#sortinghatchats

[wisteria-lodge]

Sorting Gaston

Up until now, all the Disney villains in my little project been criminals, loners, weirdos, or some combination of all three. Gaston is notable for being none of those things. He is a popular community leader, extremely Establishment, always surrounded by people. He’s also our first explicitly sexist villain (“It’s not right for a woman to read. Soon she’ll start getting ideas and… thinking.”) Belle is, of course, disgusted by this. And that’s the problem. The question here is why has Belle specifically gotten under Gaston’s skin so badly that he has to marry her… when he probably could’ve married all three of his blonde groupies at the same time. Like... Belle isn’t THAT much more beautiful. 

At first I thought it could be an insecurity thing… but... Gaston isn’t insecure. So I think it’s more ideological than that. Belle is a rebel who mocks and rejects Gaston's idea of an ideal community, and that is incredibly disturbing, and threatening to him. In kind of a twisted way, the best way to deal with this is to marry Belle and you know - slot her into the established system. Bring her in line. Gaston handles “crazy old Maurice” the same way, by getting corrupt authority to throw him in the insane asylum. 

I separated this out from my other, goofier Disney villain sorting, because when talking about Gaston I really wanted to bring up Howard Ashman, the creative force behind the film, who died of AIDS before it was finished. And it’s easy to see some of his experience in the ‘monstrous,’ ‘unlovable,’ shunned Beast, and the rule-breaking “peculiar” Belle who just wants out. Ashman drops lyrics like “We don't like / What we don't understand / In fact it scares us” during Gaston’s villain song, and that’s some pretty real stuff. Andreas Deja, who designed and animated Gaston, is also gay, and I think it’s so interesting that Gaston’s design went from REALLY queer coded at the beginning of production.

To the much *straighter* macho outdoorsman we have today. 

(also I want to throw in this amazing drawing I found on Andreas Deja’s website, where he’s shipping Gaston with another character he designed/animated.) 

But I’m still slotting Gaston into my system here, and for all those reasons - the community, the Establishment - I want to say that he is a Badger primary villain, and goes hard with Badger primary dehumanization in the way he interacts with Maurice and the Beast. He’s also a Lion secondary. Round up the troops, give them a rousing speech, charge in at the head of the forces. “Surprise Wedding” is also a comically Lion secondary beat. It’s actually kind of fun that he is a Badger Lion, since that is typically the Hero sorting. That’s the point of Gaston. He looks good. He looks like the hero at first… and then you think about him for five seconds.  

#gaston #beauty and the beast #disney stuff #howard ashman #andreas deja #shc #sortinghatchats

[the-phoenix-heart]

Sorting Hat Chats - A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes

Heeeey I'm back again. Hunger Games is one of my recent hyperfixations, so I'm doing a sorting of the latest book/film. I'll only be sorting Coriolanus Snow and Lucy-Gray Baird in this post. And Dr. Gaul oops.

An explanation of the system I am using can be found here. (Credit: @wisteria-lodge )

SPOILERS FOR A BALLAD OF SONGBIRDS AND SNAKES BOOK AND FILM

LUCY-GRAY BAIRD is a thriving, healthy Snake secondary through and through. She loves performing, she loves playing coy, and she clearly relishes in getting one up on her enemies. This is a woman who turn her death sentence into a concert. Her plan to defeat Reaper, someone larger and deadlier than her, is to piss him off and give him the run around until he dies of exhaustion (or drinks from a poisoned puddle). To get one up on Mayfair when her name is called Lucy-Gray puts a snake in her dress to freak her out and subsequently humiliate her on live TV. No punches held back.

She's described by her actress as "a performer in a hunt," and she is. She always gives off the impression that she is always acting and always authentic in every moment. Snow certainly can never tell if she's lying or not and for all his faults he is smart.

CORIOLANUS SNOW meanwhile is a Bird secondary (I know, oh the irony) and the two secondaries slot in well together. In ABOSAS we see how he is always calculating in every interaction how he can leverage this for the most gain. He wears a carefully manufactured mask playing up whatever trait he has to to get what he wants from the person he is talking to. That's the Actor Bird in him, he can't just become someone like Lucy-Gray can. Which is why Snow works so well as a mentor for her. He can make all the plans he wants and give her every advantage to win, and she can immediately go along with it without skipping a beat.

We also see his Bird secondary on full display when he starts to come into power. He immediately starts making plans for the 11th Hunger Games when he comes back to the Capitol. His signature method for killing people is poison, and in sixty years that never changes. It's a risky plan that always works so why would he change it? And of course we know after he becomes president just how much effort he puts into controlling Katniss with more and more plans.

As for their primaries, well, that's why they constantly misunderstand each other. Coriolanus and Lucy-Gray look at each other and they both see a Snake primary, but those aren't their true sortings. Lucy-Gray is wearing a Snake primary model, and Coriolanus is wearing a Snake primary performance, not even a model.

Lucy-Gray loves the Covey, but at the end of the day when Mayor Lipp wants her dead Lucy-Gray doesn't need to think twice about running away. She knows they can take care of themselves, and she values her own freedom above anything else. It's apparent also in how she treats Billy-Taupe. She loved him once, but the moment he cheated on her she immediately cut him out of her life and doesn't seem to regret that decision. "Without trust you might as well be dead to me."

Lucy-Gray is a Lion primary, and like her secondary it's healthy. Her mantra is "Nothing you can take from me was ever worth keeping." She's another example of the Jack Sparrow style of Lion primary, the Fae lion. Freedom is good and control is bad. It's also why when she leaves Snow she makes it a whole production where she sings him "The Hanging Tree" and runs around him as a way to fuck with him. She knows that Corio isn't the man she thought he was and she wants to show him she knows.

Lucy-Gray is the Yin to Katniss's Yang. Katniss is a famous Snake Lion, and Lucy-Gray is the inverse of that, a Lion Snake. That quote about Lucy-Gray being a performer in a hunt is followed by Katniss being "a hunter in a performance." The revolution in a small way begins with Lucy-Gray and is ended by Katniss. Lucy-Gray loves freedom before all else, and that means she is never going to fight the Capitol like Katniss would, "it's too early for [K]atniss," she says. But Katniss is that Snake primary who loves so deeply and devastatingly that of COURSE she would end up fighting the Capitol.

But I think Lucy-Gray likes Snake primaries. I think she likes how much the value freedom, but also the way they value their people. That's what she sees when she sees Snow, a man who will do anything to protect the people he loves over himself. But that's just a performance Snow puts on, because he knows that looks much more nobler than what he actually is.

Snow actually primary matches Lucy-Gray. When we see him he's a young lion. The impression I get from Snow is entitlement. He thinks because of the way he was born that he just inherently deserves to have what is owed to him. But after it's found out that he cheated to help Lucy-Gray win, he is stripped of what little he had and sent to be a peacekeeper. He doesn't know what he wants anymore, because he can't have what he truly wants, so he convinces himself what he wants is Lucy-Gray. Except, the moment he realizes he can absolutely still get that power he turns on her immediately.

His goals never change, in the end Snow does indeed land on top, as he achieves those goals. He becomes president, and then it becomes all about maintaining power and control. And that's the real crux of his Lion primary. Like Lucy-Gray he is a Fae Lion, but on the opposite end of the spectrum. Power and control are good, and he should have that over everyone else in the world. I also see his primary in his method of choice for killing people. He willingly poisons himself so no one catches on, that is some lion devotion to his cause of control.

