#team JNOR

[superiorsturgeon]

Follow-up to this:

Ruby: …so that’s the big news! I guess I’m having Jaune’s baby now since Yang has stopped trying to murder him.

Yang: 😤 My righteous fury has momentarily subsided into a slow, seething anger.

Ruby: ANYWAY, what do the rest of you guys think?

Weiss: I call organizing a baby shower!

Ren: I’ll set up a prenatal nutrition plan!

Blake: *gently pushes Ruby down on a nearby couch and cracks her knuckles* Lie down, Ruby, and let me give you a traditional Menagerie-style massage for new mothers!

Oscar: Awesome! I won’t be the smallest member of my found family anymore!

Nora: Oooh, ooh, I call godmother and best aunt!

Yang: Back off, Valkyrie! That’s my baby sister’s baby! If anyone is best aunt it’ll be me!

Nora and Yang promptly begin wrestling for aunt supremacy.

Ruby: 😨 Uh, Jaune?! HELP?!

Jaune: 🥰 Aww! Just like my family when Saphron had her first baby!

#rwby #team rwby #team jnor #jaune arc #ruby rose #weiss schnee #yang xiao long #lie ren #nora valkyrie #blake belladonna #oscar pine #ruby rose x jaune arc #jaune x ruby #lancaster #they’re all excited for the baby

[seasicksilver]

trans people who look at you 

#rwby #rwby fanart #jnor #team jnor #jaune arc #nora valkyrie #lie ren #oscar pine #fan art #digital art #artists on tumblr #my art #realized i can literally draw them how i want to #now im thriving

[neopoliitan]

I was originally just drawing Pyrrha for #RWBYValentinesDay , but Jaune's artist unfortunately had to pull out so I offered to do the banana boy too! My teammates for JNPPR were: @MiChumi (Nora), @de_b0o (Oscar) and @mixed_coffee (Ren)!

#rwby #rwby art #rwby fan art #rwby fanart #art #fanart #rwby valentines day #jaune arc #nora valkyrie #pyrrha nikos #oscar pine #lie ren #team jnpr #jnpr #jnor #ornj #jnppr

[joshuamj]

I want to see my boys RWBY :(( Like ngl, they're the only reason i still keep up with the show...

#rwby #oscar pine #ozpin #rwby ozpin #rwby oscar #josh art tag #like i enjoy the other characters n stuff #but im really only invested in these 2 and their characters and story #also like team jnor too! its sweet how oscars joined the group #but we might not see them at all this volume :((( #at least theres jaune #like im sorry team rwby ur cool n all #and i am curious to see whats going on with ruby #but my heart belongs to jnor and oscar and oz specifically

[vaciena]

I’m pretty ambivalent to canon!Jaune. I think he’s a bit bland, and he annoyed me a lot in the early seasons, but his character arc since v4 has changed a lot of the things I didn’t like, and I’m interested to see where he goes in the future.

Fanon!Jaune pisses me off

#i just want to find fics to read and not have to sort through five billion Jaune centric fics that miss the point of his character first #but filtering him out removes the good fics that actually go into his and Ruby’s friendship and #develop team jnpr/jnor/etc #why are you making him somehow sexy he’s a dorky awkward but kind idiot and that’s the point

[tumblezwei]

This might be a controversial one, but I wanted to mention that Ruby feeling that she has to be responsible for her team and be the one in charge isn't something that she like, made up. Like it's not just her own expectations of herself that led to her bottling everything up and not seeking help.

WBY+JNOR do rely on Ruby in ways they don't with each other. Lest we forget:

And this isn't a bad thing, it's not wrong for them to rely on Ruby. But this is one moment that I think explicitly set up the problem that volume 9 is currently addressing. How Blake was pleading for an unconscious Ruby to get up, because they needed her. And that moment of exhaustion is covered up because Blake needed her so of course she's going to force herself to get up.

Ruby is consistently given the final verdict on a lot of their decisions, she often has the burden of what to do next placed on her even when it's a team effort to find a solution.

"I have a plan!" "You always do."

"You gave us the courage to follow you."

"We'll follow your lead, Ruby."

Jaune directly blames her for Atlas falling and Neo attacking despite the plan being a group effort.

