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#team cap vs team iron man
rosepetalsthings · 11 months
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I'd got jumpscared by your random MCU post in my homepage. I was just reading MCU fics lmao
Pffffft I'm so sorry 😭
If it makes you feel better it's cause I was browsing fics and then remembered why I do not do that anymore lmao
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us2019 · 1 year
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I can't believe I was on here like all day. I don't even remember what I blogged about like
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irondad-defensesquad · 2 months
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me a couple years ago: nah i don't like the t/eam cap vs. team iron man fights, i like them both
me now: i would fight old man steve and whitewashed wanda on the street any day
(btw if you like steve, that's cool! but i don't trust you if you genuinely like mcu wanda lmao)
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blackjackkent · 2 months
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The building the fisherman sent us to is a large warehouse sitting right on the edge of the water.
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Hm.
This oil-vs-blood thing is very strange. I'm still sticking with my theory that there's some fucked up Steel Watcher going around murdering people, but I don't think it's actually correct.
The warehouse is called Flymm Cargo, and its door is locked. Unlocking it reveals a bunch of dead goblins and some very, very angry worgs.
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Not pictured, a number of local refugees who panicked when the fight started, which is super reasonable, and ran straight INTO the building and disappeared, which is not.
Not a terribly difficult fight. The worgs were named Gristle, Snarrrl, Rrrripper, Snapp, and Cuddleface(!), and stayed mostly grouped up so Minsc's AOE throw with Nyrulna did a lot of work. Also tried having him throw Boo into the fray for the first time; I'm not positive it had any tactical benefit but it was quite satisfying to see Boo squeaking his way through the air and slamming into an enemy.
Minsc also shouted "Buttkicking for goodness!" which brought my heart a lot of joy.
The combination of Hector, Karlach, and Minsc really makes for a juggernaut team comp (with Jaheira often alongside as a panther bc I am being a disappointment to Zen's guidance and making her go murder kitty all the time even though it's not optimal). XD
The warehouse seems to be otherwise abandoned except for the aforementioned dead goblins, who I assume owned the worgs. Hector was able to perceive a trapdoor under some cargo containers which seems to be the only likely path forward.
This at first led to what seemed like a fairly nondescript basement until I realized that it is lined with what appear to be prison cells. O.o Not sure what Flymm Cargo is hauling but it seems maybe a smidge concerning.
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Thankfully there don't seem to be any people in any of the cells. (Or anything for that matter, except for one propaganda pamphlet about Gortash's new regime.) One small mystery solved, though - I now know where that "A Greasy, Smelly Climb Up..." area transition in the sewers would have led to:
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Lovely. Thankfully we don't have to go that way; there's one other main door out of this area.
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Hm. Machines that leak oil that looks like blood, perhaps?
Inside Machine Parts Storage we find:
Thieves' tools
Infernal iron (is there any point to carting this around anymore?)
Something called "G-Cube Lube"
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Gross. Please tell me that's not what all the grease down in the sewers was.
Further on... I think we might have hit the jackpot.
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...Is that a submarine? O.O
The area has one guard and is full of steaming pipes and cranking gears and seems very industrial compared to much of the city. There's a journal sitting on a desk in one corner:
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Hm. First of all - Clockwork Escape Kayak is my new rock band name. Second - I'm assuming the "Cap" is the submarine, and I'm guessing to that it has something to do with the attack on Holli. What else around here would have made the sort of big wake that the fisherman was describing?
The journal is labeled "Redhammer's Journal" and the man by the sub is named "Redhammer the Deviser" so I'm guessing he's the man in charge.
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"Oi, what's this? You ain't supposed to be down here, mate!"
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Narrator: You spot a curious metal contraption - a submersible.
Hector has a few more intimidating/conflict-oriented dialogues here, but to start with he's just going to sate his own curiosity until the man tries to throw him out physically. "That submersible - why is it here? What is this place?"
"The only port in this whole bleedin' city that matters," the dwarf answers, unhelpfully. "Now why are you here? Did Gortash send you?"
