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#which is again a characterization based off of the readers already having accepted that tim IS a better robin than jason was
bistephs · 2 years
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anyways y’all know how much i love under the hood / lost days but even with them it’s very clear how jason’s characterization as the “bad” robin is inseparable from his characterization post-resurrection. like i love red hood jason, i think he’s an incredibly interesting and compelling character, but even the “good” post-crisis red hood stories still depend so much on the reader accepting that jason was the violent, reckless robin, the robin with the “mean streak”, the robin who never deserved to be robin. the idea that jason was the “bad” robin and that that’s what led to him becoming red hood is so entrenched in red hood jason’s characterization (both post-crisis and n52) that it’s honestly hard to imagine what his character would look like without it.
#dc#jason todd#this is... bleh thought dump but also something that really sticks out to me#ok like. for example#one of the things i think lost days did really well w/ this (and i do think lost days did better with robin!jason than utrh)#is showing that jason's grudge against tim comes entirely from the fact that he sees tim as proof that bruce didn't care about him#because not only did bruce not kill joker but he also (seemingly) immediately replaced jason right after his death#jason doesn't give a shit about tim himself he cares that tim represents the final nail in the coffin of his relationship with bruce#and then you have the titans tower incident which is like... the opposite#iirc raven explicitly says at the end that jason was motivated purely by wanting to prove himself better than tim and bruce#which if you accept the 'bad robin' characterization- as opposed to tim & dick as the Good Robins- makes sense#jason was the robin who failed and he wants to prove himself better than the Good Robins and is jealous of them being Good Robins#but alas they are still innately better than him the Bad Robin and he can never measure up to them and that makes him Evil Crazy idk#like. for the record i have no problem with jason straight up hating tim#ESPECIALLY if it was portrayed as like. explicitly misdirected anger towards bruce that jason is projecting onto tim#despite tim having nothing to do with the drama between jason and bruce besides being The Symbol Of Bruce Not Caring About Jason#but as it is it's portrayed as jason being jealous that tim's better than him#which is again a characterization based off of the readers already having accepted that tim IS a better robin than jason was#and it's honestly really frustrating to still have all these character traits that are just entrenched in red hood jason at this point#that come from his 20 yr character assassination following his own violent death#like again. TO BE CLEAR. i am not saying every bad thing jason has ever done is just Bad Characterization#i'm saying that the reasoning behind a whole lot of his characterization (even the parts that i like!) are based on him being The Bad Robin#it's just frustrating! it's frustrating that this is something we're apparently Never Getting Away From#bc without it so much of his character and reasoning just doesn't make sense anymore
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bigskydreaming · 3 years
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Hi, I was reading your post about Jason punching Dick in the face when Dick revealed he fake his death was bullshit ( which it was) and it reminded me of an issue/question that has bothered me for sometime.
Why did people believe Dick was actually dead?
I’m not the most avid comic reader so maybe I missed something but it was always weird to me that everyone just accepted this especially given how Bruce was acting or should I say wasn’t acting.
This is a man when his child died another child had to come along and told him sir you are being too violent and emotional you need supervision. When his other child died he went all over the universe to bring him back to life because he knew it was possible ( which was happening at the same time), so why didn’t anyone think it was weird he wasn’t doing that for Dick. Can you imagine Dick really dying that soon after Damian it would be injustice Batman Version. You are telling me that Tim, Jason or Barbara didn’t think it was weird that Bruce didn’t also bring Dick’s corpse to the bring Damian back to life mission or mention it to themselves. Like what more likely Dick dead and Bruce is handling it well or that he fake his death to do something stupid and Dangerous after his partner/brother/ little bit my son the feelings are complicated died after he was knocked out and woke up to his corpse.
Oh man, this is like, the entire nature of my beef?
