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#that spn finale
Answer

I understand that people are wary, we’ve all been fucked over by too many shows in the past, but I don’t see the same thing happening on RNM. 

I won’t publish any more asks about this tbh, I’ve said what I think in reply to previous asks and it all boils down to this: I see no reason to panic or worry.

On a related note: can you guys please stop sending me SPN related asks? I had the show blacklisted for more than a decade for reasons, I really DON’T want to talk about it. At all. 😩Thanks.

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Answer

Yeah, I saw the Spanish tea. Also saw some “conspiracy theories” about the whole thing, and of course it all made me think of Malex.

I can see why SPN fans think it’s true, esp. since I remember a similar thing happening on Voltron: Legendary Defender. They said I LOVE YOU in English, and it was translated to “I love you” in the romantic sense (which is distinctly different from “I love you” in the sense of “I like you” or “I care about you” in many other languages) in pretty much every dubbed version of the anime, but they treated it like it was just a bro-ish ‘love ‘ya’ in the English version. In that regard I see where people are coming from, and they have good arguments (also 15 years of BS experience :P), I still can’t say whether it’s actually true tho.

Anyway, I think the situation with Malex is different. Malex have been CANON from episode 1x01. There’s never been any doubt IN CANON, that Alex and Michael love each other, have a decade long history, and regardless of the S2 attempts to derail this somehow, the narrative has fully supported the idea that theirs is a love story over the course of two seasons.

Of course there’s always the chance that some network assholes could try to interfere or make demands, but in RNM’s case, they had to make the writers disregard at least two, possibly more seasons of a canon love. I don’t see that happening tbh. 

If they don’t see and realize, that Malex is a HUGE reason why people watch the show, they haven’t paid attention. Apart from network execs making demands, I also think that show runners have to be open to the idea of gutting things, esp. long-standing showrunners who could throw in a good amount of “weight” to stand up against network demands. 

Not that we know much about him yet, and he sure doesn’t have the weight of a Kripke yet, but I can certainly see Known Romantic™ Chris Hollier putting up a damn good fight with the network to keep Malex and give them the happiness they deserve.

12 notes

Isn’t the way Jared put it though “He died for his number one”?


@plaiddoodles (idk how to make a post replying to a comment…) I do think it’s a little clumsily worded and ambiguous, but I think the quote is worth breaking down:

“This guy gave his life for years and years and years”–this is the part where he’s talking about Dean’s life. He dedicated his life to Sam’s safety (let’s ignore the “normal life” part–I don’t think it’s accurate that Dean was actively trying to give Sam a normal life, but Jared is speaking off the cuff and Dean does voice his desire for Sam to have a normal life many times anyway).

“and ultimately gave his life to have his No. 1 on the planet live as normal a life as possible”–I’m inclined to have a charitable interpretation of this, because what we see in the finale is not Dean dying so that Sam can move on to a “normal life.” I think it’s more an emphasis on Dean’s perspective, that he was happy Sam would get a normal life. I also think it’s a comment on Dean’s insistence that Sam not bring him back. It’s not that Dean was happily dying for Sam to live an applie pie life, it’s that he knew Sam had to let go, they had to break the cycle so that they wouldn’t cause more problems and pain with their deals, because Sam was strong enough carry on without Dean, even if he didn’t want to. Hope that makes sense.

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Personally I’m so glad that Dean didn’t directly die for Sam, or for anyone else for that matter–it would be too bitter a pill for Dean to have to sacrifice himself, for the show to say “see, he had to die.” But that’s not what it did! His death was unnecessary and tragic and that’s. a. GOOD. thing.

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and it’s not that Dean’s death is a success, it’s not that him dying was essential for Sam to live–it’s Dean’s life that was a success, because ultimately he kept Sam alive, did everything in his power to ensure that his brother got to carry on. If Dean had ever given up on Sam and just let him go, Sam would never have gotten to help raise Jack with compassion, Chuck would still be in charge, Heaven would still be divided and full of nothing but memories, and Sam would never have gotten to be a father or die old. Sam only got to do all of that because of Dean and his choices in life.

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i just realised that jackles went all arsene-wenger-after-arsenal on spn finale and my household (which consists of one die-hard arsenal fan and one i’m-interested-out-of-sentiment spn fan) is now proficient in gentlemen’s silent treatment. isn’t it wonderful how unexpected connections reveal themselves in times of drama

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So are we Reformed/Calvinist/etc Supernatural fans gonna talk about the fact that the show is a VERY literal depiction of Arminianism and the fact that the human soul wants free will?

