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calvinistwoman · 4 years

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What are your thoughts on the LGBT community and would you be willing to have a discussion about said thoughts?

This isn’t a topic I’ve really written much about on this blog, and in truth, it’s something I’ve avoided. Not because I believe it’s unimportant but because 1) there are several Christians on here who have discussed this at length and I didn’t want to just repeat what they were saying, and 2) it’s a very heated topic and I don’t particularly want to deal with all the messages and anon hate I know I’m going to get. I’ve gotten questions like this before (usually from anons who just want to start something) and I haven’t answered them. The reason I’m answering now is because it came from a blog that claims both the Christian and the LGBT title and has written about this topic a lot in attempt to prove that the Bible supports the LGBT lifestyle.

Before I actually get into writing my response, I want to preface this by saying that I don’t mean to degrade or disrespect anyone from the LGBT community. My intention is to only say things that are backed up with Scripture. I understand that I don’t have a full understanding of everything LGBT related, and while I know that the things the Bible says about this topic are offensive, it is not my intention to just be an offensive and nasty person. If I misrepresent you and your viewpoint on things, please know that it’s not personal, I just can only speak from my personal knowledge on this topic. I respect you as a human being and it’s my desire that you come to a full understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Feel free to ask questions or debate me, but I will warn you that I wouldn’t be posting this if I wasn’t already convinced that this is what the Bible says. I will discuss my position, but I won’t be swayed from it. Sorry for the long intro.

Homosexuality:

When faced with the question of whether homosexuality is wrong or right (according to the Biblical standard) we have to first understand what God’s intention was for relationships/marriage/love.

The Bible both begins and ends with a marriage. This is not accidental. The marriage in Genesis 2 is a prophetic picture of the marriage that occurs in Revelation 19. Genesis 2:24 says “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.” This verse is quoted again in Ephesians 5:31, and then we see in verse 32, “This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.” The church is always referred to throughout Scripture as the Bride. She is to be the wife of Christ and He will be her husband. This is how marriage was set up from the beginning. And you can make arguments that “of course it said man/woman and husband/wife because it was a heterosexual couple getting married. That doesn’t mean it HAS to be that way.” To that I’d respond by saying that there is no passage in the Bible that was intended only for the historical characters in those passages. All Scripture is for all Christians of every generation. Secondly, if this passage was really only referring to Adam and Eve, there would have been no need to mention leaving his father and mother, because he had none. Clearly this was meant not just for them, but for those who would come after them as well.

The intention of marriage was clearly defined from the very beginning of Scripture, and it was done purposefully. A man and a woman, two beings that are different, come together to form one flesh. The woman was created to be joined to her husband, just as the Church was created to be joined to Christ. These are the parameters that Scripture has laid out. This is the Biblical definition of marriage. If God, who is not bound by time and knows the future, had wanted to leave the door open for same-sex marriages, He could have simply said two people come together to be one flesh. Since He didn’t, we are not in a position to expand the definition we are given.

So how does this affect same-sex attracted people? It affects them because no matter how you try to translate or interpret the Bible, it does not legitimize a same-sex marriage.

However, I don’t want to just limit this to marriage. What does the Bible say about homosexuality in general? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 list it among other subsets of what is considered the “unrighteous” person. This passage is clear that those who practice such unrighteousness “will not inherit the kingdom of God.” Romans 1, calls it “unnatural” (being that God did not create mankind this way) and “indecent”. The whole passage from 1:21-32 compares same-sex acts with idolatry. V. 23 in the same way that they exchanged God for images and idols, v.26-27 they exchanged the natural use for men and women for the unnatural one. This continues to V. 32 where it says “those who practice such things are worthy of death”. These two passages come to the same conclusion.

Now, I don’t want to condemn people who have felt these desires but have abstained. We cannot control our feelings or desires, but we can choose to not let them dictate our actions.

Transgender:

First, I want to say that there are no verses that directly talk about Transgenderism. However, that doesn’t mean that the Bible doesn’t deal with the issue. There are also no verses about environmentalism, gun control, or if it’s ok to speed and go through red lights.

So what does the Bible say that indicates its position on the transgender debate? Firstly, through creation we see that God made only two options: man and woman. He created them differently and with different uses. This was God’s design for humanity from the beginning.

“Dividing the human race into two genders, male and female – one or the other, not both, and not one then the other – is not the invention of Victorian prudes or patriarchal oafs. It was God’s idea.” – Kevin DeYoung

Before the fall, before sin and decay entered the world, there were two assigned genders. Again, this was purposeful.

Yes, I’ve heard the argument that sex and gender are different and that you can be male of one and yet female of the other. And I don’t want to be insensitive and try to deny the genuine feelings people have about this. Yes, there are men who believe that their sex is male and their gender is female. Those feelings may be real and come from some sort of legitimate place, but that doesn’t make them correct. God has separated us by design and has placed boundaries on what men and women should be.

1 Corinthians 1:14-15 “Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her?”

Deuteronomy 22:5 “A woman shall not wear a man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.”

This is totally counter-cultural, but the fact is that God is our creator and has every right to limit our uses of our bodies. He has purposefully designed us, and commands that we act in accordance with what He has made us for. This is non-negotiable for those who claim Christ: that regardless of what we feel inclined to or desire, we use our bodies for God’s purpose. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

Why are sexual sins different than other sins?

Now, there is a sense in which sin is sin. All sin, no matter how great or small, shares the same penalty. And we know that we shouldn’t judge others who have sinned “more” or “worse” because in the end, we have all fallen short of the same goal and offended God infinitely.

However, we should also remember that the Bible does speak about sexual sins (sins with our bodies) as being in a different category than other sins. 1 Corinthians 6 goes into this in great length. V. 13, says that the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord. V. 15 talks about how our bodies are members of Christ. V.18 says “Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body.” Then V. 19-20 conclude the chapter by telling us that we are not our own, and we ought to glorify God with our bodies.

Common objections to the Biblical view:

“But God says I’m beautifully and wonderfully made.” Firstly, in the context of the passage, this isn’t meant to be a “You’re perfect just the way you are” kind of verse. Rather, the writer is praising God for His creation. Secondly, no one would take this verse to mean that EVERYTHING about us is made perfectly. Since the fall, we have cancer and broken bones and obesity and mental issues. Just because something exists within us does not mean it’s good. Which leads me to one of the most common objections…

“I was born this way.” As Christopher Yuan, author of Holy Sexuality and the Gospel: Sex, Desire, and Relationships Shaped by God’s Grand Story, so eloquently put it: “innateness doesn’t mean that something is permissible; being born a sinner doesn’t make sin right.” Regardless of the things that exist in your life, Christ calls us to holiness.

