2 kinda

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alizrak · 3 years

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Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy (Book II: Greater Good) REVIEW

Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy (Book II: Greater Good) is the latest book by Timothy Zahn that takes us deep into a complex web of intrigue, family politics and manipulation happening in the background of the Chiss Ascendancy after the events of Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy (Book I: Chaos Rising).

Publisher's summary:

Thrawn and his allies race to save the Chiss Ascendancy from an unseen enemy in the second book in the epic Star Wars: The Ascendancy Trilogy from bestselling author Timothy Zahn.

Thrawn's latest triumph still rests newly on his shoulders. Despite leading the Chiss to victory and bringing glory to the House of Mitth, the true threat to the Ascendancy has not yet been extinguished. Their foes do not send threats or ultimatums, or mass ships on the edge of the Chaos. Their weapons come cloaked in smiles and generosity—gifts offered freely, services granted unconditionally.

Across the Ascendancy, seemingly inconsequential events could herald the doom of the Chiss. As Thrawn and the Expansionary Defense Fleet rally to uncover the enemy plot, they discover a chilling truth. Rather than invade Chiss capitals or pillage resources, this mysterious enemy strikes at the very foundation of the Ascendancy by widening the rifts between the Nine Ruling Families and Forty Great Houses below. As rivalry and suspicion sow discord among allies, each warrior must decide what matters most: the security of their family, or the survival of the Ascendancy itself.

Spoiler Review after the cut

To start with, I must confess this might be my least favorite Thrawn book so far. Thrawn feels absent for most of the story, only being present for a few character interactions and battles. If someone said he's in 1/5 of it I would say that's actually quite generous. Additionally, all the Memories chapters that added so much to understanding Thrawn’s motives and personality in the last book, are instead focused on the enemies to give some context on the situation on their side of the plot.

There are a few gems of character development for Thrawn, and a reaffirmation of his personal convictions and morality, as well as a couple of mentions that Thrass is dead and the Outbound Flight incident with the Vagaari happened... but all of that it's overshadowed by the sheer amount of new characters and factions, and their plotlines taking up most of the story. We are talking about a dozen new characters with specific roles, which makes the book HEAVY on family intrigue, politics and mind games that have little to do directly with Thrawn until the last few chapters where he conveniently discovers the enemy's plot against the Ascendancy merely by coincidence.

There is such a thing as too much worldbuilding if you don't make it matter to your main character... and the problem here is that you can't say Thrawn is the main character of this book. The one who comes out on top at the end? Yes, definitely, as is always expected, but the weight of the story is instead carried by Thalias, Lakinda, a Chiss farmer and Haplif, the enemy alien.

Just like last time, Thalias brings the empathetic side to the table, worrying about the moral and ethical implications of Thrawn’s actions. Lakinda is a refreshing addition to the cast, struggling between duty to her family and duty to the CEDF. Lakphro the Chiss farmer is perhaps our first real look at the Chiss “commoner” that has to deal with being at the whims of the higher ranked members of his family, and while I found it interesting, his characterization reads too much like an Americanized space farmer. Haplif is the driving force behind the conflict, setting up a web of lies that plays on the politicians’ wants and desires to manipulate the Chiss families into an all out Civil War.

I am sure there will be people who will enjoy this level of intrigue, but in stark contrast with Chaos Rising, where we got to see how Chiss society affects/relates directly to Thrawn and the people around him, this was the opposite. I didn't feel as invested into the plot for that same reason... which made it more difficult to enjoy given the elaborate manipulation going on for half the book.

When you read Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy (Book II: Greater Good), temper your expectation of this being a “Thrawn book” and take it more like an introduction to the backstage machinations within the Ascendancy. The book will certainly add a new layer of information to anyone wanting to write about the Chiss society in the fandom and sets up a much more interesting situation for the next installment, as they tease the existence of a secret history of the Mitth and a new weapon at the very last page. Not ideal for my taste but certainly welcomed, especially as we know Thrawn Ascendancy: Lesser Evil will come out this year so the wait will be short.

I would have to give it a 3/5.

#Star Wars #Thrawn #Thrawn Ascendancy #Greater Good #Chiss #Chiss Ascendancy

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adinosaurnamedmittens · 3 years

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Alright so I can’t stop thinking of RVB Zero and how much potential it has so I wanna rework it a bit to work better.

So first I’m gonna talk about the new characters and what I’d change before breaking down the individual episodes for critique and suggested rewrites. At this point, I’ve only seen up to episode 4, Encounter. So spoilers till that ep.

West - Honestly great! He doesn’t have a ton of character, but what he has is solid. He works very well as the gruff, no-nonsense leader who’s a tiny bit of a dad.

Raymond - Also great! He’s the most classic RVB character, as he’s an underdog who’s not the best at fighting, but has a lot of heart. My fav new character, right next to Tiny.

One - I want to change her to 2nd in command and drop the whole “can’t work within a team” thing. Keep the confidence and slight rudeness, but drop all the lines referencing anti-teamwork. It hasn’t factored into the story so far, One has been successfully working as part of the team for all the episodes. This would make her dynamic with Axel more interesting, being in a higher position of power. Especially considering how her healthy relationship with her dad contrasts with East and West’s relationship. This would reinforce the tension with East, since One now has an actual position of power over her. Also, she should have the exact same powers as Zero, but maybe less powerful. This would help foreshadow that reveal, and help us understand how the enhancements work. While One is a bit of a shit, and thinks she knows best, she’s willing to take the fall when her ideas fail or get them in trouble.

Axel - Imma be honest: totally forgot he was One’s adopted dad until I rewatched the episodes prepping for this. You could drop it totally, as it gets a bit redundant with West and East’s relationship, but I think there’s more fun in working with it. Also, if One’s 2nd in command and Axel isn’t insecure about it at all? Instantly makes him a more likable guy. I also think he parallels to Wash very well (bit of a kid at heart, weapons guy, team dad, emotional heart) so we’re gonna expand on that too.

East - Her and One’s relationship is the driving force of conflict within the strike team. With the changes made to One, East can stay pretty much unchanged. Before they were too similar. Now, with One being abrasive but willing to work together, and East being more reserved and distant, they’re great foils for each other. Also she parallels early Carolina, which I love (speed is her ability, prefers working alone, competitive as hell, dad runs team)

Villains: On characterization, they’re all good! Villains are allowed to be a bit more shallow, and they all seem to have understandable motives for what they’re doing: Zero wants revenge and power, Phase wants revenge especially against West, and Diesel just seems like he’s having fun. I do want to change Zero’s power tho, with Phase already having a teleport with a cool gimmick, and Diesel having a strength/tank ability, Zero should have a unique ability. Maybe gravity because of the sword? It would allow him some cool movement tricks while still being visually distinct from Diesel and Phase’s abilities. Or something inspired by his “ghost” line from Duo.

EP 1: Viper

The Good: The introduction to the villains and their abilities was amazing. I love Phase’s knife and it’s honestly one of the coolest things I’ve seen in the show. And the intro to the Strike team? Hilarious. Great character work. You can tell that One and Axel are close, that Raymond is hesitant and new, East and One have a very competitive relationship, and West is the tough love dad.

The Bad: Don’t violate the 180 camera rule. The intro fight scene was cool, but the camera moved way too much and made it hard to keep track of everything happening. And with the new, shiny art style we need a bit more time to absorb what’s happening since the detail level went up. Also y’all healed Wash’s brain damage with a throwaway line, and then immediately fridged him? Not cool. I mean, if you wanted to show how tough the villains are, you already had them beat up Carolina.

Story Changes: - Zero gets name dropped this ep so we get a scene next ep where Axel recognizes his name. - Either replace Wash with a high ranking soldier and completely scrub him from the episode, or give a different reason why he can’t help, maybe exactly Carolina’s reason of “you’re recovering”. I’m not committing to totally removing Wash bc in Recovery Carolina’s line of “That I-that we thought was a medium risk asset” hints that Wash knew exactly what they were carrying and I’m excited to see where they take that. - Mainly I want scenes of Wash talking to Axel and expanding on his characterization as they are both Nice Boys Who Have Been Through It. - I also think a scene after we meet Strike where Axel asks Raymond “You like riding with East?” and Ray goes “You two stuck me with her on purpose!” and One goes “Yup!” all cheerfully. Just reinforce those team dynamics and friendships before it goes to shit!

EP 2: Recovery

The Good: The garage scene was perfect. Tiny is amazing, love her so much! And Axel got such great characterization during this ep. What a dork. West and Raymond also work super well together, their interactions are great.

The Bad:You know it’s a problem when the villains have a better dynamic than the heroes. The scene where Carolina explains all the strike member’s abilities and personalities? Bad. Also a little OOC for her. And redundant, since we also get Raymond asking West about East, and Axel’s explanation of the girls to Carolina.

Story Changes: - Have Axel, the emotional heart, waiting outside the recovery room for Carolina. Honestly, this isn’t that big, but I think it’d suit his character. - Carolina’s exposition is changed to solely history and abilities, no commenting on their personalities. Maybe East gets a little “has shown difficulty in working with others” but that’s it. The physical acting for these scenes really shines through, so let it stand alone. Even watching without sound, you can pick up that West is a no-nonsense leader, that Axel isn’t a flashy fighter but gets the job done, that East is fairly young and doesn’t take fighting seriously, and that One is willing to leave others behind if she thinks she can do it better. - For Carolina’s convo with One this ep about her “not willing to work on a team” either swap One with East or change it to “you need to listen to your team more. Don’t assume that you immediately now what’s best” - At the end of training, when Axel says “the guards were priority #1″ One should say “I knew you could handle it.” and Axel could respond with “Well, it’d be nice if you let me know that.” to show that One can work well as 2nd in command, but needs to communicate and stop assuming things. -Also should change Axel’s warning line about her enhancements to “Don’t push yourself. Remember what happened last time?” to enforce that this is a habit, and that while he cares about her, he’s not trying to boss her around as much. -Don’t reveal that East is West’s daughter until Raymond and West talk. That way, there’s a bit more emotional weight, and Ray’s line of “I was digging through the team files” makes more sense if Carolina doesn’t drop that info in the previous scene. - When Axel talks about the experiments East went through, he should mention that he was there for some of them. Dropping more foreshadowing for the Axel/Zero reveal! - Carolina drops Zero’s name in their convo, and we get a shot of Axel’s hand tightening on his weapon, showing the audience that the name means something to him, but we don’t know why.

EP 3: Duo

The Good: First 3rd of the ep? Really good. I love One being rude to Carolina, and then gaining a grudging respect. West and Raymond are, again, the best dynamic. How? I honestly have no idea. The car looks so stupid in the funniest way, I hate it but I love it. Also god yes Axel and Zero’s relationship is so wholesome and could be the best thing in this season. One’s warning call to the facility? The funniest shit. And Zero’s dialogue is hella cliched, but it works bc he’s obv such a dramatic bitch.

The Bad: HOLY HELL THE DIALOGUE. First, One and East’s fight? garbage. Very forced. Super hard to believe these two are real people. Carolina and West literally repeat the exact same line, less than 5 seconds apart. The dishwasher joke West makes does NOT at all work, it’s too tonally dissonant.

Story Changes: - Obv. need to change One and East’s convo. End it with “Without your power, you wouldn’t even be on this team!” East should storm off or almost attack One, requiring Axel to diffuse. - It’d also be really nice to get a line where One acknowledges that she went too far with that, but puts off apologizing to East. It’d be a nod that she’s good at reflecting and assessing, but too proud to actually take her words back. - I’d like to make Raymond more panicked when they find Wash. It’d help sell that he’s in bad shape and add more weight to “He’s got a heartbeat!” - Maybe re-work Phase and Zero’s conversation a bit. The dialogue is definitely not this season’s strong suit. - Pull Carolina’s “I’m just trying to help, East.” since it’s more impactful for East to storm off immediately and West says the line a couple seconds later. And change East’s dialogue to “You may be my CO, but don’t try to be my dad. Not after what you’ve done.” Or something similar. - For the dishwasher gag in the meeting, either pull it or double down. It’d work so much better if someone asks “Are you serious about this? Aren’t there more important things to discuss?” and West just deadpans. “This is of the upmost importance. If we can’t keep this base clean, how can we be expected to do anything else?!” and then Carolina clears her throat super loud and West goes “...Right. Rookie? Take it from here.” - Rework the “Carolina stay behind” dialogue. Even just a “Carolina. You’re still recovering. If you get hurt again, it’ll just be longer till you can take these bastards down. Keep an eye on Wash, will you?” I just couldn’t get behind the wording of “we need you here. With wash” It sounds like every cliched “woman must stay behind while the manly men save everyone!” Might be personal preference but just ew. - Add a scene where One notices Axel being a bit off (bc he’s worried about Zero being a part of the bad guy team) and she asks if he’s okay. He brushes her off, says its nothing. She goes “alright, i trust you.” - Maybe make the flashback a bit more apparent? There was a moment in the middle where I questioned whether or not it was a flashback. Again, could be a me problem.

EP 4: Encounter

The Good: The fight scenes continue to be absolute standouts. The varied environments, the movement, the dynamics on point. Wish we could’ve saw a bit more from Axel, but as is the scene worked well. The framing of the ep was good too, cutting between the mission and the fallout. And Ray, resident coward, immediately squaring up without a thought after West got injured? *chef’s kiss*. THAT is good character development. THAT is an amazing way to establish their relationship without telling us outright. Go feral, my boy! And Tiny and Raymond’s convo was so cute. I love how, despite what he says, Ray is there for his team and always willing to help. Carolina and One’s convo was also pretty decent. It got a bit long and over-explainy on Carolina’s end, but there were some pretty good moments.

The Bad: The fight after the mission failure was SO over-acted. Too much motion, to many camera angles. It changed what should have been tense arguments to hilarious melodrama. This has been a consistent problem, but it REALLY affects this scene in particular. And the second Axel enters the scene it just immediately goes downhill.

