It has come to my attention that SOME OF YOU who read my last Byler post remain UNCONVINCED. So I'm gonna tack onto it this:
I'm older than fucking God and air, and I've been out and proud since 2007. Yes, I know what homophobia is, and yes, I know what queerbaiting is. I know about Supernatural and Teen Wolf and Sherlock and blahdyblahdyblah. No new ground is being covered here. I thought I made that clear in the original post, but, clearly, I did not.
I am aware of queerbaiting and homophobia, and I'm still wholeheartedly certain in Byler being canon anyway.
Okay, so there are three types of relationship I want to discuss when it comes to queerbaiting. They're all, like, "queer relationships that could have happened, but didn't".
First off, queer-coding. This isn't really a thing so much anymore, but it still crops up every once in a while. I'd argue it probably happens most with male-male relationships in family shows these days. First example that comes to mind is Mr. Smiley and Mr. Frowny from Steven Universe. You can't make a relationship canon because some shitty overhead bastard overhead said no, so you get as close as you can without compromising the show. Can't make someone gay? Well, now their comedy routine is a blatant allegory for a romantic relationship. Boom-shaka-laka. This is something I don't see being a problem with regards to Stranger Things, but I want it to be there as contrast, a demonstration of one of many things queerbaiting is not. However, one could argue that, thus far, Will Byers is, canonically, queer-coded. It's pretty fucking heavily implied in the show, and the creators have confirmed it, and you're gonna be able to see it if you're not FUCKING BLIND, but word of god is not technically canon which means that interviews don't technically make something canon, blahdyblahdyblahdyblah, technicalities, Robin has been explicitly stated in the text to be queer while Will has, thus far, not, outside of good ol' Show-Don't-Tell. Of course, anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell that that's going to change by the end of Season 5, but, hey, for what it's worth, I'm throwing this out there.
Alrighty, Thingamajingama Number Two: "Oops, I accidentally made the greatest love story known to man." AKA, a genuine, honest-to-goodness mistake. Unfortunately, we do live in a heteronormative society. Sometimes people who don't think about being gay much write a friendship that's incredibly compelling and don't even consider the possibility that it could have been read as romantic. Something something Top Gun something. This is, again, not queerbaiting. This is Steddie, this is Ronance, this is Elmax, this is your favorite flavor of non-canon ship this week, this is not Byler. The creators know DAMN well what they're doing. They've talked about it. We know this. Nothing new here.
Which brings us to the topic of discussion here. Actual queerbaiting. This usually starts out as an "accidental greatest love story", and then reacts to fan response. And when I say "reacts", I mean like a goddamn chemical reaction. Like bleach and ammonia, bitch. It's noxious and it's gonna kick your fucking ass without mercy. This is when a creator is like, "Hey, let's get our queer audience invested, but we're not actually going to give them what they want because our straight audience isn't here for that/we personally think it's gross/we don't give enough of a shit to want to research a goddamn thing to write a real gay character," blah blah blah whatever excuse they want to come up with this time.
And when you think "queerbaiting", I want you to think "bullying". Because that's what it is. It's lucrative bullying, like beating us up and taking our lunch money, but it's bullying all the same. And it's a real goddamn thing, even if people misuse the word a lot, often when they mean one of the two above, sometimes when they mean "bury your gays", which is another homophobic thing entirely that I'm not going to get into here. Queerbaiting is the thing we're focused on, and it's real, and it's bullying. And here's the reason I want you to think of it as bullying:
They
Think
It's
Funny.
They are actively making fun of us.
That's why Dean had the "Cas, get out of my ass," line in Supernatural. It's why the "Do you like boys?" line happened in Teen Wolf. It's why "Lie with me, Watson," happened in the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. Because "It's just a joke, mate." "It was just a prank, bro." "You didn't really think it would happen, did you?" "You should see your face."
So here's probably the biggest reason I don't think it's specifically queerbaiting in this specific instance of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler.
Stranger Things has never, not once, made a gay joke. Ever.
Every single time queerness comes up, it's dead serious.
Lonnie calls Will a fag, and the show is not at all reluctant to show what a goddamn horrible person he is. And when Hopper latches onto that, it's not as "Hahah, is he gay, though?" It's because he's trying to determine a potential motive for Will's disappearance, and even if someone had interpreted it as a joke, Joyce immediately has a line that functions as snapping her fingers in front of the audience's face and yelling "FOCUS" when she says "He's MISSING." Basically outright saying "This isn't funny!"
Troy calls him a fairy, along with targeting Lucas and Dustin for their skin color and disability respectively, and Mike gets damn near murderous. Troy is portrayed as a goddamn monster and the show portrays it as justice when El makes him piss his pants and later breaks his arm.
Steve calls Jonathan "queer" as a slur and gets the shit beat out of him for it.
Billy's father is revealed to be homophobic and abusive in the same breath.
Mike says "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" and we're shown how devastated Will is and Mike immediately follows him to beg for forgiveness.
There is a joke in Robin's coming-out scene, but it's not at Robin's expense. It's at Steve's. Specifically for being heteronormative.
