Tumgik
#storyline: silmarile
Text
The latest bad take on Amazon's Rings of Power is, “Rings of Power doesn’t contradict Tolkien’s canon, because there is no such thing as canon.”
I’ve seen more and more Rings of Power fans claiming that the show doesn’t go against canon because there are different versions of canon anyway, between The Silmarillion and the History of Middle-earth, and The Silmarillion wasn’t published by Tolkien, but by his son. They’re basically saying, “Canon? What canon?” And I just... No. The idea that “the show doesn’t go against canon because canon is so wishy-washy anyway” is SUCH a false argument to make.
Yes, Christopher Tolkien edited and published The Silmarillion after his father’s death. And yes, there are multiple conflicting versions of stories in The Silmarillion and HoMe. But that doesn’t mean there’s no such thing as being faithful to Tolkien’s stories. A lot of the choices Amazon has made in the show are completely wrong and would be wrong in any Tolkien adaptation.
The characterizations are totally off base. For heaven’s sake, hobbits wouldn’t abandon their own people on a journey. Elrond wouldn’t swear an oath like that. And the Númenoreans don’t hate Elves because Elves are stealing their jobs, they envy them for their immortality—it’s kind of the main theme of the Akallabêth. And, in the show, Galadriel—whose people were literally victims of the First Kinslaying—tries to steal a boat??? I mean, hello??????? Amazon hasn’t even tried to stay faithful Tolkien’s characterizations. Yes, adaptations usually take liberties with the source material, but holy shit.
And the very framing of fundamental issues is completely wrong. In the show, going to Valinor is portrayed as some sort of reward for valor in battle, which is not how it works in Tolkien’s books. The show also compressed the entire Second Age into a much shorter span of time, which is absurd and completely goes against what Tolkien wrote. The show glosses over the First Kinslaying, of course (I know it’s because they don’t have the rights, but it’s still their fault for mangling the story and themes), which makes it seem like the return of the Noldor to Middle-earth was some sort of righteous war, and it wasn’t. The list goes on and on.
And they can’t get basic details right, either. Obviously, the short-haired Elves are one example of this; so is the emblem that resembles a Fëanorian star on Galadriel’s armor. And it’s astounding how poorly the showrunners seem to understand the nuances of Tolkien’s names and constructed languages.
Tolkien was a linguist, and the languages he invented were extremely important to him and to his stories. So what did Amazon do? They completely ignored the internal logic of Tolkien’s secondary world. In The Silmarillion, Ar-Pharazôn banned Quenya in Númenor—but Amazon’s version of the character names his son a Quenya name. In the show, characters call Galadriel “Galadriel” even in Valinor, despite it being a Sindarin name given to her by her husband, Celeborn. It is anachronistic and inaccurate to refer to her by that name before Celeborn gives it to her, especially during the Years of the Trees when she didn’t even speak Sindarin. The show also gave one of the hobbits a Dwarven name, Nori, for no apparent reason. There are many more examples like this.
Amazon has also invented some things out of thin air that have no basis in Tolkien’s works at all. I understand that they had to invent original characters and storylines for this show. Inventing original characters could, in theory, work alongside canon instead of contradicting it, even though those characters aren’t found in Tolkien’s books. But mithril containing the light of a silmaril? What? And what’s with that weird bit where Amazon Elrond and Amazon Celebrimbor are talking about the silmarils and they say Morgoth cried when he looked at them and almost repented??? What the hell??? It makes no sense.
This is by no means an exhaustive list. The people who created this show have many many, many choices that completely fly in the face of Tolkien’s characterizations, worldbuilding, languages, and themes. (I haven’t watched Rings of Power and I don’t intend to, but this information is widely available if you read reviews and episode synopses.)
The show is also poorly written and ugly to look at, but that’s beside the point. The point of this post is just to say that no, just because there are multiple, conflicting versions of canon in The Silmarillion and HoMe doesn’t mean Amazon gets free reign to trample all over Tolkien’s stories. There is such a thing as making a faithful Tolkien adaptation, and this isn’t it.
952 notes · View notes
ettelenethelien · 4 months
Text
Dior is weird because he's a child of so great a mother and father... and he just is. Does no great deed. Rules as king for like 3 years at most and then dies tragically young. I've heard people say they find him perplexing for that reason and yeah. It's all so. normal. (if horrible).
The whole storyline between the two latter Kinslayings is strange when compared with the rest of the Silm. All that came earlier has such a symmetry to it. Patterns and archetypes; a tapestry with not a thread out of place - the fairytale of B&L and the tragedy of Turin - the Kinslaying, the Prophecy (one that resonates through all latter deeds); the betrayal, the rescue. The many characters' deaths come as climaxes of their arcs. And Dior's does not. He doesn't have an arc; it's just senseless violence. What's more - the Kinslaying hardly even has a clear outcome. Doriath is destroyed but the Silmaril remains out of the Fëanorians' reach and passes on to a frightened girl, who will later be threatened by her parents' killers. The only clear result is death.
This may have something to do with how this part of the Silmarillion had been more incomplete than the rest when Tolkien passed on (and arguably, the whole debacle with the dwarves and the Nauglamir is even more like that - though not the tale of Eärendil), but it's not even that I'm here to criticize it. It actually makes sense to me - here we have plain war. Not a somewhat symbolical conflict with evil, not young Tolkien sitting in the trenches and trying to find a framework for writing about heroic deeds when the war he knows is so pointless. It fits that the deaths are sudden and part of no preconceived pattern. That's what war's like. But all the same - the case of Dior is interesting. Not even because of what was, but because of what wasn't.
