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#the fact that it explains experiences that also apply to bi women is not biphobia
sheep-trenchcoat · 11 months
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something I've noticed delving into the bi lesbian "discourse" for the sake of learning is that those on each side seem to have a different argumentative style: those in favour of bi lesbianism seem often to be interested in history, explaining various reasonings behind the term, or simply a blanket statement that identity is complex along with explanation of that, while those who are against it seem to favour a rather quippy explanation of lesbians as "women exclusively attracted to women" and "non-men exclusively attracted to non-men", citing biphobia and homophobia without actually stating what it is about using words "wrong" to apply to yourself that's homophobic or (especially) biphobic, and recounting personal experiences of feeling like lesbian spaces have lost focus on women's attraction to women and started to become (undesirably) places where people talk about attraction to men. It's interesting because all three of those traits seem to be more common in ideologies which appeal heavily to emotion while being light on facts, whereas the bi lesbians and their (our?) allies look a lot more like a liberal trying to debate a fascist, getting swamped in excessive exposition. (NO WE DO NOT PISS ON THE POOR, I AM NOT CALLING ANYONE A FASCIST I AM DRAWING A COMPARISON BASED ON THE INEFFICACY OF LOGIC AGAINST QUIPPY EMOTIONAL ARGUMENT).
anyway if you're here to clown on bi lesbians please read the post again, that's not actually what it's about and is merely an underlying assumption so you have no argument to actually respond to, it's about how the rhetorical techniques employed seem to parallel other situations in which those using rhetorical techniques similar to anti-bi-lesbians are usually wrong specifically because that type of rhetoric is tailor-made to discourage analysis and encourage going with one's gut reactions. also not saying anti-bi-lesbians are ~shrill emotional women~ while bi lesbians and their supporters are ~rational logical skeptics~, it's very rational to encourage people not to think too hard about things when your points don't hold up well under detailed scrutiny and weren't that complex to begin with; I am accusing them of malice, not ignorance, by default, assuming that most are doing this on purpose while perhaps some are taken in by rhetoric.
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osmiabee · 3 years
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The day this website realises that labels should simply be a way to describe an overarching theme of a persons lived reality rather than shoehorning every microscopic detail of a persons life into a different pseudoscientific term as a way to seek ~validity~ from strangers online is the day I'll know peace
#not to invite disc horse in the year of our lord 2020 but bruh#i be out here... seeing things... and i just dont care for it??#contrary to popular belief there are a lot of ways to be a lesbian actually#you can be ace you can be non-binary you can be a questioning wlw that only wants to date women at the moment while you figure it all out#because ultimately it just has to be a theme of your lived reality like actual real life stuff that is happening to you#being like ''i think this broadly describes my current situation pretty accurately'' is like.. as far as these labels should go#you don't need a label for ''i have trust issues'' or ''i struggle to experience attraction because im traumatised'' you need a therapist#i say this from a place of love as a deeply traumatised dyke with a therapist#big up halima#but seriously dont stagnate because you've defined yourself into a tiny box because someone on the internet said it was valid#also while we're here and youre reading these tags like what the fuck set her off it was the lesbian masterdoc discourse#the fact that it explains experiences that also apply to bi women is not biphobia#its a facet of the fact that women experiencing attraction to women have shared lived experiences#there isnt some hard line to cross with lesbians trying to recruit and convert innocent bi girls to be evil dykes its just not happening#if bi women read it and go OH SHIT THATS ME IM DEFINITELY A LESBIAN thats cause for celebration#if they read it and go OH SHIT ME TOO but also I don't fully relate and I'm still bi then fuck yeah thats fine#like literally nobody is forcing anyone to read it#shared experiences... are normal and good actually#also while were here#gender non-conformity or being transfeminine or non-binary does not make you immune to being a lesbian#dont make me tap the sign#but like in all seriousness lesbian is such a good term with a rich history of gender non conformity and inclusivity#and its our responsibility as a collective to emphasize that the community can and does include transfeminine and nb identities#because it literally has in the past its a really recent modern change if you look historically#half the reputation is just straight up lesbophobia i cant even lie#but also a collective effort to be openly intersectional can only bring good things#wow this went off on a tangent#but also theres so many microdefinitions drawing these hard weird chopped up lines across the community#and it makes me sad#so stop it.. just fuckin live your life... and get a therapist... can be related i just think therapy is good anyway bye
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autumndiesirae · 6 years
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Response to @bigmeangatekeeper’s ‘Why I’m Exclusionist’ Page
So recently I came across by far one of the most bigoted exclusionists I’ve seen in a while, that being @bigmeangatekeeper. Normally I block and ignore these sorts of people but given the exceedingly harmful and frankly disgusting rhetoric espoused on this person’s blog, I felt it was necessary to make a formal response, even if the person in question isn’t going to listen to reason or care.
I’m going to be mentioning @herefortheace​ and @justaphobethings​ in this post for their reference, as the arguments presented here are common exclusionist rhetorics and also to share my resources with more inclusionist blogs.
DISCLAIMER: This is not intended to be a ‘callout’, not is it intended to call upon my followers/anyone to attack this blog. This is merely a response to tired old exclusionist rhetoric by an asexual who is sick of people legitimately trying to act like their gross views haven’t been time and time disproven. I also won’t be addressing this blog’s status as a truscum as that isn’t relevant to this post.
TW FOR RAPE/SEXUAL ASSAULT DISCUSSION AND RAPE APOLOGISM.
PAGE LINK
First thing’s first. While I do not automatically exclude LGBT aces, I exclude cishet aces AND homo/transphobic or homo/transphobia apologist aces. It’s not just about the cishets. It’s about so much more.
As stated hundreds of times before, there definitely are homophobic, biphobic, transphobic, sexist, and racist asexuals. There are also apologists for these asexuals. Absolutely no one is arguing that these are problematic people. However, exclusionists like to pretend that the occasional ‘bad’ asexual is somehow a representative of the entire community, to which I respond ‘how then do you feel about TERF lesbians or biphobic gay men?’ Because if a few bad members of a sexuality are enough to warrant that entire community being removed from the LGBT community as a whole, then this rhetoric should be applied to every single sexual orientation or gender identity. Yet, asexuals and aromantics get singled out for this time and time again. It’s almost like exclusionists are unwilling to admit that they just want to remove asexuals as a whole and are only grasping for excuses so much that they will use the occasional problematic ace as a gotcha to push forward their ideologies. It’s funny because half the time what exclusionists define as ‘homophobic asexuals’ are often either blatantly obvious trolls or minors simply making jokes or having fun with their identity.
Also, thank you for including SOME aces! We appreciate you soooo much for driving a wall between our community! /s
The standard of “SGA and trans” as requirement for entry to the LGBTQ community is used nowhere outside of aphobic tumblr, and it seems crafted specifically for the purpose of excluding aces, aros, NBs, intersex people, and others not deemed “gay enough”.
There are also many “SGA and trans” aces who are against the gatekeeping and feel that they are hated by these aphobes.
You’re not protecting me by being an ace/aro exclusionist.
What we hear when you say “I only support SGA Asexuals/Aromantics”
my favourite thing is when aphobes try to tell me that their aphobia doesn’t apply to me / affect me because “[i’m] queer for other reasons”
okay, you wanna know why I’m for including all aces in the LGBT+ community?
Why your acephobia and arophobia is really just bullshit
it really annoys me when I see Discoursers say they support LGBT+ aces, just not cishet ones.
when you say “i accept sga and trans aces and aros but not cishet aces/aros because they’re straight”
Suffering! Suffering?
when people ‘accept’ sga/mga/non-cis aces and aros, but not others, what it actually means is they accept the part of you that isn’t directly tied to your asexuality/aromanticism
if ur gonna fuckin claim those four letters cover them & the whole damn community, they sure as fuck can cover aces as well
“Ace discourse” is really a Tumblr-only thing
I’m a lesbian ace and I’ve never felt more worthless and disgusting than this ace discourse
The reason even trans and bi/gay/pan/etc asexuals get defensive when you talk about cishet aces/aros not being part of the LGBT+ community is because you’re erasing a part of our identity??
If you talk shit about aces/aros with the disclaimer “cishet” it still affects all aces. Saying “notably cishet aces should all go die” still makes all ace/aro people feel like they are being called out.
Your “discourse” is harmful to all asexuals. And PS, your rhetoric is literally indistinguishable from TWERF rhetoric.
It’s about the blatant homophobia, transphobia, and serophobia in the ace community.
Again, this may exist in some members of the community, but that does not magically erase the status of the community as being LGBT. If it did, TERFs lesbians would have caused the lesbian community to be no longer considered LGBT.
It’s about there being no consistent definition of asexuality, thus allowing literally anyone regardless of relationship status, libido, etc to claim the ace label, and thereby try to shoulder their way into the LGBT community.
There is a consistent definition of asexuality. It’s ‘a lack of sexual attraction’. Libido, relationship status, etc, do not have any role in the asexual label. This has been the definition of asexuality for years. Looking up ‘asexuality’ on Google literally explains this:
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I found these in one quick search. What’s your excuse?
The reason there appears to be ‘no consistent definition’ is the fault of non-asexuals and exclusionists pushing their own definitions of what asexuality is so that they can later pretend that its the asexuals who are changing the definition. The idea that asexuals never have sex was a misconstruing of the description of sex-repulsed asexuals. The idea that asexuals don’t have a libido also came from this. Asexuals can and do masturbate (for pleasure or stress relief), have sex (for pleasure or to have children), etc. These are not related to the definition of asexuality.
