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#we could have really explored his morally gray views
bluesadansey · 7 days
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I had been trying to figure out where some of my issues with Emma's characterization post LM came from you are absolutely right, it definitely feels like CC stopped focusing in Emma's gray morality to focus on Julian's
In theory I think the idea of their arc being Emma starting off the more ruthless and revenge driven character then easing up on that mindset as things unfold with Malcolm (I really like that little moment where she tells Julian about how her conceptions have changed since killing Malcolm didn’t give her closure, but we should have seen more of her introspection on this after it happened before bringing it back up in QoAAD) vs Julian being more of a wolf in sheep’s clothing whose manipulation and ruthlessness becomes more apparent over time, until eventually Emma is willing to do something morally gray (break the parabatai bonds) that in this set of circumstances Julian will not do, is compelling to me but the execution on Emma’s side falls short after LM because there’s not consistent enough exploration of her changing attitudes towards glorified vengeance and violence, more of an occasional check in. Part of this has to do with pacing/structure and although I love TDA and find the ensemble probably the most compelling overall of tsc series it is overstuffed with how many povs their are as much as tlh is. But also Julian clearly took priority to her at some point and his arc is more the focal point of books 2 & 3 despite all the povs, maybe if that was only the case for LoS it could work because then LM is more Emma focused LoS is more Jules focused but even though QoAAD is pretty all over the place Julian’s emotionless + grieving arc feels like it’s at the heart of the book, and I like that arc I mentioned I related to quite a few of the grief manifests as repressed/controlled emotion aspects so subjectively that clicks for me, but it does put Emma in the role of having to be more of a tether morally for most of the book and then there’s not enough of a transition between that and the moment where she goes to break the bonds. So yeah it’s partially cc prioritizing exploration of the male mc’s gray morality as the series goes on and being less interested in the female leads corresponding gray morality (and I know I would be far meaner about this if I didn’t like Julian as much as I clearly do) partly just other pacing and point of view distribution issues towards the back half of TDA that lead to this. Is how I see it. I do also think there’s something to critique about how while I adore blackstairs and enjoy that they flip some gender roles typical of cc’s earlier books couples, if when gender inverting the bad-boy-with-a-heart-of-gold x good-girl-going-bad trope the male version of the good girl with a dark heart thing gets to have a more centralized arc that is allowed to go further gray morality wise than female chars you’ve written in that vein (I would say that both Clary and Lucie count as this, Lucie in particular has a lot of parallels to Jules imo which is fun family tree wise ) and have the more centralized arc whereas while I do think Emma is a much better written character than Jace who she was clearly originally conceived as the female version of, she doesn’t have the centralized status Jace does narratively.
I do think both modern TSC arcs end up prioritizing Jace / Julian over Clary / Emma in terms of who’s character and dynamics the series eventually revolves around most (although again TDA being so ensemble changes this a little). I’m meaner about it with tmi because I don’t like Jace and Clace doesn’t work for me as a ship, and more just passively critical about it with tda because I do love Julian and Blackstairs really works for me as a ship, so I’m definitely a bit of a hypocrite there but I’ll still critique what’s relevant. I think both historical arcs do better with this I’ve spoken before about how Tessa is my Favorite tsc char as well as protag, and I think her arc and narrative is really really good and that she is central, maybe tied with Will towards the end but definitely her narrative isn’t given less importance than the guys and I’ve disagreed with takes on that to the contrary. Cordelia is an interesting case because again, the overstuffed nature of the cast means she often does not feel like the protagonist in her own story and I found that aspect worse in tlh than for Emma in tda. However I actually really don’t agree with takes that Cordelia’s story went badly because she was turned into ‘just a love interest/got lost in her romance plot’ because imo James is way less of a character in his own right than she is even in the last book where he has more agency than he did with the gracelet. Her emotions and struggles drive the plot of their romance much more than his do, and outside of it she does get to be a more proactive character in the Lilith paladin plot, dealing with her familial relationships etc. So while I did often feel like I would rather tlh focus on Cordelia herself more that really had nothing to do with James who I think was just not a priority for cc a lot of the time. Perhaps there is something to the cursed plots Will / James start out with and that device creating a need for cc to lean on the female protagonist’s characterization more (but also I’ve only read TLH once so maybe my opinion would change if I revisited I do want to say I don’t think I am a TLH or TMI expert).
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mostremote · 17 days
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Can you talk about your opinion on Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes? Interested to hear why you dislike it. Loving the fic, my flatmate and I basically have a bookclub about it every Friday.
Thanks for the ask and I'm glad you like the fic!!
I’ll keep my Ballad criticism under the cut. I will only speak to the film, as I’ve only read little bits of the book. I also saw the film months ago so some of the details are fuzzy now.
Political philosophy. There are two versions of Snow’s origin story you can tell. One is political and the other is psychological (or you could combine these). A story about the rise of a dictator ought to have something to say about the nature of oligarchy, or how political systems thrive off psychopathy, or the banality of evil, or whatever it’s going to be. The Hobbes vs. Rousseau human nature question is Ballad’s only concern, and it explores this in no depth whatsoever. ‘I think there’s a natural goodness born into us all. […] You can either cross that line into evil… or not. And it’s our life’s work to stay on the right side of that line.’ This is so shallow, and we have no idea what good and evil even mean to these characters. And because Lucy Gray’s philosophical position and her vague exhortation of ‘freedom’ is so undeveloped (which is really just about rural vs urban aesthetics rather than any rights-based issue), she has no political role in a narrative about a future-dictator. Her role is almost entirely romantic, and unsuccessfully so (see below).
As for Snow’s philosophy, there is zero engagement with the dictatorial system that defines Snow in the original films. His final conclusion, ‘the whole world is an arena and we need the Hunger Games […] To remind us all who we truly are,’ has the seed of an interesting idea in it, but is unexplored. Why do people need to be reminded of their inherent brutality? What purpose does this serve? Why is it only the Districts who need to participate in that reminder, if this is supposed to serve as some self-revelation? Given that the Capitol is artificially engineering this brutality, how does that relate to some essentialist view of human nature? None of this is explored.
Psychologically flat/confused. Is this a story about corruption, a good man becoming bad? Or an exploration of psychopathy & violence, a bad man thriving? The problem is that this film depicts Snow’s first acts of violence, and yet they have no impact on him. His first murder is a completely justified act of self-defence. His second murder, too, is enacted to prevent a group of people getting hanged. He seems almost completely unaffected by these killings. Sejanus’ death provokes an emotional reaction, but given Sejanus is his friend this informs us about his feelings on guilt and loss, not about his feelings on murder. Which he seems to be fine with. Meanwhile, he has no moral qualms about become a gendarme for a fascist regime. Snow appears to have a psychopathic level of comfort with violence, and I would love if this was a film about a psychopath thriving in a society that inadvertently enables and celebrates such behaviour (Nightcrawler, There Will Be Blood), but it isn’t. We learn so little about the society itself and so little about Snow’s psychology that this falls completely flat.
Incompatible with Sutherland’s characterisation. Ballad’s version of Snow simply isn’t compatible with Sutherland’s regarding his thoughts on love and Katniss, and Sutherland’s paratexts are the entire reason I’m in this game. Snow finds Katniss exceptional: ‘no one else has been a threat to him and she was the very manifestation of threat,’ ‘Katniss Everdeen is the first person who has excited Snow, who has stimulated him.’ He is a man at the end of his life falling in love for the first time. And I find that wondrously compelling given the absurdity and horror of the circumstances of that love (she is ¼ of his age, he is the source of all her trauma). And he falls in love with her because she is a threat to him, not because she is pretty, or politically useful. In Ballad, Snow’s obsession with Katniss is completely reconfigured so it’s spurred by her superficial resemblance to Lucy Gray. I find this incredibly dull, and also confusing, given that Snow’s obsession with Katniss is weakest in the first film and strongest by the conclusion. Also, he is 18 in Ballad. 64 years pass before he meets Katniss. He should not still be obsessing about a teen fling. Gives it weird Humbert Humbert Annabel/Lolita vibes.
‘It’s the things we love most that destroy us’ is also weirdly revised in Ballad. In Mockingjay 1 it has the obvious immediate relevance to how Snow uses Peeta to control Katniss, sure, but as Sutherland acknowledges it also refers to Snow’s love for Katniss. What does it mean in this context? His love for Lucy Gray destroyed him? He didn’t seem to love her, and it barely affected him. His love for power corrupted him? But he’s never corrupted: he supports state power from the outset.
The Romance. Lucy Gray is a deliberately ambiguous character, and we never know if Snow really loves her or if she really loves him. Two dangerous characters manipulating one another with ambiguous motives can be fascinating (save me, House of Cards’ Mattie/Urquhart), but this lacked depth and clarity. Lucy Gray is too opaque, and Snow too underwritten (a better actor than Blyth could have maybe done more with this). Apart from both being pretty and (the film tells us) charismatic, there is little to make this romance compelling. This would have worked better for me if Lucy Gray had an actual political position that tempted Snow, but again, it’s too thin.
Ultimately Ballad is a pretty shallow film, and that’s whatever. The Hunger Games series is hardly a triumph of political philosophy. But as someone who loves Snow, and loves what Sutherland did with Snow, it’s jarring to see that interpretation thrown in the trash in favour of a few half-baked musings on human nature and such an uncompelling romance.
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kookieswan · 1 year
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Red Light - Further
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Nightmare!Hoseok x Psychologist!Reader
Word Count: 500+
Genre: Horror AU, Monster AU, Psychological horror, Angsty???
Warnings: Mentions of self inflicted bodily harm, mentions of violence and blood. It should be noted that this story will contain themes of horror/psychological horror and also explore obsessive behaviors and codependency. Many characters are morally gray. Please be warned!
Summary: Further into the madness.
Notes: A fun little snippet from the point of view of our special winged Nightmare. It’s a little different, but also insightful!
This a snippet from the Red Light series. Find the Masterlist here ♥️
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Sink in, further, further…
-hurts and yet I can’t bring myself to care. If I ripped away my skin, would I care then? Would I be able to panic or would I just sit there… Small injuries don’t matter but what if-
“Don’t.”
“You know it’s not nice to dig around in my head Hoseok. Don’t you find it rude? I certainly do.”
“Not really considering that you’re thinking about tearing your skin off like paper as a pastime. Quit it.”
Further.
-kookie looks sad today, I don’t like that no no no. Once I find out who’s been bothering him I’ll erase them from his world. Take their disgusting existence and turn it into a pretty picture for him to hang on his wall as a trophy. Such a pretty trophy.
Very dependent. His downfall… My downfall? No, perhaps not…
-uch a sap, can’t believe I have to listen to him complain. He acts like a hardass but he’s got to be madly in love with that man. I suppose I shouldn’t judge though, I know the feel-
Mmmh, feel bad for them, we would all thrive out there.. Further.
-gly fucks thinking they can touch me. They’ll fucking regret it, just wait till I shred them to pieces in the middle of my act. Tear every limb off slowly, rip their throats out with my teeth, crush their fucking-
Touchy. Angry. Insightful… Need to learn more. Further.
-1313 initially showed major signs of hostility, but has since calmed quite a bit. It’s a wonder… Something must have changed. Perhaps something _____ said to him? She may be annoying but she gets results.
Ungrateful waste of space.
-useless. She helps the freaks but does nothing else to contribute to the environment down here. No helping with tests, questioning our ethics at every corner. Someone needs to do something about-
It would be easy to end his miserable life.
-fire her. Maybe I could set her up… Who would believe such a silly woman over me anyway? She dresses like a skank and probably fucks around with some of the higher ups to keep her jo-
Killhimkillhimkill-…. _____?
-mmh, I should shake things up a little bit with the sessions… So far things have been great but maybe more interactions would be beneficial to the boys… More food? Pie this time? Or something else super sweet for the-
Don’t let it fester. Breath. Breath. Listen.
-should meet with Hoseok again soon… I miss him, but being obvious about it isn’t the greatest idea. I’ll think of an excuse, I always do. Those assholes don’t even know left from right half the time… Group therapy?
