#the untamed meta

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 40 part one

(Masterpost) (Pinboard)  (whole thing on AO3)

Warning! Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Agree to Disagree

The juniors are arguing because Sizhui said that some demonic cultivators might have good intentions. According to Jin Ling that means that Sizhui is celebrating the murders of Jin Ling's parents, or something.

(Actor) Peixin Qi uses forehead-squinching as a primary acting tool, which would be perfectly fine if he wasn't playing a character with a red dot between his eyebrows.

He goes on to say that Wei Wuxian is the evillest of them all, way eviller than Xue Yang. Which in sheer numbers of victims, is probably a fair point. But Xue Yang was way more of a dick.

Ouyang Zichen is all of us when he asks Jin Ling to chill the fuck out.

Sizhui apologizes even though Jingyi is ready to throw down on his behalf. It's unclear if this helps, because Hanguang-Jun chooses this moment to arrive. He immediately defuses the situation with the power of stinkeye.

(more after the cut!)

More Than Meets the Eye

Many differences between CQL and the novel are adaptational choices - Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji's deep, early friendship; the yin iron plot, Jiang Cheng being loveable, etc. Changes like that, I normally don't point out, because adaptations are AUs, in my view, and can be enjoyed separately from their sources.

Other changes are driven by censorship, however, and in those cases I think it's fair to look to the novel and its less-censored adaptations for a peek at what's happening off camera. Particularly when there are scenes and interactions in The Untamed where the show seems to be deliberately pointing to the novel to fill in the blanks.

This moment on the stairs is one such scene. In the show, Lan Wangji carries liquor upstairs to Wei Wuxian, and the juniors react with shock; Jingyi drops his chicken out of his mouth and Sizhui stuffs it back in there.

They are shocked because he bought liquor, and that's the extent of their reaction.

In the Donghua, Manhua, and Novel, Lan Wangji is dragging Wei Wuxian up those stairs, having drunkenly tied him up with his headband.

First he stops to show his prize to the juniors, who have basically the same reaction in every version of the story, including Jinygi dropping his chicken and Sizhui stuffing it back in his mouth. In the novel, however, Sizhui does that to stop Jingyi from saying anything to Lan Wangji & his captive.

The liquor, in all versions, is a clear sign of how much Lan Wangji has mellowed since his youth. In case we need another reminder, we learn here that he let Sizhui get a tattoo on his finger.

Every parent will tell you, you gotta pick your battles.

Returning to to the timeline in which no visible bondage is occurring, Wei Wuxian is sitting around in the room upstairs waiting for Lan Wangji. Wasn't he busy talking to Lan Xichen when Lan Wangji went into the inn to shut the kids up? How did he get upstairs before Lan Wangji? Never mind, never mind.

Wei Wuxian goes to look out the window and Wen Ning appears, hanging off the roof like a dork, or like someone who has seen that one Spider-Man movie and is hoping for some upside-down kissing.

Wen Ning asks if Jin Ling is the kid he halfway orphaned, and Wei Wuxian says yes.

Then he hears Lan Wangji coming, and Wen Ning falls to the ground for no reason.

Wei Wuxian urgently shoos Wen Ning away, trying to hide him from Lan Wangji.

Wen Ning acts way too clueless for someone who spends so much time third-wheeling.

There's no in-world reason for Wei Wuxian to hide Wen Ning; They fought side-by side in Yi City, and they were all together for A-Qing's burial. There's not a problem between him and Lan Wangji.

Once again, the novel provides the missing information. Wei Wuxian is hiding Wen Ning because Lan Wangji is hella jealous even when he's sober. Wen Ning fell to the ground because drunk Lan Wangji leapt through the window and kicked him.

In the novel, Wei Wuxian & Lan Wangji's evening ends with a game of tag that's loaded with sexual tension, followed by a kiss...followed by Lan Wangji literally knocking himself out to avoid taking advantage of Wei Wuxian.

Lan Wangji does everything in the most extreme way possible.

In the live action, the most sexually charged part of their interaction is this positively sinful hip thrust that Wei Wuxian gives when he turns around at the window.

If you've seen Xiao Zhan dancing, you know this is not an accident.

Unlike the novel's perpetually clueless protagonist, live-action Wei Wuxian clearly knows he's on a date right now.

...and he's enjoying every minute of it. He's delighted that Lan Wangji has provided *good* liquor, rather than the rotgut he's able to afford himself.

As he pours for Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji points out that both of their brothers know who WWX is at this point. Wei Wuxian isn't happy about it but he says they can't do anything. Which is...not correct.

He tries once again to get Lan Wangji to tell him how he recognized him, and Lan Wangji responds by asking him why his memory sucks so much.

Wei Wuxian says "you try dying by falling from a great height TWICE and see how your brain likes it." That's what he should have said, anyway.

This whole thing about his memory isn't actually important in the live action, even though it keeps being mentioned. He's forgotten the name of their song because he was delirious when he heard it; otherwise his memory seems perfectly fine.

I think this might be another instance of the live action giving a wink to novel readers in the audience, because in the novel Wei Wuxian forgot Lan Wangji's confession of love. Which, like WangXian, was presented in a cave while WWX was delirious; Lan Wangji is not great at choosing his moment.

Anyway, this may be why Lan Wangji seems to take Wei Wuxian's memory problems personally, despite having very little in-show reason to be upset.

Lan Wangji changes the subject by asking Wei Wuxian to go to Jinlintai with him, to search for Nie Mingjue's head. Sounds like a perfect romantic getaway for a boy and his favorite necromancer.

Just as Wei Wuxian starts to ask what Zewu-Jun will think, Zewu-Jun and his cheekbones come into the room.

He's taken time to think things over--a concept the rest of the cultivation world could stand to learn about, incidentally--and he agrees that they should investigate.

Note: the non-CQL illustrations come from the MDZS manhua, which is complete online (mangadex.org includes the uncensored extra bits), and is about halfway through being published in English by Seven Seas. It's delightful and I highly recommend it.

Bonus: Lan Wangji and Sizhui enjoying some tie-in cup noodles. (A few in-character ads are included in the Viki version of the show.)