Additionally, if the fact that there isn’t a consistent definition of asexuality bothers you, then why not address how bisexuals and pansexuals don’t always have a consistent definition for their sexuality either? Some bisexuals claim the bi label is only for men and women, some say it includes nonbinary people, some say bisexuality is a transphobic label compared to pansexuality, etc, etc.
It’s about asexuals telling traumatised people/mentally ill people/dysphoric people/autistic people/CHILDREN that they’re ace rather then encouraging them to consider other reasons why they might feel sex repulsed.
Telling an individual ‘have you considered you may be asexual’ is not the same that saying ‘you are asexual, no arguments, you just are’. A person suggesting a label is not forcing anyone to co-opt that label. In addition, sexualities are fluid. I know many people who identified as ace at a younger age and then identified differently at an older age. I know many people who are the reverse. Are there individuals who identified incorrectly as ace at one age and feel upset or angry about it? Absolutely. But that is not the fault of any asexual who suggested the label. And, again, sex repulsion is not the requirement for being asexual.
It’s about asexuals not understanding that asexuality is not comparable to other sexualities bc it’s about how you feel attraction instead of who you feel attraction to
“Human sexuality is the way people experience and express themselves sexually. This involves biological, erotic, physical, emotional, social, or spiritual feelings and behaviors. Because it is a broad term, which has varied over time, it lacks a precise definition.” From Wikipedia
A Definition of Sexuality
Sexuality is no longer just about ‘who’ you experience attraction to.
It’s about asexuals hypersexualising all other sexualities (most particularly gay people) and making us out to be fucking sex craved deviants
Citation fucking needed. Also, yet again, a few asexuals doing this (not that I have ever seen any aside from one extremely obvious troll doing this) is not somehow a representation of the entire community.
It’s about asexuals pushing the toxic and harmful split attraction model even though it’s been shown time and time again to allow people to explain away their internalised homophobia/biphobia, and encouraging microlabelling that just confuses people more and causes divisiveness in the community
What we call the split-attraction model was first described by Karl Heinrich Ulrichs, a gay advocate from the 1800s, as “disjunctive uranodioning”. (source) (credit to this post)
There is absolutely no evidence aside from exclusionist rhetoric to uphold the idea that the SAM is homophobic or toxic. Additionally the SAM is used by non-ace and non-aro people regularly - I am familiar with many people who make that distinction in their romantic and sexual orientations, such as one friend who is pansexual but heteroromantic (in that she will have sex with all genders but prefers to romantically date men). It seems your bigger issue is the existence of microlabelling, which while that is a debatable problem in this community, at the end of the day it really isn’t any of your business. The only real source of divisiveness in this community is gatekeepers like you.
It’s about asexuals erasing gay history and literally just fabricating false stories for asexual representation, usually at the expense of gay people
Citation needed, once again.
Asexuals recorded as “Group X” in the 1948 Kinsey Reports
What is asexual history? The 19th and 20th century
From The Westminster Review, a political magazine, in 1907; an essay by Helen Fraser called Women’s Suffrage, on how if women got the vote, butch and ace women were gonna dominate the whole thing and screw it up for all the Real Ladies.
The Spinster Movement, and how they were treated as queer
From “Feminism,” by Correa Moylan Walsh, 1917
the “aces/aros were part of the bi community until they very recently chose to split off, so stop telling them that they have never been queer or that they don’t belong in ‘the LGBT community’” masterpost
asexuality existed before David Jay and AVEN
“Where were you when…?” A History of Asexual Inclusion (Part One)
“Where were you when…?” A History of Asexual Inclusion (Part Two)
It’s about asexuals stealing autistic terminology, and creating false axes of oppression that make literally everyone who isn’t ace their oppressors
The ‘actuallyasexual’ tag supposedly being stolen from the ‘actuallyautistic’ tag was never proven to be a legitimate claim. Autistic people have repeatedly come forward saying that this was never the case. Since I am not autistic, however, I won’t press on this particular point. If anyone is autistic and has some information on this, please DM me.
It’s about adult asexuals literally acting like children and using the ‘uwu im a pure ace’ response
Citation needed. I’m sensing a trend here.
Any asexual who partakes in, excuses, or explains away this behaviour in the ace community is dangerous and could easily cause harm to the LGBT community.
Once again - TERF lesbians, transphobic gay man, etc. should also be included under this rhetoric if you’re going to treat asexuals this way, otherwise you’re just being a hypocrite.
Asexuals are not oppressed under homophobia or transphobia. The LGBT community was not built just to combat oppression, because that would mean women and POC would automatically be LGBT, which is absurd. The community was developed specifically so that SGA and non-cis people would have a place to get away from societal homophobia and transphobia, and to push back against legally instituted oppression, like fighting for gay marriage, and to get laws put in place that protect us from hate crimes.
Firstly, SGA (same-gender attraction) is a term that was used and is still used in Mormon conversion therapy, so as one can understand,a lot of people are very uncomfortable being labeled with this description. 
Secondly -
“The LGBT community has always been about fighting homophobia and transphobia/we came together to fight homophobia and transphobia”
“Homophobia and Transphobia”: What does the LGBT+ community fight for?
The modern American movement was first known as the “gay community” when cis gay men refused to even accept lesbians, then the “gay and lesbian community”. (Good reading on the subject.)
“After the elation of change following group action in the Stonewall riots in New York, in the late 1970s and the early 1980s, some gays and lesbians became less accepting of bisexual or transgender people. Critics said that transgender people were acting out stereotypes and bisexuals were simply gay men or lesbian women who were afraid to come out and be honest about their identity. Each community has struggled to develop its own identity including whether, and how, to align with other gender and sexuality-based communities, at times excluding other subgroups; these conflicts continue to this day.” (source)
“From about 1988, activists began to use the initialism LGBT in the United States. Not until the 1990s within the movement did gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people gain equal respect.” (ibid)
These are scans of a gay magazine from 1999 showing that 48% of those surveyed did not believe that trans people should be a part of the gay community.
The community’s boundaries have always been in flux
Insisting that LG people have always been accepting of bi and trans people is incredibly revisionist and does a great deal of injustice to those who have been excluded.
While I agree that asexuals go through some discrimination, ‘aphobia’ is not an axis of oppression because it is not institutionalised. The discrimination asexual and aromantic people face is based within rape culture, toxic masculinity, traditionalist values, and misogyny.
You sound like transphobic sexists who claim trans men do not experience transphobia that is specific to trans men (transmisandry) much in the same way that trans women experience transphobia specific to trans women (transmisogyny).
First of all, what do you use as the definition of ‘institutionalized’?
Second, why are you acting like asexuals are seen as some ‘other’ group rather than a part of the LGBT community when institutionalized discrimination is being discussed?
Third, ‘institutionalized discrimination’ was never a requirement to be LGBT. By that logic, a gay man who lives in a country/state where gay marriage is legal, conversion therapy is banned, and who has never experienced any form of anti-LGBT discrimination in his life is straight. That’s an asinine proposition.
For some examples of asexual-specific discrimination - 
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“My parents keep telling me that I’m something else, and it’s making me doubt my sense of judgement, not just about my sexual identity, but also about everything in general.”
“My family, friends, and co-workers keep referring to me as an inanimate object in a manner that’s clearly meant to humiliate and devastate me. Nothing I say will get them to stop.”
“My parents vocally/bodily forced me to undergo medical examinations, some of them concerning my sexual organs, many of them concerning blood tests and other trauma-centric procedures.”
“My family is intervening with my private life by changing my schedule to include exercise, socialization, friend influences, and whatever they think can ‘change’ me.”
“My friends/co-workers no longer respect my bodily boundaries when I came out to them, because they no longer see me as someone who should be respected. They regularly touch, fondle, grope, and prod me without permission, and/or verbally harass me, and don’t take my objections seriously.”
“My family, friends, and co-workers no longer just harass me, but also anyone I’m currently dating because they view my significant other as pathetic, underserved, or even being abused.”
“My date got irrationally angry and confrontational when I came out to them, in a manner that made me fearful.” (SO many of these.)
“My date immediately lost any respect they had for my boundaries, no longer asked for consent, and {tried to} force themselves upon me.” (A lot of these, too)
“My date tried to verbally circumvent any boundaries and issues I confessed to, and it made me feel like I was in danger.”
“I didn’t come out to my date at first, and when they found out, they radically changed their behavior in an attempt to control and manipulate our new relationship to their benefit.”
“My partner has forcefully and radically changed our long-term relationship after finding out about my asexuality, and I’m now trapped and controlled in a way that I wasn’t before.”
“My partner broke up with me/is fighting with me because of my asexuality, and trying to make it seem like I’m hurting them. It’s made me doubt myself and my ability to trust my own intentions.”
“My partner is slowly changing from what was once supportive of my asexuality, and I’m wondering when I have the right to be worried and when I’d be overreacting. I’m aware of the worst case scenario, but I also worry that I’m being selfish and childish - which are things I’ve been told all throughout my asexual experience.”
“I don’t trust my ability to say either yes or no in sexual situations, and this has extended to my life in general. I don’t feel comfortable in my ability to self-determinate.”
“The lack of authority, definition, and schooling of the concept of asexuality has made me very uncomfortable with what I think I am, and that uncertainty haunts me every waking moment.”
“I think it’s too late/too early to tell if I’m asexual, but the longer I hesitate, the worse my mental health and emotional wellbeing gets. I’m effectively stuck.”