Or the fact that the show’s final arc was to replace God with one of their own making, in humanity’s image?

…or that the fact we still enjoy this show and it’s narrative just supports Reformed theology because said theology TELLS us our depraved souls want those things because of the fall, tells us our very beings hate and fight against God, and that’s why we need to be saved in the first place?

Cause as a fan and also a Reformed Christian I’m over here having a…not exactly a crisis, like I know all of this, I’m just sitting here like well dang. 😳

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WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN THE SPN FANDOM? WHAT THE FUCK ARE HELLERS?

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YES THIS ANON. Like don’t get me wrong, there was a lot of Supernatural that I hung on to just because I loved the cast and crew, but Jared alone definitely didn’t make that show, and it almost feels like that they think Jared carries the weight of the SPN Family.

Jared did a lot for the SPN family, don’t get me wrong. I know a lot of people felt lifted to have Always Keep Fighting, and Jared definitely contributed to the show, but Jared alone did not make Supernatural as beloved as it is. And Jared alone won’t be able to carry Walker either. If they have to rely on the strength of an actor’s name rather than the strength of their story telling and the abilities of all of their cast and crew, Walker won’t make it. Supernatural worked because there was a fundamental understanding that it WOULDN’T have worked without EVERYONE.

It just feels like C*W’s final calling to how grossly they misunderstand their audience. The SPN family feels very conflicted and broken after SPN’s finale, and to now act as if we’re all coming together to a new show, just because of Jared and not because it actually appeals to our interests, is insulting to the fan base. Hell, it’s insulting to Jared himself. They’ve basically said, “Jared, we literally only hired you because we hope that the large fan base that has followed you for 15 years will follow you into this show, and not because we think you’re talented and able to play a leading role.”

I feel genuinely bad for folk who wanted to watch Walker too now. Because I’m afraid so much of the promotional will be tagged with SPN and filtered through a Sam Winchester lens when all they wanted was cowboys. It’s just… for all that everyone was trying to MOVE ON, and delete all your SPN videos, and not answer questions, you sure wanna keep the spn Fandom for your numbers.

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So I wrote this monster post about 15x20 yesterday being a vehicle for Walker promo and it was probably one of the longest posts I’ve ever made. Ever. We’re talking a straight up novel. If you looked at it at all, thank you. If you read through that massive thing, holy hell, I want to hug you and apologize at the same time. That was really me just working my thoughts out on the whole dumpster fire we got and that’s why it was so damn long. But the important part of it, for me, was not about Walker or even the goddamn network and what they chose to do in the face of COVID. It was what I realized rewatching Dean’s death scene. And holy hell did it blow my mind. 

It helped me sort of make a semi-peace with that finale (though we should not accept that bs at all nor excuse the network) and thought maybe it might help make some sort of sense of this horrible finale we’ve been handed. After the story we got for 15 years, we know the finale didn’t make sense for Dean or Sam in the slightest (regardless of recent comments). So I took that part and put it in its own post, to make it shorter (if you can call this shorter, sorry peeps, I tried) and more easily accessible for anyone who wants to look at it.

As always, I don’t know anyone involved with the production, no one has come out and officially confirmed anything about the finale (except Kripke and Jared’s thoughts), and this is just my take on it.

Below be spoilers for GoT & of course, SPN:

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15x20:

One part of Dean’s death scene that I’d like to focus on are these lines & this one factor:

  • “I’m fading pretty quick. There’s some things I need for you to hear so come here.” - he’s not fading, he has time for a monologue
  • “Oh man, I did not think this would be the day. But it is. It is and…that’s okay.
  • “I need you to… I need you to promise me. I need you to tell me that it’s okay. I need you to tell me that it’s okay. Look at me. Look at me. I need, I need… I need you to tell me that it’s okay. You tell me that it’s okay.” “Dean…it’s okay. You can go now.”
  • Dean’s theme (x) does not start until after Dean says “that’s okay” - it gets close plenty of times in the beginning of the scene but never actually starts until after that line

Remember Dabb joked “If you thought Game of Thrones was bad, just wait”? (x) We know that Misha and Jensen have watched GoT. The show itself has made quite a few GoT references. And what happened in the series finale of GoT? This scene (x)

image

Originally posted by amidstsaltandsmoke

If you watched GoT, remember how out of place this part felt? How the dialogue didn’t seem to match what the hell had happened? How Jon seemed to be defending Dany’s actions when his character would never have done so before that moment? How Tyrion says this line above?

