#tsoa neoptolemus

[who-tf-is-ana]

So I wanted to know how long it took for Thetis to write Patroclus’ name, and she mentions that Pyrrhus was dead and that was the reason for her visits to Achilles resting place…

On google it says Pyrrhus died when he was around 46; meaning that Patroclus’ spirit was left wandering/trapped between worlds for 34 years!!!

IT TOOK 34 YEARS FOR PATROCLUS AND ACHILLES TO BE REUNITED!!

Someone tell me rn that I am wrong because this is destroying me😐

#bisexual #tsoa madeline miller #tsoa #tsoa spoilers #tsoa achilles #tsoa patroclus #tsoa patrochilles #achilles x patroclus #patroclus #achilles #patrochilles #the song of achilles #books #thetis #tsoa thetis #pyrrhus #tsoa pyrrhus #neoptolemus #tsoa neoptolemus

[pintsofguinnesmakeyoustrong]

odysseus: your father wished that his ashes be mixed with patroclus' so that they could be together in the underworld, the way i would want to be with my wife

neoptolemus: but my father had no such wife!

odysseus:

#people are gay neoptolamus #the song of achilles #tsoa #madeline miller #song of achilles #greek mythology #mythology memes #classics #classics memes #achilles #tsoa achilles #patroclus #tsoa patroclus #odysseus #tsoa odysseus #neoptolemus #tsoa neoptolemus #the x files #fox mulder #david duchovny

[ungodlysai]

On a scale of godly genocide or a war-fueling tantrum, how well do you think Achilles took finding out his son kept him and Patroclus apart?

#patrochilles #achilles #patroclus #patroklus #achillesandpatroclus #greek mythology #tsoa achilles #ancient greek #historical inaccuracies #quotes #madeline miller #the song of achilles #tsoa spoilers #inaccurate greek mythology #tsoa #Achilles son #neoptolemus #pyrrhus

[random-krab]

TSOA rant

I think it is time i bring up my change of tags If you don’t know or haven’t noticed I have changed most tags on my Iliad and “TSOA” posts tags to Anti-madeline miller, there are multiple reasons for this for one re-reading Tsoa her blatant fetishism of gay men is clear and she misuses the mythology and each characters original characterization, But i’m getting ahead of myself.  I’m going to start with Patroclus because he is a protagonist in this, which I admit isn’t a bad idea in itself but she changes so much about him that is hard to recognize but let's start with his age, while we don’t know his exact age we do know that he is older than Achilles because he was a squire, role model, and counsel to him, But she changes this which I admit makes sense when trying to appeal to a modern audience but in doing that you strip him of any solo characterization and authority, He goes from an angry boy to a generally calm man who can make good decisions which really makes his choice to go into battle in disguise really impactful. But she changes that and therefore changes his original personality. Speaking of personality she does something bluntly homophobic which is the feminization of Patroclus’s character, Patroclus goes from a very good warrior, strategist and medic to only a medic in her “Retelling” it is very reminiscent of the “Warrior husband and Healer wife” trope as pointed out by @booklover42 on my "Tsoa isn't accurate" Post; fun fact; most death counts either end with Patroclus having a higher or same body count as Achilles and It is never hidden that he is a fighter.

Speaking of Achilles. Achilles is probably the worst in this. A Lot of his personality, relationships, and actions are retconned which is weird for someone like madeline miller who claims to care about the mythology and accuracy of her “retellings” to do. The first thing I really hate is his relationship with Thetis, his mother. Her overall characterization is horrible, in the iliad she is a caring mother who might be slightly overbearing but she isn’t nearly as bad as she is in this. Her interactions with Patroclus automatically turns the reader against her even after finding out she was forced into marriage.

