#the discourse about this is something else

[thekatebridgerton]

More Penelope discourse

On the topic of female rage. Here’s something you may not want to hear: Penelope can be vicious. And I personally love her for it.

What I love about show Penelope is that she is a good person, she had a wonderful friendship with Eloise in s1 and trough most of s2, she cares about her family even when they are so dismissive of her, she likes dogs, she is is sweet and intuitive and funny and so terribly cute.

But she’s vicious. 

And I’m sorry if that intimidates the crowd who likes their female characters to fit into the Mother, Witch, Harlot stereotype. But the truth is that women can be quite vicious creatures when we want to be, no matter how nice, no matter how good hearted, we are. If you push the wrong button we are willing to ruin lives, without remorse and without apology. 

I find it really funny how so many people are intimidated by that aspect of show Penelope under the guise of ‘oh she’s not a good person’.  Oh please what intimidates that crowd is that show Penelope IS a good person, that she does have good intentions. That she still has the capacity to be the villain of someone else’s story when she’s 100% the protagonist of her own.

Daphne sort of glossed over the concept of how women are expected to fit themselves into a box to survive in this world where they are punished for everything, but Penelope is a better example of what happens when a woman in Daphne’s situation of ‘sit still, be smart, and never get angry’ situation, has power.

Power to hurt back, if someone hurts her. And I personally think this makes Penelope’s character more interesting. The concept that good women can be monsters and still be the absolute most wonderful people you will ever meet, that’s just something you don’t see in media a lot. It may feel contradicting, but it is appealing to me. 

It’s usually more understandable if the character starts out as a bad guy and then does does something unexpectedly good. But the whole “ how can a person be so good and yet....do something bad?”. Well that, that is what I call good writing. 

That’s an aspect of Penelope I look forward to seeing in S3. I want to see Penelope show that just as she is good, she can be vicious and unapologetic if you cross her.

 And that’s the tea.

#Penelope Featherington #bridgerton season 3 #penelope featherington meta

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Lol.

Yeah… the more news that comes out just confirms more of what I thought. This unnamed character who moves from HYBE to ADOR, and mere weeks later, HYBE gets a ‘tip-off’ and all the incriminating documents are in his work diaries where he narrates things MHJ has supposedly said, including that she believes that Bang establishing BTS or groups with the same cache as BTS, was him copying her…. Everything that’s found in his documents is almost clinically incendiary lmao. Like, weapons-grade rage bait. Partly because of how bizarre it is. And the sinker - they tie it to Min Heejin supposedly wanting more money. MHJ has meanwhile released another, stronger statement refuting the allegations about trying to stage a management takeover, or artists contract leaks etc.

Of course, the discourse about this is going to develop predictably, especially after the mention of BTS and other groups MHJ supposedly says copied her.

This has all the makings of one thing and only one thing, to me. It doesn’t change my opinion about Bang PD but it does make me revise my view on Min Heejin, she’s a bit more naive than I assumed her to be. I feel a bit sorry for her, because she’s been got. Again. It’s similar to the ig situation that also started with ‘a gift’ her ‘friend from SM’ gave her to congratulate her on launching ADOR - a gift that ended up being the most damning controversy that almost sunk the group. A controversy where the primary demand was for her to leave NewJeans and HYBE. Now, a ‘right-hand man’ transfers from HQ to her team and it’s his uncorroborated narrations that match what’s in the ‘tip-off’… the demands are the same.

I like MHJ, but I’ve always watched her with caution because in Korea, no woman makes it to the c-suite without making a shit tonne of enemies. Imagine it to be triple the amount a regular working class man makes on his way up the ladder, because that kind of status in Korea is something you’re either born into, or born close to. It’s rare for working class men to work their way up and even more rare for women. In fact, I’d say it’s an aberration.