Story Changes: - Add a line from West in the beginning scene like “I’ll cut them off!” to explain why he isn’t in the car too. This also means it’s not as out-of-nowhere when West shows up to trash the car. - One should call out Axel instead of East. If she’s his daughter, she should be able to tell when he’s acting off. And she would have an easier time connecting the dots between Axel and Zero. - Instead of “I trusted you.” One should say “You lied to me.” 1) He’s her dad. One lie isn’t gonna break her total trust. 2) This would imply it’s the first time he’s lied to her, adding more weight to the whole situation 3) It’s way more accusatory and less cliched (if only a bit) - Add in a “One, wait!” bc I am a sucker for it and we could hear the guilt in his voice, rather than the weird scene where the girls make him spin around by bumping into him. - It’d also be nice if Ray stayed back for a bit before leaving, so we got a bit of his feelings on the matter. I mean, obviously he cares a lot about West, but does he blame Axel for not being there to help? It’d be nice to know!

TL;DR The best parts of the episodes are the fight scenes, and when they focus on the fun team dynamics. The worst parts are dialogue (mostly the serious bits) and over-animating, as this takes away from the drama.

I don’t mind the cheesy villains, but that may not be the case for everyone.

The best part of RVB has always been the rag-tag found family dynamics. While the fight scenes are cool, they have always been supplemental to the real meat of the show. The writers are trying something new with the whole “actual family” but you have got to focus on and develop these relationships if you want fans to care.

Mostly, I see a lot of potential in these characters, but there are GLARING issues in this season that are holding them back.

#rvb #rvb zero #rvb zero spoilers #rant #long post #criticism #might add on to this when new eps release bc i am invested #though not entirely for the right reasons #i just see the POTENTIAL #and i physically cannot hold myself back

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eggfucker-1 · 3 years

Text

Ai yah, I really have to respond to this post again, huh?

Well, for starters, I apologize for a mistake I made in my original post. In the OP, I insinuated that the Princess Zeldas we see in the series could have possibly had a role in the atrocities committed by the royal family. This is incorrect, and it was poor wording on my part. I should have clarified my intentions when writing that particular passage; however, I felt it was unimportant, given that the point wasn’t solely about Princess Zelda, but how the addition of the Goddess Hylia and the Demon King Demise not only invalidates Ganondorf’s character up to that point, but adds much greater weight to the terrible actions committed by the royal family, especially towards the Sheikah.

Given that tumblr user lorelylantana is the third person to make a reply by discussing the reincarnation cycle, rather than the actual point of my post, perhaps I should have proofread and double checked my post before sending it out into the world to cause problems on purpose.

With that said, after I read lorelylantana’s response, I felt it necessary to make a proper reply of my own. It’s going to be a rather lengthy reply, as I have many things to say and many images to post.

However, I’m going to do all that I can to avoid discussing fanon or fan theories. I don’t mind them, but adding fanon wasn’t the point of my original post, and it shouldn’t have been the focus of the responses I received. I want to stay as close to the canon Nintendo laid out as possible. Thusly, my sources will strictly be drawn from the games, game manuals, Creating a Champion, Hyrule Historia, and Hyrule Encyclopedia. Despite the latter two being dubiously canon, they were approved by Nintendo, so they’re worth mentioning.

So, without further delay, let us begin.

- “The original post seems to be based on the idea that Zelda and the royal family of Hyrule are synonymous, which is questionable for reasons I’ll get into later.”

For all intents and purposes, yes. Zelda and the royal family are synonymous, as she is the face of the royal family in almost every Zelda game featuring her. Even if she isn’t the ruler of Hyrule in that particular moment, she is our figurehead for the monarchy, by all means.

- “The games don’t hand wave the actions of Hyrule’s royal family, they just don’t go out of their way to hold a young girl personally responsible for the actions of kings […]”

While the actions of the royal family are briefly acknowledged, as is the case with the Shadow Temple and the Arbiter’s Grounds, the monarchy has never had to answer for their actions. Even in the case of the Sheikah’s massive exile 10,000 years ago, the royal family never answers for this, nor are they ever portrayed being in the wrong. In fact, the event in question is only mentioned by a single member of the Sheikah in Breath of the Wild, Cado.

Image credit goes to YouTube user Macintyre.

The royal family’s actions are never directly described as “these were horrible things that happened.” Instead, it’s simply, “yeah, it happened.” There is no acknowledgement that the Yiga was created by the royal family’s own hands, nor is there any emphasis placed on the impact any of these acts have.

For example, the exile of the Sheikah wasn’t even the first instance of the royal family of Hyrule mass-exiling a group of people and displacing them from their original homes.

After the events of Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf is captured and executed for his crimes leading up to the events of the game and presumably the events of the Adult Timeline, given Young Link’s testimony. (I’ll get into why the King of Hyrule believes Link over Zelda later.) After Ganondorf was executed, the Gerudo were forced out of Gerudo Valley and banished from the Haunted Wasteland. Even during the events of Twilight Princess, the Gerudo Desert is completely abandoned. Once again, there is no discussion concerning the royal family’s actions, with the narrative instead being that the Gerudo, some of whom were actively against Ganondorf’s actions and many of whom were hypnotized during the events of OoT, are entirely at fault and have to atone for their sin of… having Ganondorf for a leader, I suppose.

Source: Creating a Champion, p. 405

Source: Hyrule Encyclopedia, p. 46

The royal family gets to punish an entire people for the actions of one man. Rather than the act being portrayed as negative or even discussed, it’s hardly even mentioned.

While I’m aware Encyclopedia’s canonicity is dubious at best, its material was still approved for publication by Nintendo. Thusly, I feel it worthy to discuss.

To summate, the royal family did bad things, and very select few acknowledge it.

Next point.

- “I think that the Zelda/Hylia = good Ganon = bad situation serves a narrative purpose that justifies the black and white nature of the games because it highlights the shades of gray in between installments…”

The Legend of Zelda is almost thirty-five years old. This series should have long evolved beyond the black-and-white-morality narrative, especially when the side we’re supposed to sympathize with literally used the Sheikah to commit war crimes. You don’t have to have stark white and pitch black in order to see shades of gray.

- “… And trying to assign Zelda a dark side is kind of missing the point, especially when no one seems to question Link’s morality even though he’s constantly stealing people’s stuff.”

Examples of Consequences to Link Stealing People’s Stuff

1. In Twilight Princess, stealing from Trill will result in the bird branding you a thief and pecking you every time you come near him, which will only cease when you finally pay up.

2. In Link’s Awakening, stealing from the old man’s shop will result in instant death the next time you enter his shop. If you steal, your name is changed to THIEF for the rest of the game.

Furthermore, Link is controlled by the player; thusly, his actions have no consequence to the story or Link’s character. Zelda, on the other hand, is an active participant in the story, whose actions and whose family’s actions weigh heavily on the games. That’s not to say Zelda is ever evil. However, as much as she is a victim of her own family’s history, she still has just as much power to change it.

- “If the games wanted to gloss over the sins committed by the royal family[,] they wouldn’t have designed entire dungeons around them.”

I reiterate: the sins of the royal family were mentioned once, and then immediately dropped shortly thereafter. It’s not there for you to dwell upon, merely window dressing as if to say, “Yeah, that happened.”

- “I believe The Legend of Zelda series is a critique of the Divine Right of Kings”

Until the events of Skyward Sword, the Hylian Royal Family wasn’t a divine lineage. A thirty-five-year-old series can’t be a critique of a concept that it barely even acknowledges. The only emphasis placed on the “goddess blood” part of the royal family is in Breath of the Wild, in relation to Zelda having to unlock her sealing powers. Despite the massive repercussions the revelation of the royal family’s lineage tying back to divinity should have, it’s barely even mentioned,let alone discussed.

As a side note, the divine right of kings specifically denotes that the monarch is chosen by God to rule. In contrast, the Hylian Royal Family continues to rule by, presumably, claiming lineage to the Goddess Hylia, which is closer to traditional practice in feudal Japan.

- “If the Divine Right of Queens is indeed present, does that justify a hereditary monarchy? As far as the Legend of Zelda is concerned[,] the answer is no.”

The Legend of Zelda series never questions the validity of the royal family’s rule.

- “Isn’t it funny that the Kingdom of Hyrule seems to be perpetually stuck in the dark ages?”

Ocarina of Time has neon lights, jukeboxes, and canned goods. The lakeside doctor’s chemistry is advanced enough that he is able to synthesize eyedrops. Given the newspaper articles strewn about shops, Hyrule also has pictoboxes in OoT.

By Wind Waker, pictoboxes have evolved to print in color. In Phantom Hourglass, Linebeck’s ship is steam-powered.

In Twilight Princess, pictoboxes now print higher quality images. In addition, with the introduction of Malo Mart’s Castle Town branch, TP is confirmed to have fully functional electrical lighting in some places. Cannons are so safe, you can get launched out of one for fun. Pyrotechnics have grown advanced enough that explosives can function underwater, and Death Mountain has become a functioning, refined mining facility stable enough for Hylians to safely walk in. Also, Auru has a bazooka.

SPIRIT TRACKS HAS TRAINS. THEIR AESTHETIC DIRECTLY REFLECTS THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION.

Hyrule is hardly stuck in the dark ages. It’s high fantasy.

Next point.

“For starters, I want to establish that I don’t agree with the assumption that what the Hyrulean Royal Family does = Zelda/Hylia would do. I don’t think it’s a mistake that almost every text in the OP explicitly mentions that it was a King that committed those acts, not Zelda herself.”

Once again, that was an error on my part. It wasn’t my intention to imply Zelda had any part in such actions. However, Zelda learns how to rule from her father, or her mother, or whomever holds the throne in that particular moment. These acts are never questioned in canon beyond “Yeah, that happened,” and the most conflict we have is the issues between Zelda and her father in Breath of the Wild boiling down to how to confront the Calamity—science vs. sealing magic— rather than anything else.

It’s a personal issue, and Rhoam treats Zelda terribly, essentially alienating himself from his own daughter and treating her as little more than a pawn. I agree that it’s absolutely terrible. However, that’s merely a personal issue. She’s complicit in how Rhoam addresses the Sheikah, possibly even fully aware of the anti-aging rune Purah was developing to force retired soldiers into battle against the Calamity, and from what we’ve seen in Age of Calamity, she doesn’t have an understanding of the Yiga Clan other than the snide remark Urbosa gives:

Image credit goes to YouTube user BeardBear.

It’s up to Zelda to develop a deeper understanding of her country’s history; not to take personal responsibility, but to understand where those who are suffering are coming from.

That said, acting with the Hylians’ best interests at heart is exactly something Hylia would do.

In the prologue to Skyward Sword, the Demon King and his army attack the Hylians, slaying many and throwing the world into despair. Thus, the Goddess Hylia saves the Hylians by sending a chunk of land up into the heavens, sparing them from the war to follow while she gathers every other race to fight alongside her.

So… How come Hylia only saved the Hylians?

I understand many were wiped out by demons, but if Hylia was fully prepared to spare people from violence, why not also send small numbers of every other race? Why only save the Hylians, her chosen people, while essentially dragging everyone else into battle with her? Furthermore, when Hylia’s immortal body suffered grave injuries, she opted to take advantage of this by choosing to be reborn as a person. Not only is it explicitly stated that Hylia reincarnated in order to utilize the Triforce’s power, as she could not do so as divinity, but she knowingly chose to be reborn as someone who would become close with her chosen hero, in order to influence him to follow her plan without hesitation.

Hylia used Link.

That much is certain, and it’s laid out clearly by Zelda shortly before she takes Hyrule’s longest beauty nap.

It must be noted that while Zelda states she is Hylia reborn, and has regained Hylia’s memories by this point, she still sees herself as a separate entity from Hylia. While she herself is immensely guilty and apologizing over and over for what she’d done in her previous life, we have no way of knowing if Hylia herself would react the same way.

In fact, according to a fan-translation by ZeldaUniverse user Yamikawa, Demise goes as far as to describe Hylia as “brave and so-prideful,” hinting that even a being who loved her chosen people so much to save them still saw them as beneath her, if being reborn as human is seen as such a drastic extreme contradictory to her supposed character. Now, this is merely reflection on the inner workings of the Demon King, so his word can’t be taken as gospel. But, like all things, I find it interesting.

From what I can gather, however, Hylia certainly cared more about the Hylians than any other being in the land of Hylia, not dissimilarly to the royal family.

- “I also don’t think that every princess Zelda is a Princess of Destiny or Representative of Hylia, I think that she reincarnates just about as often as Link and Ganon(dorf) do, because the logistics don’t really work out otherwise. This leaves hundreds, if not thousands of years where Zelda/Hylia isn’t on the throne.”

This is merely speculation. Moving on.

- “There’s a notable trend of the King of Hyrule getting in the way of Zelda’s attempts to save the kingdom. First[,] he doesn’t take Zelda seriously [in] Ocarina of Time, forcing her to rely on Link […] I don’t know why the King of Hyrule was willing to listen to a random boy claiming to have been from the future over his own daughter but whatever I guess.”

The King of Hyrule believed Young Link because he came back to the Child Timeline with the Triforce of Courage. Up to that point, the whole Triforce was supposed to be safely locked away in the Sacred Realm, which was supposed to be completely inaccessible without the spiritual stones and the ocarina of time, neither of which Link had. I’d listen to the kid’s story too if he came back with a God Dorito on the back of his hand.

- “And then again in Breath of the Wild when Rhoam bans Zelda from ancient tech research despite the fact that he has absolutely no reason to believe his pray the incompetence away method is the right one.”

The tapestry showcasing the events from 10,000 years ago depicts a princess possessing the blood of the goddess using her sealing magic in order to seal away Calamity Ganon. Link can swing the Master Sword at Ganon or whack him with ancient arrows or light arrows all he wants. Without the ability to seal away the darkness, as shown at the end of Ocarina of Time, all of this preparation and planning would have been for naught. That is why Rhoam is so harsh on Zelda. That’s why so much emphasis is placed on unlocking her power. Without it, defeating Ganon would be impossible.

