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mc-critical · 3 years

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Would you agree that it’s almost impossible for motherhood in the harem to not be toxic to some degree? Especially so in mother-daughter relationships, but still prominent in mother-son relationships as well. (Also I’m not making this observation about harem motherhood to say that harem fatherhood is a lesser evil or non-toxic. If anything it’s even more toxic and damaging..especially given that it was such a norm for fathers to kill their children and feel completely justified in doing so, but that’s a discussion for another day.) I’ve observed this in almost every mother in the series. With Hafsa and her daughters (remember Sah at Mihrimah’s wedding talking about how her mother forced her and all of her sister’s to marry, and based on what it sounded like, at an extremely young age against their will), with Halime and Dilruba (Halime was geniunely okay with the possibility that Dilruba might die after Kösem kidnapped her if it meant sparing Mustafa’s life), with Hürrem and Mihrimah (forcing her to marry Rüstem at 17 years of age and using manipulation for years to keep her daughter in an unhappy marriage). The list goes on and these are just a few examples but I can’t not see a pattern here. Even with their princes there was the constant forcing a love-interest for upon their sons (Mahidevran I believe forced Fatma on Mustafa if I remember correctly? My memory is spotty there so tell me if I’m wrong) or eliminating their sons love interests in often brutal ways if it was self-serving (Hürrem killing Beyezeid’s harem to cover up Huricihan’s murder.) I almost believe there is no way for motherhood/fatherhood to be completely healthy in an enviornment like the harem especially given the examples.

Yes, I definetly agree with you on this one. It's truly almost impossible for mothers to not be toxic in some way in the environment that is the harem, because so much of it is dedicated on perpetuating such toxic behavior in both the dynastic and non-dynastic sultanas.

The first and foremost thing a woman who has just entered in the harem has to think about is how to survive, how to lend in a more comfortable position. And the first step in doing that is going to a halvet and bearing a child from the sultan. But that's not so easy, since she both has to make a solid impression and fight so many rivals on the way. The harem encourages competitiveness, putting people against each other for a single goal and the ambition to climb yourself as high in the hierarchy as you can, all of which leads to constant stress, paranoia and opportunism. As we see with so many characters and their arcs throughout the series, the longer you get to be in the harem, the longer you adapt to the system (which is a central theme of the franchise for a reason), the longer you endure, you just get used to it and at many aspects, absorb it. It's only natural at this point this would transfer to the children of the mothers, as well, because they are not only children, they are, as sad and unfortunate as it is, the keys to both full survival and success in the harem that can turn into tools for their mothers to mould when it's necessary. Because these mothers perfectly acknowledge that they aren't alone. When you bear a child, you do get to have a sense of comfort, but that comfort is only temporary and by the realization that there are other mothers with other children that will turn into deadly rivals for your own child, it slowly transitions into the next phase of the game of life in the harem: the fight for the throne where you have to fight harder than ever, actually. The most difficult part of it all seems to be just beginning and you have to use your best virtues as a player in the harem to win the war the system put you into. And a healthy relationship with your children, as we know it, sadly isn't a part of that.

