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sunnykeysmash · 11 months

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Ok so, the new trailers got me curious, especially here with the whole... trap thing.

Let's just go on a little chill journey about it together, no strings attached.

So... something I do casually to pass the time while deep in sunny fixation is keyword searching in episode transcripts, to see if there's fun connections I can do. So naturally, I look up "trap", to see where else it comes up outside of Gets Romantic and Flowers for Charlie (the first two episodes that come to my mind when talking about traps).

What I found was an interesting connection between three specific episodes:

Mac is a serial killer

Dennis looks like a registered sex offender

Flowers for Charlie

And I wanna go through it. Kind of in random order because I don't know how to structure this (lmao).

Now, these episodes obviously have come out in seasons throughout the years, with the earliest two on s3, and I'm gonna be talking about things I think might happen in relation to these episodes. Parallels, metatext, about things that haven't aired yet. So I may be wrong. Let's get that out of the way. Usual disclaimer, get out now if you don't like rambling, and I'm not responsible for building anyone's expectations, that is on you. This is how I have my own fun. Let's move on.

But talking about these episodes in such a way requires me to acknowledge macdennis as something that's been not only intended, but planted, am I gonna be arguing that this was all intentional the whole time? ...No. ...Yes? Maybe. This pains me to say more than it pains you to read, believe me.

Now by planted I don't mean they ever really planned to have it happen necessarily. I'm talking about the trap aspect of it all. The will they, won't they. The question, the mystery of what's inside the crate. You get me.

I wanna start from the fact that there's fifteen severed heads in the fridge. Severing heads being a metaphor very prevalent in season 15 as we've seen, but especially...

And that's the scene.

Yes, I'm aware.

I'm done. I was in character before, but I'm me now, so you can tell me how good I was.

Oh, okay. Well, you just cut in front of 15 other actresses.

You're welcome. I took a gander at 'em and... ( sever head gesture )

Plus, I do feel like that's what the character would have done, and I've been in character all day. As a matter of fact, don't want to brag, but I've been in character all week.

Fifteen, like the seasons? It could be they were hoping to reach that number to break the record, just like Charlie is shown doing at the start of DLLARSO, attempting to break a record to see how long he can hold his breath for.

Dee: What is going on in here?

Mac: Just laying low and breaking world records. Don't even think about breathing, b¡tch.

Dennis: All right, so here's the deal. Got rid of that child molester. The sеxual predator guy? Yeah, he's gone. He's out of the situation, so my problems are solved. You had a thing too, right?

Dee: Mac's dad. I want your dad out of the bar.

So three things, breaking records, the second Dennis leaving (you know, Dennis Double Life thing), and I do think Luther might be dying this season, as well. It seems to line up to me... we know Mac is going to "collect his inheritance", which he wouldn't really have unless a parent died like Charlie's. He also walked out, so.

But that's impossible, that's season 3. I thought so too.

So I want to bring another example of severed head onto the table... Chardee Macdennis 2. Season 11.

They're asked to sculpt "clues" for the game, and what does each of them sculpt?

Mac: "Cupid's arrow". Which Charlie keeps calling a penis, and which looks strikingly similar to a RPG missile to me, I'll add.

Frank: A heart. Like the heart shaped lock?

Dennis: A woman's head in a freezer, which he says, and I quote, represents "the preservation of love forever and ever".

Keep in mind, there was no theme given for the sculptures, the whole goal was for the teammates to guess what the other was sculpting. Now why are they... love themed?

I just want to say right out of the gate, I don't know what everything means, I'm more so here to draw parallels that I've noticed. I think it's interesting that everyone can draw their own conclusions too.

So, to summarize all three episodes:

In Mac is a Serial Killer, the gang see Mac acting weird, so they start suspecting he's a serial killer.

(I do want to point out Carmen scratches Mac (during sex), which is one parallel with Dennis, but not my overall point.)

Frank and Charlie scour for clues in Mac's apartment, while Dennis tries to use Dee as bait to catch the serial killer. Frank gets a confession out of Mac's mom, and then the gang starts to hatch a scheme (which they call a trap) to "catch" Mac about this, and drive a confession out of him. The truth though, is that Mac is dating Carmen, and doesn't want the gang to find out.