On that note, Rhoam also had no idea what he was doing. Zelda’s mother was the one with the sealing magic, not him. She was supposed to be the one to train Zelda, but she passed away before she got the chance to even start. He puts so much emphasis on prayer rather than ancient technology because he genuinely doesn’t know what else to do.

I can’t believe this post forced me to defend Rhoam of all people I’m gonna have a stroke—

- “Also, this is purely speculation, but [I’m] pretty sure there’s an implication that King Daphnes Nohansen caused the flooding of Hyrule in Wind Waker […] This sounds like a wish on the Triforce that backfired[,] but I digress.”

Daphnes couldn’t have made a wish on the Triforce before Wind Waker because, when the Hero of Time left the Adult Timeline, that timeline’s Triforce of Courage shattered into eight pieces and scattered throughout the land—er, ocean. Even if he had Wisdom on him, Ganondorf still possessed the Triforce of Power when he was sealed away, and he wasn’t going to let go of it when he broke free.

Besides, if Daphnes did wish on the whole Triforce, it would have disappeared. There would have been no Wind Waker.

- “When she saves Hyrule in spite of interference…”

I’m not even going to finish the quote because the entire paragraph is too much for me to unpack. I’m assuming they’re saying that Zelda is never the one truly in power, and the royal family takes advantage of one Zelda’s good deeds to get brownie points.

However, concerning the first line…

In Ocarina of Time, Zelda going behind her dad’s back to try to “save Hyrule” leads Ganondorf straight to the Sacred Realm. Even though a time paradox leads to everything turning out okay in the end, the bleak future was created because Zelda wanted to play hero and pulled Link along with her. Even if Ganondorf managed to wrench the spiritual stones away from the Zora and Gorons, he wouldn’t have been able to access the Sacred Realm if Zelda didn’t send Link there to pull out the Master Sword, which Ganondorf would have never been able to touch. By all means, Ocarina of Timehappened because a little girl was in over her head and tried to take matters into her own hands when her dad didn’t believe her.

Aside from Breath of the Wild, there’s no other “interference” from the royal family that Zelda has to face.

- “Zelda is the representation of a deity, so it makes sense that people would worship her to some extent, and having a goddess on the throne [probably] blesses the land. So[,] while the kings of Hyrule have a tendency to screw things over, [it makes sense] for Hyrule to be a monarchy because Zelda’s power as the goddess incarnate is needed to defend against Ganon and other threats, [r]ight?”

I acknowledge the author is attempting to portray the royal family’s possible justification for their rule. However, until I reached the succeeding passage, I believed it was the author making this justification, given how the entire paragraph preceding this was pure speculation. Once again, this passage is speculative, as nobody in Hyrule has ever explicitly given any notable opinion concerning the royal family. Why try to justify your rule when nobody’s criticizing it?

Since the author brings up Zelda being a representation of Hylia, however, it does bring to mind a particular problem I have with the royal family suddenly being goddess-blood.

It completely recontextualizes the relationship between the royal family and the Sheikah.

According to Creating a Champion, the Sheikah have a deep devotion to the Goddess Hylia. Since the royal family is descended from the goddess reborn, the Sheikah thusly are deeply devoted to the goddess Hylia.

Source: Creating a Champion, p. 372

Now, the royal government using a minority group of people to do your dirty work is already scummy enough when you’re just a normal royal. In this case, however, the Sheikah are so devoted to their goddess that they will do anything for you. Whether it’s because certain monarchs are a “representation of a deity” remains to be seen, but the point is that they’ll do anything for you.

And the royal family takes complete advantage of a group of people unconditionally loyal to them, bidding them to do unspeakable things in the name of their religion, which for all intents and purposes is the royal family.

That’s absolutely deplorable, and it’s a wonder nobody’s brought attention to it yet, whether in-canon or in-fandom. What’s more, given how Impa is always Zelda’s attendant, this relationship is never questioned or criticized, whether it be by the Sheikah or Zelda herself.

And that’s terrifying.

- “The reason Ganon is always an antagonist is because he’s the vessel for the curse of Demise.”

Demise was introduced in Skyward Sword. Demise is the root of all evil, the creator of monsters and conjuror of demons. He is pure evil in every sense from the word, the Zelda series’ version of Satan. Naturally, he’s as simple as you can get in terms of character. Barebones characterization, providing only just enough to tell the player exactly what they need to know:

He’s evil, he’s powerful, and he wants the Triforce. You have to stop him.

Ganondorf existed before Demise. Ganon had over twenty years of development before Demise brought his progress to a permanent flatline.

Who was Ganon before Demise?

Allow me to remind you.

In The Legend of Zelda, first released on February 21st, 1986, Ganon is simply described as “the Prince of Darkness,” and steals the Triforce of Power when he invades Hyrule. After the Triforce of Wisdom is shattered, he kidnaps Zelda.

He’s evil, he’s powerful, and he wants the Triforce. You have to stop him.

Although Ganon doesn’t physically appear in Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, released in 1987, his presence is still felt as his minions pursue Link in order to revive the Prince of Darkness. In fact, the game over screen is the successful revival of Ganon.

Now, given that these are the first two games in the series, it’s perfectly alright for Ganon to be as barebones as he was. After all, many villains at the time were the same way, with the most notable of Ganon’s counterparts being Bowser from the Super Mario Bros. franchise.

However, with innovation of technology comes innovation of narrative, and it’s with the release of A Link to the Past in 1993 on the SNES that we begin to see Ganon develop as a character. In the prologue to ALttP, Ganon is revealed to have once been human; he is given the name Mandrag Ganon—or Ganondorf Dragmire, as we now know him—and he was once the leader of a band of thieves who sieged the Sacred Realm and took control of the Triforce after murdering his own followers.

Source: A Link to the Past SNES game manual

Ganon is still irrevocably evil, but in this case, we begin to learn more about him. We begin to see a character starting to form. One who isn’t just mindlessly evil, but who has the charm and wit to infiltrate Hyrule Castle and earn the King of Hyrule’s trust in the guise of Agahnim. Ganon was also a very capable leader, having successfully led his band of thieves straight to the Triforce. Even after wishing upon the Triforce and corrupting the Sacred Realm, Ganon’s power attracted followers in the form of greedy, power-seeking people. He’s powerful not by brute force alone, but through his cunning use of intellect.

Ocarina of Time served to further develop Ganon in little ways. For example, this is the first game wherein, for the majority of the game, Ganon is seen and referred to by his human form: Ganondorf. Ganondorf is shown to be powerful enough and stealthy enough to infiltrate the homes of the Zora, the Gorons, and the Kokiri, and send dangerous hazards their way in an effort to seize the Spiritual Stones. At the same time, he is first seen at an audience with the King of Hyrule, as if there for diplomatic reasons.

Although Zelda sees Ganondorf as evil because of her prophetic dream, the King of Hyrule doesn’t believe her. Because of this, we can infer that Ganondorf has enough charm and charisma to, if not win over the King of Hyrule, not be seen as suspicious despite the horrible acts he’d committed, not just in the past, but at that very moment. He’s also shown to be highly cultured, shown at the end of Link’s ascent up Ganon’s Tower. Not only is Ganondorf playing his own theme, but he’s doing so on the pipe organ, which is notoriously one of, if not the most difficult musical instrument to master.

Once Ganondorf seizes the Triforce of Power, the kingdom of Hyrule is subjected to seven long years of his rule. During this time, normal people such as Ingo succumb to their greed and follow Ganondorf’s influence in pursuit of power and riches. Although Malon is naïve enough to believe Ingo was somehow under Ganondorf’s control, it’s clear to players that he was completely in control of his actions, and that Ganondorf’s rule brings out the worst in seemingly average people.

Image credit goes to YouTube user ZorZelda.

Even a Hylian knight can fall under this influence, with it highly inferred that the knight who once guarded a room of pots for Link to smash is now a twisted poe collector, the man even stating that he likes it better this way.

In Wind Waker, we finally see a more introspective side to Ganondorf. While he’s just as ruthless and fully ready to murder a child in the name of accomplishing his goal, he reveals the reason that started him on his path of darkness:

His people were suffering, and he wanted for his people what Hyrule had. He believed that taking Hyrule and taking the Triforce meant that his people could finally live freely, away from the harsh desert.

Now, I’ve seen this challenged time and time again. Was Ganondorf lying to distract or manipulate Link? Was he telling the truth? Is this what Ganondorf has convinced himself to believe, after so much time sealed away and in isolation? We will never know, and that’s part of what makes the game so interesting. Ganondorf’s portrayal is a large part of why so many people love Wind Waker, and it’s not hard to see why.

Perhaps the darkest the Zelda series has ever gone in terms of the Triforce’s power was in Twilight Princess. After freeing Lanayru, the Light Spirit warns Link of the dark power he seeks, the Fused Shadow. In order to do this, she explains the history of the Triforce, and the bloodshed brought by its allure to the darkness in the hearts of men. Before the construction of the Temple of Time, many battles were fought, and one of them was the “Interloper War” that inevitably resulted in the creation of, not only the Light Spirits, but the Twili and the Twilight Realm.

It’s important to note that Lanayru’s cautionary tale highlights that Link, the hero of the story, could succumb to the allure of the Triforce and dark magic just as easily as any other person. In this particular case, anyone could have fallen down the same path as Ganondorf. If anything, this tale is one of the most important bits of lore to take into consideration when discussing the series.

Anyone could have been in Ganondorf’s shoes. It could have happened to anyone.

Then, in one fell swoop, Skyward Sword ruined it.

In a single game, every bit of progress on Ganondorf is lost. Once again, we’re dragged down to the baseline characterization from the original game.

He’s evil, he’s powerful, and he wants the Triforce. You have to stop him.

Suddenly, everything the previous games had built up no longer matters. There’s no longer a need to question whether what Ganondorf did was solely out of greed, but also out of what he felt was necessity. There’s no need to wonder if Ganondorf was once a rational man, who succumbed to the irresistible pull of the Triforce like so many before him.

Ganondorf is, purely and simply, the reincarnation of Satan, so there’s no need to go any deeper than that.

And that’s why I hate this “vessel of Demise” thing. It completely undermines everything Ganondorf once was and reduces him to a single, cardboard cutout of a villain.

Moving on, before I get sad.

- “This curse is specifically tied to Hylia’s bloodline and the Link’s soul, which is pretty specific…”

Demise’s curse is essentially dooming the earth with a never-ending rebirth of his hatred; his malice, if you would. The wording of his curse is specifically “people like you,” which could mean that it isn’t Link and Zelda’s exact souls that are tied to his hatred. Rather, people possessing the blood of the goddess and a heroic, courageous soul are doomed to deal with this curse.

However, my thoughts on this matter are pure speculation.

Also, Demise specifically targets his curse at people like Link and Zelda because they were the ones to kill him in the first place. That much is obvious.

- “… [So] why do the clashes with Ganon always throw the fate of Hyrule into disarray? Because Zelda’s bloodline runs the country.”

Ganon would attack Hyrule even without Zelda’s family in charge. His pursuit of power and domination of the Triforce/Hyrule is therefore closely tied with the fate of Hyrule. Goddess blood on the throne has nothing to do with it.

- “If Zelda came from a small town the curse would probably manifest in peril for that one region which isn’t great but it’s better than an apocalypse.”

Firstly, this is a run-on sentence. Secondly, I reiterate: Ganon would attack Hyrule as a whole, regardless if Zelda’s bloodline was on the throne. It wouldn’t matter if Zelda’s whole family suddenly moved to the countryside. When Ganon inevitably comes back, he’s still gonna go straight for the Triforce or to conquer all of Hyrule. Goddess blood isn’t even part of the equation for Ganon. And if goddess blood isn’t there to stop him, then that’s even better.

Alright, so I’m not even going to bother gratifying the last two paragraphs of the response with an answer, because it’s all rambling that has nothing to do with the original argument. Relinquishing the throne would do nothing to right any wrongs dealt to the many people who were hurt, and evil doesn’t care about a single princess with goddess blood or a boy with a pointy stick.

In conclusion, the addition of Hylia made it so that the royal family’s power dynamic with the Sheikah is even more critically imbalanced than it originally was, making the exile of the Sheikah 10,000 years ago even more heinous than it originally was. Yet, because Hylia is portrayed as wholly good and incapable of doing wrong, despite in-game evidence to the contrary, the royal family, and Zelda by extension, will never be criticized for any wrongdoing. In fact, doing so may well be heresy, if the responses to my original post are anything to go by.

By comparison, the addition of Demise diminishes Ganondorf’s character, rendering him down from the makings of a complex, human character—where anyone could have easily been in his place and had the same greed and ambition for power—into simply the reincarnation of the literal devil, where of course he’s evil, and you don’t have to do any digging beneath the surface. Ganondorf is the reincarnation of Demise, or his hate, or his vessel, so he’s pure evil and nothing more.

And that’s the greatest disservice Nintendo has ever dealt to The Legend of Zelda.

#legend of zelda #ganondorf #princess zelda #breath of the wild #botw #loz #tloz #ocarina of time #twilight princess #zelda #link to the past #alttp #wind waker #ganon #the legend of zelda #hylia #goddess hylia #demise

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bouvillea · 3 years

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G25 Part 2 Essay, Very Dense

There is very little I will say as a preamble besides that Part 2 was a very powerful conclusion to an extremely climatic arc. That being said, spoilers below and my Part 1 essay can be found here.

I will start by saying that although I am quite satisfied with this ending I wish things could have ended differently. This is the first time we were given antagonists who were actual individuals we had to overcome. And in doing so, we were faced with people who had powerful reasons and motivations to sacrifice for. That is something I will come back to later so—

In a broad overview of the plot of Part 2, we were given an uplifting reunion with Talvish, who claims that his decisions and choices were made with the Milletian’s best interests in mind. And it’s nice* to work together after so long, to finally have him fulfill the promise of being with the Milletian at the very end. There is a sweet moment where the roles are reversed and the Milletian asks him if he is alright. Instead of being asked to trust him, he wholeheartedly puts his trust in the Milletian.

