#we could have had stelena endgame | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

andreal831 · 2 months

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Hello, just a fellow The Originals fan here. Do you think Jackson could have been a better character if the writers decided to make him part of Hayley's biological family, instead of a love interest?

I think as a brother, or even as a cousin, he would have worked better. He being so protective of her as a wolf in season 1 would make more sense, he would want to protect his long lost sister and unborn niece, instead of following her just because she's his fiancée.

Jackson would care more for Hope as he did her stepfather, maybe seeing her as a second chance, after not being able to protect Hayley in the past. Having lost his entire family as a child, he would relate to Hayley losing her child in some kind of way and definitly would not abandon her. After Hope's return, I could see him working with Elijah to make the wolves of the bayou their personal army (to avoid the wedding plot, maybe Davina o Freya could find a loophole and resolve the situation as such).

So... Sorry for possible grammar mistakes, this is not my first language, and... well, I'm waiting for your response

Hi love! Thanks for asking!

I absolutely wish we could have seen Hayley have actual family. She searched her whole life for her family and even sacrificed 12 of her friends for their location. Only to find them and essentially be rejected by them, except for when she has something to offer. I love found families, which is why I love her connection to the Mikaelsons, but I would have loved for her to build that connection with her pack. She began to have it with Eve, but after Eve was killed, we don't really see her build that bond with anyone else.

This is where the show failed to develop a love triangle. I don't like love triangles, but especially this one. Even when I don't like both ships, I can usually see why people are torn. But in order to make the audience torn, you have to make the character torn as well. We don't really see that from Hayley. She isn't torn between two men, rather torn between a man she loves and the simple life she wants. She likes the idea of marrying Jackson because he represents the life she could have had if her parents hadn't been murdered. And this is only after she is forced to even consider it in order to save her daughter. They didn't have to completely remove him as a love interest to make them have a better relationship. They simply needed to invest in the character/ relationship.

We can compare this to the other love triangle in this fandom. I liked early Stelena and can't stand Delena, but I can see why people ship them. People were shipping Delena since season 1, even when it seemed that Stelena was endgame. This is a successful love triangle. But people shipped them because we saw moments between Delena where he was vulnerable and she felt like she was the only one who could fix him. We could see them begin to develop feelings, even just familial ones. We don't get scenes like that with Jayley.

Every moment of vulnerability we see from Hayley is with Elijah or even Klaus. For Jayley to be a competitive ship, I needed to see moments where Hayley was opening up or Jackson was being vulnerable. I needed to see some connection between them other than just being from the same pack or being betrothed. I also needed to see Jackson understand that Hayley wasn't Andrea. He was so busy trying to "save" her from the Mikaelsons that he never realized how similar to them she was. They could have had her tell him about how she helped get 12 wolves killed and have him have to process/understand that, understand who she became because his grandfather killed her parents. They had a complex history and really could have been a complex ship. But we never get to see them share anything personal and develop that complexity.

Which brings me to your point. If Jackson had been related, it would have really changed the dynamic. Hayley would still feel torn between her family and the Mikaelsons but it wouldn't have been so difficult. We don't really see Hayley taking Jackson's romantic interest in her into consideration in season 1 at all. She really only mentions it to push Elijah to act. Other than that, we don't see any romantic connection. They basically were just family. But the real shift would be the hierarchy of the pack.

One thing I've mentioned that I hate about the Crescent pack is the confusing hierarchy. Part of this is due to the fact that the pack actually split in two and developed two different "royal" families. My other issue is the monarchy aspect. Packs are meant to be led by the strongest members, members who are chosen or earn it, it doesn't matter what family they come from. This is something they seemed to ignore in TO because they wanted to position Hayley and Klaus and King and Queen. I hated this. Hayley was always referred to as a queen, even having the pack kneel for her (ew), while Jackson is referred to as the alpha, not the king.

If they were related, theoretically, one of them would have a better claim to the pack rather than being from rival families. To me, Hayley or Aiden should have been alpha. We don't see Jackson ever step up for the pack the way we see Aiden and Hayley. In a normal pack, if the alpha runs off and someone else steps up, they would challenge that position. But here, Jackson just comes back and resumes his position. I would have liked to see a challenge. This is why monarchies are bad. They are allowed to rule no matter what they do, they don't have to improve or even try.

You're definitely right about the protective as a wolf thing though. I was always confused by what level of understanding the pack had as wolves. We are told in TVD that the wolves don't remember when they turn and don't have control. This is what makes hybrids different. But the Crescent Wolves seemed to remember their time as wolves and even control it. Maybe this is due to the curse or just one of many plot holes, who knows. But we already know that the wolves naturally are drawn to family. Ansel was drawn to Klaus as a child and then to Hope in his wolf form. That would have made sense for Jackson to be drawn to Hayley as his family and his wolf being protective. I don't think it would make sense to say his wolf was protective simply because of an arranged marriage.

It also would have shifted Jackson's motivations. To me, it felt like every interaction between Jackson and Hayley was motivated by Jackson's desire to fulfil his childhood dream of marrying his lost Andrea. It broke my heart for Hayley that the first chance she gets to meet her family, Jackson tells her he is disappointed by it and the rest of her family just ignores her. I would have loved Jackson to hold off on the obligations and just get to know Hayley. Maybe ask how she's feeling about being pregnant or offer her some stories about her (their) family. If he was biologically related to her, this would have been more of her focus. And to your point, he would have been more interested in the baby since it was his family. It would have been more impactful to see them bond over losing their family, of being forced out of their homes. They really did have a lot they could have bonded over but the show just didn't let them.

It would have made him take Hayley more seriously as a political leader of the pack, rather than just a potential wife. The pack was terrible at politics and part of this could have been because they lived most of their lives as wolves. They should have welcomed Hayley's experience and intelligence and even her connection to the Mikaelsons. Ironically, the pack had the arranged marriage because they understood it could help create peace between the warring packs. You would think they would understand Hayley's connection to the Mikaelsons could do the same thing. Hayley even bonds with Davina and could have gotten the witches on their side. They could have worked with the Mikaelsons and even the witches to come up with a better solution.

Another issue I have is that the unification ceremony gives the pack the power of the alphas, but why wouldn't Hayley just taking over the pack and them swearing their allegiance to her give them her power? The magic just felt so forced. There seemed to be a lot of better options.

Essentially, he didn't need another story line to be a better character. He needed better writing or more time.

