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aronarchy · 1 year

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Why we don’t like it when children hit us back

To all the children who have ever been told to “respect” someone that hated them.

March 21, 2023

Even those of us that are disturbed by the thought of how widespread corporal punishment still is in all ranks of society are uncomfortable at the idea of a child defending themself using violence against their oppressors and abusers. A child who hits back proves that the adults “were right all along,” that their violence was justified. Even as they would cheer an adult victim for defending themself fiercely.

Even those “child rights advocates” imagine the right child victim as one who takes it without ever stopping to love “its” owners. Tear-stained and afraid, the child is too innocent to be hit in a guilt-free manner. No one likes to imagine the Brat as Victim—the child who does, according to adultist logic, deserve being hit, because they follow their desires, because they walk the world with their head high, because they talk back, because they are loud, because they are unapologetically here, and resistant to being cast in the role of guest of a world that is just not made for them.

If we are against corporal punishment, the brat is our gotcha, the proof that it is actually not that much of an injustice. The brat unsettles us, so much that the “bad seed” is a stock character in horror, a genre that is much permeated by the adult gaze (defined as “the way children are viewed, represented and portrayed by adults; and finally society’s conception of children and the way this is perpetuated within institutions, and inherent in all interactions with children”), where the adult fear for the subversion of the structures that keep children under control is very much represented.

It might be very well true that the Brat has something unnatural and sinister about them in this world, as they are at constant war with everything that has ever been created, since everything that has been created has been built with the purpose of subjugating them. This is why it feels unnatural to watch a child hitting back instead of cowering. We feel like it’s not right. We feel like history is staring back at us, and all the horror we felt at any rebel and wayward child who has ever lived, we are feeling right now for that reject of the construct of “childhood innocence.” The child who hits back is at such clash with our construction of childhood because we defined violence in all of its forms as the province of the adult, especially the adult in authority.

The adult has an explicit sanction by the state to do violence to the child, while the child has both a social and legal prohibition to even think of defending themself with their fists. Legislation such as “parent-child tort immunity” makes this clear. The adult’s designed place is as the one who hits, and has a right and even an encouragement to do so, the one who acts, as the person. The child’s designed place is as the one who gets hit, and has an obligation to accept that, as the one who suffers acts, as the object. When a child forcibly breaks out of their place, they are reversing the supposed “natural order” in a radical way.

This is why, for the youth liberationist, there should be nothing more beautiful to witness that the child who snaps. We have an unique horror for parricide, and a terrible indifference at the 450 children murdered every year by their parents in just the USA, without even mentioning all the indirect suicides caused by parental abuse. As a Psychology Today article about so-called “parricide” puts it:

Unlike adults who kill their parents, teenagers become parricide offenders when conditions in the home are intolerable but their alternatives are limited. Unlike adults, kids cannot simply leave. The law has made it a crime for young people to run away. Juveniles who commit parricide usually do consider running away, but many do not know any place where they can seek refuge. Those who do run are generally picked up and returned home, or go back on their own: Surviving on the streets is hardly a realistic alternative for youths with meager financial resources, limited education, and few skills.

By far, the severely abused child is the most frequently encountered type of offender. According to Paul Mones, a Los Angeles attorney who specializes in defending adolescent parricide offenders, more than 90 percent have been abused by their parents. In-depth portraits of such youths have frequently shown that they killed because they could no longer tolerate conditions at home. These children were psychologically abused by one or both parents and often suffered physical, sexual, and verbal abuse as well—and witnessed it given to others in the household. They did not typically have histories of severe mental illness or of serious and extensive delinquent behavior. They were not criminally sophisticated. For them, the killings represented an act of desperation—the only way out of a family situation they could no longer endure.

- Heide, Why Kids Kill Parents, 1992.