In Sex Offender, Luther is finally out of jail and is visiting a bunch of people. Mac and Charlie see that Luther has a list with their name on it, and panic thinking he's been killing these people and is gonna kill them next. What is really happening though, is that he was actually making amends with the people listed (something that comes back in S16!), and had a surprise prepared for Mac, who "ratted him out". The B plot has Frank moving out because he thinks he can do better than Charlie, so he gets with Bonnie, his "bang maid". Both Charlie and Mac hatch a plan (again called a trap here), a romantic dinner, with very different goals. Charlie wants Frank back and to expose his mom as a cheater (in a situation that actually reminds of the s15 dinner, with the turd in the soup), Mac wants to pair his parents back together so they can raise "happy boys". In the end, Luther gets with Bonnie, which coincidentally does drive Frank back into Charlie's arms, but in the end Luther gets carried away by police. Additionally as we've discussed, there's a second Dennis in this episode, a fake, who is threatened into leaving at the end of the episode.

In Flowers for Charlie, scientists are running an experiment on Charlie who becomes their lab rat, while Dee Mac and Dennis are dealing with a rat problem in the bar, discussing ways to catch and kill it. Charlie starts thinking he's too good for his friends and notices that "they've been using him", Frank enlists the help of the Waitress by setting up a dinner between them, hoping Charlie's deep infatuation with her will pull him away from his new life and the corner he's turned and back to Frank, and when that doesn't work, Frank tells Dee Dennis and Mac that he wants to "drag him back down into the sewer where he belongs". Dee thinks she's stuck to the rat glue trap, but after the rat eats the cheese and scurries away unaffected, thanks to Frank's help she finds that by letting go of the trap, she becomes unstuck. In the end we find the experiment didn't make Charlie smarter, only more arrogant, and perhaps more fascinatingly some other things, like he believes to be a mathematical genius, and writes:

X = 9 + 9 = Box... that's where the cat is.

(9 + 9, like 18? Like the seasons we have confirmed, 18?)

And more.

And in the space of an hour, the subject has lost all interest in a woman with whom he had been in love for years, because of a perceived upidity relative to himself. Perhaps the most interesting were the series of side effects that he believed himself to be having. Uh, debilitating aches and pains. It was all in his mind.

According to this, the more arrogant someone is, the more he forgets about the people he loves, and the more he suffers various pains. Therefore, you need to knock someone down a peg to remind them of their feelings, and make them feel better.

In Mac is a Serial Killer, at the end, Mac is also accused of being two people.

Charlie: I'm sorry, Mac. You can't keep running from this thing. You gotta face this head on! (whispers) I'm gonna get you off this. Don't be afraid to show me your ugly side. All right. Put that away, Frank. You don't need a chain saw. You're talking to an innocent man. All right, Mac. I'm gonna ask you now 'cause I'm tired and hungry. I want to go home. I want to wash my hands of this whole stinking mess. Did you or did you not snap into an alternate and distinct personality... causing you to go on a serial killing rampage?

Mac: What? No.

Charlie: What? Yes, you did. You... All right, Mac. You're crazy, right? You're a crazy person. Sometimes you're two people. Let's see the other guy. Let him out.

Mac: Let who out?

Charlie: The serial killer, Mac! Let the serial killer out!

Mac: I'm not a serial killer!

Frank: Then why all the shady behavior?

So, what is the trap... so far, we've seen that you trap someone either to set them up with someone else (the romantic dinner in DLLARSO, but also the trap in Gets Romantic, and also when Dee sets them up in Break Up by using a lady with giant breasts as bait!), or to draw a confession out of them (like in MIASK, but also Catches a Leprechaun). Perhaps both, at the same time, as there may be multiple people scheming the same thing with different end goals, or different things with the same end goal. Either way, that's the conflict of the trap.

Brief intermission to talk about another episode where the trap comes up. Charlie's Home Alone.

Charlie empathizes with a rat, and saves him from a trap.

'Cause I know what it's like to be caught in a trap now, and it's not okay. I won't let you get caught in a trap, okay?

Takes him in his hand, and eats him (DLLARSO also has talk about Luther looking like he eats people, but I don't have a thought on that yet aside from basic cat eat mouse type stuff, also not everything is Something, but I digress!).

Later a real trap is introduced as part of the rituals, and Charlie steps on it and must free himself. The release lever is at the bottom. He frees himself, but once Brady has the ball, he has to step right into the trap again.

This stepping in and out, again it reminds me of Dennis in Gets Romantic, but since it was a season 13 episode, it may also be Glenn about the show.

But here's something I think, just to spice it up, I think the trap may also be, more in general, a relationship. Right? Dennis has been in one (with Maureen), didn't like it, yada yada. Now Mac talking about banging, that's one thing. Mac getting in a relationship? Suddenly he's ruining everything, getting locked in, that's different. And the scene between him and Dennis in Flowers for Charlie, implies to me that we have two rats and one bait, that the trap involves two people. Like a relationship. Now am I married to this idea, pun not intended? Not really, but it's possible.

Either way, the trap is something that catches rats. Thanks to Flowers for Charlie, both Mac and Dennis can be rats, due to said dancing scene...

