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#steven universe discourse
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ok i wasnt gonna do it i told myself no im just not gonna say anything on this drama but this is so MINDBOGGLING that i HAVE to make a post about this
i am gonna start by saying as someone on the arospectrum i personally see peridot as either fully aroace or arospec (i like headcanoning either one) and as in a qpr or plantonic friendship with lapis.
peridot has been confirmed to be intended to be read as aroace by a storyboard artist (maya peterson) that would focus on her character, i am not denying that,
however
she is also confirmed to be intended to be read as experiencing romantic attraction, by the OTHER storyboard artist who originally worked on peridot, jesse zuke, who has just as much authority to talk about peridots character, if not more since (to my knowledge) she was the original main storyboard artist for peridot
the intention behind what peridot is suppose to represent is fundamentally contradictory, there is absolutely no use fighting over it. this is so dumb to fight over YES both sides have been confirmed canon THATS WHY THIS IS DUMB </33
ive been trying to find as many actual sources as i can (which has been pretty difficult since A LOT has been deleted) but I finally found a transcript of one of jesse zukes posts that is deleted that everyone keeps referencing
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from this reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/stevenuniverse/comments/5q738i/lauren_zuke_speaks_of_her_intention/
(jesse was formerly known as lauren)
anyone posts something shipping peridot, u get a load of comments saying "this is aroace erasure, shes written as aroace, a storyboard artist said so", anyone posts something about peridot being canonically aroace, u get a load of comments saying "shes not canonically aroace, she was written as experiencing romantic attraction, a storyboard artist said so" everyone is either one or the other it seems like NO ONE is acknowledging that both is true and really this confusion is the fault of the crewniverse ????
these storyboard artists BOTH focused heavily on working on peridot and creating her character, and their intentions behind what she is are completely contradicting.
i would love for peridot to be aroace. to me she IS aroace, but im not going to pretend like this isnt the most confusing most unclear way of confirming that. even if maya peterson intended for her to be seen as aroace, jesse zuke wrote her as the complete opposite and it would be stupid of me to ignore that. harassing eachother over this is stupid. your both correct, now shake hands and make peace with eachother lol, good night.
As an arospec person I am completely fine with people shipping peridot and I do not think it is aroace erasure, because while I would love to see an orientation like mine depicted in a character like peridot, im not going to ignore that fact the she was ALSO originally meant to be read as experiencing romantic attraction AND the fact that many of the crewniverse ships peridot with people or supports others doing it. it is not aroace erasure to ship a character that was literally intended to be read as experiencing romantic attraction by some of the people who worked on her character. rebecca god damn sugar, the creator of steven universe has made fanart shipping peridot. peridots voice actor has said she likes and supports people shipping peridot. its just that different people working on the show had wildly different intentions when creating her character, and didnt clear up a solid identity for her with everyone working on her
jesse zuke said in her post "cant speak for anyone else! many people are writing those episodes". just like if maya peterson and anyone else working on peridot intended for her to be read as aroace, other people working on her character with just as much authority were writing her completely differently. people are not seeming to acknowledge that these two things co-exist. it is not one or the other. even though they are complete opposites, somehow theyve made it so that its both at once.
she was simultaneously written to be both aroace and experiencing romantic attraction by different people writing her character, clearly because of miscommunication within the crewniverse.
heres rebecca sugars ship art btw since the first 2 were really hard to find, in case anyone else wanted some sort of actual evidence of it
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also just wanted to bring attention to jesse zuke saying "anyone who wants to see the narrative they want is completely, 100% allowed to". peridot and her episodes were written to have multiple interpretations. this was written with multiple intentions. some of those intentions were aroace, some of them, like jesse zukes, were not. you are all correct peace and love
update i found a slightly longer version of jesse zukes post in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=oIl1sEQ4_iI
"I wanted to close the book on this - I am queer, and intend fully to write queer characters when I do"
this is pretty clear confirmation that peridot was fully written with completely different ideas in mind from completely different people. jesse zuke INTENDED for peridot and lapis to be read as having a queer relationship, in this post shes encouraging people to read it that way, meanwhile other writers had other intentions which are just as real and valid.
inconsistency and messy production in steven universe is not a new thing
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dont shoot me for posting steven universe discourse in 2023 on tumblr, but i have.. thoughts about peridot. yes its about the aroace thing. no its not the point you think it is. take what im about to say with a helping of salt bc this is from memory and i watched the episodes a few years ago but: i think it's actually insanely fucked up if they wrote peridot as aroace and if thats true it also deeply confuses the metaphor for me.