As usual, Hector has no interest in lying, nor would he be much good at it. "You killed one of those servants of Umberlee," he says matter-of-factly. "Now they want you dead."
The dwarf raises an eyebrow - wary, but not afraid. "Oh yeah? And are you here to make good on that?"
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Hector hesitates. Is he? Certainly he needs more information to know if he wants to kill this man in cold blood - his only true goals here are to impede Gortash's operation and to prevent any more innocent Umberlants from getting killed out in the water.
"I just want to know what happens in this port," he says firmly.
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"Nothing without Lord Gortash's go-ahead," Redhammer says impatiently. "I transport whoever he needs taken to the Iron Throne. It's an underwater prison - most secure in the Realms. Lord Gortash keeps some Gondians there. Collateral to keep those working in the Steel Watch Foundry under control."
Hector's eyes widen. Oh, shit...
His brain starts working rapidly, parsing together a number of different facts all at once.
The Iron Throne - he knows from his own historical reading - is a name that goes back more than a century. Originally it belonged to a so-called merchant organization which orchestrated the iron crisis in Nashkel, a plan which was co-opted by the Bhaalspawn Sarevok in his attempted takeover of Baldur's Gate. How long has there been a prison named for it? Is it an official one, or a new one constructed under Gortash's leadership? Was the name a dark joke on Gortash's part? Or perhaps on Orin's?
And the Gondians...
He feels a flash of brutal vindication. He was right, and Wulbren was wrong. The Gondians are being coerced - their compatriots, or perhaps loved ones, being held imprisoned to secure their loyalty. To destroy the foundry wholesale would have been to kill trapped innocents.
And though he came here with the vague thought of assisting the Umberlants in their revenge, that thought has been replaced by another, far more important plan. Those prisoners need to be set free.
Not just because it is the right thing to do (though it is), but by doing so, they would destroy Gortash's leverage over the Gondians, and destroy the Foundry's support system. Having done that - it follows, theoretically at least - the Steel Watch will crumble, or at least be significantly weakened.
Hector feels a pulse of excitement starting to thud under his jaw - though his control holds, and none of it shows in his face. "You're going to take me to the Iron Throne," he says coolly. ""m getting the prisoners out."
The dwarf examines his impassive expression for a moment in silence, then shrugs. "I'll take you in," he agrees. Whether he is afraid of Hector's threat or simply doesn't give a shit is unclear; Hector supposes he'd take either. "But look-- there's some bad shit going down in there. You don't want to get involved. Neither did I, but it was them or me."
Hector opens his mouth to ask for clarification, but Redhammer turns away, shrugging him off. "I'll get Cap warmed up. Get in when you're ready."
-----
They all eye the little submersible rather warily as it starts to hum with power in the water.
"We are to go beneath the waves?" Minsc asks, some of his usual jovial humor missing from the question. "It is not that Minsc is afraid, you understand, but Boo does so very much dislike being wet..."
Hector smiles slightly. "I can't say I blame him, Minsc. On the bright side... this man is clearly as self-interested as they come, and therefore would likely not trust his own hide to that machine if it were not safe."
"The only true constant in the world," Jaheira murmurs dryly.
"Cheer up, Minsc," Karlach says with a grin from Hector's other side. She has been visibly excited to get a chance to talk to their new ranger companion whenever the opportunity presents, and this is no different; he can see the way her eyes are glowing with energy. "You heard what the dwarf said. It's an evil prison, and that means evil guards. You know what that means!"
Minsc brightens up at once and Boo, on his shoulder, gives a loud squeak. "You are right, my fiery friend! That is ever so many evil butts we may kick with both boots!"