But, despite him trying to appear completely composed at all times, you can see that very emotional Lion primary underneath it all. I mean, he's clearly obsessed with screwing over Katniss's life in particular because he sees both Lucy-Gray and Sejanus in her. Meanwhile everything he does that fucks with Peeta is to fuck with her, despite the fact that he was also part of that suicide threat. He doesn't like that emotional Lion I think. What he wants is to maintain control over everything, and the appear as though he has this carefully constructed worldview/ideology. He has these intelligent/convincing arguments on the power of hope and the purpose of the games. It can look very Bird to people, and I think it is. DR. GAUL is absolutely a Double Bird Mad Scientist, and I think Snow adopted a Bird primary model based off of hers.

So...

Lucy-Gray Baird - Lion primary, Snake model/Snake secondary

Coriolanus Snow - Lion primary, Bird model and Snake performance/Bird secondary

Dr. Gaul - Bird primary/Bird secondary

#lucy-gray and snow to me are so effective as a couple because they are doomed #they thought they loved each other because they saw themselves in the other #but at the end of the day corio only values control and lucy-gray values freedom above all else #sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #lucy gray baird #coriolanus snow #lion snake #lion bird #the hunger games #a ballad of songbirds and snakes #abosas #thg

[sortinghatchats]

OFFICIAL SORTINGHATCHATS QUIZ V2.0

Just uploaded a new version of the Official Sortinghatchats Quiz!

This new version includes new questions! Less bugs! A way to save your progress and come back later!

For those of you unfamiliar with our sortinghatchats system, we sort in two ways here:

Primaries: WHY you do what you do (morals, motivations, beliefs)

Lions are Idealist - Felt - Internal Primaries

Badgers are Loyalist - Felt - External Primaries

Birds are Idealist - Built - External Primaries

Snakes are Loyalist - Built - Internal Primaries

Secondaries: HOW you do what you do (methods, means, behaviors)

Lions are Solid - Improvisational - Inspirational Secondaries

Badgers are Fluid - Constructed - Inspirational Secondaries

Birds are Solid - Constructed - Situational Secondaries

Snakes are Fluid - Improvisational - Situational Secondaries

Neither your Primary or your Secondary is the more important sorting-- that's just the order we write them in (Primary/Secondary). Both WHY and HOW are important!

I lost my original source code for this quiz, so this involved rebuilding it from scratch! The sortinghatchats discord & my patient friends have been amazing in assisting me with balancing this quiz & also bug-testing it. I'd be thrilled if you checked it out!

#sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #quiz #ink

[air-in-words]

Anastasia: SortingHatChats

Hey, guys, I back now.

Anastasia time.

So, as a DISCLAIMER: THIS FILM IS A WORK OF FICTION. I highly recommend looking into the actual history behind the film if you're interested!

Here we go!

(I seem to recall there being a sorting already posted of Anastasia, but I remember disagreeing with most of it? Absolutely no offense meant to whoever originally posted it! These are just my two cents!)

ANASTASIA/ANYA

BADGER PRIMARY

Anya's entire storyline revolves around the ideas of "family," "home," and "belonging." Not just her own, personal family (which would be Snake,) not necessarily the home she remembers being born into (as far as she knows, she's an orphan,) and not only her own state of belonging. She deals in the concept of these things as though they were basic necessities: everyone should want them, and she wants them because everyone needs them in order to be whole. This is truth to her, full stop.

Anya: "Do you think you're gonna miss it?"

Dimitri: "Miss what, your talking?

Anya: "No! Russia."

Dimitri: "Nope."

Anya: "But it was your home!"

Dimitri: It was a place I once lived. End of story."

Anya: "Well, then you must plan on making Paris your true home."

Dimitri: "What is it with you and homes?!"

Anya: "Well, for one thing, it's something that every normal person wants!"

This is not a belief system, nor is it a conclusion she's come to. It's something that is such a part of her make up as a human being, that to imagine that another person doesn't care about the concept of a "true home" or "true community" is downright disturbing to her. Her desire for "home, love, family" is not her trying to seek out individuals she already knows, but to find the space she came from, filled with strangers she's never met, but who she believes will accept her through the power of community. It reads very animated Hercules, often dreaming of a far off place where a voice keeps saying, THIS is where I'm meant to be. Badger Primaries love the idea of having a secret family they've never met that will swoop in and carry them away, loving them unconditionally, when the world immediately around them has been so cruel. Lonely Badger Primaries are the perfect characters to fall in love with the idea of being long lost royalty. The main character arc Anya goes through is learning that family is not just the people who gave birth to you: Found family is not only just as powerful, but can become even moreso over time. This is the same moral the animated Hercules learns! Belonging and community is created and watered like a garden: If you keep searching for your perfect, idealized community, you might miss the one forming right before your eyes.

LION SECONDARY

It doesn't take long to pin Anya as a rather loud Lion Secondary. She is unafraid to voice her opinions, and often does so in a blunt and unashamed way. SShe absolutely DESPISES lying, and she is the first to take the easiest, most straight forward way out.

Dimitri: (trying to detach a traincar after breaking multiple tools) "COME ON, there's gotta be something in there better than this!!"

Anya: (wordlessly hands Dimitri a stick of lit dynamite)

Dimitri: "That'll work!"

What this movie actual shows is an interesting, not as often explored aspect of the Badger Lion, which is how the brash and straightforward nature of the Lion Secondary can work against the desires of the Badger Primary. Anya longs for nothing more than home and community, but often inadvertently (and not so inadvertently) alienates those around her with her cutting phrasing. It takes a more grounded, good listener like Vlad to see past Anya's brashness almost immediately, understanding the intentions behind her bravado.

Vlad: "I see an engaging and fiery young woman, who on a number of occasions has shown a regal command equal to any royal in the world!"

DIMITRI

SNAKE PRIMARY (Initially Burnt)

Dimitri's storyline is a bit deeper than many people might initially realize. What we're looking at is a Snake Primary who, at a very young age, tried to save one of their People (the Princess Anastasia, for whom he is implied to have either a childhood friendship with or just a faraway crush,) and failed, horribly. In fact, they failed to the point that they believe they are at least partially to blame for the death of that Person. That's about as deep and dark of a hole as a Snake Primary can fall into, so the Snake Primary will, naturally, Burn and find new, non-Person things to fill that void. Namely, recognition and fortune.

Dimitri: "Imagine the reward her dear old grandmama will pay!"

Of course,this could point to Glory Hound Lion, just as easily. If not for his Snake Primary sneaking in at every possible moment. The line following that one above is:

Dimitri: "Who else could pull it off but you and me?"

The "you" in question being Vlad, the only other Person Dimitri has allowed in (and by "allowed in," I always assumed got so tired of Vlad actively FORCING HIMSELF into Dimitri's life that he acquiesced and decided to just let him stay.) But, Dimitri's obsession with the Princess Anastasia continues, against all odds. His latest con? Directly Princess Anastasia related. Is it enough for the woman they hire to play her be "good enough?" NO. She has to be PERFECT. They hold AUDITIONS, and Dimitri is the perfect person to be on the board, because Dimitri still knows her intimately well, even after all these years. Such as hum recognizing Anastasia's face in Anya's right from the start. Thus, comes Dimitri's initial inner turmoil in regards to Anya: Are his feelings just projection? Is he attracted to her JUST because she looks like Anastasia? Is he ACTUALLY that obsessed? All those questions become moot when Anya is revealed to truly be Anastasia, though Dimitri finds himself where he was as a boy. From this point on in the movie, pretty much every motivation/choice Dimitri makes revolves around the fact that Anya IS Anastasia, and that he is going to give her what she wants and deserves, no matter what it takes. Even if that means keeping himself away from her romantically. His character arc revolves around forgiving himself for what he perceived as a dire mistake against one of his People, which is a ROUGH arc for a Snake to go through.