This isn't really directed an any one specific post, but I dunno. I've just seen some things and I feel like analysis of Ruby is creeping toward this "she set herself up" kind of thing. Her breakdown was absolutely fueled by her own disillusionment with heroism and leadership, but I think it's good to remember that she did have some unrealistic expectations heaped onto her.

#rwby #rwby9 #rwby spoilers #rambling #ruby rose #my girl #discourse tag #I guess

[tr33hvgger]

jaune confiding in oscar was so sweet, but it hurts that they lost their connection with their team. that was their, their peers. those were the people they were able to relate to the most.

but now theyre so much older than them all. they even raised kids while in the ever after. jaunes not the same kid jnor used to know.

yet theyre still not the old man. they might not be able to make any meaningful bonds with people like raven or winter because theyve matured naturally unlike jaune. jaunes a combination of the tortured old man in the ever after and the optimistic teen from remnant.

jaunes both 19 and 39. and the only person that can truly get that struggle between mind and body is oscar and ozpin.

#rwby #rwby beyond #rwby volume 9 #jaune arc #oscar pine #professor ozpin #-🌹

[gorillageek27]

I love that team rwby is always be a four girl group meanwhile team jnor is just ever expanding. At this point jnor has more than four members

#rwby #jaune arc #yang xiao long #ruby rose #nora valkyrie #blake belladonna #weiss schnee #lie ren #oscar pine #emerald sustrai

[bestworstcase]

Your thoughts on semblances are fascinating! Have you pondered the possible semblance our favorite war machine magical girl Penny might’ve had? If she’d had the time to discover it for herself. Thoughts on why she didn’t have a semblance?

i think the answer to why she never manifested a semblance is probably right there: she was built to be a weapon of war. the atlesian military built a robotic super-soldier and then gave it the soul of an idealistic young girl who just wanted everyone—including herself—to be safe, free, and happy. she was was kept isolated and taught to expect harsh rejection from anyone who found out she wasn’t a “real girl,” then murdered to make a political statement, then brought back and isolated again and made responsible for the safety of an entire city where civilian self-defense is criminalized. whatever her semblance might have been, penny wasn’t going to find it while being crushed in the jaws of that machine.

this is not true of every character, but it is true of a lot: a character’s semblance often reflects or represents how they deal with problems. when ruby’s on her game, she thinks miles ahead of anyone else and zips around obstacles like they’re not even there—when she isn’t, she falls apart and runs away. yang takes whatever life throws at her and finds strength in adversity through sheer refusal to give up. blake knows how to mask her vulnerability and retreats from things she isn’t ready to face, but when she is ready she’ll fling herself headlong at the problem with everything she has. jaune doesn’t care what happens to him, but he’ll do anything for his friends. ironwood will sacrifice whatever it takes to achieve his ends, no matter the cost. et cetera.

penny is a character so defined by the unstoppable force-meets-immovable object struggle between duty and desire, what she needs to do versus what she wants to do versus what she’s able to do, that i feel any semblance posited for her has to speak to that somehow or another to feel right for her.

how does penny deal with her problems? how does she try to extricate herself from between the rock and the hard place?

tries to have the rock and eat the hard place too, mainly. penny needs to be the protector of mantle and she wants friends, which the protector of mantle “doesn’t have time for,” so she tries to befriend everyone up and down her chain of command. but when the chips are down and penny has to make a choice, she chooses to do what she wants—holds her best friend in her final thoughts so she can say goodbye, rather than take the pragmatic/strategically correct option of giving the magic to weiss.

and. there is also: “let me take the relic to salem, and maybe she will call off her attack on the kingdom.”

penny is at best passively suicidal in v8 and i do think that influences her thinking here, but also—it’s safe to assume team rwby looped jnor in on what went down in ironwood’s office, including salem offering the terms of her siege, because oscar’s response (“i don’t think we can trust salem to actually do that”) suggests awareness of what salem said (“the people of atlas have suffered enough; surrender the lamp and the staff to me, and they needn’t suffer any further.”)

everyone else takes it for granted that salem is lying through her teeth. penny does not. she doesn’t take salem at her word either—maybe she will call off her attack—but she is the only character who even considers that salem might have been honest. as the winter maiden, penny is also the one who gets final say over whether or not that vault is opened, and it is her responsibility to decide. her instinct, in this situation, with this burden on her shoulders, is to spend a lot of time quietly thinking about it in the corner while everyone else quarrels, and then hesitantly question the assumption that salem cannot be negotiated with. oscar shuts that down and yang adds “no one is turning you over to anybody” (notice how penny goes from active subject to passive object there? “let me take the relic to salem” -> “no one’s turning you over.”) so nothing comes of it.