Inhale, inhale… Exhale, exhale…
… Hoseok, are you listening in? I’m never sure if you are, if you can, what the limits are… Maybe I’m just taking to myself. But I’m going to do my best to protect all of you, even if you think you should be protecting me. Trust in me like I’ve trusted in you, okay?
… Okay, my dearest heart.
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Tags: @parkdatjimin @sugarflywme @pamzn @mizz-kraziii @hiii-priestess @winkii @noonas-magicshop @xuxibelle @lookhere-2seok @m1sss1mp
If you wanna be tagged leave a comment or ask! My only rule is that you have your age (18+!) displayed somewhere on your blog! ♥️
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Hi gang!
I received a bunch of anons that weren't exactly positive, but I do want to address them before closing further public conversation on the Gogtroversy.
They will be put under the cut because they are DICEY my dears. Will have the same tags though and with proper responses :)9
(Also apologies for the caps people seem to be missing my point so I'm trying to emphasize the important bits to help with comprehension).
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Hello nonnie!
I was, in fact, very confused when you wrote "Yes does not mean consent" because, out of context, I was asking myself "Then what is consent?" Thank you for clarifying.
Now, onto your points:
As I have stated multiple times, I do not blame Caiti for what happened; that also does not mean I blame George for misreading her signals. I wish this had not happened to her, and I hope George NEVER does something like this again, but I also realize that this was MOST LIKELY based on PAST EVIDENCE an honest mistake.
Furthermore, as I also have stated, alcohol is a gray area I simply have no right to explore since I personally do not drink. If you want to argue about the morality of that PARTICULAR situation, please do so with someone else. That is why in my statement I excluded my opinion on the matter because I simply cannot give one. But for the miscommunication and incident I do have enough experience to discuss those.
Moreover, Caiit herself admitted she was already drunk before she was at the party. She chose to drink, which, YES, is illegal, but it was her choice to do so. All other party members were MOST LIKELY under the assumption she could drink since she already was.
Finally, please, PLEASE, stop calling this sexual assault. He touched her under her shirt above her waist. This was, at best, molestation, and even the evidence for that is slim. He touched her in a flirtatious manner, which made her uncomfortable. Since you mentioned legality, no court would view this as sexual assault or molestation.
That said, he SHOULD have asked for her EXPLICIT consent, and I do not support that. I ALSO think he can grow from this and become a better person without losing his friends and livelihood.
If anyone believes that a single mistake should dictate your entire life course, then I am sorry to say that you will have a reality check as you grow up and make those mistakes yourself.
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Hi nonnie!
So, uh, the last bit of your ask seems kinda irrelavent to the discussion as I have never spoken about those here? So I won't be addressing that.
Also, I stated my reasons why she should have kept this private:
She will most likely not receive a proper apology if she used her situation against him.
In my opinion, this situation did not warrant public attention because, at best, it was molestation, and, from outside perspectives who saw this evidence without knowing anything about the fandom, most likely flirtatious advances gone wrong.
Her story is now no longer being used to support her but instead is being used to attack the Dream Team.
Caiti's story is now being scrutinize for "if it's real" "if it is really assault" "was it malicious" isntead of validating her emotions and feelings. At the end of the day, those questions don't matter: what matters is she felt uncomfortable, and although George most likely did not, he needs to apologize.
To your statement "George does not care about consent," I honestly don't know the answer to that. I am not George. I won't know his every thought or if this was malicious.
What I DO know is that if we treat this as unforgivable, we set a dangerous precedent for people who want to change. So, for that reason, I am choosing to BELIEVE he did not mean it maliciously, and until FURTHER EVIDENCE COMES FORWARD, I will see this as a single mistake and not a pattern of abuse (which was the case in Wilbur's situaton).
Also, again, this isn't sexual assault, please check yor facts as I am. Moreover, please re-read my statement because almost everything I said was in that initial statement.
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Hi nonnie!
Saved this for last because it was very polite, and I appreciate it :)
I think we will disagree on this point, and that's okay. In your opinion, content creators should handle serious allegations publicly, which you consider these as such. In my opinion, I believe smaller issues should be handled privately without accusations since I don't view this as a serious allegation (although I still know Caiti is uncomfortable and deserves better).
In this current moment, based on what I know, what I have learned, and what I can interpret, I stated my opinion on the matter. I stand by the words I say here because they are, again, based on the knowledge I have. If, one day, I come to realize I was ignorant, like you said, I will change my position.
Thank you, nonnie :)
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graham--folger · 8 months
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okay i’m probably going to attract a bit of um. bad will for saying this but. all the people complaining about this season not having a plot or not a well-developed plot. i feel like they’re missing the point a little bit
s1 and, i imagine, s3 are where the real plot is. like the seriously important plot, the whole heaven and hell business, armageddon, the second coming, general good omens insanity. but neil said himself s2 was kind of a break from that (quiet, gentle, romantic, etc) and here’s why i think it’s a good thing.
this season was soooo character driven. and mainly exploring crowley and aziraphale’s relationship yes. but to make a serious thematic commentary, okay? the conflict between these two characters and by extension the central treatise of good omens would be nothing without this season or the attention given to the character arcs.
all of the minisodes were there to yes 1) build up the relationship and shared history between crowley and aziraphale but also 2) to demonstrate their differing world views if you will
you see aziraphale's continued black-and-white thinking and how he is still unable to shake heaven's hold over his concept of morality at literally every turn. he struggles to reckon with his own betrayal of heaven in the job minisode even when on some level he knows he did the right thing and then the whole resurrectionist business illuminates that rigid sense of morality again. and you see crowley repeatedly doing what he personally knows is right—completely free of heaven or hell's influence. he is operating as a free agent for the entirety of s2 just as he was in s1. aziraphale is sort of on the same page as him but hasn't quite gotten all the way there. yet.
and then you have the final argument and we really see this come to a head.
aziraphale thinks he can fix the system that he recognizes is not working as it should and wants crowley by his side. crowley knows that the system is too broken to repair and wants to get as far away from it as possible. neither of them is completely right as i know people have been talking about. regardless, this is the conflict, this is the commentary, this is the thematic basis of the show: the struggle against polarized thinking and the breaking from systems of abuse and moral absolutism—finding the shades of gray by working together. crowley and aziraphale's relationship makes it so they can actually take steps to wrestle with this fact. and i think it was important we got to see their relationship with humanity (and also human love) a lot more closely this season to further support that since humanity represents the shades of gray in question.
so, going back to my main point, this season was so necessary to really illuminate the stakes going into s3 and for the audience to understand on a much deeper, more intimate level the struggle these two characters are facing. we needed s2 to really ground the huge concept of the dichotomy of heaven and hell in the everyday and possibly even mundane (or as mundane as you can get with two celestial beings as the mcs) situations.
i don't think it would be possible to go directly from s1 to whatever s3 is going to be without s2 there to bridge the gap. it would cheapen the character arcs so much. maybe it could achieve the same level of commentary, maybe it couldn't, but i don't think it would have the same impact on the audience as all of the little moments in s2 gave us. it was incredibly character driven as a season because in order for the story to make this commentary it needed a moment to breathe and ground itself. season 2 was that moment.
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Haunting Adeline Review
Okay, you didn’t ask for it, but here it is anyways. SPOILERS for those who have not read it! My view from a more experienced kink individual who also plays at writing smut.
If you are not into morally gray characters or rough sex, take the escape hatch now. If you get caught up in illogical details and skipped safety measures and rules in kink (like I can be known to do), consider exiting stage left. Or at least hold your expectations lightly. This book will need to be read with a grain of salt if you’ve been around the kink world for a while, my guess is, especially if you are gen-x or older. We folks just have a tendency to our rules. 😏
I will say, my own writing is far from perfect. I wouldn’t consider myself as creative or inspired as this author, nor as good of a writer. But one thing I have been thankful for is finding a kink knowledgeable editor, who nudges me on things I should review. And kink experienced friends who will read rough drafts and give me feedback.
I have not read the second book that follows this up. Of course I’m gonna read it next cause you MF’ers suck me in with your damn cliffhangers (should prob be added to the positives for a sign of good plot writing). 😏 So all of this should be taken with that in mind. Maybe the author responded to some of these areas after reader reviews of the book in the follow up. I don’t know.
First, some strong positives: (that kept me around)
-Good overall narrative plot line, and I don’t say this lightly. I expected mostly smut. I was intrigued by what Zade did, and could have read more actually. Hell, I would work for him in a heartbeat.
-Girl writes some GOOD spice. My vibrator got a serious workout. Just sayin. Ya know, If you’re into rough. Ahem. 🫣
-Zade is a good example of a morally gray character I can generally get behind (or under 🤷‍♀️). Although I wish his character arc’s were more consistent and less cognitively dissonant. He could have easily been an ENFJ consistently.
-I really liked that they were both established adults, no college-agers here. Gearing kink towards younger crowds has an irresponsibility to it in my opinion. They may choose to read it but it was not marketed or designed for them which at times has a predatory feel.
-Her humor is top notch in this. For me at least. It’s in no way a comedy but the sarcasm by both main characters made me laugh out loud multiples times and was unexpected.
-The paranormal details! Why did I not expect this from this title? That was my own miss. Lol
Now, for the things I did not enjoy:
1. In this era of dark romance, you can tell authors who are actually inexperienced at kink, at least those uneducated and supported by stable dominants early on. They want to do kink writing and fantasizing but without the responsibility of education, research, or safety guidance. They want all the fun without the work. It’s an anything goes situation that I see now in younger generations of kink explorers and it is so dangerous. Also, very E.L. James style, which pissed off a lot of the kink community.
2. This includes no agreements or rules or safe words were made before (let alone ever) aggression/dangerous activity, and nothing needs safe words more than cnc which this series plays with. Although I do think this book leans more implied/dubious consent. PSA: ANYTHING WITHOUT ACTUAL CONSENT IS RAPE/ASSAULT. Do y’all understand this? Cause the police officer and/or judge will, or should anyways. 😒
3. No time to build safety/trust in the relationship before aggression/rough/cnc is just a mix for an emotional mess that won’t last. Just sayin. Altho I will give the author credit, it was far further in the book that they finally had intercourse than I expected. So there was some build in there, just not of safety/trust really.
4. Gun scene—‘Merica? I have so many thoughts about this scene that I could unpack. Was it hot? Embarrassingly so. 🥴 It was like I felt her shame. But that in and of itself concerns me. I’m not a fan of pushing shame in sex. But that is some kink flexible stuff. Secondarily though, I’m curious what folks from other countries thought about this scene. America very much has a different gun mentality than most other countries. No matter what side of the aisle you are on politically. Thirdly, this scene at one point did seem to cross the line into assault for me and I was immediately turned off. But I know some have weapon kinks. To each their own. Please play responsibly (like no bullets—check and double check before starting the scene, thanks).
5. Minimal to no aftercare throughout almost the whole book. Shouldn’t be a surprise with the clear lack of responsible experience. He literally just disappears repeatedly. If you aren’t aware of Dom/me or sub drop, educate yourself. It’s a very real need and might have settled her emotional drops that happened frequently afterwards.
6. Throughout the book, sex often feels impulsive/compulsive, like neither of them really have any self control or discipline. Zade some, but def not often. While to the inexperienced, that sounds sexy and even exciting sometimes, in BDSM, which includes rough housing and choking like these two like to do, without proper education and self awareness in the moment, someone is going to get seriously hurt, possibly die.
7. Inconsistent relationship/romance arc. Seriously. There is no V to this arc. It is like a heart-rate monitor on meth—erratic at best. One moment is affectionate and loving, the next is aggressive and mistrusting, and back and forth on repeat. There should be a path that gradually shifts more steadily if ya want it to be healthy. If we are highlighting toxic, then by all means…
8. Addie says Zade is unpredictable when honestly she is far more so, flipping from one page to the next between “I hate you, you disgust me” to enraptured and affectionate. I felt like I had whiplash at times from her. Like flipping a script even in the same argument, sometimes same page of paragraph.
