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#theaetetus
the-first-door · 4 months
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i miss theaetetus
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puckwritesstuff · 1 year
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National Poetry Month - Day 1
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I’m gonna try doing some poetry since I’m between projects at the moment. Here’s my attempt at a blackout poem based on The Theaetetus by Plato.
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sabakos · 1 year
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The easy and simple answer to someone who asks ‘What is clay?’ is that it is earth mixed with liquid. (Not necessarily water: it could be wine or something else; so it is specific enough to define it like this as earth mixed with liquid.) It is not necessary to add whose clay it is, the brick-maker’s or the stove-maker’s. Aristotle criticizes these kinds of definition, as that of snow, that it is frozen water, and of clay, that it is earth mixed with liquid, and of wine, that it is putrid water (so Empedocles: ‘water putrefied in wood’). For snow is not water, he says; nor is clay earth, nor is wine water any more. ‘One should not account for a thing,’ he says, ‘by those things of which the genus is not truthfully said, but by as many things as the genus given is truthfully predicated.’ Let it be granted that, in the case of wine, the genus is not truthfully said to be water. (Someone could say that even if we allow that it formerly was water, it now no longer is, quite apart from the fact that it will not turn back into water.) How, though, can we deny that clay is earth which has been affected in a certain way by liquid? For it remains earth, which is why, when the liquid has been dried up, it will be earth again. In the case of wind, he wondered whether one should say ‘air in movement’ adding ‘if, after all, one has to agree that air is moved’. He should have said the same in the case of clay: the definitions are given on a similar basis.
Ancient Greece was a cool place that I hope to never visit because everyone who lived there was insane.
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indigovigilance · 5 months
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The Astrologer Who Fell into a Well
Okay guys, I’m not sure this counts as Good Omens meta but you read it and then you tell me.
Approximately 626-545 B.C., there was this guy named Thales of Miletus. He was, among other things, an astrologer. He calculated the equinoxes and solstices, and even predicted solar eclipses. He made other important contributions to math and science.
But he’s famous for falling into a well.
Thales was studying the stars and gazing into the sky, when he fell into a well, and a jolly and witty Thracian servant girl made fun of him, saying that he was crazy to know about what was up in the heavens while he could not see what was in front of him beneath his feet.
This story was recorded in Plato’s Theaetetus, and corroborated by other contemporaries.
This embarrassing story was reimagined and incorporated into various works following, including Aesop's Fables, as well as a 1531 work called Book of Emblems, a collection of moral stories. The illustration of the astronomer, about to trip over a block because he is looking up at the stars, accompanies a poem about Icarus, the angel who flew too close to the sun. The astronomer, like his angelic parallel, serves as a cautionary tale against focusing on one’s desires and not staying grounded in reality.
Anyways. If David Tennant doesn’t fall into a body of water at some point in S3:
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I’ll be a little disappointed.
Unless the swan dive into the pool of boiling sulfur was supposed to already serve as that allusion.
...or this:
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perkwunos · 1 year
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In [Plato’s Theaetetus], Socrates tells Theaetetus of a dream he once had wherein he had learned of a theory of explanation by which all things are described as complexes of simpler elements, themselves complexes of still simpler elements. This reduction continues until the simplest elements are apprehended, at which point a ‘complete and true’ explanation of the initial object is achieved. It is only then, proposes Socrates, that one can be said to possess true knowledge ― i.e., explanation ― of the object. Theaetetus eagerly accepts this epistemology, but Socrates advises caution; he explains that in his dream, the most fundamental elements are in principle incapable of description by this epistemology, given that they contain no simpler parts. Therefore, the most fundamental elements are immutable, necessary, and unfortunately, unknowable. How, asks Socrates, can the unknowable be the foundation and ultimate justification of knowledge?
Michael Epperson, “Bridging Necessity and Contingency in Quantum Mechanics” from Physics and Speculative Philosophy
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sanguinaryrot · 6 days
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I have to finish reading theaetetus for book club and I have like 15 pages left. then I will perhaps work on a zine or draw Otto
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balzacianhours · 3 months
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Theodorus here was drawing some figures for us in illustration of roots, showing that squares containing three square feet and five square feet are not commensurable in length with the unit of the foot, and so, selecting each one in its turn up to the square containing seventeen square feet and at that he stopped. Now it occurred to us, since the number of roots appeared to be infinite, to try to collect them under one name, by which we could henceforth call all the roots (Plato, Theaetetus 147d-e).