They were breaking the fourth wall, enacting Tyrion as the writers’ mouthpiece and Jon as the audience’s mouthpiece. Because they knew fans of Dany (namely the GA) would be shocked at what Dany had done, and what was still to come. Bryan Cogman confirms what the aim of the show was, to make people think (x) & that the writers were going to challenge the audience for rooting Dany on before this, as confirmed by Kit Harington (x).

You know what other show is infamous for breaking the fourth wall at times?

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Originally posted by sleepypanda27

So now check out those lines again, look at how Dean’s theme starts up, look at the scene (x) and notice Dean looking away from Sam, behind the camera at 3:12. Singer is directing the episode, the editors left it in, and this aired. Now notice what he says as he does this: “Oh man, I did not think this would be the day. But it is.” - then what does he do? he goes back to talking to Sam, but looking down. “It is and…that’s okay.” Then we see Sam’s face again.

This is them breaking the fourth wall (why else is Dean looking in that direction during his death scene? How does that add emotionally to the scene or help tell the story? No other characters or events are back there & let’s remember, this scene has been blocked before shooting, actors also have their marks).

This is the writers saying to you: “We didn’t think it would end like this. But it’s happening and it is what it is, we have to do it.” Maybe they planned for Dean to die all along (I still don’t think they did but I don’t know that definitively, other than what the show’s story told us) but they didn’t plan for it to go like this.

Then Dean says this after we see Sam’s face: ““I need you to… I need you to promise me. I need you to tell me that it’s okay. I need you to tell me that it’s okay. Look at me. Look at me. I need, I need… I need you to tell me that it’s okay. You tell me that it’s okay.” - this is Dean talking to the writers

The writers back to Dean: “Dean…it’s okay. You can go now.”

Put yourself in Sam’s place for a second, imagine Dean is talking to you. You’re giving him permission to go. “It’s okay” -> “you’re going to be okay”; “You can go now” -> “you can rest now, soldier. You’ve done enough, Dean. Time to rest now.” (I hate to use the word soldier for obvious reasons but think about everything Dean has done, sacrificed for, the people he’s saved, etc)

This is why the forehead touch. This is why the hand shots. This is why Sam is that emotional (besides losing his brother). This is why Dean has that little smile before he covers Sam’s hand with his. This is why Dean’s theme doesn’t start until after what the writers say to the audience, the “that’s okay” part because after that was their goodbye to Dean.

“Goodbye, Sam”

Now think, if Dean was your character that you wrote for and you truly loved him (or even say if he was real and right there in front of you), how would you send him off if you and he could talk directly? What would be the truest thing you could do for him, to make him the happiest and at peace? If you couldn’t let him live or give him anything he wanted or deserved in the end?

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Baby is there, Baby makes him happy. He has the Harvelle roadhouse. He gets to see Bobby again. His parents are happy and live down the road. Jack rebuilt Heaven for him. “Cas helped” implying that Cas is out of The Empty. They chose to purposely play Kansas’ version of the theme here and have Dean say “I love this song” right after the lyric “There will be peace when you are done” (this may not have happened while they shot it, but they purposely edited it this way).

The hunter funeral shot isn’t just meant to be a transition to Heaven or even a transition to POV shot. It’s also indicating that something is shifting here. We know how long it takes them to burn bodies in the show (see Mary’s and Cas’ funerals for reference) - look at how it becomes an overhead shot and how quickly (and almost artfully, aesthetically? if that’s the right word) the flames engulf Dean’s body. Then we get a sort of white fade if you will.

Then: “Well, at least I made it to Heaven.”

And who did they choose to greet him in Heaven?

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Originally posted by soluscheese

Who was named after Robert Singer, as we know. And who directed the episode? That’s right, the same guy. And how long has Singer been with the show? Since the beginning. 

“Yep.” “What memory is this?” “It ain’t, you idjit.” “Yeah it is, ‘cause last I heard you were in Heaven’s lockup.” “I was. Now I’m not. That kid of yours, before he went wherever, he made some changes here. Busted my ass out. And then he, well…he set some things right. Tore down all the walls up here. Heaven just ain’t reliving your golden oldies anymore. It’s what it always should’ve been. Everyone happy. Everyone together.” “It ain’t just Heaven, Dean. It’s the Heaven you deserve.” - look at this dialogue, this is once again the writers/Singer talking to Dean directly

And who’s that in the shot in the background during the pie festival scene in the beginning of the episode?