AND SPEAKING OF MARRIAGE. I will say this over and over and over again. Achilles was sexually attracted to women and men (or at least patroclus). You have no idea how angry I get when I see posts talking about how Achilles was gay. Because 2 things 1. No he wasn’t, he was just Greek literally no one would care about him having a male lover (expect maybe Peleus even then it would be more about the heir aspect of yk having a wife) the only point anyone has a thing to say about his relationship with Patroclus in a negative light is in  that one Shakespearean play where they just complain that they are having too much sex and aren’t doing anything. And Actually saying he was gay is weird because they didn’t have a word for it (Well actually that's kind of a lie they had pederasty, eromenos, and Kinaidos but uh) and 2. He had a wife and at least 1 sex slave of which I will get into later. But on to the marriage thing, His marriage to Deidamia wasn’t her sexually assaulting him or really even forced by thetis like it's implied (actually in one account its said that Achilles sexually assaulted her) but like no, in most versions they just started a intimate relationship while he was in disguise and eventually got married and then he left for war. She wasn’t a big character in the Iliad but she was nowhere near as antagonistic and Madeline miller describes her as. Another fun fact actually Neoptolemus was never taken by thetis?, I don’t know where Madeline got that from but it was in none of the sources I read. But Deidamia actually begged and tried to convince Neoptolemus not to go to war just like Thetis did with Achilles. And Actually let me get to the sex slave  Briseis, someone everyone loves in tsoa but her original character is nice, like actually she doesn’t have a lot of screen time but she is a good character, she was someone of decent standing reduced to a sex slave and a prisoner of war and a thing to be passed off and taken away at a king's wish not to mention she was promised that she would be married but achilles died before they had the chance and when his son arrived and wanted her she would rather try to run away and die in the process then be handed off to him. She is an amazing character and she is a good representation of what war looked like for the people taken captive but in tsoa she is made to be a pity character only used to make the main characters look like good men. I have nothing else to say at least right now anyway I may add to this later but yeah

#the iliad #ancient greek mythology #greek mythology #achilles #greek myth #anti madelin miller #anti tsoa #tsoa #rant #hate rant #neoptolemus #patroclus #deidamia #tagamemnon

[koruga]

madeline miller was so mean to neoptolemus this boy is full of honour and daddy issues. he couldn't even do a war crime to get philoctetes's bow right. he just came to do battle and everyone was dead or exhausted, he wants to do his parents proud.

#DC talks #anti tsoa #neoptolemus #pyrrhus

[frogs-are-cool-but-so-is-medea]

why do people say that thetis is homophobic in tsoa when its actually neoptolemus. like thetis is like "ur not good enough for my son" which isnt homophobic and neoptolemus is just "what. no. my father who i never met with some guy? burried with him? nah" which maybe isnt homophobic but is much closer than "i dont like you get away from my son"

#pls dont kill me #its just an opinion of a stupid teenager #tsoa #thetis #neoptolemus #achilles #patroclus #greek mythology

[gwensparlour]

Achilles in TSOA and most fics: I don't care about Neoptolemus. I never really wanted him Achilles in the Iliad and Odyssey: Oh, is my child alright? My child whom I say is "godlike"? Enough talking about me Odysseus, tell me about my son

#the iliad #the odyssey #achilles #the song of achilles #neoptlemus #pyrrhus

[encrucijada]

I love your blog and your hatred for TSOA. Besides the Thetis' dad name and the heroes-constellation thing (and the pressed olives spoof), are there other things she's gotten wrong? I'm new to mythology and want to be critical of what I read, but everywhere I visit it's just praises of her work

patroclus

just. his entire thing

patroclus is a soldier just like achilles. being older than achilles he had experience achilles did not and often counselled him in battle. he handled achilles divine horses and he participated in the war with troy. there is a reason achilles agrees to let him put on his armour and lead the myrmidons in his place: patroclus was good at war. he was a mortal man who managed to kill sarpedon son of zeus. he wasn't weak. he wasn't pathetic. he wasn't a healer. frankly i have no idea where madeline even got that from to include in her book. i tried looking up if there was any mythological info on patroclus as a healer and all i got was that, again, patroclus was a soldier. maybe it's because he was friendly with the camp physician??

also achilles. he loved both deidameia and briseis, or he at least he was attracted to them. madeline bending over backwards to make him gay gave us a blatant disrespect of deidameia which is the only part of the book that made me cry (out of frustration and anger). and turned them sleeping together into a rape scene???? orchestrated by thetis who is Also disrespected because all the women are in this fucking book.

madeline turned thetis into a homophobic mum who doesn't approve of her son's boyfriend, which... i don't think i have to say isn't what happens in the mythology. achilles liked women. he had sex with them. he liked having sex with them. this does not negate he had a romantic and possibly sexual relationship with patroclus.

thetis liked patroclus in the iliad. she offered to look after his corpse and keep it from decaying while achilles returned to battle. also: achilles was the one who asked her to make the achaeans lose because he was disrespected, not the other way around. i also feel the need to say the remaining conflict of shade!patroclus is so funny to me because there is an entire book in the iliad dedicated to his funeral games. the army liked him and gave him a proper burial lol

in regards to neoptolemus (achilles' son) from what i can see him being a heartless brutal killer seems to be a roman invention but this is only from a quick wikipedia read, i could be wrong. though i do remember him being portrayed as the compassionate one when i read philoctetes.