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disir-ex-machina · 8 months
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"In my own approaches to judging the novel, I have favored Masters’ reading of the book, and in particular, his reading of the judge as trickster. My preference for this one name is due to the fact that Blood Meridian is replete with examples that link the judge with the mythological trickster figure. Since this reading of the judge has already been treated extensively by other critics—Masters and Stinson, and most recently, Scott Yarbrough in “Tricksters and Lightbringers in McCarthy’s Post-Appalachian Novels”—it is not necessary to repeat the arguments here in any detail. The appeal of the trickster archetype for a reading of the judge is not merely due to the ample textual evidence identifying the judge with this role, but because it seems—and I use this word advisedly—to resolve the problem of how the judge is both one (Judge Holden) and many other things simultaneously (linguist, dancer, naturalist, warrior, judge . . .). In an essay entitled “Mapping the Characteristics of Mythical Tricksters: A Heuristic Guide,” William Hynes provides a transcultural typology of the mythical trickster figure in relation to six major characteristics: (1) “ambiguous and anomalous personality of the trickster”; (2) “deceiver/ trick player”; (3) “shape-shifter”; (4) “ situation-invertor”; (5) “messenger/imitator of the gods”; (6) “sacred/lewd bricoleur” (Hynes 34). It can be shown that the judge fulfills each of these characteristics during the course of the novel. The first, third, and fifth characteristics demonstrate why, should we be forced to assign the judge a single role, the trickster archetype is so attractive: the archetype inherently makes a one of the disparate. Thus when Stinson objects to Masters’ reading of the judge because he identifies him with many roles, it is easy to reply that this is just what tricksters do: they are role-players (Stinson 12). But I do not present this in order to contest Stinson’s disagreement with Masters, nor her reading of the book. After all, the quotation she includes in her essay—that “[b]ecause the Fool has no fixed number” in the Tarot Trumps, he “is free to travel at will, often upsetting the established order [of the cards] with his pranks” (Stinson 13)—gestures to the very same qualities that Masters and I maintain are important about the trickster.
My reason for dwelling on the trickster archetype in this way is for another purpose: to draw attention to a problem, a very old problem, and one that is encapsulated in the question posed to Theaetetus in The Sophist : “Now does it strike you that when one who is known by the name of a single art appears to be the master of many, there is something wrong with this appearance?” (Plato 232). Thus the mere assignation of the role of trickster to Judge Holden is no better than any other assignation, for far from solving the problem, it merely re-presents it in the very presentation that it is."
-from "“What's he a judge of?” The Effacement of Agency and an Ethics of Reading in Cormac McCarthy's Blood Meridian", Joshua Comyn
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one of my hot takes is that you don't need to read any literature if you don't want to (re: "great books" debate) the only minimum should be listening to at least one overview of western philosophy and read a book that at least covers the arguments/theories of plato - enlightenment. even if all you read was plato vs. classics of literature, history books, modern philosophy, etc. if you truly took the time to think through just one classic philosophy book that would 10x more powerful than just simply "reading" 100 books with out study, context or critical thinking.
critical thinking is so much more important than just fiction, or listening (not that these things are unimportant) but logic, analysis and developing your own personal skills of argumentation is what people need. the examined life is integral to living in a democracy, and you have to do it on your own, no one can tell you all the answers and everything can be questioned (truth will always hold up to scrutiny).
people get really focused on literature but philosophy, foundational texts of science, sacred texts are criminally underrated when they can be some of the most transformative books out there. in fact many periods of history were anti-literature (Schopenhauer, Napoleon, Plato) because it contains and feeds elements of narcissism, ennui, and fantasy as well as the danger of simply reading not engaging with a text. fiction since it's an art form also contains an element of taste so great art to one is boring to another.
also it doesn't have to be "western" ideas, ideally pick something time tested because there is power in foundational human writing from the Upanishads to Theaetetus. and it could be just one book too, reading one book closely your whole life could be more impactful than speeding through a bunch of watered down pop-philosophy books that keep you in the confines of your "reality".