but it’s uh. probably not an accident that Penny Polendina is the first Good Guy to consider taking a risk on salem.

and i think it’s instructive to imagine how things might have gone if penny put her foot down and said no, let’s really talk about this. because “let me take the relic to salem” does not mean “let me deliver the relic to salem on a silver platter and then lie down for cinder fall to kill me” necessarily, penny is thinking in terms of a bargaining chip, and this is penny we’re talking about. penny is not a pushover penny is absolutely, one hundred percent, the kind of person who would have flown up there with the staff and very bluntly demanded to know Why Salem Is Doing This and Will She Really Leave If Penny Gives Her The Staff. and then done her level best to explode the whale if she didn’t find salem’s answers persuasive.

which—bringing this back to the question at hand—is sort of the distilled essence of how penny Deals With Things when she’s acting in accordance with her own best judgment. see also, amity, and “i can fix this,” and holding up an entire satellite on her shoulders.

she does not do half measures or harm reduction or damage control; she does i can fix this. she does maybe i can get salem to turn around and leave.

unstoppable force, immovable object.

so what’s her semblance? how do we convey this essence symbolically? (there is the obvious answer of just taking “immovable force” literally, but i don’t think penny would have a combat-oriented semblance for thematic reasons.)

have you ever heard of the pinocchio paradox? it’s a variant of the liar’s paradox (“this sentence is false”) occurring when pinocchio says “my nose grows now”—if it is true, then his nose does not grow, which means he is lying, which means his nose does grow, which means he is telling the truth and so forth. there is, i think, some appealing thematic strings to pluck here in that it’s a fairly common trope in science fiction for artificial intelligences to be stymied by liar’s paradoxes; penny, being a person, would not have this problem. likewise she is honest to a fault whereas pinocchio is, famously, a liar. and infinite regress is an unstoppable force of a kind.

what’s the immovable force? how do you solve the liar’s paradox? there are many ways, some more interesting than others, but one is to reject the bivalent logic and conclude that the statement is neither true nor false. take the excluded middle road. if the unstoppable force is true-false-true-false-true-false in a vicious spiral, the immovable object might be equivocation. maybe. it depends.

i tend to think penny’s semblance would entail splitting the difference in some form or another. the thorny piece for me is deciding in what form and context, because again i think for thematic reasons it can’t be combat-oriented. some way of refusing a fight is conceptually interesting to me; something like creating a space or a moment where violence isn’t just not the answer but isn’t possible. maybe a sort of reverse of gus caspian’s semblance, a wind that banishes volatile feelings and brings emotional clarity. an answer to “i do not like it when friends fight.”

[notmaplemable]

#rwby #rwby polls

[citadelofmythoughts]

RWBY's "Cast Bloat" criticism has never sat well with me because of how, well, a story about traveling a fantasy world or going to a super school needs supporting characters. No matter how small the runtime is, we can't just got someplace and not have it characterized via it's people. Furthermore, interacting with other characters beyond their circle of friends is how Team RWBY and co. actually grow.

How it's done is something worth talking about but Robyn is somebody who prodes Team RWBY into seeing that playing ball with Ironwood might not be worth it. Especially as Mantle's problems are brushed off by him.

Maria is an actual Silver Eyed Warrior who has the insight on how the powers work and helps Ruby get a grasp upon her powers that Oz knows diddily about.

Principal Leo foreshadows the truth about Ozpin via his betrayal, especially as he seems more scared of Salem than being just secretly evil.

Raven as well in how she takes the approach of, "We're all screwed in the end so might as well keep your head above water," when it comes to the world that had abandoned her and her brother.

If it was just Team RWBY or JNOR, well, that'd be boring.

It's never made much sense to me. RWBY are the main characters but they're not the ONLY characters.

In order for a world to feel like a living, breathing place you've got to populate it with memorable characters.

I mean, could you have told the Atlas Arc without the Happy Huntresses or The Ace Ops? Maybe...but seeing the events unfold through multiple perspectives made the story richer.