Dimitri: "Paris holds the key to her past. Yes, Princess, I've found you at last! No more pretend. You'll be gone, that's the end..."

SNAKE SECONDARY

Dimitri is actually quite a good con, all things considered. He manages to trick Anya into thinking they have train tickets when they DEFINITELY do not, and he keeps the reward under wraps for the entirety of their trip. Not just that, but dodging around obstacles instead of facing them head on is his most natural state. As a child, he is seen sneaking out of the kitchens (where be belongs) and automatically offering the servants' quarters as a means of escape, which is extremely clever and resourceful. Dimitri tries to charm and placate Anya at every turn, trying to keep her naturally explosive personality under wraps.

Anya: "The baggage car...? There wouldn't be anything wrong with our papers now, would there, maestro..?"

Dimitri: "Of course not, Your Grace! It's just that I hate to see you forced to mingle with all those commoners..."

But, we spend most of the film seeing Dimitri forced out of his comfort zone by both the situation and Anya's combative Lion Secondary, so he's often seen conspiratorially complaining to Vlad while in his Neutral State or just outright losing his temper and yelling. But, this never comes first, and his plans and plots are always somewhat circumventing. During the train derailment, his plans are to jump off, disconnect the train cars, and just wait until the train coasts to a stop. All pretty passive/out of the box thinking. When he IS shown trying to face someone head on, he is always unsuccessful: Trying to fight for Anastasia during the siege only to be immediately knocked out, trying to take on Rasputin directly and being tossed aside pretty easily. Comparatively, Anya/Anastasia is shown to be successful when she is upfront and combative: Getting away from Rasputin as a child by kicking him in the face, ultimately defeating Rasputin by straight up smashing his reliquary.

VLAD

LION PRIMARY

Vlad is a pretty classic Paragon Lion Primary. He wants to do what is Good and Right and doesn't what is Bad and Wrong. For what reason would he wind up as a con artist as a Paragon Lion, though? Even for Paragon Lions, what is Good and Right to THEM can go against what the collective believes is good and right.

Vlad: "That's what I hate about this government. Everything is in red!"

Yes, the above line is also meant to be a coded message for Dimitri, but Vlad thinks the government has overstepped his moral boundaries and has chosen to step outside the usual bounds to follow his own morals. Part of those morals involve guiding those he believes are lost, thus, his "adoption" of Dimitri, a very lost young man with little direction. He tries to act as Dimitri's "moral compass" until Dimitri finds his own direction again. He does the same for Anya when she comes into their group, trying to lead her towards the possibility of finding her home, while gently guiding her away from focusing on her "past."

Vlad: "There is nothing left for you back there, my dear. Everything is in Paris."

He stands up for what he believes in, and inserts himself constantly when he believes Dimitri is wrong. Letting him know when he's "walking away too soon" or when he "has to talk to her" even if she's a Princess and Dimitri's a Kitchen Boy.

BADGER SECONDARY

Vlad is one of the kindest, most lovingly genuine characters I've encountered in fiction, and I mean with that with all my heart. He is consistently gentle and understanding with the people he comes across, and is always even-tempered and fair. Compare Vlad and Dimitri's reactions to finding Anya skulking around their home:

Dimitri: (shouting, from across the room) "HEY! What are you doing in here?! HEY! STOP!"

Vlad: (coming in at a light jog, holding up his hand politely) "Excuse me, child!"

Vlad always assumes the best from whomever he's interacting with, and is excellent at getting to the root of what's bothering a person. He actively tries to make everyone in his company comfortable, and will often make soft jokes or observations in an attempt to lighten the mood. His Lion Primary makes him unable to entirely give in when he knows what's going on is wrong, but his Badger Secondary gives him the skills to broach those uncomfortable topics with grace and eloquence.

Vlad: (gives Dimitri the most fatherly, loving hug in all of animation) "Ahhh, my boy... you are making a mistake."

TL;DR

Anya/Anastasia: Badger Lion

Dimitri: Double Snake

Vlad: Lion Badger

And, there we go! Anastasia was one of my absolute FAVORITE movies as a child, so I've really enjoyed getting an opportunity to sort them! Let me know your thoughts! :)

#sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats #shc #anastasia movie #anya anastasia #dimitri anastasia #vlad anastasia #dimitri x anya #anya x dimitri #badger primary #lion secondary #snake primary #snake secondary #lion primary #badger secondary #badger lion #double snake #lion badger

[liltalle]

Sorting Hat Chats - Nimona

@sevilemar got me to watch the wonderful new movie Nimona. I'm very excited about it, and I thought I'd try my hand at sorting the main characters, since I haven't seen that done yet. Here are the basic of the system I'm using.

Spoilers below the cut:

This is a very Snake Primary movie overall, so I'm going to start with our most obvious Snake Primaries and work from there.

The titular Nimona is a Snake primary. In her flashback, we see her seeking connection with all the different animals, but it only works when she finds Gloreth. And then Gloreth is her PERSON, they're in love, it's adorable, and then, the most heartbreaking thing that's ever happened to her, Gloreth betrays her. And thus her Snake primary burns. She doesn't connect with anyone else (we might assume) for the next thousand years, and tho she's self-confident and self-sufficient, she admits that the hatred from others makes it hard for her to value herself. Then she hears about Ballister, and she gets very excited, because here's, finally, a potential kindred spirit. She takes Ballister to be the classic burnt Snake/Bird villain archetype, wanting to take revenge on the world that rejected him, and is disappointed when that's not quite him (I'll elaborate when I get to sorting Ballister). Nimona herself is angry with the Kingdom and its rejection of her, but she seems to keep her anger to graffiti and fantasies of revolution, but Ballister, if her new person wants to overthrow the government, she's all on board and will help him however she can. Even when he's not what she expected and doesn't fully accept her yet, sticking with him and helping him is so much better than being alone, and she'll stand by him until he completely rejects and fears her.

Nimona's obstacle to the acceptance she craves is wrapped up in her secondary: She's a Lion. I read once that a shapeshifter Lion secondary would have a distinguishing trait that would be constant through all their forms, and that's obviously Nimona. Her animal forms are consistent over a thousand years, her impression of Ballister has a red streak in his hair and acts like her, and when she properly acts (a bit of a Bird model), as the Demon Baby and Ambrosius, she loses patience and lets herself through pretty quickly, terrifying the Squire and making Ambrosius' death a bit over the top. And her consistent difference from everyone around her is her struggle, she can look similar to all the animals but not so similar that they accept her. Gloreth, miraculously, accepts her human form and her shapeshifting abilities as well... until she doesn't. So she's careful, opening up to Ballister again. She's Nimona, she's defiantly herself, and not defined by any group, but she's reluctant to explain. She does enjoy lying to Ballister, but only as a momentary joke. (And maybe jabbing at his gullibility is related to her burnt tendency to trust people at face value?) She gradually reveals herself, until she's unmasked as Gloreth's monster, and Ballister leaves her.

And now she's broken, she burns entirely, I think, primary and secondary. She takes a form without any of her usual red, and she's not playing a role, she's become the monster they all think she is. And she loses her weakened sense of self-preservation entirely. She is only drawn to the statue of the woman she loved and who betrayed her.

Until Ballister stops her. "I'm sorry. I see you, Nimona. And you're not alone." Ballister knows all her secrets and still sees her true self, her Person finally accepts all of her authenticity... and she returns to herself and falls into his arms.

