#was nmj and please don't forget it!

[poorlittleyaoyao]

is jgy different in the books than in the untamed? sorry if u haven’t read them im kind of just assuming u have even tho i haven’t lol but i was wondering if his characterization has any major differences like how wwx in novel vs untamed they sort of sanitize him and take away any culpability and honestly some of his edge. just curious if there’s any major differences in his characterization between the two

I'm not the best person to answer because I've only read the first two volumes of MDZS. Short answer: Yes, he is different, and in fact gets the reverse of WWX's treatment: Drama JGY is more overtly villainous than Novel JGY. However, IMO it's a little more complicated than that!

(Novel enjoyers, please chime in if I'm forgetting or misrepresenting anything.)

A lot of JGY fans greatly prefer the novel and feel that The Untamed did him dirty, because a lot of the show's plot changes that make WWX look better make JGY look worse. Jin Zixuan's death is the most glaring one: in the novel, WWX really does lose control of WN because he overestimates his abilities, and it's a tragic accident. JGY and SMS's implied involvement in the Massacre at Nightless City also doesn't happen in the novel; that, too, was a devastated WWX wreaking havoc and/or losing control. The novel also establishes that JGY is subject to abuse within Jinlintai, so there's an element of duress that one can read into his actions under JGS. Novel NMJ behaves more aggressively towards JGY than he does in the show, so his murder doesn't have the same tinge of malice. (The novel timeline also has JGY and LXC meeting before JGY and NMJ, all during Sunshot, so there's that.) Additionally, the novel tells us that JGY is genuinely a very good leader once he's Chief Cultivator and has implemented policies that have improved the lives of regular people and contributed to political stability. We're also told more about his childhood and his love for his mother, and we learn that his relationship with QS is a tragic love story (he doesn't know they're related until after she's pregnant) rather than something he went through with anyway. So in the novel, he's got a lot of positive things going for him that censorship didn't allow to carry over into the show for fear of having too much moral ambiguity.

HOWEVER!!!

The thing about the novel (and why I don't vibe with it as much) is that it's very much WWX's story, whereas The Untamed spends wayyyyy more time with its supporting cast. You might've noticed that I said the word "told" a lot in the above paragraph, because... well, that's what happens. We're told things about JGY, but we don't see him as much, especially since the novel is focused on the post-timeskip era with the stuff in the past coming through non-linear flashbacks. You don't get to see Meng Yao being Just A Little Guy very much before he becomes the Kitten Thinks About Nothing But Murder All Day meme. Now, you also don't hear dramatic music telegraphing HEY!!! HEY!! VILLAINY IS AFOOT!! HEY!!! every time JGY does literally anything, but you do have everything filtered through WWX's unreliable narrator monologue, and he is out there saying some truly wild shit. (You also get less Xiyao. Like, it's there if you want it to be, but The Untamed really went all-in on that.)

For me, the show works better, because I am a sucker for corruption arcs where you see glimpses of the character before they start the atrocities. Seeing him be Just A Little Guy making the saddest meow meow faces when people were mean to him kept me from totally losing sympathy for/interest in him once things start getting squicky, because I had evidence that he wasn't always like that. Meanwhile, JGY's first big scene in the novel is the confrontation with QS (which already makes my skin crawl and is somehow WORSE in novel form), and I was just like "wow, this guy sucks" even though I knew the story and all the extenuating circumstances already. For others, the novel works better, because "first impressions and society's opinion are unreliable" is a major theme, so the reverse reveal combined with the fact that he demonstrably tries to improve people's lives as a leader is less expected and more satisfying.

So yeah! JGY is different, but the ways in which he is different are due to storytelling methods as well as to plot changes!

[tavina-writes]

Sorry may I ask you a question? Your meta is so interesting! In mdzs "debts" is a recurring theme and can you please explain it? I've read meta about how in Chinese culture jc's owed the wen siblings a debt and he should have saved them, but I've also read meta about how he owed a hugger debt to his own sect. I've read how jgy killed whr and nmj, people who he owned his educations (debts). I thought that mdzs was more about "Who is wrong? Who is right?" so that everyone is a bit wrong and a bit right but this kind of meta make me doubt myself and think that maybe in mdzs someone is really morally right (wwx and lwj) and everyone else is wrong. I am going a little crazy, that's why I asked you. Anyway, thanks in advance and have a good day!

Hi Nonny!

There's no need to apologize for sending an ask! I love asks!

Regarding your question about debts and what is "owed" in relationships, I think it's important to clarify that like, presumably if someone saved your life you'd also owe them a debt of gratitude, a life debt, or however and whichever other 'debt' terminology you'd care to use there. So this concept of "debt" because you owe someone for doing something for you is not in and of itself a 'unique to Chinese culture' problem, and I think looking at "oh this person "owes" this other person a thing" is not entirely a great? way to analyze how character relationships "should" or should not go. There are lots of ways we as people in a society owe other people in our society and the characters in this book, much like us, are trapped in a confluence of factors that pull them in different directions regarding what they should or should not do.

The book itself (at least from my own opinion) is meant to read as "everyone is both right and wrong at various points in this text because this is a book with complex characters and not a morality lesson" because lest we forget, WWX made a woman eat a chair leg at one point, which. We cannot say this was correct in really anything except the most reductive main character centric interpretation.

Regarding debts themselves that say, WangXian might owe their families in accordance to their society that sound just about the same as the examples mentioned above, we can say things like "since Wei Wuxian was raised by the Jiang, he should've been helping Jiang Cheng rebuilding Lotus Pier instead of sitting around drinking or running off with the Wen!" or "how dare Lan Wangji injure thirty-three of his family elders, doesn't he know he should've been filial to them and owed his education and position in society to the Lan Sect?" and "why is it that WangXian got to go fuck in a bush at the end of the story when other people who arguably did fewer crimes end up dead? Does this mean they owed less to society or made all the right choices compared to say, the other people who are still in fact super dead and don't get to fuck their beloved in a bush?"

Does this start to look like this concept of "debts" doesn't,,, actually explain anything about the moral complexities of the character's situations? That's because it isn't a good indicator of if character x made a moral choice or not.

But again, this whole concept of "debts" to explain why a character does a thing and why they're morally good or evil and reprehensible for not doing this other thing is entirely a thing fandom does in meta to make their fave look good or character they're an anti about look extremely bad under a case of "well ACKSHUALLY morality says they SHOULD HAVE done this!" None of these characters exist either as Perfectly Moral Beings or Perfectly Evil Immoral Beings inside a decision making vacuum.

It...also doesn't really matter if your fave is right or wrong either :D just for context. They're all fictional blorbos upon a page and or screen. No real person was harmed in over the course of the story. No woman deep throated a chair leg, no child was tossed down the stairs, no groups of people were massacred, no brothers were abandoned, no one was poisoned with rage disease until they died, nobody committed incest... etc etc and honestly debating about if fictional characters were right or wrong fascinates me a lot less than "what does the story tell us about what drove them and made them tick?" and "what adaptational and translational choices did other people before me make about this story and do I agree with them on their adaptational choices."

:( sorry this came out so messy anon! I just don't think the "did this character repay their debts -> is this character a good person -> a morally good character therefore doesn't owe anyone anything anymore and if they do owe someone something that doesn't count/no they don't." pipeline is particularly useful from an analyzing the story standpoint.

#don't actually come debate in my notes or my inbox on if wangxian owe their families anything #or if this one debt a character has outweighs the other things that also act on their lives #like actually i am begging y'all to not #the debts debate means almost nothing! there are a lot of things everyone owes everyone else! #mo dao zu shi #the untamed #my meta #meta #asks and answers

[jaimebluesq]

I know you have a lot of WIPs, but if you're still taking requests, could you write a take on Nie Huaisang and Nie Mingjue's reunion after NMJ's release from Nightless City? Maybe NHS caring for his Da-ge? No Niecest sexytimes please, just two brothers who are each other's world. Thank you!

I'm always up for requests!!! And I read your request and was immediately in my head, thinking I had a WIP on that very topic - and I did! And I've just worked on it a bit more to flesh it out - still rough, so not ready for AO3 posting, but here's what I have of it so far :D

Warning: Nie Bros Feels ahead!