9. Zade as well flips Jekyll/Hyde in different environments, when I’m not sure he is intended to. He could generally be ENFJ but then at times flips ISTJ, a night/day cognitive dissonance of protector/villian. Meant to go with the Batman comment ahead? Idk
10. Zade’s lack of background depth is disappointingly one dimensional. “Because I want to” makes him sound like a privileged rich boy. Death of his parents unexpectedly at 17 is dismissed as not tragic?? And it is here that I am realizing a Batman trope. This isn’t new in the darkness romance world of moody masculine rich antihero. Tattoo’s with no significance? Feels off for his character… until “anything of significance is a possession?” Hello again, Batman. But he has signs of being an empath, which is usually heightened by trauma and very relational. Plus his whole life purpose is built on significance that isn’t possessions and he dislikes the rich. So character arc is messy/lacking.
11. The book seemed to sometimes want to fit in some kink tropes just to fit them in—sex in a movie theater, running in the dark woods, in a car when the house is 10 feet away and you just had sex anyways, the seatbelts? That whole car scene really needed a developmental editor. I mean don’t get me wrong, as spice it was good. As a plot line it was messy.
12. Abrupt chapter/scene transitions.
13. Binary gender and heterosexuality tropes and microaggressions. Sigh… these happen a lot in the BDSM patriarchy driven community, so it shouldn’t have been a surprise. But it was mixed messages actually. Gentlemen’s clubs with all negative vibes/expectations (rather than sex positive), all drugged workers (side note, this may have only been referencing a club involved in the ritual but it was not clear about that), freaked out at having an erection after talking to Addie while then talking to a male coworker in what comes off as a homophobic distaste. But the book also throws a few very brief positive things in that are gender nonconforming, like a major secondary masculine presenting character wearing nail polish.
14. Hurts to get an erection the next morning? He may wanna get that checked out. At least by a developmental editor. Not the only detail that probably should have been fact checked.
15. No one MAKES anyone love them. HUGE red flag of a narcissistic psychopath, fyi. 😏
16. As well, no one should be saying I love you or they will be marrying you this quickly. Signs of love bombing. Look that up if not familiar and at least be aware of the yellow flags it represents (but also common in neurodivergence more innocently).
17. Btw, his one dimensional story arc only makes the above two weirder. We are the way we are for reasons. What are his? What drives him? I need more Zade. And I know I’m not the only one who feels that. 😬
That’s all for now. I do need to find out what happened though so, on with the show…
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Strikestone was such wasted potential, like he was Sleekwhisker’s and Juniperclaw’s brother, and both of them turned down a darker path. 
But we never get to see his reaction?
Like the reason he joined the kin in the first place was because he couldn’t bear to leave his siblings and then never have it explored when he was not only the tiger clone of his litter but also the only one not to do some serious murder?
He also the only one to stand up for Shadowsight at the gathering.
Not to mention he went deaf in one ear and that could have been some good disability representation
He could have been super interesting but no, he had to die in the battle against fake Bramblestar
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itsclydebitches · 2 years
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I would to love and talk in-legth about the friendship thing please, because it makes no sense. James never had an issue with having friends, correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought the only reason Ironwood didn’t want Penny out and about was to hide the fact she was a robot. Since this is after she was exposed, he has no reason to keep this secret. The Ace Ops say they aren’t friends (they are) and James has friends, himself. They just added it in to make him look bad.
Then talk we shall, friend!
For me, the two things are largely synonymous in the early volumes. It's like getting only the first half of a motivation. Yes, it's true that Ironwood didn't want Penny to have friends... because she was a top secret military project. And yeah, there's a TON to criticize there, some of which is alluded to through Glynda's horror at experimenting with souls and Ironwood's panicked explanation to Ozpin that Penny wasn't a weapon crafted against him, but for their protection. It's one of those choices that's dubious as hell, but has nuance attached when (as always) we throw RWBY's specific context into the mix. Is someone justified in creating a human-android hybrid in an effort to save the world from literal monsters and a grimm queen? Does it matter if people like Glynda are disgusted by experimentation if they're ultimately willing to let it happen for the greater good? Is one girl's desire to explore a city worth more than the risks attached to letting her wander unsupervised? Once the deed was done and there was no going back, was Ironwood justified in telling Penny to keep her distance when the second she ran into a group they marked her as "weird"? That within just days of knowing Ruby, Penny had not only taken action that could reveal her nature to an observant party (stopping a truck/scraping her palms), but went on to freely reveal the secret herself? Penny freely announces her identity, her unique characteristics (first synthetic person to generate an aura), and her ultimate mission for the Good Guys. If Ruby weren't the Hero Of The Story, that information would be really bad to hand out to someone. Someone like, say, the three Salem subordinates who have infiltrated the school as students and manage to take out Penny as a part of their school-ending plan.
"One day, it will be my job to save the world. But I still have a lot left to learn."
Much like Blake and Yang deciding to trust Robyn without good reason, or Oscar trusting Hazel without good reason — because trust is positioned as inherently good — that message bumps up against the realities of a war based in information, driven largely by betrayal. Penny revealing her android identity didn't backfire because Ruby is the protagonist. Trusting Robyn and Hazel didn't backfire because that choice was made by the protagonists. But everything outside of the story helping the heroes from a meta perspective says, "History shows trusting without cause — even with good cause — can end in disaster." Like, say, trusting Lionheart and giving him the power to eradicate an entire Kingdom's huntsmen. Viewed from that context — the context of Ironwood not being a hero protagonist, therefore forced to follow the rules of his complex, morally gray world, rather than banking on the fact that reality will twist to assist him: Amity is suddenly fixed! You have an all powerful cane nuke! — we need to ask whether it's really a sin to tell the incredibly young, naive, top secret military project not to go making friends in the new city because she might reveal her secret... which is precisely what she did. We may well decide it IS a sin, but the point is the actual situation is a bit more complicated than Ironwood being a big meanie who hates friendship as a matter of course.
Given those complexities and the strong arguments on both sides, I have more of a problem with the double standard. Meaning, drag Ironwood as much as you please for building a person-weapon and then dictating how she lives her life... but drag Pietro too. Fans hate Ironwood for telling Penny not to make friends, but no one cares that Pietro also told Penny to keep that low profile:
"My father asked me not to venture out too far, but... You have to understand, my father loves me very much; he just worries a lot."
Just because it's framed as fatherly devotion instead of military strategy doesn't change the fact that Pietro was dictating her movements as much as Ironwood was. Fans hate Ironwood for giving the go-ahead to build Penny, but not Pietro for both building her and coming up with the idea in the first place.
"My father's the one that built me! I'm sure you would love him!"
"When the General first challenged us to find the next breakthrough in defense technology, most of my colleagues pursued more obvious choices. I was one of the few who believed in looking inward for inspiration."
Fans hate Ironwood for putting Penny in the tournament to test her skills, but no one hates Pietro for doing the same thing for the same reasons, watching this experiment from afar.
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For me, this is a case of characters being treated differently because of how they're otherwise coded. Meaning, people have more of a problem with the white general whose disabilities are hidden by his clothes doing ethically dubious stuff than they are the black scientist in a wheelchair doing ethically dubious stuff. But they're both doing the same ethically dubious stuff. If people really took issue with building a daughter, using her as a military tool, denying her friends, and throwing her into an experimental tournament... then they'd be equally disgusted by the guy who came up with that idea, supported it 100%, and went so far as to rebuild Penny so she could immediately take up her "correct" role as protector of the people. But they're not because the problem lies more in hating Ironwood as a concept (military general, supporting the greater good over saving every life, etc.) + the show telling us we need to hate him now, than it is the actual actions he took pre-shooting Oscar. When you already don't like a character everything they've ever done is a sin and no, there's no gray area here because they're a Bad Person. Inherently. When you do like a character everything they've ever done is a wonderful choice, or at least justifiable and yes, the world is populated by gray choices with them doing their best because they're a Good Person. Inherently. Never-mind that in this case the choices are the same. Ironwood is the evil man who built a weapon. Pietro is the loving man who built a daughter. We come to two very different readings of the same event based on whether people otherwise like the character in question. Insert "Ruby is allowed to lie about Salem to her allies because she's inherently a strategic genius, but Ozpin can't lie about Salem to his allies because he's inherently a manipulative person" here.
So not only does the story grow hypocritical in regards to who carries responsibility for the ethically dubious choice, but the show failed to maintain a consistency that would at least say, "Pietro might have done shady stuff in the past, but he's improved while Ironwood has not." We don't get that. Putting aside Pietro's questionable characterization — the story completely ignoring his admission that Penny was built as a weapon, having him make the team upgrades when they join Ironwood even though the military is supposed to be criticized here, him being the only one besides Watts to literally take control of her (played for laughs), his desire to keep her safe framed as another adult controlling the protagonists, the show straight up forgetting he exists after that — Ironwood is not written as someone who is infringing on Penny's rights, let alone doing so in a way that is comparatively worse than Pietro. 'Ironwood won't let me have friends' Penny says, to her friend Ruby, while their mission time is used primarily to hang out in the truck and catch up, her uncle and the leader of the Ace Ops literally chilling in the back playing cards. 'He won't let me have friends,' is the claim right before Ironwood has Penny announce a surprise party, encouraging everyone to enjoy themselves now that work is over, leaving her there to hang with all her friends and eat cake. 'Friends are totally not allowed' is the message as Penny goes off to an election party, supposedly to act as a bodyguard, but since no one expects any real problems it's framed as another chance to hang out with Ruby while Nora kisses Ren and everyone else goes to the movies. As friends.
"I am so glad you made it! It's just Marrow and I tonight, so more friends means more fun."
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There's no friendship as they spend every briefing sleeping on each other and bringing in coffee. No friendship as Penny personally shows them around the Academy and wakes them up every morning. No friendship with Winter which is why there wasn't any conflict when they disagreed over how to handle Salem's arrival /s
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And there definitely wasn't a literal line in which Penny says, referring to Ruby vs. Ironwood's group:
"I do not like it when friends fight."
Because Winter is her friend. The Ace Ops are her friends. Even Ironwood is arguably a friend considering how chill she is around him (the boss you genuinely like and are okay goofing off around). They're all different kind of friends from what she has with Ruby, but that just shows that Penny has a wide variety of relationships. You know, the one thing the show has her insist wasn't the case in an effort to make Ironwood look evil. But it's the same as Amity being done only when the group needs it. Or Winter criticizing Ironwood for enacting martial law when she was the one to suggest it. Or the writers announcing that there was always this semblance influencing things... there's just no evidence for that in the canon. RWBY has a long-established habit of claiming something and then refusing to do the work of showing it. It's not a matter of "hand-holding" that many claim, but simply a matter of actually writing the events you say are happening in this world. Ironwood had a strong (if ethically dubious) motivation for keeping Penny from making friends in Volumes 2 and 3. That motivation was lost once Penny was revealed to the world, so what reason does he have to perpetuate this? We're not told because the only reason is a meta one: make the guy who will be the eventual antagonist look mean for no reason. Except RWBY didn't even manage that. Yeah, maybe there could have been a version of Ironwood that rejected friendship simply because he (allusion time) lacks a heart... but that's not the version we got. Ironwood is on his knees in happiness at Ozpin's return. He's the one initiating a hug with Qrow. He welcomes new allies with open arms and in every scene Penny is allowed as much friendship as she'd like. If Ironwood is the dictator in the making who controls it all with an iron fist, don't we think he'd try a little harder to keep Penny from doing friendship things if he thought that was wrong? He's presented as actively encouraging friendship and bonding in his own, awkward way. But RWBY wanted a villain and, you know, saying he forbids friendship is a shocking thing that a lot of fans will take at face value. The same way it's shocking for Harriet to announce that they're not friends either... even though they quite obviously are. RWBY, particularly the Atlas arc, gets by largely on the viewer believing whatever the characters say over what we're shown on screen.
