Miguel is Fine, Actually (Being Spider-Man's Just Toxic As Hell)
Before I watched ATSV I said that I would defend my man Miguel O'Hara's actions no matter what, because he's always valid and I support women's wrongs. I was joking, and I did not actually expect to start defending him on Tumblr.edu. But I'm seeing a lot of commentary that's super reductive, so I do want to bring up another perspective on his character.
Miguel wasn't acting against the spirit of Spider-Man, or what being Spider-Man means. Miguel isn't meant to represent the antithesis of Spider-Man. Miles is the antithesis of Spider-Man. Miguel represents Spider-Man taken to its extreme.
Think about Miguel's actions from his perspective. If you were a hero who genuinely, legitimately, 100%, no doubt about it, believed that somebody is going to make a selfish decision that will destroy an entire universe and put the entire multiverse at severe risk - if you had an over-burdened sense of responsibility and believed in doing the right thing no matter what - you would also chase down the kid and put him in baby jail to try and prevent it. He believed that he was saving the multiverse, and that Miles was putting it in danger for selfish reasons. Which is completely unforgivable to him, because selfishness is what he hates the most. And then he goes completely out of pocket and starts beefing with a 15yo lmfaooo he's such a dick.
But why did Miguel believe that? Why did he believe that Miles choosing himself and his own happiness over the well-being of others was the worst possible thing? Why did he believe that tragedy was inevitable in their lives, and that without tragedy Spider-Man can't exist?
Because he's Spider-Man.
Peter Parker was once a fifteen year old who chose his own happiness over protecting others. It was the greatest regret of his life and he never forgave himself. Peter's ethos means that he will put himself last every time, and that he will sacrifice anything and everything in his life - his relationships, his health, his future - to protecting and helping others. Peter dropped out of college because it interfered with Spider-Man. He destroyed his own future for Spider-Man. He ruins friendships and romantic relationships because Spider-Man was more important. If Peter ever tries to protect himself and his own happiness, then he's a bad person.
That is intrinsic to Peter. Peter would not be Peter without it. A story that is not defined by Peter's unhappiness is not a Spider-Man story. If Peter doesn't make himself miserable, then he's just not Peter.
That is a Spider-Man story: that not only is tragedy inevitable, that if you don't allow yourself to be defined by your tragedy then you're a bad person. If you don't suffer, then you're a bad person. If you ever put anything above Spider-Man, then you're killing Uncle Ben all over again. Miguel isn't the only one that believes this - as we saw, every Spider-Man buys into what he's saying. There's no Spider-Man without these beliefs.
Miguel attempted to find his own happiness, and he was punished in the most extreme way. He got Uncle Ben'd x10000. He tried to be happy, and it literally destroyed his entire universe. It's the Spider-narrative taken to the extreme. Of course Miguel believes all of this. Of course he believes this so firmly. He's Spider-Man. That's his story. And the one time Miguel tried to fight against that story, he was punished. And like any Spider-Man, he'll slavishly obey that narrative no matter the evil it creates and perpetuates. Because if he doesn't, the narrative will punish him. The narrative will always punish him. It's a Spider-Man story.
I don't think the universal constant between Spider-Mans, the thing that makes them Spider-Man, is tragedy. I think it's the fact that they never forgive themselves. And Miguel is what that viewpoint creates. He doesn't believe this things because he's an awful, mean person. He believes them because he's a hero. He's a good person who hates himself.
Across the Spider-verse isn't really a Spider-Man story. It's a story about Spider-Man stories. Miguel's right: if this was a Spider-Man story, then Miles acting selfishly really would destroy the universe. But Miles' story isn't interested in punishing him. It pushes back against Peter's narrative that unhappiness is inevitable and that you have to suffer to be a good person. It says that sometimes we do the right thing from love and not fear, and that Peter's way of thinking is ultimately super toxic and unhappy. ITSV was about Miles deciding that he didn't need to be Peter Parker, that all he needed to be was Miles, and ATSV is about how being Peter Parker isn't such a good thing. Miguel shows that. Whatever toxic and unhealthy beliefs he holds - they're the exact same beliefs that any Spider-Man holds. He's a dick, but I don't think he's any more awful a person than Peter is.
TL;DR: Miguel isn't a bad person, he just has Spider-Man brainrot.
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tell us more abt sam and val plsplspls they are the backbone of our society i love hearing abt them
ofc ofc!! i love talking about them lmao
The story itself is called Retrograde and Sam and Val are the two main characters!
(Brace yourself it's kinda long!)
Val:
Personality wise he's pretty reserved, doesn't really say much unless needed, he's more open with people he's close to
Though he may look moody, he's actually just awkward
Currently he's working as a bounty hunter to pay his rent and keep the license but really it's just a title and he just goes around accepting odd jobs that pay him
He doesn't kill people so he instead chooses to beat them up real bad and turn them in
Val isn't his real name, it's just a nickname. Barely anyone knows his real name aside from one or two people.
Doesn't have the best past (original i know but its plot relevant) but he's working through his mistakes and trying to make amends with himself and others
He was found drifting in the river on the verge of death but was miraculously revived by a doctor who ran a small clinic nearby
He got into bounty hunting because he could make a living while not having to disclose his identity.