Despite these being the most frequent conditions of “parricide,” it still brings unique disgust to think about it for most people. The sympathy extended to murdering parents is never extended even to the most desperate child, who chose to kill to not be killed. They chose to stop enduring silently, and that was their greatest crime; that is the crime of the child who hits back. Hell, children aren’t even supposed to talk back. They are not supposed to be anything but grateful for the miserable pieces of space that adults carve out in a world hostile to children for them to live following adult rules. It isn’t rare for children to notice the adult monopoly on violence and force when they interact with figures like teachers, and the way they use words like “respect.” In fact, this social dynamic has been noticed quite often:

Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.

(https://soycrates.tumblr.com/post/115633137923/stimmyabby-sometimes-people-use-respect-to-mean)

But it has received almost no condemnation in the public eye. No voices have raised to contrast the adult monopoly on violence towards child bodies and child minds. No voices have raised to praise the child who hits back. Because they do deserve praise. Because the child who sets their foot down and says this belongs to me, even when it’s something like their own body that they are claiming, is committing one of the most serious crimes against adult society, who wants them dispossessed.

Sources:

“The Adult Gaze: a tool of control and oppression,” https://livingwithoutschool.com/2021/07/29/the-adult-gaze-a-tool-of-control-and-oppression

“Filicide,” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filicide

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acewizardinspace · 1 year

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I think the 'the jedi use child soldiers' thing is stupid for a lot of reasons, but among those is that this is a complete misunderstanding of how children's media works. Kids want to see themselves doing amazing things and giving that an in depth analysis that boils down to 'all these adults are evil' is poor, bad faith, media criticism.

That being said, if you compare Star Wars to just about any other YA work, the jedi are miles better as far as child care goes. Canonly every single one of these 'kids in danger' has a dedicated adult who is ideally supposed to be with them to teach and protect them. Very uncommon for the genre.

So if people are mad at the jedi for this, I can't fathom what their reaction to other YA literature is. And if they hate YA literature, idk, maybe they shouldn't be reading YA. Just a thought.

#in defense of the jedi #pro jedi #the other reasons the child solider thing is dumb is that most padawans are not children #like ahsoka was considered young. Dooku was what 16 when he became one? Obi-Wan was 25 and knighted earlier than planned #even if they were knighted early because of the war (which i think is stupid and there is no evidence for that)#that doesn't make them all kids...#and the character we see as child padawans are clearly there for children to watch and enjoy #I mean unpredictable things happen but child padawans are not supposed to be facing danger alone #but eased into it by a trusted adult which is not what happens in ever other YA book #Honestly if you hate the jedi for this but don't equally hate every other adult in every other YA book #maybe you are just LOOKING for reasons to hate the jedi. In which case idk maybe examine why that is #and if you do hate all adults in YA maybe it is time to move onto adult literature because you grew up #which is awesome! I love adult books but judging kids media by these standards and hating people for wanting simple stuff #in their book created to be simple is kind of rude you know?#i realize this post is probably hitting a wasp's nest but I mean if you want to take what I say out of context #(because in context I didn't do or say anything wrong)#well that says more about you than me doesn't it #my thoughts

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bonefall · 7 months

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Was Squilf happy that her apprentice got with her grandchild? Did she set them up/is it common in BB for older family members and mentors to "recommend" mates? Not like an arranged marriage thing but more like your aunt going "you know my old apprentice Dudeheart, well, he has a son that's such a bright and courteous young man, I really think you two might have a lot to talk about"

It's SUPER common, probably making up a solid percentage of matches-made. That's just how it is in a society that heavily values making connections between its members; everyone's got The Auntie who's trying to introduce you to handsome and responsible suitors.

Rosetail actually paired up her son Redtail with Runningwind. I feel like she was a great matchmaker in her time, but I haven't yet picked any others she paired up. Maybe Lionheart and Frostfur! That could be cute!

But I'm not sure if Squilf did matchmaking for Spark and Holly. They were actually kithood friends and had the seeds of romance long before they blossomed.