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sanktyastag · 3 years
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genuinely so confused with people who hate show!darklng. show!darkling is as much of a part of oppressed minority as book!darkling is but with even more 'validation' for his purpose, and i see people still hate show!him saying "oh but he is very bad in book" but then i see them rooting for book m*l LIKE HOWWW [i do kinda understand with those who dislike book!darkling but im still as baffled when when they root for book m*l]
ah, the good old darkling vs mal debate, lol.
in all honesty, i think whether someone prefers mal or the darkling when they watch/read SaB really comes down to how different fans like to engage with media.
i really enjoy politics, moral ambiguity, and fiction as a tool to examine real world oppression. as a result (and incredibly predictably to every single person who knows me) my favorite character is the darkling, because his character is a great lense to examine those different aspects of the series from. but, let's be honest here - both the books and the show only engage in politics, gray morality, and discrimination and oppression against minorities in like... the most surface-level way possible. if you're not already prone to getting over-invested in those fictional aspects, there's very little incentive to do so - because both the books and the show only set the darkling up as a focal point to examine those concepts in book 1, when alina thinks he could possibly be a good person. as soon as the darkling is revealed to be an eViL mAnIpUlAtOr, quite literally all of the nuance is stripped from his character, and we no longer engage with any valid points he may or may not have.
which means, if you're not super interested in socio-political worldbuilding, or you don't really want to examine war from a philosophical or moral standpoint, the books and show won't make you, and so it's nice and easy to just view the darkling as the amoral antagonist who needs to be taken down. i honestly don't blame fans for not liking him in the books, because the books don't... really want you to. and the show does pretty much the same thing. the show stops sympathizing with the darkling the second baghra lets the truth drop, and so every single thing he was previously shown to care about is now framed as the manipulation of an evil, calculating villain. so if a fan looks at the darkling, sees all the evil shit he does, and doesn't want to look past all of that, in order to critically examine his character, and the biased way he's viewed... i mean. yeah. then they wouldn't be a fan of his. they're more than justified in that, in my opinion. "this character is interesting, you just have to look past all the nonsensical extremist, stupid bullshit he does that harms everyone around him" isn't going to be a universal opinion, and i don't blame them for not wanting to go out of their way to sympathize with an uncompromising, murderous bastard who doesn't really respect anyone else's opinions other than his own (which, i think, is true even of show!darkling, although he feels worse about the fact that he's screwing people over. like he might cry about it, but he's still going to go forward with his plan, regardless of who objects). there's a reason darklina fans spend so much time writing about what they think would have been a more satisfying or interesting character arc for the darkling to go through - because canon absolutely doesn't do him any favors. like at all.
and on the other side, there's mal. i actually like both show and book mal, even though i don't think book mal was always handled incredibly well. i think he's a fairly sympathetic character with phenomenally bad coping mechanisms, and that the story spends essentially no time actually exploring his negative character traits in a meaningful way, which means, again, that we're given a character who the audience is tasked with doing most of the legwork for, if they want to like him. just like darkling fans very rarely excuse every single thing he's ever done, i don't actually see mal fans defend all the shit he pulls - beyond when both sides are baiting each other, in which case everyone seems to say the most black and white shit i've ever heard. but that's just kind of how online discourse works, so i won't judge people based off that, lol.
i think most fans of book mal seem to take his character, examine his negative traits and where they stem from, pick how they, personally, would like to see those issues addressed, and then put in the work to give him and alina the breathing room to do go through that character growth together.
so, by and large, i think fans of book mal and show mal just have different concepts that they find interesting or satisfying to explore in the media that they like. i obviously can't speak for others, but generally with mal and alina, i do think it's an interesting coming of age story, and has a smaller-scale, trauma-focused approach to the over-arching, wide-scale moral dilemmas that i focus on when i think about the darkling and alina. they're two flawed characters, thrust into a horrible situation, and they're desperately trying to get through it together, while fighting for the happy, peaceful lives that no one else has ever cared about them achieving.
so, yeah. in the end, i think it's really about what a fan wants from the media they consume. there's not really a wrong answer, in my opinion. it's only when people start judging each other over their fictional preferences that things start getting rocky, which is something that both darkling/alina shippers and mal/alina shippers could probably be better about, as needlessly antagonistic posts are prominent in both ship tags.
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bookishlyizzy · 3 years
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discussing the final season of carmen sandiego
*spoilers* umm....so yeah, i finished watching carmen sandiego, and i’m left in a state of perpetual sadness and despair. i feel like the ending of the show wrapped up wayyy too fast, and kind of left off on a bit of an unsatisfactory note for some of the characters. although i love the large and diverse cast of carmen sandiego, one of the drawbacks of having all those characters and arcs and storylines makes it harder to cram in a satisfying conclusion for everyone in a twenty-minute episode. so here’s what i would do if there was more time. 
let’s start off with the threads that i think were tied off pretty well: 
julia & chase devineaux: i wasn’t really a shipper of julia and devineaux but i actually really enjoyed their relationship throughout season 4. we see a lot of character growth from devineaux in the way that he interacts with julia and the world. julia pushes devineaux to become a better person, to see things with a broader perspective and from other people’s points of view. and he does really change a lot into an understanding person instead of the overconfident, arrogant detective we first saw him as in season 1. in addition, he also grows to respect julia as a person and partner, and it’s completely adorable how he looks at her while zari tells julia that they’ll follow her lead. also i love how he keeps wearing his lucky cat jacket from san francisco in season 4.  
el topo & le chevre: okay, i was pretty much shipping these two the minute they showed up on the screen together. you can tell how much they care about each other throughout the series. whenever one of them gets hurt, you can really see how they prioritize each other over whatever thing vile is planning. when things are good, they’re so sweet and they have so much fun together. and they take dumb cute selfies. they’re so, so adorable, and this season definitely brings the shipping fodder. and they end the season moving on from vile and running a food truck together. the only thing i’m mad about is that we definitely needed more screen time from them. 
shadowsan: i didn’t like shadowsan in season 1 but over the course of the series he really went through a lot of major character development and i love how he’s now basically a grumpy dad figure to carmen. the season ends with him finally reuniting for good with his brother in japan, and it’s a satisfying conclusion for his arc. i also love how he was the one to help carmen in the finale when she’s struggling with the brainwashing thing. which is way better than the brainwashing being resolved by some bs like true love’s kiss. (also carmen and gray are way too hurt and they’re super not ready for a relationship.)  carmen sandiego is a show that emphasizes the importance of family with this father-daughter duo, and i think that’s something really valuable. also i’m interpreting that shadowsan isn’t permanently moving to japan, but rather just visiting his brother. he’s still definitely going to be there for carmen going forward when she needs him. 
player & carmen’s friendship: i love this show for having a male/female friendship with absolutely no romantic feelings going on. it’s a solid friendship, and depicts a wholesome, supportive relationship. absolutely no qualms here.
and here’s all the stuff that needs expanding/fixing: 
tigress: i actually really love tigress as a character, and i personally think that there should have been more of her in the series. i would have liked to see more depth and motivation to her, since she has a lot of character potential. i don’t really know how i would rewrite tigress’s arc, because it’s virtually nonexistent and there’s not too much to go off of. i don’t think she needs a redemption arc, but i would give her more of a spotlight. (also low key fictional-crushing on her.) i would like to include sort of a tigress-centric episode, which can also generally be more expansion on the inner workings of vile.
cleo & saira: villain couple. villain couple. they need to be a villain couple, enough said. i would rewrite season 4 to have include an emotional downbeat moment in which saira struggles with being able to fit in with society and humans and being completely awkward at it while cleo, in all her regal and ettiquite-esque manners, tries to help. this wouldn’t really help with the main plot, but it would be humanizing and provide character depth. i feel like this could be the b-plot in the tigress episode somehow. 
coach brunt: you don’t betray family. at this point, coach brunt has lost the daughter she raised, who, in her mind, has basically backstabbed her entirely. coach brunt was also betrayed by shadowsan and left for the police to find, and in season 4, malestrom basically abandons her to drown. and it’s highly likely that somewhere in her backstory she’s been betrayed many times, likely by her own blood family, which would provide context for why she’s such a loyal person to vile, who she thinks of as her found family. in rewriting season four, i’m adding one extra episode that’s solely on the backstory of coach brunt. in this episode, we would explore brunt’s upbringing and the first time she is betrayed by someone she considers family. in my opinion, coach brunt was likely pushed to fall by another influence, but she also makes the conscious choice to choose revenge over moving on. potentially, we could also explore brunt’s budding friendship with the mechanic, who we never see again after that one episode, as well as a reflection upon this from her adult self. 
gray & the freaking mind control thing & his moral struggles: *sighs* i can see what the show is going for, but i really just don’t see it in the execution. the way that gray struggles with morality is like it’s an on and off switch. he’s either graham, basic civilian, or crackle, basically evil. in that one episode, he flip flops between being overly heroic, even taking out time from his day to specifically track down a random kid to return his wallet instead of just dropping it off at the police station or leaving it where he found it. and then the flip side is like he’s just robotically relapsing into stealing mode, where he just suddenly has to impluse to steal literally anything. i feel like this flip flop wasn’t really a good portrayal of his struggle and didn’t really demonstrate many active choices made by him. and the way that he’s just like “i’m actually just evil” when he confronts carmen at the lab is just super one-dimensional. i just don’t buy it that he flips to vile so quickly in the span of a few episodes. i feel like there should have been more active reflecting and the decision should have been dragged out longer. 
also it’s revealed in the finale that gray also changed his crackle rod to not go beyond a stun, and i think this was a nice touch, because it demonstrates his aversion to murder, which calls back to the first caper, in which he’s confronted with killing the archeologist at the excavation site. but he doesn’t end up having to make that choice, because carmen stops him. but this time, it’s his own choice to take that step away from vile ideals. i don’t think gray is ever going to be a “hero” of the traditional sense or have a complete redemption arc, because it just doesn’t fit him. to be honest, i don’t know what the future will hold for gray, but i definitely think of he will fall somewhere along the lines of red x (teen titans) or catwoman’s (in certain comic runs) gray morality. (and i think the way gray returns to vile kind of screws this up.) he’s still going to steal stuff sometimes probably, but he’s not going to straight up murder people. he would probably be the type to work for himself alone mostly, but be okay teaming up with the good guys sometimes. definitely no joining evil organizations tho. 
gray & carmen & the “i know you’re in there somewhere fight:” i definitely ship these two, but i think they’ve got a long way to go before they’re really ready to admit their feelings for each other. i’m happy that the “i know you’re in there somewhere fight” didn’t culminate in a kiss scene being the thing that snapped carmen out of the trance. because that is just so cliche and not the message of the show. instead, it’s shadowsan who does. and that makes sense going along with the themes of family. i think the issue with this i dislike how there is no more elaboration after carmen supposedly kills gray. this is her best friend. i would imagine that the reaction would be greater, since he was also her friend and teammate during the months they were both working under vile. and then when carmen’s brainwashing wears off, she agonizes that she killed her best friend. but that’s it. the “i know you’re in there somewhere fight” is the last screen appearance of both of them together. then it’s directly cutting to taking down vile. there should have been a hospital scene where carmen rides with him in the ambulance and talks to him as he’s unconscious, and leaves behind a note for him to read when he’s awake. 
i just really think there should be a “heart to heart” scene somewhere in this finale where they confront their feelings (not romantic stuff, but more about like shared trauma at the hands of vile and their broken apart friendship). this could happen at that sydney cafe. both times carmen and gray go on a “date” she leaves him sitting there alone, bewlildered. i think the finale should include a scene of them leaving the cafe together and then walking away and waving to each other. this shows development in their relationship, and that they are now closer, but it also visually shows that they still have differences as they walk away with a sort of two toned kind of environment angle that shows the different paths they have chosen. (and carmen calls him gray. and he doesn’t correct her.) it’s more of a see you later, than a goodbye though. we’re also getting rid of that part of when gray says he doesn’t want to complicate carmen’s life in the hospital scene. instead, he’s going to ask for a sheet of paper on which he will write an indiscernible letter to carmen. (the same letter will be seen in at the carmen brand outerwear hq a few scenes later for continuity, but unopened at the time, as if carmen’s not yet ready to read it. i feel like both of them need to heal a bit on their own before they’re ready to reconnect. gray knows he has hurt carmen in the past but he also knows it will hurt her if he disappears without a trace, so he’s leaving her with the choice if she wants to see him again instead of making the choice for her.)