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bedlamsbard · 10 months
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Reread the Hydra Cap AU and I really enjoyed it once more; it fucks supremely. I know that you are not a huge Tony Stark fan, and that’s legit, and if he wasn’t a major player in that hypothetical fic, it would make sense, BUT. I do really enjoy what you’ve set up for him in the concept writing. What’s he got going for him without his Vast Fortune, yknow? Obviously, the trope of the genius inventor working his way up from nothing is problematic and a bit silly, but. Well-executed it’s fun, yknow
Thank you! I really do think about this one daily, though there are a couple of reasons it hasn't gone beyond concept writing. Chief among which is that it doesn't have a plot, just set-up, and part of that set-up involves running out all the events of Phase 1. (The sticking point has actually been Thor, since so many of the events of that movie are driven by factors that wouldn't be affected by the HYDRA-SHIELD changeup, but have pretty drastic consequences further down the line; if Loki and the Chitauri are still invading in this AU, it completely changes the dynamics and plot of the story. If they're not, then SHIELDRA's response back in Thor has to explain why not.) (And the way my brain works I can't just ignore it because it's more convenient.)
Tony was always intended to be a main character in the story (or maybe a secondary character -- Yonder level of involvement, anyway, not Horizon level), since part of the conceit was setting up the Avengers in secret. The AU's divergence point is back in IM1, during the Tony-Obadiah fight at the end of the film, with Tony and Pepper believed killed when the building collapsed. (Possibly Obadiah did not get fried by the arc reactor overloading? Specifics aren't important.) SHIELD -- which was still run by Fury at this point -- pulled Tony and Pepper out of the rubble, but Obadiah had already rushed a funeral and completed his takeover of the company. While Tony and Pepper were recovering, Obadiah sold the prototype of his version of the suits -- the Chessmen suits -- to Alexander Pierce (a.k.a. to Hydra), which tipped Fury off and started him digging, tipping Pierce off and resulting in an attempted assassination and a successful hostile takeover of SHIELD. Basically the SHIELD on SHIELD violence from CATWS but the bad guys won.
Tony was out of the fight the whole time, since he was still recovering from having a building dropped on him, but was at Fury's secret base when he and the SHIELD loyalists limped back after the end of that fight. (The named ones are Clint Barton, Maria Hill, and Phil Coulson, but it was a pretty significant number of survivors; other loyalists, including Natasha and Sharon Carter, remained undercover at SHIELD/HYDRA.) Since then Tony's been with realSHIELD (and has upgraded the Iron Man suit); at some point he was able to get in touch with Rhodey, who's still with the USAF and is still technically the liaison to Stark/Stane Industries, now doing the spy thing. Tony built him the War Machine suit but I don't think he's had a chance to wear it yet. I don't know exactly what he would be doing in this hypothetical story, but he would be in it, especially for a rematch with Iron Monger and the Chessmen suits. He's with realSHIELD, so he's not exactly working himself up from nothing in this scenario. It would still be a Steve and Natasha focused story, but he's there.
As for whether or not I'm a Tony fan -- I actually am; he is not my favorite character in the MCU, but he is a character I do really like. It is just not super obvious in my writing because most of my fic has set been set post-CACW and because I mostly write with a Steve and Natasha focus, Tony does not come out well from their POVs at this point in time. I know that the fandom is really polarized on the team Iron Man vs. team Cap issue; it is one of the few times when I have been stopped IRL by a stranger over Marvel. (It is the one time I've seen Marvel fen act like SW fen in terms of taking sides in a fight I wasn't aware I was having.) Within the CACW to Endgame timeline there's not really any way to write any of the characters involved without having it come off as taking sides and that ends up reflecting back as "the author does not like either Steve or Tony," which is not true; I write the characters like I see them in the films and during this timeline they are portrayed by the PTB as being EXTREMELY polarized towards each other. I'm not a hack; if I'm writing him at a different point in time, I'm not going to write him the same way I do during the IW timeline. If/when I go back to Reaches he'll be a viewpoint character there and that'll be Avengers!Tony.
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gale-in-space · 3 months
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I really need to catch myself from falling into bg3 fandom wank. Gale and Astarion discourse feels like a resurgence of Team Cap vs. Team Iron Man bullshittery and it's... not good for my brain. I need to go outside. I need to read books. I need to do something that isn't complaining about fictional men 24/7
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holistic-alcoholic · 2 years
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I'm thinking about civil war again. Let's ramble about it.