[dragynkeep]

Ironwood: *Provides Yang with a prosthetic arm, Immediately releases the heroes from the arrest, lays all his cards on the table at once, trust them to keep a world-changing tool in their posession, upgrades the their weapons and gear, promotes them all to professional huntsmen*

QRWBY & JNOR: Imma pretend I didn't see that, I don't like this dude's vibes, he shady

Emerald: *Manipulates the heroes by putting up a friendly front, kills Penny, traumatizing Ruby and Pyrrha, helps orchestrate the fall of Beacon that entailed hundreds of casualties, takes part in the fall of Haven, assists Cinder in trying to kill Penny (again) and stop her from launching Amity like a day before she joins the team at the eleventh hour, doing little to nothing to regain their trust*

RWBY & JNOR a few hours later: awww she mad haha welcome to the team Em

The fact that ~Emerald, who cause the deaths of countless innocents, Penny, Pyrrha, indirectly led to Yang losing her arm, Weiss nearly dying, attacked Penny AGAIN, and was with Salem for over half of the invasion of Atlas that killed more countless people-

was welcomed far quicker than the man who literally helped RWBY every step of the way, put his upmost trust in them by giving them their licenses, new weapons, housed them, trusted them completely with the plan with no secrets, and even listened to them up until they literally went behind his back and their lying was exposed, is my villain origin story.

The fact that the heroes were shown as justified in their reactions to Ozpin, who didn't even do half the shit they did, while painting Ironwood as irrational and should be lied to when he'd done nothing to justify that beyond the American white writers getting scared that a shut down country reeling from a terrorist attack would enforce a curfew, is aggravating.

And it shows because so many people before V8 were actually on Ironwood's side, or at least pointed out that RWBY were being hypocrites and not being held accountable by the narrative! So the writers went "We'll just make him stupid evil and a genocidal general so everyone who sided with him in the previous volume was wrong to do so".

Like, can we all agree they just fucked up writing actual nuance and grey morality already? It's far easier than trying to justify their dogshit writing.

#rwby #rwde #james ironwood #emerald sustrai #answered #luke.txt #nevermind the ableism that they threw at ironwood like these writers don't care about marginalised people #or writing stories where their fav wank fodder might actually not be right all the time #shock and horror

[strqyr]

i found it so telling in v8 that their conflict over which plan to follow took up nearly an entire episode, bc they were all so terrified by what that division meant, whereas the happy huntresses had no problem splitting off to help them out. like, this adult functional team NOT wrapped up in ozpin's shit has no problem splitting off to achieve different parts of the same goal

they're secure enough, both in terms of their relationships to each other, but also like... that their intentions are good? idk how to phrase it. team rwby/jnor are all terrified and convinced that the mere act of having different goals is actually aiding Salem/evil more nebulously.

and while they were able to split off to do their different tasks on... okay terms, that underlying anxiety is still present here. don't say that, you sound like ironwood. cheer jaune up about the PP, we can't let him be sad about this thing he's lost, that only spreads negativity.

the most interesting part of rwby to me is the larger implications of the grimm being drawn to negativity, right? like, toxic or not (and it is), there is a strategic reason to squash negative emotions

But the Ever After doesn't have grimm. it is quite literally the safest place for these kids to sort out their emotions, to feel those negative emotions.

but until they realize that and allow themselves to feel those negative emotions unrestrained, they'll be stuck in this same loop.

anyway they're definitely not getting out of the ever after this volume lmao

ever think about how mantle suppressing emotions, keeping them in check by abolishing the arts and repressing self-expression, is the first thing mentioned as leading towards the great war, and now there's a system in place that encourages keeping negative emotions in check to an unhealthy degree just to avoid attracting more grimm, which ends up feeding into this loop of bottling negative feelings, leaving them to simmer underneath a lid until it boils over and the resulting swarm of grimm would be so much worse than if those emotions and feelings had been addressed in a healthy manner when they first surfaced?

i think about this a lot. and then these kids have the added burden of stopping an immortal witch who has all the time on her side while they have no time to stop and mourn bc if they falter for even a moment everything will fall apart... right?

it won't, but they don't know that—ruby doesn't know that bc that was never an option for her. gotta be the leader and pick everyone else up, if she falters she'll let everyone down, twice now she's been knocked out cold and her friends have pleaded her to wake up bc they need her and and and

OOF.

i don't wanna make any predictions bc i'm Bad at them... but i'm still going to make one and say if they're getting out of the ever after it's going to be like. the very end of the finale.