43 notes · View notes
elerondo · 3 months
Text
there is just something so poetic and beautiful about Elrond consistently doing for others what he would have liked for himself :> and i do think he learned the measure of tolerance and benevolence from the feanorian brothers first, before anyone else. it’s very knife twisting of me to say this, but hear me out.
the feanorians were long enemies of his house. had dealt Elros and him a great and terrible sin, and should by any and all accounts kill the twins and be done with them. would not have been the first time or last time, would not have been a surprise to anyone. yet when the Silmarils, the object of their Oath, were deemed lost to them, did the narrative change. quite drastically in fact, for a time. there was a softness that is largely non existent in the silmarillion when it comes to the house of feanor. for about ten years (?) there is no person dying in Maedhros’ and Maglor’s storyline. there is no enmity. it might be quite domestic, such as it never was since the flight of the noldor.
do you not think that Elros and Elrond would have thought the feanorians might kill them at some point in time ? the twins must have thought it. yet it never happens. they are fed, washed, clothed, by two persons instead of one ( their mother. ) it confused the twins. the days turn into weeks turn into months, and love grows. how can it not ? they are all the twins have left.
some in fandom might sue that Elros and Elrond had no choice. they were young children, impressionable. escape from the feanorians largely impossible for their skills. but if Maedhros and Maglor never killed Elros and Elrond after one month, two years, five, then surely there was a choice for the twins to cry, hate, scream, and all that. have you seen who their mother is, her stubbornness and undying pride ? the twins do have agency. they are not dumb. it was a conscious choice of understanding and forgiveness.
40 notes · View notes
thelordofgifs · 9 months
Text
the fairest stars: masterpost
Considering what a monster this fic has become, I thought it was about time I made a proper masterpost with all relevant links and info. Hopefully this makes it easier for people wanting to tackle it!
Rating: T
Relationships: Maedhros & Maglor, Beren/Lúthien, Fingon/Maedhros, Celegorm & Curufin
Characters: Maedhros, Maglor, Lúthien, Fingon, Curufin, Celegorm (and plenty of others)
The premise: a bullet point AU exploring what might happen if Beren and Lúthien managed to steal two Silmarils instead of one.
Links to the fic
the fairest stars on AO3 (currently updated up to part 30, or the end of the third arc)
On tumblr:
post i (parts 1-9)
post ii (parts 10-15)
post iii (parts 16-20)
post iv (parts 21–25)
post v (parts 26-30)
post vi (parts 31-33, where updates go currently)
Notes on reading
I think of tfs as loosely organised into story arcs; there’s a natural break point of sorts at the end of part 10 (although it’s a cliffhanger so you may not particularly want to stop there. Nonetheless, I’d advise it if it’s 4am and you’re bingeing fic instead of sleeping). The second arc ends at the end of part 20, which is even more obviously a break between storylines. The third arc ends with part 30. The fourth is currently ongoing.
Extra material
The fun part of tumblr is I can share all the behind-the-scenes notes and ramblings that don’t fit as well on AO3! I put everything tfs-related under the tag #the fairest stars, but here are some highlights.
Alternate POV scenes and missing moments:
Maedhros’ POV of That One Scene in part 14 (not essential but pretty important reading after you’ve read part 14. Not recommended if you haven’t read part 14, because spoilers, or if you find That One Scene upsetting although I can’t think why you would).
a missing moment between parts 20 and 21 (not remotely essential reading)
Fanart from the bestest loveliest most talented readers ever:
Comic of Curufin in part 10 by @biginvisiblespider
Maedhros and the slaughtered orcs from part 12 by @biginvisiblespider
Comic of Fingon and Curufin's meeting from part 14 by @biginvisiblespider
Maedhros, Maglor and the old bright songs of their childhood from part 15 by @swanhild
Comic of Fingon and Maedhros in part 20 by @welcomingdisaster
Maedhros and Maglor in part 28 by @eilinelsghost
Maglor and Lúthien in the rose garden from part 31 by @anna-dreamer
An incredible playlist by @fictionalmenjusthitdifferent: listen on YouTube here
A small selection of behind-the-scenes commentary and ramblings:
director's cut: part 6
meta on Maedhros and grief (spoilers up to part 11)
director's cut: part 11
a dissection of That One Scene (spoilers up to part 14)
meta on Fingon, Maedhros and Maglor (spoilers up to part 15)
director's cut: part 15
thoughts on part 18
director's cut: part 18
director's cut: part 20 (the beginning)
director's cut: part 20 (the end)
thoughts on Maedhros and the Oath (spoilers up to part 30)
Maedhros and Maglor in the third arc (spoilers up to part 30)
director's cut: the cheek-touching thing (spoilers up to part 30)
director's cut: the religious language thing (spoilers up to part 30)
director's cut: part 30
65 notes · View notes
Text
At SDCC showrunner John D. Payne said: “So, one, always back to Tolkien. And two, when Tolkien was silent, we tried to invent as Tolkienian a way as possible." Let's see how much of this is true...
Analysis of Amazon's "The Rings of Power"
Episode 1
Galadriel is on a quest for revenge, Gil-galad ships inconvenient people into the West, and a guy falls as a meteor out of the sky?
Let's see which parts of Tolkien's worldbuilding was used by the show, where they directly contradict what Tolkien wrote about his characters, and how much of the storyline is an Amazon invention (spoiler: all of it).
Spoiler warnings for the first episode.
Preface
I wanted to write a comprehensive overview about where Amazon's show actually adapted something from Tolkien's writing in their first episode, where they contradict Tolkien's writings, and where Amazon came up with their own inventions.
What I won't get into in this analysis is
most of the visual choices of the show. The series is a visual medium, while most of Tolkien's work isn't. Therefore I won't focus on visual differences unless a) Tolkien described something explicitly or b) it is relevant for the story, character or world building.
themes within Amazon's series or Tolkien's story. The interpretation of themes is heavily subjective, as is the assessment whether it was well integrated in the series or not. In addition, it can't be checked on an episode-to-episode basis and should be evaluated rather at the end of the season.
On a side note: I am aware that the show did not have the rights to all of Tolkien's work, but it still is their decision to either not read or consciously contradict his writings.
If I have overlooked anything in this episode, please let me know.
I'll add it with credit to the list.
Worldbuilding
Where the show references Tolkien
Locations
Tolkien's map is included, although with extensions made by the show.
Locations with the names Lindon, Rhovanion, Forodwaith and Valinor are shown.
Forodwaith is shown as a region of mostly ice and snow.
In Valinor, the Two Trees and a large city are briefly shown.
The destruction of the Two Trees is briefly shown and mentioned.