In light of all this, I was at first confused by her final sacrifice, but then I noticed, first she looks at the screaming crowds, and looks upset, but only after she looks back at Ballister, and sees his horror, does her face turn to resolve. She's always empathized with the people of the Kingdom, especially children (as they feel like her, similarity is a good way for Snakes to connect), but I don't think she's ever really taken them as her problem. But when Ballister fully accepts her, she fully accepts him, which includes, as Snakes tend to, adopting his values. She takes his duty to defend the people as her own. He's a hero, and she's his sidekick.

(Damn, I want to cry again.)

Ambrosius Goldenloin's Snake primary is very clear from his imagined monologue to the Director, so I'll quote it at length here: "I've lost my mind. I've lost everything. The man I love, my best friend." He just says his everything is his Person. Followed by a note of jealousy: "Although now he's got a new best friend. What's that about?" His distrust of Ballister, here and elsewhere, is distinctly framed as "What else is he hiding? Who is the real him?" because if he never knew Ballister, then their connection wasn't real, and his loyalty to him isn't owed. But he isn't sure he's wrong about Bal, and so he keeps trying to make sense of his confusion, and find out if he should still be loyal to him. And he's built Ballister into his sense of self so much that he then asks: "Who am I? A direct descendant of Gloreth? I never asked for that." This man's not a Lion primary, he doesn't find his destiny or heritage meaningful in defining himself. And finally: "Now everyone expects me to arrest Ballister. And if I don't, I'm a traitor to you. And if I do, I'm a traitor to him!" He frames his choice as a binary one between two personal loyalties: to the Director, and to Ballister. They are his People, deciding between them is the only thing that matters. Gloreth, the Institute, the ideals he was taught, they don't even register for him. And Ambrosius deciding which of the two to trust is much of his arc.

His secondary is less explicit, but I think the clearest moment of him problem-solving is trying to catch Ballister on the subway. Todd, a stereotypical Lion secondary, sees an obvious clue and immediately wants to move. But Ambrosius waits, and watches. And his first clue is "He hates freestyle jazz." His skill in this investigation, as he argued before, is that he knows Ballister the best, so he'll have the best chance of catching him. He's invested in Ballister, so he has power around him. And once Ambrosius has thoroughly watched the full clip (and asked a tech where the train is going), only then does he decide where to go. The thoroughness and humility here, coupled with his intro scene giving Ballister such care and support, make me think Ambrosius is a Badger secondary. A Lover archetype for our hero/villain's boyfriend, but a variation who's very conflicted with a whole lot of agency. I love it. (And his sorting matches mine.)

Ballister Boldheart/Blackheart is a wonderful Bird primary, with an arc of transforming his belief system over the course of the movie, who models Snake for the two important Snake primaries in his life.

He starts out with a dream, "I'm here to slay monsters and protect our kingdom." But it's never about his specialness, I think he just absorbed the cultural narrative, and so just did what seemed like the obvious right thing. (Flashbacks to my Bird primary model) By the time he graduates the Institute, they've "brainwashed [him] good", as Nimona says. The Institutional Badgery values of protecting the Kingdom from monsters has become entirely his. And the public's doubt in him gets to him, he has trouble not absorbing their input.

And when it all falls apart, he's immediately concerned with the Truth. He's innocent, this isn't right, he just needs to give the right people the right information and it'll all be fine. He's not the burnt Snake primary villain Nimona expects, his values are still pretty intact despite everyone turning on him. It takes time for them to break down. The plot challenges him one piece at a time. When he sees the video, he edits his system enough to say that "the Institute's not the problem, the Director is." He gradually accepts more and more of Nimona. When Ambrosius rejects him, he decides it's ok to embrace the villain role a bit and have fun.

He definitively turns on Nimona not because of his loyalty to her or to Ambrosius, but because of a piece of paper (so Bird pri) and a deep part of his system: "Gloreth's monster is the embodiment of evil and what the Kingdom needs protection from." Only when he sees Nimona again, understands her, and lets go of this belief can he fully accept her. His early system, "I'm here to slay monsters and protect our kingdom" is half transformed. He's no longer here to slay monsters, he's still here to protect the Kingdom - but by accepting the Monster.

I think he's also a Bird secondary. He builds his own arm in a derelict tower. He makes an innocence wall to connect the dots. He likes making plans and he's initially uncomfortable with Nimona's improvisation when things inevitably go south. There's a particular way he's supposed to do this, honestly, quietly, carefully. But then, when Ambrosius rejects him, he takes up a bit of an Actor mask of the villain role, and he and Nimona start to sync and have fun together. He trusts his training and he's better at swordplay than any of the other knights, because, as Ambrosius said, he worked harder than any of them. And he learns to plan with Nimona, using her shapeshifting as a tool to get the confession from the Director. And him leaving his sword behind, "I don't fight for her anymore", the tools he uses are an important part of his identity.

The Director is definitely an Idealist. Her values are Badgery, about protecting the community from the outgroup, but her final decision to turn the cannon on the city shows that this ideal is inflexible when it comes to protecting actual people. Since we don't see her change, it's hard to tell which Idealist primary she is, but I think she's a Lion. She tells Ambrosius!Nimona that she had a dream as a child, and simply states that Ballister's knighthood would be the first crack in the wall. She has a monologue, but it's not an explanation. And when everyone around her turns on her, she doesn't update, she doesn't change like Ballister does, her convictions are internal and she carries them to the terrible end. And I think she's a Bird secondary. Lasers are her distinctive tools, to kill the Queen, to knock down Ambrosius, and to (try to) kill Nimona. She plots and lies, easily but carefully, on her own, no improvisation and no support from others. Her monologue is just her dropping her mask and speaking her Liony conviction.

Todd (Thoddeus) Sureblade strikes me as a pretty stereotypical Double Lion. He's impulsive, ready to rush off to catch Ballister at the first clue of where he went. He's a Glory Hound, competing with Ambrosius to lead the knights. And he never questions that he's in the right and better than those around him, until the very end. We only see his sad expression, but reading into that, I think the way the final battle ended shook him, and he's done some emotional soul-searching.

And while my sortings for the antagonist characters are more tentative, I enjoy the concept that this story, that's so much about inverting classical tropes, would invert the character archetypes such that Snake and Bird primaries are the heroes and Lion primaries (with Badgery and Glory Hound values) are the villains.

(These are the 5 characters I think we know enough about to sort decently. The Queen, the Squire, and Gloreth don't get much screen time.)

To sum up:

Nimona - Snake/Lion (Bird sec model)

Ambrosius - Snake/Badger

Ballister - Double Bird (Snake pri model)

The Director - Lion/Bird

Todd (Thoddeus) Sureblade - Double Lion

(If anyone else has sorted these characters, or has disagreements, I'd love to hear about it. I'm trying to get better at this.)

#nimona #sortinghatchats #ballister boldheart #ballister blackheart #ambrosius goldenloin #nimona film #shc #snake primary

[k-she-rambles]

since I'm on a temeraire kick...sortinghatchats thoughts!

Laurence: Gryffindor/Hufflepuff with an incredibly strong Bird Primary model. Behaves like a Burned Lion --possibly a deeply underdeveloped one?

Temeraire: Slytherin/Ravenclaw (with a Lion Primary model?)

Granby: Slytherin/Hufflepuff

Tharkay: Ravenclaw/Slytherin, mirroring Temeraire. (not totally certain about his primary)

Jane Roland: Double Snake (aviators tend towards snake it seems

Bonus Rankin my Beloathed: double badger

Laurence analysis under the cut:

• first instinct for Lawrence was Ravenclaw/Gryffindor. I thought 'that man will be himself if it kills him' (ran away twice to join the navy), a sure sign of a Lion Secondary, and he relies heavily on Structures of right and wrong, a Bird Primary trait.