“I see no benefit in coming out, or even identifying as asexual. There’s no positivity, role models, or supportive community for what I consider a big and scary part of my overall identity.”
“I think this was sexual abuse, but I’m wondering if I’m just being selfishand childish.”
“I think I was treated badly by my parents/friends/partner, but I’m wondering if I’m just being selfishand childish.”
“I want to believe that I’m deserving of equal freedom and human respect paid to other, not asexual people, but people tell me I’m being selfishand childish.”
“No one encourages this part of me. And that makes me feel forgotten and abandoned in general.”
Dr Gordon Hodson wrote this about his 2012 study:
In a recent investigation (MacInnis & Hodson, in press) we uncovered strikingly strong bias against asexuals in both university and community samples. Relative to heterosexuals, and even relative to homosexuals and bisexuals, heterosexuals: (a) expressed more negative attitudes toward asexuals (i.e., prejudice); (b) desired less contact with asexuals; and © were less willing to rent an apartment to (or hire) an asexual applicant (i.e., discrimination). Moreover, of all the sexual minority groups studied, asexuals were the most dehumanized (i.e., represented as “less human”). Intriguingly, heterosexuals dehumanized asexuals in two ways. Given their lack of sexual interest, widely considered a universal interest, it might not surprise you to learn that asexuals were characterized as “machine-like” (i.e., mechanistically dehumanized). But, oddly enough, asexuals were also seen as “animal-like” (i.e., animalistically dehumanized). Yes, asexuals were seen as relatively cold and emotionless and unrestrained, impulsive, and less sophisticated.
When you repeatedly observe such findings it grabs your attention as a prejudice researcher. But let’s go back a minute and consider those discrimination effects. Really? You’d not rent an apartment to an asexual man, or hire an asexual woman? Even if you relied on stereotypes alone, presumably such people would make ideal tenants and employees. We pondered whether this bias actually represents bias against single people, a recently uncovered and very real bias in its own right (see Psychology Today column by Bella DePaulo). But our statistical analyses ruled out this this possibility. So what’s going on here?
If you’ve been following my column, you’ll recall that I wrote a recent article on what I called the “Bigotry Bigot-Tree” – what psychologists refer to as generalized prejudice. Specifically, those disliking one social group (e.g., women) also tend to dislike other social groups (e.g., homosexuals; Asians). In our recent paper (MacInnis & Hodson, in press), we found that those who disliked homosexuals also disliked bisexuals and asexuals. In other words, these prejudices are correlated. Heterosexuals who dislike one sexual minority, therefore, also dislike other sexual minorities, even though some of these groups are characterized by their sexual interest and activity and others by their lack of sexual interest and activity.
This anti-asexual bias, at its core, seems to boil down to what Herek (2010) refers to as the “differences as deficit” model of sexual orientation. By deviating from the typical, average, or normal sexual interests, sexual minorities are considered substandard and thus easy targets for disdain and prejudice. Contrary to conventional folk wisdom, prejudice against sexual minorities may not therefore have much to do with sexual activity at all. There is even evidence, for instance, that religious fundamentalists are prejudiced against homosexuals even when they are celibate (Fulton et al., 1999). Together, such findings point to a bias against “others”, especially different others, who are seen as substandard and deficient (and literally “less human”). “Group X” is targeted for its lack of sexual interest even more than homosexuals and bisexuals are targeted for their same-sex interests.
From news coverage of a recently published study (2016):
What should the average person take away from your study?
Since I first became interested in the issue, I have come to conclude that U.S. society is both “sex negative” and “sex positive.” In other words, there is stigma and marginalization that can come both from being “too sexual” and from being “not sexual enough.” In a theoretical paper, I argued that sexuality may be compulsory in contemporary U.S. society. In other words, our society assumes that (almost) everyone is, at their core, “sexual” and there exists a great deal of social pressure to experience sexual desire, engage in sexual activities, and adopt a sexual identity. At the same time, various types of “non-sexuality” (such as a lack of sexual desire or activity) are stigmatized.
For this particular study, I identified thirty individuals who identified as asexual and asked them first, if they had experienced stigma or marginalization as a result of their asexuality, and, second how they challenged this stigma or marginalization. I found that my interviewees had experienced the following forms of marginalization: pathologization (i.e. people calling them sick), social isolation, unwanted sex and relationship conflict, and the denial of epistemic authority (i.e. people not believing that they didn’t experience sexual attraction). I also found that my interviews resisted stigma and marginalization in five ways: describing asexuality as simply a different (but not inherently worse) form of sexuality; deemphasizing the importance of sexuality in human life; developing new types of nonsexual relationships; coming to see asexuality as a sexual orientation or identity; and engaging in community building and outreach.
I hope that average people would take away from this study the idea that some people can lead fulfilling lives without experiencing sexual attraction but can experience distress if others try to invalidate their identities.
Some of the social isolation we aspecs experience comes from religious communities. Indeed, the popular myth that religious people revere aspecs is very much NOT TRUE. For example, read “Myth 8″ from the VISION Catholic Religious Vocation Guide:
MYTH 8: Religious are asexual
Question: What do you call a person who is asexual?
Answer: Not a person. Asexual people do not exist.Sexuality is a gift from God and thus a fundamental part of our human identity. Those who repress their sexuality are not living as God created them to be: fully alive and well. As such, they’re most likely unhappy. All people are called by God to live chastely, meaning being respectful of the gift of their sexuality. Religious men and women vow celibate chastity, which means they live out their sexuality without engaging in sexual behavior. A vow of chastity does not mean one represses his manhood or her womanhood. Sexuality and the act of sex are two very different things. While people in religious life abstain from the act of sex, they do not become asexual beings, but rather need to be in touch with what it means to be a man or a woman. A vow of chastity also does not mean one will not have close, loving relationships with women and men. In fact, such relationships are a sign of living the vow in a healthy way. Living a religious vow of chastity is not always easy, but it can be a very beautiful expression of love for God and others. Religious women and men aren’t oddities; they mirror the rest of the church they serve: there are introverts and extroverts, tall and short, old and young, straight and gay, obese and skinny, crass and pious, humorous and serious, and everything in between. They attempt to live the same primary vocation as all other Christians do: proclaiming and living the gospel. However, religious do this as members of an order that serve the church and world in a particular way. Like marriage and the single life, religious life can be wonderful, fulfilling, exciting, and, yes, normal. Yet, it also can be countercultural and positively challenging. It’s that for us and many others. If you thought religious life was outdated, dysfunctional, or dead, we hope you can now look beyond the stereotypes and see the gift it is to the church and world.
NOTE: YOU CAN BE A GAY CATHOLIC PERSON BUT NOT ASEXUAL, BC ASEXUALITY DOESN’T EXIST (yet somehow we’re also “most likely unhappy” and “oddities”). I sincerely hope and believe that not all religions characterize us aspecs this way. But here are some personal accounts I found on a reddit site answering the question “Do any religions have a negative stance toward asexuals?”:
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Please note that the Christian pastor in the last example was fearful (or something?) that an asexual was helping to lead a youth group and kicked them out of the church as a result.
(Not to mention that there is now a published dissertation with a whole chapter dedicated to understanding why a-spec people have been erased from history and virtually invisible up until recently, which is a very real issue in this debate that cannot be ignored).
This argument is as tired as the rest of the ones you’re putting out. And since i know you’re just going to ignore this with some backhanded commentary - 
If we give primary sources based on lived experiences (which is the basis of qualitative research, which founded so much of the fields of psychology, sociology, anthropology, and more, and is still used today as a very common research practice), such evidence is dismissed because it’s not academic or in a news publication. Never mind that this practice of citing tumblr blogs for personal experiences is similar in practice (if not as rigorous) as netnographic research (a practice developed by Rob Kozinets, whose book on it has close to 1500 google scholar citations, and whose seminal article on it has over 2000).
If we give articles from press outlets, they are dismissed as commercial and therefore not acceptable. (I could find a lot more of this, but look, it’s happened a lot and not main point here).
If we give academic citations, such as the study that was published a few years ago (what I’ve seen referred to as’ the Group X study’ by discoursers), they are dismissed (read, not ‘debunked’ because that is a different thing) because popular press such as psychologytoday.com dared to cover the story, or because they don’t believe the need for such study exists, and because someone hadn’t read the original research so felt free to critique it’s methods (????).  Slightly more legitimately, I’ve seen it dismissed based on the use of convenience samples (though I can’t find the link), but it’s worth pointing out that the actual research also used a sample drawn from the general public. And if you’re dismissing a study based on the use of a convenience sample, you can also throw out about 90% of academic research done in psychology and related fields in the past 40 years. Almost all research uses convenience sampling, and this study actually went beyond that anyway.
(For the record, that study also goes a long way to explain why intra-community aphobia exists, if you read the full article, and finds that the more biased people are also more right-wing authoritarian and endorse social-dominance orientation, basically meaning they “endorse dominance and inter-group hierarchies”).
Source with more information
Literally every argument for ace oppression, like corrective rape for example, is not ace exclusive. On the other hand, gay and trans people face specific pointed prosecution for being non-cis or SGA.
“The term ‘corrective rape’ was coined by South African lesbians and should only be used by lesbians”
No one means any disrespect to lesbians or other victims of corrective rape, but this is not a correct statement.