Sorry this was so long but I hope I answered it all!

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jbuffyangel · 1 year

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Hello! I finished TVD. I knew about Damon endgame beforehand, but from the moment I started the show and saw Stefan and Elena and their chemistry and connection, I was like: "Wow, I know Delena is endgame, so they must have done something amazing with Delena to top that couple right here." The problem is they didn't and threw Stelena away for nothing. I read your old reviews and they are amazing. Do you still think about them the way you did? Are you still watching occasionally?

Hi Nonnie! Welcome to the pain that is Stelena. I absolutely still think of them and they are one of the true great injustices in my television viewing experience. Especially after I read Julie Plec and Kevin Williamson's interviews when the show ended. I think they would have put Elena and Stefan back together in the end. When I listen to their perspectives on the show I think Stelena was endgame. I know Kevin absolutely wanted that. So it gives me some peace knowing that I wasn't totally off my rocker.

The show was actually moving in that direction in Season 6. Elena forgot all her memories of Damon & that would've played out much longer. She would fall for Stefan again (not unlike the sire bond storyline for Damon). They were all about balance on the love triangle. A supernatural element broke Stefan & Elena up and put Elena & Damon together, so they would've done the same thing to Delena. And then we move towards Elena becoming human, getting her memories back and having to make another choice.

Julie likes to say that they couldn't reunite Stelena or do the final choice because Nina left the show, but honestly it was totally doable in Season 6. They broke Stelena up in like 6 episodes in Season 4. I had whiplash. It would've been easy to sell Elena was in love with Stefan again due to the memory loss. They like to blame it on Nina leaving but honestly I think they just took the easy way out. Delena was more popular. They didn't have to make an endgame decision and if Stelena fans were unhappy then they could just blame it on Nina... which is exactly what they did.

And then they killed my Stefan.

I do occasionally rewatch Season 1 - Season 3. I rewatch 4x01 on repeat and pretend it's endgame. Or I like to pretend Stefan and Elena visions of a happy human life was how it really played out. Stelena had a proposal (which Steroline basically coped which i found SUPER WEIRD) We saw their happy life together. I think Delena fans were really hosed on that end.

I tried to have a podcast of TVD with my friend @lipstickandwifi but it just ended up with me yelling in every episode because I'm so ticked off at the writers.

#stelena #stefan and elena #stefan salvatore #elena gilbert #anti delena #asks

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scienter · 2 months

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Anon from last ask about tvd series finale.

TVD writers should have declared that Stefan had transformed into superman when Bonnie injected the cure because no way in hell a normal human could survive a stab wound,a gun shot and being beaten & kicked by a 4000 year old psychic within a span of 72 hours only to end up with a scratch on his forehead! And how the hell did he still have the cure in his body after bleeding out so much every single day! Silas sucked Katherine out of her blood to take the cure.Amara did the same to Silas.But it took only a small syringe of blood for Stefan to turn human! Nonsense!

Stefan came to Mystic Falls as a suicidal guy,spent his entire narrative with passive suicidal ideation,went on a suicide mission not less than 48 hours before he got married and then actively chose to end his life widowing his wife and gleefully screamed I WAS FEELING EPIC while Lexi CHEERED? LEXI of all people celebrating Stefan's suicide?

.This was HIS STORY?This was the end of Stefan Salvatore?

I DON'T BUY IT. This is NOT Tragedy.This is NOT dark.

This is CHEAP.PRETENTIOUS.And this is probably how the finale discussion went down👇🏼

KW: I want Stelena endgame.

JP:I know but that won't make any narrative sense.

KW: But Stelena is epic.

JP: yeah but Elena declared her undying love for Damon.

KW: Paul wants Stefan dead.

JP: We can work on that.But what about Caroline?

KW: Caroline who?

*awkward silence*

KW: Umm I don't know put her with someone Ric,Matt,Tyler...Klaus!

JP:Klaus! Of course! But Stefan and Caroline are married...

KW: Stefan and Elena are soulmates.

JP:But in s6 finale,Stefan said Elena didn't come into his life to be his soulmate.

KW: What S6?

JP:Well! If I kill Stefan, then Klaroline switch-bait will be easier! And Bonnie will get her powers back to save Elena's life.

KW: So,Stelena is endgame?

JP: Don't worry.I have everything under control.Oh and We will blame Nina in interviews.

*violent sound of writing*

Stefan dies by self-immolation.

It was E-P-I-C.

I had a similar reaction to Stefan's actions in the finale:

#I'm right there with you anon #stefan's actions in the finale don't make sense to me #and it really ruined the ending for me. I have zero desire to re-watch it.#anon for ts #ask for ts #reply for ts #anon #ask #reply #tvd

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kiss-my-freckle · 7 months

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Kevin said this about Stelena: "Well, I always thought it would be Stefan and Elena. They were sort of the anchor of the show, but because we lost Elena in season 6, we couldn’t go back." And the writer of the article adds this "...the show has made a point throughout its seasons of emphasizing the fact that human Elena is Stefan’s soul mate, and Elena had to turn into a vampire to be with Damon. Yet Elena had become human, although in a supernatural coma, since the end of season six, leaving Stelena fans quick to point out the possibility of the triangle resurfacing. "

I don't see how Elena could be Stefan's soulmate. Not that Elena considered him her soulmate.

Soul mates are nothing like twin flames, which is what I feel Damon and Elena to be. I agree that Stefan and Elena are the anchor of the show, but the anchor is just that. I have more respect for the writer who chose Delena instead of Stelena. Not because I prefer Delena, but because Delena is a bold choice. Stelena is cliché. Bold sells better in a vampire show. If they were writing for a show like 90210, sure, Stelena would be a fine endgame.

I laugh at the whole sleep spell stuff. Their best time to revert back to Stelena was 4x23. They destroyed every chance after that. The only way to sell Stelena after 4x23 would require destroying Damon's character, so I considered that episode their last shot. I never once feared Stelena getting back together after that, certainly not when they put her in a sleep spell. The only change I saw possible with her sleep spell was the dynamic of the Salvatore brothers. Even pairing Damon with Bonnie would've been writing him out of character.

In real life, Lexi has the right idea. There's multiple ones. That's why some people end up marring two or three times. I wouldn't consider Delena soul mates, but twin flames. Still, Elena considered Damon her soul mate because she wrote this in her journal. I don't recall her ever referring to Stefan as her soul mate.