There is this one exact aspect of the toxicity of some mothers you referred to here that comes more due to the exertion of the "mother knows best" attitude. No matter how many allies and supporters their one prince, in example, has, the mother is the one who would always vouch for him and would never turn his back on him, if only they're their ticket to more piece or that they've truly come to love him as they should. The system demands of the mother to raise the prince the best way she knows how and gain as much political advantage as she can, that including all these infamous political marriages. The mothers have to at least give their children sound advice of all things and that's what they also become used to, more or less. And them having these obligations, in a way, to their children, along with having gone through what they have in the harem, all make them believe that their children don't know better. They're the ones that have gone through this and have to stay strong and act pragmatically, not these children that have yet to find out what is going on. And even when they grow older, there is this decent possibility they won't realize the stakes of the game. MCK Bayezid is the most notorious example, with him living a fairly comfy life under Kösem's care when it comes to this that only vanished after Gülbahar came to the castle and he became the favourized heir of the throne and yet, Gülbahar still had to constantly remind him for so long that "he's the center of the fire" and that "they're in a war". MC Mustafa often refused to make pragmatic decisions that would've basically spared his life. Hürrem literally tells Cihangir that he shouldn't meddle in these things, because she knows better and thinks he can't tell the difference from right and wrong. So the mothers usually consider themselves forced to make the hard decisions instead of them, trying to keep all aspects of their life in check. That's why they meddle so much in their love lives, as well, along with their personal opinion and bias for the women they chose to be with, of course. Mahidevran and Valide wanted to marry Mustafa and Aybige for both reasons - Mahidevran both doesn't like Efsun and found the upper hand in a marriage with Aybige. {though it is important to note that Mahidevran specifically monitors Mustafa's love life because of the fear of the possibility of the next Hürrem, too, whose arrival and tradition breaking in the castle are still very deep wounds for her. She got over that eventually with Rumeysa and Mihrunnisa, but it was there and it was really showing at first. She sent Fatma to a halvet in E50 with the intent to distract Efsun away from Mustafa, but when Efsun was already dead, Mahidevran was strictly against all her attempts to sabotage the other concubine Mahidevran was sending and win Mustafa over and even decided to not send her to Manisa exclusively for that, disguising it with that she currently needs her in the castle.} I'm taking about the princes, but it obviously applies to the daughters, too, of course, especially Mihrimah, who also had a long way to go until she figured out what is the game all about and even then that only worked when it was connected to the protection of the family and Hürrem knew it. And while the daughters are perceived to have "less value" than the princes, bound to become sultans, as seen with Halime's relationship with Dilruba, they still play a significant part in the game and help the princes gain yet more security and the mothers influence the matters much more through the vezier or pasha the daughter has married. And it's as important to find the proper candidate, which is why Hürrem was against Taşlicalı and she broke her promise to marry Mihrimah to the person she loved. Leave it to the mothers to make the opportunistic choices that their grown-up children sometimes won't be able to make.

The fight for survival also triggers severe amount of protectiveness that plays a part in the toxicity of the mothers. They always have to keep an eye on the children, because there is the possibility of someone trying to attack them or someone else to try taking advantage of them, which is why, as well as attempting to dictate their actions, they always want to track every single move the sons and/or daughters make in order to dictate their actions. There is this prominent fear of backstabbing, betrayal and murder attempts that just can't let these mothers think or act otherwise.

It's tricky because even though some of them get so engrained into this it becomes a personality trait of theirs or apply personal gained bias when they embrace their toxic motherhood traits, they try their best to maintain cordial relations with their children and show them their genuine affection. There are so many profound mother-son and mother-daughter relationships that are either incredibly interesting on their own, either have so many human interactions with their sons or daughters, in spite of the circumstances. And in the case of, say, Halime and Mustafa, but almost all these relationships qualify, the huge amount of such interactions creates a very fine line between the tender affection and the toxicity the system causes them to show, which is why maybe it could be missed to an extent, but the narrative still does its best to make it obvious enough. It's so sad and chilling that the life in the harem just won't let healthy dynamics in general and if one starts to think for a second that the children may be an exception because they are the closest link to their mothers and the ones most likely to reveal their humanity, it soon becomes clear that this is far from the case. The system leaves nothing and no one untouched.