ivy & zach & found family: carmen leaves a note behind for ivy and zach and leaves to find her mother. i feel like this did not handle team red’s found family very well. basically, the whole show is setting up this importance of family, especially found family not blood family kind of narrative. vile blood runs in carmen’s veins but she chooses to do good and find her own family. ivy and zach both choose carmen, their found family, over their racing career. i think that they should have stuck together, and when carmen goes to find her mom, they would have been totally onboard dropping her off at the airport and saying a “see you soon” or actually driving her to carlotta valdez’s house in lydia (the car). i just don’t think that splitting them up via a note is really a satisfying conclusion to the whole found family aspect. and in that time skip carmen really should have stopped by to say hi to the zach and ivy and the acme squad instead of maintaining the air of mystery. that would have definitely pushed the family feel, instead of the mysterious loner archetype. 
that time skip thing: yeah, no. this part was completely not needed and unhelpful. instead, we’re going to have carmen hug her mother at the airport, and go to visit all of her friends and found family, especially shadowsan in japan and ivy and zach in presumably boston. and the time skip will be a few onths not two effing years. i think it’s natural for them to grow apart a bit and pursue their own personal goals in life after vile’s gone, but they’ll definitely be staying in touch and reconnecting and seeing each other pretty often. and lastly of all, carmen will meet gray at the cafe in sydney.
basically, this is how i would redo the episodes for season 4. 
episode 1: the beijing bullion caper. (this episode remains as is for the most part, i would like more expansion on lady doksu and shadowsan's past since it seems like their pasts are more tied together than is revealed)
episode 2: the big bad ivy caper. (this episode remains as is for the most part.)
episode 3: the robo caper. (the scenes in which carmen first meets the robot and ivy runs it over with a truck can stay the same. where we start to deviate is with gray’s story with a revised, more complex, and in depth view of his moral struggles. instead of being unaware largely as gray flops between graham/crackle, he’s going to be a lot more aware. he’s still going to rob the house, but instead it’s because he feels hopeless that since he was previously a criminal, that’s all he’s ever going to be. gray doesn’t want to be a civilian, and feels like the only thing that he can do instead is be a part of vile. however, when he sees carmen again, he’s going to realize that if she got out of vile, then that means he has a chance to get out of it too. gray comes to a crossroads of deciding between carmen and vile, good and evil. 
episode 4: this will be the episode that concentrates on tigress, with a cleo/saira b-plot. most of this episode will take place within vile, and give more insights on the workings of the organization. 
episode 5: the himalayan rescue caper. (this episode is going to get a real makeover. with the insertion of episode 4, this creates more actual space between the last time we see gray grappling with his big choices, which makes it feel like more time has passed. so it actually feels like he had more time to think. carmen’s still going to try to rescue gray, and the part with player can stay the same. as gray is manipulated by malestrom, i think this episode should further emphasize how vile manipulates their recruits and amp up the shittiness of how malestrom is acting. i think malestrom should say something along the lines indicating that vile is gray’s only family left, this is what he was born to do, he belongs with them, and make up a bunch of bullshit lies about carmen. malestrom will portray this stuff as the “truth” and then say something like “we told you to the full truth, while carmen was hiding your past from you. didn’t you say you wanted to piece together more of your past?” (which gray did express interest in a previous episode.) since more time has passed, malestrom will play the “if carmen wanted to rescue you, she would have done so already. she abandoned you.” card. of course, it’s not easy to get into a super advanced vile facility, so instead carmen’s going to be having more struggles with getting in, which is the real reason she’s taking a while.) i want to keep the scene where he says that his name is crackle, not gray and not graham. i think this scene is particularly painful because graham/crackle is kind representative of the two sides of good and evil that gray thinks he has to choose between. gray will accuse carmen of abandoning him, both in the present but demonstrating that he’s still hurt by the time when she first left vile, and all those times when she kept secrets from him and disappearing in sydney. carmen asks him to leave with her, but instead of him being like “i’m bad, and i was always a villain,” he’s just going to be hurt and feel manipulated and be so conflicted. i feel like gray would choose vile, but not because it’s where he belongs but because he’s afraid of being brainwashed again if he doesn’t agree and because he just wants to know the truth, which vile happened to tell him first (and carmen had been hiding it from him for a while). why would it make sense for gray to willingly side with vile because he’s “throughly bad?” actions speak louder than words, and it’s clear that he’s definitely not evil enough for vile. 
episode 6: the vile history caper. (we’re just going to keep this episode as is for the most part. but like more el topo and le chevre moments.) 
episode 7: this will be the coach brunt backstory episode, piggybacking off of her hurt feelings about maelstrom’s intended betrayal. 
episode 8: the egyptian decryption caper. (this one is just going to be as is for the most part. the cleaners kidnap carmen, but we’re going insert one more painstaking scene of gray learning of vile’s plan to kidnap carmen. he’s not going to know they are planning to brainwash her. he’s going to feel conflicted and try to protest, but then realizes that now that he’s stuck with vile, if he goes against them he’s probably going to get brainwashed himself. and the brainwashing was really traumatizing, so it’s understandable he’s really afraid of it happening to him again.)
episode 9: the viennese waltz caper. (mostly just keeping this episode as is, but more worrying gray scenes. i feel like he should have had a bigger reaction to seeing carmen so unlike her personality. carmen’s lack of empathy should have pushed himself to question if vile is really a healthy place for anyone if they’re so willing to brainwash his best friend in a greater capacity. i think gray should recognize how bad the situation is but he still won’t act upon it since he’s trapped in the nostalgia of their old squad and since he’s been abandoned by carmen before, he’s too afraid that reversing the brainwashing will result in a repeat of her leaving him again. and he’s still afraid of the brainwashing.) 
episode 10 + 11 + 12. the dark red caper. (yeah, this episode is kind of just way too quickly wrapped up. i’m going to expand this into a three parter so we have more time to focus on everyone. basically, we’re going to expand this for the angst. and because this is the last season and i need more content. i feel like we can follow the general plot trajectory but with more nuance and include the improvements i wrote above about the finale. absolutely pushing the found family trope to its limits, and less vagueness since there’s not going to be another season. oh yeah, and the scene when carmen fights shadowsan, i feel like they could have amped up the emotional stuff and make it as much as about him being her dad figure as the doll because #foundfamily. and also the extra time gives more space for all of that other stuff like endings for all the characters, and more team red found family, and a bit about the non-jailed vile operatives, and the acme team, and also maybe a little infrastructure rebuilding montage, and also that carmen and gray moment.)  
basically i just want a satisfying ending for gray, and i love him, and he can’t just stare out of the hospital bedroom and agree to stay out of her life while melancholy music plays. 
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razorblade180 · 3 years
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Overall thoughts on V8? Assuming you didn't answer this already.
I meant to do a volume wrap up review but I got incredibly busy and it fell to the waste side. The thing about me judging RWBY I have to come at it from two angles or I won’t feel like I judged it appropriately. There’s the casual, first time seeing the episodes and seeing this through the lens as a casual watcher who probably only sees the episodes once or twice. But then there’s the other side to that coin. I review these episodes, write aus, theorize, check extended lore, listen to the music, etc; that means I have to go back and watch episodes several times for any given reason and that’s when you start noticing the holes or picking up on things you didn’t before.
As a casual watcher, I’d give this an 8/10. There’s plenty of moments where characters do things that got me excited and plot points I wanted explored. This volume actually gave a decent amount of things I wanted for quite some time and some things I didn’t know I needed. Certainly there are things I don’t like in this but I’m open and curious to see where RT takes their storie because it’s their story.
Okay, now as a someone who’s had to deep dive and take a step back multiple times for a variety of reasons. 6.5/10 maybe a 7/10 if I’m being generous. A lot of my problems with this volume are problems that aren’t new to RWBY and that’s just how surface layer portions of arcs are and how a variety of choices/bonds don’t exactly make sense with what we were previously shown, or they only make sense because the writers don’t want introduce other complexities even though they should be there realistically. I’ll give a couple examples of these and yes, I’m aware what I say doesn’t bother everyone but it bothers me.
Qrow was never angry at or brought up Robyn being the reason their airship crashed in the first place because she started the fight; which aids in Clover dying.
Emerald follows Cinder, not Salem. Even if Cinder is working under Salem, why would Emerald be so willingly to complete shift to the side that actively goes against Cinder? There’s been no grand revelation to make Emerald believe Cinder doesn’t give a damn about her. Leaving made sense because she was about to get tortured. Going full turncoat right now doesn’t. No change happened. Emerald always hated being near Salem but adored Cinder no matter the crimes and the show hasn’t done anything to switch that view point.
I’m happy Whitley and Weiss had a touching sibling moment that implies they’re okay and making/made up, but there was never a conversation about the actual problem and thoughts that had them at odds in the first place. Weiss saving his and Willow’s life shouldn’t be the thing that smooths things over. It would’ve been terrible if Weiss do something to save their life. Whitley helping Penny is okay I guess because he really had no reason to contribute but did anyways. Even so, a person doing a morally correct thing doesn’t automatically warrant the conflict between him and Weiss’s resolved.
We got Cinder’s backstory; it didn’t tell us anything about how she eventually came into contact with Salem. Honestly her back story felt more in line of her main goal through the series was an absolute freedom by the means of breaking down the systems that trapped and didn’t give a damn, rather than her quest for power. Yes you can argue gaining power means it’s easier to maintain her freedom to do whatever she wants but I personally think that’s a little off the mark when you gave her a story that involves her trapped by rules and time rather than being too physically weak to gain freedom.
This show has built up that the Schnee family has suffered various types of abuse because of Jacques and uses Weiss as a medium to build towards breaking free from that. Not just overcoming but confronting the abuse by cementing it’s place below you. We don’t really get that. There will never be a moment where the siblings and mother truly get to break out of Jacques grasps emotionally and then put him in his place because he’s dead! Yeah they never have to worry about him again but even last volume they showed Winter still having turmoil and being able to get strung along by him. We don’t even really know how Whitley perceived his father. It feels so lackluster. Then they care to mention how it’s Weiss’s idea to save him like it’s an empowering moment when in actuality, it would be against her character, values of a huntress, and morality to let a person die in cell when you’re the reason they’re in a cell! Letting him die in there would just terrible. I don’t even know why he wasn’t let out in that scene! He’s a coward! He’d follow their orders to save his skin. All he has to do is shut up and walk through a portal.
Ironwood and Oscar both knew they could remove that staff to use it and Atlas wouldn’t drop immediately. Why did nobody have any kind of compromise with one another since there’s nothing stopping them from using the staff for something and then putting it back? They had this morally gray thing going on which I liked but then they decided to make Ironwood go full evil. I’ve never had to say this before but the song he got in V7 and the character they made him be in V8 just don’t connect. I got upset listening to that song recently because I liked that Ironwood.
Clover’s importance. RT tried making a character who had no more than 9 minutes in the series and one meaningful line of dialogue into the cornerstone of a side plot. Clover is such a nothing character. Vine did more than Clover. They try to make him have such a profound impact to the people around him but we never see him bond with his team; Harriet specifically. We get one scene of Clover telling Qrow the kids are fortunate to have Qrow even if he doesn’t think so. First, I doubt Clover knows Qrow decided to get drunk in a ghost town and the kids nearly died and cellar while he did it so that compliment doesn’t hold much weight for me. Second, We see nothing meaningful between the two. V7 has a time skip and just expects viewers to be on board with Clover being this influential change on Qrow without showing anything outside of a witty remark and Clover flexing his semblance. I would’ve bought it more of Qrow almost relapsed and Clover stopped him then had a real meaningful conversation.