you should read books that completely change your world so that there is a you before and a you after
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sonbirblog · 2 years
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küçük bir soru 7: şairler sokrat'ı neden sever? 6: bunu düşünmemiştim. zaten aklıma nereden gelecekse... neden? 7: daimon*u doğru anladıklarından. 6: bir saniye bir saniye, pek alaka kuramadım. daimonun, yani vicdanın; şairlerin sokrat'ı sevmesiyle ne ilgisi var? 7: hmm, sen de yanlış anlayanlardansın demek? 6: ha, şairler için 'doğru anladıklarından' demiştin. eh ben de yanlış anladığıma göre, konu 'daimon.' yani iç ses. e yani vicdan. nesini yanlış anlıyorum? 7: istersen konuya bir düğüm daha atalım ama bağlamdan kopmayacağız merak etme. 6: tamam. 7: sokrat kendini neye benzetiyordu? 6: at sineğine. 7: başka? 6: bir de annesinin ebe olmasından dolayı onun yöntemini 'doğurtma' olarak adlandırırlar işte. 7: theaetetus diyaloğu'nu hatırla. 6: yok, gelmiyor. 7: kendini de annesi gibi ebeye benzetiyordu hani. 6: tamam, hatırladım. üç yönden de kadın ebelerden ayrıldığını söylüyordu. 7: peki bu sokrat efendi, ebe olup erkeklerin aklından ne doğurtacaktı? 6: daimonu işte. yani konu her ne ise sorular sorarak bilginin aslında konuştuğu kişinin kendi içinde olduğu düşüncesiyle... falan işte ya, yorma beni. 7: peki diyelim... ya da demeyelim, örneği var: menon diyaloğu'nda okuma yazması olmayan bir köleye geometri sorusu çözdürüyordu. 6: bu artık klişeleşmiş hikâyelerden nereye varacaksın sahiden merak ediyorum. 7: yani diyorum ki: daimon vicdansa, bilgi de insanın içindeyse, bilginin vicdanda olduğunu mu söylüyordu sokrat? 6: hmm. hayır... sen bana sokratik yöntem mi uyguluyorsun? 7: hahaha! hayır, sadece konu o şekilde gidiyor. ee ne diyorsun? 6: ...tamam platon, daimonu sokrat'tan farklı ve daha geniş bir anlamda kavramlaştırdı ama konumuz bu değil. bugün anladığımız anlamda daimonun vicdana karşılık gelmesi de mümkün değil. düşünüyorum... çünkü o hâlde sadece ahlakçı bir çerçeve çizmek gerekirdi. oysa sokrat bilginin kaynağı olarak da daimonu gösteriyordu. yani kabaca bu noktaya geliyorum. 7: 'kutsal iç ses' doğrudan böyle çevirdiğimizde taşlar biraz daha yerine oturmuyor mu? 6: evet. ama bu çeviri sana ait değil. daha önce de okumuştum. tabii konumuz bu da değil. daimon-kutsal iç ses... insana hem eğitim ve sınıf gözetmeksizin ihtiyacı olan bilgiyi ilham eden hem de doğru ile yanlışı ayırt edebilmesini... arete, burada devreye giriyor sanırım. 7: pekâlâ, artık ilk soruma geri dönmeden önceki son sorumu sorabilirim: insanın içinde ihtiyacı olan her bilgiyi veren bir sesin olduğuna dair, günümüz bilimi, felsefesi, dinleri ne diyor? 6: bunu topluca reddediyorlar sanırım. uzlaştıkları tek konu bu olabilir bak... 7: peki şairler sokrat'ı neden sever?
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allyouknowisalie · 6 days
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Plato never wrote the hinted-at sequel to the Theaetetus, Sophist, and Statesman, to have been called the Philosopher. I have long cherished the fantasy, anachronistic though it be, that in that work Socrates, questioning Aristotle, would have led him to admit that it is impossible to know whether one knows, and that if wisdom is the contrary state to wonder, then philosophy never ends.