Races
The races of Elves, Dwarves, Men, Hobbits, Orcs and Trolls exist.
The Elves are immortal and have pointy ears.
The Hobbits are smaller than Men or Elves.
The concept of Elves sailing form Middle-earth to Valinor exists.
History
Elves journying from Valinor to Middle-earth is mentioned.
"The war" – probably refering to the war against Morgoth in general – is briefly shown with a few images and mentioned. Finrod is briefly shown fighting in a battle against Orcs. Morgoth's defeat is mentioned.
Somen Men have sides with Morgoth in the wars ages ago.
Language
Some of Tolkien's Quenya words and grammer are used in dialogue.
Tengwar letters and Cirth runes are used on some objects and in some places.
Where the show contradicts Tolkien
Elvish character design:
Age: Some Elves, like Celebrimbor and Gil-galad, look visibly too old. tolkien described his Elves either as youthful or as ageless in his writings, they are never supposed to look like middle-aged/older people.
Hair: The Amazon series shows most of the male Elves with short hair. However, whenever Tolkien describes the hair length of an Elf, it's long. For the Noldor and the Teleri as a whole the hair was described as long at one point.
Beauty: All of Tolkien's Elves are described as exceptionally beautiful. In Amazon's series this is not the case.
History:
The Prologue claims that it was Morgoth who "destroyed the very light of [the Elves'] home", but in Tolkien's story this was done by Ungoliant.
The Prologue also implies that the Elves went to war against Morgoth because of the destruction of the Two Trees, but in Tolkien's writings the Noldor rather left to avenge Finwë's death and the theft of the Silmarils.
Another implication of the Prologue seems to be that the Noldor never had been in Middle-earth before – or that there were no Elves in Middle-earth before their journey altogether.
No word for death: In the Amazon series, Galadriel in the intro says that they had no word for death yet. In Tolkien's writings however, at the time of Galadriel's childhood the Elves had already experienced death a) in Middle-earth during the Great Journey and b) in Valinor when Míriel died. Galadriel wouldn't have been born if Míriel hadn't died, because otherwise Finwë wouldn't have married Indis. The concept of death therefore must have existed.
Who is allowed to sail west: In the Amazon series, Gil-galad seems to decide which Elves are sailing West and which don't. This is heavily contradicting Tolkien's writings, where sailing West was open for all Elves – with the possible exception of the former leaders of the Noldorin rebellion, including Galadriel. This permission or ban came from the Valar, and not from any single elf, king of no king.
Sailing to Valinor: During the 2nd Age, the passage to Valinor over the sea was, more or less, a "normal" journey on ship. No special magic was needed to get there, and in fact sailors would reach Tol Eressëa first.
Elvish supervision of Mannish villages: The Silvan Elves in Amazon's Middle-earth seem to be ruled by Gil-galad and keep watch on human settlements east of the Ash mountains. In Tolkien's writings, Gil-galad ruled in Linon and at best over Eriador in general, but certainly not further east or south, were the Silvan Elves lived. The Silvan Elves kept to themselves and refused the rule of the Noldor, except for Galadirel in Lóthlorien in the 3rd Age. There is no record of any Mannish settlement being controlled by Elves against their will.
Meteor Man: It is impossible for any Man or Elf to fall down as a meteor and survive. However, for the few Maiar that came to Midde-earth no such incident was ever reported either: Sauron was already in Middle-earth in the 2nd Age, and the Istari came by ship.
Nori's name: Nori's full name is Elanor Brandyfoot. Elanor is a Sindarin name, and therefore an unlikely name for any Hobbit (or "proto-Hobbit") unless they had contact with Sindarin speaking Elves. However, this contact with the Sindar is unlikely to have happened in the Wilderlands east of the Anduin.
Language:
In Tolkien's 2nd Age, Westron did not exist yet. Elves and Men had trouble with communication. In Amazon's 2nd Age, everyone seems to speak the same language: Elves, Men and Harfoots. If they speak different languages, it is not made clear.
Elves are shown to speak English, but every now and then they switch to Quenya. However, it does not appear that their "English" is supposed to be Sindarin, because when Elrond writes Gil-galad's speech it's in Quenya, yet later Gil-galad gives the speech in English. Unless Elrond translated the speech into Sindarin afterwards the switch between Enlish and Quenya makes no sense.
Where the show invents their own content
Tirharad: The culture, history and current situation of Tirharad and its population is an invention of the show.
Harfoot-Hobbits in the Wilderlands: The culture, lifestyle and current situation of the Harfoot-Hobbits is an invention of the show.
Elvish culture:
Veiled Elf-women are nowere described in Tolkien's writings and an invention of the show.
The Greek/Roman-looking wreath is an invention of the show.
Elves calling healers "artificers", and they "labor [...] to render hidden truths as works of beauty" in order to heal the soul is an invention of the show.
Characters
Where the show references Tolkien
Galadriel: A character with the name Galadriel exists, who lived in Valinor for a while, has an older brother (named Finrod in the credits) and who has some connection to Gil-galad and Elrond. She has long, golden hair.
Elrond: A character with the name Elrond exists. He spends time in Lindon and has connections to Gil-galad and Galadriel.
Gil-galad: A character with the name Gil-galad exists. He is High King of the Noldor and has connections to Galadriel, Elrond and Celebrimbor.
Celebrimbor: A character with the name Celebrimbor exists. He is known as a great smith and has connections to Gil-galad.
Finrod: Galadriel's older brother (named "Finrod" only in the credits) exists. He is shown in the introduction, but is no longer alive in the present time of the show.
Sauron: A character with the name Sauron is briefly shown, and described as a servant of Morgoth, as a sourcerer and leader of armies of Orcs.
Morgoth: A character with the name Morgoth existed, and is described as the Great Foe. He is only mentioned, not shown.
Where the show contradicts Tolkien
Galadriel:
Amazon's Galadriel doesn't seem to have a husband nor a daughter. In contrast, in Tolkien's writings she gets married to Celeborn soon after the 2nd Age begins, and not long after gives birth to their daughter Celebrian.