*if you know me even just a little, you know I simp hard for this man and let me tell you I went from “I will be the first one to punch him” to “please don’t go” in a matter of minutes

And then, when everything is rewound and the Milletian is able to protect their friends and prevent the worst possible ending, all the Good Guys have a Good Time. This is of course, glossing over the fact that Deirbhile sacrificed herself, Tani dying with a finality that Milletians shouldn’t have, Piran falling apart, Treasure Hunter breaking down, and Marleid conflicted over what to do with her extremely Problematic Childhood Friend.

We still got to have a good time! We got to revel with our friends! Speak with everyone and catch up and talk and chat and eat and—

It was nice but I am very bitter because those good times only emphasized how different it ended for Cethlenn and Vayne.

If Part 1 was about trauma, Part 2 was about breaking out of predestiny and walking a different path that was set before you. This comes quite literally when Talvish appears and rewinds time* to save the Milletian from the future he saw. He (and later, Hymerark) reveals to us something that touches the fourth wall:

*not sure why I was so surprised that he could manipulate time in such a way when the Milletian’s first meeting with him was through time. Maybe I just thought it was through the Milletian’s powers that they managed to communicate but clearly Talvish’s powers were doing something. Oh dang it makes sense why he isolated himself in a desert for centuries now…because he can’t affect time that he has been personally involved in

The ability to redo main storyline missions when we fail them is quite literally the Milletian, breaking the flow of time to try again until we succeed. Due to the nature of altering timelines, those uninvolved with the messing of time don’t remember all the previous attempts. Later, it is revealed that all our redoes and failures have a negative impact on Erinn; it increases the entropy in the world as different realities are created and then stopped. Tani is a result of that.

It is further revealed that Vayne⁠—or I should say now, Beimnech, is a singularity who experiences all these timelines and realities. He must return to Mag Tuireadh whenever the flow of time breaks because it is the role he has been forced into by Hymerark. He is the counterpoint for Talvish. The two are diametrically opposed, canonical foils with mirroring ideals and views of the world. Beimnech mentions during Eternal Dreams that he has seen Milletians fail to convince Talvish* to change his mind about the world, or fail to garner enough faith in their friends. In the current timeline, Talvish is enlightened by the Milletian and so takes control of his fate and chooses to rewind time instead of having it cut off and restart.

*It is implied that Talvish also experiences the different timelines over and over again, but he forgets it the moment the timeline is replaced with a new one. Alternatively, Beimnech is also taken out of time and space whenever the flow is broken, so the cycles are even more unbearable because he is forced to witness them as an outsider.

Beimnech did not have the liberty of meeting the Milletian before he met Hymerark. Unlike Talvish, he could not surround himself with equal companions and could not hope for a life where he was not just fulfilling a role to balance the world. The only way he could have some control over his own fate as cycles repeated over and over again was to orchestrate his own death*. He remarked before in G24 that had he and the Milletian walked different paths, they could have been friends and not enemies. Both he and Talvish see the Milletian as a savior—as a guiding, bright light. But while Talvish burned alongside the Milletian, Beimnech burned out like dying embers** or a shadow too weak to hold up against illumination.

*maybe it’s selfish, but who can blame him when he only has himself? I seethe with the unfairness of characters that have no choice but to be the “darkness” to contrast the “light”. The “what could have been if things were different” hurts as do the inability to break free from what was laid out. I seethe, but that means the story is doing as intended and I am by no means criticizing, just empathizing (I’d highkey write something like this ngl I am a ball of angst).

**the refrain that plays when the Milletian is prompted to deal the final blow to Beimnech is called The Last of the Heat Fades/Residual Heat Fades Away.

Beimnech’s disappointment in the Milletian in Part 1 is suddenly very understandable. He had pinned all his hopes in one person and he knew they were going to fail. We even saw him return to end the Corrupted Milletian in the future that we never got to witness. He did for the Milletian what he hoped they would do to him*. And then for once, to have time rewind instead of abruptly ending? I can’t imagine…

*I chose to not stab him. Apparently that gives you more of his backstory. Regardless of the decision, when he tells you he lies for the first and last time about his death…

Something can be said about Cethlenn, too, who was “emptied out” by Fodla. His current name, Cethlenn, was given to him by Beimnech, which honestly if you know your myth and lore spawns so much food for thought*. Speaking to Cethlenn in Tech Duinn on Saturdays reveals that Beimnech gave him that name because he always wanted a right-hand man with that name. Whatever that implies to the nature of their relationship… If you have the time, please, please speak to him with all the keywords at your disposal. It’s worth it.

*another food for thought includes Sera being the one to help Piran escape and Beimnech noticing that. Beimnech being Super Old and Super Tired with so much bottled up Memories and Experience like the opposite of Talvish With a Purpose okay one day I will actually write a whole essay about their foils⁠—

Ultimately, Cethlenn is given the choice to be the watcher in the mists of Feth Fiada. He acknowledges his crimes* and so he refuses to exit (except on Samhain aka Saturday). He is openly antagonistic towards everyone except Marleid, which is understandable. He thinks he has tied Marleid down. Further conversations with him in Tech Duinn reveal that he’s pugnacious and as eager as Vayne once was to spar with the Milletian. He’s also very easy to bully. He implies that in the future, he may recover the powers he lost in his deal with Hymerark and will use those powers for the greater good so…more Cethlenn content in the future? Hopefully?

*what worried me the most at the end of G24 was that I could not see how he or Vayne could be redeemed. I would scoop them up in a heartbeat. But could my Milletian? Could the people of Erinn? Obviously not.

I know I brought up the concept of escaping predestiny and then dropped it like a hot potato so I’ll do some quick rundowns now of other examples. Enya realizing that she can have a life beyond just staying in her sanctum and caring for the Holy Flame, Piran gathering the courage to recognize his own existence is worth something, Hymerark* realizing that there is no reason to continue to mess around with people and she can just observe. I’ve rewatched the conversation the Milletian has with Hymerark after the battle and I don’t even know where to start…Talvish remarked that she’s the closest in resemblance to Aton Cimeni’s will since she balances both freedom and chaos. Maybe these higher gods were never meant to have sentience or conscience because the moment they do, they make decisions and bam the whole world is a mess.

*the Milletian seem to do this to all the gods, huh?

My current understanding of things is that the Evil God Balor was created by Aton Cimeni as a counterpoint for Talvish, who is the Guardian, the sentinel of Erinn. Why? For Balance of course. But you can’t just create someone to be evil. Somewhere in between, Aton Cimeni stops answering and while Talvish plots machinations for the future he saw, Balor’s disdain for his role grows and eventually beefs it in a fight with Lugh at the battle of Mag Tuireadh. His body is dead, but his spirit remains, picked up by Hymerark to be the…plug stopping Noitar Arat. I imagine Hymerark also faced the same struggle that Talvish did of attempting to carry out duties imparted on them by their creator but yet new to independence and the weight of their responsibilities that now fell on their shoulders. Hymerark expresses her faint indecision of hearing the wishes of everyone. There will always be conflict in decisions.

Meanwhile, Talvish realizes that the balance has shifted in the absence of the Evil God Balor and so the events of G21 happen, where he attempts to recreate the balance with his own hands and summon something to replace Balor. While this fails, Hymerark tries to do the same again by corrupting the Milletian and making them the final obstacle to correct the unending cycle that, frankly, started because of her.

In G25 Part 1, Vayne mentions that Aton Cimeni will always have a solution. I suppose in this case, he was talking about how even if he were to disappear completely, someone will always take his place. Just like how Triona’s role was passed on to Millia, a new darkness grows. Not without repercussion, of course. Something is coming and that’s for G26.

In the final confrontation with Beimnech, he offers the Milletian a choice to either kill him now and escape, or perish together with him in the rift. He mentions that in the end, we are all forgotten anyway. I don’t think that is the case. The Milletian lives and the memories of everyone they’ve fought with lives with them. That is their burden. Not everyone can walk a righteous path. Sometimes, desperate individuals seek the wrong help and I like to think that the Milletian recognizes that it isn’t just black and white, and that they are fortunate to have found the right people. Things are just going to get rougher for the Milletian because they’re also a guardian of Erinn, which begs the question: who is the counterpoint for the Milletian? Does one even exist? Does there need to be one?

Instead of ending on such a gloom and doom note, I’ll go full circle and talk about Llywelyn again and his mentions of a sibling again? And also tea time?? 10/10 would fake date Llywelyn just for the court gossip. (LF > political intrigue comic ft. Milletian and Llywelyn dating like it’s 17th century France) Also Llywelyn being the next captain of the Elved Squad?? Tried to imagine him in Talvish’s armor and as I type this I realize they won’t do something stupid like that they’ll just change the emblem on his armor. Alright I think that’s it I’m hitting 2.3k words so—

Oh right something something the Aces go off somewhere again just as Hunter was going to say something…can we get a base for them please? So we can just visit them? So they don’t just pop in and out of the Milletian’s life? Thanks.

I’m about to get super sappy so readers, feel free to skip all of this. I’ve been playing mabi for about 11 years at this point and it has been a long ride. I didn’t start writing these rants and essays until G21 and I also started drawing in earnest about mabi around the same time with comics and fanart. I don’t participate much in the community as a whole because I am an anxiously overthinking person. It’s no surprise that I found comfort characters in mabi and so I return here again and again (not that I’ve ever really left). We’re getting a new game director after G25 and I am extremely grateful for all he has done for the game. And in the same vein, I’m thankful to all of you reading this. There’s no point in creating content when there is no audience, especially when I am as reclusive as I am. So, to my new readers: thanks for coming along. And to my old fans: thanks for sticking around. Until the next chapter!

#mabinogi #mabinogi g25 #mabinogi g25 spoilers #bouvillea speaks #very very dense essay

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astrochats · 4 years

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Astro Scales: the breakdown by sign

In our first post, we introduced the Astro Scales system and discussed each element’s heart and head values. In this post, we will further break down each element into its three signs, and explain what distinguishes the signs from one another.

The Astro Scales system derives its name from a pair of scales, where we envision head and heart values being weighed against each other. Some signs weigh the head value above the heart value, some weigh the heart value above the head value, and some place an equal weight on both values, balancing the scales.

For example, while all fire signs struggle with the primary conflict of now vs. later, we argue that the charging ram Aries weighs now, the fire heart value, above the head value of later. By contrast, the archer Sagittarius believes in the value of biding their time, despite the draw of fulfilling their desires immediately; thus Sagittarius weighs head over heart. Meanwhile, proud Leo, king of the jungle, constantly balances immediate reward against delayed gratification.

We observe these 3 configurations of the scales (heart over head, balancing both, head over heart) in all 4 elements, giving each of the 12 zodiac signs its own distinctive character.

***

Fire signs (now vs. later)

Aries: now

The first sign in the zodiac, Aries the ram bursts into existence with an uncontainable life force, as if to announce to the world, “I am here.” It’s therefore no surprise that Aries leads with the heart value of now over the head value of later. Although Aries understands on some level that waiting can lead to greater rewards, the cost of forgoing the immediate rush of instant gratification is often too high for this impatient sign. More so than any other fire sign, Aries embodies the action principle of fire: a flame’s existence depends on a continued fuel source, or it will be extinguished. Thus it is important for Aries to feel a sense of forward momentum with all of their actions, and stasis is very uncomfortable for them. Aries may feel anxiety about not getting what they have set their minds to and if they cannot follow through with their plans, they can feel lost and unlike themselves. It’s instinctual for Aries to prioritize the desires of their heart above the head. This means that while Aries is very good at making decisive moves to instigate the outcome they desire, others can feel steamrolled or ignored in Aries’ hasty actions.

Leo: balancing both

Ruled by the Sun, Leo is a sign that flourishes when it’s in the spotlight. Leos are generous with their warmth and their love; being around them can feel like basking in warm sunshine. Leos shine brightest when surrounded by other people, and their need for continuous attention from others explains why Leos balance the heart value of now against the head value of later. For Leo, balancing these values means pursuing all of their immediate desires, while making concessions so as not to lose their audience. The lion is the king of the jungle, and like all kings, Leo walks a fine line between luxuriating in all the perks of being at the top, yet always being aware of the precariousness of their position. There is always someone next in line, waiting to usurp a king who shows weakness or loses the support of his followers, and proud Leo feels keenly the cold shadow that descends upon them when the spotlight is turned on someone else. For this reason, it is rare to see two Leos in one group of friends. Though people are quick to characterize Leos as overconfident and self-absorbed, these traits can be attributed to this sign’s tendency towards idealism and a general wholehearted optimism for life.

Sagittarius: later

Although Sagittarians may be known for their impulsivity, a second look at this sign reveals a surprising willingness to bide their time. Note that of all the fire signs, Sagittarius is the only one represented not by an animal, but by the archetype of the archer -- the hunter, who must lie in wait for the perfect moment to strike, reflecting how Sagittarius weighs their head value of later over their heart value of now. Another aspect of the Sagittarian mythology involves the figure of the centaur, a half-human, half-horse. While Sagittarius may feel the primal urge of now from beneath its hooves, its higher faculties are able to temper these urges. Ruled by Jupiter, the planet of luck and expansion, Sagittarius is willing to take a gamble on waiting until later in the hope of reaping greater rewards. Sagittarius feels most like themselves when they have the freedom to explore various options and are able to escape when life gets too restrictive. These tendencies result in the endless optimism and adaptability Sagittarians bring to all of life’s ups and downs, but can also result in an impression of flightiness and unreliability.

***

Water signs (feeling vs. fantasy)

Scorpio: feeling

Of the three water signs, Scorpio alone is represented by a non-water-dwelling animal. Compared to the dark, nurturing ocean depths where Cancer and Pisces live, the harsh, flat desert where the scorpion dwells contains few hiding places; here, everyone is stripped bare. Similarly, this sign favors the heart value of raw feeling over the head value of fantasy, which they see as a watery world of self delusions and concealments. Even as they are drawn to the boundless promise of the mystical and fantastic, Scorpio accepts that they live in the physical world and must adapt to its harshness rather than seeking escape in dreams. Scorpios feel things intensely, and they have a hard time hiding or masking their emotions, seeming even to revel in the darker side of their nature. Since they see the world and other people with clear eyes, without the veneer of idealism, they find trust and vulnerability difficult. Scorpio’s combination of intensity and penetrative perception gives them a magnetic quality, which can be attractive to many. But when tangling with this guarded sign, know that physical passions do not necessarily translate into emotional intimacy.

