#the umbrella academy meta

[mykinkyyandere]

Did Five and Vanya had romantic feelings for each other?

AO3

⚠️ Just a quick warning. I'm new in this fandom and Viktor Hargreeves is confirmed. But all the discussions were already made under the name Vanya and I couldn't find a new one. So I will go with that name and use she/her pronouns but only because I will talk about a pretty past relationship when he was still Vanya. Like, imagine as if I'm writing this in 2019. At least, I feel like this and I feel like I'm too late. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, I hope I'm doing the right thing. If not, I deeply apologise.

— – -

I'm not going to talk about moral appropriateness here. I'm a dark fiction writer, so it doesn't matter whether I approve of the step-sibling relationship or not. Dark contents are different in real life and fiction. I don't support what I write. I said this many times. This is a problem that almost all dark creators experience. We are often accused of supporting toxic behaviors and relationships, but this is extremely wrong. Before accusing someone, we should do research and educate ourselves about it. In real life, I never support a step-sibling relationship and I strongly defend that it seriously damages family trust and privacy. There is no need to talk about the fictional aspect of it, I believe that everyone is free in fiction and we have no right to shame people. Real life and fictional life are different, we need to comprehend the difference. Here, I will talk about my own views on whether such an attraction actually exists.

— – -

I don't think that Five and Vanya's relationship when they were kids was romantic. Aidan is free to share his theory and opinion, but as he said, it was HIS theory. I understand his interpretation of the story and characters. You can find it on this site. A handful of children who were abused during their childhood years and only had the chance to fulfill emotional support from themselves. In a traumatic life like this, the possibility of developing romantic feelings for their step-siblings is realistic.

Almost every person I saw reacted like, "This is disgusting, it can't be!". But we musn't judge, we must be objective. I'm not one to approve of this kind of relationship in real life either, but the traumatic lives of the characters in the series strengthen the possibility of this theory, and I think it's inevitable. Although we don't support it, it's realistic and possible for children trying to survive their traumatic life to develop romantic feelings, as Aidan says. Now I'm going to talk about whether it really exists from my point of view.

Let's start with something I see as a fact. You don't have to accept as canon a theory explained by the actor who plays the character, which goes for any movie or TV show. For me, to be canon, that information has to be confirmed by the creator. Like, the author, etc. For example, an actor said that his character might secretly in love with his teacher. Until this is confirmed, it's only as much a theory as yours or mine. Everyone has the right to believe what they want and make it canon whatever theory they want. The actor sharing his own opinion can make it canon for you, especially if you're a supporter of that idea. You would be so happy and excited to hear that your favorite character's actor shares the same opinion with you, it's canon now! But this romantic relationship has never been confirmed and will likely never be canon. So you're free to believe there was a romantic relationship or there wasn't a romantic relationship.

Often (depending on what kind of person you are) you get your shit together towards someone who seems quiet/fragile/shy. You don't want to offend them, right? For example, I'm a distant person who don't use bad language. People's behavior changes drastically when they're with me. They know I'm not that kinda person they can talk with (If you're a jerk, it's different ofc. That's why I said depending on what kind of person you are.). This isn't just for me, I just gave an example over myself. Whoever you are with, the attitude and distance you take or give probably changes according their/your personality/age. This is no exception for Five and the others.

As far as I understand, Vanya isn't a sarcastic and argumentative character. She's someone who is trying to cope with her trauma by shutting herself down. There was no reason for Five to be mean or angry with her. I don't find the way he "becomes softer" or "let his guard down" with her as romantic. Five is harsh with people who try to argue or challenge him or who have that potential and who don't listen. But Vanya's understanding and listening side gives him no reason for this harshness. Sadly, Vanya's personality alone isn't enough in someone's behavior towards Vanya. How understanding or caring the other person is, is very important. The siblings' own character builds, and their resentment towards Vanya because of her book, greatly influences the way they talk to her and their behavior towards her. Because they went through something, there is something between them. This breaks the effectiveness of Vanya's character build and others may not hesitate to offend her.

But Five met Vanya after decades. He learned everything that happened in between from the book she wrote. He didn't personally experience the anger of the other siblings had towards Vanya because of that book. Probably he would be angry too if he didn't get lost and read that book when he was still with them. When talking to Vanya, remember that he was 58 years old. She wrote that book, yes. But why would he show an angry approach? Everyone's mad at her anyway, the past is past, what happened happened. He read the book all alone, probably remembering them with a kind of longing. I think he didn't need to be angry while reading the book, because he read it with sadness without his family. He missed them. SO, no, I don't think it's romantic that Five compliments her book in his interaction with Vanya. He may even be glad that she wrote the book. It became a resource that he could fill a little bit of his lost years. I mean, taking the book with him everywhere and using it as a notebook isn't because he used to have romantic feelings for Vanya, but because it's a source of his family.

And after he read how bad Vanya felt as a kid, I think he felt the sympathy of a 60-year-old man when he talked with her and his approach to her softened inevitably because of this. After all, Vanya wrote the book, reflecting how she sees others while expressing her own feelings. We know that Five is controlling, ruthless, and rational, but he's a human after all, and he must have been pretty close to Vanya. Vanya described him in her book as her sole confidant. I think for the sake of the old days and probably being the only sibling he could talk to without being annoyed, he controlled his behavior when he was with her.