~ ~ ~

Nie Huaisang slowed his horse as he approached the Nie Sect's camp near Nightless City. He'd received word just over a day earlier that the war had ended, that the Sunshot campaign was victorious in taking out the evil of Wen Ruohan, and he'd quickly packed up a handful of items before saddling up his horse in the stables. Two other disciples had insisted on joining him to protect him along the roads, and the three of them had made record time reaching Qishan.

The closer they came to Nightless City, however, the more evidence of the war they saw. There were dead bodies everywhere wearing various shades of sect colours, defaced emblems and signs that had once stood proudly announcing the territory belonged to the Wen Sect, and large chunks taken out of the earth from the sheer power the cultivators had been using against one another. Once again he was thankful not to be a fighter, that he'd missed seeing all of this carnage up close and personal.

As he neared the camp, he saw a few disciples who appeared to be in good spirits. They recognized him immediately and helped him and his guards dismount, leading their horses away to be cared for after their hard journey. He asked the directions to his brother's tent and tried to make his way through the camp, though he was stopped every now and then by disciples calling out his name and asking him to share a toast with them to victory.

He paused when he saw a familiar face sitting by a nearby fire, hands running a sharpening stone over one of two sabers sitting in his lap. Nie Huaisang approached, making certain to step as noisily as possible before reaching out to place a hand on the man's shoulder.

“Nie-er-gongzi,” the man said before he even lifted his head, and when he did, he gave a half-smile up at Nie Huaisang. His eyes were weary with dark circles underneath, and there was a healing scar across his jaw on the left side, but otherwise he looked well.

“Nie Zonghui.” He didn't think it would be proper to say aloud I'm happy you survived, even if that's how he felt. “Of course you would be maintaining your weapons while the others are celebrating their victory.”

Nie Zonghui glanced over at a pair of disciples nearby who were doing just that with bottles of wine and joyful singing, and nodded. “They deserve it. They worked hard, everyone did.”

“As did you,” he said softly, patting Nie Zonghui's shoulder before taking his hand back. “Don't forget to rest and take care of yourself, or else I'll tell Da-ge.”

Nie Zonghui's expression shuttered. “You're on your way to his tent.” Nie Huaisang nodded. “Good. He's barely left it all day, and any of us who try to check on him get sent away.”

“Did something happen?”

“He led a group to infiltrate Nightless City while the rest of us were fighting outside.” Nie Zonghui paused, his voice turning rough. “There were... casualties.”

And knowing Nie Mingjue, he would be placing most of the responsibility for their loss on himself, no matter who committed the act. “Thank you for the warning.”

He left Nie Zonghui's side and reached the large, central tent at the same time as another disciple holding a tray with food upon it. The moment she set eyes upon him, she sighed in relief. “Nie-er-gongzi, it's good that you're here. I was just about to bring this to Nie-zongzhu's tent...”

“Has he eaten at all today?” She shook her head. He tried to offer her a small smile and took the tray from her hands. “I'll make sure he eats something.” She gave a quick bow and scurried away before he could change his mind and call her back.

He pulled the tent flap aside and walked in, wrinkling his nose at the scents of blood and metal and stale sweat. There was some light coming in from a small window flap, enough for him to see the space in disarray, a tray of uneaten food upon a low table, and there on the tent's lone cot, a large figure bent forward, head cradled in his hands and hair tangled around his guan. Nie Huaisang set the tray next to the other and tried to approach his brother carefully.

“Da-ge?” He tried to step as noisily as he had for Nie Zonghui, not wanting to startle his brother. “Da-ge, I'm here. I came as soon as I heard the news.

“You should have stayed at home.” Nie Mingjue's eyes only just flicked up to glance at him. “You didn't come alone, did you?”

“Of course not, Li Fengwei and Nie Yifong rode with me.”

“It's a long ride. You should get some rest.”

Now this wasn't acceptable. Nie Huaisang may not have been a good fighter, but he was excellent at acting like everything was normal, and sometimes that was what his brother needed. “But Da-ge,” he whined, stepping closer to his brother. “Yours is the best tent in the camp. I could use a nap, but I'd rather sleep here.”

Nie Mingjue lifted his head this time, giving Nie Huaisang a look that seemed to say Really? You're doing this now?

Ignoring his brother's glare, he flopped down onto the cot next to him, tried to ignore the smelliness of it all, and lay his head on Nie Mingjue's shoulder. “Ew, Da-ge, when's the last time you took a bath?”

“I've been a little busy,” his brother snarked back at him.

“No wonder you're so grumpy. If my hair was this bad, I'd be grumpy too.”

“Huaisang. You're free to leave.”

“Not happening.” He could see the beginnings of resignation in his brother's eyes and gave a short sigh of relief. “But I think this is where I can help.”

He got up briefly to search out his brother's comb, and was thankful to see a bowl of water and a washcloth nearby (likely dropped off by other disciples concerned for their sect leader). He brought everything over to the cot and placed them behind Nie Mingjue, then knelt up behind his brother.

The fact that Nie Mingjue had no other protests to issue spoke volumes.

He started by untangling the mess of hair from around his brother's guan so that he could remove it. The moment the guan left Nie Mingjue's head, there was a slight shift in the room – Nie Mingjue's shoulders dropped and he pressed his face into his hands again. Now they were no longer sect leader and heir, but brothers.

Nie Huaisang drew back his brother's braids and slowly began undoing them, setting aside the decorations in a safe place. He took his time, slowly running the comb through his brother’s hair and using the washcloth to scrub away any remaining dirt and viscera from the battles. He occasionally spoke aloud to keep the room from going silent, muttering about the long ride to Qishan or expressing his concern that Nie Zonghui wouldn’t allow himself to rest until all the other disciples did.

By the time he was finished, his brother’s shoulders were shaking, and Nie Mingjue took in a sharp breath that wasn’t quite muffled by his hands.

“How many did you lose?” he asked gently, setting the comb aside.

“Too many,” Nie Mingjue whispered back.

Nie Huaisang was reminded of when he was nine years old, and his brother had taken over as sect leader. There had been a night hunt and something had gone wrong, and the party his brother led had returned two disciples short. Nie Mingjue had put on a brave front until his people were cared for, then had retreated to his room and collapsed on his bed. Nie Huaisang had been too young to do more than crawl into his Da-ge’s bed and curl up beside him, but eventually his brother had cried out his pain at having lost his first disciples, and Nie Huaisang had held him until it was over.

Over a decade later, and Nie Huaisang only felt slightly more capable of helping his brother.

“Do we have their sabers?” he asked gently, and his brother nodded. It had always been a Nie tradition that, even if the bodies could not be returned to Qinghe, that every disciple’s saber was brought back.

Nie Mingjue breathed again into his hands. “I failed them.”

“And how do you think you failed them? The men and women outside don’t look like disciples who were failed by their sect leader.”

“I should never have led them into Nightless City,” Nie Mingjue’s voice shook. “I should have known it wouldn’t go well, that-” He gasped, then pressed his lips tightly together.

Nie Huaisang didn’t know what his brother wasn’t saying, he only knew that he was glad his brother had made it out alive. “You’re not a god, Da-ge, no matter what the disciples think. There’s no way you could know everything. You did the best you could – you would do nothing less – and you made it out and back to us.”

Nie Mingjue shuddered. “I wish I hadn’t.”

His face growing wet at his brother’s admission, Nie Huaisang leaned forward to wrap his arms around his brother’s neck. “You don’t mean that,” he sniffed into his brother’s ear. “You’re upset, but you don’t mean that, because then you’d be leaving me all alone, and you said you would always protect me.”

His brother reached up to grab one of Nie Huaisang’s hands, and he thought he brother was going to shove him away – instead, his brother simply gripped his hand where it rested under his chin.

“I watched them die,” he hissed. “One by one, and I couldn’t do anything to stop it.”

“But you can remember their names,” he replied. “You can tell their stories, make sure they’re remembered for their bravery and their loyalty.”

Nie Mingjue didn’t reply, but he made a low keening sound as his head lowered further.

“They knew what it meant, going into battle,” he whispered to his brother. “Everyone in our sect, from the disciples to the kitchen staff, know that something might happen one day and we will be gone, us more than any other sect. Everyone knows, and they accept it, and they still will follow you into death and beyond – because they know you would do the same for them.”