Damon is what I consider forbidden fruit. Whenever a forbidden fruit is introduced, fans will ache for it. They introduced the idea of Delena from the very beginning, which was a mistake if they wanted all fans to ship Stelena. The temptation will always be there, and sometimes the temptation is just too strong. The actor that plays Damon and the way they wrote him made him one of the most tempting forbidden fruits I've ever seen. Fans are more likely to cut the damn anchor lol.

Here's a question. Aside from me, how many fans are straight-up Damon fans? I could watch this show and never once ship Delena so long as I had Damon. That's how powerful his character is compared to Stefan and Elena combined. I'd be a sinner every day of the week.

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unlikely-alliance · 1 year

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finished s1 of smallville today, took some miscellaneous notes / reactions throughout the season & posting below the cut mostly for me but also it’s possible someone may get a good laugh

101

how tf old are these people??? clark is a hs freshman? lana was 3 when the meteor struck and lex was 9?

clark and lana are so stelena coded

clark and lex… 👀

this soundtrack SLAPS… everything by life house????? I’m alive

102

I didn’t know lex/lana were gonna have scenes so early 😭 I love them I fear

the soundtrack continues to slap

not the bug boy having a papa roach poster in his room—

103

lex telling lana his coffee is perfect when it’s not even remotely close to what he ordered 🥹

104

lizzy caplan????

it’s giving katherine impersonating elena

105

just read that people thought chloe was gonna eventually be lois lane (pen name) and this looks like a chloe/clark episode… inch resting

lex walking right up to martha while she’s using a chainsaw askdjsjhkska DUMBASS

lex to lana: I think you’re with the wrong guy (I know he means clark but STILL 😏)

106

ERIC CHRISTIAN OLSEN??!!!?!!)!()(??????!!!?

does… does jonathan kent die at some point?

clark telling lex to drive slower because he could get hurt 🥺

“I think that’s your destiny clark, to help people, to save them from fear and darkness”

drowning in the corn tank… very a quiet place of them

107

AMY ADAMS??!!???!!?! what is going AWN

I have to admit I do see the appeal of clark/chloe and if I was watching this in 2001 I def would have shipped them

I can’t believe clark, lana, chloe and crew are genuinely supposed to be 14/15 right now and lex is like 20 asgjgkkf

clark making a drive in movie for lana at the kent farm for her bday— I’m not crying you are !!!

108

the candyman????? who was casting this show

awfully convenient that the next time clark had to save lex he was being affected by kryptonite… lucky this time

109

wow they’re really making chloe/clark/lana a triangle huh

110

clark interrogating lex about his new girlfriend saying ‘she doesn’t seem like your type’ and lex smirking at him for 5 seconds straight… what are they doinggggggg

I can’t even be mad at amy because I too would have an obsessive crush on lex if my mom was his housekeeper

111

clark liking chloe’s kiss… now they’re just taunting the chlark shippers

112

hellooooo shawn ashmore 😏

oh shit he absorbed clark’s powers

113

chloe interviewing lex & giving him shit… it’s giving 50 shades of gray I’m sorry

oh the clark/chloe angst… ‘I should’ve gotten to her’ while watching her in the hospital… it’s so good 😩🤌

whitney has powers now… inch resting

lex to clark: a man is measured by the quality of his friends

lana making lex proud with her business proposal 🥰🥰🥰

lex telling lana “this will be the beginning of an interesting partnership” in the same building where her parents met… that’s endgame ish right there

114

more clark/chloe angst with chloe prying into clark’s past and him telling her he’s not some mystery for her to solve… I’m sorry but they’re serving

lex working overtime to do damage control (mostly with the kents) every episode is so funny, give that boy a break

115

honest to god some of the special effects on this show are better than ones nowadays

jonathan belching directly into lex’s face… absolutely the highlight of the season

pete and chloe were carryingggg the walk n talk scenes on this show… west wing who??

this episode is fun (except for the creepy sexualization of 15 year old lana part, very riverdale of them)

this lex/lana scene ooooh they have the SPICE and lex seeing right through her act 🥺🥺

116

ryan outing chloe’s crush on clark we love to see it

117

this is a good episode idk what imdb is talking about rating it in the low 7s… the jonathan/clark (+lex/whitney) father/son drama is so good

118

clark kent 4 president <3

no but I love this girl who’s running against him

I’m sorry but clark/chloe have soooo much chemistry I’m so mad asdhhdd

how many people in this show are gonna be straight up murdered???? jesus

not clark telling chloe that she’s been the only constant in his life 🥺🥺

lex being proud of lana scheming 🥰

lana: I enjoyed being underhanded clark: lana lang being seduced by the dark side? <— foreshadowing? 👀

119

helloooo adam brody 🥰

air force recruiter to clark: I see you in a uniform flying 💀

chloe using adam brody to make clark jealous… she’s living my dream

CLARK ADMITTING HE WAS JEALOUS 🆘🆘🆘🆘

THE PRINCIPAL HIT ADAM BRODY???????

not this lex/pamela family drama making me cry—

the oc showrunners probably saw adam brody with chloe and said ‘get a blonde with short spiky hair for him STAT’ and brought anna in

clark grabbing chloe’s hand !!!!!!!!!! I’M GONNA SPIRAL

120

damn they really loved making chloe a damsel in distress huh

chloe was clark’s first kiss 😭😭😭

ok so someone was def trying to lure clark out huh

I liked lex’s line about the stars’ light reaching them now even though they died a thousand years ago / the past always having an effect on the present

the way clark says “hey 😐 … HEY 🥰😊” every time he sees chloe

not this john mayer song during this clark/chloe scene——— they were made for me I fear

121

clark’s truck blowing up ahdhshshsh my jaw DROPPED

I’ll say it… clark and chloe are steroline coded

why is this lana/whitney goodbye scene making me tear up 🫣

REMY ZERO PERFORMING AT THE DANCE !!!! and he looks just like lex lmfao

oh the drama!!! they simply don’t do season finales like this anymore

lex not saving his father… that shit was scury

+ misc tweets of mine throughout the season:

I hope the music supervisor of smallville s1 has a cold pillow every night and they have everything they ever wanted in life

really struggling with the fact that I ship lex/lana so much already and it’s only s1 and he’s supposed to be 20 while she’s 15???? this is horrible. like how have smallville fans coped with this over the years? I can suspend disbelief to a certain point but damn. this show is the worst case of casting 20+ year olds to play high schoolers I’ve ever seen no doubt

smallville 1x07 just ended with hero by enrique iglesias and then 1x08 opened with pacific coast party by smash mouth… yeah this show officially has the best soundtrack of all time

I’m only on ep 3 of smallville but clark/lana/lex is feeling very much like stefan/elena/damon

no one told me the smallville soundtrack was gonna slap this hard

#natalie watches smallville #I’m having so much fun #but also they absolutely do not seem like high school freshman and I just cannot get over it #smallville

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zalrb · 1 year

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A - julie plec's excuse as to why she just had to write a de endgame due to nina's absence never felt real to me. tbh, i think she's full of shit. she had every opportunity to start the dissolution of de, but instead she kept making elena's whole identity about damon and damon... well. I haven't really watched the last two seasons of tvd but i'm guessing he was the same "i can't be good without elena" jackass?