“We’ll Show You You’re a Woman” describes the violence directed towards LGBT people in South Africa, stating, “Negative public attitudes towards homosexuality go hand in hand with a broader pattern of discrimination, violence, hatred, and extreme prejudice against people known or assumed to be lesbian, gay, and transgender, or those who violate gender and sexual norms in appearance or conduct (such as women playing soccer, dressing in a masculine manner, and refusing to date men).” It goes on to say, “Much of the recent media coverage of violence against lesbians and transgender men has been characterized by a focus on “corrective rape,” a phenomenon in which men rape people they presume or know to be lesbians in order to “convert” them to heterosexuality.”
The Wikipedia article on corrective rape in South Africa states that, “A study conducted by OUT LGBT Well-being and the University of South Africa Centre for Applied Psychology (UCAP) showed that “the percentage of black gay men who said they have experienced corrective rape matched that of the black lesbians who partook in the study”.”
It is not only lesbians, but also bisexual women, transgender men, gay men, and gender non-conforming people in South Africa who experience corrective rape. This is not in any way meant to minimize the horror of the epidemic or shift attention away from lesbians, but other victims, including asexuals, deserve attention as well. Do not silence or speak over victims of rape by policing their language.
And regarding ace-specific discrimination, I provided a wall of it, if you’d like to scroll up and read it again.
I’ve been beaten bloody while called a fag and a tranny and left for dead. I’ve had a guy rape me while aggressively misgendering me and telling me what a freak cuntboy I was. Those attacks were specifically because I’m trans and gay. Ace people are attacked because they won’t have sex, not because they’re ace. It’s just good old fashioned rape, there’s no hate crime element I guarantee it.
I’m very sorry that happened to you.
I was repeatedly molested by my first boyfriend because he told me that “wouldn’t be ace anymore when he was done with me”. I’ve been punched, thrown to the ground, and had my nose broken because I wore an asexual flag pin on my backpack, with people calling me a disgusting queer. My girlfriend of five years, the person I intended to marry, cheated on me with a mutual friend because I was asexual and ‘didn’t validate her body’. And, as I already shown, my experiences are commonplace for asexuals. Your trauma, as horrible as it is, does not give you any right to say that an asexual who is raped and told “I’ll fix you” is not ‘good old fashioned rape’.
Please read this and tell me about how there’s no hate crime element to it:
“‘I just want to help you,’ he called out to me as I walked away from his car,” she explained. “He was basically saying that I was somehow broken and that he could repair me with his tongue and, theoretically, with his penis. It was totally frustrating and quite scary.”
Sexual harassment and violence, including so-called “corrective” rape, is disturbingly common in the ace community, says Decker, who has received death threats and has been told by several online commenters that she just needs a “good raping.”
“When people hear that you’re asexual, some take that as a challenge,” said Decker, who is currently working on a book about asexuality. “We are perceived as not being fully human because sexual attraction and sexual relationships are seen as something alive, healthy people do. They think that you really want sex but just don’t know it yet. For people who perform corrective rape, they believe that they’re just waking us up and that we’ll thank them for it later.”
“There is a real fear even among the asexual community that people who identify as anything other than heterosexual will be harassed and assaulted,” wrote “Angela,” a self-identified aromantic ace. “They have a reason to be upset and a reason to be afraid, it has happened to many people before.”
In response to the post, an anonymous user wrote, “[A]sexuality is not a thing. You are just ugly and no one wanted to date you, so you made up a thing to cuddle your lonely self as you cry into your pillow. Also, I hope you get raped. It has a dual benefit, you’ll get laid finally AND put you into your place as well.”
The comment triggered a firestorm, with some asexuals speaking out and sharing their own experiences involving sexual violence.
Asexuals and ace activists say the conversation about sexual assault in the asexual community is part of the wider societal discussion about rape culture generally and about corrective rape in the queer community specifically. They also say it speaks to a bias and an invisibility that asexuals face in everyday life.
Source
Asexuals and aromantics are notoriously homophobic, transphobic, and serophobic in their arguments. I personally have seen them say things about inclusionists like ‘I hope they get antibiotic resistant gonorrhoea and crabs in the same week’ (actual quote), I’ve been told ‘you probably have aids’ because I’m a gay man, I’ve seen them argue that non-ace people can’t be raped because we constantly want sex and have had my own assaults denied, etc. This wasn’t just one incident, it’s a pattern. Over and over ace people wish violent sexual threats on non-ace people. They call us disgusting. They call us filthy. They call us ‘the oppressive monogays’ and ‘filthy allos’. I’ve had them go so far as to fling homophobic slurs at me, and say we deserved the aids crisis. Sorry, but any group that is totally fine with even some of its members being that actively, unabashedly homophobic has absolutely no place in this community. I wouldn’t let my grandfather who called me a pathetic fag into the community either, no matter how much sex he did or didn’t have.
I like how you say ‘actual quote’ and yet do not provide a single link, screenshot, or even falsified anonymous message as proof of this.
For the 100th time - the behavior of a few asexuals does not represent the entire community, otherwise TERF lesbians, transphobic gay men, biphobic trans people, etc, would mean their entire community are no longer considered LGBT.
Would you like a glimpse at some of the behavior exclusionists that are ‘real LGBT’ bestow on asexuals?
Comparing aces and aros to Trump  (and pretending this is funny)
Comparing aces to Pence  
Comparing aces to Ronald Reagan (and pretending this is funny)
Comparing aces to a literal slave owner
Making fun of aces not being accepted by their parents and of aces finding this upsetting (making it into a crytyping “joke”)
Making aces feel shitty/shaming them for telling their parents they’re ace because it’s supposedly “unnecessary”
Saying if we tell family about being ace, it’s no wonder if they send us to therapy
Doing their best to sexualize the orientations of aces, in so many cases. The link before these two is also connected to that. They treat our orientations like (graphic) details about “our sex lives”, frequently acting like if we want to talk about them ever we’re gross/creepy
This one is also “nice” re sexualizing aces (one of many examples of ppl also engaging in sex-shaming while they’re at it, saying only one’s partner should know anything about one’s “relationships with sex”. Except this person goes kinda even further)
More sexualization, when I say this freaks me out as a WoC, I’m told this white person gives no fucks and wants me to be miserable
Another person who says the identities of aces but also of aros need to stay between them and their Partners because they’re “TMI” and inherently sex-shaming somehow
Oh yeah did I mention, much the same with sexualizing aros and ppl frequently link our identities to misogyny and to using people while they’re at it
Making light and fun of ace WoC asking to not be sexualized because don’t we know aces have done Bad things and so we deserve it/don’t get to complain
One of many examples of white people who hate aces+aros talking over PoC and trying to erase us from our communities (+usually when we call that shit out they don’t care. This is actually one of the more cordial responses I’ve come across despite the lack of apology lol. [Eta: my wording here was misleading before, they weren’t talking to me - I’d also called them on this but they ignored me. Sorry for the confusion!] Also, I have a tag somewhere with several non-black/white ppl who made Rachel Dolezal comparisons to shit on aces/aros). Another example of talking over us here complete with condescendingly lecturing a PoC about racism
People like this saying outright they hate aces
Saying sex ed shouldn’t teach about asexuality
Outright stating they think being ace/aro gives people privilege (because supposedly aces+aros both benefit from conservatives pushing for abstinence)
Outright invalidating the identities of aces (who don’t have the attitude towards sex they think they should have)
Calling asexuals demons
Outright calling aces and aros a “plague” and saying aces/aros regardless of other identities all need to be kicked out of the LGBT+ community.
Erasing the identities of people who speak out against anti-ace/aro shit to declare them “straight” or “cishet” …or saying that treatment is what they get for being “traitors to their own community”
Ignoring the boundaries of aces/aros who have them blocked and don’t want to be vagued to make fun of them …
…or even to continue sexualizing them after they have made it very clear that shit freaks them out (cheerfully doing this to a WoC)
Someone saying asexuality does not exist and “encourages slut shaming”
Spamming the ace positivity tag with vile hate (ppl have talked a lot about how this harms and endangers especially mentally ill ppl)
“aces are embarassing“ in the positivity tag
Posting nsfw content in the ace positivity tag and being completely unapologetic, apparently using the reasoning that our identities are inherently nsfw anyway (see the “TMI discourse” aka people sexualizing our identities)
Calling aces and aros a “sexuality fandom” while pretending we’re a group full of people with every privilege imaginable, bored of being accepted by everyone and of having no Actual Problems in our lives. This kind of nasty erasure constantly goes on and is a big tactic in this mess tbh
Wanting aces to be “exterminated”. For good measure putting this in the ace positivity tag
This disgusting vile shit that I don’t even know how to sum up but it includes wishing death on someone
Talking about wanting aces/aros dead after somehow misunderstanding(?) a post that was very clearly not about asexuality or aromanticism
Graphically telling aces to die
Specifically telling ace kids to kill themselves
Did I mention that many people in this mess have wished death on aces and aros and that they often put it in positivity tags. Some of the most messed up shit I’ve seen is missing because I didn’t reblog/respond to it at the time or can’t find it right now
And I know anons don’t count as hard “proof” for anything but have the less graphic one of the death/rape threats I got in my inbox for speaking out against anti-ace/aro shit (still kinda eerily detailed though. Not linking the other one because it is extremely graphic)
Comparing aces to a literal white supremacist (in the positivity tag)
Again someone invalidating the identities of aces who don’t have the attitude towards sex they think they should have
Sexualizing aros again, not caring about how it affects particularly aro PoC. And here two other ppl sexualizing and demonizing aros, like in posts further above claiming (non-ace) aros just use people for sex (said on positivity post).