Cancer: balancing both

Cancer the crab walks between the watery world of fantasy and the earthly sands of real sensation. Though they are often stereotyped as sensitive and moody, this reputation stems from the tug-of-war between Cancer’s heart value of feeling and head value of fantasy. Far from being mutually exclusive, this sign’s heart and head values often feed into and build upon each other. For a Cancer, real-life feelings are heightened by their fantastical imaginings, while their fantasies are imbued with real attachment. For example, in everyday conflicts, it comes naturally for Cancer to cast others in the roles of hero and villain. Conversely, this sign’s romantic daydreams can replicate or even surpass the giddy euphoria of actually falling in love. Because Cancers attach equal weight to their fantasies and their lived emotions, it can be extremely painful and disappointing for this sign when experiences don’t live up to the expectations set by fantasies; this is when Cancer may retreat without warning behind a spiky exterior. However, a person who is able to coax this sign out of their shell will find a uniquely soft and nurturing nature: a Cancer’s affection is given wholeheartedly and without reserve.

Pisces: fantasy

Pisces the fish lives entirely submerged in the ocean depths of fantasy, so much so that Pisceans often seem to inhabit their own plane of existence. With this sign of dreams, the subconscious, and the spiritual, the head value of fantasy comes so naturally that they may have difficulty separating fantasy from their emotional reality. For Pisces, fantasy involves a predisposition towards creating deeper meaning from the apparent randomness and chaos of life. This may morph into existential dread if Pisces begins to consider the possibility that reality is actually random and devoid of meaning. Everyday, practical matters tend to fade into the background in the face of these looming existential questions, which may contribute to this sign’s “head in the clouds” reputation. While Pisces, like other water signs, is highly emotionally attuned, their fixation on fantasy can make it difficult for this sign to express or indeed, truly experience their immediate feelings. This results in Pisces’ susceptibility to absorbing the feeling currents of others around them, as well as their reputation for empathy and sensitivity. A Pisces who is too detached from the truth of their own feelings can become oversensitive and withdrawn.

***

Earth signs (conviction vs. compromise)

Taurus: conviction

Famously stubborn, Taurus’s stability comes from their firm heart value of conviction, which they weigh over the head value of compromise. Because Taurus’s sense of identity is so grounded in their personal convictions, being confronted with the necessity of compromise can feel like an affront to Taurus’s self-image. This is why Taurus, more than any other sign, is known to fear change despite recognizing the importance of growth -- after all, compromise by definition requires us to leave our comfort zone in some way. Like the immovable bull, Taurus prefers to stick to what they know and trust, not only in their beliefs but also in their habits and environments. While they are aware, as all earth signs are, that there are times when we must prioritize practicality and/or the common good, it costs more comparatively for a Taurus to repress their innermost beliefs. Although this sign may come across as stubborn and obstinate at times, others know that they can trust Taurus to be honest and reliable.

Virgo: balancing both

The maiden associated with Virgo embodies purity of course, but also carries a sheaf of wheat, representing the harvest. These two symbols encapsulate Virgo’s balancing act between their heart value of conviction and their head value of compromise: while it is important for Virgo to uphold the purity and clarity of their personal convictions, this service-oriented sign may not always find it necessary or appropriate to impress these convictions upon others. The harvest is emblematic of humans’ interdependence with each other and with nature; Virgo’s approach to compromise follows a similar principle of being conscious of how your actions affect others. They are careful not to be offensive or take up too much space, and tend to disdain those who act rudely or thoughtlessly. Balancing conviction and compromise can be a struggle for Virgos, who feel they must remain true to themselves even as they wish to avoid making a fuss. This may account for some of this overanalytical sign’s tendency towards anxiety and neurosis. Virgos treat each word and action they put into the universe with extreme care, but even so, they may stay up late at night regretting their decisions.

Capricorn: compromise

Even as the mountain goat Capricorn steadily ascends the mountain, it never loses sight of its grounded perspective. Capricorns weigh their head value above their heart value; although they have as strong a sense of their convictions as other earth signs, it is unlikely that a Capricorn will allow these private convictions to interfere with their ability to compromise. Compared to other earth signs, Capricorns tend to come across as more patient when dealing with people because they try to accommodate everyone’s differences in order to move forward. Another way to understand this value could be “compartmentalization,” something that comes naturally to this sign. Some may call Capricorns cold because of their ability to put distance between their actions and their personal feelings/allegiances; they would simply call themselves realistic. Compromise serves most Capricorns well -- in the long term, they will be able to build respect, recognition and a reputation of dependability in the eyes of others.

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Air signs (knowledge vs. faith)

Aquarius: knowledge

Ruled by Uranus, the planet of revolution and rebellion, Aquarius the water bearer is characterized by independence, originality and humanitarianism. Aquarians are not known to be followers; their determination to walk their own path emerges from their heart value of knowledge, which they prioritize over the head value of faith. If you want to recruit Aquarius to your cause or way of thinking, you’d better be prepared to explain every step of your logic. For Aquarius, blindly following a belief that is not their own feels like a betrayal of the principle to seek truth. Even if an Aquarius hasn’t yet developed their own perspective on a subject, they are eager to pick holes in someone else’s viewpoint in order to better understand the other person’s logic. Since Aquarians tend to forget that most people’s beliefs include emotion as well as logic, this sign runs the risk of coming across as cold or unemotional. Yet it is equally common for Aquarians to attract those who admire their unique perspective.

Libra: balancing both

Portrayed as a pair of scales, it comes as no surprise that Libra is the air sign that balances the heart and head values of knowledge and faith. The heart value of knowledge gives Libra a clear view of their own beliefs, though they are unlikely to offer these opinions unless pressed or in the company of someone they fully trust. This is because Libra wishes to avoid conflict and maintain a sense of equilibrium in most situations, and it comes naturally to this sign to reflect other people’s opinions back at them, telling others what they most want to hear. Libras are seen by some as indecisive or “fake” because their behavior can change depending on their company. However, this is not to say that Libras are simply humoring the other party; they believe that each person has their own truth that they live by and they are willing to reconcile disparate opinions with their own, especially when faced with an emotionally charged appeal. In this way, this harmony-seeking sign can manage knowledge and faith simultaneously without sacrificing either; the result is Libra’s distinctive charm and agreeable nature.

Gemini: faith

Gemini’s ruler Mercury is the fastest-moving planet in our solar system. Accordingly, Gemini, the mercurial twins of the zodiac, always thinks a million thoughts at once. Their talkative, loud exterior tends to mask their propensity to overanalyze and doubt their own logical flow. Gemini weighs their head value of faith over the heart value of knowledge: it is often easier for a Gemini to take someone else’s words as truth rather than stick to their own knowledge, unless the other person’s opinions strongly contradict systems that they already know to be correct. Although Gemini is much maligned for the stereotype of being “two-faced,” this sign isn’t being consciously duplicitous; they are simply so faith-oriented that it is difficult for them to maintain their former beliefs in the face of someone else’s forceful opinions. A Gemini’s fluid, fast-paced thought process can accommodate many different and conflicting truths in rapid succession -- to arrive at a single, final truth is the real challenge for this sign. For Gemini, knowledge seems less like a stable destination and more like a never-ending journey of considering each possibility and perspective.

***

Thanks for reading! xxx fon & bells

p.s. Our ask box is now open!

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felassan · 4 years

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Tevinter Nights: Non-Solas major stuff

This is a rundown of the other major stuff in Tevinter Nights; big developments in Thedosian current events and significant new additions to the lore, things which are unrelated to Solas. Not speculation or theorizing, it’s intended as just a broadstrokes short-form report for ease of consumption. Organized into the major factions/groups. (The Solas motherpost is here.) Obvious spoiler warning for the whole book under the cut.

The Qunari and their invasion

The Antaam have invaded the south without the permission of the rest of the Qunari branches. Their efforts are somewhat hampered without the usual support of workers, healers etc. Small things aren’t going well like supply lines and ship repairs. They’re taking many prisoners and enslaving them in work-camps. With no Ben-Hassrath to judge or regulate, they’re intentionally giving mentally-lethal doses of qamek to all captured bas mages. Small doses shackle the mind. Large doses completely break it and leave the recipient effectively lobotomized forever. Ben-Hassrath who investigated this are disappointed in the Antaam, believing they’re not acting in accordance with the Qun and that it’s these actions that are what threaten it. Although fractured and without the Ben-Hassrath the Antaam still have assassins. The Ben-Hassrath have been staying out of the war, remaining neutral on the sidelines. They do not work for hire but can be persuaded. The Antaam are agitating for the Ben-Hassrath to assist openly but they are remaining officially neutral and trying to blunt the Antaam’s strike. There’s also a new Darvaarad. Because the last one’s walls were ineffective (lol), this one is a ship; they want to keep it moving with speed and secrecy instead of fortifications.

The invasion passes Ventus and moves into Rivain. Many Tevinter relics were uncovered and sent rolling thanks to the Antaam chaos in the north. The Antaam kicked up all sorts of ancient, dangerous objects. Many women and children have been injured in the northern battles between Tevinter and the Antaam and several makeshift hospitals have sprung up. The invasion has the southern nations on edge. It also seems to be a certainty that they’re going to invade Antiva (see below in the section about Antiva and the Crows). The southerners assumed lack of workers and priests would hobble the Antaam but they were wrong, those Qunari would have been a moderating influence. We’re told that in Tevinter the Antaam have crushed the Vint opposition in the east and that it’s possible everything east of Vyrantium will be under their control inside a year, and northern Antiva as well. Some Ben-Hassrath infiltrated the Archon’s palace to steal an artifact. Interestingly at one point some Antaam led by Rasaan appears and she refers to them as “her” Antaam. Attention is drawn to this.

The Dalish

Some intrepid Dalish elves snuck into Ventus as it fell to steal info about the Qunari’s invasion plans. They succeed and dispatch a messenger to warn the clans in/beyond Rivain before the Qunari land there. We learn a new clan name, Oranavra. This clan sell their goods. At one point recently a group of them - a family - were wiped out by Vint soldiers on the order of a Magister. The clan saved up money and hire a Crow to kill those involved. The Crow succeeds. The Magister had also stolen an ironbark halla from the clan, which was a symbol of Ghilan’nain. The clan don’t remember how they came to own it, but they believed that as long as they kept it safe, the goddess would protect them and guide them to new fertile lands to grow food, areas to hunt and beautiful lands in which to raise their children. The Crow they hire has a helper whose uncle is in the clan - the Crow is the helper’s mistress and his cousins are Dalish. Tevinter soldiers, it seems, regularly scour the countryside for Dalish to drive away/eradicate. Some have truly horrendous views concerning them.

The Executors

An Executor appears at a meeting with Carta, Mortalitasi and Inquisition. It speaks in italics. For their opinions on and interactions with Solas, go to the Solas post. It’s unclear whether it’s male, female or other, or young or old. It’s covered head to toe in leather gloves and dark robes of Vyrantium samite with a thin mesh covering the face. Underneath the hood it’s featureless black. The robes are trimmed in an unknown pattern. It doesn’t appear to drink. A faint whiff of the ocean and something beyond it comes from its robes. Its voice is less a voice than the idea of a voice, rendered acceptably but no more. Its words carry a weight that made a drink ripple. At one point it comments another char stinks of lies and fear. It’s not clear if it is a mage or not.

The Wardens and darkspawn

The Wardens have discovered a new kind of darkspawn in Hormok Thaig which is ancient and below a mountain near a Nevarran forest. Some have extra heads and limbs or the wrong parts attached, like a genlock with a hurlock head. Others have weird parts like avian skulls, scorpion tails, wings, snake heads for fists. They’re also strangely cunning. In the same place the Wardens also discovered twisted grotesqueries like a halla with a serpent’s maw and varterral legs and a giant centipede creature whose ‘head’ is the fucked up fused torso of a missing Warden. The creature refers to a “she” and “her”. The origin of all this stuff is a big pool of gross gray liquid. Above a huge lyrium crystal is suspended glowing green. Streams of energy flow from it into the pool. Darkspawn walk in, the water flows round them and when the cocoon shatters another fucked up darkspawn comes out. The pool also changes people who drink from it, like the lost Warden was forced to do. This is an army, but not of darkspawn, of something worse. This stuff is going on under 11 other mountains too.

Recently a summons has called available Wardens to Weisshaupt Fortress.

Nevarra and the Mortalitasi

Every mage in Nevarra is part of the Mortalitasi. They are a group that train the gifted in the mysteries of magic and serve as Nevarra’s arcane protectors and priests. They believe that when someone dies a spirit is pushed out of the Fade into our world. In exchange they invite those spirits to inhabit the empty bodies left behind. This is common orthodoxy for the Nevarran populace. Nevarrans believe the Grand Necropolis is a fitting resting place for the bodies of all good souls who go to the Maker. Mortalitasi spend most of their time in or around the Necropolis. They rarely go into Nevarra City unless tending to a death. Mortalitasi raise spirits in the dead to do menial chores for them. Other spirits give consent to inhabit the dead and work for the death mages in roles such as librarians. The Mortalitasi have a branch called the Mourn Watch, a select group within and an old fraternity. Watchers’ jobs are to serve as elite guardians, keepers of the Necropolis. They have absolute authority over funerary dead. They assist both the dead and the living and help confused/unbalanced spirits resolve themselves, dealing with magic gone awry. Another sect is the Guides of the Path who shepherd the corpses. Yet another sect are described as the “truest” mages as they bind spirits and the Fade and in doing so can bend the world beneath to their will. A bunch of Nevarrans think the Mortalitasi were sent to save the kingdom from civil war. Another bunch of them think they do “secret rituals” and “mind-control experiments”. Many Nevarrans have great respect for the Mortalitasi. Prior lore suggested the Mortalitasi rule through influencing the King, whose mind is weak. This is confirmed. They rule the king with a small investment of time and through him rule others. This is in contrast to Tevinter Magisters who rule directly.