When Sparkpelt explains this to Nightheart someday, she'll describe it as something that was always there, as right as the drops that slumber within a fat cloud. Even before it drizzles, its nature is simply to rain.

#Something I try to balance is that canon often slaps apparentices with young mentors #But in BB that would be avoided like the fucking plague #Mentors are supposed to be old experienced and connected #Because in BB they serve an INVALUABLE social purpose #They're literally responsible for turning a child into a well-adjusted adult #And expected to forge connections that the apprentice will maintain their whole lives #So really it makes more sense that not all warriors get the honor #And getting your first apprentice is more likely to happen at 5 years than the bare minimum in BB which is 2 or 3 years.#It's no mistake that Dove ends up going to Shadow where her mentor Birchfall has a TON of friends. Including Smokefall and Talonclaw.#Better bones au #Mentorships #Matchmaking

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swordsonnet · 1 year

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when talking about topics like maturity and (self-)infantilisation, it's important to remember that there will always be disabled adults for whom the "normal" benchmarks of adulthood are not attainable or even applicable at all. if you want to be an ally to disabled people, you need to support all of us, not just the ones you find palatable - and that includes people who have "childish" interests, who get very emotional about seemingly trivial things, who aren't able to be independent in the way that adults are expected to be. that doesn't mean that we "need to grow up", or that we're reverting to a childlike state to avoid our responsibilities, or whatever op-ed writers think is wrong with gen z these days. it's just the way we are, and liking plushies or struggling with certain tasks doesn't in fact make us children! disabled adults are still adults, and still deserving of dignity, regardless of whether or not we can live up to the rigid societal norms of what it means to be an adult.

#still kinda pissed off at that article thats going around atm #it made a few half-decent points but they were buried under a mountain of bullshit #if youre writing about how young adults deny themselves agency by engaging in childlike activities #and you dont acknowledge the way that disabled people are constantly infantilised by abled society just for existing #and often have limited agency to begin with because it was forcibly taken from us #and you dont even question the value of forcing a normative timeline of development onto the vast diversity of humanity #but instead uncritically use this questionable model to further contribute to the infantilisation of disabled people #by stigmatising ultimately harmless traits/behaviours and calling them childish #then you havent just missed the point - you were aiming in the opposite direction of the point from the start #disability #ableism #actually autistic #(by far not the only disability this applies to but the main one i was thinking of)#also wanna note that children should be allowed to have meaningful agency as well. if your definition of child is 'stupid and powerless'#then that's a problem in itself. but that's a whole other can of worms #even if children were treated better (and they should be!) disabled adults should still be seen as adults #because that's what we are

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mikakuna · 2 months

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so dick as robin can want to kill the man who murdered his parents and bruce thinks no less of him, but jason as robin can want to be violent with pimps, rapists, and drug dealers because of his experiences growing up and bruce thinks he's going to become the dirtiest, nastiest murderous criminal in the world?

#this can all be explained in one phrase: rich white man #dick was violent as well when he wanted to kill zucco #and sure bruce might've resonated more with dick bc they share the same backstory #but him just automatically seeing jason in a bad light after he gets violent with criminals is so...#welcome to classism: dc's speciality #it's funny because i would maybe defend bruce if he said jason would've become a criminal without his intervention if jason was a teenager #or young adult #but bruce saw a full on child not even twelve years old #clearly stealing just to be able to afford some food for the night because he's homeless and has no parents #and just automatically saw him as a future criminal instead of the starving child he was #jason todd #red hood #batman #bruce wayne #dc #dick grayson

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comradekatara · 26 days

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sorry this is not atla related, but have you ever read animorphs? i think you might enjoy it, it also has themes of children trying to navigate war on a huge scale and the ways they have to change themselves (and each other) to cope and hopefully change things. which is not to say it doesn’t have its issues obviously lol it was very much written in the 90s but it’s full of deeply compelling characters and moral issues and such

it's funny that you say that because my friend once spent upwards of 3 hours explaining the plot of animorphs to me as he remembered it from his childhood. so no, i have not actually read those books (i didn't really read children's books as a child, which i know is ironic coming a blog dedicated to a nickelodeon cartoon) but i basically feel like i have. this friend has since watched atla (i mentioned him here) and we've also talked about it at length (for at least a combined total of 3 hours, but probably far more); i definitely remember asking him at some point which series he preferred, and he said atla without a shadow of a doubt lmfao. but he's also the most sokkacoded person i've ever met in my life, so i think he might be biased.