"take season 6 for example. That was the perfect point to start the dissolution of DE. Elena becomes so lost without Damon that she asks Alaric to compel her. Without her memory, she becomes more like her old self (which is basically what happens) but then I'd have her friends be awkward around her and I'd have Jeremy side eyeing her and I'd have stefan be as distant as possible with her (after all she's his brother's now and his brother's dead) her whole entourage acting weird is driving elena crazy until caroline or bonnie snaps and tells her just how it is. And Elena's shook, you know, she just can't fathom becoming that kind of person. So when Damon returns and Elena finally gets her memories back, she still doesn't go back to him because all the realizations she's had during her time being compelled are still there and she doesn't want to be that kind of person anymore. So the rest of the season would be focused on Elena rebuilding her sense of self and identity. Then she goes in a coma and I'd have her goodbye to stefan be a sharp contrast to her goodbye to damon, because she never stopped loving the former and she's giving closure to the latter. Then S7/8 would be more focused on rebuilding the SE bond on Stefan's part while Damon moves on. Series finale comes around, we get into Elena's head and realize that while she was in a "coma" she's been having hallucinations of her loved ones and Stefan is the one that she sees the most and makes her hold onto hope (kinda like Stefan in 5x01). Here you go, you've got SE back on track and the clear romantic endgame even if Stefan ends up dying anyway. Lol that was a long rant. Sorry. Like I said, TVD reruns have me a little frustrated. Feel free to ignore it all xD"

Stelena et al. Masterlist

subcategory: how i would *write* a stelena endgame

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austennerdita2533 · 1 year

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I am so glad you don't like Steroline either! I tried to love them. I really wanted to. I think objectively Stefan is probably the best person of all her love interests, and I almost always like when best friends end up dating. But they were awful! It was SO imbalanced. Stefan was so detached and uninterested. Even after their first kiss he's all "nah, this isn't for me" and throughout their whole time together he kept withdrawing emotionally even when he wasn't physically disappearing and ghosting her! He enevr seemed fully present, let alone madly in love. Caroline cared so much more and tried so much harder. And their romantic chemistry was nonexistent, which is weird because I feel like Caroline has chemistry with literally almost everyone - just not the guy she ended up marrying! So I ended the series not shipping her with anyone because Klaus is just too cruel, vicious and evil for me to want her to end up with him (no offense - I do see why KCers ship them because he chose her above all others and they have powerful chemistry!) and Tyler chose personal revenge over his love for her and Stefan was checked out the entire time they were allegedly in love. IF the beginning of the series had been written very, very differently, I could actually have shipped her with Damon, but in reality I ended up hoping she was happy single - or maybe even eventually with a more mature Matt! TY for letting me vent - I haven't watched the show for a few years but realized based on recent posts that I still have feelings about it! I also feel like Stelena should have been endgame but that's a whole different rant!!

I was never able to get on bored with Steroline as a couple myself. I tried really hard, too! I loved their friendship, and it bums me out that I ended up having a nose-scrunched visceral "eww" reaction to them dating in the end, especially when friends-to-lovers is a trope I tend to head over heels for. :/

Like you, I disliked how emotionally checked OUT Stefan was throughout their entire relationship. It just heightened all of Caroline's insecurities about not being enough, and I hated that for her. She deserved to be with someone who was emotionally checked IN all the way and Stefan never seemed to be able to give her that. Or, at least, that's how it was portrayed on the show. That's why I've always liked her best with Klaus. Because he did choose her above all else and pushed her buttons in a way that encouraged growth and self-acceptance.

That said, I did really like her with Tyler for a while, too. I was a big Forwood shipper back in the day. Their love was palpable as well as formative; however, I do think they both eventually outgrew the relationship they were in and so it had to end. I still get nostalgic when I think about "until we find a way," though. 😭

I don't think I could ever get on board with Daroline unless Damon had a full-on personality transplant. His behavior/treatment of Caroline was abusive. He always treated her poorly, even after they seemed to bury that hatchet for Elena's sake.

And as for Maroline, they had good chemistry. I'll give them that. However, my problem with them was that he put conditions on his feelings for her and was only able to like her/love her when she was human. As soon as she became a vampire, he couldn't deal with it and dropped her. Caroline deserves someone who loves and accepts her no matter what, someone who will grow with her, and I don't see Matt being that man for her.

Of anyone, besides Klaus, the only other character I could have gotten on board with her dating/being with is Enzo. Carenzo would have been an AMAZING ship. I'm still a little bitter that we didn't get anything besides some flirting between those two. WE WERE ROBBED.

#anonymous #replies #the loveliest of lovely people #ashlee bree talks tvd

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hellsbellschime · 16 days

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So sorry for rambling lol. It was such a no brainer because fans really loved Bonnie and Damon together despite Delena being so popular which really says something about how good their chemistry was. They were really dynamic and showed a different perspective of both characters. It's also interesting because Delena was always in my mind a 'when will they' type of a situation and Stelena never really (had a chance) to recover after season 3 happened, especially because that one writer who was pushing for them left the show if I recall correctly.

Unlike Stelena vs Delena, to me Bonnie or Elena could very conceivably be an endgame love interest, whereas Elena always secretly had feelings for Damon and naturally (minus sire bond) drifted away from Stefan to Damon. With Bonnie/Damon/Elena, in a scenario where the curse was broken or Bonnie became a vamp, there would have to actually be a choice since the very specific circumstances have his relationship with Elena be on hold, while still being committed and also having a serious relationship with Bonnie. It's also interesting because unlike Stefan and Damon in their love triangle, Bonnie and Elena are not adversarial, so someone's going to get hurt no matter what.