The Necropolis is full of weird and wonderful shit and has amazing bewildering architecture. Public gardens, trees in sunless tunnels, ornate carvings, open-air mausoleums, walking dead, uncatalogued dead-creature things, streams. Flowering Gates, a bridge made of giants’ bones, a maze of mirrors, spacious tombs, exotic terrors. Its lower halls are not always in the same place at the same time. Some parts of it are forbidden even to the dead. Some parts are very old, even to the Tower Age.

In Nevarra the royal families have tumultuous histories and ever-changing status in the King’s court. There’s currently so much tension between the Nevarran royal families that it wouldn’t take much to tip the whole country into chaos. At present, the centuries-old feud between the Van Markhams and the Pentaghasts is the most imporant thing going on to most Nevarrans. When the King dies with no successor, the Markham-Pentaghast conflict will probably become more than just a squabble over the heir in spirited discussions behind closed doors. They might drag their war into the streets. Some nobles are worried that the empty throne might prompt Mortalitasi to slither into it. Other noble houses are doing what they can to increase their current standing in the court also, including assassinating rivals. We come across one plot where a noble wanted to take down the Mortalitasi, and a Mortalitasi who thinks it’s time for them to intervene and step in to rule the country directly.

New spirit lore: complex/’complete’ entities in Cole-like situations are rare. Some Mortalitasi argue these ‘higher dead’ still have their mortal souls. Others say this is impossible and that these entities are actually caught between 2 opposing spirits e.g. anger and curiosity. Whatever the case they are unbalanced.

Elfy stuff

Arlathan Forest is full of old and powerful spirits. It’s also home to rare entities known as forest guardians, which are large quadrupedal structures made out of wood, stone, runes and lyrium. They have two lethal blade arms which they swing around in combat and may be powered by magic, but it is not clear. They are not usually hostile to elves in the forest but are shown responding aggressively to hostile Qunari.

Ghilan’nain is implicated historically in fucked up monster shit (see the Wardens section). Elven bas-reliefs and carvings are found which are eerie and disquieting and show elves with prison-ship aravels and insectile halla carting victims to what are essentially fucked-up-experiment-dungeons in mountains; elven mages doing horrid things; and contemptuous elven rulers over their terrified subjects. There’s also a repeating painting showing a person/supplicant, a priestess/queen and a monster. Each time it repeats the person and monster change and the priestess looks crueler. This painting appears to be OF elves, but IN dwarven style (done by dwarves). Curious.

Tevinter and the Venatori

There’s now an anti-slavery movement in Tevinter. Tevinter has a less than cordial relationship with Rivain. We meet a Tevinter mage who is a thief and one who is a private investigator. Tevinter is full of advanced magical marvels like floating buildings and barman-less bars, and magic use there is so common-place that defective magical lightning flasks (for example) are even just thrown out into the gutter. We hear of one mage healer who could attach a severed hand. There are chemist mages. One mage tried to perform a ritual to influence and direct the Fade against the Antaam so that demons, spirits and dreams would urge them back north. This was supposed to weaken the Qunari resolve and crumble the invasion, but he fails. Livius Erimond’s sister is involved in the Venatori (racist blood mages!). One especially effed up high-ranking Venatori has been using red lyrium to do horrid experiments on slaves to create ‘art’. This guy was in possession of one of the ancient elven artifacts that strengthen the Veil and is such a supremacist that he gets super triggered when he even hears a foreign language being spoken.

Corypheus wanted Tevinter reborn. He trusted Minrathous to be the jewel of his new world. He planned to return there after his victory in the south. After the fall of Cory, the Venatori cult lost its bite. A good number of cultists, who never admitted they were Venatori in the first place, distanced themselves from the whole affair. That doesn’t stop remaining loyalist fanatics from acting delusional and stirring up trouble. Some Venatori recruit others by saying they will end slavery. There are Venatori street prophets who try to spread the good word. It’s noted that it’s not illegal to be a cultist. Venatori believe that Tevinter was once glorious and is a lot shitter now, and want to rectify that, even though the old empire was even more corrupt and heartless than the present day. Some believe that Cory’s machinations live on in them. They think their gods would see them lifted and believe in their veins runs true Vint blood passed down from the dreamers. They still want to enter the Black City. They think Minrathous has lost its way and would give their lives for the glory of Tevinter reborn. The Loyal believe Cory’s fall is a test.

There are ancient Catacombs beneath Minrathous, old as the city itself, officially for storage in case of seige. Unofficially they hold many shady corners, forgotten places, and dark secrets. Weird pendants start turning up in the city. They are seals, round clay discs seated in polished black shell on gold chains. A long, thin 4-winged dragon is etched on the front, rising from a dark sea. They have blood magic enchantments on them and there’s 8 of them. There’s a man who looks at objects people don’t want others to know about. He realizes a pendant is blood magic but he says he hasn’t seen blood magic like this since Cory. This makes him scared and he clams up and refuses to study it any further, throwing the POV char out. It turns out the Venatori have been doing expeditions beneath Minrathous looking for a specific cave. The cave is hidden in the Catacombs and contains a trapped demon sealed beneath the city. The Venatori want to release it and have been unfolding the seal enchantments so they snap. They refer to the demon’s coming as “The Hour [of Minrathous’ return]”. Demon probably isn’t even the right word, it’s not like any demon Minrathous has fought before, and it’s something only a god or godlike figure could summon. It seems like the plan was originally for Cory to release it and then he could rebuild Tevinter. Then if Minrathous wasn’t ready to kneel, the demon would have made sure it did. Even though Cory is gone the Venatori wanted to proceed with this. Apparently releasing it will kill most of Minrathous and destroy the city.

About 30 Venatori attempt the release ritual, which involves blood magic sacrifice and a stone obelisk. There’s a strange sick buzzing in peoples’ heads and an “expansive need for emptiness” pervades the area. A formless shadow beneath moves at odds with the lights that cast it. The demon is described as “the edge of something deeper”. If it’s a demon at all, it’s older and larger and more nameless than any demon regular folk have heard of and so much worse. It’s implied the ‘demon’ doesn’t care about Minrathous/Tevinter glory and that the Venatori wouldn’t be able to control it. At one point someone stumbles into the shadow, it wraps around his wrists, he convulses and his body sinks into it. The Venatori’s attempt to release the thing is foiled and it’s sealed. Nobody talks about it because doing so admits the Venatori still have too much power. Some Venatori will face their crimes, others will claim they’re victims of blood-magic control, especially those with money. Sounds to me like the demon was maybe the Formless One, of the Forbidden Ones. Possibly a Forgotten One, remember the lore suggests a link between the 2 groups (Band of Three). Or maybe even a remaining old god, why is the seal pattern a weird 4-winged dragon? But the Formless One seems like the most likely candidate given the way it’s described and considering that it’s the only one of the Forbidden Ones left for us to encounter.

Tevinter Templars

The templars in Tevinter, unlike the rest of the world, lack the ability to stop magic. They’re only guards with fancy equipment doused in lyrium, often armed with swords or maces. It gives them chips the size of trees on their shoulders, and probably explains their surliness. They’re basically cops in shiny metal armor. A Tevinter mage in one bit wonders if the Tevinter templars could prove they’re worth the Chantry’s levies and hunt a monster plaguing Minrathous. Some mages think they’re useless. In Tevinter, templars only act when magic is used outside the law, except in special cases where a bribe makes it special or the mage-based justicars step in. If a job doesn’t need justicar attention or the templars want to consult a mage without being walked all over, they hire outside assistance like from PIs. Some of their offices/buildings seem cramped, it seems they’re not held in high respects by the Circles and aren’t allocated lots of resources. They have enchanted weapons made of Fade-touched metal and marked with the Circle’s seal designed to subdue mages, but in order to keep the mages happy they aren’t always allowed access to them. The weapons are assigned for specific and approved circumstances only. These weapons can shoots beam of light.

Antiva and the Crows

We meet old Crows who are still active in the field. Some of the Crow leaders are also old. The Crows are known for usually putting on a show and being bird-masked, ornate, flashy and jester-motley. The Crows are mostly heroes in Antiva. Antivans tend to romanticize them as freedom fighters. In the Towers Age they were hired to kill the top templars in retribution for them enacting the Right of Annulment and covering up the slaughter. Crows’ tattoos mark which house they belong to.

We learn the identities and names of the Eight Talons - a mix of men and women, old and young, humans and elves - and the names of the 8 houses. One of them is a bastard son of the Antivan king (his illegitimate children are given the choice of joining the Crows or living a life of luxury in exile). He sometimes briefs his father on Crow business. Another Talon is a lyrium addict. At 28 another is an elven woman who is the youngest Talon in history - to her, the Crows are family. There are various romantic entanglements and associated jealousies between some of the Talons. Between them on the business side of things are various plots, intrigues, deals, maneuvers for position etc. Houses can gain and lose ground/standing. Some of the Talons have rules like don’t kill the help/servants, unless they’re guilty. Rarely do the Talons meet in 1 location but a summit was called by the First Talon because the Qunari invasion has left them with no choice. Without an army, Antiva’s only line of defense is the Crows. If the Qunari attack, the Talons need to be a united front. The Talons attend the summit to plot a course of action and discuss the security of Antiva. Two of the Talons have recently run a lot of contracts together in Qunari-occupied Ventus and seen the dangers of the Qun first hand. They believe that if they present a united front between their houses, it will be easier to sway the other houses into an alliance. The Crows are also worried that if Vints and Qunari wipe each other out it will be bad for their business.

They know the Qunari will not just be satisfied with Tevinter. The Qunari invaded northern Antiva 200 years ago and that part of the country still bears the scars of this. The Talon of Arainai is an elf woman called Guili. She doesn’t often stand up to the others because her House lost face when Zevran failed the contract on the HoF’s life. Her position is still precarious after a long bloody battle back to the top. Crow Houses are sometimes referred to as “families”, sounding mafia-esque. Talons are supposed to be untouchable but at the summit several of them are assassinated one after the other. Antivan Crows don’t run so they stay to solve the crime. One Crow trick is an influencer serum that causes a warm feeling in a person and makes them feel safe, that they can say or do anything. It turns out 2 of the other Talons were engaged in secret (kept secret from the First Talon) to make an alliance between their houses. The First Talon would have never approved of this because united they could have overruled her, and they didn’t want to go to war against the Qunari. Before houses, masks and tattoos Crows were monks near Treviso. They poisoned a duke who was terrorizing a village. They were a group of individuals who did what was needed to be done to protect the Antivan people. Over the years, they’ve lost sight of that. Now, it’s all about family and blood instead of being a claw working as one.

It turns out one of the Talons had plotted to kill the others at the summit. They catch him out before he can complete the lot and assume he did it for money. He says he didn’t and disparages that it’s always about money for the Crows now, when in the beginning they were protectors who fought for Antiva, for the people. He feels they’ve chosen profit over patriotism somewhere along the way. The Qunari approached him and said if he killed the other 7 Talons their invasion of Antiva would be peaceful and the Antivans could keep their way of life without submitting to the Qun. He believed them because he believes Qunari honorable. One of the Talons who saw Ventus says there was no honor there. The guilty party says he made the deal so it would be different here. The First Talon asserts he made the deal to be the only house left, so he wouldn’t have anymore annoying contract-sharing or territorial disputes. He says that under one Talon at least they could stop squabbling and get things done and that Crows are nothing more than glorified mercs now. One of the Talons who was in Ventus says they do have standards and that he’s beneath them. They kill him. (There is also a reference to a former ninth house that used to exist and no longer does due to the ruthless First Talon.)

Now with half her Talons dead, Antiva is more vulnerable than ever. The remaining Talons settle in to come up with a plan to protect Antiva, knowing that the Qunari invasion of Antiva is now not an ‘if’ but a ‘when’. They want to be ready for any eventuality. The Qunari have struck a mighty first blow killing so many Talons but failed to finish the job, which is a fatal error. The remaining Talons inform the heirs to the now-empty Talon positions of what’s occurred and hope they’ll join their cause. The remaining Talons resolve that the Qunari will regret this and to show all of Thedas why no one messes with the Antivan Crows.

Elsewhere, someone mysterious has contracted the Crows to kill a bunch of prominent Venatori, 9 so far. Some of the Venatori are scared, particularly of a notorious Crow known as “the Demon”, who has been doing a lot of these contracts. He’s the great Lucanis Dellamorte, grandson of the First Talon. His cousin Illario is also a Crow. Lucanis is the rumored favorite to be heir to his house, but he doesn’t want it. The Venatori say they won’t cower to foreign mercenaries like the Crows. It’s implied the mysterious Crow-hirer/anonymous client is connected to elves as they gave the cousins info about a magical secret passage inside a statue of a vhenadahl to help them on their way. The passage is lit with veilfire and guarded by an elf in a scarlet coat who seems to be a mage. Lucanis knows some things about demons and the supernatural, and can tell when the Veil is thin. He’s somewhat sympathetic to elves/the downtrodden and has a sense of justice/morals despite being a Crow and gruff. He releases a bunch of elven slaves on a job and gets them to safety, his cousin chiding him that Crows aren’t revolutionaries. Lucanis thinks death is his calling and doesn’t want to quit. He is going to kill a bunch of other Venatori, and enjoys killing racist evil blood-mage supremacists for top dollar, but they now know he has a heart and plot to exploit his weaknesses.

The Fifth and Seventh Talons first appeared in the comic Dragon Age: Deception.