Nie Huaisang held his brother in the silence of the field tent until he was no longer shaking in his arms. He pulled back to fetch the washcloth and offered it to his brother, and was thankful when Nie Mingjue began running it along his still dirty and tear-stained face. He then went to retrieve the food tray – the rations were nothing fancy but would fill them all the same. He somehow convinced his brother to eat with him, and they shared a meal for the first time since Nie Mingjue had left for this final surge on Wen territory. By the time they were finished eating, Nie Mingjue looked like he was barely keeping his eyes open.

“All right, Da-ge, time for my nap,” he announced, crawling onto the bed like he was ten years old again and curling up next to his brother, settling his head on Nie Mingjue’s large thigh. And much like when he was a child, his brother’s hand idly ran along his hair as if he were trying to comfort Nie Huaisang rather than the other way around.

Eventually, Nie Mingjue fell asleep where he sat on the bed, and Nie Huaisang guarded his brother’s sleep from anyone who might dare disturb it.

#nie bros #nie huaisang #nie mingjue #lots of feels #post nightless city

[brehaaorgana]

Something that happens SO OFTEN in Chinese fandom fanfic (I'm specifically talking about mdzs) that I'm starting to wonder if *I'm* wrong: not changing the number of a relational pronoun to suit the speaker.

Okay I mean this — assume three brothers:

#1

#2

#3

My assumption (I've taken Chinese classes but like...idk) was that Brother #1 would refer to his didi and er-di. Younger brother and second younger brother. And brother #3 would refer to his da-ge and er-ge.

BUT basically every fanfic is like brother #1 refers to his er-di and his san-di. But brother number 3 ISN'T his third younger brother. He only has two younger brothers!!!

I see this in all kinds of "wwx gets adopted somewhere else" fanfic but ALSO this is, I think, extremely common when it comes to people talking about Nie Mingjue, Lan Xichen, and Jin Guangyao.

It makes sense that *Nie Huaisang* would refer to his brother's "alliance brothers" as Er-ge and San-ge. Those are his da-ge's brothers, who are all older than him. It makes sense that Jin Guangyao would call Xichen er-ge, because he is counting! DA-ge. ER-ge. Himself.

But by CONTRAST, and I could be forgetting something — lan xichen would NEVER say er-di, because he doesn't HAVE a SECOND younger brother. He has his blood didi (Lan Wangji) and then Jin Guangyao, his sworn brother, and they're counted separately. JGY is a didi, to him, but an er-di only to Nie Mingjue. NMJ doesn't call him san-di.

IM PRETTY SURE IM RIGHT ABOUT THIS. It drives me insane to have like "oh my san-di..." and it's like. There's only three of you, you don't have a san-di??

Only an outsider older than all of you might call you san-di (in relation to all your brothers being younger than them. Didi, er-di, san-di) or san-gongzi, but your oldest brother wouldn't say that TO you? Because if they're talking TO you, the number is in relation to themselves. You're er-di, but SAN-gongzi.

Am I wrong or is fandom wrong please help. I'm genuinely so confused why people do this.

Right??? Or am I missing something. Please so many people in fandom do this "san-di" thing and I thought I was right but it's so prevalent I genuinely wonder if I misunderstood how this gets applied.

#mdzs #cql

[sect-leader-jiujiu]

so this is regarding the jc page on the mdzs wiki, because the way some people twist the source text is getting ridiculous.

fanfiction is one thing, free card to do whatever, but the wiki?? please don't mask your opinion as facts. it's fine if you hate jc and think that everything he did is wrong. seriously. i couldn't care less about menial thoughts floating around in your head. but PLEASE don't go out of your way to purposefully taint every jc-related event in the novel. don't base your fandom experience on hate. do you think he should have tried harder to support wwx in backing up the wens? fine! write a jc-bashing fic and vent out those feelings. but don't pretend that it would have been the responsible choice, in-context.

wwx was being selfless on his own behalf, putting himself at risk. if jc had publicly supported him, he would have been selfless on his people's behalf. he would have been risking not his own reputation, but the safety of the many people he was in charge of. think of your kids, siblings, pets, or whoever you are responsible for. would you purposefully endanger them just to get activist brownie points on the internet? just because a mutual you love tells you it's for a good cause?

remember that wwx was not responsible for anyone: he could make his own choices and deal with the consequences himself. jc, on the other hand, could only make choices on the sect's behalf, never forgetting that they would suffer the consequences. and sure, in the present timeline yunmeng jiang has influence and power, but they didn't have that after ssc. there was no influence he could use as leverage. he had no way of intimidating the other sects into not taking advantage, into not punishing them for supporting the wens. and don't even start with the "lxc and nmj wouldn't have done that!" because you know what they didn't do? help the jiang rebuild. so yeah, it was each man for their own. and jc had to act like it.

so, next time you type out

Jiang Cheng prioritizes the preservation and survival of his family and clan, and has been known to do so even at the expense of others. (source: the wiki :eye_roll:)

to twist it and make it sound like it was unreasonable of him and like he kicked wwx to the curb, please remember that not everything orbits around wwx, even if he is the protagonist. characters make choices based on their circumstances, not based on who is the narrator of the novel. jc had no moral obligation to do what wwx felt like doing at any given point. and you can think jc was wrong, but you can't say that he made that choice "at the expense of others". like what? why, pray tell, would he choose the wens over his own people??? why are the wens more deserving of protection, according to you?

and because i know that you have to clarify everything on the internet i'm going to say that no, i'm not saying wwx was wrong. neither of them was wrong. they were both protecting vulnerable people, and both cases are noble individually. they just made choices based on their responsibilities and their conscience at the time. like normal people do.

again, think and feel whatever you want, but don't spread these kinds of takes as if they are solid claims. you are wrong and i do not want to see it.

#mdzs #canon jiang cheng #ironically #it just baffles me that everything he does is seen as a mistake #mans was right in not backing up wwx's suicidal plan #AS THE STORYLINE PROVED #cw vent #i am probably going to regret getting into this but eh #curse you for making me want to participate in pointless discourse

[fincalinde]

nie huaisang and/or nie mingjue for the ask meme 🧋

Bold! Very bold. Standard disclaimer that I'm aware not everyone is aiming for canon consistency in their fan content, but I find it disheartening that there is so little content produced where the end result is canon consistent. When I express frustrations it is in relation to trends and not specific fics or individuals.

Nie Huaisang

a song that reminds me of them

I honestly don't have any songs that remind me of him, beyond the very weak connection of the results of the impact he has on other characters. He's not a character with much interiority, so nothing really clicked for me in that regard.

what they smell like

I imagine he smells pretty good since he likes to dress well and wear jewellery and that implies he's relatively fastidious. I am guessing he probably smells like clean human in the early part of his life, and then maybe once he's clan leader he has more scope to have whatever incenses he wants floating through the Unclean Realm so then he might smell of those. And obviously there's various hair oils—he's got his signature look with his rings and his fan so it's possible he has a signature hair oil. But maybe it would be declassé to wear so much hair oil that everyone else can smell it and you'd only be able to tell up close and personal oh my god why have I written this many words about how NHS smells

an otp

There's certainly no one in the cast he makes sense with. My personal feeling is that he's really not the type of person who's ever going to work effectively in any kind of partnership, so I don't see him ever being in a relationship that would be a healthy and successful one. I imagine he does marry postcanon though - now is the time to sire heirs and keep the Nie on top.

a notp

The idea of NHS with JGY is particularly distasteful to me.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Personally, I think the collective dynamic of the Venerated Triad isn't complete without NHS as the unofficial fourth member. LWJ, as is typical, opts out and doesn't give LXC the courtesy of referring to his sworn brothers with fraternal address (not that LXC minds, ilhsm). NHS however is all in on this bonus brother scheme. Not only does he address LXC and JGY as er-ge and san-ge, but he actually treats them like big brothers. He's pleased to see LXC, he's even more pleased to see JGY (omg presents), and it's quite nice that JGY in particular is trying to make up for NMJ's weaknesses in this area. That's not to say that JGY is correct to not make any demands of NHS at all, but he's certainly attempting to be a moderating influence and it's just all really interesting to me.