Vanya told Pogo how she left the lights on and made him a sandwich in case he would come back, but I think it was purely because of her grief over the loss of her maybe the closest sibling. Making sandwiches and leaving the lights on, telling Pogo how much she miss him, doesn't mean she had feelings for him romantically. And she said those things so casually, anyway. I didn't see and get any romantic vibe. Vanya was like that because of her kind personality and her closeness with Five that the other siblings don't have and only she has. We can tell from Vanya's speech, behavior and book that they had close relationships, but I think it's wrong to interpret them as romantic.

If your own brother disappeared, you'd leave the light on for years and make sandwiches for him. Being adoptive doesn't change that. It's normal for 7 step-siblings to act different and not feel equally close to each other. One sibling doesn't care that much, but the other one thinks about him all the time. It's not an excuse to romanticise their closeness. I think it's disrespectful to make a romantic sense of any intimacy just because they're step-siblings.

As I said, it is important to remember that Five is a man nearly 60. He's being soft with her, probably for the sake of the closeness they've shared as siblings in the past. It would be insufficient to rely solely on Vanya's confessions to Pogo and her book to interpret what's between them romantically. I see no "I used to like him" effect in Vanya's behavior. I don't think it's a romantic proof for Vanya to take care of Five's wound. Of course she would be concerned about Five's wound and would like to take care of it. Of course she would say "I don't want to lose you again". Five would of course go to her to talk, of course he would treat her more kindly and perhaps a little more expressively. And all this for the reasons I mentioned above. I don't think there is any romance between them.

I talked about the series. I didn't read the comics yet. But according to my research, there is no romantic relationship in the comics either. Actually, they say they don't really interact at all, she's close to Diego instead.

⚠️ READ HERE

#five #five hargreeves #number five #vanya #vanya hargreeves #hargreeves #viktor hargreeves #the umbrella academy #umbrella academy #five and vanya #number seven #five x vanya #tua #tua meta #the umbrella academy meta #five hargreeves meta #vanya hargreeves meta

[11queensupreme11]

you hate the way they wrote allison too huh 😭 same, cuz wtf did they do to my girl

Allison was terrible in this season, but I don’t hate the way the creators handled her??? Like, I can see where they were trying to go. To me, it seemed like they were making her regress. 

Allison’s definitely used to getting what she wants thanks to her powers. We don’t know much of how Reginald handled her throughout her childhood, but I highly doubt he gave her a lesson on ethics and the importance of ‘not using your powers for selfish reasons’. So yeah, mind control powers + lack of ethics = bad. 

Allison always used her powers to get what she wanted. It’s canon: she rumored her way into a career as a popular actress, she used her power on her daughter (which led to Patrick divorcing her and her losing custody of Claire, and it’s implied that she used her powers to initiate a relationship with Patrick ("I heard a rumor that you love me”). She only started becoming a better person in season 1 because she got a wake-up call after losing custody of Claire. She gets better in season 2, and then season 3 is where she goes downhill. 

She regresses. She goes back to her old self. 

I think the reason why she’s taking the loss of Claire so badly even though all her other sibs were traumatized by their own losses is because Allison is used to getting what she wants. She’s been that way her whole life and even though she tried to be better (season 1 & 2), the loss of Claire is too much for her to handle so she regresses back. She can’t have Claire so she lashes out at everyone, she can’t have Luther so she forces him to bend to her will (it’s no different than what she did to Patrick except what she did with Patrick was way worse since it lasted longer and she even got a whole KID out of it), she can’t have what she wants so she hurts Viktor and kills Harlan. 

I’ve seen a lot of ppl be like “you only hate her because she’s black and/or a woman” and “you guys didn’t hate Luther this much for what he did” and “Viktor killed billions of people but everyone’s so quick to defend him and hate on Allison” and I’m just like... no 💀

I’m pretty sure people would hate Allison even more if she were a white dude (ESPECIALLY because of the S/A scene). 

Luther was very hated by the fandom for locking Viktor up and Viktor def did a bad thing by causing the apocalypse, but the reason people are no longer hating on them was because they at least showed remorse for what they did and changed. Allison (for now) did not. 

The best thing she did was kill Reggie to save her sibs at the very end but she still pressed the button to reset the world so she could get what she wanted (which was a life with Claire & Raymond). She constantly manipulated Viktor with her whole “trust me, I’m doing this for all of us” spiel yet she’s the only one who gets her loved ones back and keep her powers (because her’s weren’t sucked up by the machine thingy). 

She reset the world to a reality where only she would benefit from it while the rest of her siblings remain lost, miserable, traumatized, and now, powerless. Kinda sucky of her ngl 🙁

However! She’ll most likely get her redemption arc in season 4 though so I can’t wait to see how it’s handled! 😃

(Also, I can’t wait to see how the creators make Klaus even crazier than he already is! They had their fun with Luther (season 1 with his moon trauma), Diego (season 2 with his JFK obsession), and now with Allison in this season with her desperation to get Claire and Ray back. This means... it’s Klaus’ turn next 😈)

#👸🏻| asks #👸🏻| rambles #the umbrella academy #the sparrow academy #allison hargreeves #viktor hargreeves #five hargreeves #ben hargreeves #diego hargreeves #luther hargreeves #klaus hargreeves #the umbrella academy meta #is this meta?? idk #but whatever

[clarkgriffon]

Dark!Allison: A Thought Exploration

Okay, so to premise this, as I said in a separate post. I don’t like dark!character plotlines. Typically, it’s a way for writers to make characters do out-of-character actions without justifying those actions instead just sort of saying that this is nebulously their “dark period” or “downward spiral.”