#garagevermin #asks #by sokkacoded i mean that purely as a compliment btw #like if sokka was a well-adjusted mentally stable human being (an oxymoron i know)#anyway. that's my only real knowledge of animorphs #and no i don't plan on reading it #i generally don't really enjoy reading young adult genre fiction #the atla novels are an exception simply because katara irrevocably altered the chemicals in my brain as a child #but mostly i read like. dostoevsky.

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have-kake · 4 months

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Reading other people's LU fics is so weird sometimes. Like I operate w/ a very concrete idea of what all their ages are, so seeing the dude I headcanon as 22 be 16 in a fic is jarring haha

It's not a bad thing, but it's kinda funny.

That's kinda what I like abt LU tho. The only Link's age we know is Wind. Everyone one else is an unknown. We know Twi was 18 during TP, but we don't know how long it's been so he's also an unknown. It lets us imagine what we believe to be appropriate. I hope we never get their current ages

Edit: turns out I deadass forgot abt Wild who says he's 117. but he got memory issues so is he really lol

#idk maybe it's cuz I'm 4'9 and almost 30 that I see four and think “yeah he's 22”#the fic isn't even about four. it was just a throwaway line ;A;#but on a similar note. seeing Hyrule written as being 19-20 always feels weird cuz he has such strong 16y/o energy imo #old enough that people expect him to be an adult (hence the occasional shyness)#but still young enough that he sometimes gets treated like a child #linked universe #in my defense. I'm not the biggest wild fan. and I also posit. bro has serious memory issues #he could've just been like *well flora turned 17 when the calamity happened. I'm prob around the same age*

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zer0point5ive · 6 months

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thought about amanda young thought about her father thought about “i was terrified of the dark and he would leave me in there. alone. for hours” .. critical damage to the psyche if we’re being honest

#head in Hands. she makes me so so sad #if youre ever enjoying the moment dont forget to think about how lonely amanda mustve been as a child and even then as an adult the only #person who was genuinely nice to her for nothing in return being adam ohhhh. starts pacing around peter strahm style #i think that if adam got to give her a hug well. things wouldve just been better #📹#amanda young

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apollos-boyfriend · 5 months

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i asked my dad if icarus smiled when he fell. he was confused so i told him the story. he said no because he failed. i tried to explain to him that he smiled because he was free. he said it was like getting a job, your boss telling you not to do a specific thing or you get fired, you do the specific thing and get fired. you would not smile. i tell him he doesnt understand. he says i do not understand. i tell him he smiled because icarus was finally free after so long. he tells me icarus did not smile because he failed. thoughts?

i think no one is surprised to know i agree with you. comparing the myth of icarus to something like getting a job is already missing the point, because a job and one's life are two very different things. a job is not permanent. it is not who you will be for your entire life. it is not all you will know for your entire life. if you get fired from your job, you can always apply for a new one. they're replaceable, in the end.

i'm having some troubles putting it into words, but comparing it to a job ignores, as you said, the freedom of it. the emotions of finally having control of your own life. all icarus had ever known were the walls of his prison. how can he be blamed for wanting to experience that freedom? to truly feel the beauty of the world? of course he was smiling. for once in his life, he had made a decision of his own. he had lived how he wanted to. he finally had a choice.