Someone sexualizing aces again and engaging in sex-shaming at the same time, as usual with the claim that literally no one but a partner “needs” to know our orientations
Those Rachel Dolezal comparisons I mentioned made by non-black/white people who want to use antiblackness for what they call “ace discourse”?Yeah here is one white person doing it and here is another, even worse example where a white person goes “this is like if I pulled a Rachel D. and put on blackface and used the n-word…” (paraphrasing here). Here is the latter person utterly dismissing me being upset by their antiblackness (because black ppl’s pain only matters when it’s useful)
[For ppl who don’t know: Rachel Dolezal is a white woman who pretended to be black and built her career on it. White people sure as hell do not get to compare this shit to anything that is not antiblackness and use black people’s pain for their own purposes.]
A white person using antiblackness as a weapon against aces and aros in general (aka “ace tumblr”), acting smug regarding how supposedly we’re all so racist and “get triggered” by black people existing. (I am so tired of white ppl using racism as a cheap “gotcha” against aces and aros - groups which include PoC. And who then ignore or belittle PoC who call them out)
White person randomly informing WoC aces/aros can have white privilege
Again someone claiming ace privilege exists and here another person doing it adding to the post further above, claiming aces/aros have privilege for being ace/aro and that this is the case bc people who don’t have sex are privileged (wrong definition of asexuality… also of aromanticism??… and also no. No.)
What I mentioned about ppl telling us asexuality/aromanticism are not orientations but only ever modifiers? It’s happened a lot but here’s one example. And here’s someone outright saying aro aces don’t have an orientation but only modifiers.
Here’s the same person who said aro aces don’t have an orientation later turning around saying the orientation of aro aces is determined by how they behave and who they have sex with.
Another person putting nsfw shit in the ace positivity tag (link is to nsfw text)
And people try really hard to justify despising aces and aros by pointing to shitty people who share our identities/orientations. Honesty is secondary in this. Here you have someone taking a shitty post from an obvious nasty troll blog to say this is why ppl hate aces, and later when having the troll thing pointed out to them saying they already know. The post got over 3k notes.
“asexual shouldn’t even be a way people identify themselves”, with a second person in the thread agreeing
If you’re interested, some way back I also made a link-less post that is important to me talking about how nasty and harmful the racism and erasure of ace and aro PoC in all this has been
These are not even referring to more recent horrors that the exclusionist community has forced down our throats.
They don’t have a coherent definition of asexuality. Literally there’s no cohesive definition. None. Some of them say it’s people who feel no sexual attraction, some say it’s people who feel no sexual desire, some say you can have and enjoy sex and still be totally valid uwu, some say you can only have sex to please a partner, some say you have to be sex repulsed, the list goes on and fucking on. If we let in a group that has a definition that’s this fucking loose, we are opening the door for literally anyone to shoulder their way into this community.
I’ve already addressed this. There is a consistent definition. One Google search gets you that definition.
And even if there wasn’t, or if certain people reframe the definition to better mesh with their own personal experiences, why are you not extending this same rude-ass rhetoric towards bisexuals and pansexuals who constantly argue over the definitions of bi- and pansexuality? Why are you not extending this towards cis lesbians who argue if trans women can or cannot be WLW? Why are you not extending this towards cis gay men who argue if trans men can or cannot by MLM?
No one is ‘shouldering’ their way into any community. The asexual community is already a part of the LGBT movement. They’re not leaving just because you make rude posts like this.
Almost every single exclusionist I’ve spoken to has thought at some time or another that they were ‘demisexual’ or ‘grey-ace’ or some other bullshit ‘aspec’ term.
Exclusionists who do identified or have identified as asexual are not some sort of ‘gotcha’ for how the asexual community is bad. Once again, ace people expressing their experiences and suggesting to someone ‘you might be ace’ are not somehow homophobic or forcing people to be LGBT any more than the people in my life who told me I may be trans or agender were transphobic or forcing me to be trans or agender. If someone no longer identifies as asexual because of any given reason, that isn’t the fault of the asexual community for expressing that the option exists.
Have you ever spoken to an asexual who first found out about the definition of asexuality? Let me share my experience - when I first discovered the definition of asexuality and realized ‘oh, that’s me’, I sobbed tears of joy and relief for hours. I spent ages pouring over asexuality resources and participating in forums and embracing my new identity. And my experience isn’t some one-off thing - if you look into asexuality forums and websites, this is something many of us experience. In a world so overcharged with sexuality and people constantly telling us ‘you’re broken’, ‘you’ll find the right person’, etc, etc, an allosexual will never ever know what it’s like to have this feeling of relief that an asexual experiences when they first find out that’s an option.
Asexuality isn’t a spectrum. You either want sex/feel attraction to some degree (non-ace) or you don’t (ace). You don’t need a label for not wanting to fuck strangers. In fact, most people don’t want to fuck strangers. Demisexual is the norm!
“Why is there no coherent/consistent definition of asexuality???”
“Here is my (wrong) definition of asexuality! If you disagree with it you’re a homophobe!”
And that’s why the ‘asexual community’ should never be allowed in bc it’s an excuse for cishet people who don’t like hookups to invade spaces that were specifically made to get away from cishets.
We’re already allowed in. The ace community isn’t some out-group trying to get into the LGBT community. We’re here, and we’re staying, even when whiny exclusionists like you try to make these gotcha-style posts. Asexuals aren’t cishets, no matter how much you cry about it.
“Straight” isn’t a sexual orientation, it’s a position of power.
A-Spec Identities are Not Secondary.
Invisibility is Not a Privilege.
“passing privilege” is not a real thing.
Straight-passing privilege: a myth
Bad arguments against allowing a-spec to identify as queer
Having your identity erased is not a privilege.
asexuality, like bisexuality, is deliberately misunderstood by out groups in order to exclude us.
ace/aro people don’t “only” experience attraction to the ‘opposite gender’ or any other. that’s the point. we also experience a lack of attraction, either romantically or sexually, and that lack of attraction is part of our identity.
Straight is not default.
How many straight people do you know that want to kill themselves because of their orientation?
The closet is not a privilege
On that point—you can absolutely be ace and cishet. First of all, you can be asexual, cisgender, and heteroromantic (or aromantic, cisgender, and heterosexual). That’s pretty obvious. If you can have gay ace people, you can have straight ones. But that’s not even the most important point.
Yes, you can be a ‘cishet ace’, in the contexts you described. The reason people despise being called ‘cishet ace’ is because it’s being referred to in the traditional ‘cishet’ context of ‘non-LGBT person’.  Some het aces identify as straight. Some het aces don’t identify as straight, they identify as asexual, and it’s not your place to label them against their will. There is no world in which aroaces, people who experience no attraction to anyone, are straight.
Let’s talk about the marginalised sexualities in the LGBT community. Prior to the introduction of the wholly unnecessary, toxic, and damaging split attraction model (I’ll get into that on my next point), homosexual meant homosexual and homoromantic. The sexual suffix designated the sex of people you’re attracted to. Homo meaning same, thus, same sex attraction, because that’s how Latin works. Same for bi. Same for hetero, even. Asexual is the only one that attempts to redefine this system. It should mean a- (meaning none, or lack of), therefor attraction to no sexes. It’s pretty simple. But the pure aceys saw the sexual suffix and immediately thought ‘oh that means fucking right?’ And decided they had to change shit.
Once again, citation needed. Stop trying to redefine asexuality and speak on behalf of asexuals. Asexuality IS ‘attraction to no sexes’. You’re so desperate for material that you’re pulling shit out of your ass to pin on ace people.
The split attraction model is massively harmful. It encourages internalised homophobia and compulsive heterosexuality. My gay ass for AGES was like ‘I’m grey-ace homosexual biromantic uwu’ because I thought I couldn’t just be a filthy homo, I had to be special somehow, I had to make myself available to women in some way even if it wasn’t sexual availability. The SAM causes LOTS of developing LGBT kids to struggle with denying their own identities under the guise of embracing them through microlabelling. Among teenagers it’s almost like a damn contest, like who has the most obnoxious, convoluted label. It’s stupid and damaging.
Can you provide any non-tumblr sources about the SAM being problematic? Because I have only ever seen exclusionists on this hellsite trying to claim this. Additionally, your experiences are not universal, they are not a ‘gotcha!’ for the ace community, and they are not a valid argument. I spent 5+ years believing I may be transgender, before establishing I likely was not. I do not in any way blame the transgender community for making me think that way, because it was not the fault of any trans person for providing resources for me and supporting the possibility. Healthy exploration of one’s sexuality and gender is OKAY. It isn’t a bad thing, despite what exclusionists like to claim. If you identified one way for a while, and then no longer identify that way, that is HEALTHY EXPLORATION AND GROWTH, not internalized homo-/transphobia and not the fault of any asexual.
Also, the SAM is only commonly used amongst ace and aro people anyway, since it offers a chance for us to distinguish what kind of ace we are. If you can acknowledge that ‘cishet aces’ exist who are heteroromantic and asexual, then you shouldn’t have any issue realizing that biromantic, panromantic, homoromantic, etc aces also exist and may, you know, want to acknowledge that part of themselves? I am romantically interested in men and women - should I ignore the SAM and just call myself aro/ace anyway even when that isn’t an accurate description of who I am? Am I hurting myself by giving myself a more specific label?
Another serious topic I need to discuss: Ace advocates encouraging children and teens to identify as asexual. Literal children shouldn’t be experiencing sexual attraction. I’ve seen ace people telling a TWELVE YEAR OLD that she was asexual because she didn’t feel any interest in sex. She’s a child. Of course she didn’t. I was told when I was 14 that I was ace and I, being a vulnerable child, embraced the label and carried it til I was 17.