But then I thought about it. Bird Primaries are relatively okay with what they believe in being disproved. They don't like it, but if they find they have to modify or replace some of the moral or philosophical structures they rely on, they're going to be glad to have learned better much sooner than another Primary would.

Lion Primaries though...they carry their beliefs deep in their hearts, and attacks on those beliefs feel, to them, like attacks on their hearts. When Laurence discovers that something he believes is morally wrong, the most positive reaction he ever has is grief. To truly excise something rotten that Laurence believes, you have to cut him open.

As for the good, he feels incredibly guilty for abandoning his Bird structures, but not as guilty as he does when he realizes he's not doing what he knows in his heart to be right.

With his secondary, it's not so much that Laurence will be himself if it kills him, but that he believes in Showing Up no matter what. He's going to be there doing something, no matter where "there" is--he holds himself and those around him to that standard. That's Badger Sec! As a result, Badger Secondaries tend to attract people resources --both allies and enemies. Badgers do this mostly without noticing. If that's not Laurence...

#temeraire #sortinghatchats #meta

[reading-sometimes]

Equestria Girls: Rainbow Rocks SHC Sorting

This is part 2 of a 4-part series. An explanation of the SHC system by @wisteria-lodge is here.

Sunset: Badger Lion

This movie is about Sunset learning how to unburn her Badger primary. It's pretty hard for her, since she feels like she's not part of any group in the first place. Almost everyone in the school hates her because she bullied them for years. She's not a part of the band, while every other member of her friend group is. Everyone in her friend group keeps bringing up how she turned into a demon, describing her demon form as horrifyingly awful. When the new students hate her, she assumes that it was because of something that she did, which would be pretty painful to a Badger primary like Sunset.

She uses her Badger primary pretty well, though. She volunteers to show new students around the school, so that they can know the new her before they heard stories about how she was before she was redeemed. She kept a book that let her contact Princess Celestia, because deep down, she knew that running away from her was a mistake. Eventually, she joins the band. She unburns her Badger primary as the school forgives her, and she feels more like part of a group.

It almost seems like Sunset has a Bird primary model, since she talks about how she's changed completely as a person. It's caused by her dropping her Glory Hound Lion primary model, though. Sunset's Lion secondary primarily appears in her temper and impulsivity, just like how it did in the first movie.

Twilight: Double Bird

When Twilight can't figure out how to defeat the villains, she immediately assumes that it's all her fault. Everyone expects Twilight to fix everything, so the pressure feels suffocating.

Sunset and Twilight have a nice conversation about how everyone expects them to be something that they're not (Twilight, because everyone sees her as someone who can do everything perfectly, and Sunset, who everyone sees as still being a delinquent). They both don't want to let anyone down. Twilight wants to live up to everyone's perceptions of her, but she's trying to be something that doesn't exist. It's caused by her perfectionism, but also because everyone assumes that she's a Badger primary, even though she's not. Her Badger primary model starts to explode here, and it gets worse throughout the series.

She ties her self-worth to bringing value to her friends, and when she can't do that, she falls apart. “But why wasn't it working? I should know what to do. How could I not know what to do? How could I have failed like this?”

Sunset helps Twilight by saying that no one can do anything alone, and that she needs to rely on her friends. Because this is a Badger primary show, Twilight's Badger primary model is treated as a good thing, even when it causes problems.

#eqg #equestria girls #sunset shimmer #twilight sparkle #shc #sortinghatchats

[herlaqueen]

When I see folks discussing possible flaws/issues for the various SHC houses, most of the time the Badger secondary one is "can overwork themselves/focus too much on work" or something like that.

But Courtier Badger has a darker side too. One that by itself is pretty morally neutral, but has the potential to be used to hurt people, hard.

A Badger secondary will help you notice things about people you meet so you can instinctively understand how to become a relatable person for them. It will take note of what they say, how they say it, their body language. It'll notice the unspoken words lingering between sentences, sideways glances, every hesitation.

With a bit of patience, you'll probably have a good idea of what this person likes and hopes, but also what they fear, about themselves and others. It will point out to you the cracks in them.

And this can be a good thing! It can be very helpful to avoid a potentially explosive topic, or when you're trying to comfort a clearly distressed friend that isn't volunteering much information.

But it also makes hurting people so easy, and during a heated discussion, it's tempting to use this hold you have on their fears and emotions to just make it stop, to gain a moral high ground, or just because right now you think they deserve to be hurt.

Sometimes I look at someone I know well enough and realize: "Oh, I could make you have an identity crisis right now by showing you the ugliest version of yourself you'd still be able to recognize as you and using the right words to make you believe just a bit that there's truth in it".

And then I don't do it, of course, but the... casual way my inner thoughts take note of this and file it under "might be useful someday" is a bit scary. And it all comes from the same place that allows me to give the best Chrismas gifts and just know when it's time to check in with a friend and ask how it's going.

Edited to add: of course, I think every person of every sorting has the means to (more or less consciously) gather information about the people they interact with, and then use it for good or for bad. What I mean is that the way it happens, to me, feels tied to how I use my secondary to more generally interact with the world and other people, as well as the way I'd go if I ever had to actually go that far (hopefully never, since it's a bridge-burning level extreme measure).

#sortinghatchats #badger secondary

[sevilemar]

Clara Oswald from Doctor Who is a double snake, and so is Twelve. Fight me on it!

#sortinghatchats #doctor who #clara oswald

[sunnyhatchats]

automatic vs non-automatic secondary

#iasip #it's always sunny in philadelphia #sortinghatchats #shc #sorting hat chats #Youtube #don't really know what the waitress is honestly

[thelongestway]

Not to comment on something you posted over a year ago, but based on my impressions of the SHC system I think Rezo would, like Zel, also be a Lion/Bird (albeit I am basing this partly on his Revo/Evo-R characterization as well as his Slayers Prime characterization.)

Ha! Long-term engagement is fantastic, so thank you for asking! Let me do A Take on this - but I don't remember Revo/Evo nearly as well, so if you've got something to add from that point, please do!

Rezo the Red Priest, one of the primary antagonists in Slayers, is an interesting case - the Lion Primary is certainly there! That single-minded devotion to curing his own eyesight has A LOT in common with how Zelgadis wants to cure his body. Actually, I think it's fairly safe to say that Zel probably copies his way of dealing from the one adult in his life. However, as far as Secondaries go... There are indeed points to be made for Bird. The sheer breadth of his knowledge - this is a man who goes on to master all the known types of magic to cure his ailment. But there's something to it that's more than tools. Rezo's... I want to say, expansive and systematic in a way few Bird secondaries ever reach, and he is also more nose-to-the-grindstone about it. Where Zelgadis picks up relevant tricks of the trade, Rezo just goes "well, if anything can fix this, it's magic." And he learns everything about magic. Not just what he thinks he needs to. He learns everything.

And the social side of how he works! Even though he doesn't really care for other people's blindness - at least at the point we see him in the first season of the anime - he acquires a reputation as one of the kindest mages, who goes on to heal other people in droves. It's this interesting combination - Rezo doesn't care about other people; but he also... Doesn't lie about his capabilities. He doesn't make up a Persona, the way Zel perhaps would have ("heartless swordsman!") Instead, he lets people project onto him and becomes what they need; he uses them for his own purposes but in a way that they are glad to be used.

He also doesn't keep people around for specific purposes. Bird secondaries have contacts; Rezo has minions and likely more than a few people who owe him their life and health. Even though he, too, has a lonely, ultimately selfish cause, he is enmeshed into Community to an extent Zelgadis would be terrified by.