Dennis: He scurried away.

Mac: All right, well, when he comes back, I'm gonna smash him up good. Dennis: No, no, Mac, come on. We're smarter than that. That's just gonna spread rat blood and disease all over the place. It's not about brute force. It's about seduction. See, I'm gonna place some enticing tunes for the little guy. And then I'm gonna bait this glue trap with some Brie cheese.

Frank: Because drawing a confession out of someone... is like doing a beautiful dance... a beautiful dance with a chain saw.

When Charlie is framed as the rat in Flowers for Charlie at the beginning, he's dead set on getting the cheese he can't have, and has no interest in the one under the green light. Which reflects the chase. Like cat and mouse.

This experiment, that's being talked about as groundbreaking and that will revolutionize the field, is all about making the subject feel smart due to the constant encouragement, but the subject really isn't.

Mac is not the serial killer. He's not smart enough. He's a dumb person. And dumb people are not capable of serial killing.

In Chokes, it's said that Dennis will see through the ruse, because he's smart, but the truth is that he didn't, because he isn't. It's Mac that heightens his confidence, and it always has been.

And in the sideplot of Flowers for Charlie, Dee Dennis and Mac end up watching "cat and mouse" cartoons to understand how to solve this rat problem. But... a cat was never introduced in the episode prior to this?

The mouse always wins. There's... there's, like, no winning with mices. Cat keeps getting hurt. He gets hurt. Well, it's dangerous, yeah. What the hell are you guys doing? We're trying to watch cat and mouse cartoons to find out how kitty cats deal with their rat issues.

But historically, the cat has always been Dennis... the cat in the wall (through framing and dialogue), and then ongoing with like the painting in s15 and the dead cat in the room and so on. This cat may get out of the wall, or he may die in there. That duality belongs to Dennis. But how can he both be a cat and a mouse? No, I don't have an answer, but perhaps it's up to confidence. If you bring it down low enough for both Dennis and Mac, they're finally both little mouses, and you can catch them in your trap. Not that the trap ever works? In all episodes where it comes up, it either fails (Flowers for Charlie), is painful (Charlie's Home Alone), complicates things (Gets Romantic), or a combination of those (Serial Killer and Catches a Leprechaun).

It's also about method.

How do we lower this guy's confidence, how do we reach rock bottom.

In Flowers for Charlie, Mac's solution is to bash the rat.

In Mac is a Serial Killer, they want to draw a confession out of Mac by torture when they catch him. Using a chainsaw even.

And in Dennis Looks Like a Registered Sex Offender, Dennis takes a good beating because he's mistaken for an awful man that looks like him, as per Dee's plan.

And this in Mac is a Serial Killer:

Dennis: This is the fun part, Dee. This is the part that we've been working up to. This is what all the work has been for. We're gonna follow our victim. And then we're gonna jump her. And then I'm gonna strangle her and you're gonna chop her into pieces.

Dee: Okay, but what are we really gonna do?

Dennis: Huh?

Dee: We're not really gonna kill her. What are we gonna do?

Dennis: Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. That's a bummer. Yeah, you're right.

Dee: Let's just follow her for a little. We'll throw a good scare into her. Figure out what to do later.

Plus, in Charlie Catches a Leprechaun, which is another episode in which a man gets captured with the goal of driving a confession out of him...

Mac: Nasty little son of a b¡tch, isn't he?

Charlie: There's, like, a real bite to him.

Mac: You know what I think we should do? We just rough him up a little bit. You know, just get the truth out of him, just a little bit.

Charlie: It's a great idea.

Mac: We don't want to bruise him up, I just wish we had, like, a hose or something. You know, we could blast the truth out of him. Right?

Charlie: That'd be good...

Setting aside the episode insisting a lot about ancient authentic irish traditions and other parallels I don't have time to get into, this ALL reminds me of course of the plan from the castle about the irish doctor in S15, you know, pour scalding liquid from the murder hole (a predecessor to the glory hole!) and char him.

Dennis: Yeah, so you'll lure him under the hole, where I will, uh, douse him with boiling oil or hot tar or really any scalding substance.

Frank: Wait, you're gonna char the guy? Gonna char him up?

Dennis: Yeah. I'm not gonna kill him or anything, but it's got to be hot enough to be annoying as shit, right? You know what I mean?

Frank: Yeah. Burn him.

Dennis: Uh, he's gonna get burned. But, I mean, Charlie's got to see him lose his cool, so we can expose him as the child-abandoning monster that he really is.

In s15 later, Dennis talks about that incident as "taking care of him". We all giggled at the gay implication of that, but the thing is, Mac is a Serial Killer and Dennis Looks Like a Registered Sex Offender both play with that duality of meaning, as well.