Like it would suck to be Elena and wake up finding your boyfriend actually deeply in love with your bff when you assumed your relationship would resume naturally. It would suck to be Bonnie and fall genuinely in love with Damon and if she turned/the spell broke, to be ditched by Damon for Elena, or lose Elena if Damon chose her, or even having to make the decision of choosing to be with the man you love at the expense of your bff. Damon's whole deal would also just suck in every way imaginable.

I can't imagine why someone who writes relationship dramas for a living wouldn't want to get into this because there are so many elements to that dynamic which are not only important for the relationship but also for them as individuals. Would Bonnie turn into a vampire for Damon, would Damon turn human for Elena, would Damon settle for Elena, if Bonnie refused to be with him because of her loyalty to her friend and how would Elena feel about that?

There are just so many different elements at play, no matter what choices the characters make, way more than with Stefan/Elena/Damon. it could have fuelled multiple seasons of the show. If Nina doesn't want to come back then just have some witchy magic done to put her reincarnated into a different body or something, not like we haven't seen that before.

Elena ending the series single after all the drama would have been funny tho.

Also if they had gone for Bamon at least Ian wouldn’t have had to try and fail to pretend that he would rather peel off his skin rather than pretend to be in love with Nina again.

#tvd for ts

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firelxdykatara · 3 years

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not gonna lie I would love to hear more about the drama and infighting that went on in The Vampire Diaries fandom if you have the time (and also want to use that time to give your experience with the fandom, which from the snippets you've told sounds Not Fun so I get it if you don't want to lol)

oh god, there was like, SO MUCH, i just

i really feel like tvd is one of those fandoms that is so hard to describe without a lot of ‘you’d have to have been there’, but it really felt like this huge and all-consuming beast for about five years until the show finally imploded and the fandom basically turned on it en masse. (you ever see that post going around that’s like ‘if you ever want to know what true regret feels like, ask someone who once called tvd their favorite show’? still a mood, all these years later. basically the entire fandom thought the show should have just bowed out with whatever shreds of dignity it had left at the end of season 6, and became more of a hatedom than a fandom for the last two seasons. when you have an entire fandom cheering news of your show’s cancellation, i think that’s a sign you done fucked up, julie.)

first and most infamous, of course, are the ship wars. which are pretty much inevitable in any teen-centered drama, and i really think the CW fucking thrives on them, but it was particularly egregious in TVD’s case because not only was the base premise of the show a love triangle, but the two main romantic leads were brothers that the show constantly pit against one another--in pursuit of elena’s affections, but also because it kept up this insistence on the ‘good brother/bad brother’ dichotomy which stopped making sense after about season 2 (by which time we have found out that the good brother was never as good as he appeared, and the bad brother has been growing and isn’t nearly as bad as he pretends to be)--and the question of which brother ‘deserved’ elena (and no, what elena wanted very rarely factored into these discussions, especially in the team stefan camp because they turned on her when what she wanted was no longer The Good Brother, but i’ll get to that in a bit) was hotly contested.

i’m not kidding when i say the shipping wars were vicious. i started watching tvd shortly after it began to air, which was late 2009, and kept up with it fairly sporadically over the years. i didn’t come onto tumblr until 2011/2012, and by then, the fandom was already pretty much a garbagefire. there were anti ship and anti character blogs, any time something bad happened for one ship the rival ship would invade the tags to gloat about it (seasons 3 and 4 were especially rough, and i’m not gonna pretend delena fans weren’t just as bad about tag invasion and shit, but as that was my side of the road i saw a lot more of the stelena shippers being assholes, which soured my opinion on the ship a long time before i started rewatching and realized the red flags were there from the start), confessions blogs were popular also toxic as fuck (so much fighting happened in the notes of those posts, good gods), and this was right around when twitter’s popularity was on the rise and the line between Celebrity and Fan was thinning, so the fandom was absolutely atrocious to much of the tvd cast and crew.

(some of them deserved a lot of the later backlash, but in the early years a lot of it was ‘how dare you write the story in a way i dont like, you terrible fucking person’, and gods don’t get me started on the dobsley vs nian Thing)

i think what really encapsulates my feelings on the tvd fandom as a whole, though, is the way they (to this DAY) treated elena gilbert, which can be summed up in one meme that gained a lot of traction around season 3 if i remember right: that gif of pam from true blood, with the text altered to read “i’m so OVER elena and her precious doppelganger vagina!”

i swear at one time i had over half the active tvd fan accounts on tumblr blocked, because i got to a point where i would no longer tolerate elena hate, and she was (and still is, in what remains of the fandom; you’ll see a lot of ‘elena was one of the worst things about the show’ takes from ex-fans, too) one of the most widely despised characters in the entire fandom. because she -checks smudged writing on hand- was a traumatized teenage girl who -reads off a crumpled notecard- couldn’t always perfectly sort out her own feelings and -squints at the ceiling- sometimes made mistakes or bad decisions. (except a lot of the fandom also insisted that she was a mary sue who had no character traits or flaws or faults and it was like....make up your fucking minds???? is she a calculating conniving bitch whose somehow manipulating these centuries old vampires to tie them around her little finger or is she a boring flat character with no depth and no flaws??? jfc)

there was this massive double standard, too--like, stefan and damon could fuck whoever they wanted and that was fine, but elena was constantly raked over the coals for the crime of developing romantic feelings for the two men who had become constants in her life and whom she cared for deeply, and oh my GOD the slut shaming that happened when elena slept with damon was fucking wild. (and also happened in canon lmfao. like the show had one of elena’s best friends basically call her diseased on screen for falling in love with someone other than stefan. it was gross and ridiculous and the friend in question was also being a giant hypocrite at the time since she was happily flirting with someone who was directly responsible for the deaths of like four of elena’s loved ones and her own boyfriend’s mother but that’s beside the point) but like elena was called a slut and a bitch and a whore for ‘cheating’ on stefan (she hadn’t, and she had in fact broken up with him on screen the episode earlier) and ‘immediately’ jumping into bed with damon, even though none of them said fucking boo when stefan had one night stands or damon had fuckbuddies or whatever.

shit, caroline didn’t get any of this treatment when she started falling for tyler while dating matt! which isn’t to say i think she should have, just that i think it’s fucking ridiculous that elena was absolutely demonized by the fandom for daring to have feelings for two guys at once and eventually acting on them--despite the fact that the entire premise of the show was a love triangle. it’s not a love triangle if both sides don’t eventually get explored, and the crew had been pretty explicit about the fact that delena was going to happen at some point--but when it did, a huge chunk of the fandom absolutely threw a fit.