#answered #anti madeline miller #anti tsoa #tsoa

[floralcavern]

TSOA - Tying Up Lose Ends - Part 5 (Finale)

Previous

A soft breeze ran through the golden hair of Achilles. I always liked his hair. He rested on my chest, having cried himself to sleep. My lips were red and raw and his were too and I could still feel him shaking. 

I was never much of a crier, but even I shed a tear or two when we had at last found each other. 

I caress his neck softly. We had not let each other go. He had been none stop sobbing for the past 2 days. I’m starting to think he’s going to cling onto me for all of eternity. But, truthfully, I don’t hate that idea. 

The other heroes of the Elysian Fields gave us curious glances and would attempt to ask questions, but Achilles would glare at them and force them to back off. 

But now that Achilles was sleeping, they approached quietly. 

“So, you’re Patroclus?” Asked one, Theseus. 

“Yes, I am,” I answer softly. 

“You don’t look like a warrior.”

“I’m really not.. but I suppose I’m still seen as a hero.”

“We were wondering who was the person that could make the Aristos Achaoin so.. weak?” Bellerophon said before giving Achilles a nervous look to see if he heard him. 

“Hm.. well.. here I am.. hah..” In all honesty, I didn’t know how to talk to the people here. Yes, I’ve spoken with warriors, but these men were ancient heroes. And while Achilles may count as one of them, I never counted him as one. To me, he was always just Achilles. And that was always enough. 

In the distance, I saw one watching, glaring. I recognize his fiery red hair and sour face. Neoptolemus. 

I choose to ignore him. The mere thought of him makes my blood boil, but I don’t dare try to provoke him. For a number of reasons, really. 

One, he is Achilles’ son. Two, I want to put everything, the war, the pain, the loneliness, I want to put it all behind me. 

Achilles began to stir and all of the other warriors quickly got up to leave. 

He looked up at me. I smiled. He smiled too, but it was sad. He reaches up to kiss me. I caress his hair and he pulls away. His face is now sad and I brace myself to comfort his tears. 

“I’m so sorry, Patroclus..”

I was surprised. This whole time through his tears, he hasn’t managed to get any words through. 

The tears began to come and he wrapped his arms around my waist. “I’m so sorry.. I’m sorry.. I’m so sorry for my pride. For my own stupidity. For my selfishness. I’m so sorry..”

His breath is ragged and I feel his quivering. I rub his back, hoping to comfort him and remind him that I am here. That everything turned out ok. 

“I’m so fucking sorry..!” He choked out. 

I kiss his shoulder, but instead of comforting him, he only cries more. 

“Achilles..” I whisper. He doesn’t respond. He can’t respond. And, truthfully.. that’s ok. 

I don’t try to have him stop. I let him cry. I let him apologize. I let him let out all his sorrow so that way once it’s all gone.. we can spend out eternity of peace together. 

So, I can wait. I can wait for his tears to subside. I can wait for him to remember how much I love him. 

I wait for him to remember my oath to him that I shall stay by his side.. forever. 

@peggy-sue-reads-a-book

@cyborg0109

#TSOA #The Song of Achilles #Achilles #Patroclus #Patrochilles #fanfic

[peggy-sue-reads-a-book]

Patrochilles Week

Day 1: This and this and this

I believe the focus of TSOA to be Patroclus’s grief process rather than his life story for its own sake. It’s character driven and it is completely linear from his birth to entrance into the underworld like a normal memoir, yes. However, it is significant that the conclusion isn’t Patroclus’s death, but the peace he is finally given. The narrative ends abruptly the moment he is reunited with Achilles. While we imagine they embrace and enjoy a happy afterlife together, the fact that the mere meeting of their hands ends the conflict feels important. The final pages are so stark that every word counts. “This and this and this” which he shares with Thetis has symbolic power besides just persuading her to write his name on their grave.

And as a symbol, it’s amazing. Mourning plays a huge role in the novel, just as in the Iliad. Achilles, in many ways, refuses to mourn. Patroclus is “air and thought and can do nothing” so long as Achilles spends his last days pursuing revenge and refusing to cremate his body. Ironically, neither the extravagant funeral nor the violence done in his name give Patroclus what he really needs — a name. There is no peace for him so long as he is left without identity.

Patroclus does something really brave. First of all, I want to acknowledge his compassion for Achilles; not once does he resent him for neglecting his appropriate burial. Achilles wasn’t ready. He dies in a combination of anger and denial. Patroclus is wise enough to understand you can’t force loss-adjustment on anyone — especially yourself.