number 1, fusion is supposed to be any kind of relationship - not just romantic. so like.. her not being able to fuse in anyway is strange if its meant to mean aroace. honestly, it lines up more as autistic for me. not in a "autistics cant relationship" way but in a "autism often causes issues engaging in certain social/relationship rituals and fusion is one of those"
number 2, it is heavily implied she can't fuse because she's a second gen peridot, which is a definitive disability metaphor. its not just autism either guys (i am looking at you neurodivergent community)!! it is very much physical as well. so, implying she's aroace just bc she's disabled.. is a batshit insane take and so so ableist. end of post.
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funkmasterfuma · 11 months
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People will be like "Steven Universe is bad because it's about forgiving war criminals" and then their favorite character from Avatar: The Last Airbender is Iroh. You missed the point of Steven Universe.
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garnetrena · 1 year
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I'm going to say something super naive but I'm tired of Steven Universe discourse. I've seen people shitting on SU (again) by comparing it to The Owl House (thanks for the spoilers, by the way /s) and it's so fucking annoying. Can't you leave this show alone???
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thebi-acenerd · 5 months
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Insane to me that steven universe, of all shows, caused THAT much discourse, bcuz I rewatched the whole thing recently and my mind remains the same: that show was kind of mid overall, but really good in some parts and definitely didn’t deserve the shit that it stirs
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starlooove · 1 year
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Im glad ppl are talking about the unnecessary hate SU got or whatever but ppl are ALSO forgetting the extreme racism present in the fandom bc of weird racial shit involved in the show and I just wanna let it be known that when I talk abt how SU was screwed over for no good reason it is NOT a safe space for mfs who argued that bismuth’s treatment wasn’t that bad or disagreed with everyone’s issues involving Sugilite thx
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nightmarejunglegym · 1 year
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I'm at the Steven Universe Discourse
I'm at the tumblr puriteen block list
I'm at the combination Steven Universe Discourse and tumblr puriteen block list
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ghost-opal · 1 year
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Steven Universe political discourse is so dumb because both sides are always full of softie liberal cowards
"Nooo you don't get it, Pink Diamond shouldn't have started a war against Homeworld because war is bad!!!"
Yeah and Homeworld was worse, she literally couldn't have done anything else to fight against it lol, they SAY that.
I do think condemning Bismuth for wanting to shatter diamonds was kind of a dumb plot point tbh. Like yeah I get it, she wanted to shatter pink and that's obv going to ruin her plan but... the way they delivered it and mentioned it later on made me cringe. Let her shatter the ruling class!
Steven Universe secretly being Pink Diamond and solving the conflict by using the fact that he was a diamond, while logical and necessary for the plot, also made me cringe a bit tho... like, could he really not just be a descendant of a common gem? It gives nepotism.
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derekfoxwit · 7 months
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How Animation Discourse Can Feel At Times: The Complete Collection
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“catra is a complex poc” fuck that. here are some ACTUAL poc animated characters who are just as, if not more complex than catra.
grace monroe (infinity train) • black american
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connie maheshwaran (steven universe) • indian-american
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katara (avatar the last airbender) • inuk
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wolf (kipo and the age of wonderbeasts) • black american
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suhara/shadowsan (carmen sandiego) • japanese
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korra (the legend of korra) • inuk
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jesse cosay (infinity train) • indigenous (apache)
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lars barriga (steven universe) • filipino
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azula (avatar the last airbender) • japanese
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ryan akagi (infinity train) • japanese-canadian
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luz noceda (the owl house) • afro-dominican american
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(there are a lot more, so i'll be making a part 2!)
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kiapet2 · 1 year
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Alright, it’s less than a week since the Owl House finale aired and as expected I’ve already seen two direct comparisons to Steven Universe’s ending and several more vague-blogs, because one of this site’s hobbies is using other queer shows to put down Steven Universe. So let’s do this, then. Let’s compare the endings of Owl House and Steven Universe, and what each is ultimately trying to say.
Steven Universe and the Owl House are both shows that deal heavily with the clash of individualism and self-expression vs. socially-mandated conformity, and both shows’ final villains ultimately embody this conflict. One major difference, however, is that Owl House approaches this from the perspective of legal/societal structures, while Steven Universe approaches it from the perspective of family structures.