“God is love so he will accept me.” God is also Holy and Just and has laid out commandments that we should follow. Yes, He is Love, and it was in His love that He made a way for us to be accepted by the Father. But the ONLY way to have that acceptance is to be found in Christ. God’s love and acceptance will not be extended to anyone who is not found in Christ. (Romans 5:1-8)

Moreover, God cannot accept sin or sinners. In fact, the Bible says clearly that God HATES sinners. (Psalm 5:4-6, Psalm 11:5, Proverbs 6:16-19, Jeremiah 12:8, Hosea 9:15, Malachi 1:2-3, Romans 9:13.) (References gathered by Steven Rohn, inthelasthour.com, Does God Hate Sin and Not Sinners? Revisiting an Old Cliché)

“God wants us to be happy.” Yes, God wants us to have joy in Him, but that doesn’t mean He wants us to be happy at the expense of holiness. In fact, God calls us to do things that will potentially lead us to have difficult and depressing lives. In Luke 9:23, Christ calls us to deny ourselves and our desires to follow Him. In many places in Scripture, we are also told to die to ourselves, that we might live to Christ. (Galatians 2:20, Philippians 3:8, Ephesians 4:22-24, Galatians 5:24) So yeah, there is joy in Christ, but don’t think that just because something makes you happy means that it’s ok.

“Even if that was a part of the Old Testament Law, it doesn’t apply to modern day Christians.” This is just a blatant misunderstanding of our relationship to the law. First, the only way to be freed from the Law is to be joined to Christ through His death. (Romans 7:3-4) This means that if you have not trusted in Christ and have not been cleansed by His blood, the curse of the Law still applies to you. You ARE under obligation to keep the Law. It wasn’t vanquished when Christ died. It was merely fulfilled for those who are Christ’s. Second, just because something was stated in the OT Law doesn’t mean it no longer applies. The Law also said not to kill and steal and those are still 100% in effect. Also, you might have a better case if the same things weren’t explicitly stated in the New Testament as well.

“When the Bible was written, homosexuality didn’t exist in its modern monogamous, loving format”

First, the Bible never prefaces its condemnation of homosexuality by saying “If it’s loving and monogamous, then it’s ok.” It’s an absolute statement. Those who practice homosexuality will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Period.

Second, this isn’t a new concept. Not in the slightest. It’s become trendy the last few years, but these things have existed for a long time. A few sources for looking into homosexuality in the ancient world would be: Homosexuality in Ancient Greece and Rome: A Sourcebook of Basic Documents by Prof. Thomas K Hubbard. And Plato’s Symposium.

Now, I know that was a super long answer, and probably not the one you wanted to hear. The truth is that any attempt to pair Christianity with the LGBT community is doomed to fail because Christianity is first and foremost predicated on the truths of the Bible, and some of those truths come into stark conflict with LGBT beliefs. In recent years, I have seen a lot of people coming out as “Queer Christians”. I know these people exist and I’m not trying to deny that. But the reality is that the Bible speaks clearly on these issues and any attempt to deny that is also a denial of Christ.

What makes a Christian? Is it someone who believes in God? Or someone who believes that Jesus Saves!? 1 John gives us a clear indication of what a Christian is and is not.

1 John 2:3-4 “By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in Him.”

So to the people who claim both the title of Christianity and of the LGBT community, I ask this: In light of the Biblical commands to abstain from sexual immorality and homosexuality, and in light of God’s design regarding gender, are you willing to submit to God and flee from sin, or will you continue to disobey His commandments? The truth is that if God says something is wrong and you continue to do it (and try to justify is as being just fine) you are NOT a Christian. You can’t possibly be, because it is a defining characteristic of a Christian that when God commands, we obey. We can’t cling to Christ and our sin at the same time.

But, there is forgiveness to be found in Christ. It’s only by turning from sin and turning to Christ that we can be saved. We cannot have both sin and salvation.

If you are someone who genuinely believes in Christ, but has been taught that the LGBT lifestyle and Christianity are compatible, I urge you to read your scriptures and see for yourself. Christ offers us a life walked in righteousness, a life free from the slavery of sin. Don’t be deceived, but rather read your Bible. See what God had created us for, and turn to Him.

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nottskyler · 4 years

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Catching up from the weekend I saw a this post: “the media will not acknowledge the presence of gay Christians who have chosen celibacy, or bi Christians who have chosen to renounce same-sex romantic relationships, entirely of their own volition.“

I wanted to give my two cents on it without seeming mean since I strongly disagree with this statement. If I had not been trans, I would have been a lot worse of an advocate against gays because I am bi. For bi individuals it is a choice, like not dating the sexist creep no matter how attractive he looks or not dating a non-member or not dating someone going into a career that you can’t handle the moral implications of what your spouse is going to be doing to provide for the family. It’s a choice that bi people have the luxury of making and it isn’t a big deal. Maybe you missed out by not dating the same-sex, but it would be like the non-member converting while you were on your mission and you could’ve been the one to help them into the Church or like the individual who wanted the morally questionable job could’ve easily been swayed into a different career, but in the end your life isn’t on the line when it comes to who you chose as your spouse.

Some gay Christians may find themselves leaning towards asexuality or are repulsed with the idea of any sex. For them choosing to remain celibate is like an asexual person choosing that path, it doesn’t take a lot of pain and maybe living with a romantic partner would be nice, but they’ll live.

For the rest of the queer community it isn’t a “sacrifice” like not drinking alcohol or not having sex before marriage or limiting marriage options to members. Choosing to not live our eternal gender or as ourselves is choosing to be depressed, anxious, and possibly suicidal for our entire live. While it might not always mean that death comes by suicide, living as a hollow shell trying to present as human to hide the void that you have become is a death of who you are as a child of Gd. The choice is one of life or death.