Jonathan has multiple scenes where he's trying so hard to tell Will that he's always going to love him as he is, whether he's gay or not, without pressuring him to come out before he's ready.
Even when there's a little bit of ribbing at Robin's expense, it's always because she's an awkward nerd who's nervous around pretty girls, just the same as Lucas and Dustin are teased when they both first develop crushes on Max, and even then, even then, it always comes as a package deal where they make fun of Steve's girl problems at the same time.
Stranger Things is an emphatically pro-gay show. It may not be the core point of the show the way it is in, say, Our Flag Means Death, but there is nothing less than respect for its queer characters. Its queer characters are always taken completely seriously. No one is making fun of us. They never have. That's why I have serious doubts that this is queerbaiting. It would come completely out of left field for the bullying to start in Stranger Things' final season.
So it's not at all likely to be queerbaiting because queerness is taken completely seriously. The creators have talked about Will's queerness, at least, so it's not an accident. And queer-coding would be silly to expect from this show when it's already on its final season. Like, what is Netflix gonna do? Cancel it? Not to mention all the explicit queerness that's in there already. And no one's gonna "What about the children?" a show that's had sex scenes in it since the first season.
There's no fakeout here. It's gonna happen. Breathe.
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you ripped off your entire "theory" about LO being made for kids from Pyrrhic Victoria's latest video lol. Word for word, that's pretty hypocritical but then I guess that's to be expected from the person who still financially supports Webtoon and LO even though you've based your entire image off how much you supposedly hate LO
if I "ripped off" P&V then this is news to me because I've only watched each one of their videos once (they're long and they cover a SHITLOAD of topics, bruh) and it's been ages, BUT-
This honestly makes for a great segue to talk about opinion sharing in the fandom in general because ima be honest with you, there's like... only so much you can talk about in the LO crit community. Like as much as we make fun of the stans for all sharing one echo chamber of opinions, the ULO community isn't that much different in the sense of like, having the same takes and opinions about the topic we've chosen to unite on and being hyper passionate about it to the point of having the same conversations at least ONCE per week. Like it's just a webcomic about pink and blue people, a lot of takes are pretty much the exact same and that's not a BAD thing but ... both P&V and I have been in the ULO stratosphere for AGES now so ?? There's only SO MUCH to cover about LO before it all starts blurring together lmao I can't "own" an opinion, and they undoubtedly know that they can't "own" any one specific opinion either, especially within a fandom like this. C'mon now.
"LO is made for babies" or "LO is marketed to children" is also one of the way more common takes, that's like saying I'm ripping off panel redraw accounts for doing my own panel redraws. LO's been compared to other things that are commonly marketed to children like MCU films, Disney movies/shows, etc. time and time again because that's been SUPER common knowledge for YEARS now prior to any of us joining the community, regardless of "who joined first", it's literally WT's entire business model and it's pretty plainly obvious. The specific comparison I made was just one that came to me during a ramble on stream the other night and I wanted to put it to paper because that's what I do here. If that specific comparison has been made in the past already in a 3 hour video that I completely forgot/didn't realize, then great! I'm not the only one who came to this conclusion! Thanks for the validation!
None of this is with shade at P&V or even you, btw, I think it's honorable you want to stand up for them if you enjoy their stuff and I can't harp on you for that but like... this ain't it? Y'all gotta understand this community is still HELLA small as far as fandom culture goes, we all know everybody, have helped build these parts of the community together from cardboard and glue whether or not we still directly affiliate with each other, and share many of the same takes and schools of thought that stem back YEARS before even WE were in the community ourselves so it's kinda silly to try and point fingers at any one person and say "abc is ripping off xyz!" esp when the "ripping off" is just like, having the same opinion about something? A lot of both our takes also intersect with takes from other antiLO accounts and channels that pre-existed theirs and my own. It's a fandom, after all, no single person can lay claim to any specific opinion we're all coming from many of the same schools of thought with foundations that pre-exist us, it's just different people delivering their own unique spins on takes that have been heard many times before. Some of us do re-imaginings, some of us do panel edits, some of us just crack great jokes about it. We're not all pals with each other, we're not even all from the same platforms or community bubbles, but I think we're all pretty familiar with each other's content and what each one of us is about for the most part.
I know you're likely not gonna take "trust me" as a promise that I'm not ripping anyone off, but like... trust me, I'm not sitting here sifting through P&V's 15+ hour video backlog and going "huehuehue I'm gonna steal this!" because I would gain nothing from doing that and their content is ultimately just part of a bigger genre of topics and opinions that are constantly being re-assessed and re-discussed as the comic goes on, they were just the first ones to make an ongoing Youtube series about it (which is commendable in and of itself with how much content they've made around it, most other Youtubers just review it once in 20-90 minutes and call it a day).
P&V's contributions to these discussions have their own personal unique flair to them but the opinions themselves aren't all brand new revelations. Back when I still watched their videos, their alternate scenarios as to how something could be written were pretty neat because it came with their own unique experiences and viewpoints as webcomic creators which isn't something you'll find on every other account. But "LO is marketed to children and here's why" isn't exactly one of those takes because it's one we've all talked about in the community LONG before those videos even existed. And it's been talked about since before any of us were in the community, period. So... yeah, that's pretty much all I have to say on that lmao it's not that complicated, there's no "conspiracy" going on here, it's a Tumblr post about something that's already been talked about in the past by many others, my guy.