Disclaimer: I haven't seen this movie in 4 years and I refuse to do so because it will break my soul. But. But.
I think we're wrong to see only two teams in a conflict about the accords, Tony vs Steve. There are three: Tony, Steve, and The Government(/The System/The Man/Ross/whatever). And this triangle isn't equilateral.
The Accords were given to them from the outside source, with Ross being the harbinger, and they can't actually refuse them. There's no working world where people have this kind of power and no control from any of the governmental structures without being called criminals, but the governmental control usually Sucks Ass, so — logically — both sides of Steve/Tony argument make sense. I mean, read about the social contract and everything those old dead white men argued about — the problem of the human rights vs the governmental oversight is a real life world argument old enough for us all to be sick about it, and while mcu simplify it extremely (as they love to do), the basics still apply. Total anarchy doesn't work, an authoritarian government doesn't work, you need to find another solution to make it work.
And they could have, but here's when the personal stuff comes in.
Steve doesn't truly get the need for the Accords, and that is rooted in his own experience — he never truly felt The Guilt before this movie. Some guilt, yes, compassion, yes, but it was never tied up to his identity. He was always trying to do the right thing, he succeeded in all his personal battles, and while yes, there was collateral damage, there's still a knowledge in him that he did everything he could — because he did, because it mostly worked. He was formed and bred as a hero by the army, he accepts the fact that sometimes death is inevitable (Is this the first time you've lost a soldier?). And he has an objectively amazing ability to stay his ground and change the narrative around him until he gets what he wants just by the power of his will. Bucky is captured? He goes on his own and saves him. He leads the commandoes to the war and he goes to the front door and he doesn't care about the enemy: he just does it, straightforward. He's not used to failing, to compromise, because he never needed it, because before his will and righteousness were strong enough to bend reality and get him his win. 
So, two points: 1) Steve doesn't get the need to yield and compromise, and 2) Steve doesn't get the Guilt and the constant uncertainty about whether am I doing the right thing.
On the other hand, there's Tony and Natasha — the loudest voices of the pro-accords team — who Get It. Tony's whole motivation is this guilt, he sees iron man as an impossible penance. And obviously — I think I would just cut the wire — he knows about compromises and hard decisions. His MO is to find some tricky solution that will save everyone, and fix everything. And Nat's the same in this.
The tragedy is — their only way to get out of it is to be united, both Steve & Tony vs The System, because Tony sees the Accords' necessity and can work with them, but he needs Steve's uncompromising will to stand his ground, to argue every fucked up rights violation. But they lose — both of them lose before Zemo, even — because they can't fucking talk to each other.
But, I think, this is also the moment where healing can begin. Because the Accords argument? After cw Steve can finally understand it, because he's finally in a situation where he made the wrong choice and Fucked Up Real Bad (and, also, going by this logic, Bucky would be pro-accords, because of The Guilt and the need to have a failsafe for when he can't control himself, so with Bucky the whole dynamics of team cap in the accords argument change).
While, you know, Tony has his own guilty freak out about the secret prison and how can he fix the government fucking up everything with its power grab wishes.
Which would make for really cool character development for everyone. Just imagine the payoff. 
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Forget Team Iron Man vs Team Cap, are you Team Lucy or Team Drac?
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80svhstapes · 2 years
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Small HC I have for Billy
- Loves Green Grapes
- Likes Iron man over Captain America
- would have a stuffed animal because Max gave it to him and it’s really worn down but he loves it anyways
- messes with the radio when he gets nervous in the car
- Knows a lot of sea animal facts because of his mom
yes to all of these, I only disagree with him on the team cap vs team iron Man one
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There is a part of me that's always wondered what would've happened if Team Cap's full Avengers team made it to Siberia with him. I would've killed to get to see a confrontation between Wanda and Zemo, for instance. And I'd love to have seen how the fight would've played out with Steve having a full Avenger team on his side.