#the untamed #wei wuxian cup noodles #the manhua fills in the blanks like a champ #jingyi's chicken #wei wuxian's tiny waist #wangxian date night #the untamed gifs #the untamed meta #restless rewatch the untamed #canary3d-original #ep40

[winterprince601]

one of the most obviously sad and frustrating things about wei wuxian is the way in which everyone assumes the worst of him All Of The Time. whilst this clearly encompasses classist rich dicks like jin zixun and the people who make up evil myths about the yiling patriarch, even ostensibly virtuous characters like nie mingjue and lan xichen are constantly suspicious of him. jiang cheng is a classic example - despite loving his brother, he finds it easier to believe that he's lazy or out of control than interrogate his motives. even love of my life lan wangji, prior to wwx's resurrection, doesn't stop to consider that wwx might have good reasons for not retaking the sword path beyond a greed for power so out of character, it's laughable. having said all of that:

SHOUTOUT TO JIANG YANLI WHO NOT ONLY LOVED HER BROTHER DEEPLY, BUT FIERCELY AND DEMONSTRABLY. SHE *ALWAYS* ASSUMED THE BEST OF HIM AND DEFENDED HIM. GRIEF NEVER BLINDED HER. IRONICALLY, CONSIDERING HER BUDGET MR-DARCY-ASS HUSBAND, THE WORD ""PREJUDICE"" DID NOT EXIST IN HER VOCABULARY. JIANG YANLI SAW THE SOCIAL HORRORS OF THE CULTIVATION WORLD AND SAID NOT TODAY AND NEVER MY A-XIAN. I MISS HER. JYL FOR CHIEF CULTIVATOR 623 BC.

#not asoiaf today whoops #jiang yanli has so many good traits #but in a novel where wwx is the protaganist this one has always stuck out to me immensely #she has that reader's clarity #she knows our boy #and she is the most uncorrupted by social pressures of the sects #i love and miss her #jiang yanli #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #the untamed #cql #lan wangji #mdzs #mdzs meta #the untamed meta #wwx #jyl

[pastelcheckereddreams]

Okay but we never think about Suibian!!! We never think about how the sword is meant to embody the principle by which one lives. Swords are named and used and died upon.

Jiang Yanli is a sword. Wen Qing is a sword. But this is not their narrative.

Swords are passed down through generations.

Suibian seals itself off instead of risk being passed to a new generation because no one is worthy of drawing it.

Xue Yang was not worthy of drawing it. But maybe Mo Xuanyu was. Maybe Nie Huaisang saw that. But as always - they were too late.

Suibian waits. It waits for its master - and its master bequeaths it to his shidi. Wei Wuxian gives his core - his sword and his self - to his shidi.

When Jiang Cheng unsheathes Suibian - that is the moment he finally understands his shixiong's desires. His burden.

Wei Wuxian is also, ultimately, a sword. He bequeaths himself to Jiang Wangyin thirteen years before he is ready. And thirteen years too late.

But - Jiang Cheng sacrifices himself first.

Suibian is a desire: break free. Suibian is a sword: I'm here. Suibian is a hope a plee: Anything.

#nikkiwrites #cql meta #the untamed meta #it's been an Untamed day #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #yunmeng brothers #yunmeng siblings #yunmeng shuangjie #mxtx meta #mdzs meta

[nutcasewithaknife]

Controversial take time! Wei Wuxian knew that his siblings always loved him, but believed that they were making a mistake in doing so.

(This got too long, it's is under the cut!)

Hear me out. I don't think that Wei Wuxian didn't know he was loved unconditionally. He knew!! For a whole year or so after the war, he was at Yunmeng doing less that the bare minimum to help rebuild, and his brother is mad about it. But he still tries to stand up for Wei Wuxian in front of the rest of Jianghu! The have the stupid soup conversation! Yanli goes off at Jin Zixun in front of half the Jianghu bigshots for insulting him, runs into a battlefield for him after he's killed her husband!! He's never truly afraid of meeting Jiang Cheng post-resurrection, not surprised at all at being asked why he didn't come home. He's just trying to avoid the inevitable mess of feelings that the meeting would entail. Afterall, when it came down to it, Jiang Cheng shut his eyes and stabbed a rock in the end, not him, not even after he'd killed their sister.

Now for the argument. Look, the sibling trio has some complex dynamics, but they survived that household on a mutual understanding that they love each other. That's why Wei Wuxian leaving is the point that casts everything into doubt - they have always been together, and that was an immutable fact until it suddenly wasn't. I don't thing Jiang Yanli or Jiang Cheng ever understood how much Wei Wuxian took their mother to heart - he truly believed any love he deserved was to be earned, because was was a servant. Unconditional love was for family only!

It hit me only while watching the best scene aka Yanli ripping into Jin Zixun at the hunt. She defends him, basically declares him as part of her family, and Wei Wuxian? He's watching his sister having to defend him when it should be the other way round, getting flak for sticking up for him too. He's in agonies the entire time! He's not even happy about jzx getting verbally eviscerated in public!

Most obvious between Sunshot and leaving with the Wens, there's a pattern. Wei Wuxian may not be stepping in as First Disciple to rebuild, but he's still useful - nobody will dare harm the Yunmeng Jiang while he is part of it and holds the power of the Stygian Tiger Amulet. And then, slowly but surely, he sees his brother and and sister standing up for him, deescalating political situations caused by others vying for the very power he possessed and wanted to use to protect the sect. It was actually harming them, in a way that couldn't be solved by its brute force. He is the opposite of useful, now - he's the root of a brewing threat to the sect. This is a huge part of why he leaves! He's pushing away the people he can no longer help but only harm, and he's going to those who he can still be useful to.

Yes, it's about keeping them safe because he loves them, and about protecting lives, but also because he thinks his brother and sister had it wrong all along - they saw him as family when he was just a servant, and therefore acceptable as collateral damage. He cannot allow them to protect him, because that's his job even if they refuse to acknowledge that, isn't it? He left because he thought he was useless, a danger, he didn't deserve their love after they had to defend him at the cost of harm to the sect and themselves. It really fits into his habit of deciding for others once he's made up his mind, doesn't it?

The crux of it is, I think, that he eventually learns that he can have a family. That's why Lan Wangji is important. He doesn't have a fragile, struggling sect of people to protect above everything else, unlike Jiang Cheng. He doesn't die while trying to stick to Wei Wuxian's side, unlike Yanli. He doesn't die for Wei Wuxian either, like Wen Qing. Lan Wangji is able to stay by his side and survives it long enough for him to realise that maybe, just maybe, having him as family is worth breaking rules for, and won't get people killed by default.

#wei wuxian #meta #cql #mdzs #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #lan wangji #Wangxian #yunmeng siblings #the untamed meta #wwx #lwj #jc #jyl #he has sooo many issues. I adore him

[silvandar]

Thinking about Xue Yang again.

We know at age 7 his entire left hand was crushed by a cart. His little finger was fully destroyed, so the rest of the damage must have been equally severe. Yet he has full use of his hand as an adult (apart from the missing pinkie). How?

He had no parents, he was a street brat probably due to his entire clan being wiped out by Wen Mao. Noone was around to mend his wounds, or teach him cultivation skills to heal.

What if he became a demonic cultivator for the same reason as Wei Wuxian - to survive?

He is the remnant of an incredibly powerful cultivation clan, and we know that cultivation strength and talent is hereditary. Born with that power, but lacking teaching or knowledge, perhaps the horribly injured and alone child found the power inside him bolstered by the resentful energy surrounding him?

Perhaps Xue Yang was the victim of demonic cultivation as much as he was a perpetrator of it?