Of course once NMJ is dead, there's presumably not much time before his corpse first escapes its tomb and NHS concludes there was foul play. So we can't read too much into the way NHS runs back and forth to JGY and LXC, in the sense that obviously a large part of this is an act. But it's still interesting, and I think a lot of people forget that the narration says NHS is bothering LXC at the Cloud Recesses just as often as he's flinging himself on san-ge for fuss and support. This could become its own very long post, so I'll stop here.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

Obviously there are numerous 'headcanons' I disagree with, but to pick one of the most irritating ones, I really dislike this recurring theme I see of NHS showing his hand either postcanon or in divergences. This is a man who never broke character in all of canon—why on earth is he suddenly monologuing at length about his grievances in front of [insert characters here]? Canonically, all he does is obliquely confirm to WWX that he was behind setting the arm on the Mo family, manipulating MXY, killing the cats and luring the juniors, desecrating MS' body etc. But it's all implied and he does not ever relinquish plausible deniability.

It really makes no sense to me to think that NHS would drop his act postcanon, either in the canon scenario of dead JGY, or in a divergence scenario where JGY survives. As infuriating as it would be for him if JGY escaped, he's going to redouble his efforts rather than sabotage himself by confirming WWX's suspicions to literally anyone. He's held it together thus far even when it looked like his plan might go awry, and there's no reason to think he can't continue to hold it together through any further plans and/or confrontations.

NHS' greatest weapon is his ability to not break character, and we already know he doesn't break character in victory. So, a setback as basic as JGY surviving would just not be enough for him to relinquish his modus operandi. I really think he'd be privately furious and distressed, but would continue to disguise that and simply attempt to regroup. (Although, as I have also said before - in a divergence where JGY knows NHS is his enemy, NHS is toast. JGY outclasses NHS on every level and the only advantage NHS has is JGY's profound belief in his harmlessness. Once that is gone, it's game over.)

the position they sleep in

I've never really thought about this but I bet when he was little he would crawl into NMJ's bed and proceed to keep him awake all night by fidgeting.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

Maybe one day I'll confirm how he fits in to my ATLA AU and write that. I do know where he is and what he's doing.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

I can't say I've ever paid much attention, but I definitely find the wardrobe of CQL NHS to be disappointingly bland and unmemorable, so maybe just his default official artwork outfit? Seems like it fits the canonical brief of being sharp and fashionable with bonus fan.

—

Nie Mingjue

a song that reminds me of them

Definitely Running Deep by Delara.

Looking deep inside my thoughts And reflected shit I thought I could control But I'm paralysed and terrified And it's killing me but maybe that is fine

what they smell like

Human being + something a little bit metallic.

an otp

He's canonically ace as in no interest in relationships or sex, so none. As a side note I do think it's interesting that he doesn't marry and father children - I assume before the war he thinks he'll have more time, and afterwards he realises time is too short for him to raise and train his own children. But there's just a whisper in there of the classic NMJ 'do as I say not as I do' approach, because it's still a choice he's made that was influenced by his own preferences rather than solely his duty as clan leader.

a notp

I cannot think of any ship I dislike more than Nieyao. If I get into this it will become a dissertation, so we'll just leave it there. Suffice to say:

Physical abuse and mortal terror are not things that interest me when I'm shipping.

I am not in the habit of ignoring canonical character dynamics for my own convenience.

favorite platonic/familial relationships

Perhaps weirdly, I really enjoy NMJ and LXC because of the layers. I really like that the affection between them is genuine but that they just do not get each other and you can see throughout the flashbacks the way their relationship is eroding. And it's not drastic, dramatic erosion like NMJ and JGY, but instead the kind of sad recognisable drifting apart of two people who became friends in their youth because they're from similar backgrounds and have unique and heavy responsibilities—but those similarities are just not enough the older they get, and the more time passes the more apparent it becomes that they have fundamentally different outlooks on life.

I like that NMJ refuses to engage with LXC's basic point about context mattering, yet before he's fully in the grip of the sabre spirit maxing out his worst instincts, he's still capable of being moved by human sympathy when it's LXC making the argument. I like that LXC is the only person NMJ is ever visibly pleased to see. I really believe NMJ cares deeply about LXC, his only actual friend.

And, conversely, I also really like that NMJ is able to see that LXC has a closer bond and rapport with JGY and is frustrated by that. I don't know that I'd go all in on the theory that he's jealous of how close LXC and JGY are as a primary motivation as that's a bit too basic, but I do think that feeling of exclusion is one of the many factors swimming around in the murky depths of the dynamic of their sworn brotherhood.

Finally, I just love the contrast between LXC's relatively clear-eyed view of JGY, where he has a very good understanding of who JGY is and what he's all about even if he's not aware of all the lengths JGY ultimately has to go to, with his absolute obliviousness to who NMJ really is. NMJ is literally trying to stab JGY to death in public and only LXC's intervention prevents murder and yet another inter-clan war, and LXC is still like oh dear, Da-ge really is under a lot of stress. LXC is drifting further and further from NMJ (see the excellent meta from @xiyao-feels for a breakdown of this). Yet he still thinks of NMJ as being at heart the youthful clan leader he first befriended, rather than the current worst self incarnation whose negative qualities have been turned up to the max and who is a lethal ticking time bomb, a danger to everyone around him.

a headcanon that is popular in the fandom but that i disagree with

As always, do not get me started. I am absolutely baffled as to where cuddly wuddly giant teddy gym bunny biker Etsy crafter in touch with his fee-fees all bark and no bite NMJ comes from, because he certainly does not feature in canon. I'll stand by this for both MDZS and CQL. I've probably spilt enough ink on MDZS NMJ and we are given very detailed insight into his state of mind so that's a lot easier to reference, but it's worth noting that CQL NMJ is just as profoundly hypocritical and violent and it's vital to incorporate that into his character. Writing only his superficial righteousness, his love for NHS and his affection for LXC is really not enough. It annoys me when aspects of characters are excised in order to sanitise them for what appears to be mainly shipping purposes.

the position they sleep in

I think maybe it varies but he doesn't move much in the night unless he has nightmares. Which no one knows about because he always sleeps alone.

a crossover au i’d love to see them in

I also know what this guy is doing in my ATLA AU, and I'm super boring and not a huge fan of genuine crossovers—usually I prefer mashups where the characters of one canon are integrated into the setting of another without aping the original plot. I think it's really important to retain his arc of a) losing himself to all his worst qualities, and b) acknowledging that he's choosing to lose himself and handling it badly, but also it's not much of a choice when he can't opt out of the system he's in. I'm thinking maybe an X-Men AU where he has some kind of power that causes sabre-spirit-type degeneration and violence? It would need some kinks worked out of it but might be a decent shout.

my favorite outfit they’ve ever worn

Obviously his best look is when WWX is flicking his naked disembodied torso. Iconic.

#ask #thatswhatsushesaid #roquen meta #howling sadly into the night: #NMJ IS SO INTERESTING #whyyyyy would you construct something else out of whole cloth #when we have this to dig into? #beyond my comprehension

[whumpbby]

Thinking back to that omega JC with alpha NMJ idea, both outcomes are interesting but I find myself more captivated by the version where NMJ lives, the guy doesn't get to live very often after all. He deserves some good things to finally happen to him. The same goes for WQ (and maybe WN). Who I just realized would have a blast taking on the challenging mystery of the Nie's saber technique. Go play God girl.

Sometimes I forget how creative omegaverse allows one to be, not just with the dynamics but with packs too. Both NMJ and JC are dynamic leaders of their inner pack (family) and general pack (sect); both of which have recently taken major casualties. Their instincts are hypersensitive right now. Something they don't fully realize until the baby can be felt kicking not just JC's belly but their parental instincts into overdrive.

God I just want to see these two be parents! JC doesn't have JL anymore because JYL and her husband are thankfully alive and NMJ is finally able to experience parenthood thanks to also being alive. I wonder what type of uncle NHS would make?

Some last thoughts, at least JC has JYL to ask questions about parenthood, WWX will get to be a proper uncle this time, and A Yuan can keep his Wen family. Truly this is a happy timeline.