Yeah, it would have been interesting to see. Though I doubt the fight would have lasted very long if it were the avengers vs iron man lmao
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jemgirl86 · 1 year
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People on Tiktok are rehashing the Team Cap vs Team Iron Man argument (again lol), and I can’t even like any of the Team Cap videos because even though they’re on the right side they’re all doing it wrong… the Team Iron Man folks are so wrong they seem to be having a whole different argument altogether to be honest 😬, but still…
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Before Phase 4 one could easily get out of the whole Cap vs Iron Man discourse by saying that you were on Team Spiderman. Because everyone likes Spiderman so no one would argue with you. My one friend actually did this. I told my dad about it and he suggested as an alternative you could also say that you were on Team Loki. Again because everyone likes the character no one would argue with you.
This made me wonder though, why these two particular characters? They’re completely different. One is a web-slinging vigilante hero while the other is a magic-wielding villain with a redemption arc. What do they have in common?
The answer: they’re both polite. And I feel like there's a Terry Pratchett quote about 'do whatever you want but be polite about it'. The closest I could find was:
“…upper class etiquette in Ankh-Morpork held that, while you could snub your friends any time you felt like it, it was the height of bad form to be impolite to your worst enemy.” Terry Pratchett
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kelvintimeline · 2 years
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shame on me for still caring about a mcu thing in 2022 but i just remembered the sokovia accords... the massive thing that sparked team iron man vs team cap... and was like the closest a marvel movie ever got to provoking thoughtful conversations about superheros role in society vs government control and like... vigilantism as a concept
and now they literally just used it for a single movie and then never brought it up ever again outside of like one line of snark
like........ sis the lack of care towards world building...........
does anyone even know if they’re still in effect or
like i doubt it but surely... that should have come up more explicitly??
does them being completely fucking irrelevant prove that team cap was right... is this latent validation
like we already knew but... did we officially win
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night-gay · 1 year
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Into the Anthill pt 8 - Staying Useful To The Team
Things were changing fast for the Avengers and Hank was really starting to feel insecure about his place on the team. Goliath wasn’t the only strong one with Hercules around, Ant-Man wasn’t the only small one with Wasp around, and after Jan became a multi-millionaire Hank couldn’t even be a breadwinner. So, between going back and forth between alter-egos, Hank turned to his role as the team’s smart-guy to stand out.
Maybe he could build some sort of AI to help him? I bet that would totally work.
🐜🐜🐜
Avengers vol 1 #41-44
Hank had the Dragon Man android delivered to his lab to study up on robotics. Diablo promptly appeared to take it back, also snatching Hank & Jan as part of his plan to have Hank help him recreate his life elixir and control a new army of Dragon Men. Using a map they got from Mr. Fantastic, the Avengers headed to Diablo’s lair in Transylvania with Hercules tagging along. Cap showed up independently to help while Herc tossed the Dragon Man into some lava.
Jan’s attorney visited Avengers Mansion to tell her that since she turned 23 a few days ago she could finally claim the full sum of her inheritance from her late father, raising her net worth by about 3 million (26.7 million if you adjust for inflation). Meanwhile, Hawkeye and Hercules took off to rescue Black Widow and got captured by the Red Guardian so the rest of the Avengers headed out to save them. Black Widow was there to destroy some dangerous tech for Nick Fury so she helped out once she had completed her objective.
Avengers Annual #1
Mandarin assembled a new lineup of the Masters of Evil and every Avenger (minus Hulk and Rick Jones) split into teams to take them down. The matchups were as follows: 
Goliath, Wasp, & Iron Man vs Power Man & Swordsman
Scarlet Witch & Hercules vs Enchantress & Executioner
Hawkeye & Thor vs Living Laser & Ultimo
Captain America & Quicksilver vs Mandarin
Once everyone had finished up their business and gathered at Mandarin’s base he fired his “hate ray” to force every Avenger to attack whoever they were standing closest to. Since Jan was closest to Mandarin she knocked him out and the day was saved.