and a lot of these elena haters were alleged stelena stans, and i say alleged because they hated her so much for not wanting stefan’s dick anymore that it was clear they were really stefan stans and only wanted stelena to be endgame because they wanted stefan to ‘win’ at the end of the day, because ‘he’s the good brother’ so he deserved elena more.

it was all very gross and very misogynistic and very sex shaming (apparently delena was a ‘shallow’ and ‘superficial’ relationship because they had sex after two years of unrequited feelings slowly becoming requited and then pining for ages on both sides, and because they had a lot of on screen chemistry that the show capitalized on for years so of course they did a lot of making out and shit but it’s not like stelena didn’t have its fair share of making out and sex scenes, stefan was just too much of a coward to let elena top i’d apologize for that joke but i’m really not sorry because it’s true), and when i say it was egged on by the crew, that’s because they refused to let the love triangle die back in season 4 when it should have.

they insisted on stringing stelena fans along, dropping little bread crumbs to keep them invested, like dreams of a future where they were married and revealing that stefan was also a doppelganger and he and elena were descended from a pair of star-crossed lovers (a plot that ultimately went nowhere, to no one’s great surprise), and then fucking like. julie plec turned around and threw nina under the bus after she chose not to extend her contract and pretended that stelena might have happened again if she hadn’t left the show, which....i mean frankly i wouldn’t put it past her, but it would have been shitty writing. then again, she thought having a vampire pregnancy where a uterus was magically transplanted from a witch into a vampire that could somehow......carry the babies to term.... made sense and was a good way to accomodate candice’s RL pregnancy rather than like literally ANYTHING else, soooooo. but anyway julie saying that around like, end of s6 sparked off a new wave of nina hate and elena hate and ship wars bc they SEers took it as ‘confirmation’ that stelena was REALLY meant to be endgame and it was all just a hot fucking mess

another thing is that, while tvd was in its prime before the anti/purity culture shit started picking up any real steam, there was still this pervasive attitude throughout the fandom that if you liked Damon, you were A Bad Person. liking damon was apparently grounds for insults and harassment, and apparently he was The Worst Person on the Show even though literally nothing he does on screen is any worse than shit we know stefan has done (and frankly every other vampire too, but i mention stefan specifically because he was always held up--in the show but especially in the fandom--as the Good Brother while damon was the Bad One, and if you liked damon more then that had to mean your morals were dodgy and you clearly couldn’t appreciate what a heroic and saintly figure dear stefan was and....oops, i’m sorry, my salt keeps leaking -cough-).

meanwhile klaus quickly became a fandom darling despite not even really having much of a redemption arc (on tvd anyway, he just became more ‘affably evil’ as the show went on and more inclined to work with the main characters rather than try to kill them; i have no idea what went on over on his show, though), and like i can 100% appreciate liking villains and not caring that they do dodgy villainous shit, even just liking them bc they’re hot and wanting them to kiss a main character bc they have insanely good chemistry (yes i ship klaroline, no i won’t apologize for it, they could have been Really Great), it’s just really the double standard that gets me.

and all of this, incidentally, required ignoring some truly gross shit stefan was responsible for wrt his relationship with elena, that frankly it has always bothered me never really got addressed in the show. i get why elena herself would never be able to actually call him on it, but the fact is that he stalked her for months after he first saw her and thought she was katherine (meanwhile it only took damon .5 seconds to realize she was someone else entirely, but that’s another topic entirely), and then he deliberately inserted himself into her life because, in his words, ‘i have to know her’. he never gave a thought to how his presence in her life might affect her (or rather, he did, and tormented himself about it in his internal monologue, but never let this actually dissuade him from disrupting her life), and elena would wind up blaming herself for every tragedy that befell her friends and loved ones as a result of getting mixed up in vampire bullshit even though none of it was her fault--she literally blamed herself for existing but most of the fandom didn’t give a fuck about that lmfao--and stefan did shit like find out that she was adopted and then withhold this information from her until she got pissed about another secret he was keeping (her resemblence to katherine) and drop it on her to try and distract her from her very reasonable anger, and like... i should stop before this becomes a whole rant about how much i hate stefan fucking salvatore, but the point is, he did a lot of really sketchy shit he never answered for and elena never really took him to task for, and the fandom just kept eating up his insistence that he was the Good Brother and therefore he deserved to have elena, and if she didn’t want him anymore it was because she was a heinous bitch who didn’t deserve him.

uh.....i think i got off track there. and there’s probably a lot of shit i missed, like i think i was incandescent with rage for most of seasons 5 and 6 so i missed a lot of the interfandom shit cause i was too busy being increasingly pissed off at the show itself, but if nothing else this should give you an idea of how much of a goddamn cesspit the fandom was while the show as in its prime. there’s a reason both the show and the fandom have such a lousy reputation lmfao.

#the vampire diaries #tvd #tvd fandom salt #anti stefan #anti stelena #salt for ts #asked #Anonymous

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bakerolivias-archived · 2 years

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vampire diaries

my “FOREVER” pairing: elejah, steroline, forwood, klaroline, beklena my “sometimes” pairing (if i’m in the mood): bamon lol, maroline, also stelena my “friends-with-benefits” pairing: bamon, tylena my “adele” pairing (“WE COULD HAVE HAD IT AAAAAALL”): ELEJAH & BEKLENA my “hate sex” pairing: oh klaroline 100%. also bamon. my “working on it” pairing: bamon. my favorite threesome / poly ship: klefaroline, caroline/matt/tyler, elena/damon/stefan when the salvabros get their heads out of their asses, stefan/caroline/katherine, katherine/caroline/klaus, rebekah/elena/elijah, damon/bonnie/jeremy but make it crack hahaha. my platonic “their friendship is too precious to mess it up with romance” ship: tylena my “i love it but don’t want it to happen” pairing: tylena, bamon my “it started out crack but now it’s serious and i regret everything” pairing: KLAROLINE JUST SNUCK UP ON ME THROUGH TUMBLR GIFSETS AND FANFIC AND NOW I'M FREAKING HOOKED, also elejah my endgame pairing: klaroline, forwood, steroline, beremy, maybe bamon my “across time and space they will always find each other” pairing: steroline obviously my “settling for second choice” pairing: dullena my “I don’t want to ship it but I do” pairing: elejah, klaroline, and bamon