Steven Universe has always been about family--and particularly the ways traumas and biases are passed down through a family--and it has always heavily used the language of metaphor to discuss these topics. The Diamonds are the ultimate extension of this theme, something a lot of bad-faith (or just bad) takes on the ending miss; they interpret the diamonds in their literal capacity as dictators, rather than the way Steven Universe always portrays them, which is as matriarchs, i.e. the heads of a family who dictate and control all the family’s other members. This metaphor becomes more and more blatant until it outright becomes text, with the Diamonds turning out to be Steven’s literal family members, with whom his part of the family is estranged because of their previous controlling behavior.
In accordance with this theme, we ultimately find out that the Diamonds’ toxic ideology, with its rigid standards of perfection, are not only something they enforce on the gems below them, but also on themselves. They are suffering from the system in their own ways, unable to live up to the standards they themselves created. And who among us hasn’t known someone like that? A parent or grandparent who grew up under a cruel, oppressive worldview, and instead of rebelling against it internalized it--who turned around and said “I dealt with this, and so can you”? And so the ending of Steven Universe is the Diamonds realizing exactly how toxic the rigid ideology they’ve spent their lives perpetuating really is, and confronting the fact that their adherence to this ideology is what destroyed their relationship with Pink, and that the only way they’re going to have a relationship with Steven is if they’re willing to commit to changing both themselves, and the family structure they’ve enforced for so long.
Emperor Belos, in contrast, is not suffering from the structures he created, because his rules were never meant to apply to him. He sees the witches (and demons, and so-on) as lesser beings, evil beings, who exist to be controlled, and ultimately, exterminated. And every element of the society he built--the schools, the government, the police force, the religion--he intentionally constructed to keep these lesser beings under his control. The real-world allegory isn’t hard to see, here. And because what Belos represents in the story is, in fact, a fascist leader, the story shows that he can’t be reasoned with in any way that matters, and instead he is ultimately ground into paste beneath the boots of the people he sought to destroy. Different themes, different endings.
Now the usual argument that comes up here is as follows: but the Steven Universe ending isn’t as realistic! Not everyone is going to change, not everyone is going to be able to be reasoned with. Not every older, conservative family member is eventually going to accept you for who you are. And while that is true, ultimately SU isn’t meant to be realistic; it’s meant to be a power fantasy. Rebecca Sugar has come out and said before that they wrote a world in which there was good in everyone, because that’s the way she wishes the world could be. That’s the world they want to be able to believe in. And I am never going to begrudge a person, much less a queer person, for finding healing in writing that kind of world.
But you know what else is unrealistic? What else is ultimately just a fantasy? Grinding your government’s fascist leader into paste under your boot, then taking over and remaking society into something that accepts everyone. Sadly, Trump is not likely to get his ass beat any time soon. And more generally, punching fascists, while ideologically sound, is something most people are not going to get to do, due to real-world consequences such as “getting beat up by the fascist’s angry friends” and “being arrested for assault”. And even if you did depose one leader, our very society is set up in a way that perpetuates all manner of injustices, and systemic change is a complex and lengthy process that almost certainly won’t be completed in our lifetimes. But it’s fun to imagine we could, isn’t it?
Both endings are power fantasies. Both show the way they want the world to be, rather than the way it is. They are very different power fantasies, which fill very different--and at times conflicting--needs. And in situations like that, internet culture really likes to pick one to be the right fantasy, the right way to look at the world. 
But the truth is, both fantasies are needed! Some people need stories about your queerphobic relatives finally realizing the error of their ways and taking the necessary steps to accept and reconcile with you. And some people need stories where you get to grind fascist bastards beneath the heel of your boot. It’s okay if you prefer one type of fantasy over the other! But in the end, both are valuable, and both are important. 
And isn’t it wonderful, for us to have such a diversity of great queer stories? That we can explore both of these deep, conflicting needs? Let’s appreciate each of these fantastic works for what it was meant to be, rather than trying to pit them against each other or make them conform to a single, “best” way to tell a story.