From a fandom perspective, I particularly loathe dark!character plot lines for women because they get much worse reactions than when men get them, typically. When a female character gets a dark!plotline, there’s usually an immediate outcry of how awful and horrible and irredeemable they are. With male characters, I would say that this is outcry isn’t nonexist, but is rivaled heavily by a sort of “uwu the boy is sad! he’s just Going Through It!” attitude that female characters don’t tend to get. But fandom’s not actually what I want to talk about in this post. I want this post to be a breakdown of my thoughts about Dark!Allison within the context of the show- why it could work and why it ultimately doesn’t.

The Good:

Dark!Allison isn’t without merit. For starters, though these are more extraneous factors than the actual writing, let’s talk about the costume design and acting. Allison looked fabulous this season. Easily turned the best look of the season. The only character who can usually rival her looks, Klaus, stayed in his 60s vibe and didn’t really change. Allison’s haircut was frickin’ adorable, let’s all admit. And I don’t even have words to express how good Emmy’s performance was. For a character whose decisions I actively pushed back against multiple times throughout the season, I couldn’t help but sympathize and hurt for Allison solely because of Emmy’s performance (because it surely wasn’t the writing). The shots of her brooding against walls in pain, the cry in anguish she does in one of the later episodes, Emmy killed the assignment. Point blank.

(This is a Read^TM, so more under the cut)

Now, I get what I think was the intention with this character choice. Obviously, it’s very clear that this is about Allison’s loss of Ray and more importantly, Claire. Allison at the end of Season 2 comes to peace about leaving Ray- she understands that the 60s is not her real timeline and that she has a daughter to go back to. It’s the inciting incident of seeing that Claire is not her bed but another little girl, leading Allison to realize that Claire doesn’t exist in the Sparrow timeline that sends Allison into her spiral.  But I’d actually say there’s a more important point than the obvious loss of relationships that Allison suffers that explains Allison in Season 3 and it is mentioned one time by the show, but is the most relevant in my opinion and that is: nihilism. 

Allison falls down a pit of nihilism. In the words of Chidi from The Good Place in Jeremy Bearimy, “The true meaning of life, the actual ethical system that you should all follow is nihilism. The world is empty. There is no point to anything, and you're just gonna die. So do whatever.” Allison’s actions in Season 3 are explained (but not justified) by nihilism. She says it all of one time in the season and I really think it should have been more heavily emphasized, but she feels like she’s in a time loop of loss. None of her relationships or the love that she gives and receives matter because the world is just going to end again and if it doesn’t, she’ll just lose another person she loves in a new timeline reset. It’s the same concept of many time loop stories: when actions have no consequences or the world seems to be pre-determined, what incentive is there to do the right thing? None of the actions matter. What does it matter if she kills Harlan if the Kugelblitz gets him tomorrow? What does it matter if she destroys her relationships with her two closest brothers if she’s just going to lose them anyway at some point? Nothing matters.

The Bad:

Like I said, I fully understand the rationale I think the writers were going for. But here’s the thing: The reasoning can make sense, but Allison’s actions are still wrong. And that’s fine! Characters can be complex and make mistakes; the audience watching know the actions are wrong and the writers writing it know that too, even if Allison has her own flawed rationale for those actions.

But the thing is, the writing is completely tasteless with how far they let it go. I’m on the fence about Harlan’s death because I think in a way it could show the severity of Allison’s fall into her nihilism loop, but I just don’t think it was written well enough to justify that. The Luther assault scene is the one that really got me though because it was just so supremely out-of-character. I truly do not think there’s anything in the writing of S1/2 that would point to Allison’s actions going there and yes, she realizes her mistake almost immediately, yada yada, but it really just seemed like one of those things where the writers for some reason wanted to tank the character to the point she seems irredeemable, which considering she’s our one female Hargreeves protagonist... I don’t know. Just doesn’t sit well with me.

I’m going to defend the way the Viktor relationship was handled in that I can see a rationale for it. They’ve always had a rocky bond (my favorite relationship in the show actually), but Allison’s actions at the end of S1 are really indicative of that relationship. She understands that Viktor doesn’t have a hold on his powers and though he slashes her throat and grievously injures her, she is the only one who fights for him. THAT is why the line “We should have kept you in the basement” makes sense. She was the only one trying to get him out and when she feels betrayed by Viktor in S3, she takes out that knife and goes, you know what? I was wrong to stick up for you. You ruined my life.