Dee: Could you come take care of me?

Charlie: I'll allow it.

Mac: Uh, yeah. Yeah, I can take care of you.

Dennis: What were you planning on doing to Sandy?

Mac: What do you think, dude?

Dennis: Well, according to this phone transcript, Mac... you were going to "take care of her"?

Mac: Yeah. Take care of her.

Mac: He told me these are people from his past, and he's got to take care of them. And once he takes care of them, he's gonna take care of me.

And it really is like that sick extended metaphor where on one side we have Mac and Dennis, on the other we have death. Same as Dennis' Double Life. You know, "give me dong or give me death". That you can either love someone, or kill them. It reflect the concept of the trap, I think.

But speaking of which...

Frank: Stay away from my bang maid.

Charlie: Damn it, Frank! This isn't about them... Charlie... or Mac or anyone else... this is about you and me, bro. This is about dudes living together, hanging out, sharing their bed and their life...

Mac: No. That's not what this is about! This is about people meeting back up after many years and sparks flying... and families getting back together and raising little boys so they can be happy again!

Much like Clip Show, that same duality. On one side living with Mac (dudes living together, plus Charlie and Frank are often a parallel for Mac and Dennis), on the other, raising Brian Jr (families getting together and raising little boys).

Charlie: Shut up, Frank. You don't know what she wants any more than she knows what you want. You know who knows what you want? I do. I've always known what you want. And I can give you want you want. Just let me give you what you want.

I don't like jumping into specific event predictions because I always get them wrong, and I don't find any fun in that. And while the trap and rats meta is real, I may be completely off with it here. I just like drawing connections.

But speaking of traps and ruses, here's another bit of dialogue that comes to me, in times of need.

Charlie: I see you all fell for my ruse.

Dee: What ruse? You asking us to go on a hike with your dad, and us saying "yes"?

Charlie: Oldest trick in the book.

Dennis: Asking someone to do something?

Charlie: Exactly.

Dee: And then, them doing it?

Charlie: Precisely, yes.

I think traps usually are something you hatch to uncover a ruse.

That's why in all of these examples, the goal of capturing someone is to draw a confession out of them. But they don't work that way, because what the capturer and the captured hold as truth doesn't align. Mac is a serial killer, they expect him to confess to serial killing, but he was just dating Carmen. Catches a leprechaun, they expect him to admit that he is, but he really isn't. Even in Worst Bar in Philly, another ep where they kidnap a guy, they are trying to extort a fake review from the journalist.

So if the trap succeeds, it'll have a different result than intended by who hatched it, and uncover a truth that wasn't the expected one. Just based on statistics, I guess...

If the intended goal is really to hatch a plan to humiliate Dennis, char him or whatever, then what it may actually do is break his cold, calculated shell. But I don't know...

Frank, I am thinking on the physical level, the metaphysical level, the pataphysical level.

So we've all talked about meta and that's fun, but let's talk pataphysical too since Flowers for Charlie mentions it.

That's difficult, as there are over one hundred definitions of pataphysics according to wikipedia.

A few are:

"Pataphysics will examine the laws governing exceptions, and will explain the universe supplementary to this one"

"Pataphysics is patient; 'Pataphysics is benign; 'Pataphysics envies nothing, is never distracted, never puffed up, it has neither aspirations nor seeks not its own, it is even-tempered, and thinks not evil; it mocks not iniquity: It is enraptured with scientific truth; it supports everything, believes everything, has faith in everything, and upholds everything that is."

"Pataphysics "the science of the particular" does not, therefore, study the rules governing the general recurrence of a periodic incident (the expected case) so much as study the games governing the special occurrence of a sporadic accident (the excepted case). Jarry performs humorously on behalf of literature what Nietzsche performs seriously on behalf of philosophy. Both thinkers in effect attempt to dream up a "gay science" whose joie de vivre thrives wherever the tyranny of truth has increased our esteem for the lie and wherever the tyranny of reason has increased our esteem for the mad."

"Pataphysics is science, albeit one with an aesthetic sensibility; it regards “humor” and “the serious” with the same imperturbable gaze. "

"Pataphysics is simply an awareness that everything, including our very selves - is what we pretend it to be."

In other words, truth is not what's actually real, what we do or our past, truth is what we believe it is. Much like identity.

One more.

"You have seen that far from regretting the past I would simply suggest that we improve it…’Pataphysics will always be plunging ahead, precisely because it is static in time, and because time, itself, is retrograde by definition."

So if one is dissatisfied with their past, they can simply change it... by going there. This concept is played around plenty in Clip Show, but I want to talk about something else. I want to talk about Dee Day.

That is the episode where we take off Dennis' make up, but there's something else too.