There is a recurring question about choosing good and evil in the Book of Mormon that equates choosing good as choosing life and choosing evil as choosing death. -“And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil” 2 Nephi 2:27 -“But he that knoweth good and evil, to him it is given according to his desires, whether he desireth good or evil, life or death, joy or remorse of conscience.” Alma 29:5 -“He hath given unto you that ye might choose life or death; “ Helaman 14:30-31

This comparison has meant a lot to me as I have navigated my faith and identity because transitioning is choosing life and choosing Christ. It makes my path as clear as day is from the night. From what I see about gay people who aren’t asexual leaning, the same goes for them. Abstaining from relationships, or worse trying to live in a hetero relationship, kills them just as much as living as a woman did to me.

There is definitely a keenness for suffering-porn with Protestantism where the suffering of others is seen as for their benefit and the belief that suffering causes the suffering person’s exaltation even though most Church goers would never opt to go into those situations even if it was their only path for salvation. There is this belief that life being difficult is what life is about. But it isn’t. Life is about learning and growing and becoming better.

The enabling power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ because it is a tool and not a solution. Seeing the Atonement as something that makes things right instead of a tool to make things right is why so many Christians opt for supporting charity organizations instead of going out and doing their part to stop suffering where they are. It’s why the Church sits back and says that everything will be made right later, so be depressed and suicidal i this life if you are queer and you will be saved. But the whole point of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is to heal us NOW (obviously not like a miracle cure, but it is a treatment to start using now). Jesus Christ suffered to help carry our burdens not so we can carry them to prove we are worthy of eternal life. The enabling power shakes the chains of death and hell that came from living the wrong gender and sexuality so we can learn to live our lives and be happy members of society that can contribute to bettering it. Repentance looks like coming out of the closet and living as who you truly are.

I have nothing against people who try to live as they were taught as long as it isn’t killing them, it would be very hypocritical of me to judge since I lived that way for most of my life. But stop thinking that you aren’t represented. You chose to be another body in the congregation of the Church. That is your representation. Don’t complain because you think you deserve to be more than one in the crowd, that you’ll be different from every other poster child used to tell queer people how to live their lives only to step down and follow everyone else in a few years. Don’t worry, the Church takes care of telling us how to live so we don’t need representation on how not to follow the “queer lifestyle”.

Being a good Christian means being a good person. Being a good Christian frequently means doing good things without being acknowledged or thanked. Being a good Christian means having a relationship with Christ. Stop worrying if other people are seeing your righteousness.

#two cents #rant #personal

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all-things-are-nothing-to-me · 5 years

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Veganism From A Nihilist and Anti-Civilization Perspective

What is veganism? Another morality? Another alternative of society? Another swampy lake inside the infinite sea of the abomination of the existent? Most of its aspects are moralistic and anthropocentric. From this part not even the anarchists can escape. Veganism as a passive form of "struggle" neglects to consider many things from my point of view. Now someone could tell me it is exactly the same since you are a vegan. But no. My start is completely different. Instead of a form of struggle I would specify that as a form of abstinence from one of the wheels of civilization and capitalism with the admittance of its problematics in the present reality. Because as a struggle, from whom and towards whom would that be? A struggle of the civilized human towards yet another subject of exploitation could be nothing more than as sterile as many others. A victimization. On the other hand as an individualist choice of conscious abstinence and negation of the part of the existent that sees our comrades as raw material it becomes a dynamic choice. There is no "good" or "evil" for me. Inside the system of capitalism I deny the decadence which emanates from prisons and the tyranny of the life of the non-human animals. In another non-systematized world I would not deny, if the circumstances of survival demanded that, to use anything from whichever living organism. If I needed that and I was stronger I would prevail. With respect for the lives of my non-enemies. So a form of abstinence and anti-necrosis of my ego from the imprisonment, commercialization and trivialization of non–human life from the endless and infinite notion of civilization. Not as "embargo" to the industry of meat which would have no meaning for me because afterwards you will find

yourself nonetheless entangled in the wheels of another industry. These have no meaning for me anyways since the economics are a part of this system and have nothing to offer me. I want to destroy economy not to use it politically. Not as a choice of "good" or "bad" since I do not acknowledge any form of moral normality that comes from social or cultural structures, nor do I care about morality at all. So it is just a tool one can use given the current circumstances and nothing more. It is the closest approach for my individuality that has negated anthropocentrism.

Anyway you cannot be 100% vegan or keep an attitude towards the earth that you might have wanted through a system that everything is assimilable and we have seen that many times. Being an anarchist you realize quickly that everything inside the system of the state and civilization is your enemy. You find yourself in a constant war. All of the basic need products inside the system will either be made out of non-human animals that have died for the needs of consumerism and the various companies which enslave our lives, or will be toxic or non-degradable by the earthly environment, or will be the products of the vegan or environmentalist companies which there is being played another game of profit and consumerism approaching the moral or lifestyle consumers and creating other societies, assimilable, and of course controllable by the system. Even if you choose tactics, let's say as an example to expropriate shoes, you could avoid to contribute to the economic part of the system of consumerism but you will never be certain of whether or not you have avoided the fact that the shoes you stole could most likely have on them materials that are toxic or non-degradable (and would have been made in a way that pollutes the earthly environment), or even to have glue on them that uses extracted products from prisoner non-human animals. The systems of exploitation and destruction of the civilized man towards everything we love is endless. So as a nihilist and with conscience for total liberation anarchist individual, I don't see veganism and my awareness about the earth through any moral chains which would be easily assimilable by the system (the system includes laws, institutions, morals, state, society, civilization etc.) and I consider it ridiculous even for myself to play the game of politics, of looking to find the vegan products or those friendly to the environment inside the system of ultimate exploitation and trivialization of anything free and alive that exists. Therefore I am a vegan out of personal conscience, given the current circumstances, without becoming a monk, trying in any way and as much as I can to abstain from the dominant anthropocentric decadence of life in this world. The anti-civilization conscience is just another part of the esoteric of the individuality that acknowledges no other entity above the individual and his/her/their desires, analyzing the earth as a chaotic integral part of existence and reappraises his/her/their relation to it and all the other individualities.

Only through spontaneity, the negation of what we have been taught including all values and ideals coming from society, oneself's uniqueness and critical thinking, moments of attack and self-fulfillment and I could also say the coming closer to the earthly environment, I could see a meaning of existence (personal meaning, not as an objective truth) of my individuality.