All speculation, and nothing excuses his actions as an adult, especially towards Song Lan and Xiao Xingchen. But an interesting thought when considered with the other parallels MXTX puts between Xue Yang and Wei Wuxian.

If Wei Wuxian had grown up on the streets, perhaps mauled by a wild dog as he feared, without proper training and noone to give him a moral compass, would he still have become a force for good?

If Xue Yang had been taken in by a cultivation clan before his injury, would he still have become a monster?

#xue yang #mdzs #the untamed #mxtx #the untamed meta #thinking about Him #yi city

[sorrowschengmei]

why almost every villain in MDZS breaks their expected gender role somehow

btw please notice when i say 'masculine' i'm not saying 'manly in a contemporary western POV' i'm basically saying 'appropriate behaviour for a cisgender male of his social position' so yes expect a lot of class struggle as newsflash, identity based  oppression ALWAYS walks hand in hand with social class [there's a reason upper class americans always seem more comfortable to display gender nonconforming behaviour than working class ppl of the global south]

first i'd like to use a character as pretty much an example of  almost 100% gender conforming behaviour in that show: Wangji.

yes he's gay, but that really doesn't seem to be an issue in this setting. why? bc he dresses plainly, doesn't display excessive emotion, shows devotion to his family, respects customs, doesn't mingle outside his  social class... i mean, we all watched that show, he DOES slip sometimes, but not enough to create a reputation of rule breaker or something. even in his most rebellious moments, he's still inside everything one might expect of a cisgender man of his social class.

so who fails to meet the standard? characters that are heavily punished for doing so. that become bitter and resentful, and display their suffering acting in vengeful, cruel, calculating ways. that look at the society that ruined them, and say 'i'll ruin this bitch'.

and yes, this list includes Wei Ying. so say hello to the mean girls of MDZS!

starting by the most obvious example: Mo Xuanyu, gay, gender nonconforming to shocking levels and mentally ill. taken into the Jin sect, goes there and hits on his half brother. absolutely iconic. 

no really this character spits and pisses on the face of society, and its one of the saddest examples of this list as he not only doesn't do much damage as the others, he's also driven to suicide. i won't list all the ways he's GNC bc honestly there aren't too many ways he WAS in gender conformity lol

another character that resorts to ways that could be called antagonistic and also struggles with gentlemanly behaviour is Nie Huaisang.

he's devoted to the arts, what is NOT unmasculine per se, but the fact he can't succeed at swordsmanship, won't display a traditional assertive and unattached attitude when in a leadership position and has an overall sensitive and gentle demeanor mark him as a deviant from his assigned gender role, what is harshly punished by the masculine-and-manly-in-a-contemporary-western-POV Nie Mingjue. as he cannot win in direct confrontation, he appeals to indirect ways and social manipulation [completely ungentlemanly behaviour] much like the next in the list: Meng Yao.

this one is sorta tricky to fit in this list bc he DOES display gender conforming behaviour but as we can see, its either something fucking wicked like impregnating his own sister or pretty much a role he's playing. Yao is PAINFULLY aware of how society works. he can see clearly all the roles and picks those that will favour him. does it mean he's comfortable with them?

no lol to become the perfect married, with an heir, of high status, filial etc male model he does unspeakable things. i absolutely love this character and i'm yes, based af towards him bc his tragedy is BEING TOO GOOD AT FITTING GENDER ROLES. accepting anything to dodge the social outcast status that was imprinted on him since he was born. a whoreson is not a man, he's something less than a man, he's a Mo Xuanyu, he's a Xue Yang. he has no family to honour, no place in the social pyramid, no means of starting his own family.

he's unmasculine by definition. and much like Huaisang, Yao was graced with a soft and gentle presence, more appropriate for a Mianmian than a sect leader. talking of Xue Yang.... 

yes, he's pretty much 'manly' in a western contemporary POV. he kills ppl and displays antisocial behaviour, what is pretty much tied to our current view on manhood [see the soldier and the CEO as peak examples of the ''alpha male'']

 but whose family is he going to honor? what kind of emotional restraint is laughing during a massacre? which customs are being respected when a working class-born man kills an entire highborn clan for something that according to the custom he should just accept as his fate and move on?

add to that the fact he's very much satisfied with assuming a housewife role and hits on upper class men obscenely in any opportunity he has, and you have a walking menace to the entire concept of masculinity of this setting. *throws kiss* for Xue Yang, ancient Chinese working class queer icon.

then we have Su Minshan, who BETRAYED HIS CLAN out of devotion for a WHORESON, and has a lifelong grudge with who? yes, THE masculine role model, Lan Wangji, who honestly couldn't care less, he's just trying to live his already hard enough life in peace.  Su Minshan offends almost everything that means being a man in his setting. plus he's cunning-not a good look.

and finally we have the Yiling Laozu, that one that broke all the taboos, offended all the customs, rejected swordsmanship and embraced music, all while being romantically involved with a Lan of Gusu when he's merely a Jiang associate. and the most iconic part?

MXTX made him the fucking protagonist. yes. the dude who went there and dishonored everything that means being a man in his setting, she doesn't want us to think he's lowly, dirty, unworthy of empathy--there are enough characters doing this already. she wants us to join this gender nonconforming gay man as he lifts all the veils of society, wrecking mayhem in their little extremely rigid feudal system, intriguing the a-Yaos, a-Yangs, Minshans, Huaisangs and Xuanyus with his ways so similar but so different from theirs. it's like the author is saying:

'we know you are hurting. we know society fucked you up. but please, dont become bitter. you still can create a beautiful life for you. you don't need to be stuck in a coffin, left to rot, suicided or tossed aside. you CAN write your WangXian song and cultivate until immortality'

and honestly i dont think i've ever seen any work so obscenely thought-provoking regarding gender roles, social roles and trauma as MDZS....

#the untamed #wei wuxian #xue yang #jin guangyao #the untamed meta #tl;dr: every villain in mdzs is gay and traumatised and this IS supposed to make you feel bad [and revolutionary] #Sorrowful Thoughts

[qpjianghu]

world events: happen

laundry: demands my attention

work: needs to be done

real people: exist

my brain literally every second of every day: --the musical masterpiece Zui Meng starts out with Lan Wangji’s guqin playing the melody and Wei Wuxian’s flute following but also deviating a bit, symbolizing Lan Wangji following the expected path while Wei Wuxian does his own thing, then segues into Wei Wuxian’s flute leading Lan Wangji’s guqin as Lan Wangji begins to open his eyes to Wei Wuxian’s worldview, and finally culminates with both instruments playing the melody at the same time but still with their distinct voices, this proves that true love never existed before Wangxian in fact invented it by following their own paths and staying true to themselves while finding their way to each other in the end, and in conclusion your honor--

#wangxian #the untamed #the untamed meta #wei wuxian #lan wangji #i am ill #they literally make me question my aroaceness #or in fact help me double down on it because I FEEL THINGS when I think about them that I NEVER imagine feeling irl #I hate them #I hope they're happy forever and being cute and disgusting #thank you for coming to my ted talk and therapy session

[jgys-hat]

(Disclaimer: This is based on show canon as I haven’t read the book yet!)