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Singer himself (x). These scenes parallel. Dean is having his favorite dessert: pie. Instead of Bobby handing it to him, it’s Sam. They sit on a bench outside of a restaurant (it looks like?) They included Singer in this shot for a reason, behind Dean to his left. Then in Heaven we have Bobby handing Dean one of his favorite drinks: beer. They’re sitting in chairs outside of Harvelle’s roadhouse. You know what else parallels?:

  • “I just… I think about Cas, you know? Jack… If they could be here.” “Yeah. Yeah, I know, I think about ‘em, too. You know what, that pain’s not gonna go away. Right? But if we don’t keep living, then all that sacrifice is gonna be for nothing. So quit being a freaking Eeyore, alright? Get into this.” “Yeah, you’re right.” *Dean then gets Sam smushing pie into his face*
  • “So Jack did all that?” “Well, Cas helped.” *cue Dean’s little smile*

The pie in the face moment isn’t just meant to be comedic. Not with Singer still in the shot. Not right after they talk about Jack & Cas. On the surface, it is: “I’ve wanted to do that for a very long time” & then Dean takes the fork and gets some pie off of his face to eat it, Singer laughing in the background. But notice how Singer walks out of the shot right after and they show this on camera (they keep it in the shot!). Singer could have been an extra, he could have been some random guy saying some random line behind them or interacting with them in some way, maybe handing Dean the pie for instance, or someone who accidentally knocks into them for more comedic moments. But instead they kept him in the shot, watching the boys, but staying his distance.

And whose name is on the pie truck at the pie festival? Dabb’s. His name isn’t there just to be there before the end of the show like we’ve seen all along with other names.  

And note the dialogue in the beginning of the pie scene, when Dean & Sam arrive:

“Are you sure you’re ready for this?” “Oh, I don’t have a choice. This is my destiny.” And what does the camera pan to? The pie festival with Dabb’s truck in the background.

Dean has two different reactions to the mention of Cas & Jack, and why? Because Heaven was the Heaven that Dean deserved. Where everyone was together and happy. Singer was in the Heaven shot, too, but as Bobby Singer. Heaven is where they were able to speak candidly with Dean after his death. Where they could let Dean be Dean. Where Dean could get the ending he deserved (with network constraints) which was everyone together and happy with Cas and Jack somewhere out there in the same Heaven, his mom and dad down the road, and his Baby there to drive anytime he wants, complete with beer.

“It’s a new big world out there. You’ll see.” “Oh wow. This tastes like the first drink I ever shared with my dad.” “Quality stuff?” “No, it’s crap.” *they both chuckle*  - and who was mentioned in conversation during Dean’s death monologue? that’s interesting dialogue, isn’t it?

“But it was fantastic.” “Just like this.” - ‘the ride (show) was a great one, though’ - ‘now this is your next chapter, it’ll be just as great’

“It’s almost perfect.” “He’ll be along.” - who is the one member of Dean’s family, including Cas & Jack, who the writers haven’t been able to give Dean in his perfect Heaven yet? Sam

“So I guess the question is, what are you gonna do now, Dean?” “I think I’ll go for a drive” “Have fun.” - notice Bobby’s fond smile as he watches Dean approach Baby with a big grin - and once again, Bobby is in the background, watching

Then what comes after Dean starts driving & Kansas’ song is done playing?

Neoni’s cover of “Carry On My Wayward Son” starts playing after Dean tells Sam: “You can go now” (3:28) - and what does Sam do? He smiles and looks down at Original Dean’s watch that he’s wearing & again we get the hands shot - this scene was meant to parallel Dean’s death scene - Dean being present in the form of his nephew who shares the same name, who tells him he can go now & watches Sam die, the cover song being Sam’s version of that song so to speak, and notice the zoom out shot as Sam dies - what do we see? The infamous mantle with the infamous Winchester-only photographs that then fades over to Dean arriving on the bridge in Heaven. The Winchester-only (aka CW) SPN story is closing, with the last member gone. Sam is being released from the narrative to go to Dean’s heaven and we know he’s Dean’s Sam again because of the callback costume to season 1 on the bridge when he arrives.