Veganism is clearly only a tool against some systems. For the other forms of liberation of each individuality each one of us can invent his/her/their own ways. There is no singular effective way/means. We set targets, we are patient, we use every material and means against the enemy and with whatever power we have been left with and whenever we can we attack like the eagle without any moral barriers nor respect for their lives. Not for a "greater purpose", but for the time that has been stolen from us. Away from moralistic claims like "meat is murder" I feel the need to attack everything that attacks my aesthetic perception and doesn't leave me to get pleasure from my surroundings. I don’t have the need to criticize the comrade who does not follow the methods of veganism for his/her/their own reasons, but has developed a deep analysis against the existent, ( although meat eating and the use of non-human animals is the most dominant form of living on the planet), insomuch as this comrade will have reached a state of consciousness through critical thinking which will not leave him/her/their to fall into complacency with his/her/their choices or consider one way of living inferior or superior, normal or abnormal. I will criticize though for sure all those who do not question the mass habits of living as well as all the anarchists whose criticism of veganism originates only from the idol of the anthropocentric world.

#Archegonos #eco defense #attack #nihilism #direct action everywhere #vegan #veganism #vegan anarchy #anarcho-nihilism #animal liberation #anti civ #earth liberation #green anarchy #communism #anarchism

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that-devout-catholic-woman · 6 years

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Hey uh, I’m a catholic 16 year old who is deeply afraid my church will hate me if they knew I was gay, and seeing your prayer posts and the posts about loving gay people in the church made me cry. Thank you.

Hello there, anon! Please know you are seen and known and very loved both on this blog and more importantly by God Himself. This is a safe place to talk and you are always welcome to send me asks or messages as you feel comfortable to discuss these topics as well as anything else that you may be going through. I have a lot to say on this topic so please bear with me, and I know it’s long but I have a lot of really great resources about halfway through so please read to the end if this affects you or those you know and love.

My heart really goes out to you, anon, because that’s kind of the situation I myself am in also. I’m bi and not really out besides on this blog and to a small handful of close friends. People in the Church make it very hard to come out, and I don’t think sometimes they even really recognize that they’re doing it. That being said, being bi makes it a little easier for me to be straight-passing, especially since being a devout Catholic I only date men so I don’t raise as many eyebrows this way. I don’t know the specifics of your sexuality but I know that if you are higher on the Kinsey Scale that it is probably a little harder to remain under everyone’s radar so to speak.

It is my personal belief and that of many others within the Church that it is not having the same-sex attraction (SSA) that is problematic/sinful but the choices some of us in the community make with regards to that which is problematic/sinful. However, there are those Christians who take the complete opposite stance, one of rejection rather than love and inclusion, within our churches. I know how hard it can be to allow yourself to open up and be vulnerable with regards to this topic when the fear of rejection and retaliation, and even abuse and violence, are possibilities. My hope is that we can spread enough love and awareness and promote the Golden Rule in our churches to the point where everyone will be welcome. Oftentimes it is those people that the Church rejects that need Her the most. Those who have SSA are part of this group. But the Catholic Church (I’m not sure about the other denominations) is attempting to overcome this issue and in fact has a section about it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC):

“The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

There are a couple things I recommend you take a look at when you have a free moment. One is a video by Ascension Presents called “Homosexuality, Gay Marriage, and Holiness” which can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLrRfwpvERU&list=PLeXS0cAkuTPrHPAveZQtnRXDoINjqovfc&index=3

The second is a conversation on Relevant Radio (a Catholic talk show on the radio across the country, they also have a website and app where you can stream it for free–I highly recommend to everyone) where Father Mike Schmitz was a guest on the Drew Mariani show and talked about those with SSA and their role in the Church as well as the Church’s role in accepting those with SSA. The article discussing the highlights of the conversation can be found here:

https://relevantradio.com/2018/02/sex-attraction-catholic-church/?highlight=gay

while the actual conversation itself can be found here:

https://relevantradio.com/2018/01/drew-mariani-show-jan-30-hour-2-2/

One thing that we with SSA have to ask ourselves is “Now what?” Now that I, a Christian, know and have accepted that I have SSA, what do I do? Usually there’s a dichotomy in people’s minds that I can only be closeted or out and living a gay lifestyle. But there’s a third, middle-of-the-road option. You can follow Church teaching while avoiding the occasions of sin that come along with being gay. This means abstaining from sex with those of the same sex, avoiding marriage outside of a Christian marriage, and avoiding dating those of the same sex as well. If you are bi like me, you can still be called to the vocation of marriage so long as you date and marry as God intended. Otherwise, you still have access to the vocations of the priesthood (if you are a man), religious life, or consecrated singlehood.

It’s not easy to be a Christian and have SSA. It’s not always easy to follow the rules. But it’s also not easy to be a Christian and be a fallen human being in general. It’s not always easy to follow the rules then either. And sometimes we may fall in our attempt to be Holy and follow what God wants us to do, but we just have to pick ourselves back up and ask God for another chance, which looks like going to confession and asking for God’s forgiveness.

It’s not easy to be a Christian and have SSA, but I know that my life would be so much worse off if I did not have God leading me through it. It would be easier to just live a hedonistic lifestyle and do whatever I wanted, but there’d still be a void that I could not fill, a God-sized and -shaped hole that only He can alleviate. So no it’s not easy. But it’s what’s right, and at the end of the day, I’ll do whatever it takes to keep my relationship with God going strong because that’s the only source of undying unconditional love that any of us can receive.

My hope and my prayer for you, anon, and anyone else who may be reading this that has SSA, is that you find the path that God is calling you to. That you will always find love and acceptance within the Church. And that you may have the strength, courage, and dedication to follow God’s law even when temptation comes. May you always have the power to stand up for what is right, even if most of the world disagrees with you. And may God watch over you and be merciful towards you all the days of your life, until you get to meet Him face to face on the last day.

God bless you, anon, and please know you are welcome on my blog anytime.

-C

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johnboothus · 3 years

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VinePair Podcast: The Merits of Mindful Drinking

January is traditionally a time for contemplation, reflection, and reassessing of priorities. Even though January 2021 is unusual in many ways, many people are still using this month to re-examine their relationship with alcohol, whether engaging in Dry January, or otherwise cutting back on consumption. At the same time, there’s a growing trend toward lower-calorie beverage alcohol products and more transparency about nutritional information on labels for products like beer and wine that have traditionally not provided that data.