I just...think about Nie Huaisang’s character development a lot... Does he ever think about and miss the person he used to be before his brother was killed and he started his years-long revenge plot, when he had people around him who cared for him? Does he resent JGY even more than he already did, for forcing his hand so that he became a cynical manipulator? And then when he kills JGY, that’s the person who effectively raised Jin Ling (alongside Jiang Cheng), who will now end up as leader of his clan before he’s ready, so does he ever think about the fact that he’s now inflicted on this poor kid something quite similar to what was done to him? Does he ever feel guilty about that aspect of it?

And how much more soul-crushing would it be to find out that JGY killed his brother, given that the two even lived under the same roof for some time, and the help JGY gave him after he became clan leader... That would just make you so much angrier. And I think he does have a lot of anger, he just expresses it differently from how his brother did - it’s a smouldering deep-down anger rather than an explosive outburst, but I think it’s still very much there. You’d have to be that angry to persevere for years with that plot, through the Fear that you could be found out at any moment... And he can’t even express it because he’ll end up risking everything he’s worked towards, he has to keep it hidden behind a mask and has nobody he can confide in, and has to spend years acting as the Headshaker when he’s actually been Changed completely.

Like...his quest for revenge ends up with him becoming more like the person he hated - especially as he has to become so adept at hiding his true feelings behind a mask - and it just makes me so sad for him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s perfectly aware of this himself, and is bitter about it. And then there’s the fact that after the whole thing, it’s likely the people who know what happened will find it really hard to trust him in the future - there’s always going to be the thought at the back of their minds of: “What if he’s plotting against me right now and I won’t even know it until ten years from now?” I don’t personally think he’d feel inclined to pull something like that again, but I think they would always be wondering... Especially Lan Xichen - you can tell from his face when NHS says “I don’t know” that last time that he’s not sure whether to believe him...

I would just really like to know more about what happens to him post-canon... I love him as a character so much, partly because every single thing about his life gets sadder the more you think about it. I wanted to cheer for him when he pulled off his plan, but at the same time I just think he really needs a hug :((( I want to imagine that eventually he finds some kind of happiness, because he deserves it after everything he goes through, but I think it would take a long time to get there, and there are a lot of things that would never wholly be made Right again. And... I think there would be an element of not quite knowing what to do with himself now he’s succeeded in what he’s set out to do, and no longer has the fear of discovery hanging over his head at all times. I think it would take a while to adjust to that.

#this got really long and he's not even my favourite character #I haven't watched Fatal Journey yet so knowing my luck it invalidates everything I've written here lol #The Untamed #The Untamed meta #Nie Huaisang #NHS #Splash witters

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 40 part two

(Masterpost) (Pinboard)  (whole thing on AO3)

Warning! Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

What a Relief

After spending a few weeks in Gusu doing...stuff, our trio comes to Jinlintai for the discussion conference. Unusually for a CQL stair-climbing scene, nobody is planning to murder anyone once they get to the top.

Our crew walks up the stairs past 3 massive sculpted reliefs featuring Jin Guangyao.

First and most important, I have to point out that the sculpture version of Lan Xichen [edit: Nie Mingjue actually, whoops] is wearing a sash that looks like this:

*cough*

Meanwhile, for the picture with the sword and flames, qhanzi.com tells me that the written characters are 伏殺, fú shā; Google translate tells me this means "ambush." Specifically Fu=conceal, Sha=kill. Ballsy to have a monumental artwork on your front steps announcing that you're a backstabbing turncoat, Jin Guangyao.

Speaking of balls, Jiang Cheng jumps at the opportunity to bust some when the Lan bros arrive with Wei Wuxian in tow. He pretends not to know who Wei Wuxian is, but obviously does know something, given how bitchily he asks to be introduced. Lan Wangji continues his 13-year-long silent treatment of JC while Lan Xichen tries to figure out which bland smile he's meant to be deploying in this situation.

(more after the cut!)

They're all rescued by the appearance of Jin Guangyao 3.0, who has discarded his Nie braids and his Wen hotness in favor of Jin ostentatiousness.

He's no longer wearing the v-neck robe and topknot crown that we associate with the cultivation sects. Instead he's wearing a hat and a round-necked robe with a big embroidered design on the chest, that resembles the clothing style of a court official.

Some people see JGY's bureaucratic wardrobe as signaling that he's an unassuming administrator, someone who is not threatening to the power structure or is not ambitious. I see it more as conveying that his ambition reaches beyond the cultivation sects into the realm of dynastic/imperial politics.

Anyway, Jiang Cheng turns his ire towards his nephew, and Lan Xichen relaxes again. Possibly he is a little too relaxed, judging by how he's ogling Jiang Cheng.

I'm high as a kite, I just might stop to check you out

Party Monster

Fanfics are often accused of giving us an out-of-character (OOC) Wei Wuxian, but no fanfic Wei Wuxian is as OOC as the Wei Wuxian who attends this banquet. Normally Wei Wuxian is a mildly annoying flirt, but as soon as soon as he arrives in Koi tower he is (presumably) possessed by the spirit of Jin Guangshan, and becomes a gross sex pest.

He goes out of his way to hit on the wife of the clan leader and make googly eyes at all of the maids, whose social status doesn't allow them to be rude to him. And he does it in front of his date! What the hell, possessed Wei Wuxian.

While oblivious to Lan Wangji's jealousy, Wei Wuxian does check in with him to make sure it's ok to put on his "crazy Mo Xuanyu" act. LWJ replies with a certain amount of salt, but once Wei Wuxian makes it clear he's thinking about Lan Wangji's public face, LWJ chills out and answers him normally.

Side note: in no universe would this cute lil maid be making eyes at heavily-masked Mo Xuanyu when unmasked, radiant, filthy-rich Lan Wangji is right there to be smiled at.

Jin Guangyao greets everyone and some dancers start doing their thing; mercifully, possessed Wei Wuxian refrains from hitting on the dancers. As soon as Jin Guangyao starts to circulate through the room, Nie Huaisang has an epic nervous breakdown all over him, which is even better entertainment than the dancers.

This gives Wei Wuxian the cover he needs to slip out of the hall unnoticed. Well, as long as nobody notices Lan Wangji's obvious pining.

Fight Club

The prophecy foretells that into each generation of Jins will be born one douchebag cousin. Jin Chan is the douchebag cousin of his generation.

Jin Chan accuses "Mo Xuanyu" of being a sex pest, and Wei Wuxian suddenly understands why the plot made him act so OOC at the party. Mo Xuanyu wasn't really a sex pest; he was a regular pest, trying to get information out of Qin Su, not trying to seduce her. But he doesn't know that yet. In other adaptations Mo Xuanyu is gay, but CQL exists in a strange censorship-created realm in which gayness is pervasive but never mentioned, and therefore there is no homophobia. So nobody would care if Mo Xuanyu was gay.