But therein lies the rub. Though I can defend the reaction on a conceptual level, on a textual level, there was NOT enough backing for what they went for. Something I hated about Allison’s “logic” was that it was a stupid string puzzle. It was because X did Y and Y did Z, I lost Claire. Because Harlan killed the mothers, which botched the timeline, and Viktor lied about Harlan, I lost Claire. But if you use that kind of logic, you can kind of justify anything. You could say, “Because Harlan killed the mothers, I lost Claire. But Harlan only had powers because of Viktor, so it’s Viktor’s fault. But Viktor was only in the 1960s because of Five, so it’s Five’s fault. But Five was only in a position to even know the others and transport them to the 60s because of Reginald, so it’s Reginald’s fault.” What I’m saying is if you can make a logic chain long enough, you can blame anyone for anything. And that’s what it felt like Allison’s rationale was in the later half of the season, which was exhausting. 

How would I have fixed it?

I’ve actually brainstormed what I’d do differently, and honestly, I don’t think I’d even have to change that much. I’d remove the Harlan incident and the Luther incident because truthfully, they were just unnecessary to the storyline. I’d tie in a Viktor conflict in a different way, so that Allison and Viktor could have their fight, but not have it be a direct reaction to Harlan’s death.

I would keep the nihilism spiral she’s got, keep the rationale. But there’s a line Allison says in one of the episodes about Ray dying eight or nine years ago. That’s what I would have changed.

I think a great way to have handled this would be that after her spiral, which was triggered by the loss of Claire, one of her siblings (which is something I haven’t mentioned about why else I thought this season suffered- none of the Hargreeves care about each other. Like it’s stated that they’re more of a family than the Sparrows ever were, but it is certainly not shown. But that’s a separate post.), preferably Viktor looks up Ray and takes Allison to him. They find Ray somewhere and he’s very, very old, of course.

Allison’s problem with nihilism stems from the concept that nothing matters. Her relationships don’t matter and have no impact. But meeting an old, old Ray could prove to her that they do. He probably moved on eventually after her, but he could tell her about how she impacted his life. Maybe their wedding picture is still on his mantle. It would be visible, tangible proof to Allison that even if her relationships and love have become ephemeral, they are worth something. 

I can see this happening around Episode 7-ish, Viktor and Allison make up and Allison joins the gang to fight the Kugelblitz (or accept the inevitable end alongside her family). And bing bang boom, Dark!Allison gets her moment to shine, but the arc she goes through makes sense and means something instead of ends nebulously the way it does in the actual Season 3.

Because after the events of the actual Season 3...

The writing seems on the wall to me that Allison is going to have a season almost entirely dedicated to atoning in Season 4. Because that’s what happens when a character gets a dark!arc that isn’t wrapped up within the season. They spend the next one atoning- she won’t get to be her own interesting person or have any meaningful development, it’ll just be a season of groveling and realization she was wrong and constant “I’m sorrys.” And that’s just boring. I don’t want to have to watch it, but I’m sure it’s what we’ll get.

#tua #tua spoilers #the umbrella academy spoilers #allison hargreeves #the umbrella academy meta

[thejakeformerlyknownasprince]

What I was wondering in particular about Percy Jackson is- on paper, it seems like it would have the same sort of seriousness as Animorphs going for it. Heroes die during battles. They fight and kill humans. The overarching conflict is morally grey. But Animorphs somehow *feels* darker, *feels* more real, and I can’t put my finger on why, and I was hoping you had insight.

One word: consequences.

Many words: In Percy Jackson, killing a monster momentarily inconveniences that monster - it'll be back in a few months. In Animorphs, killing a monster means killing a person with friends and family who will now miss that person who is gone forever - oh, and every time you kill a monster, you also kill an innocent prisoner of war.

Percy Jackson has a major plot hinging on Luke betraying his friends for reasons that are sympathetic as well as selfish, but when Luke chooses to die to save his species, it's implied that Luke has earned Elysium. Animorphs has a major plot hinging on David betraying his friends for reasons that are sympathetic as well as selfish, and this leaves his friends with no choice but to trap him in eternal body horror until such time as Rachel is implied to have killed him. It's canon that on death, Animorphs - including Rachel - "dissolve into nothing." Percy has to choose between letting Annabeth die and letting Kronos take Earth, but finds a third way out where no one dies. Marco has to choose between letting his mom die and letting Visser One take Earth - and then murders his mom. The Animorphs are tortured by the assumption they won't live to adulthood; Percy is tortured by the question of how to use immortality responsibly. So on.

#animorphs #percy jackson #violence #percy jackon and the olympians #animorphs meta #i think both types of stories work #you just have to be CONSISTENT about it [side-eyes umbrella academy]

[unabashedmoonlight]

I think tua made the sibling dynamics too healthy too soon. They were all isolated, made to compete with each other, abused, each others' only true company for years and the only ones who could understand each other. Then after the academy parted ways, most of them didn't interact. It was heavily implied in the first season that this is after a decade that Allison is meeting Klaus yada yada. Diego, notably, still harbours resentment and anger and so does Viktor and I am sure others do too.

All of this apparently got fixed because in season 2 because they got stuck in the past and didn't meet each other for years/months. I Get what they were trying to do. Years/months of being alone and stuck while not knowing if the others are alive or if they will ever meet again will give way to some of the kinder feelings.

But what do you mean they all just forgave Viktor. I don't consider that scenario to be 'Viktor ending the world' but how come They don't? Being stuck should have given way to feelings of some anger and misplaced blame too. They all lost other people too, they lost their entire world and they were not angry about that?? Some of them should be blaming Luther too? Some should go blame Allison because she fired the bullet? Again, I don't blame any of them but they all should be blaming each other imo.