As a closing note, accusing me of being hypocritical on the basis of something you don't even have facts on like "financially supporting Webtoons and LO" is such a silly hill to die on, c'mon pal. You want me to stand here and tell you my side of it as if you're even gonna believe me? Because even if I do say "actually, I no longer even have the Webtoons app on my phone and I can't even remember the last time I paid for coins on the app because all the series I usually FP nowadays are on hiatus and I stopped FP'ing LO back at the start of S3" are you really gonna believe me? Did you even bother to read through the majority of this post? You want receipts or something? What do you want from me? I got nothing to hide, but I'm not gonna sit here and try to explain myself to someone hiding behind an anon filter who's already decided I'm a hack so idk what you want 🤣 Even if I did still FP the series, what then? There are people in this community who do still FP to keep up on content so they can keep talking about it, why is that a crime all of a sudden? Since when did this become some kind of weird "prove you're loyal" indoctrination? Or are you just mad my takes are basic?
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blorbo death count
gray: alive ✔️ (idk i never finished fairy tail but that's what i see in google kinda)
miyuki: alive ✔️ (saved by sports anime)
kurose: alive ✔️ (off living his best life with shirotani, saved by yaoi)
katsuki: (presumably) dead ❌ (no he's not i refuse to believe it he's NOT DEAD UNTIL I SEE A FUNERAL OR SOME SHIT IDC)
tony: dead ❌ (rip tony ur death left me devastated fr)
thorin: dead ❌ (his death was pretty gay so ill allow it)
sherlock: alive ✔️ (but he died once, in a way, so) ❌
draco: alive ✔️ (idk he there somewhere i guess)
wolfgang + soohyuk: alive ✔️ (but also i havent read s3 so idk) (but like, definitely saved by yaoi)
gojo: ALIVE ✔️ (he is ALIVE) (if this man fucking dares to die i swear)
eren: dead ❌ (rip erencio) (but also u died to me as soon as the final season started so assfjhajfhas) (s1 15 eren i miss u)
loki: dead ❌ (the sun never fucking shone on us u fucking liar)
anakin: dead ❌ (well...kinda) (he a ghost now so he kinda alive)
knives: dead ❌ (havent read trimax yet but like...he dead 😔) (i think)
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like shattered glass.
a drabble: immediately following the events of the fall 2023 arena
word count: 548 words
// depicts strong negative emotions.
The veil of the illusion falls at last; no oceans, no forests, no deserts. It is between one blink and the next that the monastery resumes your vision, and it is between one breath and the next that you promptly leave the venue.
It’s late out now—normally, you would’ve basked in that, but the darkness feels different right now. Where normally, it would be an open canvas—nothing certain and everything free to be dreamt within—now, it feels oppressive: a smothering isolation akin to the tightness in your chest; the moon crawling upwards nothing more than a mockery of what freedom truly is. Your eyes stay on the ground as you walk to your quarters; maybe people are watching, but you can’t bring yourself to care.
You shut the door behind you—maybe too forcefully, but only just. It is only when you crash against the back of it, falling to the floor like shattered glass that finally, you let yourself feel something: and everything comes crashing in. (Notably, that tightness in your chest; the force of your own heartbeat; the loudness of your thoughts.)
It’s almost impressive that you held yourself together for that last match. Haha.
…That wasn’t funny. (Normally, though, it would be.) You can’t muster up any laughter though, most of it just dying in your lungs. Instead, your heart just beats, pounding; it’s almost like your head could explode from the force of all that blood. Your hands find a place atop your head, but no matter how forcefully you hold it together, in truth: you are not holding it together. Your memories still command you—isolation against your own will.
It wouldn’t be so bad if you could call those actions your own—you couldn’t even begin to count all the times you’ve acted or spoken or smiled with nothing more than the intention to offend, belittle: cement your control. You know what to expect from people, and you know what will come of your… habits. But you had not killed them on purpose—you had lifted the axe, and you had aimed to kill, but those actions stopped being yours the moment it hit their body. Their double was the one who should’ve been hit; they themself didn’t deserve to die. (Or perhaps maybe they did, but you could entertain that thought another time.)
Regardless: they cannot hold that against you. It wasn’t fair to what truly happened. (But they did; you feel it miserably.) It clogs up your insides.
An inhale inwards, slow and measured—following: an exhale out. Your heart is still killing you, what with its incessant beating—a motion so violent you could feel it moving against your ribcage; but your breathing evens: that overwhelming feeling of suffocation falls away, like vines retracting from a corpse.
(Like those vines, however, it does not truly go away; it may still very well kill you.) Not that you will let it.
It’s late out now—but then again, you never sleep easily anyway. It would be infinitely easier to just sit here in silence, let the emotions wash away until you become yourself again. Perhaps then you could speak like yourself again too: Yes, I did that. Are you going to start crying over it? (A normal person might’ve considered an apology, but you aren’t weak like them.)
An inhale inwards; an exhale out. The moon continues to rise.
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