And the way Zel gets through to him, when fighting Shabranigdo! "Do you really wish to destroy the world you wanted to see so much?" While I wrote earlier that Zel appeals to an Idealist morality here - and I think he does, Lion to Lion - I do think that this appeal also stirred the Badger, which is by its nature very global.

When Zel succeeds, Rezo doesn't bring down Shabranigdo from the inside. He holds him off. Endures. Just enough for Lina to do her thing.

This could be a Bird Secondary... But I think that's a Badger Secondary. In her description of the SHC archetypes, @wisteria-lodge calls the Lion/Badger "The Lynchpin", and notes how they are often the center of a wheel, and the center of events. Rezo would be an unusually non-group oriented Lynchpin - perhaps because we see him at a very desperate point - but the sheer amount of Things revolving around him certainly fits the bill. Also, the Lynchpin is a very common "Sleeper Villain" sorting, and what is Rezo if not that.

Tl;dr: the original Rezo, I think, is a Lion/Badger. Kopii-kun, on the other hand...

#shc #sortingtheslayers #rezo the red priest #akahoushi rezo #lion primary #badger secondary #sortinghatchats

[wisteria-lodge]

SORTING DISNEY VILLAINS (1937-1989)

For  *spooky season.* I suspect this will be easier than sorting the heroes, who tend to be reactive while villains are very clear about what they want and what exactly they’re going to do to get it. Let’s see if this ends up being the case. 

I go into a lot more detail about this character analysis system here, and talk about the move away from the HP terminology here. But here are the basics: 

PRIMARY (ie MOTIVE)

BADGER ~ Loyal to the group.

SNAKE ~ Loyal to yourself and your Important People.

LION ~ Subconscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to feelings and instincts.

BIRD ~ Conscious Idealist. Ideals are linked to built systems and external facts.

SECONDARY (ie METHOD)

BADGER ~ Connect with the group. Make allies, work steadily and well. Be whatever the situation calls for. If you find a locked door, knock.

SNAKE ~ Connect with the environment. Notice things. Tell people what they want to hear. If you find a locked door, get in through the window.

BIRD ~ Collect skills, knowledge, tools, personas, useful friends. If you find a locked door, track down the key or learn to pick the lock.

LION ~ Be honest, be direct, speak your truth. Either the obstacle is going down or you are. If you find a locked door, kick it in.

THE EVIL QUEEN (1937) - BURNT BADGER / BIRD

So. I know that in Snow White the Queen's Thing is Vanity, but.  The ‘Vain Villainess’ trope is about the fear of becoming less powerful in a world that only values you for your looks.... which doesn’t actually seem to be her issue? The Queen seems pretty darn unchallenged in her universe. That’s almost part of the problem - there’s an addiction/obsession/paranoia flavor to the way she’s constantly checking in with the Mirror.

I don’t think the Queen is actually obsessed with Snow White’s beauty. I think she’s obsessed with her innocence, her “heart” (that’s literally what she asks the Huntsman to bring her, Snow’s heart in a box.) Snow White isn’t just the “fairest” as in the prettiest, but the fairest as in the most fair-minded, the most honorable. The presence of Snow, with her optimism, kindness, and trust is an existential threat, proof that the Queen is going about things all wrong. Her power definitely has a edge of sadism: She forces Snow to wear rags (none of the other princesses wear *rags.*) And I’ll be haunted by this image of the Queen’s dungeons forever.

So even though my first instinct was to go Hedonist Snake primary for the Evil Queen, that’s not right. She’s not focused on enjoying herself. She doesn’t seem conscious enough of her own desires to be a Bird, and Exploded Lion is possible… but I’m going with Burnt Badger. An obsession with being “Fairest of them all” seems to suggest a group-focused, External-facing primary, and I absolutely see how the extremely UnBurnt Badger Snow White would really get under a Burnt Badger’s skin. 

Obviously a Bird secondary. The Evil Queen is Mad Scientist coded, even has a literal evil laboratory. The “Old Crone” plan features a transformation, a costume, and is very much an Actor Bird persona.  

THE WICKED STEPMOTHER (1950) - SNAKE / BADGER

While she does seem to get some sort of sadistic pleasure out of controlling Cinderella, the Wicked Stepmother’s main motivation is her daughters. Her daughters kind of suck, but that doesn’t actually matter. The Stepmother is going to make sure they get that happy ending, with all the targeted loyalty of a Snake Primary. There’s a Badger secondary in there too, which you can see in the way she’s… subtle. The Stepmother takes away Cinderella‘s privilege bit by bit… but never actually goes after her directly. She manipulates her daughters into doing her dirty work (like the way they tear up Cinderella’s dress) so she can always maintain plausible deniability. She’s prim, she’s proper, she’s Lady Tremaine. Dark Courtier Badger, all the way. 

THE QUEEN OF HEARTS (1951) - LION / LION

This Queen’s thing is that she’s childish. She wants what she wants NOW. Doesn’t matter if it makes sense, doesn’t matter if it’s impossible. The Queen of Hearts functions as both a lesson to Alice (authority figures don’t always know what they’re talking about) and as a warning (this could be you if you don’t navigate the transition to adulthood properly.) I see a very young Glory Hound Lion primary in the way she forces everyone else to cheat so she gets the emotional reward of winning the croquet game. I also want to attribute the Queen of Hearts’ extremely short fuse to her Lion primary - she acts on what she’s feeling the *second* she starts feeling it, and never questions this. Also she's a Lion secondary. There’s no plan. She lives in Wonderland. She’s living moment to moment.

CAPTAIN HOOK (1953) - BADGER / SNAKE

Unlike the Queen of Hearts, Captain Hook does not seem to be *of* the magical land he lives in. He is this outside force trying to impose order on Neverland, leading the only rigid organization there and constantly tying up/imprisoning the main characters. Hook is also the only one th threatened by the concept of time (the ticking crocodile.) *Peter* will never grow old. But somehow Captain Hook will? Or feels like he will? Tradition also says that the actor playing Wendy’s controlling father should play Hook as well, so there's definitely something about toxic order or toxic control going on (the Disney film uses the same voice actor in both roles.) So in the world of Peter Pan, Hook/Father becomes representative of adulthood/society/the Man. That makes him an Authoritarian Badger primary, defined by his organizations.

For his secondary - Hook’s not much of a planner. He’s most effective while he is talking an angry Tinker Bell into helping him, and in that scene he’s charming. He flatters her, pivots according to what he thinks she wants to hear, and while Courtier Badger secondary is possible, I think this feels more like Snake. (I also think you have to be some kind of Improvisational secondary in order to hold your own against Peter.) It makes sense - Hook has to be appealing and seductive as well as threatening, because that's kind of what adulthood is.

MALEFICENT (1959) - BIRD / LION

Maleficent’s feels socially slighted in a very *abstract* way. She doesn’t seem to have an emotional response to either the other fairies OR the King and Queen OR Aurora. Her curse doesn’t have anything to do with with her social standing, or her power, or her role in the kingdom. We actually don’t know what Maleficent’s deal is. Maybe by not inviting her to the christening the kingdom has broken some important Rule of hers. Or maybe she’s just torturing people because she’s bored, and this is a fun Project. (That is her plan with Phillip after all, and this image will ALSO always haunt me.)

But either way, she’s a Bird primary. The only question is if she’s more of a System-Building Bird, or a Project Bird. 

Unusually for such a cold villain, I think I want to give her a Lion secondary. She’s patient, and her plans take place over long time-frames, but the plans themselves are direct - “When your daughter turns sixteen, I will kill her.” Done. Also, when Maleficent is threatened, she turns into a giant dragon who certainly does not plan, and her goons (while useless) are very loyal. So another point for Inspirational secondary.