They weren't bombarding Klaus with questions about Ben? Neither were they furious with him?

They should have been more angry, clingy, guilt-struck, trauma dumped on each other because of their unique experiences while also not really talking about their feelings and I think some of this they did do with Klaus (and kind of Five but he should have been more unhinged at all times) but then missed the mark on everyone else.

And of course, they are going to have fun childhood memories but these are supposedly children who got half an hour of free time per WEEK. Most of their fun and beloved memories should be a bit more extreme/violent than the ones they were constantly recalling.

It just comes off as way too unrealistic and I know tua is not a show that cares about that, its camp is half its appeal but the other half is its characters and their dynamics and I think they messed that up in season 2.

It was still fun, don't get me wrong but I suppose it could have been more fun.

#tua #the umbrella academy #diego hargreeves #viktor hargreeves #Allison hargreeves #five Hargreeves #luther hargreeves #ben Hargreeves #klaus hargreeves #tua meta

[frunbuns]

There's something so bittersweet about the childhood flashbacks in tua. They were all children together. Reginald was horrible, but they had each other. And then everything went to shit. Five's 13 year old body a bitter reminder of what once was. His siblings in their adult bodies a reminder of how things should've been. God,,,,

#and now they're so different #they have so little in common ): #Five came back to a family that he no longer knew and who no longer knew him #they can never go back #Five's lived half a lifetime without them #its never going to be the same #Five's also the only one of them who kept the number name which makes him more of a reminder of the past he's like a relic of a lost time #i'm rewatching s1 rn and oh man #it hurts so bad Five should've grown up with them #ben should've lived #god the tragedy of it all #they were children together </3 #the umbrella academy #tua s1 #tua season 1 #tua #umbrella academy #luther hargreeves #diego hargreeves #allison hargreeves #klaus hargreeves #ben hargreeves #five hargreeves #viktor hargreeves #tua s2 #tua s3 #tua season 2 #tua season 3 #mine #tua meta

[disco-tea]

I miss season 1 of TUA, I miss the way it was such a clear cut abuse/post-abuse story. The way it was about how your father abused you and screwed up your whole life but now he’s gone and you have to try to deal with that. You have to figure out how to mend the damaged done and if you even can. Can you fix that relationship with your sibling? Can you heal from all that pain? That resentment? The way it’s about the siblings but it’s also about Grace. Mom. It’s about Diego trying to protect his mom who was just as much a victim as anybody. It’s the journey from “how could you speak so well of him, he treated you worse than anybody” to Grace finally doing things she wants to do because “your father isn’t here anymore.” She’s free. It’s the way Grace was literally programmed to speak well of Reginald and apologize for his abuse and in so many ways, Luther was too. He doesn’t have code but he was programmed all the same. Season 1 of TUA is an amazingly well done allegory about abuse and how different people react to abuse and about still suffering the effects of abuse. About breaking out of that programming and the lies you were told. It’s about the way sometimes you end up copying your abusers shitty behavior and how you have to make the conscious choice not to. It’s about wishing you could raze your childhood home to the ground. It’s about surviving abuse and asking the question “what are you going to do now that he’s gone?” I just can’t stress enough how well done it was and how the show did itself such a huge disservice by erasing that timeline and bringing Reginald back.

#umbrella academy #tua meta

[big-ball-o-twine]

You know what, I don’t think that Five hates the portrait of himself that Reginald put up. When Five gets angry or annoyed or pissed off, he’s upfront about it. He makes it obvious. But in that scene, when he sees the portrait for the first time…nothing. No clenched jaw, no glare, no snide comment. There’s no indication that it bothers him. Quite the opposite, actually. Nice to know Dad didn't forget me, he says.

Five clung to the memories of his siblings for decades; he hoarded every trace of them he could get his hands on. Umbrella lunchboxes with his siblings little faces. Viktor’s book, read and annotated so many time you can barely read the original print. There was not a day that went by, he says, that he did not think of his siblings and miss them.

But in the meantime, his siblings continued on with their lives, separate from him. He’s been gone for seventeen whole years. That’s longer than he ever spent by their side. And they have children and friends and spouses and girlfriends and lives now. They’ve changed. They’ve moved on without him. Does he still matter to them, after all this time? Seventeen (forty-five) years later?

I think it must be a comfort to have some signs that they carried him with them too, even when he was gone. He clings to these things—he wears the UA uniform, and he keeps the name Number Five (one of seven), and when he handles that toy truck he played with so long ago, he does so gently. He likes these traces that he existed here once; that this was his home and he belonged here at one point and maybe he can belong here again. To his siblings, the portrait means something very different (a memorial and a warning all at once). But for Five? Nice to know my family didn’t forget me, he means.

#tua #five hargreeves #the umbrella academy #tua five #number five #tua musings #meta

[littlerit]

The mothers & their character

Musing on what we get to see of the Umbrella mothers, I have some thoughts. I wonder if the mothers were shown as deliberate reflections of their children?

Luther’s Mother. A confident business lady, giving or about to give a presentation. She shows leadership, confidence (that dress folks, YES), poise. Professional strength and intelligence. All things that Luther has aspired for.