No one ‘encourages’ children and teens to identify as asexual, ESPECIALLY not children. Once again, someone saying ‘you might be ace’ is NOT forcing that label onto someone. YOUR EXPERIENCE IS NOT UNIVERSAL. YOUR HATRED FOR THE ASEXUAL COMMUNITY IS NOT A STANDARD.
I was 14 when I discovered asexuality. I was ruthlessly mocked in school for not having a boyfriend. Many people in my class were discussing how they had lost their virginity and the sexual endeavors they took part in. Yes, at FOURTEEN. 13+ year olds are not innocent children who do not experience any form of sexual attraction or libido. It is far more damaging for teenagers growing up to NOT know there is an option to be asexual and force themselves into dangerous and harmful sexual situations to ‘fit in’. The number of asexuals I know or have spoken to who were forced to have sex, send nude pictures of themselves, or otherwise been put in a sexual situation they didn’t want to be in, simply because they didn’t know that being asexual was a valid option that existed and thought they were broken, is immense. THAT is a unifying asexual experience that an allosexual will never understand.
The reason you can be too young to identify as asexual and not too young to identify as lesbian/gay/bi, is because LGB people experience attraction of ALL sorts to the gender(s) they are attracted to, and romantic attraction develops much earlier than sexual attraction (that’s why we have puppy love and not puppy lust). Asexuality as it is defined presently is purely about sexual attraction.
I thought you said there WAS no coherent asexuality definition? Can you at least try to have a coherent argument?
By your logic, 12 year olds who feel they are transgender and go on permanent body-changing hormone blockers/HRT that they may eventually regret are more valid than a 15 year old using the label of asexuality that they may eventually move away from without any damage. That is asinine.
Honestly it’s far more creepy that way exclusionists constantly talk about minors and sexuality. You guys are more obsessed with it than any asexual who suggests or acknowledges the existence of asexuality to someone.
Lastly, asexual and aromantic people absolutely deserve a sense of community, a sense of belonging. They absolutely need a place where they can interact with people who are like them! The problem is, LGBT people and ace/aro people don’t have that much in common. At all. We don’t face the same issues either. If LGBT people could make our community amidst serious legal and social ostracisation and oppression, without the help of the internet, ace/aro people can absolutely make their own community in the cyber age that is relevant to the issues they face so that they don’t talk over the serious topics the LGBT community discusses.
You cannot in one breath say “Asexuals are valid” and in the next deny their experiences. Spend five minutes in the community and you will see testimony after testimony from aces describing their abuse, their sexual assault(s), the countless times people have called them confused, broken, wrong, mentally ill, inhuman, sinful, and how these experiences have left them feeling hopeless, alone, alienated, subhuman, depressed, and suicidal. Almost every asexual out there will tell you a story of how their orientation has caused them pain and struggle, and you can’t call them valid while at the same time calling these experiences invalid and nonexistent.
Bonus: This is a list of all the mainstream LGBTQ groups that include asexuals.
Also, we do have our own community, because every letter in the acronym has its own community and yet is still part of the acronym, and yet you fucking shits won’t stop sending us hate and bombarding us with shit meant to trigger and harass us.
I genuinely don’t expect you to read or attempt to acknowledge any of this - that’s simply the way exclusionists are. However, you are wrong. You are not helping anyone by being an ace exclusionist. You are simply a vocal minority and a bigot - nothing more, nothing less. 
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A full list of resources and information can be found HERE for further reading.
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angelsaxis · 3 years
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ig my only qn regarding the d slur reclamation is then: why would the d slur be exclusively applied to black lesbians and not black bi women as well? because bisexual women can be and are as visibly gay/gnc/etc as their lesbian counterparts. i think it's fair for you to bring up the racial element, but is it fair to assume that bisexual women are not also affected by homophobia from being visibly gay in the way lesbians are, within the black community?
follow-up to my prev ask (also anon i hope) but i guess i cant really see a real difference in terms of oppression and what structures would affect a gnc bisexual (and for purposes of being respectful to the racial aspect of the slur) black woman in a longterm committed relationship to another woman, and a lesbian who fits the same description. what real, material differences would there be to say that one, when harassed with the d slur can reclaim it for their personal empowerment, whereas the other cannot? and so, by extension, the exclusion of bisexual women from the use of the slur feels like an assumption that bisexual women's experiences couldn't possibly be similar to a lesbian's and it just...isn't the case
I can see the argument you're making on the material differences in oppression. But also know that for as long as I've been alive, and as long and as far as I've seen, dyke means lesbian and thus anyone who's calling someone that is meaning it as "you're a (bad) lesbian" if that makes sense?
(putting this under a cut because its long and rambly)
like your avg homophobe doesn't have the differential knowledge between what's a lesbian and what's a bi woman and gnc-ness that you and I have. And when I say that I mean like....the only sexualities that exist for a lot of them are straight and gay/lesbian, and then anything even slightly gender nonconforming is, by their own definition, lesbian, since they've defined lesbian as like the masculine-ness of women regardless of their actual attraction. so then that's how you get these same homophobes defining bisexuality as like "half gay half straight" when you and I know that that's not true. I hope this makes sense kajshdkfj I've had this thought for a while now but I've always had difficulty expressing how homophobes define sexuality.
and for me, I rely on what a strict definition of dyke would be specifically because I want to avoid what you mention at the end of the second ask, about the assumptions of bi women's experiences. Like I don't want to say "bi women never experience X!!" cause I know that that's not right, but I don't' want to put so much overlap between lesbian and bi wlw experiences that it erases bi women's experiences w biphobia or my and other's experiences with lesbophobia (and Ive seen moments on here where lesbians talk about something that's definitely like. a lesbian-only experience just by nature, but then OP and others get accused of being biphobic).
I think "misdirected lesbophobia" is the word I'm looking for? that and the fact that now that I think about it, it pisses me off when white wlw go about intracommunity terms and discourse with the level of entitlement that they do, because they do this with "stud" as well. and they do this with our fashion and terms. and white queers in general just like to take and redefine everything in order to force themselves into the same box as us. i remember on twitter a few months ago some pan nb white queer person was trying to say they were a dyke and at that point its like well what is the criteria for the definition of this word.
i think there's another word or piece of vocab or phrase that I'm missing. the last thing I wanna do is have us talking past each other but atm i can't think of anything.
at the risk of over explaining and further confusing anyone who's reading this, I was going about this in a more averaging/general sense in that your average bi person isn't visibly gnc, in the same way that your avg lesbian isn't visibly gnc (many of my lesbian and bi friends do not get clocked like at alllll lmao). and like i know Black bi women who are sworn off men for XYZ reasons and will only date other women. but tbh i dont think any of them would call themselves a dyke cause it has v specific connotations and understandings. and its not so much based on who its used against as it is what is means.
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This Week Within Our Colleges: Part 13
The University of San Francisco this week is scheduled to host a segregated orientation dedicated to black students. The day-long event billed as having been “designed by Black students, faculty, and staff to welcome new Black students to the USF Black Experience” will “address the specific and particular needs of Black students at USF.” The orientation is being run by Ja’Nina Garrett-Walker, who in 2014 implemented a campus-wide campaign called “Check Your Privilege,” where students were encouraged to walk around wearing t-shirts with their particular privileges, such as white, male, straight or Christian, displayed across themselves. 
It didn’t take very long for academics to jump on the racial strife in Charlottesville in order to (once again) denounce white society in general. University of North Carolina law professor Erika Wilson and University of Detroit Mercy’s Khaled Beydoun argue that “white supremacists aren’t fringe segments, they are just part of the racist white supremacist American policies such as immigration limits and requesting people to show ID to vote.” In addition, the professors point out the “white privilege” on display by the nationalists protesting the removal of a civil war statue, as they feared no repercussions by not wearing any masks which proved white society’s “presumption of innocence.” Or maybe because they actually weren’t doing anything wrong... ”Wilson and Beydoun also connected the Confederate flag to the Third Reich, pointing out that it’s a criminal offense in Germany to display anything Nazi related and the same has to be applied to Confederate flags or symbols in the United States. Hopefully, these law professors remember there’s a little thing called the First Amendment.
Stanford University is set to offer a class this fall called “White Identity Politics,” during which students will “survey the field of whiteness studies” and discuss the “possibilities of abolishing whiteness,” according to the course description. Questions to be posed throughout the semester include: “How is white identity to be understood in relation to white nationalism, white supremacy, white privilege, and whiteness?” Ernest Miranda, a spokesman for Stanford, said “abolishing whiteness’ is a concept with the belief that if white people stopped identifying politically as white, it would help end inequalities.”
A Kansas State University professor wants you to take children’s books “just as seriously” as those written for adults, as they are full of hidden racism. English professor Phillip Nel asks the, er, important questions in his book - Was the Cat in the Hat Black? which deals with the “hidden racism in children’s books.” The professor says the Cat in the Hat is a “racially complicated figure,” one influenced by blackface minstrelsy. “What’s interesting about children’s literature is racism often hides in it in ways that we don’t notice, in ways that we don’t see, in ways that we’re not even consciously aware of.” So in other words, it doesn’t exist until you create the idea of it existing? Gotchya! 
Journalism grants offered through Brandeis University are being offered to everyone as long as you are a woman and not white.They happily explain why they are denying white journalism students grants, saying “Without greater diversity in journalism, some very important stories are never pitched, some assignments never made, facts never gathered, and serious abuses of power never uncovered.” Those selected will receive up to $10,000 as part of the program. 