#muse talk #dumbartistinnit #i think there's also an aspect missing #of icarus' age #in ovid's iteration specifically he appears to be depicted as fairly young #ovid even uses 'puer' to describe him #which can mean young man but ALSO can be used to describe a child #iirc anywhere upwards to 14-17 ish #it was used for older boys as well but the connotation is young. he was young.#an adult mindset cannot be applied to him for many reasons

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fellhellion · 8 months

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felt emotions abt 2099 again….

#tunes talks 2099 #something abt how from a very young age he got used to lacking power #to adults holding power over him. first with George’s abuse and then with Tyler Stone’s threats #hell even the whole thing w Kron is that even though he’s a child he’s protected by his association to a powerful adult #idk. Miguel’s decision to become spiderman is honestly my favourite arc in 2099 (and personally the one I think is the most well written) so #I love finding tidbits that make me appreciate it even more #long post

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keepthetension · 19 days

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can't fully articulate how much it means to me that this character

is the one who says this

there's so much in this show i love for young queer viewers, but religious queer character? i adore <3

#23.5 the series #not that i don't love it for older queer viewers too but like #i would've loved to see this when i was a very young person who was SO confused about the racism and homophobia around me #and my little child brain was like: well clearly religion doesn't work because these pious adults are TERRIBLE people #and i just washed my hands of the whole religion thing entirely #there were other factors too but idk. i wish i'd seen this then. i wish i'd seen that religion and queerness can go together #and i love this for all the young people who are seeing it now <3

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smearedgore · 9 months

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a 20 something razputin + his mentor because why not. i think theyre good friends.

REBLOGS > LIKES

close-ups + info under cut.

alright close up done, some stuff about this bc i do have thoughts.

His specialization is levitation, clairvoyance and Telekinesis. Though he's really good at most psychic skills. He's mostly in stakeouts, and infiltration missions. The occassional retrieval of stolen goods. He's surprisingly REALLY good at lying.

To hollis' shagrin

He's drawn as early 20s. like 22-23~ around then

still a junior agent, people dont really take him seriously seriously at the moment. he's fighting his way through to be considered elite. But hollis' teacher instincts simply Dont Allow It

He's no longer dating Lili. Mostly cuz like. shit didnt work out. theyre BEST FRIENDS though. like the closest of buddies. you'll catch him dead before he talks ill of that girl on god.

he's really smart and incredibly skilled, but horribly reckless in missions. self preservation is NON existant

Sasha still mentors him closely. Basically they're mission duo whenever sasha's not out on missions with milla or doing something else. Both to sasha's pride and disdain

Sasha's barely 33 and he's already getting grey hairs from this kid because he gets himself almost killed every other mission. someone save him why did he decide to mentor this child.

he's too attached to stop now though.

#gregor says: hyperfix stuff.#gregor says: talent show of mine.#razputin aquato #sasha nein #psychonauts #adult raz #sasha loves this child but MY GOD why is he like this.#he cant handle this much stress at this old age (he's barely in his early 30s)#i do hc that sasha started the psychonauts when he was young as well just not as young as raz #probably around 14-15 yo #so id say thats why sasha kinda gravitates towards mentoring raz #sees his younger self in him type beat #EDITED POST #sorry for the added disclaimer #its just a personal thing. probably shouldve clarified earlier #not mad at anyone for liking im glad u guys enjoy #just prefer the reach

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sonknuxadow · 11 months

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"SONIC CHARACTERS AGES DONT MAKE SENSE!!!" people when a franchise about talking animals with superpowers isnt 100 percent accurate to real life

#alternate caption: ''sonic characters ages dont make sense'' people when a franchise for children mostly has kid characters #''amy has her own apartment !!!!!!!!!!!'' okay? shes also a pink hedgehog why are you demanding realism here. shes still obviously a kid?#same with tails . hes still obviously a very young child even if he does things that real life kids wouldnt be doing #also the thing with shadow ?? when characters from anything else get frozen for a while people have no issue accepting that they didnt age #but for some reason a bunch of people think shadow is actually 50+ evne though its the exact same situation??? hello #also long running franchises where the characters dont age or the timeline doesnt make perfect sense #is such a common thing why is it suddenly a huge problem when sonic does it #also when you think about the in universe standards for how teens look and act most teen sonic characters are pretty obviously kids #idk where this ''well theyre basically adults!!!!'' stuff comes from #its cleraly just a thinly veiled excuse to be weird about them