When Wei Wuxian realizes what Mo Xuanyu did, he thinks "Mo Xuanyu, do you want to die?"

Nice choice of idiom, Wei Wuxian. I believe we have firmly established that yes, Mo Xuanyu absolutely did want to die.

The show is kind of vague, verbally, about whether Wei Wuxian 2.0 has a golden core. But there are a lot of moments that strongly suggest he does, at this point, have a functioning core.

This rock attack is, I hope, one of those moments, or else Jin Chan is a total pussy, getting knocked back by landscape gravel.

Next, Wei Wuxian shows Jin Ling the super-secret move known as "arm twisting," which Jin Ling, as an only child, has never encountered before.

Anyone with siblings is very familiar with this move.

Because this is The Untamed, this move should be executed with extra spinning whenever possible.

Jin Ling learns the move right away, and uses it to win the scuffle.

Avuncular

After the fight, Wei Wuxian sits with Jin Ling for a chat, and gives him the classic uncle advice "have as many fights as possible while you're young, because when you're older you'll have to be mature and get along with people."

I love Wei Wuxian so much.

For contrast, Jin Ling says that Jin Guangyao tells him not to get in fights. This makes Wei Wuxian seem like the cooler elder, but it also has a more sinister element, of Jin Guangyao holding Jin Ling back. Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian grew up constantly fighting with each other--sparring as well as informal fights, presumably. And their cultivation was super strong, partly as a result of that.

Wei Wuxian takes the opportunity to tell Jin Ling that he's not in love with Qin Su any more, because he's transferred his affections to someone else. Obviously Hanguang-Jun is the someone else, given that they've been inseparable for weeks. To keep Jin Ling from yelling while he explains, he clamps his hand over Jin Ling's mouth.

The thing is, in order to effectively clamp your hand over someone's mouth, there has to be something behind them--a wall, the mattress, your own torso, or something else solid. Otherwise they can just jerk their head backwards to get away from your hand. Or they can stand up and walk away, even.

Jin Ling, hilariously, does not realize this, and spends a ridiculously long time sitting still and making angry faces while Wei Wuxian rests his hand on his face.

Spy Game

Later that night, Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji get ready for some shenanigans.

Not the sexy kind, alas, just some paperman snooping.

Wei Wuxian, because he's facing serious danger, is feeling extra playful and cute, and he takes time to goof around with Lan Wangji before getting down to business.

In paperman form, he's able to do some things that the censors overlook, including tugging on Lan Wangji's headband and apparently blowing him a kiss. In the book and the donghua, he catches onto Lan Wangji's lip on his way down his face, too.

One thing that's kind of muted in the live action as compared to the novel is how much Lan Wangji enjoys Wei Wuxian's childish and playful behavior. Lan Wangji never got to be playful as a child, but with Wei Wuxian he can cut loose--which he does mostly in the sack or when they're drinking together. But even when he stays in control of himself, he likes Wei Wuxian's silliness.

He tells Paper-Xian, tenderly, to be very careful, before he sends him on his way.

The Adventures of Paperman

The CGI department outdoes itself with paperman, making an animated character so adorable I'd be happy to watch a whole episode of him.

Paper-Xian sneaks into JGY's study and pokes around, finding an empty envelope. Then he listens and watches while Qin Su stumbles in, retching.

She's followed closely by Jin Guangyao; they proceed to have an absolutely fucking endless argument in which the words "sister," "brother," "incest" "rapist dad" are never said, instead using vagueburger phrasing like "this matter."

Jin Guangyao does freely admit to killing their kid, though, and wants to know who told Qin Su about it so he can kill them, too. She won't tell him, shockingly.

Jin Guangyao ends the fight by putting a paralysis spell on his wife and then making her go to sleep with another spell, which is the cultivator equivalent of saying "I've said what I had to say and I need some space."

He takes her into a secret room where he is also keeping a bunch of talisman-protected stuff and a shockingly small number of books.

Seriously, as a person who has way too many books, I am personally offended by the way Jin Guangyao wastes shelf space in his secret room.

As Paper-Xian sneaks around the room, Jin Guangyao helpfully pulls aside the curtain covering the shelf with Nie Mingjue's head on it, so he can grouse at NMJ for (figuratively) haunting him. Seriously? Dude, you keep a guy's head on your bookshelf, he gonna haunt ya.

The episode ends with Paper-Xian bowing (adorably) to Nie Mingjue, and then sitting laying on his face, which would make BOTH Lan brothers jealous if they found out.

Soundtrack: Ring the Alarm, by Beyonce; Blister in the Sun, by the Violent Femmes

#the untamed #ooc wei wuxian #possessed wei wuxian #the untamed gifs #restless rewatch the untamed #the untamed meta #canary3d-original #ep40 #YOLO #YOLT if you're wei wuxian

[winterprince601]

i'm honestly fine, it's just the way that in episode 1 of the untamed wwx has his first lwj flashback looking at lan sizhui. yeah, he instantly subconsciously recognises the hand lwj has had in raising him. wonder how many times lwj had the exact same flashbacks looking at wen yuan's smile as he brought him up. makes me think about how lwj named him sizhui for his longing for wwx and the first thing wwx does when he sees him is long for lwj. he's playing wangxian like 5 minutes later, by the way. no it's all normal - they poured their love for each other into him. he's *their* child, an amalgamation of the best they saw in each other.

#oops sorry to the asoiaf followers #i promise #that is still the main fandom of this blog #i just need to get this off my chest #the untamed #cql #wei wuxian #wei ying #wwx #lan wangji #lan zhan #wangxian #lan sizhui #lan yuan #wen yuan #cql meta #the untamed meta #ouch

[pastelcheckereddreams]

Finally ready to talk about how Nie Huaisang’s revelation of his Sect’s immoral sacrifices to the Sword Spirit in Fatal Journey directly calls back to the main show’s overarching plot re: the vilification of the entire Wen clan, and the subsequent persecution of Wei Wuxian for attempting to stand up for the Dafan Wen sect.

Most notably, this parallel occurs as Nie Huaisang challenges his brother on why the Nie can heartlessly sacrifice human beings for the sake of controlling the sword spirit:

["This is not balance, but sacrificing flesh and blood."]

I don’t think I can even try to describe how this line so perfectly frames the ideological argument of the value of human life against some higher measure of worth. Especially as Zonghui tries to reason that:

["Those corpses belong to evil men."]

To the contrary, this only serves to strengthen Nie Huaisang’s conviction, because it doesn’t matter to him if they were good or evil. He looks straight into his older brother’s eyes as he counters:

["Aren't they human beings?"]