Diego’s Mum. Shown in the home, preparing a meal. A home maker, caring, love language presumably acts of service. A reflection on how Diego always seems to have wanted to be a real family, with real connnections and care. His closeness with Mom/Grace. Also, knife skills.

Allison’s Mother - a teacher. And if my memory serves me, teaching geography/geology with a diagram of the earth’s layers on the chalkboard. A nurturer who works with youths/children, and who has the power to inspire and change lives with her words.

Klaus’ Mother - Amish. The simple, self-sufficient and religious life doesn’t seem a good fit at first glance, but when you look a little deeper I think there’s some parallels. Religion/Spirituality/Mediumship/literal crossing to the other side are all linked beneath the surface. And the self sufficient life style - Klaus has never really gone without. Whatever he has thought he needed or wanted (materialistically) he has been able to get, one way or another. He’s adaptable, a charmer, he always lands on his feet.

Five’s mother, the butcher. A professional who can get the job done, isn’t afraid to get her hands dirty, but can work with precision. Ability to separate emotions from the job at hand. Also, excellent blade skills and good understanding of anatomy. A good parallel to Five’s ruthless fighting style and the professional pride he took in his assassination work.

Ben’s schoolgirl mom. Young, really starting to explore life, with years and years ahead of her. Too young to be thrust into motherhood, such a momentous change, regardless of the instantaneous nature of it. A reflection or mirror to her son, who was beginning to explore life outside of the academy and died too young.

Viktor’s mother. The aspiring olympic swimmer who wanted to rise above ordinary and compete with the extraordinary - something Viktor longed for for most of his life and formed a huge part of the S1 arc, and really still influences Viktor even in S3.

#the umbrella academy #tua #hargreeves siblings #tua meta #umbrella academy

[sunriseseance]

Hi, I’m so sorry this ask is long and probably messy but I saw you talking about Allison and Klaus and I’ve been thinking about them a lot so here’s something:

I’ve seen a lot of people hating on Allison at the end of season 3 for making a deal with Reginald and “getting Luther and Klaus killed” when she clearly didn’t know that was gonna happen and there’s no way she would agree to do that.

Like they specifically have a problem with her making a deal with Reggie but, what do they think Klaus was doing? Do they think he was too stupid or too naive to make a deal? Is it not a deal if they don’t shake hands? Because I think Klaus was playing his own game and they just fell for the “I’m hanging out with dad because he’s nice now” act.

Reginald tried to use both of them to get the others on board with his plan but that didn’t work because, despite everything, they still respected their siblings decisions. Allison could have rumored everyone and be done, but instead she committed the crime of… actually talking to them and maybe putting on a fake smile? Klaus could’ve been very manipulative and insistent, enough that Lila told him to back off.

In the end, Luther got killed because they weren’t willing to go that far and Reginald had to find another way.

Yep yep yep. I think you are 100% correct. Allison clearly did not know what she was agreeing to, and she risked everything she could to undo the harm.

People have been falling for Klaus's shtick since the first week after season 1 came out. He says he is just a carefree silly who doesn't know better and can't do anything and the fandom says "yep!" or "I can't believe the writers would do this to him" instead of looking at the incongruencies as deliberate choices for them to examine. This is regrettably not new.

I think it is worth SERIOUSLY questioning why people are so charitable with Klaus and assume the absolute worst possible of Allison. Because you have hit the nail on the head. They are extremely similar characters, who have almost 100% the exact same flaws, and yet one is the fandom darling and the other's tag is about 80% people talking about how much they hate her.

#the umbrella academy #klaus hargreeves #allison hargreeves #tua meta #HOW FUN to use that tag again thank you anon!!!!!!!!!!!! #I missed out on s3 meta because I was doing chemo for stage 3 cancer #so it is nice to get back into it. #also: I am going to hear about Allison sexually assaulting Luther #1. she stopped. She realized what she was doing and she stopped. #2. Klaus has issues in that department as well #which is natural!!! They were child trafficked soldier billionaires and both used their charisma or LITERAL POWERS to get what they want #Of fucking course they are messed up in that way #She stopped. She is not an irredeemable monster. She is a person who went through THE WORST THING POSSIBLE and had some nasty reactions #Get the fuck off her ass

[cogentranting]

The thing about the other siblings never listening to Klaus or asking him for important information is that he's totally conditioned them into that. If you go back and watch Klaus's season 1 interactions with the others before Vietnam you'll see that a really large amount of what he says is lies or weird nonsense. Sometimes it's just because he's on his own track and he's Like that, sometimes it's kind of mocking, sometimes it's an attention thing, and sometimes it's outright manipulation in an attempt to get money for drugs (or whatever else he wants). But regardless, at that point in the story, the majority of what Klaus says is either being obnoxious, actively derailing what they're trying to do, or is in pursuit of something self destructive that they don't want him to do. And so they do their best to ignore him.

And from what we're shown, that's how Klaus was for at least 15 years. And he does change, for the most part. From Vietnam forward Klaus has a ton of character growth (even with a certain amount of relapsing and backsliding). BUT the amount of time actually spent with the siblings (other than Ben) since that growth started, adds up to only about two weeks. So 15 years of dealing with Klaus is going to outweigh two weeks. It takes time to unlearn those dynamics.