The Sam that mourned Dean during that whole montage of his life was only partly Sam the character we’ve come to know and love for 15 years. It was also the CW’s Sam. Not just the Sam the writers loved. Once he moves into Dean’s Heaven, he belongs solely to the writers again, so to speak.

“Hey, Sammy.” “Dean.” And then the hug, the looking over the bridge, the zoom out (showing the big world Bobby talked about that the boys are literally facing), and the credits. And what plays in the background? Dean’s theme, by guitar. And what credits do they show before the crew shot? Andrew Dabb & Robert Singer

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Originally posted by crispychrissy

This is why the cover version is played right after Kansas’ version. This is why Dean 2.0 looks like someone who could be on Legacies or one of those shows. This is why the Winchester-only mantle. This is why Blurry Wife. This is why “very, very purposely ambiguously” from JP. This is why “you’ll love the ending, mine would have been so much darker!” This is why “it’s a true ending.” This is why “If you thought Game of Thrones was bad, just wait.” This is why “Supernatural will never get the credit it deserves. Most people who are looking at it from the outside are going to focus on why it ran fifteen seasons, and ignore why it lasted so long.” This is why Jared is happy with his ending and why Misha is satisfied with his. This is why the vampmimes, the rando Jenny callback, the milk run hunt death, that Cas & Jack weren’t in it more than a couple of mentions, why Dean never talked about what Cas confessed or responded to it in any way, shape or form. It was all about Walker and the COVID effect.

Had Jensen been cast as Walker instead, you almost have to wonder if it would have been Sam impaled on the rusty nail, a shirtless shot for Jensen, and a Dean-centric ending while Sam waited for him up in Heaven. Everything else would have remained the same, though. The network would still use it. They would still get their death ending.

15x20 was not a bibro episode (or Wincest endgame or a pure brothers ending circa season 1-5). 15x20 was a vehicle, almost a backdoor pilot if you will (though not technically a pilot) for the new show. There’s a reason why they kept explaining that 15x19 would wrap up the lore/the season and 15x20 would wrap up the boys’ journey/emotional arcs, why it would be a 2-parter and it would feel different. Why it didn’t sit right with Jensen. Why Jared sounds like he’s parroting what CW execs would be saying about the finale & Sam and Dean. Why Dabb hasn’t said a word since the finale aired. This is why “It was very much take it or leave it”. This is how COVID affected this show (I’m not saying it’s only this, they did start the Chuck/network arc earlier than COVID after all). And you know what Dabb & Co’s response was?

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Originally posted by magnificent-winged-beast

They purposely did shots like this. But even more so their response was this:

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Originally posted by soluscheese

Jack becoming God. That is why Alex mirrors some of Rob’s movements from Rob’s performance as Chuck, not just to indicate he is now God the character. Not only could Jack (aka the writers) break Cas out of the Empty, he completely remade Heaven so Dean and Sam could be safe in the end, given the ending they deserved, where everyone was together and happy. How it always should have been.

15x19 was the best finale they could give us and they tried their hardest. You know why?

