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cicadaknight · 1 year

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"if you’re gonna call seyka a mary sue, a flawless, overly positively portrayed character, don’t you kind of have to do that to almost all the sympathetic characters?" seyka has no flaws, she is totally right on what she is doing and why even if she is breaking the law and the executive is mean with and wrong on everything he does, thats very mary sue-ish not matter what anyone says, its exactly the same as aloy in the first game

i’m assuming this second anon is you as well so i’ll add it here:

"aloy is never in a true position of authority or power with seyka, and that’s in large part because of seyka’s personality and self-assurance." it wouldn't be as jarring if she wasnt truly the only one in the whole damn game who calls Aloy out for what she does or what she doesn't tell, but instead of doing this with the companions we know from the first game; the players are forced to endure a random character (that we dont have to care about) to have that attitude. or even with new characters, zo, kotallo or alva had a thousand better introductions, better developed friendships with aloy than her supposed first romantic choice

agree to disagree, anon.

i’m not sure who you mean by “mean with and wrong with everything he does.” Rheng or Londra? But regardless, I simply don’t agree that a character needs to be DEEPLY flawed to be compelling. Nor do I think they have to be a foil to the protagonist to be compatible? Which seems like some of the argument here. You’re gonna look me in the eyes and tell me that what makes you love Varl, Zo, Kotallo, Alva, Talanah, Erend, Petra, is that they’re wrong about shit or abrasive? You’re not drawn to their compassion, strength, or persistence in the face of unbeatable odds? Or that over time they question what they believe in and commit to believing in themselves and Aloy?

I DO find Seyka to be flawed. She’s not a self-insert Mary Sue lmao. She’s flawed in much the same way Varl or Kotallo are. She’s a soldier who will prioritize her duty to her tribe over common sense and safety. She believes she’s the only one who has what it takes to get shit done, she’s arrogant and cocky, loses her patience easily. I think she’s battling with insecurities about her sister, who’s an elevated and invaluable member of their expedition, by trying desperately to prove herself by saving her.

I think you are holding Seyka to an impossible standard. I’m not gonna change your mind if you just really don’t vibe with her. But like you said, it was jarring for you to see that chemistry and dynamic between a new character and Aloy. And that seems to be the crux of it. I’d be curious if you play it again with some time to digest everything, if you still feel as strongly?

To the second anon message about Seyka being the only one to push Aloy (in this case about what she does or doesn’t know) and that you have to “endure” that from a new character. Again, agree to disagree. I don’t think the other characters had inherently better relationships with Aloy.

I 100% think all of the companions challenge Aloy and push back on her. Aloy just rolls her eyes and ignores them unless she has no other choice. Zo refuses to let her go to the sacred cave and is resistant to Aloy plowing through their way of life. Kotallo basically calls her a flaming idiot all the way from Stone’s Crest up until they get the canon. Varl CONSTANTLY calls Aloy out for shutting people out of her life. Erend very bluntly tells her she hurt his feelings and disregards people who can help her. It’s just that in this case with Seyka, Aloy’s had all of those experiences with the others which has resulted in her ability to trust and be vulnerable. She’s had an inordinate amount of character growth by the end of Singularity. She knows Seyka is worthy of sharing the burden, or at least she’s willing to take that leap of faith. And personally, I love that Seyka’s in a position where she doesn’t have to just let Aloy do whatever she’s gonna do. Seyka uniquely knows the lay of the land, and she’s confident she can make progress herself. That’s a really refreshing dynamic to explore in these games.

Again, is it really that Seyka is just an annoying, perfect, unreasonably beautiful and talented woman who you can’t stand, or are you mostly pissed Aloy has a first crush on her instead of companions we know and love?

#this was long so i’m sure i missed some points #the tldr is:#you don’t HAVE to like her #you don’t have to ship her #and we don’t have to agree :)#seyka #burning shores #burning shores spoilers #hfw #horizon forbidden west #spoilers #my notes

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leonineus · 2 years

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Horizon: Forbidden West AU Thoughts (Beware of Spoilers)

Aloy is a sensible person. Headstrong and stubborn (one of the many reasons she's such a loved protagonist), but sensible.