#rwby #rwby9 #rwby spoilers #anon #ask.strqyr

[thtoneguyuknow]

The Power of Friendship Bad Bitches

Ruby couldn’t believe how fast it all went wrong. Teams RW_Y and JNOR and Uncle Qrow were fighting Salem’s minions at Haven Academy when all of a sudden, the White Fang showed up ad started attacking them. The White Fang teamed with Salem’s minions and quickly overwhelmed them and now it looks like that they might lose.

Slowly losing hope, Ruby then gets an idea. Remembering a certain scene from an anime she used to watch, Ruby called out to her friend Jaune. “Jaune!”

Upon hearing his name called, Jaune turned his head towards her.

“If we win this, I-I- I’LL SIT ON YOUR FACE!!!” Ruby yelled for the whole world to hear, embarrassed as all hell.

Everyone turned towards Ruby in surprise, everyone who knew her especially. Jaune took just a moment to process her word before-

BOOM!!!

With an explosion of aura, Jaune got to work.

Before Cinder could react, she got a devastating shield bash to the face. In an instant, Cinder Fall much like her last name, fell unconscious.

Once again, the room was in shock.

Taking this moment to attack, Jaune launches himself at Hazel, determined to take him down.

Returning to their senses, Jaune’s allies regain their composure and strike the rest of Salem’s minions and the White Fang while they’re distracted. Within minutes the fight was over, with the hunters coming out on top. They did it, they won.

Once they had rounded up all of the ne’er-do-wells, Ruby approached Jaune.

“So, Jaune,” Ruby began, “About that promise…”

“Oh! Uuuh, you don’t have to Ruby,” Jaune expressed, thinking to himself how embarrassed Ruby must be after shouting such a thing.

“But, I must keep my promise, Rose’s word.” Ruby spoke, affirming her desire to uphold her commitment.

“Did you just-“ Jaune was cut off by Ruby who whisked him away with her semblance to somewhere private in Haven.

The two of them weren’t seen until the next day, looking particularly satisfied.

#jaune arc #ruby rose #rwby lancaster #rwby #the power of bad bitches

[oddlyhale]

Nah, I have to just say a few things because OP is the worst.

Looks like OP wants to have this "my disabled person is better than your disabled person" take.

BRO, no disabled person is somehow 'top-tier' than another disabled person. They're BOTH going through their own trauma and journey. Yang isn't the perfect little one-armed warrior and James isn't this devil that doesn't believe in trauma when his PTSD was crystal clear in V7 when he talked to Oscar down in the Atlas Vault.

While we know how Yang was poorly handled with her own PTSD arc, we get nothing from what Ironwood did or does to deal with his own. And from what I could get out of his arc? He's so busy protecting everybody else that he's never dealt with his problems thoroughly. He hadn't seen her in a YEAR and some change and gave Yang an arm anyways.

OP is acting like he's hunting Yang down to get her back to fighting? THAT'S NOT IRONWOOD, OP. THAT IS YOUR FANTASY-HEADCANON-IMAGINATION-FANFIC.

He didn't force them to come to Atlas, it was an idea the team came up with after Haven. He didn't force them to steal an aircraft to get to Atlas, that was Jaune's bright idea. That wasn't Ironwood's plan to fight Cordovin, it was the TEAM's. HE WASN'T EXPECTING THE TEAMS AT ALL UNTIL THEY CAME KNOCKING ON HIS DOOR. He was so busy keeping Remnant on lockdown that he never once thought a thing about Team RWBY+JNOR. He saw Weiss at the manor after bullying Jacques but he never stopped and thought about her team. (Wow, the one person that saw Weiss as a person and not as a limb of a team or family name.)

The team baby-duckling their way into his life because they think, since they're heroes, they should be given permission to do whatever they want, and because they got a world-changing relic in their hands... and then LOST to Cinder.

He gave Team RWBY+JNOR food, shelter, and freedom to explore Atlas and Mantle, help with the elite Ace Ops on missions, gave them their Huntsman licenses, and upgraded their gear. HE ISN'T FORCING THEM TO DO ANYTHING. HE WANTS THEM TO GET BETTER.