I see all the flack MHJ gets for being a narcissistic bitch, wanting to constantly assert ownership of her ideas, wanting to be widely associated with her successful projects, etc. I see people irritated by her arrogance, but full disclosure, I like her for it. For several reasons, but one reason is that in her environment, the default is to let your male superiors take credit for your work. It happens in corporate environments all over the world, but in Korea it’s a mentality entrenched in the DNA. Pushing against that earns you enemies every time you speak, by default. But I suspect that’s how she worked her way up from being a graphic designer to having a seat on the board of directors at SM Entertainment before leaving when they wouldn’t give her more autonomy. So, in my eyes, she’s got spunk. But also, now I see she’s clumsy.

Oftentimes with corporate drama, there’s no point using moral language because it’s just business. You either pitched the best deal or you didn’t. You either fucked up or you didn’t. It’s cold numbers and rationality - business. But… there are some cases where it’s not really about the business, cases where it’s personal.

I don’t have meaningful insider information, I’m reading the press releases and ‘leaks’ along with everyone else, so I can’t be certain and that’s why I’m talking in this long-winded ramble without coming right out to say exactly what I think. What I’ll say though is that this is less about NewJeans and more about Min Heejin. And she’s the first person who should’ve understood that and taken necessary precautions.

Clearly, it doesn’t look like she has, and in that sense she has no one but herself to blame. She’s being stupid, in fact I’d say delusional in some ways, but I guess some things can’t be helped. NewJeans isn’t exactly fucked, but it’s clear that yet again, they are collateral damage. And it’s a shame.

#ador #min heejin #bang pd #NewJeans #Hybe #kpop

[not-goldy]

https://www.tumblr.com/not-goldy/748386443834048512/httpswwwtumblrcomnot-goldy748360102451511296

Tell me you’ve never interacted with the opposite sex (especially teenage boys) without telling me, lolz. I hope some of y’all are just super young and inexperienced tbh. If not, you’re in for a rude awakening when you’ll finally mesh with groups of males. I thought it was fairly obvious for everyone that males interactions with each other, no matter their sexual orientation (all my males friends are gay guys/yes, i'm that cliché, so what?) vs female interactions are vastly different. I'd even say worlds apart. Guys tease each other to no end with stupid comments all the damn time. (don't even start me with the "my cousin's brother's best friend ain't like that you're generalizing it's not true yada yada" of course I'm overgeneralizing duh still it's true for most men!)

Seriously, if a few comments made my a young guy - who could have been fighting with his sexual orientation at the time and overcompensating to hide it - is all it takes for you to dismiss the potentially of Jikook being a thing, you're totally clueless about the opposite sex that's all.

spoiler alert: guys don't suck each other's ears, don't play footsie under the table, don't look at each other's lips and so on without a reason, aka a sexual reason (or/and love). welcome to the real world anon.

Well if they're young they should go read a book or do homework or sommin. They have no business engaging in Character analysis of grown men who were their age at least a decade ago.

It's so annoying having any form of "intellectual" discourse with people who can't reason beyond their feelings.

They keep regurgitating the same old narratives with nothing to back it up. The whole "Jungkook is an ass" debacle was left in 2015. Talk about something else cos it's been debunked over and over.

There's literally nothing new with them.

And you can tell which of them just joined the Fandom cos they are the loudest buzzing in our ears with tired old shit as if it just happened.

They are not going, oh look we knew it Jungkook just did this nooooo it's how dare you say he's nice when he was 15 years and a minor and teased Jimin. They have nothing on Jungkook they've lacthed on to his childhood because without it they can't justify their hatred for him. And they have the nerves to talk about wanting love and gratitude from Jimin.

I for one don't take them seriously. LIKE AT ALL

[fefairys]

getting real fed up with my peers treating teenagers like shit. how did you forget so fucking quickly what it's like to be them. shame on you.

#this is about people my age getting into internet discourse with teenagers #and calling them stupid and overall belittling them and being a jerk to them #like. literally just block them if they are being a shithead #teenagers are shitheads sometimes #youre not going to change them #they need to grow up on their own #and an adult making fun of them isnt going to help #in fact it is going to hinder the process #if you want to try to help you need to be kind #if theyre not receptive to that and are still being an asshole then it is not worth it #and you need to go do something else with your time #you are a fucking adult

[chthonic-cassandra]

I know it gets tedious to talk over and over about all the lesbian things in Xena that no other piece of media does, but I rewatched "The Crusader" the other night and cannot stop thinking about the potency of the Xena-Gabrielle-Najara triangle, about how it gets to be vicious and ugly and complicated and sexy, about how much lights up in my mind when I think about it. No matter how many times I watch it, the show makes me feel like I didn't realize how much I was missing.