Ruby goes against Ironwood only to then want to do a plan that’s aligned to longer term thinking than even his, talks about how everyone should be working together, but then adds a part in her video to actively antagonize and vilify Ironwood. Afterwards, she wonders where everything went wrong and doesn’t think of a plan or do anything to immediately help either kingdom until the final hour between the ultimatum being made, to everything getting destroyed. The inciting incident was disagreeing Mantle should be left in favor of Atlas but the main character didn’t do anything to help Mantle 90% of the season and hindered Atlas’s safety up until the final plan.
Yang is used to be the devil’s advocate in a bunch of situations, but she’s wrong most of the time or her lines just don’t make any sense. They weren’t doing just fine before Atlas. They almost died every step of the way. The team didn’t beat a Leviathan; silver eyes and a robot take credit for that. Why would Blake think less of Yang for wanting to go save people immediately? Blake was never mad at anyone to begin with. Yang consistently calls out people for following orders as if it’s objectively wrong, but is never called out on the fact she hasn’t followed anybody’s orders but her own and added discourse to every situation. I get RT is making her ask questions because that’s what Raven told her to do, but all she’s really doing is picking fights and disobeying every order. Yang states to Ruby they accomplished more than they expected. That’s false, getting Oscar back is correcting a mistake caused by her own plan that she didn’t even complete.
It took 6 volumes before Yang had anything to do with the Summer Rose subplot again and 7 volumes before her and Ruby had a sister to sister conversations; 5 if you wanna count Yang telling Ruby to leave at the end of volume three. The reason I bring this up is because in V8 , they treat their argument as if it’s a big deal but then have every character say it wasn’t that big a deal; but then have two circle back to that conversation later after having neither character discuss to anybody that the argument actually did weigh on them. Yang doesn’t think about Ruby until she sees her again and the closest we get with Ruby is Blake reassuring her that people need her and how Blake admires her. I like that scene but it’s not the same as Ruby actually airing out the specific point that Yang said something that Ruby found hurtful. Vol8 in general people trying to comfort others but nobody ever actually addresses what made them uncomfortable to start with. Except Ren.
This one is a nitpicking but I’ll say it anyways. Penny getting hacked only served as a purpose to go to the vault, a thing Ironwood already wanted them to do. Nobody got her because she was hacked. You can’t even say her getting hacked is the leading factor to her actually dying because Penny became a vulnerable human afterwards that can’t be rebuilt. Pietro was gone, and already stated last volume he doesn’t have the aura to build Penny again. If she died as a robot then it’s still permanent death. No core, no Pietro, and no aura; hacking her was just to create a Hound reveal situation and make them go to the vault on a different set of terms. I’m not exactly upset with this, but I don’t understand why the extra steps. The Hound was hunting her anyways. I would’ve brought some kind of value if she hurt a friend and it caused them to potentially hinder the plan later on or remove them entirely. Penny could’ve rekt Yang and it only adds value to Yang getting one shot later. I don’t know. I’m rambling.
I think I’ve wasted enough people’s time. Honestly, I do like this volume. I’ve enjoyed a bunch of it. But there’s things that legitimately make me think it’s not as good others and makes V7 even worse.
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irikahkrios · 3 years
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i think i've posted about this before but it's on my mind again since i just did garrus' loyalty mission on my current replay.
so like, emmett blocking garrus' shot is one of the most important moments in my whole canon, especially with regards to my ot4 getting together. emmett brings thane and irikah on garrus' loyalty mission (emmett can bring more than 2 squadmates bioware has no power here), and them seeing him stand in garrus' scope, the same way irikah stood in thane's all those years ago (an action that resulted in 20 years of marriage and a kid lmao), is the catalyst for both of them fully realizing and admitting their feelings for emmett. it brings thane back to that first moment, that feeling of shock and awe and reverence the first time he laid eyes on the love of his life, and it reminds irikah that there's still good people in the galaxy willing to do the right thing and protect people, even those who might not deserve it. and for both of them it just really makes it hit home that meeting him was a new beginning, another chance, proof that they can recover and still have a life and happiness after everything they've been through, even if thane's illness means they don't have as much time as they would want. it's just very important.
and that's not even going into garrus' reaction to it?? i mean, it's his loyalty mission after all. knowing that he has someone who's willing to protect him even from himself, who would never give up on him and always has his best interests at heart, even when it means disagreeing with him and trying to show him a better way?? and on the ot4 front it helps him understand irikah and thane's relationship a lot better, he starts to understand part of what the two of them mean to each other, the chance to be better for your partner but simultaneously the chance to drag them down with you and the constant balancing act, the morally gray push and pull of their love and how it affects them both as people. and he recognizes emmett and himself in that description a bit as well, very different from the krioses but similar in a lot of ways, and starts to realize that the two of them could mean the same to each other as thane and irikah. hell, he thinks, maybe they already do and just haven't admitted it yet.
so, overall, this is an incredibly important moment in my canon and to my polyship. but. i have a problem.
essentially it's hard for me to picture irikah being there and not trying to stop garrus herself. like this is a woman whose most iconic, defining character moment was standing in front of a sniper's shot and staring him down with righteous fury, risking her life to protect someone she didn't even know. i know by this point she's changed in some ways and become more morally gray: she approved of thane doing freelance assassin work to support their family, and the circumstances that resulted from that have even forced her to learn to take life herself. but it just feels so strange to picture her watching this situation unfold and not doing anything about it, when it's such an obvious echo of her most establishing character moment.
i know there's potential for her to chime in throughout the mission, joining emmett in trying to change garrus' mind about killing sidonis, and that would help the situation feel more true to her character. but that makes the final scene come off as even more odd, because she's been actively arguing against it the whole time but makes no attempt to actually stop garrus from taking the shot when the time comes.
however, i think i could potentially solve this by really leaning into the back-and-forth between her and garrus (and even between her and thane, who is largely neutral but does believe that garrus should ultimately make the decision for himself). i could have garrus fight back against her attempts to help emmett convince him, calling her a hypocrite and saying that if something happened to thane or kolyat, he knows she would want to get back at whoever was responsible. she's done so much in the name of protecting the people she cares about, people who were all she had just like his squad was all he had, wouldn't she do just as much to take revenge if they were taken from her by someone? especially if it was a betrayal like this, someone she had known and trusted the way garrus knew and trusted sidonis?
thane, again, is mostly neutral and of the opinion that garrus is an adult who can decide for himself if he wants this blood on his hands, and being an assassin himself he has no issue with it being a straight-up assassination in a public place surrounded by onlookers (an aspect of the situation that irikah and emmett are both horrified by). he understands both points and agrees with both to some extent, and i can see him going back and forth a bit with irikah as well, telling her that if he lost her, he wouldn't rest until those responsible had paid (which, thanks to the unimaginative minds at bioware, we know to be 100 percent true lmao). he reminds her that the situation is complicated, just like their own situation. how many people have they killed to protect themselves, to protect each other, to protect kolyat? she shoots back, saying that killing in self-defense and the defense of one's spouse and child is different from premeditated murder, and he replies that it certainly wasn't self-defense when he stopped trying to work low-paying jobs he wasn't good at and went back to assassin work, reminding her that she didn't try to stop him from doing that because she understood that it was necessary for their family. he does agree that it would be better for garrus to not give into his anger and make himself worse, but his point is that it's not simple on either side. bad things can be done for good reasons. then again, bad things can also be done for bad reasons. but if garrus is capable of doing this and feels that it's worth whatever it does to himself in the process, let him make this choice and live with the consequences if he wants.
and i think all of this does start to hit home on both sides? i think all of them get a little bit more unsure in their positions as the mission progresses. basically it's like. it's a complex situation and they're all complex characters and under the circumstances i can see irikah backing down and agreeing to let garrus make the decision. but after the mission is over, i can also see her feeling a bit guilty that it was emmett who blocked the shot and not her, when 20 years ago she would have done it without hesitation. it makes her wonder, is she even the same person she was back then? if she isn't, is this a bad thing or maybe even a good thing? is it foolish to even assign moral values to it, and judge herself so harshly for the ways she's changed? is it irresponsible not to?
i dunno it's messy and it's interesting and i would love to explore how irikah and garrus are both characters who struggle with having a black-and-white view of the world but in slightly different ways, and how this influences their interactions and their relationship. personally i do agree with irikah and emmett (obviously, since i have emmett block the shot, making this whole discussion a thing in the first place), but it's like. y'know. everything is gray and character perspective is fun, if a bit frustrating sometimes.
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gone-series-orchid · 3 years
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I know you've said before that you think Caine and Drake are pretty one-dimensional (and I agree completely). I was wondering if there were any other villains that you wish had been explored more instead of giving those two more page time in later books. Or if there were any characters that you thought could have had villainous potential that were unexplored??
wow, interesting question! i think my main problem with caine and drake is that they’re just kind of blandly evil, one-dimensional like you said. i think, ideally, villains should feel like real people.
funnily enough, i think zil probably comes closest to embodying that in this series. he’s mean-spirited from the beginning, but it’s only under lance’s influence (from what i remember) that he becomes a real threat due to his gaining confidence. i think it would have been nice to see more of him in the series—he’s insecure in his role as leader of the human crew, which makes him fallible. he’s also kind of unnerved by lance’s neo-nazism. he’s arguably the most intelligent out of the crew aside from lance. he’s not sympathetic, per se, but he is compelling.
i would’ve liked to see him interact more directly with the protagonists—especially astrid, because i think she should get a chance to one-up him in some way after he was thinking creepy thoughts about her in hunger. also, i think astrid, being the smartie she is, would probably be most likely to try to persuade him to turn over a new leaf—she’s a normal, and a white, aryan-looking (gag) normal at that, which would probably satisfy lance, and she still has distinct power in the fayz. though zil could probably poke a hole in her argument by pointing out that she only really has that power because she’s sam’s girlfriend, which is true. anyway, they could have words about it.
i think zil is compelling because he has the potential to be redeemed. it’s a slight potential, because he’s already done some pretty evil things, but he’s not totally evil—he has to justify the violence he commits in order to accept it, which is more than caine or drake does. we never forget that, at the end of the day, he’s still an insecure, blustering twelve-year-old. he’s an anti-moof bigot, but he could change. i think lance, more than zil, represents total irredeemable evil. he represents what zil could descend into being. he’s the devil on his shoulder (astrid could potentially be the angel if she maybe switched tactics from lawful punishment to direct emotional manipulation).
i’m a sucker for human villains and natural disasters being the principal antagonists, which i think is why the first four books work so well? i think fear and light suffer from the gaiaphage taking control of the narrative, villain-wise, when i think it worked best when used sparingly. gaia is pure evil, nothing more. she’s fun to read about in her own way because she’s so villainously campy, but that’s kind of it. she’s not really interesting, imo.
i think the reason why i harp so much on the insufficient “humanity” of antagonists like caine and drake is because that’s the principal strength of books (lord of the flies, battle royale) in the “kids trapped in place and forced to survive” genre: what do the actions of the characters say about human nature? about society? about morality? in lord of the flies, the message conveyed is ultimately a bleak one: the kids all descend into savagery in one way or another, with the purest one of them all, simon (the jesus figure) being driven insane, and the intellectual (piggy) being murdered. the story is all about “the darkness in the human heart,” to paraphrase the last line of the book.
in battle royale, on the contrary, the message is ultimately one of hope. despite the characters living in a dystopian fascist society that sacrifices one class of students to a killing game, the main character shuya clings to the idea that he and his classmates can figure out an alternate way to survive the titular battle royale aside from murdering each other. his compassionate view of humanity is validated by the pov vignettes given to all his classmates. all of them are given distinct personalities; some are kind, like shuya and his allies noriko and shogo, and some are drake-esque sadists, while the majority fall somewhere in between (my personal favorite characters are the girls that team up with one another in order to protect themselves from possible sexual violence from the boys. they hole up in a lighthouse!). but all are tragic in the sense that they’re children thrust into an unfair and cruel situation. even then, though, the nobility of certain characters shines through.