#anonymous #anna's messages

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askandsmile · 3 years

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How many ships have you had there weren't endgame? Which ones was it? Hihi, Im simply asking out of curiosity because of your bio on your main. ☺☺

hshshshdhd a good 15.. from the top of my head i can remember:

ryan/marissa (she died)

brooke/lucas (we know what happened in oth)

jake/peyton (same as above)

kate/sawyer (controversial cause maybe they were endgame during life but not in the afterlife? maybe endgame but not soulmates basically? weird)

cook/effy (both alone at least)

stefan/elena (biggest loss but who could compete with delena's fanbase and julie plec's damon loving ass)

rory/logan (weird situation but he married someone else)

dan/blair (josh schwartz one of my biggest enemies)

nate/serena (joshua safran my other biggest enemy)

jax/tara (she died)

draco/hermione (were never canon)

bellamy/clarke (shdhs she killed him!)

there's more, not to mention my sex education ships are not conventional hshshd and in elite no one i liked ended up together either. what's funny though is that i've always known these ships weren't supposed to be endgame. with exception of dair for a minute midway their s5 arc, and stelena cause i thought that show could end anyway but no one could overpower delena... anyway, varchie will avenge them all!

#askandsmile #remembering when slowburns said i couldn't handle drama hshshd #bitch look at my ship list #anyway #about moi

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ptieuca · 3 years

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gifs and ships

i was tagged by @archiercnnies so here i am~

1. first ship:

definitely bangel. i discovered what shipping meant thanks to them. i was so obsessed that my walls were covered with posters -- even my ceiling. i used to record every episode on VHS in order to watch them over and over again. they will always have a special place and since the show was open ended, i choose to believe they found each other and finally got to be happy.

2. current fave ship:

varchie. i wish i didn’t watch riverdale. i wish i loved myself enough in order to quit this awful show, but they’ve got a hold on me -- literally the only reason i’ve stuck around this long. and to think i used to make fun of them along with the show as a whole, yet here i am. exes to lovers, here we come.

3. my ship since the first minute:

clana, hands down. i remember recording the first two episodes while i was out and when i came home, i gave smallville a try. after all, i loved the show lois and clark, so why not? i didn’t have high expectations, but they got me as soon as i saw them together on my screen. never looked back after that. sadly, they were most of the time mistreated (especially lana) and they didn’t have the ending they deserved. but they’re still at the very top of my list.

4. i wish they had been endgame:

all of them??? but for this one i’m gonna say brucas. if only cmm had been a faithful husband. their storyline wouldn’t have been wrapped up this way. i firmly believe they had all the reasons to find their way back to one another. and their interactions in season 5 was all the proof needed. i’ll just have to make up my own endgame scenario for them, but we were robbed for sure.

5. i wish they had been canon:

i had to really think about this one. but then it hit me. harry and hermione. i only read the first book when i was young, so my knowledge of them is non-existent. i know that the relationships are very different in the books, but as someone who has been watching the movies for years... the chemistry and the amount of time spent on harry and hermione could only lead me to ship them. they deserved to be canon in the movies and i’ll never change my mind.

6. most of the fandom hates, but i love:

karamel. but most of the fandom is filled with haters so that doesn’t say much. anyway, i didn’t watch supergirl for long, but these two were downright adorable. they literally bullied chris out of the show, but i’m thankful for the playful, cute and angsty moments they were able to deliver nonetheless. and the actors are not only married, but parents now. still a win, i guess?

7. don’t watch the show but i ship them anyway:

this was a hard one. and even though i watched a bit of teen wolf, i decided to include them because i literally didn’t watch their arc or any season past the second. so, this still counts. scalia were looking really good from the little i saw and that was more than enough in my book.

8. i wish they had a different storyline:

i put fuinn in the ‘fandom hates’ category at first, but then realized they were better in this one. the fandom still hated them and it didn’t stop me from loving everything we were able to get in the first two seasons. though, i obviously wish their storyline had been different. that might have helped a lot.

9. a background ship that i wasn’t supposed to ship, but i do:

i wouldn’t really call them a background ship. but wrencer i’m guessing wasn’t supposed to be something people were going to root for. after all, when ships are mentioned when it comes to spencer, wren is rarely mentioned. but i loved the small amount of scenes they had. barely watched pll, but you can be sure my ass downloaded the episodes when he appeared just for them.

10. my notp:

can’t really choose one, and they don’t deserve a gif especially not on my blog. but for sure sp*ffy, lex*na and d*lena. there’s a lot of ships i can’t stand (hello b*rchie), but those three have at some point been toxic and/or abusive. so they get to be at the top of the list.

shoutout however to the ships that didn’t make the list because i could only choose one per category and yet have a very special place too.

stelena

captainswan (can you believe i actually got an endgame with them)

serenate

rosschel

ryissa

sorry to the ones i forgot~

tagging @mendesapas @missanonima @itscornelialove @varchieforever

and whoever else wants to partake in this

#gifs and ships #long post

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francesderwent · 4 years

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read something along the lines of “klaroline was what delena tried to be” on twitter and i think that’s just about the most incorrect take on anything tvd related ever...and since i love your meta, i would love to know ur take on the two relationships (their similarities and the key difference between the two, even caroline projecting on elena, just anything really 😂)

aaaaaAAAAAHHHHHH anon I think I just developed a permanent eye twitch from that take

okay TO BE FAIR to the original sentiment: I mean, sure, okay, I gUESS that could be technically correct depending on what exactly you think delena was trying to be. the mysterious, sexy, pull-of-the-darkness, I’m-terrible-for-you-but-we-just-can’t-STOP-loving-each-other thing that s5 insisted delena was? yeah, absolutely, klaroline does that waaaay better – and I’m not just being glib, klaroline genuinely pulls that off in a way that delena never quite did, because that’s not them. that was a brief detour in delena’s story, which is much more a redemptive enemies-to-friends-to-lovers with a wholesome, domestic ending. klaroline never fully sticks that landing – Caroline never brings about, or even strongly contributes to, Klaus’s redemption; they never live happily ever after in a traditional sense.