Sorry for the long time it took me to answer this ask, I needed to put my thoughts in order about this AU, becuase there are A LOT of thoughts about this AU!

I love omegaverse - it allows to pull in such a variety of subjects and themes, from straight-up porn to some really good character analysis and world building:)

In the 'NMJ lives' option, the plot goes a bit different than in canon - NMJ is a rash and righteous character, but I don't believe that he's politically dumb. He's set in his ways and inflexible, sure, but he can see the bigger picture (something that JC is not able to do at the moment due to stress, inexperience and having approx. 3h of sleep a week). He knows what sort of a viper JGS is and how the Jiang being weak benefits the Jin - and how he didn’t have a horse in this race until the option of an heir by JC came up.

Now, the Jiang being strong again will benefit the Nie - a pact with a trade-oriented region? Yes, please. After the war, they all need that. No wonder JGS is so keen on destabilising the region - with his son married to the Jiang Yanli the man probably thinks he has first pick of the trade deals.

However, if NMJ has a child via the current Jiang clan leader, then the Nie get the political priority and that's tempting. The Jin don't need any more power in their hands - and it's obvious that's what JGS is aiming for and JGY is helping him achieve in front of everyone's faces.

Well, then. Huaisang isn't the only one with a mischievous streak in this family. There are not many chances to indulge in it as a Sect Leader - but pissing of other sect leaders is a long-reaching tradition in the sphere of Great Sects.  NMJ wasn't leading the charge against the Wen just so the fat cats that barely lifted a finger could reap the benefits.

And thus begins Nie Mingjue's campaign to be the biggest pain the JGS's ass he can manage to be. He's still pissed off at JGY, so he channels that into less screaming and more interrupting him whenever some speech about Yiling Laozu starts winding up. At Huaisang's prodding, he brings his oldest advisors to the conferences, the old sly foxes that served his father and has them look out for the issues that may evade him. Yao sect leader is so brave when ranting against a young omega sect leader, but somehow has little to say when an imposing alpha growls at him to shut up from across the room.

And it's fun. Most fun MNJ had since the war has started. It relaxes him a little, allows him to focus on something else than the despair of losing so much to the Wen (and trusting the wrong people). It allows him to see the bigger picture a bit more clearly - and while the Nie never paid much attention to the rest of the cultivation world, the threads he can see now aren't running in a good direction. They are staring into the face of another war - all for a pathetic handful of war prisoners and a piece of metal Jin Guangshan apparently cannot live without!

So, yes, it makes perfect sense to get himself involved at this point and help out a fellow sect leader forged in the flames of war. It would be damn shame if the Jin got to fold Yunmeng into their coffers and take the one eligible gentry omega for themselves.

And, that is not to be understated, Jiang Wanyin isn't hard on  the eyes in any measure. And talking to him proved that he isn't much as the rumours painted him - not a rash, angry shrew. Not like his mother was described. He is raw and inexperienced, yes, and very defensive - but he's also reasonable and respectful, and willing to discuss his points until pressed into arguing them. He's honourable and honest. No wonder Meng Yao is able to talk circles around him.

Having a kid with an omega like that isn't a bad idea.

Hell, maybe he even allows JC to take him to the Burial Mounds to see in person how Wei Wxian's army fares... and yeah, that's what he expected tbh. Well, the pup running around is a surprise, but otherwise yeah, he's shivering in his boots. He's not going to admit he was wrong to want them dead - never - but he can admit that they're too pathetic to be a danger to anyone at this point. Seeing the fames Ghost General weeding turnips puts things into perspective a bit. (Maybe that's how he comes across Wen Qing and she makes her case about helping with the family curse?)

#headcanon #jiang cheng #nie mingjue

[veliseraptor]

Please tell me all the reasons xxc and nmj wouldn't get along, I'd love to hear that as a rant

I kept meaning to get back to this one and then forgetting and then going "oh I should answer that" and then going "but I don't want to be too bitchy" and then - and anyway that's why this took me like two months to answer.

basing this more on novel canon than cql, because that's where I tend to see the comparison being made more often, I think because they're more directly in contact in one specific scene.

so I think why people say this is basically because they see nie mingjue's "xue yang must be punished/killed" and xiao xingchen's "xue yang must be punished/killed" and also look at nie mingjue's relationship to jin guangyao and xiao xingchen's relationship to xue yang and go "oh so they're morally aligned and are parallel to each other :)" and that's just! not true!

for one thing, and I think this is something that gets lost a lot - xiao xingchen does not live within the hierarchy and structure of cultivation society at large, and is in fact not a huge fan of it. he and song lan are actively trying to do their own thing! that is part of xiao xingchen's problem specifically - he walks into great sect politics with the expectation of justice and runs headlong into, well, politics. and a big part of that is that he doesn't have a whole lot of respect for power if he sees that power as unjust or acting badly: despite pressure from the Jin, "neither coaxing nor coercion had budged Xiao Xingchen."

I think then people look at nie mingjue's showing up and arguing for the same and take those two things as equivalent, but they really aren't, because while nie mingjue is younger than jin guangshan and therefore owes him respect in that sense, he is also a sect leader and approaching from a far more equal position, which is why he can get away with actively threatening violence in a way that xiao xingchen...couldn't. nie mingjue has power, even if it ends up not working for him; xiao xingchen doesn't.

furthermore, I think another important distinction between the two of them is around the question of violence. specifically in the scene around xue yang's initial trial (ish), the distinction between xiao xingchen's bringing xue yang back to jinlintai to ask for him to be punished (by the sect whose responsibility he is), versus nie mingjue's attempt at direct personal execution, including an attack on jin guangyao when he doesn't get his way. again, some of this is likely based on power dynamics (nie mingjue, again, is closer to equal status and therefore has more allowance to step into jin guangshan's affairs), but I think some of it is a difference in approach, too, and inclination. I think it's also notable that (at least in translation) xiao xingchen doesn't specifically say that xue yang should die ("severely punished" is the phrase), as opposed to nie mingjue going for outright beheading.

so I think presenting them as similar/aligned in this scene, basically, is overselling it.

it's not that I think they would hate each other, or anything. I just don't think they'd be friends, or particularly see each other as allies. xiao xingchen occupies a space outside of the social order; nie mingjue, I would argue, is deeply wedded to the social order as it stands. xiao xingchen has a loose sense of the importance of traditional hierarchies of power; nie mingjue is very much embedded in those hierarchies of power and believes in upholding them.

furthermore, looking at the nie mingjue/jin guangyao dynamic versus the xiao xingchen/xue yang dynamic, I think the idea that they're narrative parallels really falls apart. nie mingjue is jin guangyao's superior officer and continues to perceive himself as an authority over jin guangyao; it is his job to correct his behavior and discipline him as he sees fit. xue yang is a criminal that xiao xingchen apprehends, and xue yang turns around and takes revenge on him for interfering. the latter are much closer to equals, at least in the way they perceive each other, and xue yang's revenge on xiao xingchen is considerably less motivated by self-preservation.

they're just not similar except in terms of very specifically both having the opinion "xue yang must be punished" and being willing to push against jin guangshan to do something about it, which isn't a lot to build on for a relationship of any kind, and I have a hard time seeing them vibe personalitywise.

boy this got long. you did ask for a rant though so I guess you got one? climbing down off my soapbox now and going back to my yi city cave where I belong.