Consider the weight of the entire chronological plot of MDZS, of Wei Wuxian’s character arc, until this moment:

How, at this point in the main story’s time-skip, Nie Huaisang may still be grieving the loss of his friend and trying to reconcile his experience of Wei-xiong's character with the reputation of Yiling Laozu - and how that reputation was both built up and torn down by the very Sect leaders who remain in power: his brother included.  

Consider how Nie Huaisang, in this moment, may remember that his dear friend stood up against everyone - again, the Nie included - when he dared speak out against this same polarised judgement of good and evil, and how Wei-xiong died for it.

And so now, here, Nie Huaisang finally dares to ask - 

“Are you qualified for deciding their fate?”

Of course, at this point, we know that Nie Mingjue himself was a young leader newly minted by war, trying to balance the welfare of his clan against the will of the more powerful sects, and that (more pertinent to the plot of Fatal Journey) he is simply trying to maintain Nie tradition and carry out the role he has been taught to assume since childhood.

But just like his friend before him (and with a fair amount of desperation, considering this might very well be the moment Nie Huaisang fully comprehends the consequences of Dage’s illness - that he will eventually, and is already, sacrificing himself for the same end) Nie Huaisang dares to ask his brother, “Even if [our ancestors] are wrong, you would follow their lead?”

This scene is, of course, much more than an echo of past prejudices from the war against the Wen. It becomes a question of Nie Mingjue’s sanity - how much his illness is influencing his perception of reality, and how it not only perpetuates the prejudices from the war, but also actively harms the Nie by exposing the skewed morals at the core of their clan identity.

But that aside, it is this conflict of ideology that Nie Huaisang exposes which brings us right back to Wei Wuxian, and his stand against the main Sects and their systematic prejudice. In this moment, Nie Huaisang recognises that same flaw, and calls it out in his brother - not only for his current actions, but (with some internal, existential horror) for the crimes of their ancestors the Nie are built upon: sacrificing human beings in order to maintain a fallacy of harmony that is ultimately corrupt.

I wonder if Nie Huaisang would later think back on this moment and grieve in understanding for his friend.

I wonder if his choices from then on - from this moment of Fatal Journey to the resurrection of Wei Wuxian, and further - Nie Huaisang's actions were partially guided by the example of Wei Wuxian.

Am I thinking about a demonic cultivator Nie Huaisang now? Yes absolutely.

I could go on, but I’m gunna stop here. I’m just so full of feelings for the character growth of Nie Huaisang in Fatal Journey.

#nikkiwrites #character analysis #character parallels #nie huaisang #wei wuxian #cql meta #the untamed meta #character meta #nhs meta #nie clan #nie sect #qinghe nie #nie mingjue #sword sacrifice hall #xinglu ridge #nikkiwatches #the untamed: fatal journey #world building #fatal journey

[symphonyofsilence]

I'm never getting over the symbolism of Jin Guangyao's coffin being sealed under the weight of Meng Shi's fallen statue! As if His fate had already been sealed by his mother's profession from the beginning and no matter how high he climbed it would always come to this!

And finally, he got crushed and buried under the weight that had been on him all his life. When all he ever wanted to do was to cherish his mother. He built a temple for her and made a statue of her as a god but in the end, he ended up in Meng Shi's coffin sealed by Meng Shi's statue, in what was once the brothel in which they both were abused.

#jin guangyao #meng yao #meng shi #mdzs #Cql #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #the grandmaster of demonic cultivation #my two cents #mdzs meta

[sorrowschengmei]

things i HATE that fandom gets wrong about Xue Yang

Xue Yang: 'you're the FOUNDER, i'm not as good as you, i need your help, my friend is a better actor than me, i'm just a tiny cultivator, i'm just a delinquent' 

Fanon: yeah his self esteem is ENORMOUS. he thinks he's THE BEST. he's BOASTFUL. literally a HS jock

Xue Yang: depressed and injured lasts HOURS in a fight with THE HANGUANG JUN, teaches himself cultivation, develops spiritual tools, observant and quick witted

Fanon: hahaha he's the dumb one right? everyone can trick him and he can't study bc he only thinks of murder and candy

Xue Yang: drops his entire lifestyle to live with bf, forgets he has the most powerful spiritual tool in hands, just LEAVES when he's tired of working for Wen Sect

Fanon: he's a calculating mastermind. every step he takes is premetidated. he orchestrates year-long plans of revnge

Xue Yang: flirts with every male aristocrat he knows, leaves and joins sects like he changes clothes, 'i have no intent of dominating others'

Fanon: he's SO worried about his reputation and saving face, bc he wants to dominate the cultivation world and be evil! mwahahaha!  

Xue Yang: kill count consists in abuser+family, sect of dude who wanted to kill him, ableist peasants, contract kills, more than once avoids killing other disabled people

Fanon: his pastime is KILLING! he kills for FUN! he wakes up and thinks >:) murder!!  

  Xue Yang: always laughing, trying to be social, making jokes, playing pranks even with his enemies, chatty, loud, optimistic to delusional levels

Fanon: he likes to be ALONE. he's BROODY. he's DARK. his tough life made him reclusive and bitter. he's scared of social interaction.

#xue yang #the untamed #the untamed meta #xue yang meta #Sorrowful Thoughts

[jetkast]

the flavors of gay thoughts and repression in wangxian are the most fun

LWJ: loud gay thoughts on the inside; enormity of my desire disgusts me; oh god he's hot oh no; repress repress repress; no one will know so long as I don't make eye contact with anyone ever again, especially xiongzhang; my purpose in life is to be pure and noble, not be gay do crime; peace and tranquility, meditation and silence, once familiar, now empty, but at least they remain; I will simply be absent of desire as far as anyone is concerned and it will be fine;

WWX: gay thoughts but for the meme, they are universally true thoughts, regardless of gender, ok, shidi; if I flirt with everyone, no one will know that one man gets the True Flirt, including myself; if I keep moving and talking and laughing then I can live head empty no thoughts as fate intended; when you think about it, like when you really consider, like I'm just saying; look at me look at me look at me, need it need it need it; did I mention it was for the meme because it seems you are taking it seriously; why are you tying that, you won't even listen, what will you do to me~~

#mdzs #mxtx #wangxian #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #meta #gay thoughts #lan wangji #wei wuxian #lan zhan #wei ying #comphet #kind of #just vibes basically

[khattikeri]

one of my favorite things about mdzs is that for how heavily its plot involves politics of classism and misogyny... even the characters most directly impacted by it can't and don't free themselves from it. literally the closest exception is mianmian.

meng yao being the "son of a whore" wasn't some sort of commie awakening for him that led him to wanting everyone to be socially equal. he played the political game, climbed the ladders, sucked up to and backstabbed and murdered people, including other prostitutes who actually had nothing to do with how he and his mother were treated at the brothel he grew up in.

he put in so much extra excessive effort for even a fraction of the same respect that members of gentry cultivation clans got. and he did deserve to be treated more humanely! but he feeds into the exact same system that created him, leading to his own undoing.