The Lords of Fortune

A new addition to the lore, Lords “beholden to Fortune”. They are a famed Rivaini guild of treasure hunters, dungeoneers and glory-seekers - roguish daring lucky scoundrels that live thrilling lives essentially, a level above ordinary thieves. The guild contains members of different races and genders. Members of all genders are “Lords”. Indiana Jones-esque, they take jobs and travel all over the world stealing and adventuring, and “specialize in pulling gems from the eyes of statues” from places like lost temples, dealing with ancient curses and resurrected beasts along the way. They’re the best treasure hunters in the world and in Rivain stories are told of their exploits. For an added cost they lead and protect/guard the softer people who hire them to do so on the expeditions. They usually wear colorful sashes, capes, pants, shirts, belts, scarves, charms, gold jewelry, ancient coins, trinkets they’ve found and trophies of their exploits - this is the the right and privilege of any Lord of Fortune that lasts a year or two. This practise is described as “wearing their expertise”. They also do things like infiltrating buildings and retrieving artifacts from rich collectors or which were stolen. They do jobs for a cut or to sell onto others. Some seem to pickpocket and take contracts killing monsters. Sometimes they operate in pairs or crews. They seem to put stock in ‘spending’ luck and in what ‘hand of cards’ they think they’ve recently been dealt. It seems like they’re known for usually completing their jobs with a flair for the dramatic/causing clamor. Many individual Lords seem to have different specialties and how they do their jobs differs for all of them. Some Lords steal an artifact from Starkhaven to sell to Vaea. (the Inquisition therefore have contact with the LoFs) It’s a big red amulet with great healing properties. it also seems to have anti-aging effects. It doesn’t work on the dead though. It seems like people from other countries can also join the LoFs.

Named Lords are ‘Hollix’, Elim, Bharv, Herold and Mateo. ‘Hollix’ (a pseudonym) is genderfluid/nonbinary or similar and a master of disguise; clothes, makeup, wigs, vocal changes, different genders, even different species i.e. human, elf etc. They are a former circus acrobat and use a saber and smoke pellets. Bharv is a dwarf nearing retirement with 4 daughters, whose specialty is escapes and exit strategies. He lives on a farm in Rivain. His friend Herold was also a Lord. Herold was a friend of Vaea. A little girl Mizzy is remarked to act like a LoF in the making. Elim was a female elf with a gift for imitating accents, knowing 12 or more. Within the Lords she was a renowned specialist at things like lockpicking. Mateo is a ‘delver’, which seems to mean an expert in underground things. He has an appreciation for history and is described as a warrior. His weapon is a dao.

The aftermath of the Inquisition

After the Inquisition defeated Cory, “10,000″, a deliberately-inflated-to-be-alarming guess of how many soldiers, assassins, diplomats and others the Inquisitor had amassed, floated around. Nobility thought the Inquisition was a massive, destabilizing militia with allegiance to an ideal, not borders, and feared this. They were worried what this big force would become if controlled by a lesser hand. Sutherland and Co sometimes still carry out tasks relating to the Inquisition. Sutherland and Co were dispatched to Skyhold to deal with a demon that appeared there. Sutherland however suspects they were really sent there to fail and disappear during the effort; to confirm Skyhold was a problem and give officials license to permanently erase the Inquisition’s legacy. Sutherland and Co were perfect candidates for this because they’re loyal/true enough to be discreet but small enough to disappear. (That doesn’t happen though, they suceed).

For info on what the actual remains of the Inquisition have been and are currently doing, see the Solas post.

What became of Skyhold

Skyhold valley is abandoned now, spotted with the stones of dead fires of the many who once gathered there. The fortress itself was left only with a skeleton crew of caretakers, a permanent staff of 7. Ten other people were in the supply caravan. The main caretaker was carefully chosen, a Chantry brother with distant family and an unremarkable name, who welcomed long pilgrimages and repetitive but important work. After the Inquisition downsized or disbanded, Skyhold itself posed a unique problem. Too symbolic to be razed, too fortified to be left for just anyone to claim. It was eventually decided Skyhold would be shuttered, preserved but defanged, a distant beacon so all would remember the Inquisitor’s deeds. Many departing Inquisition recruits took a keepsake with them when they departed, to remember the place that so completely changed their lives. Officials promised the Inquisition would fade away. “If there was doubt, if lingering assets proved troublesome, fear and fighting over its legacy would resume. Skyhold had to be boring and safe.” It’s now set up almost like an exhibit, just with no visitors coming. Everything is monkish-ly clean, the remaining furniture is arranged like they’re in a display and people are still using them. What seems to be a commemorative plaque is put up commending the efforts of the Inquisition members both large and small, and wishing them well in the future.

Dorian, Mae and their efforts in Tevinter

Dorian’s House no longer has slaves and now only employs paid servants, a change he says he’s ashamed to have only made recently. Someone he met in the south, obviously Inky, changed his mind on the matter. He’s one of the few mages of his station to do this. Dorian and Mae are on the outs with most of the rest of the Magisterium because of their efforts to make it better/enact change. The state of the Magisterium makes Dorian raggedly depressed. He and Mae’s duty to their country that they feel means they have to be well-informed. Lately the foul political rumblings in the Magisterium mean they’ve had to spend all their time keeping their eyes on scoundrels. They are trying to win a few of them over. It’s been slow but they’re giving them a chance to prove they’re not complete fools. They also do things like posting flyers with rewards to get monster-hunters to kill monsters that are plaguing Minrathous. They’re so busy crusading for change that they don’t have time to hunt them themselves. Dorian and Mae want to show that not all Vints are heartless and don’t like the idea of bad things in their city. They hire a Lord of Fortune to kill a monster in the city. At one point House Pavus hired expert thieves to break into the Archon’s Palace but the thieves didn’t manage to succeed.

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We also get updates on what’s become of some minor chars and some insights into the backgrounds of some minor chars.

Give me a shout if you have any questions/desires for clarification/further stuff you wanna know.

#dragon age #dragon age 4 #the dread wolf rises #tevinter nights #bioware #tevinter nights spoilers #tevinter nights spoiler #spoilers #spoiler #video games #solas #mj meta

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rivalsforlife · 4 years

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I DIDNT KNOW YOU WERE DOING COMMENTARY hope it's not too late to ask for The Scene at the end of chapter 5 of the catch up game?? if no one else has asked?

It is never too late to ask!! Genuinely you could probably ask me six months from now and I’ll ramble on about all this, I’m generally down to talk about my writing all the time. (And I’m actually a little surprised nobody asked about The Scene yet... oh well haha)

First though: have you seen this art yet? If you haven’t you should. It was going around twitter again lately and I love it a lot so I wanted to advertise it while I had the chance.

Anyways, keeping under a “keep reading” here:

So. The Scene. First I’ll present my notes from the outline when I was trying to figure out this fic:

Miles lets his feelings slip, Phoenix doesn’t take it too well, they part on a kind of awkward note.

Somehow “kind of an awkward note” ended up being uhhh that!

Anyways before we get into this I want to say that I really did not think it would have that much of an emotional impact? I got a much bigger reaction than I thought and that’s around when people really started talking about it on the narumitsu discord and stuff, so I ended up for the rest of the week soooo stressed out that I’d accidentally gone in a completely different direction than I’d planned and set people’s expectations too high and they would be COMPLETELY DISAPPOINTED IN THE REST OF THE FIC but uh luckily that didn’t happen! I think. At least if anyone was super disappointed they didn’t tell me about it!

And it was probably partially that I am not very uhh good with emotions and also probably that I got pretty desensitized to my work but I genuinely did not think it was that bad until I saw Ro’s art and then went “ohhh suddenly I am consumed with so much guilt...” (and also doubted how in character this scene was. how can ANYONE say no to that face --)

Most critically though, this scene distracted everyone from whatever the hell was going on with the casefic earlier in the chapter, so overall I think it’s a success.

Sorry it’s taking a while to get to the actual scene, but I wrote a few drafts of this thing beforehand and modified it a lot trying to get it right. I needed it to be sufficiently dramatic but I didn’t want it to seem like... I was just adding it in there for extra conflict? Like you know sometimes you read stuff and you’re like “where the hell did this sudden argument come from” yeah. I wanted to avoid that if I could, so partially this was supported by the weight of chapter 4 to explain Phoenix’s reasons for the rejection and then chapter 6 is supposed to elaborate more, but I still needed this to stand fairly well on its own.

The overall theme of this chapter was “Opposites”, and again, here’s what I had in my fic notes:

I want to contrast how Phoenix sees Miles and how Miles sees Phoenix. Because they both kind of see each other as an amazing person while seeing themselves as failures. Maybe at the end Phoenix is kind of putting himself down and Miles argues about it and then they have a slight argument. Miles lets his feelings slip, Phoenix doesn’t take it too well, they part on a kind of awkward note.

I couldn’t really find a way to integrate this conversation in naturally, so I could only get Phoenix’s perspective in there a little bit. Originally Miles’ confession wasn’t supposed to be planned, just a spur of the moment in the middle of an argument where Phoenix kind of goes “I don’t understand why you keep hanging out with me, why are you spending so much time with me, I’m not struggling, I don’t need you worrying about me” and Miles interrupts with a “Because I love you, you idiot!” ... But I couldn’t get that to work because the buildup into the argument felt too abrupt.

Last little bit of something just before the argument (some of the dialogue here went into the chapter 4 dinner conversation instead):

Miles: (quietly) I’ve spent most of my life trying to climb higher in my career, in order to fight corruption as best I could. And I have, and every day my mission is growing closer to completion, or at least as much as it can. But after that… (staring at some kids’ toy) what’s left for me? I’ve taken a rather unconventional path through life. I’m starting to wonder about opportunities I’ve missed.

Phoenix: (jokingly) Is that some long-winded way of telling me you’re planning on settling down?

Miles: I’d never settle. But in some sense, I suppose so.

Phoenix: (stopping in his tracks) You’re kidding. L-Like, what, in a year or so I’m gonna walk in to your office one day and find you with a wife and kids?

Miles: (rolling his eyes) You do know that I’m gay, don’t you? And why would I keep them in my office? There’s no need to be so melodramatic, Wright.

Again couldn’t fit it in I just found it funny. ANYWAYS FINALLY MOVING AWAY FROM THE DRAFTS AND TO THE ACTUAL THING, I’ll skip ahead a bit to just before the confession:

“How long has it been since I came here?”

“I dunno… since before I got my badge back, probably.”

“That sounds about right.” Edgeworth sighed and leaned against Phoenix’s desk. “I’ve barely gotten the chance to see you, since you got your badge back and I took my new position. I’ve missed going up against you in court.”

“I don’t,” Phoenix teased, slipping his case notes into his desk drawer. “You’re a nightmare.”

“You’re one to talk.” The corners of Edgeworth’s eyes crinkled as he looked over at him. “You can be so infuriating, but I do like working with you. I had fun today.”

Phoenix raised an eyebrow. “Fun? You?”

“I suppose age has softened me up.”

“I didn’t think anything could soften you up.”

“You’d be surprised. I often have fun when I’m with you. I always…” He trailed off, averting his eyes and gripping his elbow. “I’ve been… thinking, a bit. On our earlier conversation.”

So basically... Miles got preeetty close to confessing during their dinner in chapter 4, but kinda backed out at the last moment, and he’s been agonizing over this ever since. Because the way he interpreted their conversation was sort of “We both want to move forward into a relationship but don’t know how to take the steps to do so”, whereas Phoenix interpreted more as a consensus that “We could probably start a relationship and there are feelings there but it wouldn’t really work out so we just won’t ever talk about it”.

And Miles throughout this fic assumed that Phoenix has been in love with him for a while and only holding back for Miles’ own sake, and waiting for Miles to signal that he’s actually ready to move into a romantic relationship. ... Which is very much not the case. What makes today different though is that Miles got to watch Phoenix solve mysteries, and I’m of the opinion that Miles considers Phoenix at his most attractive when he is uncovering the truth!! so Miles pretty much just saw him solve this case and go “I must kiss this man on the lips Right Now” but thought he should clear some things up before he did that.

which is good because if he just walked up to Phoenix and kissed him without preamble I’m pretty sure Phoenix would have died, so.

Something imperceptibly changed in the atmosphere. It made Phoenix’s heart race faster in anticipation. “Oh? Which one?”

“The one we had during the last dinner we shared.”

“O-Oh.” That had been weeks ago. Surely Phoenix had forgotten something.

“Everything has changed so much, over the course of my career, between us.” Edgeworth’s eyes flickered up to him briefly before settling back down on the desk. “I’ve never been afraid of moving forward, but this, I want…” He exhaled, shakily. “Give me a minute. This is… difficult.”

Phoenix kind of... knows, subconsciously, where this is going, but he’s trying to deny it until the last minute because he’s very unprepared and has no idea how to deal with this... which will become very clear by the end of the scene.

Miles is tricky to write in a confession scene because he can be kind of weird with emotions? Sometimes he’ll give these Grand Speeches about how much That Man means to him but at the same time he struggled a lot with talking about his feelings during the trilogy and I think he’d still struggle with it now. Especially something as raw and vulnerable as a love confession.

And Miles is also someone who is, at least by the Investigations duology, determined to pursue what is Right and what is the Truth without any sort of hesitation. However pursuing Wright is different. (insert horrible forced laugh track)

“W-Well, don’t strain yourself,” Phoenix insisted. “We can talk another day. I-It’s getting late, after all, we should ��”

“We should stop dancing around the issue.” Edgeworth’s eyes snapped up and locked with Phoenix’s, pinning him in place. “Don’t go easy on me now, of all times.”

oh man I have to admit I got really into Persona 5 Royal for like a few weeks around the time I was writing this and that “don’t go easy on me now of all times” is looosely inspired by a similar line in there that’s like “do you think I’d be happy with being shown mercy now, of all times?” because although it’s a different dynamic than narumitsu I was uh. intrigued.

... sorry it’s so vague I wanted to avoid spoilers anyways, moving on,

Phoenix’s mouth ran dry. Edgeworth couldn’t possibly be planning to —

“Everything has changed between us,” continued Edgeworth. “I want things to — to continue to change, I-I want to be closer, is—” He sucked a breath in through his teeth “— is it not obvious?”

Hadn’t they agreed, in that way they could agree without saying a word, that they were never going to talk about this?