#conversating #oddeyesight #sacrificing tags for the sake of not wanting to argue about it #alas. #should i tag stuff like this 'nie mingjue negative' maybe #i don't think i'm being unfair though #i don't think this counts as meta #i guess i'll tag this as #lise's aggressively bitchy opinions about irrelevant and unimportant matters #more mdzs than cql but for organization #the sad queer cultivators show #maybe i'll come back and tag it later

[kikimochiiiii]

My personal take on MDZS kins based on what I've seen (which is almost nothing)! Understand that this'll be very biased n uninformed, but it's just for fun and I cherish all kins! Please and thank you!💕

WWX: Fiercely protective over their homies/mother bear type; Live for the drama though, so they WILL pitch homies against each other; They will state that their opinion is ALWAYS right to assert dominance; They never feel silly enough; "What do you mean people don't have a bi panic every 20 seconds?"; The life of a party, for better or worse

LWJ: They are very accomplished and orderly; But ask them about that and they'll say that they hate how boring they are; They can recite all of their unrequited loves in detailed, dramatic stories; They have at least 1, if not multiple crushes where they hate the fact that they love them; once they hyperfixate on one thing, they'll never be able to tell you anything about anything else; Shy n sweet, we protecc

JC: "I HATE THAT I KIN THIS MAN, YOU DONT UNDERSTAND-"; Their family sucks so much and they absolutely deserve better; They always want affection but can't help but act grossed out by it; will fight WWX kinnies in a gas station parking lot; prayed to all the gods to be asexual because they hate hormones, but they couldn't be more thirsty; have killer fashion that makes everyone double-take; A fierce, chaotic beauty ppl don't forget

JYL: The mom friend; Is always the therapist/advisor/caretaker/friend/mom for everyone else; Girl, are you okay? You are overworked for real; Wishes they could be intimidating once in a while; LOVES ALL THE GIRLY FEMME AESTHETICS; "I'm so average TT TT" (is actually talented in so many areas wth); everyone is protective over them and they don't know why, but they like it💕💗

LXC: Oh my gosh, ARE YOU OKAY-; Have an emotional wall higher than Mt. Everest; The person with the most propriety; Perfectionism is their worst enemy; Have definitely dealt with toxic friends in their life, so please handle with care; the best listeners; Extremely artistic in some form or another; Are kind to all other kinnies, but will bloody take a bullet for JC kinnies on sight; No one shall ever know their music playlists...

NMJ: "I am who I am, and don't mess with me"; If people aren't genuine with them, they can't stand it; An open book at all times; Their face WILL show what they are feeling; They are just aiming to find a himbo or cute twink for their love partner (or both!); generally nice, but can whip out insanely painful insults, so don't test them; They are confident, and therefore, they are H O T

JGY: GOSH, WHY ARE THEY SO PRETTY??; Definitely were the reason for someone's bi or gay awakening; soft aesthetic e v e r y w h e r e; "A-Yao never did anything wrong!🥺"; Will 100% not snitch on you if you give them a favor or are just hot; Are all about optimizing their situation, if you catch my drift; They are the most loyal of loyal friends if they cherish you💗💕

NHS: "I was born to be petty."; They can recall everything they have a grudge against in worryingly great detail; They will exact revenge on you, so be nice; They have the absolute maddest make-up skills; Work in tandem with WWX kinnies to make chaos, but take a backseat more often; Either habe the highest standards or none at all with no in-between; Bring them to ALL of your sleepovers

WQ: Queen energy 24/7; "I fUCKING TOLD YOU SO-"; They are forever suffering from the incompetent, irresponsible people around them; They have dealt with creeps thirsting after them, and they all wound up missing, oops-; Will be a full-on bodyguard for JYL kinnies and MM kinnies on sight; They just hate men in general; Extremely smart and/or street smart

MM: Also constantly suffering from idiots around them; They are so pretty, but very modern n with the trend when it comes to fashion; They are so stable and sure in themselves, we love to see it; Definitely witnessed friends go through VERY cringe romantic relationships; Doesn't talk much in a group context, but if you start talking with them, they are an awesome friend💕💗; When protected by WQ kinnies, they'll insist that they didn't need up, but they'll secretly like it👀

WN: Classic shy and sweet TM; People were absolutely attracted to them before because they thought they fit a trope, and it was deeply upsetting to them; They are SO INDECISIVE; Their fear over making core decisions is immeasurable; They have an intense fear of emails; "Please don't perceive me..."; Can pop off when defending a friend, and it's very hot of them

XY: "Okay, but like, I'm just saying...a pocket knife would be good for self-defense because-"; They joke about concerning things in discord vcs at 3 am that everyone mutually chooses to ignore; Are adorably extroverted; "Omg you like candy too?! LETS BE BESTIES!!💕🎵"; Are oddly sweet considering they relate to Xue Yang; Definitely tried the goth look once, but they still looked like a cupcake; The hugging type of friend; Occasionally bratty for attention

SL: "Why do all these people lack common sense?"; Had 1 (one)(uno) crush and then never liked anyone ever again; Everyone calls their lifestyle dull, but they just say that they value consistency; You have to plan a meet-up with them 2 weeks in advance or else they will PANIK; Their form of love is helping you manage your finances; Are actually quite mature and wise once you get them talking

XXC: YOU ARE SO PURE, WHY ARE YOU ON THE INTERNET; Weirdly aged and ageless in personality; Also the mom friend, but they aren't burnt out, unlike JYL kinnies; Wear super cute, oversized sweaters, I don't make the rules; sweater paws HNNG; Sometimes a bit out of the loop, but they're doing their best; Jump around in a conversation; Found family is their absolute jam; An extreme empath, so they have to protect themselves from too much depressing stuff, like the news

Okay, that's it for now! I just picked out some of the MDZS people that stood out the most to me for now bc man, this is long, but lemme know if you want my take on any other MDZS character!

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs #wei wuxian #lan wangji #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #lan xichen #nie mingjue #jin guangyao #wen qing #wen ning #mian mian #xue yang #song lan #xiao xingchen #nie huaisang

[songofclarity]

Me as Xiao XingChen's birthday comes to a close: Apparently I’ve always wanted to become a Xiao XingChen fan blog 😂 I do love him very much

#misc musings #although this is still primarily a nmj love blog lmao #i need to write that nmj and xxc meta #since everyone seems to forget the part of the story where they were bros #and it's so bizarre for people to overlook nmj and xxc working together #because it brings together the mystery of nmj's fierce corpse #and the tragedy of yi city #these things are connected! #directly connected! #i'm salty that cql cut out them meeting #and gave nmj's role to wwx instead #actually cql gave nmj's role to wwx and jc and lwj and nhs lol #and then cut out just how fiercely xxc felt about xy being punished #by having xxc just hand xy off to a bunch of kids #cql (derogatory) #the only person from the cultivation sects to support xxc #was nmj and please don't forget it! #nmj and xxc had nothing to gain and so much to lose #and they still picked being good people trying to do the right thing!

[nyarados]

okay I just saw a post basically comparing the sect leaders in the untamed with the donghua to complain abt them looking "ugly" or something irl and guys....... are we really gonna do this

#mdzs #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #chen qing ling #I'm kinda pissed abt it so ya I'm tagging it all #but anyway the details: #they showed nmj jgs jfm the wen leader whose name I forget and lqr #they just.....they all just look like old chinese men #nmj looked older than I expected but he just looked like the strict uncle #jgs (I actually don't really remember but I'm mostly sure his name was jin guangshan) looked like a wealthy man #jfm looked like the kindly father figure #wen whomever looked like a villain!!!!! or at least a bad guy #lqr same as nmj looked like a strict uncle #like guys PLEASE please please pleeeease don't do this #they. literally. just. look. like. older. chinese. men. #journal #ps the post was on insta

[plan-d-to-i]

Just another post to justify JC ignoring life debts toward the Wen Siblings. Funny enough, this person thought WQ would achieve anything by voice her disagreement with WRH becoming the overlord. Or they thought WQ would totally be fine to go against WRH publicly (then again by helping WWX and JC, she and WN did go against WRH in secret and NMJ didn't know that because the ungrateful grape didn't bother to explain how he and WWX owned them).

And hey, so follow this person's logic, because WQ kicked JC and WWX out, so JC didn't own WQ that much (even though she let them stay for three days, took care of their wounds and didn't rat JC and WWX out to WC). Cool, but what about WN? He is the reason JC still alive and be able to retrieve his parents' bodies to do his filial duty. If that life debt is still small for this person to deem not worth for gratitude, then next time if anyone ever offer these types of helps to this person and JC, they shouldn't accept them.

I'm sorry this person and even NMJ are so stupid and insensitive to unable to imagine how dangerous it is for people who live under a tyrant regime to even do a tiny act of protests. Like they expected people to forfeit their lives and families to go against the regime that would wipe them out easily.

I'm almost impressed by how effectively they miss the actual message of the story Re: indiscriminate mass revenge against people is not simpatico...🥲. Bc by their logic killing Granny Wen and A Yuan is fine eh- bc Wens. NMJ is a hothead and he generally has the most extreme opinions.