Amazon's Galadriel has apparently spent a whole age (however long) searching for Sauron. In Tolkien's writings, Galadriel resists Sauron once she is aware of his presence, but there is no record of her actively searching for him anywhere or trying to take revenge.
Amazon's Galadriel is shown sailing West, although she stops and turns around. In contrast, Tolkien's Galadriel was "the last survivor of the princes and queens who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the overthrow of Morgoth ath the end of the First Age a ban was set upon her return, and she had replied proudly that she had no wish to do so."
Elrond:
Amazon's Elrond has light brown hair and is rather young. Tolkien describes Elrond's hair as "dark as the shadows of twilight", and at the forging of the One Ring Elrond is already over 1600 years old, and at the Downfall of Númenor even over 3000 years old.
Amazon's Elrond is not considered an Elf-lord. Given that Tolkien's Elrond is the son of Eärendil, grandson of Dior and also great-grandson of Turgon, there is no way he would not be counted among the nobility or even royalty of any Eldar society he wanders into.
Gil-galad
Amazon's Gil-galad looks older than Galadriel, although in Tolkien's writings he is from a generation younger than Galadriel, and therefore most likely younger than her.
Amazon's Gil-galad refuses to acknowledge Sauron's presence in Middle-earth. In Tolkien's writings, Gil-galad is among the first to notice Sauron's shadow, to recognise it as a threat, and to try to form alliances against it.
Amazon's Gil-galad is dressed all in gold, including gold stars. In Tolkien's writing, he is instead associated with silver and white stars.
Celebrimbor
Amazon's Celebrimbor looks too old (see above).
Galadriel's brother (Finrod)
Amazon's Finrod is killed by Sauron, after having been on a hunt for Sauron. This heavily contradicts Tolkien's writings, where Finrod was supporting his friend Beren on a mission and is killed by a wolf in Sauron's dungeon.
Amazon's Finrod seems to have a very different philosphy compared to how Tolkien has written him. In Amazon's series, when a young Galadriel asks him how to differenciate between light and darkness, Finrod's advice response is that "sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness". This seems contrary to any attitude that an Elf in Valinor before Morgoth's release would have, and especially strange for an Elf like Finrod, who had a very strong belief in Eru.
Sauron
Sauron in the series is said to have gained power after Morgoth's defeat, and that he found and killed Finrod. However, in Tolkien's writings he went into hiding until he appeared in fair form at the doorstep of the Elves. Finrod was killed by Sauron's wolf before Morgoth's defeat.
Where the show invented their own content
Galadriel: Galadriel's desire for revenge, her position as a warrior in and leader of the Northern armies, the expedition to Forodwaith, the journey with the ship and the subsequent jump into the ocean are all inventions by the show. See also the contradictions.
Elrond: Elrond writing speeches for Gil-galad is an invention by the show, as is his conscious decision to ignore warnings of Sauron's presence. See also the contradictions.
Gil-galad: Gil-galad's plan to get Galariel out of the way by sending her to Valinor because she is inconvenient is an invention by the show. See also the contradictions.
All other characters not already mentioned in the character section are inventions of the show. This includes
in Lindon: Thondir
in Tirharad: Arondir, Bronwyn, Theo, Waldreg, Revion
in Rhovanion: Nori, Poppy, Sadoc, Marigold, Malva, Largo
... and naturally all the other characters in the background.
Storyline
All three storylines – Galadriel's, Arondir's and Nori's – are the show's invention and have no basis in Tolkien's writings.
Summary
Worldbuilding: The show only uses the basics for the setup of their world, but most of them can be found in many fantasy settings. When it comes to the details, the show often contradicts Tolkien.
Characters: Most of the characters are invented by the show. The characters that are inspired by Tolkien are very differently characterised in comparison to Tolkien's writings.
Storyline: All the storylines in this episode are invented by the show, they have no basis in Tolkien's writings.
118 notes · View notes
buffyfan145 · 1 year
Text
Just got some new “Rings of Power” season 2 spoilers from Fellowship of Fans’ latest blog including a character from the books coming and more information on Celebrimbor and Halbrand/Sauron’s season 2 storylines!!! :D They also confirmed like a lot speculated that there was a storyline they scrapped with Celebrimbor with Elrond and the dwarfs in season 1 due to them having to recast the actor post-Covid and not being able to reshoot the scenes after Charles Edwards was cast. I’ve linked to their YT vid in the comments.
The main spoiler was that Narvi has been cast!!! :D They will be doing him and Celebrimbor working together too and making the Doors of Durin. There’s also speculation that Charlie Vickers hinted he’ll be filming scenes with the dwarf actors too in his Halbrand form, and Deadline already reported a lot of the new cast announced are playing the 7 dwarven kings so likely means we’ll see Sauron making their rings. This also could be how he and Celebrimbor meet back up too which will be interesting to see if Galadriel tells him Halbrand is Sauron or if Halbrand/Sauron makes up his own story to tell him. That could also mean the Annatar thing might not be happening after all so very curious how this will go.
Then there were more set pictures posted to FOF’s Twitter account showing there’s a statue now of Fëanor holding a Silmaril in one hand and a hammer in the other. Looks to be the Eregion set too and this is in the city’s center.
43 notes · View notes
gffa · 1 year
Text
In a roundabout way, I think the mithril origin story on Rings of Power was a good thing for me, because it doesn’t matter to me whether it’s apocryphal or not, I had trouble believing characters who were there for so much of the history of the war over the Silmarils would believe it, and that helped with my inability to sever the show from Tolkien’s world and trying to still see them as the same story.  I grumbled a lot and I’m even grumbling about what they might do with another character I love, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that I enjoyed the two episodes after the mithril origin story a lot more. Intellectually, I knew this story wasn’t going by the events of the books, but I still kept wanting to try to map the Kinslaying onto the show, I still kept wanting to try to map the Akallabeth’s sequence of events onto the show, I still kept wanting to try to map the Annatar storyline onto the the events of the show.  All while knowing that they couldn’t reference events they had no rights to, that they couldn’t just dance around them because they had to fill the show with something, I still kept trying to put them together. I probably still will to a degree, but I think finally being able to separate them in my mind has helped me a lot in meeting this show where it is.  I enjoyed the Adar storyline a lot more than I thought I would.  Galadriel and Theo’s interaction in this episode resonated for me in a way that I enjoyed.  I can see more and more of my Elrond and I love this Elrond’s friendship with Durin.  Miriel is still gorgeous and I love her being both vulnerable and still every inch the queen with a spine of steel.  Numenor still very much looks like I imagined it would.  I would legitimately like to see their Celeborn. I can embrace these things a lot better now that I’m not trying so hard to make this into The Silm+ show.