So what exactly does it mean to practice mindful drinking? Why have those who are abstaining from alcohol typically been left behind by the beverage alcohol industry, and how might that be changing? Why are lower-alcohol, lower-calorie drinks emerging as a trend, and how can drinkers integrate these beverages into their lifestyles? Those are the questions that Adam Teeter and Zach Geballe tackle on this week’s episode of the “VinePair Podcast.”

Listen online

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Or check out the conversation here

Adam: From Brooklyn, New York, I’m Adam Teeter.

Zach: And in Seattle, Washington, I’m Zach Geballe.

A: And this is the “VinePair Podcast.” And Zach, it’s January. It is still Mindful Drinking Month. And that means we still have an ad for Mindful Drinking Month. So let’s get into it and thank our sponsors before we get into today’s episode, which is actually all about mindful drinking. If you’re aiming to cut back on calories and alcohol but still want to enjoy a delicious glass of wine, then Mind and Body Wines are your perfect solution. These low-calorie, low-alcohol wines are only 90 calories per serving and are vegan, gluten-free, non-GMO and made without added sugar. With Mind and Body Wines, you can sip without sacrifice and you can learn more at mindandbodywines.com. So Zach, before we start talking about mindful drinking, let’s talk about drinking in general or what you’ve been up to recently. What have you been tasting?

Z: So as mentioned on last week’s episode, I am not drinking in January, as is always the case for me — at least from a standpoint of having a beverage for consumption. But because of what I do professionally, there’s still occasional tastings. Obviously, much less, and I was actually talking to my wife about this the other day. Typically in January — when I was running beverage programs in restaurants, when restaurants were a thing that I was doing, January was actually a hard month for me in some ways, because it was usually the month when I really refreshed the wine program. In restaurants, typically, November and December are really busy. You don’t really have time to have tasting appointments. You’re just trying to get through the months and get through the holiday season. And you’re just reordering, if anything. And so January, for me, was always a month where I would do actually a fair bit of tasting and refreshing menus and lists — obviously not doing that this year. So the amount of wine that is passing through my world, even if I’m not drinking it, is significantly limited. But I do want to say that the one thing that I had relatively recently that I did try, which I really was interested in, and maybe a topic for a podcast down the road one day, is I think there’s been this interesting attempt to revitalize some historic California properties and some wineries — in this case I’m thinking of Louis M. Martini. I was trying some stuff from the Monte Rosso Vineyard, which is one of the iconic vineyards in California. It was planted in the 1880s, initially, and it’s one of those situations where, like, that was a property where when California wine was first coming on the scene, they were one of the top brands. They got sold, they got kind of commoditized. And recently, they are trying to step back out of that reputation as generic, inexpensive, trading-on-the-legacy-of-the-name wines. And so again, maybe we’ll talk about that more down the road. But I think there is this interesting thing where you see this with California in particular, a few wineries in Napa and to some extent maybe in Sonoma and a few other places, where there is really an effort to to burnish or reestablish the legacy of some of these truly monumental producers that just were turned into a commodity brand at one point, because that was what people thought of the wine industry in the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, whatever.

A: Yeah, I think it’s interesting. So it’s funny you bring up that winery, because they’ve submitted a few years now for tastings, and it always does really well as they’ve had this sort of “rebirth.” I know a new company owns them, the largest wine company in the country now, actually, but they’ve actually done an amazing job with that brand.

Z: Well, it makes sense, because the thing that is true about several of these brands that have wineries that have attempted to kind of be revitalized is, in many cases, they still have some of the absolute best vineyard sites in California. That has not changed. But what had to change and what is changing in some of these cases is that the larger company that owns them is making a product that is a world-class wine that befits those world-class vineyards, not a brand that we can put on grocery store shelves for $30 a bottle all over the world. And that’s a pivot that’s been required. And I think it makes me glad for the sake of the history and the quality of the grapes that are coming off those vineyards, that that has been something that the value of which has been seen by very, very large wine companies.

A: Yeah. I think it’s important to see to what some of these other really well-known brands in the next few years do as they’re also changing hands. There’s a bunch of things — we can talk about it on another episode because it’s probably too much talk about for our intro.

Z: It’s more than banter.

A: But yeah, super interesting. For me, actually, I did break Dry January last night on a Wednesday. I was like, “You know what? I think I drink very respectfully. And we’ll talk about all that in a second. And I wanted a beer. And this brewery out of L.A., Highland Park Brewery, had sent me some of their beers, and I was like, well, I kind of want to do them the favor of tasting this beer now. And so I opened one of the beers, an India Pale Ale called Strata Aerobics, which I thought was just like a dope name and a beautiful label. And it was a delicious beer. And it’s nice to have a beer, have some dinner, watch a little TV. I’m flipping back and forth between two shows right now. Can’t decide, I can’t focus on just one.

Z: “Bridgerton” and?

A: No, that’s already been finished. I didn’t watch “Bridgerton,” just for the record. Naomi watched “Bridgerton.” I popped in and out of it. It’s a little too trashy for me. I respect what it’s doing, but I was not a “Gossip Girl” person, either, just not my sort of thing. And that’s basically how it was explained to me, “Oh, this is ‘Gossip Girl.’ But like in the 18th century.” I was like, “I’m gonna pass that up.” But do you have, like, shows you watch with your wife, and then shows that are like your own shows?

Z: I would say that we have our shows that we watch together and then she has shows she watches without me, including “Bridgerton.” I don’t have a lot of other shows outside of, I would say that on the rare occasions that on the evenings where she wants to watch something on her own, I watch sports. I watch basketball, which she has a limited tolerance for, but not a big one. Or actually for my birthday, she got me a Nintendo Switch. I have not had a video game console in many years, but I have been doing that. We play some together, but also that is sometimes my evening alone time activities.

A: That’s funny. I know we definitely have shows together, shows alone. Our two shows together right now are, and again, we only have one TV, like we only believe in having a TV in the living room. So it’s also basically we have shows Naomi watches alone, and shows we watch together. And then once in a while, I get to watch my own if she goes to bed early or whatever. But we’re watching together right now the NXIVM documentary “The Vow,” which is like, “whoa!” And then also “The Good Lord Bird,” which is amazing on Showtime.

Z: I feel like I’ve never heard of either of those. So I don’t know what that says about me.