Avengers vol 1 #45-52
At a public ceremony to honor the Avengers in New York they announced Hercules had been granted membership. They had planned to do the same for Black Widow, but she decided to retire for the time being. When the Super Adaptoid attacked the ceremony Hank got it to shrink to fight him & Jan at ant size while the civilians got away. Once it returned to full size the team tricked it into using every copied power at once to short it out.
Now that Hank wasn’t the strongest Avenger anymore he decided to rededicate himself to being Ant-Man to stay useful to the team. Jan hired a chauffeur that turned out to be The Human Top (now calling himself Whirlwind and still out to kill Hank once and for all). He bested Hank and Jan in combat yet again, but Pietro stopped him and disarmed the bomb he’d left behind. Soon after, Hank left for a trip to Las Vegas with Jan and her chauffeur (who is still Whirlwind in disguise). 
Then Hercules left for Olympus, Cap quit to pursue a normal life, and Magneto abducted Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch to force them to rejoin his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Now only 3 Avengers strong, the team luckily got help from the new Black Knight and tracked down Magneto’s lair. After a staged incident at the UN where Wanda was shot, Pietro officially quit the team and took her with him. After failing to stop them, Hank discovered that he could no longer grow beyond his standard size due to strain on his body, forcing him to abandon his work as Goliath and just be Ant-Man.
With only Ant-Man, Wasp, and Hawkeye left on the team The Collector had no trouble capturing them. Thor, who he’d caught earlier and placed under his thrall, brought Iron Man for his Avengers collection as well. Jan escaped the pod and Hank returned to Goliath size again to defend her. At the end of the issue, as Thor and Iron Man were leaving again, Cap called and suggested adding his ally Black Panther to the team. The decision was unanimous and Black Panther promptly helped them stop Grim Reaper.
Minor/Cameo appearances from this period:
Tales of Suspense vol 1 #92
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acesstark · 1 year
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out of all the shitty captain america: civil war, who was right / who was wrong, team cap vs team iron man, winter soldier killing Tony’s parents crap that continues to resurface in this fandom, my least favorite discourse is whether or not Steve was wrong for kicking Tony’s ass in that scene towards the end.
I hate it so much because, no matter what side they take, no one seems to comprehend the fact that Tony was never actually going to kill Bucky. His suit has ever possible laser and bomb and rocket in it, and he had about four different clear shots to take that he didn’t.
He’d literally just taken down an entire concrete wall with complete ease, you think that couldn’t have killed someone??? He could’ve shot Bucky down on the ladder, because even if it didn’t hit him directly, the explosion itself would’ve done damage. He had Bucky in a headlock, could’ve killed him then. After Tony blew his arm off, both Bucky and Steve were on the ground and there was no fighting going on, he could’ve done it then.
Maybe I’m thinking about this too logically, but if Tony actually wanted to kill him, he would’ve done it.
Shitty movie discourse aside, I’ve never seen a single person acknowledge that before.
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bedlamsbard · 1 year
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every time I see something going down in SW I thank the gods I switched over to a more normal fandom like *checks notes* Marvel.  Not that MCU fandom doesn’t occasionally make me, a SW veteran of more than a decade, go “...perhaps that’s a bit much.”  (especially some of the stuff that goes down in the Loki subfandom.)
(And every day I am glad I wasn’t in the fandom in 2016 when CACW came out; I’ve gotten a very, very small amount of backlash that’s rooted in Team Cap vs. Team Iron Man stuff on Horizon, but that’s like. one comment.) (also one of the reasons I’ve got fic I’m hesitating on is because I’ve also seen enough in this fandom today that I worry about calling Steve/Peggy fans down on my head, which I’m pretty sure the time travel story would do.) (maybe MCU fans are better at reading ship tags than SW fans are but there’s only one way to find out and I’m probably going to do it.) (I don’t know why I put this all in parentheticals.)
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