I would think after Letopolis, she would consider that she should probably draw on more of her allies and contacts; people to help combat hostile monsters, people to help support and enhance their efforts, people that she knows that she can Trust.

Picture the scene: Varga setting up a workshop in the Base so that she can crank out even better mechanical marvels for the team to use. She might even, on mention of her from Aloy, contact Petra and ask for her input - Petra would probably find a way to put Chainscrape in someone she trusts' hands and immediately move to the Base herself.

Also note what would happen if Aloy made the mistake of mentioning Delah & Boomer to them; suddenly she has not two but FOUR weapon-crazy Oseram women cooking up Weapons of Machine Destruction inside her Base.

Nil (who I'm aware is in the game but I never got around to trying the Gauntlet Runs on my first playthrough so I didn't encounter him) probably would have been Aloy's first pick to help her resolve the Rebel issue - Regalla would have found herself very short on manpower within a few weeks.

Ikrie, the Aloy-from-another-tribe, would have leapt at the chance to actually help people, when that wish to do so drove her from the Banuk in the first place. She'd also love the opportunity to test her mettle against the new machines in the West, and I can see her Vibing with the Tenakth.

On the note, given Aloy is technically still a Chieftain, I'm pretty sure that Aratak would have brought the werak down from the Wilds with him if she'd asked them to come - the Forbidden West certainly WOULD have been a survival challenge for them! Potentially it could also have given Aloy a communications link with CYAN to assure her that GAIA's attempts to contact her are for good.

Talanah, whatever her personal reasons for coming to the Forbidden West, I'm fairly sure probably would have stuck around if Aloy had asked it of her, particularly since she already canonically knows about the Base from having used it to get through the mountains in the first place.

Teb, ever keen to repay Aloy for saving his life, might well have come to the West himself, eager to provide his services to Aloy and his stitching capabilities putting him in good stead to assist with the Fearsome Foursome's campaign to maximise the Gang's offensive and defensive potential (as well as give Aloy grey hairs well before her time with some of the loud noises that come out of their workshop).

Poor Beta, though - all these vibrant personalities she suddenly finds herself surrounded by, all of whom would probably have taken one look at her similarity to Aloy and gone Must Protecc at once. It seems fortunate - at least for her - that Vanasha wouldn't really have been able to come west given she's now Nasadi's personal bodyguard - she likely would have leapt on the opportunity to influence Beta and possibly traumatised the poor girl.

I also personally think we could've done more with the Base. I know we got a good amount of stuff making it Home for all of them but I think there could have been more.

The addition of four Oseram tinkerers would have let them add more to the Base, and with the education from the Focuses, they could have been able to refine and design more things. I think it's safe to assume that the showers are non-operational given they dump stuff in that area, so maybe a nice big heated bath made of Oseram steel so they can all wash off the stink of the day, to pick one example?

Having more heavy combat-types in the Gang would have given them all a need for a combat training area; fighting each other to improve on their skills or just to let off steam.

And that's not even without considering the impact having all these other faces in the GAIA Gang would have on the storyline? Perhaps the Zeniths get a rude awakening about the capabilities of the local primitives when the Fearsome Foursome get inspired by the Sons of Prometheus' example and manage to create their own anti-Zenith weapons.

With the added boost of those weapons and the larger number of heavy hitters, perhaps certain tragic events at Cauldron GEMINI would not have occurred.

Gotta wonder how Erik Visser might have fared in his attempt to recapture Beta if that were the case - one sadist to another, I think Nil would have made mincemeat out of him if Visser had first been shot with some anti-Zenith weapon to disable his shields and potentially his weapons first.

#horizon zero dawn #horizon forbidden west #horizon frozen wilds #spoilers #au #aloy #beta #varga #petra #delah #boomer #nil #ikrie #teb #talanah #aratak #gaia gang #headcanon

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