I think comparing the two ships as if the writers wanted them to be note for note the same misses the point of where klaroline actually fits in to the larger scheme of the tvdverse. their love story does help us to see delena more clearly, but not because they’re the same. because they’re different! the way I see it, with klaroline, I think they’re introducing a third kind of Vampire Romance Trajectory (I know that’s a stupid name, but I couldn’t think of anything else, bear with me)

so first we have the Stelena Trajectory, with Stefan and Elena as the paradigm, obviously, but also including to some extent Caroline and Matt. Stefan and Caroline draw their human significant others into a world of wonder and power and magic. that love shakes Elena and Matt out of despair and monotony. and then Elena and Matt both make a fundamental decision to stay in the human world: Elena doesn’t want to be a vampire. Matt can’t be with Caroline when her world is so different from his. the relationship ends, and they go their separate ways. as I never tire of reminding everyone, this is basically the kind of ending that Plec and Williamson planned for the show. at root it’s a very high school kind of story: you meet someone special who shows you a new way of living, and they help you get through a difficult time – and then you grow up and leave them behind.

then, we have the Klaroline Trajectory, which also includes Hayley and Elijah, and to some extent Stefan and Katherine. this is a much more stereotypical modern vampire love story, because (at least by the end of the story) they’re both vampires. Klaus comes to Caroline on her deathbed, and tells her, “celebrate the fact that you’re no longer bound by trivial human conventions, you’re free,” and she agrees and lets him save her. in their story, when there’s an emphasis on “admit what I want”, it’s about that: about not having to follow the rules anymore, about being able to travel and see great sights and give opulent gifts, because nobody can stop you. the actual endgame for klaroline notwithstanding, the ending that I think their fans imagined and wanted for them was both Klaus and Caroline, still very much vampires, to be ruling some corner of the world as rebel king and queen. they were never going to have a white picket fence. it’s a story about love making you greater and more powerful than your peers, making you transcend. *cough*Twilight*cough*

and finally, the Delena Trajectory. if I had to narrow it down – and that’s hard, because their story is about so much – I’d say that their trajectory is about two things: redemption and coming of age. Elena draws Damon toward humanity and goodness, and Damon draws Elena toward adulthood. so there is a very strong emphasis on desire – but not just in the sense that these are two characters who are constantly attracted to each other! over the course of the series, both of them come to terms with what exactly it is they want in the other person. Damon discovers that he doesn’t want to possess Elena or use Elena, he wants to protect and love her, to sacrifice and change for her. Elena doesn’t want another high school fling – she wants a partner, somebody who won’t just distract her from the tragedy of her life but will help her bear it, someone who will form a new family with her, a husband. vampire stories are all about desire – and the Delena Trajectory ultimately says that if we go to the heart of our desires for other people, we’ll find that what we most truly, deeply want is to freely give ourselves in love. so we started with a vampire and a human – and even took a detour into a vampire and a vampire – but we end with the heightened intensity of vampirism giving way to the greater connectedness of humanity. it’s only possible because Damon really changes, and because Elena rejects the temptation of eternal youth.

now I’ll be glib: klaroline could never.

#asks #meta whine and rant #i'm tagging #anti klaroline #because it seems polite #not because i actually hate them #i just think they have a very fundamentally different kind of story #klaus and cami is probably the nearer analogue to damon and elena #thank you for asking!!! i'm so glad you like my meta <3 #Anonymous #tvd #delena

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thevampirediariesdiary · 4 years

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so something I’ve been doing for a long time on this blog is pointing out the turning points - the moments that it became less obvious or less certain that we were heading towards an inevitable Stelena endgame, the moments in which Damon crept his way into the center of the show.

and in a way they start as early as 1.03 - when Stefan told the audience via his journal that there was no goodness or humanity left in Damon, while we watched Damon sneak his way into Elena’s room and tenderly brush her cheek with his fingers. that early, we were warned that Stefan’s perspective is not simply the true one. then in 1.11 we saw that the whole other Elena that Stefan had yet to meet shows her face when she’s with Damon. he’s not only a villain, he has something to offer, and he’s worth saving. in 1.14, Damon lost Katherine, and yet he was still able to carry on, because Elena called his name. she became the new center of his world, his storyline started moving in a new direction.

of course, the one that I never stop harping on is 1.19. Damon made his thesis statement on vampirism and desire, and for the first time the story validated him. Stefan should have accepted what he is, he should have learned to control it. Stefan spiraled out of control, and Damon stepped up and stepped in, became Elena’s partner and her rock. for the first time, he seemed like a legitimate option, a good option.

2.08 reinforced the groundwork of 1.19 - Stefan is drinking human blood, Damon was right all along, and even though Stefan was the one who caught Elena at the bottom of the staircase, the moment was still all about Damon - about his devotion and his graceful letting go. he got his long overdue apology from Stefan, and he got his love confession with Elena, and he even got to prove himself unselfish by compelling it away afterwards.

2.22 is a true, climactic, defining moment. the bedrock of their relationship, forever after, is that Elena forgave Damon, Damon offered her his love even though he knew she wouldn’t return it, and then she told him that she likes him for who he is. “If I’d chosen differently, I’d never have met you” and “I like you now, just the way you are” change everything. from this moment, it’s no longer possible to say that Damon is grasping after her or she’s trying to manipulate him to be something he’s not - they have their moments of backsliding, of course, but in essence, their relationship has changed.

so all of these are turning points. but 3.22 is what crosses the Rubicon.

we arrive at the same dilemma we’ve faced so many times before, and we start to get the same answer: “it’s Stefan, it’s always going to be Stefan”...and then the answer changes. it’s Stefan right now, but Elena can’t think about always - all she can think about is this moment, and the shape her life has taken to bring her here. she fell for Stefan, he was there in a moment when she needed someone, and she never really un-fell for him. this means that the outcome of her choice isn’t determined by the men themselves, who’s more worthy, and not even by what she feels for them - but by her history with them. she picks Stefan because his is the story that makes most sense to her. and she says, maybe things would be different if she and Damon met first. and then the narrative steps back, and tells the viewer: they did.

Stefan appeared in a moment when she was drowning, when she was caught in grief and unable to move forward, and he helped her to learn how to live her life again. but Damon also appeared in a moment when she really needed someone! he appeared when she was caught in a repetitive cycle, living life, but living a life she didn’t want and didn’t know how to escape, and he made her smile, and he showed the enormity and depth of her own desire to her, and he let her know it was okay to want those things. the question is: what does she need more now?

I firmly believe that there could have been no going back after this. this episode sets up and guarantees a Delena endgame.

#3.22 #rewatch #the triangle #meta #there's a WHOLE bunch of other ones in s2

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