55 notes · View notes
laoih · 2 years
Text
Review of "The Rings of Power": Episode 5
Part 1: Contradicting Tolkien
In this fifth hour of The Rings of Power, the show massively contradicts Tolkien's writings and messes up even the half-decent storylines.
I decided to focus on the large lore break in this first part, and to review the episode for the series as itself in a separat part. I also want to focus only on two major contradictions, because all other lore breaks pale in comparison.
Failing as an adaptation
No adaptation cannot completely and fully adhere to the source material – that much I understand. Different mediums have different requirements. However, there is a large difference between changing something because it doesn't work in a medium, and completely changing one of the funamental basics of the world that the story is set in. The show already had some terrible contradictions to Tolkien's texts, but this episode once and for all shows that the series does not care for the world and history that Tolkien has created.
Because this time they messing with the Silmarils and the Elvish immortality.
The Silmarils
Touching the history of the Silmarils is no small matter, because one of Tolkien's most important stories, the Quenta Silmarillion, is centered around them. Their history is not some irrelevant detail without meaning, and therefore should always be treated with care.
And their known history in the Quenta Silmarillion ends with:
”And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.“
So not matter what some misguided Arkenstone=Silmaril followers may say, there can be no doubt about what the eventual fate of the Silmarils was at the end of the First Age.
Yet the show comes up with the idea that "the last of the lost Silmarils" was hidden in a tree "high among the peaks of the Misty Mountains". Furthermore there is a legend in the show that lightning striking the tree caused the light of the Silmaril to seep "down the roots into the mountain depths".
As a result, Gil-galad and Celebrimbor apparently believe that mithril contains "the light of the lost Silmaril".
Nothing about this makes any sense, neither light nor the Silmarils work that way. The light of the Two Trees isn't like electricity running through metal, it cannot seep down through stone. The Silmarils were unique because they were able to hold in the light of the Two Trees. Without them as a vessel, the light isn't just trickling into the ground.
But this gets even worse. There can also be no doubt about the Silmarils having no connection with the Elvish immortality at all, yet this is what the show wants us to believe.
Elvish immortality
Elvish immortality in Tolkien's work is a complex topic. Tolkien developed this idea over time, and naturally the shape of this idea was different at different states. However, there is also a certain consistancy about it in many regards, and many changes are simply due to Tolkien refining the idea more and more and adjusting it to correct aspects that were illogical or did not work in the overall context.
Tolkien's worldbuilding
And here is an essential part of the Elvish immortality as Tolkien wrote about it:
When the Elves first awoke in the darkness of Middle-earth, they were already immortal, because immortality within the world is in the Elves' anture as intended by Eru.
To exist until the end of the world is the fate of the Elves, and they cannot avoid it. If this can be changed at all, at least someone with the power of a Vala needs to be involved, if not even Eru himself.
Sooner or later, the Elvish body will fade in Middle-earth. Tolkien was not always 100% clear about whether that was always intended to happen or if it was a result of Morgoth's marring of Arda, but it was a) a very slow procress that would not be observed in Middle-earth for a long time, certainly not before the Fourth Age, and b) a result of the powerful immortal soul of the Elves.
Even if the soul has "consumed" the body of the Elves, they would still be considered to be alive and immortal, they just wouldn't be seen anymore by mortal eyes.
The Noldor were aware of this because Mandos had prophecied it.
Amazon's version
Now the show comes up with a different idea in this episode:
For some reason, the "the light of the Eldar [...] is fading". Gil-galad suspected it to be a result of war somehow and that's why he send Galadriel with her negative thoughts away, but it obviously didn't work.
They now believe that the Elves now have to leave Middle-earth until spring or perish: their immortal soulds would "dwindle into nothing, slowly diminishing, until [they] are but shadows, swept away by the tides of time".
As a new counter meassure Gil-galad and Celebrimbor now believe that mithril may be the salvation of the Elves because "nothing diminishes its light" and that if they can "secure vast quantities of it quickly, enough to saturate every last Elf in the light of the Valar once more" they can avoid the fading.
This massively contradicts what Tolkien wrote. For some reason the Elves need to be charged with the light of the Two Trees to keep their immortality, and this is simply bullshit. It also completely disregards all the Elves that have never been to Valinor.
It changes the fading into a death sentence for the Elves, something it is not intended to be. Sure, some Elves in Tolkien's writings may resent or dread it, and it is sometimes associated with getting "weaker", but that usually came from a place of not wanting to make place for the Age of Men, of wanting to stay relevant and powerful for example as a lord within the tangible world. It never meant that the Elves would be "swept away by the tides of time".
And the artificial deadline of spring is also laughable.
Everything about this is just nonsense.
Possible setup
Now, I suspect the show tries to create a motivation here why the Elves would eventually created the Rings of Power.
In canon, the Rings have the power of perservation, but the issue is not the preservation of the Elves because they would otherwise "dwindle into nothing", but the fact that everything else is constantly dying and the Elves have a hard time dealing with that. That is why Lothlórien is such a timeless place when the fellowship reaches it in Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.
If the show now tries to make this about the preservation of the Elves themsevles, they have basically turned the whole thing on its head, proving once more that they haven't understood a thing about Tolkien's stories.
Possible "plottwist"
There is a small chance that Gil-galad and Celebrimbor are just lying to Elrond, or that Celebrimbor is just lying to Gil-galad and Elrond, or that somehow Annatar in the background is lying to all three of them.
But if that storyline is what they're going for then they create two other major problems:
One or several of these Elves are absolute morons for believing this lie.
All the drama with the Dwarves that now results from this lie was wasted time because it was build on the Elves being morons.