Howard Stein
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juneability · 25 days
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currently reading, currently thinking:
moon of the crusted snow (waubgeshig rice)
i am deeply in love with the idea behind this book, and similarly enthralled with the execution. rice's writing feels down-to-earth, authentic, and appropriately tense. i had a book club meeting last friday for this book, and i enjoyed sharing my favourite aspect—which is the way we don't understand the cause of the main issue, and i predicted we never will. what with the disconnect reserves experience, and the disarray that the rest of the people and systems may not recover from, i don't expect any kind of explanation. and that's the most chilling part of all
a court of mist and fury (sarah j. maas)
all i can think about right now is how bothered i am by feyre. i understand that what she went through Under the Mountain was stressful and traumatic and unforgettable, but c'mon girl, lighten up. this is supposed to be my chill read right now. i just finished reading the first part... we're up at the house of wind, and feyre has done nothing but complain and bitch at rhys lmao
theaetetus (plato)
i took this book out of the library on a whim. i'm like 10 pages in, and though i like it very much, i don't know if i'm going to have time to finish it before i'll have to renew it. but yes, i'm enjoying the style of "conversation" about philosophy. it's like a more eloquent, less obscene version of the podcast i've been listening to (very bad wizards). i definitely think i'd like to read more of plato's works after this. i have had several thoughts on the content itself but it's been a hot minute since i cracked this book open.
to read (soon...!):
the catcher in the rye (j.d. salinger)
my best friend's namesake is the main character of this book, and he just reread it this year & told me he "gets it now." my boyfriend and i both have copies, so we're going to read it together once we have a little more time. i look forward to diving in!
the body keeps the score (bessel van der kolk)
i feel like i've heard about this book everywhere. i have relatively low expectations, because when a book is this popular, it might be appealing to an audience beyond those in the science of psychology. however, i've been meaning to read it, and it was a christmas gift from the aforementioned friend (a fellow psyc major).
swastika night (katharine burdekin)
i told a classmate in globalizations that i was an orwell fan, and he recommended this book. i enjoy my dystopias when they're done well or at least intriguing, and this one definitely looks like it will pique my fancy. the only problem is obtaining a copy—might be time to get a library card in my new city!
sustainable fossil fuels (mark jaccard)
another non-fiction, this book makes an argument for buying time before alternative energy. it's from 2006 so i don't know how useful it will be for me to read twenty years later, but that doesn't hinder my curiosity. i picked it up in a used bookstore two years ago and have been staring at it on my shelf ever since.
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galechives · 2 months
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They say that once when Thales was gazing upwards while doing astronomy, he fell into a well, and that a witty and charming Thracian serving-girl made fun of him for being eager to know the things in the heavens but failing to notice what was just behind him and right by his feet.
Plato, Theaetetus
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sabakos · 1 year
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By a strange series of events, you are put in charge of a university's gen Ed "philosophy" program; what reading do you assign?
So the responsible thing to do here would be to make a well-balanced list of books that covers the "History of Ideas" in the West from Homer to Heidegger. But that's a well-travelled path and I'm assuming that this strange series of events does not presume any sort of responsibility on my part.
So instead, I'm taking the opportunity to recruit a bunch of unwitting "Great Books" undergrads to revive a philosophical movement that died out in the 6th century when Justinian effectively banned it.
Year 1
In the first year, students will develop a mastery of the ancient greek language, with a focus on texts that cover broad topics that do not require much prior knowledge or background, using Simplicius' commentaries as textbooks that can provide any needed context.
Semester 1
Language
Hansen and Quinn - Greek: An Intensive Course
Liddell, Scott, and Jones - A Greek-English Lexicon
Xenophon - Anabasis, Hellenica, Cyropaedeia, Memorabilia
Herodotus - Histories
An Introduction to Logic
Porphyry - Isagoge
Aristotle - Categories, On Interpretation
Simplicius - Commentary on Aristotle's Categories
An Introduction to Ethics
Pythagoras - Golden Verses
Hierocles - Commentary on the Golden Verses
Epictetus - Enchiridion
Simplicius - Commentary on the Enchiridion of Epictetus
Semester 2
Language
Georg Autenreith - A Homeric Dictionary
Homer - Odyssey, Iliad
An Introduction to Platonism
Theon of Alexandria - Mathematics Useful for the Reading of Plato
Anonymous Prolegomena to Platonic Philosophy
Plato - Alcibiades I, Gorgias, Phaedo
Porphyry - Sententiae
An Introduction to Physics
Aristotle - Physics, On the Heavens
Simplicius - Commentary on Physics, Commentary on the Heavens
Year 2
In the second year, students will translate the major works of Euripides and Aristophanes and work their way through the majority of the Iamblichean curriculum. Readings may be supplemented by Plotinus' Enneads where relevant as time permits.