for instance, there are two girls at the beginning of the game who are best friends and don’t want to kill anyone. they (foolishly or bravely) use a megaphone to call out to the other kids in hiding, asking if they can all band together. shuya and several other characters are tempted, but sadly the girls are both fatally shot soon after their announcement. they die in each other’s arms after affirming their friendship, tears in their eyes. shuya and several other kids are devastated by the girls’ deaths. while some more callous characters deride them as being stupid and naïve, the reader is ultimately meant to mourn their deaths and the lost potential of a class-wide alliance. they know that their enemy isn’t their classmates, but rather the fascist government that makes them kill each other in the first place.
anyway—tangent aside—i think those two aforementioned novels are really solid examples of the genre gone is in. gone has more of superhero vibe to it, given the focus on powers and mutations and paper-thin evil villains, but i almost think the way that’s executed almost detracts against the aforementioned “kids surviving, etc.” genre? like, that’s all about the messiness of morality and human nature and whatnot, and while superhero comics can weave that into their narratives (watchmen, the brat pack) those are usually deconstructions of the genre than straightforward examples of it. the superhero genre is usually morally black-and-white and really action-focused. this is why i think we get the strange tonal mixture of kids reacting realistically to the trauma of starving versus reacting fairly unrealistically when faced with brutal superpowered violence, such as when brianna decapitates drake like it’s nbd. or anything brianna does, really.
there’s a shift from the realistic to the unrealistic that’s fun, but tonally dissonant from each other. so there’s this sort of disconnect, at least for me. i sympathize greatly for astrid when she’s slapped by drake and forced to call little pete a slur, for instance, but how many times does drake or caine murder a kid in cold blood? at some point it gets...idk, old? as the violence gets more cartoony the less it interests me aside from morbid fascination, and there’s just so much of it. it gets desensitizing after a while. i think that’s why, even though i think it’s handled fairly believably in gone, i had a lot more trouble with the monster trilogy’s blend of absurdism (the animorphs-style mutations like dekka turning into a cat woman with medusa hair and another character turning into a praying mantis with super speed, etc.) vs. grimdark realism (ICE forcibly deports a character’s father, terrorist violence is a common theme, the san francisco bridge is destroyed, a baby boy is mutated into a giant fuzzy caterpillar and then gets blown up by the military—like this is budding dystopia-level dark and the narrative doesn’t seem to realize it). it just feels too heavy and too light at the same time. the contrast of tones does a disservice to both of them. idk what i’m saying let’s get back to your actual question lol
as for characters with villainous potential...hmmm. tbh i think astrid has villainous potential? i mean, i like the idea of her moral righteousness escalating in a way that makes her more morally gray. she’d have to probably latch onto more powerful kids in order to have any leverage over sam and the gang, given her powerlessness. maybe she could manipulate orc into being her bodyguard while she plots to usurp sam or something asgjsjk. i think she could be a powerful threat if she wanted to be! it’s fun to ponder. i heard of an au where she joins the human crew that i thought was sort of interesting!
what do you think, @goneseriesanalysis? any villains you wish had been dived into more, and/or characters with villainous potential you think would have been cool to explore?
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autumn-foxfire · 3 years
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Take a shot every time a dabihawks artist goes 'whats the point of bj being alive :/ now hawks doesnt have as much depth'. Like holy shit its amazing how much time i saw it on my twitter dash cuz i follow a bunch of dabihawks artist, they really be simply misunderstanding their fav chara. They be like 'i dont want him to be a pure hero' like girl thats your down fault horikoshis been telegraphing hes the goodest boy from the start.
Idk maybe its because a lot of people that ship enemies to lovers are kinda used to both people being as bad but on different sides of the conflict like shizaya or soukoku. But dabihawks is very clear cut good vs evil n that dont fit the ship dynamic so they bend hawks in their head to fit it in. Like ye it harder to find the justification for them to end up together and you have to deal with the fact that ur fav might be objectivly worse but if you cut hawls character down and say its boring if it doesnt fit what you imagined, well that just means that u like hawks more as 'dabis boyfriend' or 'hero turned villain' that u like him more as those ideas then what he actually is in the manga and thats no ones fault but ur own.
Like im just bothered by the fact that so many are now saying this is 'boring'. Like ye corrupted heroes are very fun, 'license to kill' heroes are very fun, heroes that make questionable decisions are very fun. Morally gray characters are very fun.
But hawks doesnt have to be that to be fun and interesting
Hawks started of as a child with inclination to save, with admiration to heroes and a naive wish to be like his personal heroes. A morally gray government organization bought him out and trained him since he was a lil baby boy to give up his name and his identity and to be a perfect little child soldier. He got wise to the corruption and his innocent and pure view of the world was dashed. But he still had that inclination to save people so he stuck by (though having no where else to go and no knowledge of anything else also counts in) and he formed his own image of a hero and he kept his ear to the ground ans he fought and saved without a break. Despite his innocent world views being dashed, he didnt let the same happen to his dreams and he continued pushing from inside the organization that raises him and inspite of it to do good things good way. You could still say he has naive dreams, like wanting to eliminate the need for heroes inside his lifetime, but he pushes for them so strongly and he cares so much and no matter what he always tries to save the maximum number of people he can.
And i dont think thats boring. Hawks is an overwhelmingly good character who often has tough decisions pushed on to him because of the organoization he belongs to. We are used to those kind of characters bending and breaking and corrupting under pressure but hawks so strongly sticks to being good to saving people no mattee what even if it endangers him. Theres nothing boring about wanting to be a good person and working hard to remain a good person despite the entier world pushing you to corruption.
Say it with me kids morally darker doesnt equal more interesting. Being good isnt boring.
If I took a shot everytime I saw a dabihawks artist say that on twitter, I’m pretty sure I would be dead from alcohol poisoning.
As you said, so many of them seem to misunderstand Hawks character or wanted him to be dragged down to Dabi’s level for some bizarre reason. It is possibly because they’re used to enemies to lovers ships that have both the characters be assholes in some way (neither good or bad) and Dabihawks isn’t a ship that fits this mold. Dabi is objectively the bad guy in this ship, not only is he the villain in the manga, he’s also done bad things to Hawks too, meanwhile the worst you could argue Hawks has done to Dabi is threaten him at knife point (though that was for his own protection), killed someone in front of him (whether Dabi was affected by that is still highly debatable) and ruined his plans (which... duh, Hawks is a hero).
But! They could still work as a couple! Any ship can in fanon. However for it to be a plausible relationship, you’re going to either have a fall from grace arc for Hawks (which many for some reason thought was going to happen in canon) or a redemption arc for Dabi. And because many people seem to love the “found family” of the League, they usually go for the fall from grace with Hawks. That’s probably why they were so disappointed that it didn’t become a canon aspect of his character, because they like the idea of him falling from grace (...I don’t get the appeal but to each their own).
I just wish they’d stop it with calling Hawks boring because Horikoshi didn’t write what they personally wanted to see. As you said, their are many, many interesting aspects to Hawks character outside of his brief affiliation to the League and it’s so frustrating to see these people call them boring! There’s nothing boring about being a good person! Especially when we see that good person pushed to the breaking point with their ideals and pushed into corners and made to commit difficult decisions! We get to see Hawks be a complex person and explore morality with him and these people think that’s boring?! And think Hawks becoming morally bankrupt is interesting (haven’t we got enough of those characters with the League?)
They have a dumb definition of boring and interesting if you ask me.
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pumpkaaboo · 3 years
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Madoka Magica rewatch: episode 1
Hey guys! I’ve decided to rewatch Puella Magi Madoka Magica (considering that the last time I watched it, I was 12, up past my bedtime, and at a sleepover with my friends. we watched the whole thing in one night. needless to say, a lot of things flew over my head). I want to pay attention to two things in particular: symbolism, and parallels to Revolutionary Girl Utena (specifically, eggs. that will make sense if you’ve seen utena). Most of what I’m going to talk about is probably a reach and/or not intended by the creators, but hey, overanalyzing every minute detail of things to the death is fun. (Note: these posts will contain spoilers for the entirety of madoka magica, and probably bits of utena as well) If you don’t want to see these posts, you can blacklist the tags “#pmmm” or “#pmmm rewatch”. Without further ado, let’s get into it!
So right off the bat, we have a parallel to utena. The very first shot in both...
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...is a curtain being raised. This is very interesting to me; it gives the idea that what we’re about to see is a performance of some kind. Whether it means that the whole thing is a performance, or just the dream/flashback we’re about to see, is something I’ll have to look out for. Regardless, just as in utena, I’m going to take this as an indication that what I’m about to watch should not be taken at face value.
Also worthy of note that this is the first time we get to see the beautiful paper cutout style in the witch labyrinths. It’s one of the defining artistic features of this anime, and I can’t wait to see it again.
Then there’s a shot of what appears to be a grief seed with some text in a conlang I can’t read and then... this.
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...yeah, I’m at a loss. Is this Madoka’s witch? I think it might be. The background kind of looks like a record from this angle, but broken by that black... slice? bar? witch? Also, there’s the sound of what I think is a tape running through a film projector-yet another indication that what’s to come is a story a performance, not necessarily reflective of reality. However, in contrast to Utena, which uses theater/live performances and plays, Madoka seems to be using film. Film is static, unchanging-you can watch a movie as many times as you want, but aside from file corruption or physical damage to your equipment, it will play out exactly the same way. Theater, meanwhile, is much more dynamic-the actors and the audience have a tremendous amount of influence on the way things go, even if specific plot points must remain the same. I like that, as a difference between the two, because while in Utena, the duelists are always different and the circumstances of the cycle are always changing (even if the end result is always the same), while in Madoka, Homura is repeating the exact same month, and everyone else stays exactly the same except for her (the audience? much to think about).
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We have several shots of Madoka running through this stark black and white landscape. She’s the only spot of color in it, and each shot is more impossible and dreamlike than the last.
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Finally, she comes to this bright green exit sign-a complementary color to her hair. It’s surrounded by darkness and metal fencing (only visible in the previous shot)-perhaps meaning that, for Madoka to be able to move forward, she will have to travel into darkness, towards something the opposite of herself? I also find the framing of the shot to be very reminiscent of this:
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Madoka must ascend the stairs before opening the door, however, not after. I’ll talk a bit more about this parallel later, though, because Madoka opens the door and sees...
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...that. Walpurgisnacht has the same pattern behind her that the weird shot of the record did earlier, so maybe I was misreading that and it’s supposed to represent her, not Madoka’s witch whose name escapes me. Also worthy of note that Madoka is moving from an unreal space of equal parts light and dark (where the two were distinctly separated) to a more “real” world of black and gray-and where darkness and the few patches of light often blend together smoothly. I think this is supposed to represent her idealistic worldview clashing against the world where Magical Girls must constantly risk their lives, make morally gray decisions, and fight witches for survival.
I’m not really sure of what to think of the parallel between Madoka entering the battle with Walpurgisnacht and Utena entering the dueling arena, but if we take it as her going from a place inside of her own mind, where her assumptions about the world are unchallenged, into a place where a battle of ideology where no one is truly, 100% noble (even though some may hold the definite moral high ground) might work, but Utena’s dueling arena is also a place of trying to obtain that true nobility. Then again, that could be a parallel to Madoka’s wish in the end, couldn’t it? But I don‘t think it’s a 1-1 parallel, nor do I think it should be expected to be. I’m happy to think of it as a (possibly unintentional) nod to one of the show’s major influences.
Also I just noticed that Walpurgisnacht’s design sort of mirrors itself and works just as well upside down as right side up-hold on let me just-
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yeah.