A University of Michigan student, whose research interests include gender and sexuality and childhood, released a research paper which suggests that preschool teachers are the reason most people identify as heterosexual. “Reproducing (and Disrupting) Heteronormativity: Gendered Sexual Socialization in Preschool Classrooms,” published in the journal Sociology of Education observed just nine preschool classrooms over the course of 10 months to come up with this wild theory. Heidi Gansen says that preschool teachers are both constructing and disrupting gendered sexuality in multiple ways. She wrote that teachers affect preschoolers’ gendered sexuality by “actively promoting or encouraging heterosexual discourses and practices and ignoring sexualized behaviors.” Gansen specifies that not once did the teachers suggest that it was appropriate for the girls to play the dad, or even have a household with two moms. Gansen finishes by complaining that even in the preschools with the most progressive teachers of all the ones she observed, “children still engaged in heteronormative practices with peers,” adding that “these findings demonstrate the importance of teachers actively working to disrupt heteronormativity, which is already ingrained in children by ages 3 to 5.” Those damn kindergarten teachers, making kids grow up to be straight. 
A workshop offered at the University of Texas at Austin teaches students bisexuality, pansexuality and “fluid sexuality” should be embraced and supported. Called “Interrupting Monosexism,” the workshop aims to interrupt “biphobia and bi-erasure” and “brainstorm actions for supporting the work of bisexual, pansexual and fluid advocates,” according to the university’s website. Other workshops hosted by the center include “What Do Thriving Queer Communities Look Like,” “Histories of & Accountability to Trans Feminisms,” “Identifying & Interrupting Everyday Intersectional Sexism” and “Intersectionality & Allyship.”
Students at Sarah Lawrence College, a posh, private liberal arts college in New York consistently ranked one of the most expensive colleges in the nation, recently called on peers and others to pay female campus activists for their “emotional labor.” Posted mostly by black students, their beg for money states “In honor of the labor that women and femmes of color do for Sarah Lawrence every month of the year, give your $$$” A discussion about white students’ lack of interest unsurprisingly quickly ensued. 
The New School in New York has published an extensive guide on “microaggressions” to warn students that such behavior can be “as damaging as ‘explicit’ aggression.” According to the guide, even “experiences that are not intentionally hostile or physically threatening can be harmful,” and thus it is critical for The New School as “a university community” to “acknowledge and work to decrease these kinds of hurtful experiences.” Microaggressions, the guide contends, can come in verbal, nonverbal, and environmental forms. What are environmental microaggressions you may be wondering? “Monuments, artwork or posters in public spaces that are predominantly white cisgender men and women,” for instance, are deemed "environmental microaggressions." Professors who fail to ask students for their preferred pronouns, or who assign too many books written by "white cisgender men," are likewise considered guilty of micro-aggressing against students.
Incoming freshmen at Vassar College will be required to complete a series of diversity-themed workshops as part of their new-student orientation. The expansive 15-day orientation also features exclusive events, such as a dinner for “first-generation and undocumented students,” plus an “LGBT Center Open House” and a “Women’s Center Open House.” An explicit goal of this year’s New Student Orientation is to help students begin “engaging and appreciating social justice,” noting that students will embark on “the journey towards self-awareness, community awareness, identities, and affirming belongingness within our own communities.” 
A feminist professor at Grinnell College is offering a course this fall on “American Whiteness” that will focus on “attacking racism by making whiteness visible.” The professor declined to provide a current syllabus, but a previous offering of the same course described America as a "racist nation" due to the pernicious effects of "whiteness." Professor Karla Erickson, a self described “feminist ethnographer,” will teach the four-credit special topics class. In the 2015 syllabus, it states “Whiteness is, among much else, a very bad idea,” quoting Kansas University Professor David Roediger. “It is quite possible to avoid criticizing white people as individuals but to criticize the idea of white people in general.” Well that makes sense. 
Southern Methodist University has finally reversed its decision to relegate a 9/11 memorial display to a secluded area of campus. The school has also revised the policy that had been cited to justify rejecting the original request to host the 9/11 Never Forget event on the campus. The university had initially denied the memorial at the usual location on campus in accordance with a policy guaranteeing “the right of all members of the community to avoid messages that are harmful or harassing." In a statement published last week, SMU apologized and reiterated the importance of honoring the victims of the 2001 attack.
A Clemson University professor is comparing President Trump’s ban on transgender soldiers to “Nazi eugenic propaganda,” calling it “ableism deployed to incarcerate or kill disabled people.”
A Vanderbilt University professor complained in an academic journal article that mathematics is too “white and heteronormatively masculinized.” Citing the “masculinization of mathematics,” Luis Leyva then suggests that the apparent “gender gap” in mathematical ability is socially constructed (as opposed to arising from inherently different cognitive abilities) and therefore women are being kept out of mathematics in order to keep the field “masculinized.” 
A University of Iowa professor wrote an academic journal article explaining how she endeavors to "dismantle whiteness in my curriculum, assignments, and pedagogy." Jodi Linley argues that unless her "mostly white" students are made to confront their privilege, they will be "complicit" in perpetuating white supremacy. Linley says her commitment to designing classes that fight white privilege began as soon as she became a professor in 2014, at which point she resolved to “develop courses that both unveiled and rejected” the notion that “neutrality and objectivity are realistic and attainable.” She offers up five strategies other professors can use to deconstruct white privilege in their own classes, such as making sure white students know that teachers will be interrupting oppression that occurs in classroom settings and segregating students by race. “For white students, talking about race with an all-white group of peers facilitates their realisation that they are raced beings, thus revealing their own white ignorance.”
New York University is looking to hire a tenure-track professor to teach subjects such as “racial justice activism” and “intersectional queer and transgender politics.” Despite declaring its commitment to "equal treatment and opportunity" for all applicants, NYU also says it intends to “substantially increase the proportion” of faculty from “historically underrepresented groups." The university has a lengthy wish-list of subject areas that it would like the new professor to address, most of which relate to racial and/or gender-based identity politics. NYU is “particularly interested” in topics like “postcolonial and decolonial studies, intersectional queer and transgender politics of race, critical race theory,” and “Africa and African diaspora media studies.” In addition, the school would like the new professor to be familiar with issues of “digital media and racial justice activism,” and “class and racial disparities in media access and adoption.”
The University of Georgia has made Professor Richard Watson remove a “stress reduction policy” from two of his course syllabi after facing national backlash for the practice. He had adopted a policy that would allow students who felt “unduly stressed by a grade for any assessable material or the overall course” to “email the instructor indicating what grade you think is appropriate, and it will be so changed” with “no explanation” required. Watson did concede this policy might hinder the development of students, although it’s become clear that’s no longer important in higher education today. 
Less than one month into the job, North Carolina State University's new Director of Multicultural Student Affairs has big plans, including segregating student housing by skin color, providing a new housing option exclusively for 'women of color.' Nashia Whittenburg describes it as a refuge for female minority students to "deal with some of the microaggressions you might have had to deal with throughout your entire day." “The point and purpose is if you are student of color and you may not see anybody who looks like you in class, here is your opportunity to get some support and to deal with some of the microaggressions.” 
During a recent six-day conference in Portland, Oregon, archivists attended a presentation on “Identifying and Dismantling White Supremacy in Archives.” The panel called on archivists to “decenter whiteness by valuing materials produced by people of color and communities of color,” and “explicitly prioritize materials produced by people of color and communities of color.” At another panel promoting the Black Lives Matter movement, one presenter was quoted as saying, “If white activists don’t use their privilege to give the platform over to POC, their activism is exploitive.”
A private investigator hired by Regis University has determined that a conservative student did not violate any laws or university policies by holding a “Social Justice Bake Sale.” Regis had accused the student of violating “university policy and federal law” and even blocked him from their twitter account after holding a satire bake sale, selling cookies at different prices depending where the group sit on the oppressed rankings. The private investigator concedes that “there are insufficient facts to find that his conduct violated specific Regis policy or law,” though he notes that “numerous students were justifiably offended by this ‘bake sale.’” 
A University of California, Davis microbiology professor is claiming a victory over the patriarchy after his complaints led organizers of an academic conference to invite more female speakers. Professor Jonathan Eisen noticed most of the invited speakers were white males, so he announced that he would contact each of them directly to ask that they withdraw. He bragged about going to great lengths checking the speakers’ race, genders and pronouns to ensure that his assumptions were correct. Eisen went on to urge attendees, sponsors and presenters to boycott the meeting, billing the event as “The White Men’s Microbiome Congress.” Eisen succeeded in generating enough pressure to elicit an apology along with assurances that future events would “represent the diversity of the scientific fields.” 
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gettin-bi-bi-bi · 7 years
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Hi, I'm bisexual but I still don't feel like I really know what biphobia really is. Obviously, or maybe not so obviously, I've experienced discrimination. But I still feel like I don't know the difference between biphobia and homophobia. Could you maybe explain it to me?
Hello,
so, homophobia is the hatred against gay and lesbian people which presents itself in many different (often institutionalised) ways. Biphobia is the hatred against bisexual people which has a lot of unique and bi-specific aspects. It can come from straight people, gay people and bi people themselves (we call that “internalised biphobia”).