Semester 1
Language
Hesiod - Works and Days, Theogony
Homeric Hymns to Demeter, Apollo, Aphrodite, Hermes
Euripides - Alcestis, Medea, Hippolytus, Andromache, Hecuba
Aristophanes - The Acharnians, The Knights, The Clouds, The Wasps, Peace
Platonic Logic
Heraclitus - Fragments
Anonymous Commentary on the Theaetetus
Parmenides - The Way of Truth
Plato - Cratylus, Theatetus, Sophist, Statesman
An Introduction to Theology
Damascius - On First Principles
Aristotle - Metaphysics
Alexander - Commentary on Aristotle's Metaphysics
Syrianus - Commentary on Aristotle's Metaphysics
Semester 2
Language
Pindar - Odes
Euripides - Trojan Women, Phoenician Women, Orestes, The Bacchae
Aristophanes - Thesmophoriazusae, Lysistrata, The Birds, The Frogs
Menander - Dyskolos
Platonic Ethics
Plato - Philebus, Symposium, Phaedrus
Damascius - Lectures on the Philebus
Introduction to Pythagoreanism
Iamblichus - On Pythagoreanism
Nicomachus - Introduction to Arithmetic
Sallustius - On the Nature of the World and the Cosmos
Year 3
The third year focuses on the "Perfect" Dialogues - each semester consists of a single course focusing on a single major Platonic dialogue. Students will work their way through the Proclean commentaries on each and write their own commentary on the Parmenides.
Semester 1
Plato's Timaeus
Plutarch - On the Generation of the World-Soul in the Timaeus
Alcinous - Handbook of Platonism
Proclus - Elements of Physics
Plato - Timaeus
Anonymous - Timaeus of Locri
Proclus - Commentary on Timaeus
Semester 2
Plato's Parmenides
Proclus - Elements of Theology
Plato - Parmenides
Proclus - Commentary on Parmenides
Proclus - Platonic Theology
Year 4
Students will learn the basics of allegorical interpretation from Porphyry, Philo, and Cornutus, and then apply this knowledge to the plays of Aeschylus and Sophocles, using Proclus' Hymns, and work on the Republic as a model. This year also provides a brief background into the historical practice of theurgy.
Semester 1
Introduction to Allegorical Commentary
Porphyry - On the Cave of the Nymphs, Homeric Questions
Philo of Alexandria - Questions and Answers on Genesis
Cornutus - Compendium of Greek Theology
Introduction to Theurgy
Plutarch - On Isis and Osiris
Hermes Trismegistus - The Perfect Discourse, The Pupil of the Cosmos
Porphyry - Letter to Anebo
Iamblichus - On the Mysteries
Julian - Hymn to the Mother of the Gods
Semester 2
Political Philosophy
Plato - Republic
Proclus - Commentary on the Republic
Drama, Theurgy, and Allegory
Proclus - Hymns
Orphic Hymns
Aeschylus - Oresteia, Persians, Seven Against Thebes, Suppliants
Sophocles - Ajax, Antigone, Oedipus Rex, Philoctetes
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authormarialberg · 11 months
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Poetry Month Challenges Day 27: Wonder and Wisdom
Poetry Month Challenges Day 27: Wonder and Wisdom #poetry #photography #NaPoWriMo #dVerse #AtoZChallenge #PAD #abstractart
Wonder in Wisdom by Maria L. Berg 2023 Wonder & Wisdom Encyclopedia.com says wonder is “a state of mind excited by the perception of novelty or of something strange or not well understood. Both plato and aristotle speak of wonder as the point of origin for philosophy. In the Theaetetus, Socrates is recorded as saying, “Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder.”…
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"Wonder is the feeling of a philosopher, and philosophy begins in wonder."
— Socrates,Theaetetus
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