This is where Dee talks about wanting to do a "retrospective" of her characters.

And the plan to make the ordinance pass, includes the gang stealing the councilwoman keys and setting her clocks back so she would miss the vote.

And look, we do have one flashback promised to us, in the bowling episode if I recall correctly.

"But is there any other canonical way of viewing the future (whether one calls oneself serious, in the profane or pataphysical sense of the word), than as a bouquet of imaginary Solutions – that is, potentialities?"

I forget if I've talked about potential in sunny. The seeds, the puppies, the eggs... always about the potential of life. I think it's fascinating. Like there is an infinite branch of ways in which macdennis could happen, right? And that's the potential. And by bringing it into the text, you're effectively killing it.

But are you, really?

The first time round is a bitter pill

But the second chance is better still

And then we find new seeds to sow

To grow our love we didn't know

There's always new seeds to plant...

But I'm not done with the pataphysical. Oh no, there's more.

There's also the fact that Flowers for Charlie talks about the structure and the foundation. When asked where the foundation is, they respond "on top", but Frank corrects them, on the bottom.

I have a feeling both answers are correct, just like both of Dennis' lives are true, and here's why.

Concepts that embody pataphysical include:

Antimony: An antinomy is the mutually incompatible. It represents the duality of things, the echo or symmetry, the good and the evil at the same time.

Clinamen: A clinamen is the unpredictable swerve of atoms that poet Christian Bök calls "... the smallest possible aberration that can make the greatest possible difference". An example is Jarry's merdre, a swerve of French: merde ("shit").

Syzygy: The syzygy originally comes from astronomy and denotes the alignment of three celestial bodies in a straight line. In a pataphysical context it is the pun. It usually describes a conjunction of things, something unexpected and surprising. Serendipity is a simple chance encounter but the syzygy has a more scientific purpose.

Absolute: The absolute is the idea of a transcended reality.

Anomaly: An anomaly represents the exception. Jarry said that, "Pataphysics will examine the laws governing exceptions, and will explain the universe supplementary to this one." Bök calls it "... the repressed part of a rule which ensures that the rule does not work".

Pataphor: The pataphor is a term for an unusually extended metaphor based on Alfred Jarry's "science" of 'pataphysics'. Whereas a metaphor compares a real object or event to a seemingly unrelated subject to emphasize their similarities, the pataphor uses the newly created metaphorical similarity as a reality on which to base itself. In going beyond mere ornamentation of the original idea, the pataphor seeks to describe a new and separate world, in which an idea or aspect has taken on a life of its own.

Once again this rings true for Clip Show in general, as a concept, but I would maybe dare say this applies to macdennis regarding many associated concepts such as the trap or the crate. In particular, Macdennis as a concept has been morphing and evolving separate to the textual plots, due to heavy metaphor use.

In particular, they're always placed in the role of married couple, in multiple episodes. Break up, Suburbs, Gets Romantic, Mortgage Crisis. It doesn't just say "you are like a married couple", it shows them behaving as one. Therefore, if looked at under a pataphysical lense, that's what they are. That's the reality of it.

Of course, since this whole spiel is born from one word in a single episode from season 9, there's no telling how much it actually matters. It may be a happy coincidence. Does it really matter? (Not in pataphysics).

In a similar sense, we spoke Mac into coming out as audience, because we believed in it as our reality.

And another thing, since I'm riffing a lil bit at this point.

But since Dennis has been intentionally led to portray two separate and apparently opposing realities, the audience is equally divided on him, and as a result both realities keep appearing as true.

So in DLLARSO Mac is stealing Dennis' car and using it without him knowing. If we go with the whole "Dennis' car is his identity" which is very dear and near to me and I basically think of as true at least since Misses The Boat (and this is a s3 ep, which is why I'm saying IF), I'm wondering how this extends in season 16.

Well for starters, we see Mac behind the counter twice just in trailers. That has been, typically, Dennis' spot as the bartender. Very rarely does Mac cross behind, even less so on his own. Notably, it happens in Mac Fights Gay Marriage AND Dennis Gets Divorced (which btw, these two parter titles make it sound like they're the two that got divorced lmao, but um).

Another way in which we see him possibly take Dennis' place (or walk in his shoes! wear his skin, whatever you want to call it), is by the fact Dennis is teaching him the DENNIS system (an altered version I assume?), like passing the torch on to him (and Dee, who wants that place in the gang hierarchy as well...).