#there's a shallow box-checking version of representation discourse and this is not that it's something else #I was giddily going on to my partner about how season 4 is the sexiest season which I am aware is a crazy thing to say #xena

[piosplayhouse]

love it when people are so slippery slope pilled that under every discourse about censorship someone will inevitably go "ok but what if someone made birth of a nation 2 and reestablished the kkk" when it could not be more obvious that the original poster's statement was just like. About a teenager's underage bakudeku fic or something

#i guess its normal to immediately jump to the extremes but i cant be the only one finding something bizarre about how many people will be #like ' ok but what if i made [cocktail of the worst things imaginable to ever conceive]. right thats why thought crime needs to exist #' like no offense but do you guys hear yourselves.. YOURE the ones coming up with those things no one else said that before you #if you think people should be punished because they thought of something horrible that YOU were thinking about i think by your metric #perhaps you may need to get some help #but to be real like. everythings in nuance but i think the scariest thing these days is how many people think ao3 actually has mainstream #relevance to culture. if one person writes a wincest fic its not going to be projected to 12 million children immediately please be for real #the influence will be very small and extremely combatible realistically #whatevr #fandom discourse #fandom wank

[coockie8]

I don't know which miserable, anti-AO3 dickhead needs to hear this, but nobody is obligated to donate to you, especially when you're being an entitled cunt about it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#ao3 discourse #every time ao3 does a donation drive we get like hundreds of posts about how #people who donate to ao3 should donate that money to people essentially panhandling online #not realising that 1: people can donate to more than one thing if they want #there's not like a donation quota that says each person can only donate to one thing per month or whatever #and 2: we actually know exactly where the money is going when we give it to ao3 #that random internet panhandler could be a fucking scam for all I know and I don't really have a way of figuring out whether or not it is #this happens a *lot* more than I think people realise #so when my funds are low #but I still wanna donate #yeah I'm gonna donate to something that I 100% know where the money is going #and not some random person online who could be scamming me out of my money for all I know #you do not get to tell me how to spend my money #and being an entitled little shit about it is not going to get people to donate to you or anyone else who might need it

[sp4mja]

Im just gonna say it but Team Green is not playing because of miscommunication, they stopped playing because its not fun.

"Ignore the haters" no one should have to endure 3 days of hate just because they killed someone in a block game.

This is not about how they could communicate better in game, this is about how the event is not fun for everyone and instead of helping them people just attack them on social media and frame it as constructive criticism.

#qsmp #qsmp discourse #qsmp neg #tagging for those who have the tags blocked #it makes me sad the amount of hate fit got for miscommucating with etoiles ONCE #and etoiles? get away from him. poor man cant do shit to anyone or its power abuse or not fair #team green is the one with the least advantage. only 4 members log in and ay different times #could they communicate better? YES #BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT THAT #i hope they dip and play something else. if its not fun for them its not fun for me #fran.txt

[anglerflsh]

neurodivergency moment on my part

#[.art] #self #saw one too many posts about 'tv autism versus irl autism' and You can acknowledge different ways it manifests without demeaning one of the #it's perfectly understandable to be upset at only seeing one stereotype in media. But in asking for more perhaps/ #/don't act like no-one ever can act like that representation- especially for things such as these? #idk I'm tired of people saying ''Autstic People Can Have High Empathy! We're not all heartless bastards!'' like. girl #okay good for you? Others still struggle with the concept of empathy or sympathy #or like- the narrative that 'masking' is only a suppression of emotion (as in containing excitement for example) / #/when it can also be the other way around? #''masking'' can also entail pretending to be excited or sad or whatever emotion is appropriate #i don't know i don't know #I'm :/ at whatever I'm seeing of nd talking topos lately because I keep stumbling on the same few things over and over #and :/// #Maybe I'm the one not being nuanced maybe I'm not getting it this isn't meant to be a discourse post. I would have worded it better otherwi #this is very much me complaining about something that mildly annoys me. And nothing else. It's not a statement.