Secondly, he seeks his own peace. He asks Odysseus. When that doesn’t work, he faces Thetis. What’s so profound about his story is the emotional courage it takes to face the kind of memories he shares in the raw, visceral language he chooses. By going fully into the Achilles’s beauty and skill and tenderness, he accepts the depth of his grief. Paradise and Lost are equally operative words, so to speak.

After Achilles, Odysseus, and Neoptolemus successively fail to give Patroclus a peaceful burial, in a way, he does it for himself. Yes, literally Thetis writes his name, but by openly grieving, Patroclus gives shape to his own identity. After twenty eight years in Achilles shadow and forty years completely invisible, Pat has had enough. Even the title of the book has Achilles’ name, not his. His obscurity is apparent before you’ve even opened the cover. It’s not until the absolute last page we finally get the visual poetry of their names parallel to one another. “… Achilles, and beside it Patroclus.” Behind all the rants about fame importance is the gentle message: no one deserves to be forgotten. Not a queer-coded side character, not anyone else. It’s not enough to be “made of memories.” The name on the grave is a present reality, set in stone.

And after four thousand years of western canon, we get to read it too.

#patrochilles week 2022 #Patroclus #the song of achilles #achilles #greek mythology #madeline miller #the iliad #patrochilles #tsoa madeline miller #achilles x patroclus #tsoa

[who-tf-is-ana]

The fact that Achilles saw Neoptolemus (Pyrrhus) before he got to see Patroclus ruins me. I hope Achilles socked that meddling mf😤 and then gave Patroclus a massive fucking hug and apology for his offspring being such a petulant, meddling asshole

“Taints my father’s reputation” my ass! Patroclus saved his reputation, your fathers pride almost destroyed his reputation…jeez kid do your research🙄

#genuinely hate this kid more then Agamemnon #I know he is just 12 or whatever but idgaf #bisexual #tsoa #the song of achilles #pyrrhus #neoptolemus #achilles #tsoa patroclus #patroclus #tsoa achilles #achilles x patroclus #patrochilles #tsoa patrochilles #tsoa spoilers

[smolandweirdwriter]

#the song of achilles #patroclus #achilles #patrochilles #madeline miller #circe by madeline miller #the odyssey #telegonus #odysseus #penelope #hector of troy #paris of troy #helen of troy #epic the musical #greek myths #the illiad #diomedes #briseis #aristos the musical #aristos achaion #myrmidon #peleus #thetis #clytemnestra #tagamemnon #menelaus #neoptolemus

[screwby-dawg]

straightwashing his own father seems just like what a son full of filial affection for his father would do. yes im talking about pyrrus. i don’t usually condone violence, but this kid needs to go the chokey.

also,

pyrrus: (doesn’t honor patroclus)

achilles: (watches the whole thing in the underworld) you fucking kid i-

#neoptolemus #pyrrus #tsoa #achilles #patroclus #achilles x patroclus #patrochilled #incorrect tsoa #greekmyth #greekmythology #meme #song of achilles #the song of achilles #madeline miller

[classics-cassandra]

Neoptolemus about to kill Priam:

#Neoptolemus is baby and I will stand by that sorry #Aeneid 2 #the Aeneid #virgil’s aeneid #Virgil memes #Aeneid memes #classics memes #ancient literature memes #Latin #Latin literature #latin literature memes #Latin memes #tagamemnon #ancient rome #the iliad #the song of achilles #tsoa #pyrrhus #neoptolemus

[5688xoxo]

Okay, so y’know when Odysseus goes to Pyrrhus in the middle of the night after Patroclus’s spirit haunts him to mark Patroclus’s name on his and Achilles’s grave? 

So, Odysseus says something along the lines of “I’m sorry to disturb you this late.”

And so Pyrrhus replies by saying, “I do not sleep.”

Is that why he is so grouchy and murder-y and homophobic and doesn’t let his dad and his soulmate reunite? 

Moral of the story: having a proper sleep schedule helps you remain sane. Take a nap!!

#pyrrhus #neoptolemus #odysseus #patroclus #achilles #patrochilles #achilles x patroclus #tsoa #i need a nap

[quovadisbro]

"Pyrrhus is just Achilles without Patroclus and Yut-Lung is just Ash without Eiji"

#banana fish #asheiji #ash lynx #eiji okumura #ash x eiji #yut lung lee #the song of achilles #tsoa #achilles #patroclus x achilles #patrochilles #patroclus #pyrrhus #neoptolemus