Also, VERY convenient that the writers want to cover up the fact that Ironwood gave Yang that arm A YEAR LATER while she was recovering. Maybe because... he understands what it's like to lose a limb??? WHOA???

But okay, if OP wants to say Yang is the pillar of overcoming trauma, then WHY WAS SHE THE WORST SISTER IN V9 AND IGNORING RUBY'S DEPRESSION. YANG IS THE WORST IN V9 OUT OF THE TEAM. SHE IS SO HYPERFOCUSED ON BLAKE THAT RUBY IS EDGING CLOSER TO SUICIDE AND YANG COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO CHECK ON HER.

I fucking hate that the FNDM wants to forget that Yang was the worst person to try and deal with someone else's issues. SHE'S NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH PROBLEMS. RUBY HAD THEM. AND SHE COMMITTED SUICIDE AFTER BEING PUSHED BY NEO, AND YANG JUST STOOD THERE AND LET HER DRINK THE TEA.

#rwde #op is braindead

[nightmare-foundation]

God I'm seeing SO MUCH Ozpin hate lately and, frankly, it's completely unfounded.

He is NOT the cause of Ruby's breakdown nor jaunes. "Oh but he gave her that advice in v1!" So?? It's not like he knew it was bad advice! Ozpin saw a student in need of comfort and offered that comfort in the best way he knew how. Oz is NOT the kind of person to leave a student alone when they're despairing.

"But he let ruby join Beacon early!" Yeah, he did, for likely many reasons. Because she's a SEW, she's incredibly important, plus she was going to get dragged into his and salems war ANYWAYS due to her eyes and the fact she was going to be a huntress anyways. Plus, ruby is the child of summer, someone we can assume Oz was close to much like qrow. Letting her into Beacon early was the SAFEST option. Why wouldn't he want to protect her? And it's likely ruby would've gone off to fight Roman if she wasn't let in, and not only that, it's entirely possible he and cinder would've targeted her due to her eyes. Being in Beacon with a team was the SAFEST possible option.

"But he lied to her, the inner circle, and rwby and jnpr/jnor!" Yeah, he did. I do think he should've told the inner circle that Salem couldn't be killed, but a bunch of teenagers he hardly knows? He said himself that his actions are backed by EXPERIENCE. He's been betrayed God knows how many times over tens of thousands of years. Lionheart was not the first betrayal by any means, and Leo literally said the exact same thing RWBY did- "We won't turn our back on you." Why wouldn't he be wary of people he hardly knows, especially kids?

"But Oz dragged kids into his war!" They were going to get involved anyways! At least Ruby and Yang were! Plus ozpin admitted in VOLUME 2 that he hoped they never had to fight in his war! Oz gave them MULTIPLE outs, including pyrrha! Qrow said that they didn't HAVE time, but ozpin gave her time to think on it anyways and even needed her VERBAL consent to start the aura transfer! He didn't WANT to bring any of them into his war! Why would he want to force pyrrha into the same situation he's been in? And as for the Academies, ozpin built them so he could give people the tools and training to defend themselves and others! Protecting the Relics was just an upside to that! Plus he can't nor wants to force anyone to be Huntsmen! It's ENTIRELY up to the students!

"Oz caused Ruby's breakdown!" Believe it or not, he didn't. Sure he gave her bad advice, but he constantly gave ruby and her team an out. She CHOSE to keep fighting. Not that it's her own fault that she had a breakdown, cause it isn't, but like. It's certainly not Oz's fault! If anyone, blame cinder and Salem! They literally attacked Beacon, Haven and Atlas! Ozpin could NOT have known that would've happened, because that was the POINT. All he knew was that there might be an infiltrator, and that was AFTER he let ruby in. I'm sure that if he HAD known about the attack beforehand, he wouldn't have let ruby into Beacon.

Oz is NOT a bad person. He's a traumatized, immortal man who's scared to trust. He cares deeply for his students and friends. He manipulated NO ONE. A lot of that trauma is because of Salem. If you want to blame any character for Ruby's mental state, blame HER.

#ramsey (host) #rwby #ozpin #rwby volume 9 spoilers #salem rwby #ruby rose #and im not saying ozpin has no faults #hes absolutely flawed #its a big part of his character and its what makes him so interesting #hes not MEANT to be perfect