And also, Klaus does still do some things to reinforce the old pattern. Without context a lot of what he says sounds like nonsense. Even when he's being sincere it comes through in weird ways (the frog and the scorpion scene). He still has major attention seeking behaviors like starting a cult. He does still lie and withhold information intentionally (like about Ben in season 2).

And none of this is meant as a knock against Klaus-- I love Klaus, he's a great character. And it's not to say that they SHOULDN'T listen to Klaus more, just that it's really understandable why they DON'T. Old habits die hard. And for a long time, Klaus was not very trustworthy and not an easy person to be around, especially if you care about him.

#the umbrella academy #tua #klaus hargreeves #tua meta #cogent metas

[conduitandconjurer]

Klaus Hargreeves’s REAL superpower isn’t straddling both sides of the Veil or resuscitating and regenerating bodily damage or astral projection or levitation or even conjuring and exorcising ghosts....

It’s being able to get along with ANYONE and EVERYONE, lol.  It’s making people who hate everyone find him tolerable. It’s his irrepressible affability. Ingratiating is too strong and negatively-connoted a word, but it’s in that ballpark.  Got a new dangerous foe? Just send in Klaus, the funky queer Human Hug, to charm them into feeling relaxed, heard, and valued. 

“Why am I smiling and when did I start smiling?” they think, baffled. Because Klaus, that’s why. The “King of Death” is better than anyone else at making others feel ALIVE. 

#Klaus Hargreeves #TUA #The Umbrella Academy #meta

[destinyandcoins]

lmao i know it’s 2 seasons later but it just occurred to me: what if, at the beginning of s1, instead of deciding his funeral was the best way to get everyone back in one place, reginald decided to have a wedding instead

not only do we get the entertaining side-plot of this poor person reginald has bribed/blackmailed/begged to marry him For The Con, but the only reason any of the kids show up is because they got a wedding invite and immediately went “oh now this i gotta see”

#the episode is titled ''we only see each other at WEDDINGS and FUNERALS'' #i'm just saying it could have gone the other way #the umbrella academy #half the kids are there to check in with their new stepparent and make sure they're there of their own free will #''idk what he told you but you don't have to do this. say the word and i'll get you out of here'' #''no i promise i. definitely....want to...be here :) :) '' #i can't decide if it's funnier if five knew because time travel and he's already had time to adjust to this concept #so is perfectly polite and accommodating if slightly confused because the personality he built for them in his head isn't accurate #while the rest of them are going through the 5 stages of grief over discovering their dad is capable of romance #or if through some time fuckery five came from a timeline where he saw the news that reginald is dead #and then drops into the timeline in the middle of a fucking wedding and is COMPLETELY blindsided by this #but doesn't have time to deal with this shit #somehow THIS is the timeline where they do manage to prevent the apocalypse #and at the end of everything the new stepparent divorces the fuck out of reginald ASAP because holy shit they were not paid enough for this #and yet they're like ''well i did what you asked (even if you didn't mention the LOOMING APOCALYPSE) #but holy shit i'm taking these kids in the divorce because what the fuck dude what the FUCK. idc if they're all adults #they need a better family and now i'm obligated to be that for them'' #and reginald was playing fast and loose because of the LOOMING APOCALYPSE and didn't sign a prenup #so the new stepparent gets the academy (the property AND the actual kids) and reginald has to move out and live on the streets #tua meta

[i-seeaspaceshipinthe-sky]

reginald lied to klaus about his death in 3x07. in 3x06, when klaus comes to visit him, it’s a day; it’s still a day when reginald electrocutes him to death:

it’s night, when allison comes to the academy with harlan’s body in the trunk (and there’s also klaus’ body somewhere in the academy):

and it seems only the NEXT DAY reginald takes klaus out for training. in 3x07, reginald tells klaus he remained dead for 22 minutes. so, klaus probably thinks it’s still the day when he told reginald about the white buffalo suite; the last thing he remembers is being electrocuted. reginald also adds that klaus was totally vulnerable, and he could’ve taken any of his organs. klaus is shocked, because why good ol’ reggie would do that, right?

the training starts at 1:15 p.m., reginald writes it down. logically, klaus’ 22-minute-long death should be listed as 001, but:

it’s 004. 22 minutes - lower body (something something), and LACERATION? before that, 003 - failure (?). 

between klaus’ FIRST electrocution and the bus-ball training, reginald had killed him not one, but four (FOUR!) times. and, most likely he did indeed try to cut him/cut out his organs (?) to check on how/if his dead body can heal itself. spoiler alert: klaus CAN HEAL HIMSELF even when he’s dead. later, we can see it in 3x09 when he comes back to life when the wound on his stomach has ALREADY healed. (so no one could steal his falling out guts, right? reginald knew. old bitch fucking knew). 

so, i think reginald kept electrocuting klaus all night between 3x06-3x07 (with the method reginald chose, it could probably mess up klaus’ memories? he literally doesn’t remember shit except for being electrocuted one last time?) until he made sure that: a) klaus comes back fairly quick now (attempt 003 says 26 minutes, not bad, not bad!) and b) his body heals from any injuries so haha getting crashed with a car is not a big deal.   