[lord-squiggletits]

Tbh I think no amount of discourse, rarepairs, unpopular takes, etc in fandom compares in terms of pain/annoyance level of liking something that everyone else actively hates.

Like, you can ignore discourse, curate your dashboard/social spaces, and block the shit out of people who like to argue and harass people. And also, you shouldn't be spending your fandom time engaging with people who annoy you anyways. Fandom is about fun, and if you engage with discourse you're ruining your own time by choice. Discourse and shit is only annoying if you engage in it or don't block it.

Shipping rarepairs or liking an obscure media kind of sucks because you have less content, but I'd say it's also a fun experience in its own way because when you DO find other people with the same interest, you tend to bond more closely and have more meaningful discussions since conversation about your shared interest is so rare.

But when you like something that everyone else hates? It fucking sucks because not only is there hardly anyone to talk to about what you like (as with rarepairs and obscure faves), wandering fandom spaces is like playing Minesweeper the way you could be minding your own business and then suddenly get slapped in the face with someone randomly going "and btw [character/show/ship/etc] fucking sucks and is stupid and cringe." People literally have a tendency to be talking about something they actually enjoy and then randomly add "unlike [hated thing] which sucks so bad."

I've literally had to withdraw from interacting with fandoms entirely because the hate for the thing I liked was so prevalent that I couldn't go into the character/media tag, or sometimes tags that weren't even about that unpopular character/ship/thing, without randomly running into hate for my favorite thing.

Feels bad, man.

#squiggposting #negativity #yes this is about idw op lol but i'm sure there's other things i could think of too #my thesis is basically just that with negative things like discourse you can block/ignore #with positive things you can find the people who like the thing you do and build communities around them #but when you like something everyone else hates you cannot help but be exposed to negativity in the process of trying to find positivity #and a lot of the time the community hate for the Thing You Like seeps even into unrelated topics/conversations #to the point where 'just block/don't like don't look' doesn't really help #because if you blocked or stopped looking in every place you saw hate #you would basically not be able to interact with 90% of the people/content because that's what it would take to ignore the hate/bad takes

[greensaplinggrace]

people will really just throw any tag onto their inflammatory posts. like i promise you that the normal people in this fandom don't want to see your rancid discourse when they look in the tag of the thing they like

#grishaverse #shadow and bone #resident evil #ada wong #girl why are you tagging an anti darkling post with malina when it has nothing to do with it?? #liking something doesn't mean disliking something else? grow up? #sab fans will tag any anti post with six of crows #the soc fans dont want to see that! #the topic of your post isn't even remotely related! #some wild assumptions are going on in your brain about the delineation of love and hate in fandom #lmfao #also stop putting genyalina in your unrelated discourse while we're at it #the genyalina shippers dont care lmfao #if its not about genyalina then why are you tagging it... #and then ill see anti ada wong posts tagged with like chris redfield #girl why are you involving him #keep your sexism to yourself #myramblings

[aegonette]

Obsessed with people in this fandom who'll pull up a quarter of a sentence from The Source Material to try to prove that Rhaenyra's brunette boys have personalities (that aren't interchangeable) but when the same source material clearly says the smallfolk adored Alicent Helaena Jaehaera, they're suddenly Jared, 19.

#txt.me #just summ i noticed #i swear they'll act like most outrageous mushroom stories about Alicent are written in stone #but when something is routinely mentioned and makes perfect narrative sense (why else would helaena's death spark a riot?) #then it's suddenly just unreliable history #hotd discourse

[aropride]

ok well we know that jesus can emit pure light as he did when he was in his tomb + i assume the light is holiness or joy or purity (considering his spirit was in heaven but his body had died in sin) (considering his body was holy but his spirit was drowning in unquenchable fire).. thinking about the version of jesus i made up in my head who's way cooler and more transgender and i think he would emit sparks and a glowing electric light if you fucked him and i think it would inspire an unfathomably intense lust