CRUELLA DE VIL (1961) - LION / LION

Cruella wants a coat made out of Dalmatian puppies. That’s  it. So I'm putting her in the same category as Hannibal Lecter, someone doing this for the *art,*  the ~*~aesthetic~*~ of the thing. But unlike Hannibal, nothing about Cruella is cold or considered. I don’t think she’d be able to tell you why she wants that Dalmatian coat apart from “It’s fabulous, darling.” So instead of going Bird primary (the typical Weird Villain sorting) I’m saying she's a Lion. Cruella seems to have an aesthetic-based morality: "fabulous" and "non-fabulous," instead of "good" and "bad." She’s a Fay Lion primary, like Jack Sparrow.

Her secondary is harder. She definitely has goons, but they’re useless, and don’t seem to like her much. She doesn’t plot or face-change. She clearly likes Anita and doesn’t like Roger, and never bothers to mask this. Cruella first tries to buy the puppies - then sort of seems surprised when this doesn’t work? Honestly, the main impression I get from her is that she’s… not trying very hard. She only really starts to care right at the very end, when she’s driving with wild hair and crazy eyes, as her roadster falls apart around her. I’m going with Lion secondary to reflect that tendency she has to operate at either 1% or 100%.

MADAME MIM (1963) - LION / SNAKE

Madame Mim has a sort of a professional rivalry going on with Merlin, and dislikes that Wart calls him “the greatest wizard in the land.” So of course she challenges him to a wizard duel. She wants to be the best, she wants to win… and that’s all there is to it. So we have another Glory Hound Lion primary. 

It’s very clear that Madame Mim loves transformation. She switches between her different faces as many times as she possibly can over the course of a single conversation. Notably, she has a sexy version of herself that she uses to charm people into doing what she wants… and there’s no reason she couldn’t wear that all the time. But she doesn’t want to. Mim gets a lot of joy out of her fluid Snake secondary, and when she’s not solving a problem she just wants to chill out in Neutral. 

PRINCE JOHN (1973) - EXPLODED SNAKE / BIRD

Prince John’s motivation has a couple of  layers. Obviously, he’s a *little* bit too excited about taxing on the citizens of Nottingham… but that’s because he’s overcompensating. His main visual design element is a crown that doesn’t fit. He’s not King John, he's Prince John, only in charge until his other (better) brother Richard comes home from the Crusades. That’s why he’s so easily flattered - he’s incredibly insecure. But his conflict isn't with Richard, exactly. It’s really... mommy issues. Everything John does is to please Mummy (an off screen-character.) Very Exploded Snake primary. 

Secondary is hard because John is incompetent. He mostly solves problems by pointing the Sheriff of Nottingham at them. It’s a running joke that he doesn’t actually listen to his advisor Sir Hiss, who generally has the right idea but isn't a suck-up. I guess John does lay kind of sophisticated traps for Robin Hood?  They don’t work, but the intent at least is Bird. So I guess I would have to go with that - a pretty incompetent Bird secondary. 

PROFESSOR RATIGAN (1986) - BURNT SNAKE / BIRD

Unlike Madame Mim and Merlin, whatever Basil of Baker Street and Ratigan have going on does not feel like a professional rivalry. Technically Ratigan is plotting a coup… but he spends approximately 85% of his on-screen time entirely focused on Basil. They are at least ex-friends who now hate each other (and it’s really easy to read them as straight-up bitter exes.) Even his hatred of being called a “rat” seems to be linked to Basil - that's an insult Basil uses, implying that Ratigan is motivated by hedonism and ego, and not by the purity of the puzzle the way that Bird Primary Basil is. Really, he’s criticizing Ratigan for having a Snake primary motivation. 

Ratigan is very obviously a very loud Bird secondary. He loves lists, he loves Rube-Goldberg devices. He’s based off Professor Moriarty, it's Snake Bird all the way down.

URSULA THE SEA WITCH (1989) - SNAKE / BIRD

So Ursula wants to take over, be the new monarch of the sea… which is usually a Glory Hound Lion motivation. But there's the implication the she's doing this to specifically screw over Triton... which would make her more of a Snake. Ursula also has a *very* hedonistic approach to life, something you often see in Snake primaries with small circles. It's just her and her “babies," the eels Flotsam and Jetsam. He eels also seem very emotionally important to her, as far as villain minions go. This could be another example of Snake primary loyalty.

I don't know, I just think a Lion primary Ursula would be angrier, more of a Scar. She’s doing her own thing, an makes use of an opportunity that falls into her lap. This is structurally a story about King Triton (who has the big emotional arc and the most character change) so it makes sense that she is specifically a Triton villain, and Ariel was just unlucky enough to get in the way.

I'm actually going to say Bird secondary for Ursula. I agree that she gives off Snake secondary *vibes,* and absolutely might model or perform it for fun. But the way she wins over Ariel is by spouting facts very fast and very confidently, then getting her to sign a bad contract. It’s a Corrupt Lawyer beat more than anything. Vanessa, Ursula's alternate form, is more an Actor Bird transformation (Wicked Queen style) and less a Snake secondary playing around (Madame Mim style.) Vanessa is Ursula's version of Ariel - she even speaks with Ariel's voice - and that's a Bird secondary approach. When Ursula‘s plans start falling apart, she doesn't pivot. She starts looking very Lion secondary - exactly like Bird secondary Ariel does when she’s overwhelmed.

Tl;dr 

Double Lion -  Queen of Hearts, Cruella De Vil

Lion Snake - Madame Mim

Snake Bird - Prince John, Professor Ratigan, Ursula

Snake Badger - Wicked Stepmother

Badger Snake - Captain Hook

Badger Bird - Evil Queen

Bird Lion - Maleficent

#disney #sortinghatchats #shc #queen of hearts #cruella de vil #madame mim #disney’s robin hood #prince john #professor ratigan #ursula the sea witch #wicked stepmother #lady tremaine #captain hook #evil queen #snow white evil queen #maleficent #wisteria sorts

[the-phoenix-heart]

Sorting Hat Chats - Titanic (1997)

I watched Titanic twice in two days and this is the result of that. I finally remembered that I make these types of posts.

Here is a summary of the system I am using (credit: @wisteria-lodge ) and because it has been a long time let the record show: Fuck JKR, I do not support her view at all.

The movie is ROSE'S story, not actually Rose and Jack's story. The thing with it is while Jack is integral to the plot, what matters is that he exists and he saved her. He doesn't go through an arc. This is Rose's story, and it is of her self actualization.

Rose says she knows exactly how her life is going to play out, and we can see she hates it. Even before she has met Jack she is subtly rebelling against her mother and Cal. She hates the bird primary model she wears, the one that has all the rules that define her life.

The real Rose, the one that isn't stifled under the weight of high society, is a Lion primary. When she is herself she smokes, drinks more than Jack, competes with the big strong Swedish man, flips off Cal's valet, and is extremely horny.

She is a lion primary. She wishes to do what she feels is right. On the Titanic her 'cause' is "say fuck you to high society and abscond with my manic pixie dream Leonardo DiCaprio." Then after the iceberg hits it becomes "save Jack at all costs and also other people I come across." Jack getting arrested for stealing the diamond is because she felt an obligation to tell her mother and Cal about the iceberg.

When she is telling Jack why she came back to save him, asking how she figured he didn't steal, she says "I didn't. I just realized I already knew."

As for her secondary, we are introduced to her as she is doing pottery. Then we are introduced to her a second time with her comparing the Titanic to the Mauritania. Rose Dewitt Bukater is a Bird secondary.