  • Jack becomes God who doesn’t insert himself in the story anymore - his “I’ll be in everything” monologue: “What do we call you?” “Who cares what we call him? Look, all that matters is he got us back on line” “Dean, I”m not coming back home. In a way I’m already there” - “What if we wanna see you? Have a beer or whatever?” “I’m around” (when I first heard this line I thought it was an odd line for Sam to say but now it makes total sense) - “I’ll be in every drop of falling rain, every speck of dust that the wind blows (remember Dean talking about being a candle in the wind? & what is another infamous Kansas song? “Dust In the Wind”) “and in the sand, and in the rocks, and in the sea” “This is a hell of a time to bail. You have a lot of people counting on you. They’re gonna have a lot of questions that need answers“And those answers will be in each of them. Maybe not today, but someday” “They just need to know that I’m a part of them and to trust in that” “I won’t be hands on. Chuck put himself in the story. That was his mistake.” (notice after this line Jack talks about how he’s learned from everyone and when he mentions Cas’ name, they show a shot of the brothers - that is who is missing from this family moment & the show is acknowledging that as they have been all episode, they know how loud Cas’ absence is & how it affects the narrative) - notice when Jack talks about people being their best, that they can be, that Jack looks to Dean and the camera focuses on Dean’s reaction - then “Well, I’m really as close as this” *puts hand over heart* - then Jack disappears, we see Sam’s & Dean’s reactions & then the next shot is beers in the boys’ hands (x)
  • Lucifer is broken out of the Empty by Chuck to indicate that the Empty could be broken into
  • We find out what happened to Adam which closes up his story (unfortunately, the poor guy never had a chance like Dean says)
  • We get a new Death for a few minutes named Billie Betty and Death is killed with no new Death - hmm…
  • Chuck gets his ending - through Lucifer and Michael themselves
  • All humans were restored in the end (& had COVID not happened, we would have seen familiar faces return as well)
  • Dean never got to respond to Cas’ confession one way or the other but we see him tell Chuck to bring him back and get the whole Lucifer scene - just think they could have had Lucifer get in another way or call Sam since he lost Eileen but no they chose Dean for this, to show Dean running up the stairs - because while they couldn’t have Dean respond, they could show this, and Eileen? now seeing all of this, I realize it was never going to happen because the CW didn’t want any romance in the end for Sam (and that’s why Blurry Wife btw) - this is also why Sam & Dean don’t ask Jack to bring anyone back or to eradicate the monsters
  • Dean reaches the end of his emotional arc as far as he himself goes by the end of the episode with “That’s not who I am”
  • Dean and Sam get a goodbye with Jack
  • The initials on the table with Cas’ & Jack’s name added which is very much fanservice but also correct for the found family narrative
  • The brothers shot on the table in the end where Sam looks sad and Dean claps him on the shoulder before they stand up and leave to show the table shot (interesting arrangement/order of that scene)
  • Dean and Sam driving down the road in the Impala (open ending that doesn’t end in death)
  • the song being played “Running On Empty” - everyone thought that meant Cas or The Empty somehow but look at the lyrics (x)

15x19 was their finale and they weren’t able to give us more than that (except for releasing Dean & Sam from the narrative & having them back in the same place as their family and loved ones in the end, all together and happy, what they deserved)

You know what cements all of this?

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Where Jared & Jensen are looking right into the camera and thanking us (the audience) & the zoom out to show the crew on the bridge. They purposely broke the fourth wall to show you this (even though it happened after the fade out/credits from the shot of Sam hugging Dean). This also explains why they kept Jared and Jensen in costume, and why they literally shoot from the same stretch of bridge they just ended the scene on, why the zoom out shot is similar but this time it’s facing the cast and crew. The show (the world) is now behind them but they want you to know how much they appreciated your love & support this whole time.

“We felt you guys here with us all the time.”

And who is on Jensen’s left? Singer

And who is on Jared’s right? Jim

Though this isn’t a shot for the show per se and it’s not a blocked scene, it’s not telling the SPN story anymore or any story really, they purposely chose to craft this shot this way, to have Jensen and Jared walk out of frame to lead to this shot, and zoom out this way

And then what do we hear? “And cut” and it cuts to black - why was this line added? why does the ending shot for the crew mirror Sam & Dean’s ending shot? because this is breaking the 4th wall for the episode & they’re showing you that

This was never about pleasing the 30%, not for the writers and the show. This was never about pleasing original fans of the show (from earlier seasons) or a certain section of the fans. It was always about the network & viewership, their constraints, about gaining ratings & making sure their new show that Jared was cast in did well, that a smooth transition happened.

This is why Dean’s character and story development went out the window. Why Sam’s did. Why no Cas, no Jack, no Eileen. Why Cas and Jack are barely mentioned and why Eileen is never mentioned again. Saileen and Destiel were too heavily paralleled all of season 15. Think, if one had happened as endgame (say Sam signing back to Blurry Wife or Dean hears “Hello, Dean” in Heaven since Shoshannah and Misha couldn’t be on set), even the GA (that goddamn 30%) would have went: wait, huh? But the network couldn’t erase Cas from the narrative like Eileen. Misha had been a regular, Cas’ role was essential to the show by the end of it, to the boys’ arcs, he was too important to the story. Plus they saw what happened when the show tried to kill Cas off in season 7. This is why the market research in 2016 for Dean and Castiel happened. This is why Jim Beaver intimated that we should have been happy with what we were able to get. He wasn’t being an ass or unsympathetic, he was just being blunt and stating facts. This is why we got the character montage at the end of 15x19 and no big series recap with “Carry On My Wayward Son” at the beginning of 15x20 which was essential to every season premiere episode, every season finale episode, and mid season-premiere episode of this show. The show wasn’t theirs anymore by that point, not really. This is why the cast & crew aren’t supposed to talk about what the original planned ending was. This is why:

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Originally posted by amethysthollis

Holy hell, it has taken me almost two months to try to make some sense of this whole goddman shitshow and why they ended Dean’s story like that as well as Cas’, Jack’s, Eileen’s, and Sam’s. We knew there was network interference (and this post doesn’t take away from the fact that the network has been interfering long before 15x19, long before COVID even) but this is…wow. It all makes so much more sense, at least to me. Who knew that it would take me going back to GoT, rewatching SPN episodes so many damn times, trying to see exactly what they were showing through framing, music cues, the performances, the narrative itself about Dean and Cas as well as Sam and Eileen and the found family narrative and Dean wanting a different ending and the whole leader!Sam thing and why it was all dropped…to finally get to this point. Wow.

Dabb, I am so sorry. I sincerely apologize. I have been so incredibly angry with you and Singer but now, I get it, especially after seeing what happened with Wayward Sisters and how the network operates with other shows. I felt so much pain watching Dean’s death happen, with that dialogue, but I can’t imagine how painful it also must have been for those who wrote the character, who loved him that much and knew him the way you guys did, the way Jensen did (omg how heartbreaking that must have been for that man), to have to do it that way. Especially, “Dean…it’s okay. You can go now.” I am so, so sorry. I feel like I should have seen this from the beginning but I didn’t. Ngl, I couldn’t watch that scene before this past week and I still can’t watch it, but now for a completely different reason. I have a pit in the bottom of my stomach just thinking about it.

Like Chuck said: “A headstone with the name: Winchester” - they were set on a death happening. Because what could have happened (and did sometimes though it didn’t take) during Kripke’s era? One of the boys dying. It makes me sick honestly. The CW execs saw GoT, too, but they took something else entirely different from it. And the writers/show had to give it to them but thankfully, they were able to give Dean the heaven he deserved.

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Had a ‘I miss Cas’ moment then realised the last time I saw him was when they buried him

I wanna throw things again

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ok, food for thought. hear me out: how would everyone have reacted to the finale if everything was exactly the same BUT sam was the one to die first? sam was the one who got rebared, who told dean he can do it alone, who had a hunters funeral, who met bobby in heaven.

dean would be the one to to sit with miracle in sams room, to get the phone call, to leave the bunker. then the montage would have been sam catching up with everyone in heaven, and then dean on earth raising a child named sam (with cas). when bobby mentions that jack and cas rebuilt heaven sam would be like ‘cas is alive? where is he?’ and bobby would give him the look™ like ‘take a wild guess’. then sam is the one on the bridge when dean shows up.

ANYWAY, that’s it. carry on with your lives.

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I as much as the next person believe spn was horrifically bad tv, but irl and on here I have very nice, intelligent friends who are destiel fans why would you be so mean to all them like that 😭

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Brief moment of absolutely CURSED clarity but uh…I think they GALAXY BRAINED the fucking finale. Like they wanted it to be tragic and they INTENTIONALLY madE it AS TRAGIC AS POSSIBLE. Now yes OF COURSE I wanted a soft ending that the CHARACTERS FUCKING DESERVE. But we’ve all had the attitude of like it being lazy and narratively weak and how it’s exactly chuck’s ending like WAIT THAT’S THE POINT. The message is that you can never fucking escape your destiny or god or get free will and holy shit that’s DARK but like that’s the POINT. OR EVEN BETTER it’s saying that god is a bastard and we can never escape him or idk there’s SOMETHING THERE THOUGH THE FINALE WAS ON PURPOSE. LIKE I THINK THE FINALE IS PLAYING 8D CHESS now that doesnt mean I forgive them but I might have… a shred of respect… because I do love me A FUCKING TRAGEDY

but of course nothing is ever intentional on s*pernatural so nvm 

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I think Sam needed to quit hunting, leave the bunker and stay away from supernatural world completely, since he promised Dean not to bring him back. It’s too difficult to keep the promise when he was surrounded by magic books. What if he finds something like Baozhu?

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jensen: how can i talk about the finale and how i don’t think it makes sense hmm. i know i’ll keep saying dean wouldnt ever die from vampires fully well knowing that’s exactly how dean dies i am very smart

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