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introspectivememories · 6 months

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personally my least favorite interpretation of luffy in fics is when they write him to be like a child or when they act like he doesn't experience ugly emotions like jealousy. it gives me the ick soo bad bc luffy's literally a teenager. he's 19 after the time skip. why do some of y'all write him like he's 10??? is it bc he still has a wonder for life and his joy is unrestrained? is it bc he takes every day as it comes and doesn't spend hours over thinking his actions?

#or when they set up like clear family dynamics in the crew #x and x are the mom/dad and luffy is the child!!#i'm exploding you with my mind #found family doesn't mean we have to set up a nuclear family #to me luffy is child in the sense that he is very young #like i'm 21. every1 below that is a child to me #but luffy's not a Child to me #even pre-timeskip luffy is not a Child to me #literally at best he's a young adult with kid-like tendencies #idk i'm not explaining this well #but like i know it when i see it #whatever #one piece #monkey d luffy #ritz.txt

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prolibytherium · 8 months

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Absolutely death gripped clenched trying not to comment on reductive posts on ancient greek homosexual relationships

#It is neither wholly '0mg two gay guys in love!!' and 'I am humiliating and debasing a lower man by making a woman out of him'#There's heavy elements of that in how they conceptualized penetrator vs penetrated but the erastes (lover/protector) and eromenos (beloved)#relationship was significantly more complex than that #Like it is conceptualized as sort of a mentor/mentee relationship and a positive element for an adolescent's development #It was the subject of romantic plays and you get things like people in antiquity in heated debates over who is the #erastes and who is the eromenos between Achilles and Patroclus (to better depict them in plays)#The bottom line is more 'the socially accepted m/m relationships were (what we would now consider) an adult and a child #(or young man) with the age difference being a fundamental element to the dynamic.'#And more broadly being penetrated in sex assigned a 'lower' or 'womanly' role and it would not be conventionally accepted #for an older/more socially powerful man to recieve penetration (which certainly DID happen though)#So absolutely a moment in the history of male homosexuality and not something to just go 'ew ew bad evil ewwie' about but also #not something you want to project modern conceptions of LGBT identity upon #Also we know relatively little about relationships between women in ancient Greece due to lack of sources due to being a #highly patriarchal culture but we can't actually know that they did not involve similar power dynamic #Certainly not to the same extent or in such a well socially defined way (bc they conceptualize sex almost entirely through a lens of #penetration) but I think you should be treating relations between ancient Greek women with the same degree of #historical distance from our lives and identities today.#Ok death grip failed I just typed an entire rant. Fiuck it

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oldestenemy · 9 months

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Thinking about Duncan Grimwater again.

Thinking about the wizard letting that fight play out.

About letting him win, landing in the commons, and using dungeon recall to go back, showing up behind him.

Thinking about "Did you really think with everything I've been through, that I would go down that easily?"

#anyways wizard losing it for a second over Duncan's very clear jealousy over their perceived 'status' and 'importance'#and going off on him about it. and basically going 'you want to be me? then finish it. no more pulling punches. kill me.'#wizard101 #anyways the scion series is going very well very good super great #duncan grimwater #for as kind as the wizard is i think it is very easy for those around them to forget that they committed murder at age 14?#this is not a pacifist child this is an exhausted young adult by now who has had more ripped away from them than most people have by age 80 #hell even as a CHILD they weren't a pacifist #this single kid has been carving their way through the spiral since age 12 and is not about to stop just because someone else thinks they-#get special treatement. not when that supposed special treatment is the thing traumatizing them to hell and back #lark is still playing funky wizard game from their childhood

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