#text #this is NOT me taking a stance on whether jesus went to heaven or hell when he died #i didnt know there was discourse about this til i googled to double check i thought it was a given that he went to hell ?? #i was CERTAIN it was hell because what else would the damn point of the crucifixion be #gotquestions dot org is trying to say Ofc he didnt go to hell hes too special and ur just reading the verse wrong #which like. ok but THE POINT OF HIS DEATH WAS TO WASH EVERYONES SIN AWAY AND PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE #WHICH IS *DEATH* WHICH LEADS TO *GOING TO HELL* IF YOU'RE NOT SAVED. WHICH HE WASNT! BECAUSE *HE WAS THE SACRIFICE* #THATS THE WHOLE POINT!!! HE WAS DOOMED BY THE NARRATIVE. HE WENT TO HELL. HE CAME BACK. #um. i rescind my previous statement about not taking a stance i think i have actually #But if u have like solid proof that isnt 1 peter 3:18-20 pls lmk i havent read the bible in years #OH YEAH DISCLAIMER: i am not xtian . just insane . i was raised as one so i know a lot of lore #but i have memory problems so i forgot a lot of lore #yay! #nsft #SORRY i have like brain problems that lead to me saying these things #likethere is genuinely something reallywrong with me i think But that's not really important read my funny posts boy #would you suck jesus's strap. it is glowing with holy light btw #sorry again #I would. #sorr y a third time #tboy jesus tag

[wowbright]

Love the assumption that if you are wlw then obviously you have to vote for Brittana as your favorite canon couple. As if sexual orientation determines which fictional characters' stories speak to you.

#fandom wank #tumblr discourse #also was super edified to learn today that I'm a total misogynist /s #actually I'm not a misogynist I just hate Santana #I mean if you love her that's fine with me I don't care #and even though I hate her that's not the reason I'm voting for klaine #I'm voting for klaine because I love them #and yes I suppose it is controversial for me to announce that I dislike Santana in the tags of my own post #but whatever #you don't have to like every character #and you don't have to justify your love for or dislike for any character #so if you love brittana just vote for them and talk about how great they are #and stop shitting on people who like something else #same to klainers but I haven't seen them doing the same things in the notes #which honestly is a refreshing change from 8 to 10 years ago

[lovelyfoolish]

tbh i’m not really a meta person but i’m a bioethicist by training and i thought this could be interesting to discuss 

i think n and m’s routes both have this underlying, unexplored discussion of bodily autonomy (which is what vampirism is all about when you’re a bioethicist. i am not just here for the sexy fangs, i am here for the ethical questions that will give u a headache!) 

and their experiences diverge and parallel and form this complete picture of what it means to be and have a body and it would be really fascinating to see a love triangle route for them because of it

m’s route, with its focus on the conflict between physical and emotional intimacy (putting aside, for a second, the shallowness of the separation between the two, because to be physically intimate with someone takes just as much bravery as sharing your feelings with them, actually), has to place an emphasis on the consent aspect of bodily autonomy, where choices you make about your body require your complete understanding and allowance, free from undue pressure

n’s route has a preoccupation with their vampirism. there’s this psychological concept called moral injury, where you feel like you’ve done something (or acquiesced to something, or allowed something) that is deeply against your morals/values/life, and your moral injury can become a disorder. it’s similar to ptsd (and often walks hand in hand with it), and people who experience moral injury feel intense shame or guilt about it. i think maybe n becoming a vampire caused them some fictional equivalent of a moral injury, especially considering the circumstances in which they were turned 

so n’s route approaches the question of bodily autonomy from the opposite side, when you have no choice but to consent (which is really common with disability, where you have to do things you don’t want to do because you do want to live) because to not consent would be death 

does that make sense? 

it’s like. m’s route is about what you do with a body. n’s route is about what you do to a body

#twc #disclaimer: i have not read book 3 so i don't know if i missed anything i'm just going off memory #if i delete this it's because i decided i was overthinking it #ptsd tw #idk what else to tw about but i am sure there is something so #ask to tw #long post #sorry for the snippy aside about physical intimacy the discourse on emotional vs physical is just. like really tiring lol #they're inseparable one is not superior to the other #anyway just some thoughts i had while i was working on the flutterby fic