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faelapis · 6 months
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i'm not totally immune to any and all SU criticism.
i think it's fine if people treat it like any animated show - heck, any show, because nothing is perfect. that's why i don't like when people defend SU with the caveat "its not perfect, but..." cuz they would never do for a show like gravity falls or atla. if you think any media is perfect, i straight up don't trust your opinion. it should be implied already that you don't think something is perfect. if you have to specify, you sound like a child, because you sound like you think media without that caveat is perfect.
anyway. the other issue is. most people critical of SU are incapable of being normal about it. it's such a common trope on "cartoon twitter" (shudders) that someone will say something vaguely critical - like, idk, the writing being "messy in places." and you think okay, maybe this is a normal take. maybe i won't agree, but maybe this is the rare person who dislikes SU for normal reasons and you can have a real conversation with.
then you press for examples and it's almost always "fusion is sex," "diamonds are hitler," or "they SOLVE THINGS BY HUGGING???"
so yeah... no. as long as that's the baseline, i will always defend SU.
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confusedcoast · 3 months
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the silly
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ennaakat · 1 year
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garnetrena · 1 year
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Someone left an unpleasant comment on one of my Rosepearl reblogs. Of course, I've blocked them, but I need to vent. So it's a reminder that if you don't like someone's ship, you can filter the tag, unfollow/block them and mind your business
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kitsu-katsu · 1 year
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I was talking with someone about just how canon the ineffable husbands are in good omens and I brought up how Gaiman said that what they have is canonically a love story (which is really reflected in the show, with their moments of vulnerability towards the other, their despair at the thought of losing one another, their comfort with eachother, the way they stick together through millennia even when they're never trying to, etc), but they don't have labels, as they don't have genders and the human conception of intimacy eludes them as ethereal beings that aren't human
And the complications with that
Because this person I was discussing with is not as versed in fandom discourse, and so they're only now finding the vocabulary of "queer baiting" to talk about that Sherlock show
And so they're like "I hope I see Crowley and Aziraphale absolutely eat eachother's mouths, it has to be canonized" and I'm standing here like. It is canon though. Like they won't add some "hetero romance" cop-out last minute. They are canonically in a love story. What's interesting is how the label-less queerness of it can also explore non-binary aspects and an aroace perspective on what "love" is
And they're bummed out because if they don't "absolutely eat eachother's mouths" it doesn't feel as canon to them. And I'm still standing here in aroace like. Bro. There are so many forms of relationships. A kiss on screen doesn't have to make it any more or less canon
But at the same time, from the amatonormative perspective, I get how the kiss on screen is seen as the end all be all. Because in general media, the main pairings will have the kiss at the end. And they will live happily ever after with that
Before the kiss it is only as canon as the kiss is predictable, and after the kiss, you can point to that one scene as "the moment it was canonized for realsies despite even people in the show making constant remarks about this being an obvious thing"
And I kinda hate it
I just wish the whole community wouldn't have to keep its guards up like this so much to discern whether something is coming from a genuine place of wanting to tell a story for a queer audience or about a queer subject or if it's all just a ploy to get our money, spit in our faces, smile at the traditional homophobic crowd and fund some conservative party with it
Because then we wouldn't have to play it by the boring straight rules. If everything points to it being obvious, then why is an intense kiss necessary? Why is it all you want? Why can't this represent a qpr? Or a loving relationship where intimacy in the form of a kiss just isn't something the characters want? Or a more open thing instead of being a purely monogamous arrangement? Or something completely new, a dynamic you can only describe in an essay lest you don't make their chemistry justice?
Aren't all of those just a much more under-thought about queer dynamics than what "I want these characters to kiss eachother until they can't remember their names on screen or else it isn't canon enough" can convey?
But at the same time, without something as concise and strong in media language, how do you make sure it won't all stay in just subtext and the reason it looks like clear text to you is because you're starved for queer stories and have become way too accustomed to reading between the lines?
I mean, it's also been proven to not be an absolute in instances where the text goes ham in letting you know what it's saying, when it's not implying, it is just telling. For one, Rose and Pearl in Steven Universe never did share a kiss on screen, and nevertheless we all know what was going on there
Idk, it's complicated and it's 1am, and this is all just a ramble, but I am in my aroace hating amatonormativity mood and the sentiment that characters being a canon thing without an explicit kiss bums someone out to the point they say "ok, ok, I get the whole nb ace ethereal beings that aren't human idea, but I want something more explicit because it doesn't feel canon enough" when that isn't strictly necessary for the story to get it across just got me in a weird mood and this is about so much more than good omens, I needed to try and word it out and might as well put it out there
Just. Why does queerness have to be allonormative and also amatonormative to be valid in the eyes of the queer masses necessarily? You'd think we'd figured out that queerness goes beyond just the L, G, B and binary T by now
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