Phoenix broke his gaze. “No. It’s not. I— I don’t want to argue with you. It’s late.”

Pretty much same as previous notes: Phoenix in extreme denial that this is actually happening whereas Miles is just trying to force it all out.

Phoenix is kind of trying to talk Miles down from confessing; Miles is sort of interpreting it as “Wright isn’t going to let me get away with not actually saying this so I need to be more direct.”

I’m sure that later when Miles is curled up on his bed wondering where he went wrong he’ll think of that :)

“Phoenix.”

The use of his first name forced Phoenix to look up again.

Edgeworth stared at him for a long time. There was something impossible swimming just under the surface of his grey eyes.

“Phoenix Wright,” he said. “I am in love with you.”

HE DID IT!! He’s so brave I’m sure that nothing can go wrong!!

Gossip was one thing. Lingering touches and stolen glances, Phoenix could deal with those. The knowledge that Edgeworth was interested in him in a not-so-platonic way… that was more than enough.

This, hearing Edgeworth say the words out loud, was another thing entirely. Even if Phoenix already knew. Nothing could have prepared him for — for whatever this was, for Edgeworth, looking at him all open and vulnerable, and — and saying —

“Wh… What…?”

Edgeworth tilted his head slightly to the side, causing his bangs to fall into his face. “Surely you’ve figured it out already?”

“I-I don’t understand…”

At first there was a line right after “Even if Phoenix already knew” that was “Even if he felt the same”, but then I decided to make it so Phoenix can’t even admit his feelings to himself, so I cut that one out.

Anyways this is shocking to Phoenix partially because of Denial but also because he didn’t expect Miles to actually come out and say something like this. He’s used to Miles being closed off with his emotions and doesn’t think him the type to ever directly acknowledge them, so it’s got him totally off guard, too. It’s unpredictable for someone who is supposed to know Miles so well so it’s very unnerving for him.

“I… I think you are incredible,” said Edgeworth. “Your single-minded dedication to truth and justice. Your compassion. Your mercy. The way you… brought light, brought life, back into my world. You can be so frustrating, and stubborn, but that’s part of why I have always admired you so much.” The corners of his eyes softened. “You saved me a thousand times over, and I want to spend the rest of my life by your side… however you want me.”

Miles generally people go on at least one date before proposing marriage but okay.

One thing I find interesting about Miles as a character is that he’s very much an all-or-nothing kind of person... he doesn’t ever really half-ass things and he doesn’t know how to do things gradually haha. He won’t allow the truth to be covered in darkness for even a moment even if it makes things easier for him in the long run. Saying “I think you’re great, maybe we should go on a few dates and see how things end up?” is probably the SENSIBLE thing to say, but Miles puts 100% of himself into everything that he does post-character development; and he’s secure enough in his relationship with Phoenix that he doesn’t really feel the need to test the waters. Plus Miles is allergic to uncertainty, so by the time he confesses he’d need to be absolutely certain that he loved Phoenix Wright and was prepared to pretty much go all in with him.

after all Phoenix feels the same way right!!

Phoenix stared. His heartbeat was reverberating in his ears. “I don’t know what to say. … Me.”

“Who else?”

“Who — a-anyone else. God, Edgeworth, what even is that shit, about me being i-intelligent, and dedicated, and compassionate, and — and — incredible, geez, I’m a wreck! I—” His voice wavered into a fit of near hysteria. “The only reason I’ve gotten this far is ‘cause I’ve always had amazing people by my side, and — and once they’re gone I’m back to whatever I usually am, I-I only have this one suit, I still haven’t got my freaking driver’s license, I don’t think I’ve eaten anything but instant meals in a month—”

(And he looked to Edgeworth, desperately, but Edgeworth was still gazing at him, expression gentle, gentle yet unyielding, not taking back his words or expressing an ounce of regret — why wasn’t he changing his mind —)

“You’re describing yourself more than me,” said Phoenix weakly. “Really, I’m not — I’m not like that, okay, I’m not…” He forced himself to take a deep breath. “Why are you telling me this?”

This is the one part that stayed consistent throughout all drafts of this scene haha. Some of it is echoes from what Godot told him back in Bridge to the Turnabout about him always needing someone to swoop in at the last minute to the rescue; others are sort of a loose refence to his behaviour during the beginning of RFTA and Reunion and Turnabout where he couldn’t really function without Maya there to look after.

This part sort of ties more into that objective I had with this chapter of contrasting how they see themselves; they both see each other as incredible people, because they don’t really get to see inside each other and see how much of a wreck they feel.

Also the very first sort of script of this confession had Phoenix saying “I thought you knew me better than this!” but that just seemed way too cruel for this haha.

“I know that I… that I have difficulty with these things,” said Edgeworth, fingers gripping the edge of the desk. “I’ve never been the most open of people and we’ve — we’ve always been so distant, for so long. I wasn’t there for you when I should have been, and I want that to change. Because, ever since we met… you’ve been such a major part of my life. I never thought I would live to be older than my father. I never thought I would be happy with myself. But you, you came into my life, and you changed all that.”

(That wasn’t you,) a voice in Phoenix’s heart whispered. (You only started it. The rest was all him.)

“But I don’t want to be satisfied with what I have right now. I still want more. There’s still a part of life I want to explore, and… I want to do it with you.”

(He’s always been fine without you. One day he’s going to realize it too, and then…)

“I’m tired of hiding my emotions and being too afraid to upset the status quo when it comes to relationships. I refuse to be scared of that anymore.”

(Why isn’t he scared, too?)

ugh this was the hardest part to write I think...? Trying to figure out a way to get Phoenix’s internal feelings across where it doesn’t come out of nowhere. I settled with a lot of internal thoughts that are just like... self-loathing, pretty much.

Meanwhile Miles has prepared this whole emotional monologue that Phoenix is only half listening to, basically about what a huge impact Phoenix has had in his life and how he’s sort of... now that he’s presumably made large steps to fixing the justice system he’s turning to more personal goals in life, and one of those goals is spending his life with Phoenix, if he can be brave enough to do it.

Phoenix isn’t paying attention though because he’s too busy panicking...

“Most of all, I… I couldn’t hide anything from you for long. I’d trust you with the world. You’re my equal, and my opposite.” Something resembling a shaky smile crossed Edgeworth’s face. “And I love you.”

me shoving the “theme of the day” in there awkwardly

But he smiles!! This is one of the rare occasions where Miles kind of does smile... there’s a lot of “almost-smile”s or brief smiles and Miles is scared out of his wits here but he’s happy. he finally got that off his chest. he was brave and he told Phoenix how he felt and they’ll be so, so happy together, nothing can possibly go wrong,

The words knocked out any breath Phoenix had managed to regain. His skin suddenly felt cold and clammy, and he was faced with vertigo more intense than standing on rooftops. What was happening to him?

There was something he was supposed to say to this. He should react to this normally. His mouth was drier than a desert. His tongue felt unsightly and awkward in his mouth.

“I shouldn’t have to tell you that if I have somehow misinterpreted, I won’t mention this again.” Unease and uncertainty flickered behind Edgeworth’s eyes. “And I would never be upset, as long as you tell me the truth. I want to take the next steps of my life with you. … Do you feel the same way?”

oh yeah this part was a little tricky too. Pretty much Phoenix is on the verge of a full-blown panic attack and cannot think of a response, even a nice polite rejection... and finally Miles starts realizing that something’s off, because before he was just running on adrenaline to try and get his feelings out that he didn’t stop to examine Phoenix’s reactions, otherwise he would’ve started overthinking and psyched himself out. But now that he got it out and seeing Phoenix pretty much in shock he’s starting to worry he’d made a mistake.

Also “unease and uncertainty” is definitely an “unnecessary feelings” reference because I’m shameless.

Yes, Phoenix wanted to say, yes, I do, and say what he felt, what he wanted. But the words wouldn’t come.

Why couldn’t he say it? It should be easy. If he truly wanted this, it should be as easy as breathing.

His vision swam with pink butterflies, he ran his tongue over the scars in his mouth, his breath caught jagged on the edges of chains —

Aaaand if either one of them had the magatama right now there would be the psyche-locks! I was gonna elaborate on this a lot but this is so far waaay longer than I intended so I’ll spare you and give a brief summary.

Essentially there are three locks. I wrote them as sort of representing each issue that Phoenix needs to acknowledge for them to break -- not necessarily fix, because that would be a super tricky thing, but acknowledging they’re there is a start. They’re pretty much “Trust”, “Abandonment”, and “Vulnerability”. Later I realized those issues are pretty much tied up in each other so instead I just made it so that each one is set by a traumatic event, and then acknowledging those events is what breaks them.

The first is an obvious “Dahlia and Iris really screwed up Phoenix’s ability to trust a partner romantically”. I love Iris but she really did mess him up as well. Phoenix kind of convinced himself he’s over this issue now since Iris was a good person! but really he’s still messed up about it. (And that’s where the butterflies + scars in his mouth sort of come from). Talking to Iris and acknowledging that he’s still hurting over it is what breaks this one.

The second is more directly related to all the times Miles himself has abandoned him particularly throughout the series. Some of the hurt when Miles prosecuted him in Turnabout Sisters, and definitely a lot regarding “Prosecutor Miles Edgeworth Chooses Death”, it’s pretty much him being scared to get /too/ attached to Miles because he fears Miles might abandon him again. This one breaks in chapter 7 when he has the whole realization that Miles might die and leave him regardless, and acknowledges how afraid he is of Miles leaving again.

And the last is more of acknowledging his need to be needed by people and help people but they move on without him and not don’t really him in their lives. This built up more gradually... with littler things like Apollo leaving the Agency and Maya not being around as much and Trucy moving out. Neither of these are Big Bad Traumatic Events like the other two but it’s still an issue Phoenix has that he needs to acknowledge. Trucy’s letter breaks this one by telling him he’s never going to be alone and they all love him and are there for him. And that’s why right after reading the letter he can tell Miles that he loves him.

So that’s that. Moving back to the actual story now...

“Phoenix?”

Edgeworth still stood so close, too close, and when Phoenix breathed his senses were assaulted by the scent of his cologne and — and he was too close, and his words were too much, Edgeworth couldn’t be in love with him. Attracted, sure, but love — how could he so easily say love?

This wasn’t like Edgeworth. This wasn’t how things were before, this wasn’t how things had always been, every time things changed too fast something would go wrong, every time things changed too fast Edgeworth would leave again —

(— and right now Edgeworth’s body was coiled tight with tension, like a spring, ready to take off at any sudden movement —)

— and Phoenix couldn’t say a word.

Fairly self-explanatory I think: basically acknowledging that fear that Miles is going to leave again.

Phoenix was standing on the edge of a turnabout. Somewhere he’d have to take the plunge for victory, for the truth. He’d never shied from them before. He’d always accepted the risks. And they’d (almost always) paid off.

But something had Phoenix in a vice. Dark chains that wrapped around his chest and constricted his lungs. Something that would drown him if he took the plunge. Something that whispered that he could not risk this, his heart and his life in one. There was too much to lose. It was all too much.

That little (almost always) there is referencing that one time he presented the critical case-changing evidence and got disbarred for it; his disbarment messed him up pretty bad too, I guess it’d fit in the category of the third psyche-lock.

And of course the second paragraph references the psyche-locks more directly before they actually show up.

The words came. They weren’t the ones he wanted.

“No,” said Phoenix. “No, I don’t.”

The rattling in Phoenix’s head cut out. Silence fell over the room.

Pretty much once Phoenix stops pressing the issue the psyche-locks stop shaking. I imagine they’re a pretty terrible thing to break directly; he can’t do it on his own like this.

“... I see,” said Edgeworth, and something snapped shut, drew tight, rigid, back to a statue. “I thought… nevermind.”

Miles kind of draws back into himself all tightly-controlled, less open than before, because that really hurt him a lot. He’d probably prefer it than Phoenix being all evasive and sort of reassuring because he prefers people just cut straight to the facts, but that was direct even for him.

And of course he thought that Phoenix did feel that way about him. He was certain of it. So hearing Phoenix didn’t and he was completely wrong is... not good.

He’d gone so still. At the sight of it, whatever spell was holding Phoenix in its grasp broke, and he came back to reality — this wasn’t right, this wasn’t good, he had to fix this, somehow, bring things back to the way they were, “Edgeworth—”

And the sight of Miles completely freezing up and closing himself off is enough to break Phoenix free of the initial panic, because he does care a lot about Miles, and seeing him withdraw worries him.

“It’s getting late,” said Edgeworth, and only someone as experienced as Phoenix could detect the waver in his voice. “Thank you for being honest with me, Wright. I’ll talk to you later.”

The remark stung worse than a knife would, he couldn’t let it end like this. “I—”

The office door shut, none too gently. Phoenix was alone.

“... I’m sorry.”

That “thank you for being honest with me” wasn’t SUPPOSED to be a jab, of course, because Miles would prefer that Phoenix was honest than lie to him. But Phoenix did lie and that’s what bothers Phoenix the most throughout the next couple of chapters; they both value the truth so highly that lying to each other is inconceivable.

And Miles probably should have stuck around for a bit and heard Phoenix out and maybe Phoenix could have managed a half-decent explanation of “okay I don’t know what that was but this was very sudden and I’m panicking, can you give me time to process?” but if Miles stayed for much longer he probably would have started breaking down and that’s the last thing he wants to do right now, especially in front of Phoenix, so he left as soon as possible.

I think he managed to repress enough that he could get home safely, but the moment he crossed the threshold into privacy he probably had himself a good cry... curled up on the couch and watched some Steel Samurai with a tub of ice cream... but he was pretty emotionally devastated by this. It took a lot of effort for him to open up and be honest about his feelings so just being shut down like that... hurt a lot. He’d never admit it though.

anyways I also have this short bit of writing I posted a while back about Miles actually getting a hug after all this, because he really needs one.

And that’s the scene!! I think I said more than enough so I’ll end it here haha.

#dvd commentary meme #the catch-up game #this one got SUPER long I'm SO sorry #asks

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