It becomes even tougher when, knowing the law of Fatih, a mother has to choose between her princes in the inevitable scenario where only they are the only heirs of the throne left. There every possible ounce of a healthy dynamic leaves much faster than usual, because the mothers have to realize sooner or later that they do actually have to make a choice. They love them all with the bottom of their hearts, but there is only one more fit to rule. And there is never a guarantee that the "chosen" or the only surviving prince will never dare to think about executing the law. That choice seems ludicrous, because how would a mother choose from her own children? This conflict is icredibly exploited through Hürrem in S04. She undergoes a subtle arc that has her deal with this precise moral dilemma. It tore apart her belief that the fight would be over after Mustafa's death and all her flaws in terms of Selim and Bayezid's parenting came back to her, with her seeing the problems and inevitable power struggle between them in their fullest power. She couldn't bring things back now, for their conflict had already gone too far. So she goes through fairly lengthy denial of the choice at hand and tries her best to search for a peaceful solution, for both of them to be able to "coexist", but she eventually realizes that this wouldn't be possible and when she did, it was way. too. late. And Hürrem had her preferred candidate for the throne regardless, so when you face that struggle as a mother, it's impossible for your relationship with your children to not be toxic in a way. And I know many mothers out there would relate with Hürrem's internal conflict when it came to this, because no matter how much they've adapted to the circumstances, these are their children, aren't they? The children of their own blood they cared for their whole life up to that moment! How damaging would that be for a mother? Kösem as a mother faced an even more extreme display of this, because she had too many princes and a son on the throne; she not only had to choose between them, she had to eliminate them as a desparate, but apparently necessary measure - she had presumably won, but then she came to realize that her son couldn't rule the country and didn't listen to any advice. As I've said before, her whole S02 arc was her coming to terms that she had to eventually eliminate him, for he stands against not only the country, but her as a representation of said country. She infamously sealed the pact to kill Ibrahim also because he apparently wasn't fit for the country. That tore her apart, but she did it anyway. In her time period, I dare say it's even harder to not have some kind of toxicity present in the mother's relationship with her children, because of its more dynamic rhythm and the ways of ruling in it where women, which are naturally mothers, too, are at the peak of their power and are way more likely to do stuff for its sake alone than in Süleiman's time. So we could argue that it's not only impossible for mothers not to show toxicity in the harem, but that toxicity increased as the franchise progressed, cementing the core contrast between MC and MCK: power for the sake of personal motives vs. power for the sake of power. That obviously has to impact the mothers, for they truly are the main players in this whole game.

I can't lie that it's more probable for the dynastic sultanas (that are not daughters of the sultan) to not show toxicity to their children, since they don't really have that survival fight in front of them and they have to build their families, live in a castle with them and that's about it, but then another problem arises - they have grown in the harem, they have grown with this toxicity. They have been taught this their whole life. They and their children can't exactly have healthy relationships, because the established hierarchy in the harem and the positions of these mothers are stopping them. They are gonna live with the mindset that the son is more important than the daughter (we have Hatice wanting her first baby to be a son) and even if the child is a girl, they would be constantly reminded of their social standing, that they have the blood of the dynasty. Yes, this is way less toxic, but could still bring problems and can't be healthy in a literal sense. Not to mention that ambition within a member of the dynasty isn't a concept to be discarded - Şah Sultan is the perfect example of this, with her wanting to marry Esmahan to Bali Bey, not just because her daughter is okay with this, but also because that marriage would be useful to her goals. Esmahan being the one who proposed it in the first place (as far as I recall?) and her wanting to put it in motion a lot, was only sheer luck.

Motherhoods in the harem are indeed fascinating, but toxic in one way or another. There is a clear pattern in all these relationships that is bound to show itself at some point and the fight for survival may cause mothers to put their own needs above the ones of their children's. And that kept going on and on for the longest time. There's so much humanity in these relationships, but a considerable amount of toxicity, too, that I blame mostly on this gross system.

[Fatherhood in the harem is truly even more toxic, destructive and even dangerous in many areas. Most fathers we've seen in the franchise are sultans and the sultans are notorious with their relenting paranoia of betrayal that manages to go over their own heads. I can go on and on how the same paranoia screwed every single sign of a healthy dynamic between a father and a son especially, rendering it totally nonexistent in a while, but that's truly a post for another day.]

#magnificent century #magnificent century kösem #magnificent century kosem #magnificent century: kösem #ask #stuffandthangs

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