A: “The Vow” is on HBO. It’s all about the crazy cult NXIVM that turned out to be a sex-trafficking ring, which is insane. And then “The Good Lord Bird” is based on the novel and it’s about the abolitionist John Brown. And it is incredible. And Ethan Hawke is just amazing in the role. So it’s a really, really great show. But that’s one of those shows that is hard to watch, obviously. It deals with a lot of very uncomfortable history in our country. So, we can usually watch one episode of it in the evening. And I’m like, “OK, we’re either going to watch something fun or go read.” And I just picked up a new book that I’m excited about that I’ve also been reading called “Up All Night,” which is the story of the history of CNN and how basically 24-hour news came to be that co-founder Josh Malin recommended to me. So thanks, Josh. But yeah, that’s what I’ve been drinking and up to. And I think it’s a good segue into the theme of this podcast, which is mindful drinking. And I think we talk about this a lot as an industry, but it’s always an important conversation to have. And it’s just how we approach it, and it always seems like January is the time when we reflect on this. And I think we do that for a few reasons. One, there’s not a lot of activity in January. You can kind of get away with unplugging a bit. There’s not a ton of places to go. There’s usually not a ton of meetings. Everyone’s kind of like head down, planning for the year. You don’t have a lot of drinks or dinners. There’s one holiday weekend, obviously, the one coming up, Martin Luther King weekend. But again, it’s usually a cold weekend. So you’re either skiing, or you’re probably kind of staying put. Right? You’re not going to the beach and just slammin’ Margaritas. So it’s a time that a lot of people have decided is the month that they sort of reflect on health in general. And I think also it’s when you start thinking about, “OK, March is close,” and March traditionally has always been a spring break month. I got to be in that bathing suit again, what’s that look like? So it’s always a good time to think about it. So I’m excited to have this conversation with you. I definitely have always, I think, because of the industry we’re in, I’ve always been aware of my relationship to alcohol and sort of understanding that it’s something that I obviously enjoy. It helps me unwind. I like it for social aspects, but also it’s something that I’m aware of that you can easily abuse. And so for me, it was always really important, especially as we started VinePair, that I knew there would be — not that I would count drinks — but that I would be aware of what I consumed in the evening. And that also, I knew that I was always taking a few days off, that like throughout the week I knew I wasn’t going to drink, like, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, or something. Sunday, Monday, Thursday. How have you approached it? Because on the floor, being in the restaurant, you hear about that a lot. There can always just be an excuse. So how have you sort of throughout your career approached drinking and drinking mindfully?

Z: That’s an excellent question. I want to say one thing really quick before I answer that. And that is in this conversation, I think we’re going to talk about “mindful drinking” through two different lenses, at least in my estimation. And one is this first one, which is about the relationship between alcohol as a substance and the controlled, safe use of it. And then there’s also drinking in a more sort of direct “health” sense in terms of, like, we’ll talk calories and stuff like that. And so I’m mostly for this part, going to focus on that question you posed, which is dealing with alcohol as an intoxicating substance and how that works. And I’ll say I reflect on this every year, and I’ve been thinking about it a lot this year because as I mentioned before, it’s the first year in a very, very long time — since I was in high school — that I’m not working in a restaurant in January, maybe one other year somewhere in there. But basically, I think that one thing that was very clear to me from my very, very early days in the restaurant industry, frankly, even before I worked in a restaurant growing up in and around restaurants is that in that industry, and the beverage alcohol industry more broadly, one of the real challenges is, it does not put up many guardrails for people when it comes to alcohol and certainly didn’t used to. This may be changing over time. I think outright intoxication at work is less tolerated now than it was when I was young and certainly even before I was in the workforce. But it’s very true that whether it’s restaurant workers or even, frankly, people in wine or beverage, alcohol production, media, et cetera, there’s a lot of access. There aren’t a lot of people asking questions or passing judgments, at least not to your face very often. And again, there are few guardrails and in many cases the guardrails that exist are broader, societal ones. And when you’re going over one of those, there’s real problems. And there aren’t a lot of mechanisms within the industry sometimes to keep someone from getting to that point. And so for me, when I was young, it became, I don’t mean to say that I was as mindful a drinker at 21 or 23 or 25, even as I am now at 37. But I do think that relatively early on for me, I recognized that one thing that was important to me was to not be the person that I worked with who every night after work it was four, five, six, seven drinks at the bar. Every time we went out, it was they wanted to get into a fight or broke down crying or wanted to have sex with literally anything, and all the kind of things that come with not just alcohol consumption, but sort of uncontrolled consumption. And I guess fortunately, unfortunately, had a lot of examples of people who without total abstinence could not manage alcohol consumption. And I think there’s a lot of people like that. And there are people like that in my family. There are people like that in my friend circle. And I’m grateful in a lot of cases that they’ve been able to come to that realization in some cases without tremendous cost to themselves. But it’s very true that one thing that this industry asks of people is, do you have really good boundaries around alcohol? Because there’s very little support to help build those otherwise. And that may be true in life in general. I can’t say certainly there are other professions in other industries where there’s a lot of drinking to deal with stress or drinking to deal with life or just people aren’t really asking. But this one is particularly pernicious because there’s almost an expectation that you drink along with everyone else, because it’s our job and it’s hard for some people to find that balance point.

A: Yeah, I think that’s really true. And I think you have to find it any way that you can, and you have to be conscious of it. And I think that’s what we both have tried to do, and I encourage others to do, which is when you think about what does “mindful drinking” mean, a lot of it does mean how do you acknowledge that what you are consuming is alcohol? And I think that’s the thing that we try to talk about a lot with VinePair, is that’s also the reason that we try to not take it so seriously in terms of some of the ways in which we can evaluate wines. Because at the end of the day, the reason that the majority of people are attracted to it is is because it’s alcohol. At the end of the day, we are humans, and humans have always sought out substances, as other animals do. And so I think that’s why it shouldn’t be taken so seriously. But that’s also why it should be taken seriously in terms of what the ingredients are. And I think that there’s a lot of ways that you can be OK with your relationship to it and you can train yourself to be sort of OK. And one way to do that, obviously, is to just make sure that two to three days out of the week you’re only drinking water, that all those other days you’re making sure you’re not consuming too much. But if you have a hard time shutting down, at least this has been for people that I know saying like, “OK, once I start drinking, I’m always going to want that next glass.” And then there are other options, right? There are things like “free” or otherwise non-alcoholic things like Athletic that you and Cat love, the non-alcoholic beer that you can sort of sub in. Or Fre, the wine that is the advertiser on the podcast this week. I think those are things that can help a lot of people to make those choices. And then it also does help to have those around when you have someone in your life who doesn’t drink. Because also you don’t want them to feel left out at all.