Those are the main things that come to my mind right now:
not believing that bisexuality is “real” and therefore invalidating people who identify as bi
for example saying they are actually gay but too shy/scared/cowardly to “fully” come out of the closet
or saying that they are actually straight and just “doing it for attention”
the false believe that you can only truly be attracted to one (and only one!) gender (”I can’t imagine being attracted to more than one gender, so how could anyone else?”)
thinking it’s “just a phase” (often said about and towards bi kids/teenagers) and that they will eventually “pick a side”
stereotyping bi people as “greedy” or “confused”
“they just need to make their mind up”
“they have threesomes all the time”
“don’t date a bi person, they are all unfaithfull cheaters.”
“they can only be happy if they date a man and a woman at the same time.”
thinking of bisexuality as half gay/half straight instead of it’s own unique sexual identity
“how many percent gay are you?”
“are you like 50/50?”
“what gender do you prefer?”
repeatedly speaking over bi people when they want to define bisexuality for themselves
“bi means ‘two’ so you can only be attracted to men and women”, but the bi community keeps saying that the term has evolved to mean “two or more genders” which means it is inclusive of non-binary people as well (and you can identify as bi if you are for example only attracted to women and nb-people but not to men)
bisexual erasure
for example assuming someone in a same-gender relationship has to be gay and in a different-gender relationship has to be straight (this ask was a perfect example)
in media when TV shows refuse to say the word “bisexual” about a character who clearly showed interest in or was intimate with people of more than one gender.
using “gay” as an umbrella term to mean LGBTQIA+ (”gay rights”, “gay marriage”, “gay pride”) which is not just bisexual erasure but actually erases every other letter in the acronym except the G
labelling openly bi celebrities as “allies” (e.g. Lady Gaga, Drew Barrymore, Billy Joe Armstrong)
mislabelling bi celebrities as gay - ever wondered why Freddie Mercury is known to be “the most famous gay celebrity”? Well, he identified as bisexual.
also saying that biphobia is just “misdirected homophobia” denies the fact that there are a lot of bi-specific issues.
bi people are less likely to be out to their intimate partner, their families/friends, their doctors
they are more likely to suffer from mental health issues and experience intimate partner violence
What all of this is showing us is that bi people have specific needs and face unique problems that won’t vanish just by fighting homophobia. There is no trickle down effect for bi people because as said above: we are not half gay so resources for gay people don’t apply to us. We need our own resources and representation because biphobia is not the same as homophobia.
Maddie
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snarktheater · 7 years
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Could you not say qu**r so often, please? Or at least tag it? Alternatives could be SGA or trans (depending on which part you're referring to) or LGBT? It's uncomfortable to quite a lot of people if it's used as an umbrella term too. Thank you
While I’m not interested in delving into that discourse on this blog…well, I guess it was gonna happen sooner or later. 
So just to be clear, before I say anything else, let me preface this post by saying that I’m going to state my position on this, but I will not admit any further discussion on the subject on this blog. You’re free to talk to me @talysalankil​ if you feel like having further discussion, but this blog isn’t the right place to do so. Also I’m going to use links from my personal blog because it’s just easier. But frankly if you want better sources on the subject, they’re out there.
Warning for massive wall of text. I tried to structure it, but there you go.
“Queer” has been reclaimed for decades. Many people who are much more knowledgeable than myself have pointed out that it’s been used at least as long as LGBT as an umbrella term (and that it was reclaimed before SGA was even invented), and it has the benefit of being inclusionary. The fact that is a historical slur cannot and should not be ignored, but the thing is, there is literally not a single word in use to refer to people who aren’t cis and straight that hasn’t been used as a slur at one point or another. Fuck’s sake, people still use “gay” today as a derogatory term, even when discussing things that have nothing to do with sexuality.
Meanwhile, SGA is an acronym that takes its root from conversion therapy (yes, really; SGA discoursers have claimed otherwise but survivors of conversion therapy attest to it), so I’m pretty sure it is equally trigger or even more triggering that queer to people.
SGL (same-gender loving) is a less historically charged acronym that I feel less strongly about for that reason, but it also comes from AAVE and I feel like there’s an element of cultural appropriation for me to use it as a white person, just like I wouldn’t use two-spirits because it’s a native american term. 
But that’s not my only issue with either acronym. See, the issue I have with SGA/SGL are multiple, and I’m going to put a cut here because this is getting out of hand:
It is an inherently binarist concept. Meaning, it either excludes nonbinary people entirely, since for many of them, the concept of “same gender” is compeltely irrelevant; or it partially erases nonbinary identities by grouping them together as “male-aligned” or “female-aligned”, i.e. implying they’re “basically a man” or “basically a woman”. Which, even if that is something some nonbinary people do identify with, is not something anyone should be entitled to force on people. Plus, you know, I guess people who aren’t on the male/female spectrum or agender people don’t exist at all and/or don’t belong in the community according to those people?
Bisexuality and polysexuality does not necessarily include “SGA”, even for cis male/female people. Implying that a bi person is straight if they experience attraction for the opposite binary gender and for nonbinary people is, once again, erasing those nonbinary people’s identities.
Because of these two points, the concept of SGA is inherently transphobic, since you cannot use it without assuming people’s gender.
This also adds a shade of exclusion of intersex people, whose status with regards to the community has always been complicated. Some intersex people don’t want to be included, some do. But “SGA and trans” doesn’t leave room for those who do, but don’t identify as trans (and those people exist), to join the community, even though they deserve a place.
Bisexual and polysexual people are constantly erased, and reducing their right to belong to the community as their attraction to their own gender is harmful rhetoric even for those who do experience that attraction (such as myself). It is the kind of thinking that leads to saying they’re “basically gay and using bisexual to ease into it” or that they’re “basically straight and just experimenting/lying” (the latter is particularly directed at women, especially if they are in a committed relationship with men, while the former is particularly directed at men, including myself). I am not “basically gay” and I don’t want to use an umbrella term for my community that reduces me to that in all but name.
More biphobia: it assumes that there’s such a thing as “straight passing privilege” and that anyone who’s not presently dating someone from their own gender is benefitting from that. That line of thought literally started off as biphobic rhetoric. Oh, and, you know, “straight passing privilege” is just being in the closet. Kind of like how TERFS say that trans women experience male privilege instead of being trans women in the closet. Apparently the closet only applies to you if you’re gay.
The unifying experience of the community is not homophobia. I mean, the fact that you have to use “SGA and/or trans” should be proof enough that you’re already adding trans people as an afterthought. But beyond that, biphobia is a different beast from homophobia, as is transphobia, as is aphobia. They stem from a similar form of societal bigotry, and there is intersection (a bi person dating someone of the same gender will probably experience similar issues as a gay couple, corrective rape which lesbians and ace people are both targeted by), but there are also differences of specificities (I already mentioned bi erasure; ace/aro people are targeted for being “mentally ill”; and I don’t think I have to explain the specificities of transphobia in a world where “bathroom bills” is a phrase that exists)
As others have pointed out, the phrasing makes it sound like the community started with “SGA people” and then was gracious enough to include trans people, which is historical revisionism.
The queer label offers grey areas for people who need time to figure out their own identity or just cannot place their identity on the existing, mainstream labels. SGA does the exact opposite of that by forcing people to place themselves on one side or another of a pretty ill-defined line.
Even if it weren’t for any of these points, the term has now been claimed as the rallying cry for exclusionary LGBT+ people, particularly to target ace and aro people. And by that I mean it started of as that, but let’s pretend it was already around and was claimed by those people.  Well, I will not stand for that, just like I’m not standing by TERF rhetorics. Interestingly enough, “queer is a slur” only emerged as discourse at the same time (and usually from the same people) who tried to enforce that exclusion.
LGBT+ aphobes have time and again shown that they were recycling biphobic and transphobic rhetorics (as I’ve shown myself earlier in this list), and in many cases, have proven to be the same people who used biphobic and transphobic rhetorics a few years ago, and that they haven’t given up on those views, merely grown more careful about where and how they advertise them.
If you want more I suggest you run a search for “SGA” on my main blog. It’ll be a lot of the same idea as what I just summarized here, just with more details.
So…yeah. If anything, I do not want to be included under the SGA umbrella, even though I am a bisexual man who so far has only ever dated other men. Well, one other man, but my dating history is kind of irrelevant anyway. Point is, I’m not using that umbrella. And I have every right to reclaim queer since…well, I just said I’m a bi man, which I’m pretty sure that should be enough.
I don’t have as many issues with LGBT, but at the same time, the acronym has also been pushed as “it’s LGBT and only LGBT therefore anyone who’s not lesbian, gay, bi or trans doesn’t belong” by the same people, enough that it feels sour in my mouth. I still use it liberally, although I try to use LGBT+ or other variations, such as LGBTQ, LGBTQIA, LGBTQIA+, LGBTQIAP+, etc, but ultimately, queer is just easier and has the benefit of being more inclusive than any of the above.
I understand that it’ll make some people uncomfortable, but until someone comes up with a word that makes no one uncomfortable (which, again, does not exist yet—the closest we got was MOGAI, but that one was targeted by a smear campaign from, you guessed it, exclusionists who didn’t like that it included ace/aro or trans people and now people can’t use it without starting a similar debate as this), I’m gonna have to settle for one, and I’ll pick the one that makes me the most comfortable, because I am a member of this community too and I have the right to do that. Just like you have the right to use SGA and it’ll make me uncomfortable, but I won’t come to your blog sending you an anon message asking you to stop, because I understand that no umbrella exists that satisfies everyone at the moment, and I have more pressing issues to deal with.
If that’s an issue, feel free to unfollow or whatever else it is you feel like doing. But I will not budge on this.
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