[mishapen-dear]

genuine question but is there any fandom where a character is well written by the majority. im thinking about fandom culture and the spread of frustration when people dont write characters well but. honestly in all the fandoms ive been in there's only like, a Select number of authors who i trust to write Well, let alone write Well AND In Character. character analysis and writing and getting inside characters' heads are all separate skills (all of which are trained by roleplaying fyi can CONFIRM playing pretend with your friends is good for you). there's been more than once where I've disagreed with an interpretation that others agreed with, and then I turned out wrong. or i turned out right. like it doesnt matter WHO is right it just matters that differences in character analysis exist, so even if you DO write well AND write in character, your in character is still going to be someone else's out of character

there's this sort of. vibe. that to play in the sandbox you Need to be able to make a castle, and if you can't make a castle then you shouldn't bother, and it completely dismisses the idea that youre in that sandbox to PLAY in the first place. there's this Weight of disappointing someone if you can't build something that they like, but that forgets that you aren't there to build them a castle. like, be KIND. if you disagree with someone then please make an effort to do so kindly. i dont give a shit about fandom discourse but there is a reason kids get removed from sandboxes if they keep throwing sand in people's eyes. but if they don't like your misshapen sand pile, then youre not obligated to change it. even if you yourself end up hating that same sand pile later- youre not building a legacy. youre playing. and sometimes the result of that play is out of character drivel. theres a reason there are so many authors and so few who i like to consistently read and thats because everyone is Fucking Around in their hobby space. hash tag brag or whatever but i can build castles. ive built several that im v proud of. ive also dug holes in the sand for fun and then tripped on them when trying to get up. I often dug a hole and then got up and fucking- whoops, its a castle now, and i didn't realize i'd made something to be proud of until after the fact. the whole time while creating shit i was Convinced it was bullshit that didn't make sense. and then other times i was Convinced it was bullshit and then i was Right and i can look back and go. huh. ew. but it doesn't matter what the end result was, because i had fun playing in the sandbox

this wasn't meant to turn into a ramble but i have Feelings about bad art and art that's badly perceived and how public perception can screw with your head and how making art youre proud of is fucking. it's so difficult!!! it's hard!! it's really fun, which is why i try to make it, but i promise you it is Okay to not tryhard creativity. even if you CAN, it's okay not to do it all the time. or ever, even. fuck around find out have fun etc

#NOT a discourse post i am musing out loud #there's discourse goign around the dash rn or i wouldnt mention it #but the past few weeks ive seen a lot of “DONT fucking mischaracterize my guy my fuckign god” #which is one of the most frustrating pet peeve there is #but i think a lot too about little baby me #fresh on her writing journey #and how discouraged i would be if someone pointed out the mistakes id made #i made a Lot of fuckups #and i also think about this one fic where one of the characters was INCREDIBLY out of character #me today would not be able to stomach reading it #but baby me was so ENCHANTED #and it introduced to me the concept that you dont always know the reason someone does something #and it made me read even more #and because of that i eventually found Expert Skill level fics #which introduced me to MANY little tricks and fidgets ive tried to implement #there were so so many reviews on that fic that called it shit or complained about the bad characterization #but a decade later i still think about it #there were several very corny mine/craft horror fics i read #which back in the day would be called cringe #and those were what inspired me to write my first horror fic and now im Enchanted by the whole genre #theres a lot of stuff i dont like to read but i like that other people are enjoying themselves #i dont know how to be succinct i hope my point is coming across well #this ties into my thing where fiction is for you first others later #here are my credentials: bb/h fan since before the elections (hi i was the guy who noticed his lack of armour post elections) #and a cross-fandom comment trend of people going 'woa i can see this happening in canon' #im not talking out my ass i genuinely think its more important to have fun than to write accurate characterization #which. is a more 'duh' and clarifying thing than everything else ive written #but ah well c'est la vie #also also just realized this could be interpreted like that- NOT an attack on people who complain about mischaracterization either lmao #i do that too w friends. this is to reassure people who put pressure on themselves to create things Well all the time