Finally, something that may not be a thing at all, but he meets Chase in S16, only Chase thinks he already met Mac. Because Dennis gave him Mac's name in Stranded. I'm expecting some name shenanigans of some kind. (perhaps Mac will use Dennis' name? I'm not banking on that, but how's he gonna explain? that is, unless someone else already did, in his pursue to make amends... well, who knows. you know what they say about assuming)

It's funny because Stranded is an episode all about how saying no brings you misfortune, while saying yes brings you luck. And money. 10.000$ of them specifically, both in Stranded and, casually, the original amount won by Mac with the scratcher.

The amount that... after all the bills, ends up being only 14$ dollars. (like the seasons?)

Stranded is also interesting on its own... Frank avoiding the main road because he doesn't want to pay the toll... Okay, that's enough. Getting off track.

So, final notes, since this is a more speculative and rambly post, and I'm under the impression the metaphors discussed (rats, traps, severed heads...) aren't complete (meaning they're gonna expand on these more in S16), I'm very much hoping everyone chimes in with their thoughts and speculations... perhaps other episodes that you think may fit this... let's throw away the oars and get into it, like, who cares if it ends up wrong, you know? I may come back to this too after the season airs to see what else there was...

#iasip #it's always sunny in philadelphia #s16 spoilers #always sunny #macdennis #macden #analysis #meta #RARE macdennis meta post from me... I've been burned before by being terribly wrong about something #and since then i dont do event predictions anymore. aside from ''i think macdennis is real. heres why.''#this post makes me sound like a flat earther #and i didnt even get into the whole power bottom = lowest in the structure but highest in power.#the ultimate pataphysical duality!!#and also.... flipping things upside down which is a vibe i got and cant articulate. mostly from that one ep where they flip the pyramid #and woop it's a scheme #how could the bottom be on top? you flip it #similarly sunny right now is ''flipped'' aka we are at the LOWEST OF LOW which for us means we're near peaking #but literally thats just conjecture. like bash me with a stick idk thats just what i believe #please add input so i dont look dum. something about rat eggs found in holes like jumper. anything really #i love connecting dots i recommend it as an activity to everyone #if rcg reads this they're gonna pay for my therapy finally. i count that as a win tbh. mental health day serve #ALSO IN STRANDED DENNIS SHOWS CHARLIE A HICKEY THAT HE SAYS HE GOT AFTER GETTING UNEXPECTEDLY CAUGHT IN A RAINSTORM #lil nuggets of gay dennis that i take whenever i can #the truck driver who has a wife and kids but is secretly gay is also kinda sus. what an ep to be threading in s16 #''lex what's threading'' i invent my own terms bc im crazy but thats when an ep themes connect w a future ep themes. i also call it echoing #if u even care #will mac pay the troll toll to get into the baby boy's hole? tune in next season to find out!#if ur wondering i think the ruse is gay marriage so i do hope he says yes. idk who ''he'' is. maybe theyre both planning to propose #i once read a fic with that plot. they were trying to one up one another with the proposal. i think that person should sue rcg #ok I'll shut up now. annoyin ass

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kyouka-supremacy · 2 years

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what are your opinions on ch14? its one of my fav chapters tbqh so im curious to know why u didnt like it initially and what changed

Thank you for this question! Writing down your thoughts is always fun eheh. Predictable negativity on bsd storytelling and Higuchi characterization under the cut, so please don't read if that's something possible to ruin your mood!!

So here's the thing. We need a bit of context first. Okay, you might know I'm not a big fan of bsd's poor female characters writing in general. My first contact with chapter 14 was when I was watching the bsd anime for the first time. Higuchi is introduced as this woman who is very cool!!! She lured the main character into a trap, pulled out these massive riffles and started shooting everywhere. It was nice. Then, she's badly mistreated by Akutagawa, and it's gross; Higuchi's relationship with Akutagawa is so fucked up. And then the following episode 11 (that is the corresponding of chapter 14) is all about it, about Higuchi's fucked up relationship with Akutagawa, but like... Romanticizing it? Saying it's good for this woman to stay at her work place where she's made miserable on daily basis?

What's most distasteful isn't the beating up itself from Akutagawa, although that is sure to leave a very bitter taste (after all, as a shonen-ish series, violence is nothing out of the norm); what's highly disturbing is the clear unbalance of power between Higuchi and Akutagawa, or how Higuchi is constantly depicted as being obsessed with Akutagawa while Akutagawa is openly violent with her. And the way he reprimands her! And the way she's clearly distraught at his words- not to mention the countless times it's shown how emotionally hurt she was by him. This kind of stuff is depressing. Because like!! What if we didn't romanticize men hitting their female partners!!!!! The bar is *that* low!!!!!!