...I cannot imagine any way in which this plotline is still salvageable, and I truly hate what this part of the story turned into in general.
It's made even worse because it's dumb within the context of the series as well, which I will adress in the 2nd part of the review once I get to it.
22 notes · View notes
sweetteaanddragons · 2 years
Text
Rings of Power: Episode 5 Thoughts
For the first half of this episode, I thought I wouldn’t have much to say about it. 
I was very wrong.
Harfoot Storyline
- If the stranger does indeed turn about to Gandalf, his questioning of Nori about language as he slowly learns it will make his later “What do you mean when you wish me good morning?” scene with Bilbo much funnier. And also slightly tragic if you assume Gandalf is also thinking back to Nori.
- Are the Gray Marshes what’s later going to become the Dead Marshes? Or did I just jump to conclusions when I saw the word marsh?
Numenor Storyline
- Probably my least favorite right now because Galadriel annoys me, Halbrand is suspicious, and I didn’t particularly care for the directions Isildur and Earien went in this episode. Still gorgeous, though.
- And I’m really enjoying their characterization of Pharazon. His explanation of his plans for Middle Earth helped me get a better glimpse of Numenor’s potential story arc over the next five seasons. (Assuming, of course, all five get made.)
Arondir’s Storyline
- I started enjoying this storyline again this week. I especially appreciated the novel twist of Theo admitting the truth about the sword with zero outside pressure or inconveniently timed interruptions. It was like watching a preemptive fix-it fic play out on screen.
- I feel like, given Adar’s reaction to being called Sauron, we can rule him out as a Sauron candidate now. Which is more or less what I expected, but it does heighten the issue of what is real identity is, if not Sauron.
Elrond
- Oh, Elrond.
- Slightly annoyed by Earendil being called 100% mortal. It simplifies things, I guess, but it annoys me.
- Very annoyed by the way Gil-Galad calling Elrond peredhel sounded like he was using it as an insult.
- On the plus side, the whole “we’ll fade by spring” thing explains Celebrimbor’s haste in building the forge. I’m presuming that this deadline is based on the presumed timeline re: the tree dying.
- On the minus side, I’m very confused as to just why the tree dying = elves fading.
- Also, Gil-Galad’s blasé attitude towards oath breaking was bizarre. As was his insistence it was necessary; the very fact Elrond swore an oath to keep quiet seems a clear indication that something’s there, and if it wasn’t mithril, Elrond could just say that. Why, exactly, does he need to hear the exact words from Elrond’s lips?
- Maybe Gil-Galad’s Sauron and he’s trying to tempt Elrond into oathbreaking.
- Everything about the Silmaril mythology here is just - bizarre. Especially the idea that mithril contains Silmaril light.
- So would Maglor have to try to claim all the mithril ore on the planet, or -
- I was very pleased that Elrond did his best to keep the oath and stay a true friend to Durin. I was also very pleased that after Durin’s, “I’m sorry, say what?” reaction that it’s clear he decided pretty much immediately to help.
- Still feel like Elrond should have had a stronger reaction to learning his mithril ore might have silmaril light though. Given. You know. Everything.
- He should either be casting that thing into the ocean or using it as Maglor bait, is what I’m saying.
- I should write that. I probably won’t. But I should.
25 notes · View notes
imflevrett · 7 months
Text
The prospect of Glorfindel appearing in The Rings of Power
Well "It was evening, there was nothing to do". I just want to express my feelings and opinion, rather for myself, nothing more. I'm not trying to offend anyone.
I really love this character, so after watching the ROP, I realized that I don't want to see his interpretation from Amazon, even though I realize that ROP is more of a big AU of the Tolkien universe due to their situation with the lack of rights to the Silmarillion, as a result of which the entire main layer of the world is removed and changed the second era in every way in the ROP – the storylines, the characters' characters, their history and, apparently, the appearance and characteristics of the races too (?)– in general, the free interpretation of Amazon, with maintaining the basic idea of creations the rings; the most expensive AU fanfic I saw in my life (fanfiction is not an insult, I favor fanfiction, so, it's not bad, it's just that this particular one didn't go very well for me, although the views of the places were beautiful).
Well, after what they did with the character design of Finrod in ROP (no complaints to the actor, only the design), I'm afraid of what they might do with Glorfindel, If they put him on the show in the future.
It would be better if he wasn't in the show at all, than to see him without his light, possibly played by a man at an advanced age (even if he is a great actor), despite the fact that Laurefinde is an elf (well, I won’t be surprised, there is a precedent, and please don't confuse this with some kind of disdain for old age or something like that – I like grandpas in movies, look at my avatar; no, this is a simple and understandable desire to see Tolkien's believable elves {not some Terrence Brooks elves} on the screen – a representative of ANOTHER race that doesn't age – I noticed Tolkien’s elves race attribute, such as not aging {unless you have reached the age of Cirdan the Shipwright and at the same time didn't live in Valinor} began to be ignored in ROP}, or/and than see him with a very short fashionable haircut or some kind of haircut under 0 with shaved temples (whereas his golden flowing hair is glorified by almost all Arda and he literally radiates power and shining after resurrection)
Also I don't want to see how Glorfindel is shown with a complete disregard for his past with the exodus of the Noldor, life in Gondolin, with his self-sacrifice, incarnation in the West, due to the fact that they don't have rights to the Silmarillion and they cannot reveal all this (like with the replacement of the impressive death of Finrod, again due to the lack of rights to use the Beren and Luthien story and Silmarills), even a small part.
if all of the above happens and without the main part of his past, or his past will be changed (who knows, everything is possible here), the character will not be Glorfindel, but simply an original character (OC) with the same name.
As it happened, for example, with Celebrimbor – the actor played well, but the character is perceived as a very old elve, with a similar name, close in age to Cirdan the Shipwright, but still without a beard, having good skill in blacksmithing and ambition, and since the Silmarillion is not in this universe with its time frame and the history of the Celebrimbor's family, with kinslaying and Silmarills, with all of his past, then it's possible to imagine this is the way it is; and therefore he turned out to be a good original character for the story.