Z: And that piece, I think, is a really important one to mention. Because one of the really challenging things about the restaurant industry, about working in beverage alcohol more broadly, I think is that it’s really hard for people — and I think again, societally, too, but especially in that industry — it’s really hard to be the person who says, “You know what, I’m not drinking” or “I’ve had enough, but I still want to hang out with you guys. I still want to hang out with my coworkers after a shift. I still want to go out after work and hang out.” And I think it’s totally the case that we’re starting to see, as you discussed, some of the products and others, too, that are entering the marketplace that are saying, “Hey, look, we recognize that soda isn’t necessarily what adults, especially sort of health-conscious adults want. And that, frankly, the flavor profile may not be what you want.” And that we talked about this a couple episodes ago. I think there are non-alcoholic beverage options, but none of them quite do it for us, and they don’t feel, they don’t feel special in the way that even a non-alcoholic beer or wine can feel special. And maybe that’s just a linguistic trick that we play on ourselves. Fine. But I do think that that is very much the case. And I think that one area, and I think this is something that we both agree on to some extent, but I’m curious to hear your perspective, is sometimes I think these products get pigeonholed as only for people who don’t drink — whether they’re sober, whether they’re on medication, whether they’re pregnant, et cetera, that they are someone who does not ever drink. And this is only for them. And to me, I think one interesting part of this conversation is, is there a place for these beverages for the person who wants to intermix them with alcohol? That maybe they want to have two glasses of wine with dinner, but only one of them is going to have alcohol. Or they want to have three beers out watching a football game with friends, but one of them doesn’t have alcohol, and that we tend societally to be “all or nothing.” And in some ways, I understand when it comes to a substance as powerful as alcohol, that for some people the only answer or safe answer is nothing. Fine. But I think for a lot of people, the “nothing” side of it, that “no- alcohol” side has been so devoid of options that are interesting and tasty and sort of plausible facsimiles that it has created a space where a well-made product that meets those needs can really thrive, I think. It seems that way to me. I don’t know. What’s your read?

A: Yeah. I think that there is an opportunity here. So first of all, there’s obviously a need for there to be really well-made products in this space for sure, because there are so many use cases for it. And so I think it is this thing where I’ve talked to so many people, whether they aren’t drinking, have stopped drinking entirely, or they are pregnant or have other health issues — maybe it’s even that they’re on a certain medication they’re not supposed to drink on where they’re like, it’s kind of just boring to go out with people and only be like, “Can I have a soda water with lemon?”.

Z: Or the exciting bitters and soda?

A: Yeah, well, yes, exactly Zach. There are times when that doesn’t feel so great to be that person. And so to have those alternatives is really good. And the fact that there are people out there — creators, winemakers, brewers who are trying to make great-tasting alcohol-free is really interesting. I don’t know if you were paying attention to the Random channel on Slack today.

Z: I was!

A: But like, look, again, I’m not sure how large of a market there is that there needs to be a physical store in the Lower East Side, but the fact that this new store in the LES called Spirited Away opened where the entire store is alcohol-free products is really interesting to me. There’s got to be a large enough market there. And the liquor store minus the liquor, I think, is really cool and shows that there’s a lot of stuff out there right now and people trying to make these kinds of products for a wide swath of the population who is choosing not to drink at certain times, but doesn’t want to miss out on that experience of drinking.

Z: And that is a crucial piece. And I want to emphasize this, because for me, with the people I’ve worked with that I’ve known in my life who have real problems with alcohol, one of the biggest challenges for some of them has been feeling like they can’t be a part of a group that goes out and drinks because there’s nothing for them. Soda water and whatever is boring and anything else — that an impediment to sobriety or healthfulness for some people is really something as simple as they don’t get to have a special drink of their own. If they don’t want to drink iced tea, or they don’t want to drink soda or lemonade or juice, those are perfectly fine beverages. But not everyone likes them. They don’t want them all the time. They may not go well with food in some cases. So there’s that real impediment for some people. That’s just like they won’t make the choice between their social life and their health, and products that allow them to have both, I think, are really, really valuable.

A: I agree. The other thing I think is interesting that goes along with mindful drinking is thinking about this world of lower-calorie options. And that’s something also that I think a lot of people start to revisit during this time of year.

Z: Yeah, me, for sure.

A: Well, again, we talked about the bathing suit, right? So it’s like how do you get in shape? I mean especially in the pandemic, man. Like there were weeks in the pandemic where I was making two loaves of bread a week. That is a lot. So what do you think about that? And we’ve seen especially the explosion on the beer and the seltzer side, Michelob Ultra kind of led this craze for the lower-alcohol beers. Now, seltzer with White Claw and Truly have really taken up that mantle and really prominently placing the calorie counts on the bottles. And now you have wines like Mind and Body and others that are doing it as well. And I also think that’s important. I think the idea that people understand what the calorie count is, is important. If you are someone that is trying to have some sort of balance and measure what you’re taking in your body and then what you’re expelling in terms of exercise and burn and stuff like that. Those are useful things. And I think especially on the wine side, it is something where, we talked about this before, the clarity of labeling is something that the wine industry should stop being so afraid of. I think putting the ingredients, that doesn’t put you into the pseudoscience space. It actually just says, “Hey, this is what’s in it.” And, “Hey, here’s the nutritional facts about it.” I think that that’s important. Like here’s what 5 ounces of this wine is going to cost you in calories. I’d love to know that. A lot of us would love to be more aware of that when we’re consuming. And I don’t mean to just pick on wine. I think craft beer is guilty of it, too, because some of these crazy, hazy IPAs that you’d wind up drinking, you’d wind up with a thousand calories. And some of these beers are super high in calories. It’s like eating a liquid loaf of sourdough bread. And the idea that seltzer is leading the way here and putting calories on the cans is going to start influencing a lot of this moving forward.