I think ppl often forget too that Lan Xichen speaking up means something. It means something because The Cloud Recesses were burned down by the Wens. His father died because of them. He and his brother almost died as well, and they were never the recipients of their aid as jiang cheng was.

But above all WWX's words are the most meaningful.

"Wei WuXian, “Did I say something wrong? Forcing living people to be bait and beating them up whenever they refused to obey—is this any different from what the QishanWen Sect does?”

Another guest cultivator stood up, “Of course it’s different. The Wen-dogs did all kinds of evil. To arrive at such an end is only karma for them. We only avenged a tooth for a tooth, letting them taste the fruit that they themselves had sown. What’s wrong with this?”

Wei WuXian, “Take revenge on the ones who bite you. Wen Ning doesn't have blood on his hands. Don’t tell me that you find them guilty by association?”

and

Wei WuXian grinned, “Oh. The Wen-dogs did all kinds of evil, so anyone whose surname is Wen can be killed? That’s not it, is it? Many of the clans who defected from the Wen Sect are quite well-off right now, aren’t they? In this hall, isn’t there a few sect leaders from clans that used to be under the Wen Sect’s wing?”

As the sect leaders saw that he recognized them, their expressions changed at once. Wei WuXian continued, “Since anyone whose surname is Wen can be used an outlet of anger as one pleases, no matter if they’re innocent or not, does it mean that it’s fine even if I kill all of them right now?”

How do people not understand that MXTX had the mc say all of this to point out ppl's hypocrisy. To point out how their kind of thinking is wrong?

Back to that post: "Like what could Wen Qing and Wen Ning possibly have don't to cancel out the Wen Sect's huge responsibility for the massacre of the Jiang Sect" ... 🌝... yes, see this would be the moment for jiang cheng to open his mouth and explain how they were not involved in what happened at LP other than to save his sorry ass.

Love how they cut off the most relevant quotes about WQ too :

I’m the office leader of Yiling, but I was ordered to take the position. I’m a medic, an apothecary, I’ve never killed anyone, much less touched the blood of the Jiang Sect.”

It was true. Nobody had heard of any lives lost by Wen Qing’s hands. There were always many cases that people wanted her to take over. It was because Wen Qing was one of the Wen Sect’s people whose way of doing things was actually normal. At times she could even put in a few good words for people in front of Wen RuoHan. Her reputation had always been good.

and

Although the pack of herbs smacked right onto Wen Ning, he spoke happily, “The medicine that my sister prepared will definitely turn out good. Hundreds of times better than mine. It’ll be good for sure.”

Wei WuXian finally felt relief, “Thank you.”

He understood the fact that one of these siblings deciding to turn a blind eye to them and the other deciding to outright help them meant that they were placing themselves in extreme danger. Just as Wen Qing said, if Wen Chao truly wanted to kill anyone, it was unlikely for Wen Qing to be able to stop him. Perhaps she’d be affected as well. After all, children of others could never compare to children of one’s own.

and instead went w : "She herself is aware of her choice when she tries to kick Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian out so as to not get Wen Ning and their house in trouble." Hm... yes she's aware, exactly, AND SHE DOESN'T KICK JIANG CHENG AND WEI WUXIAN OUT. THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT. ( Φ ω Φ )

#this is why I hate how people misuses those types of quotes about neutrality in this fandom #because there's a difference between what free people can do #and what people can do under an oppressive tyrant #and casting everyone in the same pot with zero consideration ain't it

[vermillioncrown]

Have you listened to the CQL character songs?

yes i have. and obviously that's not a satisfying answer on its own so here we go, half-baked and incoherent thoughts on the songs (style, instrumentals, vocals, lyrics when i deem relevant) please remember that i have no legitimate nor professional leg to stand on

preface on my 'meh' with character songs: when i listen to a character song, it hits the bad spot of 'too-on-the-nose' lyrics that squick me. i don't want other people to know i'm listening to this nerdy fan shit. i don't want a recitation of the plot. but this is easier to when i can't fully understand the lyrics (so very fast mando or jpn) if i even catch a hint of a lyric i understand and i don't like it, my face scrunches up like eating a whole lemon

so...

wwx: 'song ends with chenqing' - oh man, that is peak cpop cheesy ballad, w the sound effects, production, the melodic development. i like the operatic bridge. but it's not the one i think of as an untamed character song. but i guess like wwx it's a bit unexpected. while i like the song, there are songs i like more and go to first, and i end up forgetting this one. xiao zhan has a nice voice, but it's too perfect. compared to the character he plays, it's quite tame.

lwj: 'never forget' - oh this is a fucking character song. gusu. emperor's smile. all the wangxian checkmarks lol. and the way the chorus goes up - made for wailing during karaoke (aka the best metric for judging cpop/cballads) i can't listen to it too much bc the instrumentals really demand your attention, with the guqin in the beginning, and the big crescendo as the bridge. also i'm not used to wang yibo's voice being so soft. (btw check out his song 无感/no sense; i think it was a clapback to some of the rather harsh criticism he got for his role in cql. also he sang a song for this outdated mmo that's v cute)

wn: (i might be wrong) 'red child' - idk if the phrase has another meaning, but that's what i recognize the characters as (someone translated it as 'pure child'??? wtf). i like yu bin's vocals. i can't watch the lyrics video bc it's def a character song. the backing strings are so traditional chinese score-type music. cute pipa (i think). again, i like it but it's usually not the song i'm looking for.

jc: 'hating separation/hate-filled parting' - HOLY FUCK I LOVE THIS ONE. wang zhuocheng's voice is the right pitch and timbre, the instrumentals are enough to set the stage and let the melody of the vocals lead the way, and despite it being very distinctly a character song, the lyrics and melody almost feel like a folk song. like an oral tale, like a lullaby or someone singing it out on a river. idk how to describe it, when the notes feel like they're flitting up and down, birds coasting along the wind (that's what i liked about audio drama wangxian's verses and then their chorus cocked it up)

i love the melody of the chorus - karaoke material. and then once again with that final chorus key change, oh you're wailing it!

okay moving on

lxc: 'beyond control' - i love the piano start. so many sad cpop songs like this fuck, and then the drums and the winds WOW aurally satisfying! and liu haikuan's voice is this nice angsty, raspy quality that just slays me. the lyrics are quite poetic, to the point it's hard for me to pick up without the words in front of me and that's great! the melody doesn't do it for me as hard as others, but overall, the best thing i can say is that i would be willing to play this over aux while chauffeuring my parents w/o fear of judgement.

nmj&nhs: 'separation at qinghe' - the lyrics are too character song for me. but i love the instrumentals (i would put it in my two steps from hell-eqsue playlist for extreme coding time), and the vocals. this is a song to be belted out under the moonlight after 3 cups of soju. but it's too intense for regular listening.

wq: ' whisper of the woods' - it's not wq's actress singing this one. it hits all the prerequisites to be in my middle school cpop playlist: not too intense instrumentals, a clear and sweet voice, a typical .. uh, melodic resolution for these types of songs? i think there are a few lines i don't like the cadence of during the chorus, but eh. i'll live.

xy: 'liberation at the deserted city' - also not sung by the actor. this is a movie soundtrack song, the vocals go off but the instrumentals give it space. like, in a theoretical yi city movie the song would play w/o vocals and during the credits, the w/ vocals version would play. i like her 'lalalalalalaaaaaaaaa' but it's not enough to get me listening to it all the time. also... xue yang's song is like this????

yi (-eet) city: 'lonely city' - (by a-qing's actress chen zhuoxuan, and sun bolun) FUCK THIS SONG MAKES ME CRY. it's too nerdy to play out loud and that sucks. because I LOVE THE INSTRUMENTALS BECAUSE IT'S SO FUCKING LONELY SOUNDING AND THE VOCALS AND EVEN THE CHEESY AND DIRECT LYRICS FUCKING GET TO ME BC OF THE CADENCE OF DELIVERY. tell me about shuanghua and the candy that xy wants to eat, you sing about that sad shit!

hhhhhh....