But still, about Glorfindel – even in AU, it is better, only in my opinion, then not to introduce him at all, than if they break the character in order to shove him into the series, or get another OC, even a good one (of course, unless a miracle happens and they make every effort to make Glorfindel as close to the book as possible). I know that most likely he will be introduced into the series, whether I want it or not.
Again, I repeat, I just wanted to express my opinion and desire, if someone doesn't agree with this, or someone didn't like it at all, it's okay, this is how different opinions work.
Tumblr media
2 notes · View notes
Note
Just gonna put it out here
My dad has been really invested in Rings of Power and has been asking me a lot of questions related to the first age like what are the silmarils, who's feanor, etc. He used to be an avid Tolkien fan and introduced me to the world himself and he has asked me several time to enjoy TRoP because it's "Good if you think it as outside of Tolkien"
If I had to enjoy something Tolkien-but-not-really-Tolkien then I'd enjoy Eragon or something like that, definitely not something like TRoP which is basically a fanfiction off Tolkien that is massacring storylines and characters.
The Tolkien tags used to be so different that i now have to avoid almost all of it 😭. I have nothing against those who are enjoying the show, but absolutely have personal problems against the show. Look what they did to my boy Finrod. We don't talk about Sauron. If TRoP is getting money then fanfiction writers too should get money off their stuff because it's basically the same thing at this point.
Sorry, I forgot to post this. I got caught up in my own wailings XD
"Good if you think it as outside of Tolkien" seems to be a running theme. People I work with are enjoying the show. I'm the only one who seems to have a problem. I'm also the only one who spends waaaaay too much of my time thinking about the Silm (hello special interest and hyperfixation). Though I'm not the only person who has read Tolkien in the group, anyone else who has has only read LotR and therefore doesn't really have anything to reference the show against.
But you're right, it can be dificult to enjoy it as a thing outside of Tolkien when what they've produced is a step down from the original work. I will also say that I found it hilarious that you mentioned Eragon because that also had a disasterous adaptation XD And contains many elements that very much make it a Tolkien fanfic in itself (don't get me wrong, I had my Eragon phase like the rest of us!)
As for the tags... well... the show is new. The show fandom and book fandom are overlapping quite a lot at the moment, but from looking at the films I feel like things will settle down and maybe separate out better? I don't know. This is just another instance of making sure you manage your online experince well. The unfollow and block buttons are your friends. I'll admit I've done a good bit of unfollowing in the last couple of days, either of people or of tags and you know what? My dash is almost completely back to normal! I just need to block some TROP specific tags and I think we'll be good.
It's sad, I get it. I don't normally actually go searching through specific tags, I follow enough people that my dash is interesting on it's own. Yet even for me, it felt... wrong.. to be unfollowing the Sauron tag. I'm not ashamed to say that I have a feeling of complete strangers ruining something I love deeply (I literally carry around my knitted Sauron when I'm having a tough time, becuase he is very much my comfort character who I must have just so). But despite that, the fandom circles that we're used to still exist, we just need to make sure we're interacting with the right people for what we want to see.
Sorry, if that little speech came off as weirdly patronising? I'm after getting most of the horror out of my system now and am quite happy to not catastrophise about the fandom as a result of the show. I'll probably still pass comment for the next little while becuase I don't have the self control not to, but other than that I think "Unfollow, Block, Curate" needs to be the mantra for now and we'll see that we can continue on as we always have.
Lastly, on money. Unfortunately legalities like rights make all the difference in money terms. Let's not bring the angry ghost of Anne Rice down upon ourselves (though, the new Interview with the Vampire adaptation seems to be beeing met well XD)
18 notes · View notes
tolkien-feels · 2 years
Note
One thing has always confused me and I'm wondering if you could help me out. In LOTR when Aragorn is telling the Hobbits the story of Beren and Luthien at weathertop he says that the story is a sad one and the ending is not know. But... don't we know the end of the story? Does he say that because Tolkien finished FOTR before he got to the end of B&L?
I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Tolkien is hinting at his inability to finish his poetic versions of the Lay of Leithian, as he really often says this kind of thing ("it's been incorrectly said" is usually code for "I have written it somewhere and changed my mind" for example), but I think the answer is much less meta. What Aragorn says is
‘I will tell you the tale of Tinúviel,’ said Strider, ‘in brief – for it is a long tale of which the end is not known; and there are none now, except Elrond, that remember it aright as it was told of old. It is a fair tale, though it is sad, as are all the tales of Middle-earth, and yet it may lift up your hearts.’
I'm pretty sure he's referencing this fact:
No mortal man spoke ever again with Beren son of Barahir; and none saw Beren or Lúthien leave the world, or marked where at last their bodies lay.
After Luthien becomes mortal, we get only a couple of mentions to what the two of them are up to (always in connection to Dior the Silmaril-Nauglamir-Dior storyline), but it's not really a story anymore. They're considered to be alive for 34 years, but even that date is a guess. For almost all intents and purposes, after they return to Middle Earth, their story stops being told even though they spend like half a mortal lifespan living on.
(Ultimately you could also say that where mortals go when they die is unknown, but that'd be a pretty weird thing for Aragorn, a mortal, to reference when talking to the equally mortal hobbits, so although I've said people put this theory forward, I don't personally buy it.)
30 notes · View notes
scifitheywrote · 2 years
Text
If you just treat LOTR ROP as high budget fan fiction I promise it’s much better
Does the silmaril storyline make sense? Absolutely not. Do I care ? Not one bit, because I’m still laughing about Durin stealing the table. That’s high quality fanfic level shenanigans right there.
11 notes · View notes
erynalasse · 2 years
Note
What do you suppose might happen in a world where, instead of Luthien being given the choice of mortality, Beren is given the choice of immortality? How might the world change if these two don't fade into the black?
Oooohoohoo.
My first instinct is to guess, well, not much? It’s canon that Beren and Lúthien just fucked off to a far corner of Ossiriand and took an early retirement. We don’t even know how long they lived during their second lives, just that they had a son, and that they had shorter lives than expected because they were so full of bliss. It feels plausible to read this withdrawal as general disinterest in the larger events of Beleriand. Beren only wandered back into the main narrative to slay the dwarves who killed Thingol.