Z: Well, I think especially when it comes to wine and you listeners know I love wine, I love the wine industry in a lot of ways. But one problem that the wine industry has is it is a little bit sometimes up its own collective a** about the idea that everyone who drinks wine is drinking wine for these sort of high-minded, aesthetic pursuits. And yes, there is a fair bit of that, but people drink wine, as you said way back at the beginning of this episode, people drink because of alcohol. And people want alcohol, and people want what it does to them. And some people do not want, or they care about a lot of other considerations besides only the most, whatever terminology you want to ascribe to it, but we’ll say “snobby” reasons. And so I think that there is absolutely and totally room for and real demand for that kind of factual information about any product that anyone is going to consume. Beer, wine, spirits, et cetera. And and so I think that, again, the wine industry makes this mistake a lot of assuming that when they talk to connoisseurs, they are talking to the entirety of the wine industry. Even if you look at what sells in the wine space and the vast majority of sales are not what we would describe as wines of incredible terroir. That’s fine. That’s fair. Like, in no country is that true. There’s a lot of generic-a**, massive geographic blends in Europe, too, that are hugely popular and hugely successful because they’re inexpensive, and they do what people want. And the same thing is true in this country, whether they’re from this country or other places. And so providing that information for people is very, very useful. It’s something the wine industry should have been doing long ago, at least in certain categories. And I think more than anything else, what is important here is what we were discussing with the non-alcoholic products but is, I think, also true with this, which is some of these products may not be what everyone switches to. There are probably beer drinkers who only drink Michelob Ultra, but I bet there are a lot of people for whom that’s a part of their beer-drinking regimen. They drink it some days or they drink it as a pacer beer with other beers that are maybe higher in alcohol, higher in calories. But it’s a way for someone to continue to do a thing they enjoy, but is not quite as costly in terms of calorie count et cetera down the road. And I think some of these wine products, their use cases, in one use case is definitely that. As a part of a drinking experience that maybe is more about the people they are with, the place they’re at, not 10 seconds of contemplation on every sip. And that’s again, that is not meant to be derogatory. That’s how the vast majority of wine is consumed. It’s not sipping and swirling, it’s not chugging. exactly, but it’s drinking it as it is intended to be consumed.

A: Right. I completely agree with you. And I think that’s what makes wine so pleasurable for so many people, is that it’s just fun. And so if there’s certain days when you’d like to have that fun without as much of the guilt, then I think it’s really great that there are now these options. And thinking about that from a mindful perspective is really important. I think, look, at the end of the day all of anything we do should be done with intention, right? So Mark Bittman used to talk about this a lot in his New York Times column, like “eating with intention,” right? And he had this whole movement of like “vegan before 4:00 p.m.,” and this idea that, if you were going to eat meat, that you thought about it when you did eat meat and you only ate it at select times during the day in order to not only be better for your body, but to to be intentional about what you were consuming and how your consumption was impacting the environment. Same with the idea of eating the type of seafood we eat. And you’re not trying to deplete the oceans. And I think the same is true with how we consume drinks. It should be completely equal. We should think about what we drink. We should care about where those products come from. We should care about how they’re made. And we should be thoughtful about how we consume them and when we consume them. And I think that that’s going to be beneficial to all of us. And so that’s what we try to do during mindful drinking month. And really just highlight the fact that these are products that are really fun to get excited about and to also think about and to think about from both a standpoint of who’s making them and why and also how are we consuming them and why?

Z: Yeah, and I think you make an excellent point about trying to be mindful, sometimes getting talked about only as like “abstention from,” right? And I think that is a mistake. I think mindful consumption is consumption. It’s not “no consumption.” And I think there are obviously people for whom no consumption is the only safe and correct answer. And to those people I commend them for making that decision, reaching that place, and staying there. But I think for a lot of people the thing that is true and that you started this episode with contemplating is, we are at the same time in a culture that encourages consumption without a lot of thought in a lot of areas. It’s not just food and drink — in everything. And I think I could say, speaking for both of us, we encourage, in general, that you think about what you’re doing. I mean, obviously if you’re spending your time listening to us, you’re reading VinePair, you care about what you’re consuming. At least in this space, if not everywhere. And I think that January is a great month to begin that process. But I would also encourage that it be a year-long pursuit and in some months it’s going to be a little more tilted towards less mindfulness or more consumption. And in other months, it might be tilted towards more contemplation, less consumption. That’s all good. I think balance is sometimes not all about the same exact thing every day or every week or every month. It’s about finding an equilibrium, but you can sort of oscillate around that equilibrium point. But it is true that I think I might consider myself a much better and more satisfied beverage alcohol consumer the more mindful I am. Even if sometimes that thing is like, “holy s***, I need a drink right now.” Because that’s balanced out by the times when I don’t have a drink.

A: Exactly. Look I completely agree with you, man, and I love your point that you made, which is there should be intentionality with everything. And it’s not just this. Right? I know a ton of people this month who are taking social media breaks. I spoke to a friend. I was like, “Oh, yeah, I’m doing like a somewhat dry January,” and they were like, “Oh, I’m doing a somewhat dry social media January.” Just like I find myself thinking “Why am I always looking at my phone when there’s nothing else to do?” “How do I stop that behavior?” And the same kind of ideas. And that’s all healthy. and that’s really good. And so I think it’s great that we’re having these conversations about them because we should have them as opposed to just sort of being like “Well, if I have these conversations, then what does that say? Does that say that I don’t like drinking?” No, I love wine, I love beer, I love cocktails. I love hanging out with friends. I love getting together and having drinks and being really social. But I think it’s also important that these same conversations happen, too. One isn’t the opposite of the other, if that makes sense, right? I know that a lot of people are scared to have these conversations, because they wonder if that means they have a problem. No, it absolutely does not mean that you have a problem. It actually means the opposite. So anyways, I hope that everyone has a lovely month of January. I hope that we all move forward with more intention and mindfulness. And Zach, I’ll talk to you next week.

Z: Sounds great.

Thanks so much for listening to the VinePair Podcast. If you enjoy listening to us every week, please leave us a review or rating on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever it is that you get your podcasts. It really helps everyone else discover the show. Now for the credits, VinePair is produced by myself and Zach Geballe. It is also mixed and edited by him. Yeah, Zach, we know you do a lot. I’d also like to thank the entire VinePair team, including my co-founder, Josh, and our associate editor, Cat. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week.

Ed. note: This episode has been edited for length and clarity.

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