And Higuchi is portrayed as being obsessed with Akutagawa. She was willing to die trying to save him, even being aware she alone couldn't do anything to win over an enemy organization... Because apparently dying trying to save him would be better than living without him? Girl, you deserve so much better. The “it's not easy to leave the Port Mafia, but it's not impossible. I've thought about it many times. Yet I didn't, because... ” sentence is sorta implied to refer to the fact that she didn't leave the Port Mafia because she was in love with Akutagawa (Ryuunosuke), right? I interpreted it that way when I first watched the anime, and I still believe it's the phrase's main implication– also because the actual closing sentence “because it's my job” doesn't make any sense, as she's basically saying “I'm not leaving my job because it's my job”; it's evident there's a deeper meaning to it hinting to Higuchi having romantic feelings for Akutagawa (unless... the circular phrase is used to metaphorically express how she's hopelessly stuck in a toxic work environment, but I can hardly imagine the author going such lengths to express a concept they visibly have no interest in developing). Point is, the fact that she's basically saying she's willing to keep working for a job that makes her allegedly unhappy just because she loves a man is... Not great. Besides, Higuchi going “it's my job” at Akutagawa after he asked her sorry like???? Now, after ten months of being into bsd, I can find it vaguely cute, but you can bet the first time I watched it I was like. bestie, beloved, light of my life, your job can NOT be to endure abuse after abuse from your coworker. Get yourself a new job asap, and feel free to deck Akutagawa too while you're at it.

What's nasty about Akutagawa beating Higuchi again isn't the beating itself, as much as Higuchi being obsessed with Akutagawa despite of it, and their whole dynamic never being framed as negative. It would be one thing if the whole situation was framed as toxic but... It's very much not. It's not like the reader is lead to despise Akutagawa for what he does, it's just something that's there. The narrative doesn't look like it's going in a direction of Higuchi emancipating herself either, but rather learning to roll with the abuse thanks to fleeting rewards of acknowledgement which is, once again, gross. It's gross to display a model of woman who would stay in a work place that constantly mistreats and disrespects her because it's worth her abusive crush telling her “I'm sorry” once every blue moon. Hell yeah you are sorry Akutagawa! If Higuchi had chosen to cut off his life support right there I wouldn't find it hard not to consider it rightful and legit on her side. The way they handle Higuchi's character is gloriously catastrophic and there's maybe not a better example of how the author doesn't know how to write women, has literally no clue on... The fact that women are p e o p l e and any sane person would leave such a toxic environment at the first chance. But of course they would rather think any woman would stay stuck with a terrible job if it's for a handsome, brooding guy (bruh??? Bruh???????? Sorta crying right now sorry)

Then again, the issue isn't even the relationship being toxic itself– I mean, it sucks for Higuchi, but one can decide to portray a toxic relationship in fiction. The issue is that it's evidently not intended to be perceived as toxic. Nobody ever sides with Higuchi, or voices the fact that she's evidently being abused; Higuchi easily forgives Akutagawa when he apologizes (it doesn't even count as forgiving because she never was even angry or frustrated at him to begin with what the fuck). Akutagawa hitting Higuchi is even used as a gag and like. What the fuck. Who in the world could ever find it funny. What the fuck.

Tbh when I entered the fandom I was very surprised to find out the cycle of abuse was typically framed like this:

Mori → Dazai → Akutagawa → Kyouka

when after watching the anime I definitely had an idea more of the sorts of:

(Mori) → Dazai → Akutagawa → Higuchi

(Very side note but at this point Mori towards Dazai barely counts as abuse, like what did he even ever do to him? Emotional abuse barely stands too since Dazai is, on admission of Mori himself, extremely hard to manipulate)

I feel like Higuchi and Akutagawa's relationship mirrors a lot what used to be Akutagawa's relationship with Dazai when Dazai was still in the pm, especially in the way both Higuchi and Akutagawa are obsessed with their own senpai and gaining his approval. And honestly, just as I am a firm supporter of Akutagawa growing out of his infatuation for Dazai and never forgiving him for what he's done to him, I also believe Akutagawa doesn't deserve Higuchi's forgiveness and could rot in hell as much as I care (joking, but also, don't hurt Higuchi and then expect to have my sympathy).

Plus, THE WHOLE “this female leader becomes useless and powerless as soon as her talented partner is out of the game” the episode carries through like NNNNGGGHHH biting biting chewing wood then why did you even make her leader in the first place???? Like what's the point???????? The rethoric that women are literally useless without a man?????????? I get that this chapter came out around 2013 but like. C'mon. So did Kill la Kill and Psycho-Pass. C'mon. (Also the “we won't recognize the legitimacy of this woman's authority until she demonstrates she's willing to die / throws herself in a suicide mission” but that's a whole different category of “saving other people's lives gives me permission to keep living” “people can't live unless someone tells them ‘it's okay to go on’ ” bsd fucked up morals this post is already too long to get into)