There are any number of reasons why Beren and Lúthien chose a solitary life after their resurrection. Lúthien choosing not to return to Doriath feels a bit like anger towards Thingol over the quest. Can’t blame her there. In general, Lúthien has to go away from society if she truly wants peace; she’s a princess, and an oddity, and a heroine to boot now. And ultimately, I think she and Beren may have wanted to spend their short second lives together. They lost so much for it; I think they earned it.
If that last consideration is the main reason Beren and Lúthien withdrew, well then! Immortality removes the ticking clock! If you have forever to spend with each other, then you have time to spare. At the very least, I think Beren and Lúthien would not have sat by while Doriath was attacked by the sons of Fëanor. Thingol’s death is the one thing that brought back Beren, so surely both of them would help their son. I think the reason they didn’t in canon is probably because they were already dead.
In fact, with sufficient advance warning, I think the two of them—really Lúthien—could have held off the Fëanorions entirely. The reason why the Fëanorions could invade Doriath at all was because Melian’s Girdle fell. Lúthien inherited a large portion of her mother’s powers; could she have erected something like the Girdle? I think so! And if she could have, I think she would for Dior’s sake.
And if the Girdle or something like it is in place, Doriath doesn’t fall and the sons of Fëanor do not follow the Silmaril to Sirion. It’s unclear if this is actually a good thing, or whether it just means bad things happen in a different way! Because the Oath is a terrible thing and it spares nobody and nothing, and I don’t know what the Fëanorions would have done to appease it if Doriath was unassailable. You could take this in a number of ways.
Another interesting thought: perhaps Beren and Lúthien would have had more children if they’d had the time. Endless possibilities there. New characters, new bloodlines, new storylines!
26 notes · View notes
thelordofgifs · 1 year
Text
A Slightly Scary Thing is occurring tomorrow morning so I'm coping with the stress by going to bed rambling about the fairest stars! (the Beren and Luthien steal 2 Silmarils AU I've been slowly posting on tumblr - now with a title and also a tiny meme I thought was funny)
I'm still not very sure how everything is going to pan out (Fingon keeps refusing to show up even though I want him to), but one realisation I have worked out is what exactly the Maedhros and Maglor storyline is doing - specifically, its Themes and Concepts, which I'm rather pleased with having figured out. When I introduced M&M into the AU in the first place, I realised it was SO important that they're still reckoning with Maedhros' time in Angband, the fact that Maedhros went to the parley in the first place and the fact that Maglor left him there. With the addition of their brothers' actions in Nargothrond, this makes M&M much more wary of the Oath and its consequences than Celegorm and Curufin canonically were.
But what I realised fully today I'd hit upon was that the specific trauma that binds the pair together is about leaving each other, and that's been driving them both in parts 1, 2 and 3 without my noticing! When Maglor is drifting on the edge of death, Maedhros tells him, over and over, "stay with me", and later at the critical moment he calls him back with the words "come back to me". Then as Maglor's recovering he tells Maedhros, "I dreamed you left me, or else I you," a line I'm extremely pleased with because in fact both are true. Maedhros left Maglor when he went to the Angband, and Maglor left him when he didn't rescue him (NOT that he was at all wrong to do that as I've previously argued!!).
Pretty much immediately after Maglor says that, of course, Maedhros leaves him to go on a wolf-hunting death quest, even though he says he doesn't want to do so. They never want to leave each other, you see. They keep doing it anyway.
23 notes · View notes
rivalsforlife · 1 year
Text
anyways really quick immediate lotrop thoughts now that I found my reaction gif
Tumblr media
it’s actually really funny I started laughing hysterically at this exchange between me and my laptop screen:
halbrand: consider it...
me: “a gift”
halbrand: a gift
me: FUCK YOU
anyways.
the good: stranger going east suggests he probably is a blue wizard but I have no faith in them anymore. if he’s a blue wizard? good. they did something interesting.
THE BAD:
FUCKING HALBRAND. IS SAURON. I SUPPOSE. WHY DOES HE LOOK LIKE THAT!!!
I just feel like damn. what a waste of a potential interesting storyline of nazguls and humans for the shock of “it was sauron all along!!!” ugh.
I’m listening to a discussion of the episode or whatever I want to see how dr olsen feels about this all if he can still be optimistic about this. so my thoughts might be disjointed and incoherent BUT NOT AS INCOHERENT AS MY RAGE!!!
my other visceral reaction was when halbrandsauron grabbed galadriel’s face and I just went. FUCK YOU TAKE YOUR HANDS OFF HER. STAB HIM GALADRIEL. STAB HIM. STAB HIM. STAB HIM. STAB HIM. STAB HIM. STAB HIM repeatedly and unfortunately she did not.
Also they invoked galadriel’s incredible all shall love me and despair speech. which makes me angry. because I don’t want that to be tainted for me WITH TEH THOGUHT OF SAURON BEING. UGH. I ACAN’T EVEN SAY IT!! I’M SO MAD. it’s okay. I can go back to the books and pretend this did not happen. still the gate is closed!
also? celebrimbor got totally shafted this whole season. and the annatar plotline took a massive hit. which is really what’s supposed to carry me through the first three seasons. SO I’M MAD ABOUT THAT.
I’M ALSO MAD THAT MITHRIL APPARENTLY HAS SILMARILS IN IT. WHY DID THEY DO THAT? WHY COULDN’T THAT BE A LIE? I’M SOOOO ANGRY ABOUT THAT NOW THAT I DON’T HAVE PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY
ugh I mean my dad is going to watch it tomorrow I’ll watch it with him we’ll talk about it. but right now i’m not feeling optimistic about the future of this show and I’m so mad about it. I’ll try to contain the rest of my whinings to like... discord where people can ignore me more. 
I mean I might just ignore it. because like... I don’t want to get worked up and angry about this I feel like that’s just not fun. I tried being optimistic. and that carried me through some interesting things. I just really don’t like how this all turned out? like I feel like they deviated enough from what was In My Head that this is now a completely different story... sigh.
anyways I don’t even know what I’m thinking so I’ll end the whining here for now thank you
7 notes · View notes