his efforts were for a fragile upward mobility that was never going to hold up. he never surpassed his origins nor did he empower others in similar stations, because the society he lives in is not one that would accept that.

the second he got caught and all those crimes exposed, he was scapegoated to hell and back, replacing wei wuxian as society's terrible one-sidedly evil boogeyman overnight.

speaking of not-quite male gentry, i think it's interesting that wei wuxian explicitly doesn't try to climb the ladders in BOTH lives, knowing full well that anything he does will be punished just for the sheer fact that he is wei wuxian.

wei wuxian is scolded for giving intelligent and correct answers in school. lan wangji does the same and is praised.

wei wuxian occasionally lounges around with fellow disciples and is punished. jiang cheng does the same and mostly escapes.

wei wuxian refuses to carry his sword around in public (after losing his golden core, which nobody knows) and is scorned as an arrogant upstart. nie huaisang has been doing the EXACT SAME THING for YEARS and nobody bats an eye.

unlike jin guangyao, wei wuxian knew subconsciously from the start that his acceptance was superficial and that he could be cast out any time. when he was 10 and recently taken in by the jiangs, he canonically would not eat or use "too much" food and water because he thought they'd find him a nuisance for "wasting their things" and kick him back out.

now away from just the classism, yu ziyuan is a proud and strong noblewoman in a society that belittles and derides women for everything they do. her strong cultivation doesn't matter. she's victim to the vicious rumors of her husband loving another woman who is strong like her but apparently had a more likeable personality.

it doesn't matter even if jiang fengmian didn't cheat or that wei wuxian is wei changze's son with cangse sanren; yu ziyuan can't bear with the humiliation of herself (and by extension her children) not being "good enough". she's ridiculed for "failing" in that one duty as a wife, mother, and woman.

she lashes out and takes out that anger on everyone present for years, giving her children lasting trauma and also being a key element in how the jiang family and yunmeng jiang sect are effectively wiped out at the hands of the wen clan.

madam jin doesn't even have a name outside of the fact that she's married to jin guangshan. i don't even remember reading anything that indicates if she's a strong or weak cultivator, or what, which in itself proves that to most people, it doesn't matter. she's "just" a woman.

of course she's angry at her husband's affairs and all the bastard children they bring in. but she also can't do anything about them, so she lashes out at the few people she can: servants. non-cultivators, probably. those very same bastard children.

shoutout to meng yao getting shoved down a flight of stairs at age fourteen, because if madam jin tried that move against her husband instead, it would make her lose even more face, which as a noblewoman she'd never do.

and that's not getting into how jiang yanli is consistently sidelined for being physically weak.

that's not getting into how mianmian was actually a good cultivator, but was mocked by everyone around her for trying to stand up for wei wuxian when everyone was turning on him. how everyone scoffed at luo qingyang's words as "just some lovesick woman" who "obviously wants to marry or bed him since he saved her".

luo qingyang is the only one of these characters who HASN'T died. she didn't play society's games like jin guangyao. she didn't dig her heels in confidence of her own abilities like wei wuxian.

she didn't bitterly lash out like yu ziyuan and madam jin. she didn't gently accept it like jiang yanli.

she just LEFT.

she married an ordinary merchant and cultivates separately from mainstream cultivation society, and therein found her own peace and happiness.

mxtx doesn't bother with particularly class conscious or feminist vocabulary to hand-hold readers into understanding these disparities, but that choice highlights them & the deeply entrenched politics of their society even more. i really love it.

#keri chats #mdzs #mo dao zu shi #long post #mdzs spoilers #im novel only but still tagging. #the untamed #cql #yeah yeah everyone's written meta addressing this aspect of the story BUT I THINK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIMEEEEE #maybe i just don't get to read a ton of books often; esp not ones that mirror my own culture. but it's just so. soooooo. augh #the fact that the setting itself enables so much of the tragedy in mdzs... which is true of all tragedies but STILL... #this isn't even getting into qin su and the power imbalance w her and jgy post-reveal... man. #man. so much going on here. man #THIS POST IS MESSY AND BARELY EDITED BUT IF U READ IT. ILU

[lgbtlunaverse]

What kind of saber is baxia anyway?

I love my bloodthirsty princess of a cursed blade, and in my heart of hearts i am nothing but a sword nerd, so i've been extremely fascinated by Baxia and how we know frustratingly little about what she actually looks like!

I mean, look at bichen, right?

Bichen in the donghua:

Bichen in the drama:

They're clearly not exactly the same. The scabbards are different, and the guards have a different shape. But these are recognizably different iterations on one theme, right? Thin jian with a white grip silver guard, light blue tassel and silver mounting accents on the scabbard.

Now this is baxia in the donghua:

And baxia in the drama:

????????

THAT'S A COMPLTELY DIFFERENT WEAPON

it doesn't stop there either, the audio drama is kind enough to give us ANOTHER COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BAXIA

pretty! But how is that he same sword??

And when we go back to the novel, we get very little information on her appearance other than the fact that her blade is tinted red with all the blood she's absorbed. Which none of these designs incorporate.

This is not a dig on the designs itself, they're all quite gorgeous in their own right and i'm going to spend a while discussing all of them! Because isn't it fascinating how, since we know little about novel baxia beyond "saber" all of these designs ended up so different? What kinds of sabers are these, anyway?

So, a chinese aber, aka a "dao" (刀) just means a sword that has only one cutting side. As opposed to a jian, which has two.

You can see how that leaves a LOT of room for variaton.

I've actually seen some people get confused because Huaisang's saber in the untsmed is thin and quite straight, making it superficially resemble the jian more than drama!baxia, but it is still clearly a saber!

See? only one cutting blade!

This, to me looks a lot like a tang dynasty hengdao

credit to this blog for providing his image and being a great source for all this going forward.

TANGENT: during all this I found out the english wikipedia page for dao is WRONG! Ths is what they about the tang hengdao!

So that sounds like the hengdao was called that during the sui dynasty, but then, after that, started being called a peidao, right?

WRONG

I LOOKED AT THE SOURCE THEY USED AND IT SAYS THIS:

IT WAS CALLED THE PEIDOU UNTIL THE SUI DYNASTY, AT WHICH POINT IT WAS CALLED A HENGDAO. Which would carry over to the Tang dynasty. This was the source wikipedia linked! and it says something else than they say it does!

Anyone know how to edit a wikipedia article?

ANYWAY

BACK TO BAXIA

Since we're already at the drama, let's look at drama baxia: She's also straight! the general term for straight-backed saber is Zhibeidao, but that's a modern collector's term, and doesn't really say anything about which historical kind of saber baxia could be based on. Another meta i found on the drama nie sabers already went on some detail here.

I'm gonna expand on that a little: The kinds of historical straight-backed sabers we see resemble the hengdao a lot more than they do baxia. They don't go to their point as harsly as she does (she's basically a cleaver!) and they're all way skinnier.