His eyes are actually not normal and are in fact a genetic condition he was born with! He gets a lotta stares and comments for it but he doesn't really care atp
Actually ridiculously good at dancing, he won a lot of competitions for ballroom dancing when he was in highschool and he could've gone professional if it weren't for certain other reasons
Because of his weirdly unique talent, he's really agile which makes him good at close hand combat
He's the one who drives both him and Sam around because he's the only one who has a hoverbike and can drive
Things he likes:
Ballet performances
The spicy shrimp noodles from his favorite thai restaurant
Cheesy romcoms (a secret)
Cats
Driving his hoverbike 30 miles above the speed limit
Things he doesn't like
Fire
Large crowds
Bugs (especially spiders)
People who don't respond to text messages
Messy eaters
Sam:
He's gonna have a longer description cause he's pretty plot relevant for the beginning
He's a pretty easy going guy, in many ways the opposite Val
Easy to get along with, most of the time he's pretty chill so he doesn't find it too hard to talk to people
Not really an extrovert tho, somewhere in the middle but still social if that makes sense
Val found him in an underground cave sleeping in a pod like thing while on a bounty
Somehow he managed to open the pod and wake Sam up, only to find out he has no recollection of anything that's happened to him nor who he is or his name
They decided to call him 'Sam' for now because it was printed on the tag hanging from his left ear
The last thing Sam remembers before waking up is a giant flash and burning buildings
Based on the weird room, sleeping pod, and the weird suit he's wearing, the two figure out that Sam's been asleep for a lot longer than he thought (more than 500 years)
He's actually from the Previous Era, which was an old civilization a lot more technologically advanced than the Current Era but was destroyed by a cataclysmic explosion (wonder what caused it?)
So Sam is technically many many years old atp but is still mentally the same age as Val
As you can guess he doesn't really take this very well
Turns out there was another pod next to Sam's pod that's been opened meaning that he may not be alone
Sam decides he wants to recover his lost memories and find out what happened to him and also find the person in the other pod, or at least what happened to them
Since he has no idea what the current era is like he enlists Val's help in exchange for helping him pay his rent.
He decides to keep his true identity a secret to not draw attention
He's actually really good at fighting and can hold up with Val pretty well so the two become partners
He's got these strange metal implants inside him, the most visible one around his neck which he's a bit self conscious about.
He doesn't know why it's there but it might have something to do with the blue ring above his head
The halo only turns off when he sleeps/lies down but seems to be above his head no matter what (he doesn't like it cause it draws a lot of attention)
His eyes are really unnatural and actually glow in the dark, another thing that freaks him out
His hair is naturally coral pink and not dyed (which is also a bit strange but not as much as the other things in his opinion)
Sam can't really read well, he's not sure if it's because he never learnt to read or the language has changed so much since he went to sleep, he's also not great at math
Kinda thanks to this he's also not great at budgeting and sometimes spends a lot of money on useless things that piques his interest (which causes him and val to do more bounties, much to val's dismay)
Even though he can be kind of an idiot sometimes, he does his best to fix his mistakes and make it up to people
Weapon of choice is dual guns!
Things he likes:
Sweet drinks (he's got a bad addiction to boba, milkshakes, and smoothies)
Arcade games (sucks at the fighting games but really good at rhythm games)
Astronomy (he knows nearly every constellation and its position by memory, it's kinda scary)
Action movies
Things he doesn't like:
Needles
Narrow hallways and closed spaces
Horror movies
Bugs (they're both screwed i know)
Some other fun facts !!
They live together in Val's apartment, they alternate sleeping on the couch and bed since Val felt bad
Even though Val said he'd only help Sam if he helped pay his rent, he actually didn't mind helping him for free and only added that because Sam insisted
Val is the only one who can cook out of the two, however that doesn't mean he's good at it, so they usually just order out most of the time
The world they live in is a mix between futuristic and post apocalyptic, yeah there's still technology but it's not as great as it was before
Part of this was because after the collapse of the previous era, rebuilding took a crazy long time and there was a big power struggle until the current government took control
There was a 4 year long civil war that happened and ended around 5 years before Sam woke up
There's currently a large supply shortage so for the past few decades so some technology has regressed
Their world is technically an alternate universe of our world, the divergent point happened around the late 1940s, I could go into it more but it's not that plot relevant but it is the reason they don't have a lot of today's modern technology despite it being many years into the future
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hey i'm the one who asked if you were a terf. I apologize for making it seem like an accusation, I've seen you reblog trans friendly stuff so I was confused but I shouldn't have worded it like that. I'm also not an expert with terf dogwhistles and stuff, but I do have shinigami eyes so the blog was highlighted in red. the blog is femmesandhoney and you reblogged their post from radgalacticacrew (this one is not highlighted).
And yeah, I get it, it's not like every single one of their posts are hateful bullshit, so you couldn't have known and no one combs through every blog they reblog from. I made a hasty judgment for something obvious to me and not to you (thanks to shinigami eyes) when I could just have given you a heads-up that you reblogged a terf. Again, sorry about that !
No worries. I appreciate the heads up that I was (unintentionally) engaging with terfs and the blogs in question so I can block them. I definitely don't want to come off as being at all affiliated with terfs so I'm glad to know I may have accidentally been giving that impression so I can fix it. I'm hoping to hunt down whatever secret terf I'm following so tumblr will stop reccomending me their innocuous-on-the-surface-but-with-terfy-undertones likes. In the meantime tho I'll block the blogs you pointed out so I don't make that mistake again.
I *have* heard of shingami eyes and DO think it's a cool idea, but I guess I'm also a little hesitant to do it myself. This kind of like "the computer/algorithm/program tells you who's Problematic" thing just feels a bit too close to, like, McCarthyism for me? I don't know how things get flagged and if they go through human review and what the guidelines are (which, to be fair, I might be able to find out, I haven't looked), but I always just feel like I'd rather personally see someone being shitty and suspicious and react to that than be informed by someone else/a program that someone is a Suspicious Person. But at the same time, clearly it's not like the program auto-blocks anyone flagged, it's just a heads up so you can do your own investigating, so I get it. I'm just not sure it's my vibe. But also my current strategy isn't 100% effective so it may be worth considering additional tools. 🤷♀️ something for me to think abt for sure.
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