But like (and here starts the nicer section): time has passed since I watched the episode and read the chapter. I reluctantly grew fonder of both Akutagawa and Higuchi. And despite the fact that everything I've said still stands... Akutagawa did say sorry. We never saw him interact with Higuchi after that, which leaves space to hope he's changed in the way he behaves with her (more likely author has realized how fucked up and nasty the whole thing was and opted to never show them interact again, but eh). And while Akutagawa saying sorry didn't effect me at all when I first watched it, because what he did to Higuchi is unforgivable (that much I still believe)... He still apologized. When I first watched the episode, I didn't care the slightest about Akutagawa– besides despising him for how he treated Higuchi, of course. But as the story unwraps itself, it's hard not to grow sympathetic of him, especially after learning about the Dark Era events / the Heartless Cur events / seeing him act in the Moby Dick fight arc too to an extent. I still firmly believe Higuchi shouldn't forgive him, and I don't either for what he's done to her, but as a reader I at least now have an explanation to why he acted that way towards her, and I can understand him. I can now catch more layers to him saying sorry, the effort it must have took him, the admission of having been wrong (which is a huge thing, like, what other character in this series has ever admitted of being wrong? So many characters believing they're infallible), the real intention of making amends and learn from his mistakes which is... Admittedly nice. I mean, character development is great. Everyone is weak for character development, and Akutagawa's is a huge one. What were before words I would have forcibly shoved back in his throat are now reluctantly heartwarming, because they show an Akutagawa who's willing to change and become a better person. But from Higuchi's point of view, that still doesn't change how much harm and suffering he caused her, you know? That doesn't change the fact Higuchi should never forgive him for what he's done to her, just like Akutagawa is entitled to never forgive Dazai for all the abuse he was perpetrator of. I just overall think one's redemption does require amends to be made, but can't demand forgiveness. Akutagawa's step of apologizing is important and necessary for him to make amends and start to become a better person; but that does not and never will entitle him to Higuchi's forgiveness. I now like that scene some more because it's a big first display of development for Akutagawa's character, and because despite the bad writing I could never dislike Higuchi; I like it because I like to imagine that being a moment of growth for both of them, if I make myself forcibly forget about their displeasing canon characterization. I like it because I now like both characters and, despite rationally thinking they're most likely better off separate ways, it still compells me to imagine them being happy and in good terms together. I like it because Higuchi in Harukawa's art style is so freaking pretty

Mandatory tl;dr: I don't like the chapter because it perpetuates and romanticizes the rethoric of women being destined to be made miserable by a man their whole lives with no chances of getting out, as well as displaying a huge systematic unbalance in Higuchi and Akutagawa's relationship with Higuchi being constantly made weaker and dependent; I like it more now because I got attached to Higuchi and Akutagawa, because it shows a growth of Akutagawa and because I wouldn't be able to hate Higuchi no matter what.

Dear Op‚ you said chapter 14 was one of your favorite chapters so you've probably thought about it longer and way more thoroughly than me‚ and it's possible that after reading this there wasn't a single thing you agreed with. And that's okay!! I hope reading this made you view the chapter from a new perspective even if you ultimately disagree with my takes.

#C'mon like. I love my girl Higuchi. But I love her because she's victim of such awful writing‚ I can't bring myself to hate her.#I love her because every day I wake up and actively tell myself–#“a man's awful writing of female characters won't ever be enough to make me hate a woman”. So like. Yeah #ichiyō higuchi #ryūnosuke akutagawa #bsd #bungou stray dogs #I remember me watching episode x with my friend and she commented “Higuchi? She's such a [sottona]”#which is to say bottom in a derisory‚ derogative way and I was like... Girl you need help ;;;;#Did we seriously become so desensibilized to abuse we can now see it as a joke of some kind? Find it funny? It's depressing.#Idk I guess their dynamics would have been bearable despite the unbalance of power if only they had the minimum decency of–#not having Akutagawa hit Higuchi but like... That's beyond any forgiveness for me sorry very much not sorry.#Seeing it happen repetedly was disgusting for me #There's even a big big factor of cultural context playing a role.#There *is* a long existing history of men abusing women who live with the illusion they could be loved back and it's... Yeah just. Lets not #bsd negativity #people asks me stuff #It's just. It really all goes back to the unbalance of power tbh.#Why is it always the cool brooding overpowered male character with the useless no skill whiner female partner. Just :///#It's no wonder I like sskk so much seriously– because I know at any point they could beat each other's ass.#I just think equality is important in a relationship‚ any kind of relationship?#I've been writing this for three days btw I couldn't stop adding paragraphs 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️#I've talked with my landlord and now at 17:45 I'm FINALLY going to take my nap goodnight #bsd ch 14

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