#the umbrella academy #tua meta #tua theory #klaus hargreeves #reginald hargreeves #tua #umbrella academy #meta

[mortal-song]

klaus has this habit of searching for answers and purpose in the same place he lost them. his autonomy was stolen from him as a child, and he lives with that loss every day. it’s quite common for people with that experience to live with dissociative symptoms, and i actually think klaus is a realistic portrayal of that. while it’s never outright said that it’s dissociation he deals with, i think a lot of survivors could probably see it in him. he’s always seemed to feel a disconnect with himself, with his own body (for example -- and this is a small one -- when he told ben “you’re not getting in this body,” rather than my body). his identity is something transient, something that shifts drastically sometimes depending on the situation he’s in, which is a common experience in people with dissociative symptoms -- we’re like “chameleons.” 

he forgets key things regarding his trauma: that, or his brain will twist the events to make them more palatable to himself. he didn’t remember being killed as a child, even though it happened multiple times. and despite not remembering anything, he still has visceral reactions when it comes to being confined. he may not consciously remember every event, but his body does, and so he reacts accordingly, as if the threat of being killed again were a present one. because the body remembers the loss of control, it remembers the autonomy that was once stolen. then there’s “bus ball.” obviously, it was an objectively shitty, terrifying thing, being once again murdered, multiple times by your own father and abuser -- and as an experiment, no less. despite that, the events were portrayed as something that was for the most part fun, almost. and when he vaguely recounted said events later on, he referred to it as “bus ball.” like it really was nothing more than a game. that’s another common dissociative symptom, and a common trauma symptom: being so disconnected on a certain level from your own trauma that you’re able to talk about it like it’s nothing. that you’re able to remember a skewed version of it so that you don’t have to internalize any of the real terror.

touch is another one. klaus is a very tactile person. he communicates well through touch. but he often doesn’t like being touched, unless it’s from someone he knows, loves and trusts.

he startles easily, too. will jump back at sudden movements or words, gets frightened by loud noises and will cover his ears.

his need for connection is relevant here, too. he has a hard time being alone with himself, and so he finds people to cling to, or finds people that will cling to him, just to stave off those feelings and to ground himself, almost. sometimes it spirals out of control, like with the cult. but his constant need for connection stems from feeling disconnected.

one of his passing comments to luther in s1 (”I remember my first time... oh no. i don’t”) hits hard, too. it’s not uncommon for trauma victims to experience hypersexuality as a result of this loss of autonomy. and then, to not even remember some of these encounters (obviously, the drugs/alcohol likely play a role in this not remembering. but hey, what’s addiction often a symptom of? oh yeah. trauma.)

this disconnect he feels from his own body is also why he was able to have certain encounters even with people he didn’t like. keechie comes to mind. he didn’t like keechie, that was made clear. but it sounds like he still had no problem having sex with him, despite this. it’s common, when you have dissociative symptoms, to feel this sort of disconnect. you don’t always care what happens to a body that doesn’t feel like yours, hell, you can enjoy it, sometimes -- even if you don’t like the person you’re doing it with.

it’s why he gets off on torture, too. klaus being a masochist was clearly portrayed in episode four, but then was referenced again two other times. (”if i see a boner, i’m out” when he was being tied up, and, “i’m going to beat you, and not the way you like it.”) when you grow up tortured and become accustomed to it it’s easy for the brain to say “hey, this is unbearable so actually we like this thing now. that’ll make it bearable!” i mean, obviously it’s a little more complicated than that, but that’s the gist of the situation. 

you often find comfort -- or even pleasure -- in familiarity, even when familiarity isn’t safe. we see that in klaus.

and that leads me back to my main point: klaus searches for answers, he searches for purpose in the same places he lost them. if he can give up his body to anyone who will take it, then maybe he can take back autonomy, is what he might think. if he can have a say in his own destruction, whether it’s addiction or reckless behavior, then maybe he can take back control. 

but that’s never truly how it plays out. a trauma survivor will never find what they’re looking for this way. i believe that klaus is starting to realize this, even if he does run into setbacks, and even though he will continue to run into setbacks. if he wants to find control, and if he wants to find purpose, he will have to reroute that energy into a path of recovery rather than destruction. it’s a hard hill to climb, but we know he can do it.

i could say more about this, but i think this says enough, for now.

#klaus hargreeves #the umbrella academy #tua #this is something very personal to me #actually #kind of feels like standing on a podium and going i'm gonna tell you my deepest secrets #but this is NOT about me #it's about klaus #it's just that there's a reason i understand him so well #tua meta

[allisoooon]

Here to remind y’all that if the Sparrows did indeed get abused worse than the Umbrellas, that does not mean the Umbrellas did not have it that bad.  The Umbrellas were still horrifically abused.  They are not whining unnecessarily, their validity is not undermined, and they still very much have the right to be as fucked up as they damn well please.  Reg being more strategic now that he basically gets a do-over does not mean he’s not the exact same man he was the first time around.

#tua meta #the umbrella academy #the sparrow academy #five hargreeves #klaus hargreeves #ben hargreeves #diego hargreeves #allison hargreeves #luther hargreeves #viktor hargreeves #reginald hargreeves