Rose knows things. We see her as an old woman and see she travels with her pictures that she has collected. Young Rose collects paintings that she likes and clearly has a taste for fine art. She insults Ismay by bringing up Freud. She knows everything about the people in high society around her, though she clearly doesn't like them. She has jack teaching her things. She knows what ice fishing and did ballet. She becomes an actress. And she knows how every interaction will go when it comes to High Society, as well as different languages.

I debated her being a Lion secondary because in the third act she looks like one, wielding an axe and jumping off boats and pushing people up against walls saying she is through with being polite. But I think in a disaster scenario anyone will look like Lion secondary. Plus, when she is half frozen to death she gets the attention of the boat by taking the whistle of the man she had seen blowing it before. An observation paying off.

JACK DAWSON was an interesting case to sort. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Jack is a Badger primary. Jack cares about people. Within two days of being on the ship he already knows the name of a random little girl on the ship (Cora) and calls her his favorite girl. He learns people's names quickly is incredibly affable with them. The way he talks about the one legged prostitute or the woman who wore all her jewels, he remembered them. He's barely been in his cabin with the Swedish guys for one minute and he's already treating them like his best friends.

I think it really is summed up with the scene on Titanic as it departs.

Jack, waving to the people: "Goodbye!" Fabrizio: "You know somebody?" Jack: "Of course not, that's not the point!"

Fabrizio joins in on saying goodbye after Jack. For Jack saying goodbye was either because he was saying goodbye to England, or because everybody was waving goodbye and he wanted to join in on the activity.

I think it's also clear when he saves Rose. He has only seen this girl once from a distance, but when he sees her about to throw herself off the ship he is immediately ready to save her. He's too involved now.

But he doesn't have to jump in and rescue her. Because he talks her out of it. He tells her about an experience he had falling into cold water, and clearly makes it seem like he's ready to jump in after her. He's already taking his coat and shoes off to jump in. His strategy seems to be, "if I can't convince her to save herself I can convince her to save me."

I think he's a Snake secondary. He immediately blends into high society by mimicking the mannerisms of the people around him and by playing himself so incredibly confident in his meager origins that they are charmed by him. There's also the seen wear he disguises himself so he can get a chance to talk to Rose. He also is clearly at home playing poker and has a good poker face.

He almost comes off as a Bird secondary because he knows so much stuff, but he makes it clear that he doesn't have a plan, he kinda just goes wear he goes living day to day. So I think that his grab bag of skills is literally just things he has picked up from day to day life.

I think the Badger Snake sorting works as shorthand for telling you what you need to know about him. He's sexy and fun because he's a Snake secondary, but also worldly and kind because he's a Badger primary.

And last but least I want to talk about is CALEDON HOCKLEY. Because even though he is a very simple character I also think he's a very interesting one. Because Caledon Hockley is destroyed by love. Or obsession. Or possession. It's hard to tell with him. They could have played him as just the greedy asshole in it for money, but he's not just that. He also appears to genuinely loves Rose, he just happens to be an absolute fucking asshole! He seeks to control every aspect of her life, because he loves her and is obsessed with her and wants to possess her, even when she is constantly rebelling against him.

Even after he has slapped her and she has told him she would rather be Jack's whore than Cal's wife he has his valet trying to find her and tries to make sure that she gets on a lifeboat. He even lies and says he'll get Jack on a lifeboat as well so long as Rose gets on one. And EVEN AFTER he tries to kill her for running off with Jack he goes looking for her after they are on the Carpathia. He might've been looking to get the diamond but with how melancholic he looks it seems more like he wanted to see she was alive. I think part of that is Billy Zane.

He says it himself, "There's nothing I'd deny you, if you would not deny me."

(Cal should take notes from the Goblin King's speech to Sarah in Labyrinth)

So he is an exploded Snake primary. As for his secondary, it would be easy to say Lion secondary. He is very violent, shooting at Rose and Jack (which he is very bad at), breaking things, and slapping Rose around. But that's when he's pissed. Throughout the movie the way he does things is much more subtle. He takes out Rose's cigarette and orders her food for her. He turns off the music box she was listening to. He pretends he has been robbed so he can from Jack for it. He gets his valet to do most of his dirty work and he bribes people with things. When his bribery has failed and he's separated from his valet he doesn't go in with punching people, he grabs the screaming Irish girl he saw earlier and says he has a child and has to be let on. He's a badger secondary. A dark one, but a badger.

So...

Rose Dewitt Bukater - Lion primary, Bird primary model that defines her life that she hates/Bird secondary

Jack Dawson - Badger primary/Snake secondary

Caledon Hockley - Exploded Snake primary/Badger secondary

#titanic #titanic 1997 #jack dawson #rose dewitt bukater #caledon hockley #sorting hat chats #sortinghatchats

[sortinghatchats]

I love numbers! Drop your Primary sorting in the poll below.

Not familiar with sortinghatchats? Primary = your WHY. Secondary = your HOW. Take the quiz below— it will walk you through the system, guess your sorting (primary & secondary), and let you argue with it til you find one that sounds right!

(I’ll make another poll for secondaries)

#sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats

[veritas-in-notitia]

This got me thinking so i wrote myself some notes.

i wonder sometimes about ideal primaries. if your morals are about your people would you seem like a snake? community -- a badger? Does a Lion who believes in Truth lool like a Bird, or a bird whose truth is Honesty vice versa?

What is it that I'm really wondering? Maybe "What's the difference between a model and the focus of your morals?"

Eg what does a Lionpri with a Bird model look like (or vice versa)? Is it different from a Lion whose morals are in the shape of a Bird system? Is it the same thing? Is a Lion who wants to have the best most proper system still even a Lion? Because they do it out of internal need/feeling? How is a Lionpri with Snake or Badgerpri morals different from a Lionpri with Snake or Badgerpri *models*?

#I know Truth and Honesty arent the exact definitions of bird and lion pri but this is notes to self. and i do what i want. so there. #shc #sortinghatchats

[amai-no-ura]

I was sorted as lion primary a few times by people and the quiz, but I have such an irrational hate to that answer, it comes near to saying I hate myself and that part of me that makes everyone say that. Kind of a lion response probably. Maybe it's the way I thought the lion should work, and where it should lead me in the end, and that not working out, I'm not sure. There's a lot of other houses in me, and I could theoretically claim any and live there comfortably, but that wouldn't be the truth. I might stl be a lion, maybe not in the best shape even, and that thought would never abandon me. I have little hope that my reaction is fair and I'm not actually a lion, so is there anything you would think I could do to lessen this reaction and try to appreciate this primary? Sorry for this ramble, ignore this if needed. Thank you for your time.

There is the only way, from my experience.

Go out and live. Questioning this, obsessing over it won't give you any satisfaction. Go out and experience thing. Find a cause to fight for whether that's your ambition, your self-improvement, your dream job, your journey, whatever that is. Go out there, fall in love, get your heart broken, meet more people and befriend them. Get yourself out there and meet the hardship of life, the bitter sweet taste of failure and learn from it. From every moment of life.

There is no shortcut to any of these problems. The only way you can know yourself is by living a full life. And a full life isn't to live in a dank cellar pondering on question like this. It is to go out there and experience what life has to offer, good and bad. That's how you'll learn to know yourself and maybe love yourself.

There is no magic pill that will make you love yourself more or tell you who you are. Only your courage to live and learn from life will open the way for you.

@wisteria-lodge I can't think of other Lion Primary, do you have any advice for this anon?

#lion primary #sortinghatchats #sorting hat chats #housekeeping