No, my personal theory is that instead of being based on any kind of historical sword, drama!baxia is based on a Nandao.

I mean, come on, look at it!

Baxia!

The Nandao... isn't actually a historical sword. It was invented for Wushu forms. There's a really fascinating article about its conception, but that's why the swords in the images look a little thin and flimsy. Wushu swords are very flexible and light, they're dance props, not weapons to fight with. There are actual steel versions of Nandao, but they're recreations of the prop, not the other way around.

So That's one way in which Baxia differes from the Nandao: she's actually a real weapon. The other is that, as you can see above, the nandao has an S-shaped guard. Baxia doesn't. She's also much more elaborately decorated, of course. Because she's a princess.

Now: audio drama baxia!

This is much easier. with that flare at the tip?

Oh baby that's a niuweidao, all the way!

There are more sabers with that kind of curved handle, but the broad tip is really charcteristic of the niuweidao. The Niuweidao is also incredibly poplar in modern media, often portrayed as a historical sword, but it originated i nthe 19th century! And it was actually never used by the military!

That's right, the Niuweidao was pretty much exclusively a civilian weapon! That makes its use here anachronistic, but so is the nandao, and considering that the origin story of the Nie is that they use Dao intead of Jian because their ancestors were butchers, portraying them with a weapon historically reserved for rebels and common people instead of the imperial military is actually very on theme!

Finally, Donghua/Manhua baxia. These two designs are so similar I'm going to treat them as one and the same for now.

Unlike both previous baxias, The long handle makes it clear this baxia is a two-handed weapon, though Nie Mingjue is absolutely strong enough to wield her with one hand anyway. Normal rules don't count for cultivators.

Now, this is where things get tricky, because there are a lot of words for long two-handed sabers. And a lot of them are interchangable! This youtube video about the zhanmadao, one of the possible sabers this baxia could be based on, goes a little into just how confusing this can get. This kind of blade WAS actually in military use for many centuries, making it the most historically accurate of all the baxias. But because of that it also has several names and all of those names can also refer to different kinds of blades depending on what century we're in.

So here's our options: i'm going to dismiss the wodao and miandao, because these were explicitly based on japanese sword design, and as we can see manhua baxia has that very broad tip, so that won't work

(Example of a wodao. According to my sources Miaodao is really just the modern common term for the wodao, and the changdao, and certain kinds of zhanmadao... do you see how quickly this gets confusing?)

Next option: Zhanmadao.

Zhanmadao stands for "horse chopping saber" so... yeah they were anti-cavalry weapons. meant to be able to cut the legs and/or necks of horses. That definitely sounds like a weapon Nie Mingjue would wield. But if you watched that youtube video i linked above, you'll know the standardized Qing dinasty Zhanmadao looked very different from earlier versions. It was inspired by the japanese odachi, and more resembles the miandao than its ealrier heftier counteprarts.

Earlier Ming dynasty Zhanmadao on the other hand were... basically polearms. the great ming military blog spot, another wonderful source, says these are essentially a kind of podao/pudao (朴刀) which looked like this

Now that blade looks a lot like baxia, but the handle is honestly too long. Donghua!baxia straddles the line between sword an polearm a little, but while zhanmadao have been used to refer to both long-handled swords and polerarms, this was undeniably a polearm, not a sword.

If you want to know what researching this was like, I found a picture of this blade on pinterest-- labeled as a "two-handed scimitar"-- and the comment section was filled with people arguing about whether this was a Pudao, Wudao, Zhanmadao, Dadao, Guandao, or a japanese Nagita.

So... that's how it was going. This has kept me up until 2 AM multiple times.

However! Thanks to this article on the great ming military blog I found out there have historically been pudao blades with shorter handles!

Specifically, Ming dynasty military writer Cheng Ziyi created a modified version of the pudao to work with the Dan Fao Fa Xuan technixues-- aka technqiues for a two-handed saber, which would alter heavily influence Miaodao swordmanship-- thereby, as the article points out, essentially merging the cleaver-polearm type Zhanmadao with the later two-handed japanese-inspired design.

This is the illustration for the Wu Bei Yao Lue (武備要略) a Ming dynasty military manual

This blade shape in the illustration doesn't match Baxia exactly, but since it's a lengthened Pudao-like blade and we've seen above that those can match Donghua Baxia's shape, i'm gonna say that calling Baxia a Zhanmadao with a two-handed grip isn't all that innacurate!

However, because all of these terms are so intertwined, there are a dozen other things you could call her that would be about equally correct.

To show that, here's a lightning round of other potential Baxia candidates:

Dadao (大刀)

Which are generally one-handed and too short. However!

Another youtube video i found of someone training with a Zhanmadao that resembles baxia a little also calls it a "shuangshoudai dao" (雙手带 刀) shuangshou means two-handed, and while 雙手带 seems to refer to a longer handled weapon, when looking for a shuangshou dao or shuangshou dadao (双手大刀) we find a lot more baxia-resembling blades like here and here

I also found that, while the cleaver-like Dadao is strictly a product of the 20th centuy, since dadao just means big sword or big knife, it has been used to refer to loads of different weapons! Some people could've called the zhanmadao and pudao "dadao" during the Ming dynasty as well.

Another potential baxia candidate that mandarin mansion classifies as similar to the later dadao (though longer, as seen in the illustration below) is the "Kuanren Piandao"

Which piqued my interest because this diagram classifying different tpye of Dao:

Claims that a Kuanrenbiandao (diferent spelling, same sword) is the same as a modern day Zhanmadao.

(So once again, all of these terms are interchangable)

Another opton Is the Chuanmeidao/Chuanweidao (船尾刀) below you can see a diagram, based on the Qing dynasty green standard army regulation, of blades all officially classified as types of "pudao"

The top middle is the Kuanren Piandao, and bottom left is the Chuanweidao.

Both of these have a lot of baxia-like qualities.

So there you go! live action baxia is based on a Nandao, audio drama baxia is based on a Niuweidao, and Manhua/donghua baxia is some kind of two-handed Zhanmadao/Pudao/Dadao depending on how you want to look at it.

I'm honestly surprised no one has made the creative decision to portray Baxia as a Jiuhuandao, aka 9 ringed broadsword yet.

I mean look at it! Incredibly imposing. Would make for a great Baxia imo. (@ upcoming mdzs manga and mobile game: take notes!)

#mdzs #mdzs meta #nie mingjue #baxia #cql #the untamed #long post #I HAVE SO MANY TABS OPEN. FEEL MY SUFFERING #I understand that asking a gigantic region with thousands of years of rich history and many different subcultures #to have one standard naming convention is basically impossible #But could they do it anyway? for me? 🥺 #i also want to buy one of these... so bad #or even just a plastic trainer so i can practice the techniques #but i know that once i start buying swords i'm not gonna stop until my money runs out #Being a sword nerd is a very dangerous not phyisically but for your wallet