AND HOLY SHIT SECOND VERSE, THAT INSTRUMENTAL COMING IN W THE DRUMS; WHEN CHEN ZHUOXUAN TRADES OFF W SUN BOLUN oooooohhhhhhhhhh every time my breath catches in my chest just from the transition into a more complex version of the same drum rhythm, and how his voice does this thing that feels like he's exhaling a sob, and the harmony with chen zhuoxuan's voice throughout, holy fuck, i'm not a musicologist but something about this song and how it came together fucking hit the resonance frequency for my shitty brain and oh fuck. oh god.

they got it. the characters. the mood. yi city. i put this shit on repeat. i purposefully went on long drives and blasted this song on my fancy sound system.

(there are some songs that trigger an instant tear response, just by the combination of notes and sound textures they hit. this is one of them)

junior squad: 'youths that should not be underestimated' - look, by now my opinions are not new. none of the character songs are offensive by any means. sick guitar wails - i like that. but i cannot deal with the vocals bc without visuals, i imagine a middle-aged man singing on the chinese equivalent of american idol (not saying middle-aged men cannot sing bc they fucking hit it), but the cognitive dissonance is there and kills me. the vocal... uh idk the way to describe it, but it would suit an instrumental backing w more traditional elements or a slower song. or an adult character.

jyl/jzx: 'eternal farewell' - not by the actors. i don't pay too much attention to the lyrics for this one bc my mando sucks. female voice by itself is a bit jarring bc it's a bit saccharine. but that duet for chorus is giving me mad karaoke vibes. definitely a fun one to sing, but i don't seek it out to listen to.

jgy: 'the birth of hatred' - HAHAHAHAHA IT'S THE DUBSTEP ONE. i laugh but i had this on repeat in... uh, apr-aug 2020 to get me through early quarantine. good for mindlessly working. the singer is an idol singer (not the actor), which makes perfect sense with how the song turned out. i really love the melody of the chorus, and zhu xingjie's voice really goes into it esp near the end. the rap/hip-hop verses is cheesy but i'm down for a decent verse - he's got aight cadence but there's not much leeway when it comes to character songs. you run into the issue like vocaloids where people cram too many words in one line.

the chorus makes me want to sing it, gives me good nostalgia for 2000s chinese cpop songs. my mind is stuck on richie jen's 诛仙我回来/zhuxian wo hui lai/??? I'm coming back vibes. i want to play it out loud, but it needs to be by myself. people who don't understand chinese go ???? at the dubstep fusion, and people who understand chinese that aren't cql watchers/fans will be (ʘ ͟ʖ ʘ)(ʘ ͟ʖ ʘ)( ͡ಠ ʖ̯ ͡ಠ)

like i don't want to be stuck for more than 20 mins and this song plays while my dad is there to lecture me. i'd just put the car in park at the intersection and walk out.

and that's a wrap!

#opinionated verm #Anonymous #inquiry #i do the 'repeat a song until i go deaf' thing and why i like a song isn't... it just has to hit right #so don't feel offended if i didn't like your favorite song as much as you did #you asked and i told #cql #verm is listening...

[robininthelabyrinth]

I'll start with saying that i love your blog and that you're a productivity monster.

I wanted to ask about a fic of yours, the one where wen yuan was wen xu s son , nmj helped him escape from nightless city with wen ning and then wen ning was killed by jgy after nmj asked him to search for him.

There Is a second part? I remember something but I'm not sure, I'm probably mistaken there are so many fic here xd Just asking to be sure!!

Thank you so much for sharing with us! Don't forget to take care of yourself!!

That’s War Remnants (ao3 here)! And no, there’s no second part yet, BUT I have some prompts for more of that sitting in my inbox. If anyone has anything else they’d want to see happen, please let me know now so that I can incorporate it into the next chapter if it ends up happening. (Replies strongly preferred over asks if possible)

#Anonymous

[theuntamednarrator]

Hi. I've always been curious. I didn't read the mdzs novel, just the drama adaptation, so i do not know how the ah-cheng/xichen pairing came to be. I asked someone this before but idk if they answered, and about a year to this fandom, i still don't understand how it started. I love the ship tho. 10/10 on-board of it. But the live action mostly just showed JGY and Xichen's interaction. Or maybe I just missed the hints? I just want to know the history. Thank you in advance if you'll answer.❤️

Anon I will always happily answer any questions about this show! However I must confess that I, like yourself, am a CQL only fan.

That said, honestly if there is one thing I've learnt about fandom in my decade and a half playing about in it it is that people can (and will, and do) try out any and all pairings to see what works, with very limited exceptions (you dont, for example, really see fics breaking up WangXian because, well, canon gave us something pretty much perfect why would we mess with that?). That's one of my favourite things about being in fandom. I do think sometimes all it takes for a ship to become The Fanon Ship™️ for particular side characters is for that one author/artist to write/draw something that grabs the rest of us so hard and wrings such a delighted collective squee! out of us we collectively kind of agree to forget it's not canon?

Now, why XiCheng in particular? Well, from what I know of novel/donghua timelines JC stayed behind at Cloud Recesses after WWX got booted for punching JZX. From what I gather a lot of fics that start the relationship early put it here; one young Sect Leader taking a future Sect Leader under his wing, which turns into something more.

The time skip period generally features a lot of LXC helping JC through the rebuilding post the deaths of JYL and WWX as one of the closest Sect Leaders geographically but also someone JC knows and trusts. The flip side is JC helping LXC deal with LWJ's punishment and isolation.

Post-canon fics tend to play on their parallels and shared grief, the 'I know what it's like to lose a beloved sibling (NMJ/JYL) because of the actions of another beloved sibling (JGY/WWX) and to be responsible for their (JGY/WWX) death. Basically, XiCheng is an interesting dynamic to play with for lots of reasons. Narrative wise both have pretty bad parental examples of love, become sect leaders too young, have their secta burnt down and their beloved brothers go missing. Personality wise there's a bit of opposites attract; JC would do well with someone who was gentle and unrelentingly kind and LXC could do with someone who will get angry on his behalf. Who doesn't love it when the grumpy character is soft for the sunshine character, and the sunshine character only? Heck maybe people just think those are two jawlines that deserve each other?

But I have also seen XiCheng described as a bit of an exercise in "pair the spares" which, uh, I honestly don't get at all because, uh, everyone apart from WangXian is kind of a spare? Discounting XuanLi and the CQL-only almost (but never really) ChengQing there's no canonical romantic relationships to be seen amongst the main protaganists' generation we're not calling JGY/QS a romatic relationship because on this blog we're living in our MianMian and QS ran away together and live as cultivation partners far far away from Jin Lin Tai happy bubble which, again, give the fandom a sandbox ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Personally, I see just as much NieLan and SangCheng as I do XiCheng, and you're right that XiYao has some strong in-text support and is pretty popular (perhaps more so with CQL fans? Lingering public hand touches anybody?). Heck I've even read and thoroughly enjoyed some really good fics with MingXiCheng and ChengYu. I've seen (aged up) XiYu. NingCheng, SangYu, and SangYao aren't super rare, 3zun is everywhere. I've even seen cute ChengYao hcs about them being the most awkward co-parents to ever co-parent one bratty jin heir.

Leaving ALL of that (which is admittedly a lot) aside my own top peronal hc for JC is that he's somewhere on the aro/ace spectrum with a sex-postive leaning because I am invested way too heavily in dad!cheng with two dozen adopted and biological children and only he knows which are which leave me alone.

I just realised I didn't really properly address the point you made about XiYao having more textual support in CQL. Oops, sorry! I guess I would tend to agree. As to why there isn't then more XiYao than XiCheng? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Might be that the XiYao crowd is torn between NieYao, NieLan, 3zun, and XiYao? Might be that people don't want to ship JGY with LXC because they think he doesn't "deserve" to get what he wants? Might just be that the novel/donghua didn't give XiYao that much chemistry and the CQL fandom haven't had time to tip the scales? Short answer, I just don't know.

Did that in any way answer your question anon? I have no idea! Probably not? I apparently have more feelings about the fleets sailing these waters than I thought I did. But hopefully it helped somewhat? If anyone else has anything more concrete please chime in!

#long post #anon #anonymous #dear god answering questions on mobile #i forgot how awful it is #whose turn was it to spit on the prayers and tape today? #i think they fucked up #other people's questions