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Here we have a shot of Madoka standing on a maze of scaffolding-the path ahead of her will be treacherous, full of dead ends and places to plummet to the ground. But we don’t have time to talk about that because HOMURA
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So our first shot of this character-arguably tied for “most important in the show” with Madoka herself-is from a distance, standing on a pillar of darkness, surrounded by flashing red lights. The camera constantly focuses in and out-she’s distant, and it’s hard to figure out what she’s doing or thinking. But then we cut closer to her-
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-and we see her face right before she gets hit by a skyscraper-
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-and it becomes clear that whoever this is, she’s someone to pay attention to, someone whose inner mind and motivations the series will be exploring. Also I love how she’s not scared of the skyscraper at all, seeming to view it as more of a minor inconvenience more than anything. Because to her, it is!
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Also, here we have the first actual bright colors in the show besides the green exit sign. I note that Homura is raising her shield here, not firing one of her (many) guns/explosives-our first impression of her is a mysterious one, but also of protection, though who or what she’s trying to protect remains to be seen.
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...and here we have the first voice line of the series. Seems appropriate, given the general tone, but I also think it’s important to note that our first impression of Homura is protectiveness, and our first impression of Madoka is compassion and sympathy...
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...while our first impression of Kyubey is fatalism and discouragement. Not exactly a good look for a character who’s supposed to be guiding and supporting the heroes, huh. Kyubey knows exactly what he’s after, and he knows exactly how to get it.
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And here we have the entire thesis of Madoka’s character in one line.
Seriously, all of it’s right there! Compassion for those suffering, an acknowledgement that the current circumstances are unjust, are wrong. This isn’t how magical girl shows are supposed to go, this isn’t how heroes are supposed to have to fight, and Madoka is unwilling to accept a world where this level of injustice is the norm. God, what a great way to introduce the entire main conflict of both the protagonist and the show!
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Here’s our first clear shot of Kyubey, and he looks even more blank and eerie than usual-I think it’s the fact that he has no visible pupils. Also a great bit of foreshadowing; you don’t typically introduce a character that’s going to be helpful like this.
Kyubey tells Madoka that she has the power to change this fate-to alter the horrible destiny in front of her. “Can I really?” asks Madoka.
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That’s why Madoka wants power-she wants to be able to help. And she can, but she’ll have to be very careful about how she words her wish, because otherwise, she might just end up making things worse. It’s worth noting that she wants to change the ending-perhaps foreshadowing her eventual wish to stop magical girls from becoming witches (any girl who cannot become a princess..), changing the inevitable end of their lives.
I love how the branches of the tree(?) are breaking up the frame, making it look fractured or like slash marks, showing how the characters are broken and disoriented, and visually representing the separation between Madoka, Homura, and Walpurgisnacht. It’s a neat trick that was used to great effect in Adolescence of Utena (though usually it was associated specifically with blades or impalement in that case).
Kyubey offers his contract to Madoka, and she looks at the camera, determined, crowned and wreathed by the rubble around her...
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...and then wakes up, in her bed, surrounded by warmth and pink and soft things and hearts. Also, I think the aspect ratio changed at this part? I’m not really sure why that is-maybe to convey that they’re going from the cinematic final conflict to Madoka’s everyday life?
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Silhouetted by the warm window behind her almost like a halo, watched by her stuffed animals and embracing another, Madoka asks if it was all a dream. She noticeably sits up so her entire head is in the light, and then leans down so only half of it is-she hasn’t fully committed to the heroism she’ll come to embody yet.
Okay, that’s enough for now, it’s been like two hours and I’ve only gotten through one scene. I was hoping to be able to get through this quickly, but I should have known better. Part 2 of this episode coming... at some point, hopefully.
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hamliet · 4 years
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I can’t believe you’re reading 2ha too now! I started following u way back when you were posting tg and snk meta and it’s so weird in an amazing way how you started posting mdzs meta at the same time I started reading it! I’d like to ask you for your thoughts on 2ha so far? (Maybe on Nangong Si and Ye Wangxi’s relationship?) Thank you :)
Ahhhh hi Anon!!! Thank you for sticking with me through all my fandom phases! And hooray, my first 2ha ask!! My general thoughts on the story are that it is a highly enjoyable story with fantastic, compelling characters and genuine emotional beats, though it also was thematically contradictory. That said, I really enjoyed it, and I’m eagerly looking forward to the live action even if it’s going to be heavily censored! I love it and want to make more content for it.
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But onto the meat of your ask: Ye Wangxi and Nangong Si, the ship that tears our hearts out. *art is from the audio drama* So 2ha's cultivation world is, like the worlds in MXTX’s novels, utterly hypocritical, corrupt, and filled with people desperate for a justice that does not exist; it's also much more cynical than MXTX's novels in its view of humanity. Nangong Si's and Ye Wangxi's arcs are wrapped up in this view of the world, in concepts such as corruption and justice and the like, so I'm going to open by talking a bit about this before delving into their arcs, and keep in mind I will have discuss spoilers from the manual translation.  
I don't think there's a better summary of what 2ha thinks about justice than what Xue Zhengyong says in this scene when a horribly abused child is on trial for terrible things the child, now grown, went on to do: 
Fate...
Some people were born rich. 
It's not fair.
When fate had poured injustice on those at the bottom, a mere price adjustment order could take the lives of the loved ones around them.
Where is justice?
They were all living people. How could they not hate him? How could they feel relieved?
Even if this child had missed it, even if he was not his blood kin, even if his fate played with him … Thinking of this, his heart still ached.
...
Xue raised his face and watched the clouds drift by."Okay, now that his sin has been repaid, he should at least repay the debt he owes this world." 
The wind was blowing .Xue Zheng Yong suddenly choked with sobs.
"But this world owes him … Did someone give it back to him... Has anyone returned it to him … " 
What about the crimes done to this person to make them that way? Does punishing this person bring any justice? How do we live in a world that is--perhaps irretrievably--broken? Every character explores this idea, and Ye Wangxi and Nangong Si are no exception. 
Nangong Si and Ye Wangxi are both obvious foils: they're children used by their parents, tools more than people. They also both--but especially Nangong Si--foil Shi Mei and Mo Ran in this, in terms of something horrible happening to their mother, something that scarred them for the rest of their lives. For example, Nangong Si's last words to his mother were: 
"I don't understand, I don't want to understand, I …I …” Nangong Si raised his tearful eyes and cried out to his mother, who was outside the forbidden spell, "I hate you! I don't have a mother like you! "
Mo Ran’s mother died and he had to drag her rotting corpse for two weeks to get to a place where he could bury her; Shi Mei’s mother was brutally eaten alive for her power. From these incidents, all three boys learn that the world is cruel in a distinct flavor that will influence everything they do from then on: Mo Ran learns no one will help him even if he begs for it, leading to him being both extremely clingy and extremely mistrustful; Nangong Si learns fate can be cruel and that he, too, can be cruel; Shi Mei learns that he can’t protect everyone and that his heritage puts him and his loved ones, all his people really, in huge danger--and that people will do evil things for power. Guess what he ends up doing. 
Ye Wangxi is also a Mo Ran foil: adopting a false persona and different role to please the people who took them in and were kind to them. Mo Ran pretends to be Xue Zhengyong and Madame Wang's nephew, when he really isn't; Ye Wangxi pretends to be a man to please the father who adopted her. That father is gray; I mean, technically he's morally repulsive, but he did genuinely care for Ye Wangxi. However, Ye Wangxi's willingness to sacrifice her life is not entirely a positive thing: clearly, Nangong Si will do whatever he has to in order to protect her, even marry Song Qiutong; his sacrifice there, likewise, leads to unhappiness for them both. 
Ye Wangxi and Song Qiutong are definitively foiled, and I'm going to sound as if I'm saying Ye Wangxi=good and Song Qiutong=bad, when, while that may be how the novel frames it, is certainly not what the novel actually says (it's an objective contradiction) nor is it what I interpreted. But they are distinct foils, which is why they are the two characters romantically linked to Nangong Si, representing to him the two paths he could choose to go down. Ye Wangxi will sacrifice herself to protect others, as seen in the sacrifice of her love for Nangong Si and her sacrifice of her identity and willingness to sacrifice her life.  
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In contrast, Song Qiutong will throw others under the bus to save herself. For example, when she is accused of cheating on Nangong Si, she does not trust people to defend her and falsely accuses Ye Wangxi of rape--even though Ye Wangxi had previously risked her safety to save Song Qiutong from an auction. Now, I've an issue with how the novel frames Song Qiutong for this: I don't understand why Song Qiutong is condemned when (as far as we and Mo Ran himself know at the time) Mo Ran is himself a rapist and when she was entrapped into the situation (i.e. if many characters hadn't been put in certain situations, they wouldn't have done terrible things), especially given her past (constantly living under the threat of being killed or raped--let's be honest, if she was deemed at fault, do you really think they'd just let a Butterfly Bone Beauty go?) and given story otherwise stating that people shouldn't be faulted for wanting to live. Who has repaid her for the wrongs done for her? 
I digress. Still, the tl;dr is that Song Qiutong's way of surviving involves hurting others. Song Qiutong also directly foils Nangong Si. Nangong Si starts out as... well, also as a very self-centered person who didn’t care that Song Qiutong was about to meet a fate worse than death in the light of the inconvenience Ye Wangxi saving her caused him. Additionally, he takes his frustrations out on those around him:
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However, even after his father is revealed to be like, the literal worst, Nangong Si cannot condemn his father. He could easily abandon him: in fact, in this cruel world, it might be perceived as more righteous for him to do so, but he doesn't. He gives his father a chance, and when they need a sacrifice and the most logical one is his mentally de-aged father: Nangong Si faces a choice: does he want to be like Song Qiutong? Or does he want to be like Ye Wangxi? He chooses to be like Ye Wangxi. This is not, however, a solely beautiful choice, because remember 2ha's world sucks and its suckery infects everything. The world itself is wrong, and so righteousness--true righteousness--is utterly impossible. Nangong Si sacrifices his life to save them all, but that leaves Ye Wangxi alone and many characters (and readers) grieving. It also could be read as highlighting, for Mo Ran at least, where he has yet to go: a few chapters earlier he almost sacrificed his reputation to warn everyone, but panicked and did not in the end. Mo Ran, of course, is related to Nangong Si by blood and could have sacrificed himself (I'm not saying he should have; the circumstances suck), so I suppose you could view it as Mo Ran still slowly developing (and his callous treatment of Rong Jiu and then entrapment of Song Qiutong as him slowly learning, but if so I wish it had been called out as a "well, I handled that hypocritically" moment later on). Or maybe that's reaching on my part. *shrugs* Ye Wangxi is a moral character, perhaps the most righteous in the story. She is the only one who stands by Mo Ran when he's put on trial to be tortured, declaring confidently:
Ye Wangxi fed him some warm water.
Mo Ran said in a low voice, "Why …."
"You helped A-Si." Ye Wangxi did not raise her head. "You helped me too."
"... On Mount Flood Dragon, if I was the one to die, Nangong will …" Ye Wangxi's hand paused slightly. She was trembling, but she still said in the end, "Everyone wants to live. I won't blame you just because you want to live."
"..."
"Drink it." She said, .”..you've been helping me and A-Si by risking our lives. Now, even if no one is willing to help you, I will still help you." Her expression was still dull, but it was firm. “I'm here." As she said 'here', she was indeed standing by the side of Mo Ran.
It's fitting, then, that Ye Wangxi's ending contrasts her with Shi Mei. She rescues refugees before the final battle and then travels the world with Nangong Si's wolf, because she will never forget the one she loves, and to presumably act justly and do righteousness, sow kindness into a world, rescue people despite how rescuing Song Qiutong actually endangered both her and Nangong Si. 
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Shi Mei wanted to change the world, quite literally rewriting time, but only made it worse in the end. Ye Wangxi's way of change might be slower, might be less fantastical, but it's not going to hurt people in the meantime. (Side note: I wish the novel would have been more optimistic and come up with some kind of justice for the Butterfly Bone Beauty people, but it really doesn't as far as I understood (this may be wrong; the MTL of the last twenty or so chapters are confusing!))
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