(Slight derail just to emphasize the fact real quick that Dick DID actually die, he was just revived quickly, but like, the trauma of his death was very real and its not like anyone was clued into Luthor having a resurrection backdoor built into his literal murder of Dick in the actual moment of it happening. So Dick’s death wasn’t fake, and additionally, he didn’t have anything to do with like, telling people about it, because he was literally comatose in the cave and recovering while Bruce was telling people....by the time Dick woke up in the cave, we already know that Alfred at least had already been convinced by Bruce that Dick was dead, so I have a kneejerk need to pushback against the Dick faked his death narrative by reminding people wherever possible that Dick had no agency in the spreading of that narrative. 
It happened without him being involved, and the only actual contribution he ever made to it was just not revealing he was alive before Grayson #12, after Bruce like.....emotionally, mentally and physically badgered him into accepting that doing so would be directly harmful to his family and he didn’t want to be the reason more people died when like, people had just died because he ‘let’ himself be captured and interrogated by Power Woman’s Lasso of Submission, did he?
SORRY TO BE PEDANTIC, just wanted to start this off on a clarification, even though I know the aim of your ask was very much in tune with the rest of my response. A lot of people don’t read the actual comics, so like, I’m never gonna skip over an opportunity to emphasize that the shorthand people use to refer to Dick’s death and the year he was with Spyral, is like, literally just shorthand for describing it. Its not actually an accurate description of how all that went down and who had the most hand in it).
BUT ANYWAY. BACK TO THE MEAT OF THE BEEF.
Okay so like, not only was the entire family and Bruce himself giving Dick shit for his death and Spyral, like, PAINFULLY egregious because it was literal victim blaming in every possible sense of the word....
None of it made a LICK of sense with ANY of their characterizations, and they ONLY all accepted it on face value because the Plot Demanded It, and when you're like, no, as a reader I say The Plot Demanded It is not a good enough reason for me to be like well sure, that makes sense......looking at the characters ACTUAL actions at face value pretty much just makes them all look like assholes?
Like, Tim has never gracefully accepted anyone's death. Ever. This is core characterization for him. He will go to the ends of the earth for his loved ones and to bring them back, prove they're not dead, refuse to let death be the final verdict for them. He was tempted to use the Lazarus Pit to bring his parents back to life. He refused to accept Bruce was dead long before he had any proof whatsoever of that theory. He tried to clone his BFF/future-husband Kon in his fucking basement like, dude was two whole inches away from going Full Dark Side in his quest to bring back a lost loved one no matter WHAT the cost.....and then you've got Dick unmasked onscreen, killed offscreen, and Bruce then reporting to the rest of them with zero inflection 'oh Dick's dead now. Its very sad' and Tim's just like, sure. Sounds legit.
I mean?!?!
And you're SO RIGHT ABOUT THE DAMIAN THING! Bruce LITERALLY LITERALLY LITERALLY went BEYOND the ends of the Earth, like, he full on chartered a fucking space ship to fly his whole family out to APOKOLIPS to bring Damian back from the dead by going to EXTREME lengths.....WHILE everyone else thought Dick was dead....
And not a single person looked at Bruce and was like, okay, not that we're not down to do this for Damian because we miss Stabby Smurf something fierce ourselves, but.....what the fuck is UP with you dude? Why aren't you displaying ANY hint of this same kind of energy in regards to your eldest son that you said you watched die right in front of you?
Like....I don't know that we were actually ever told that Dick's coffin was empty or had a fake in it, but like....this family of detectives who refuse to accept death, defy death, COME BACK FROM THE DEAD....not a single one of them said like, okay, if I'm gonna like, ACCEPT accept that Dick is dead and gone for good, I need to at least just see him one last time? That's literally all it would have taken for someone to realize hey something's a little wonky here. Where's the dead body, Pops?
Since when has Jason ever missed an opportunity to prove Bruce is a) full of shit, b) acting like an emotionless robot and all his kids deserve better especially when they've just like....died, c) just factually incorrect and wrong and jumped to a conclusion before it was conclusively proved, d) lying like a liar or e) all of the above?
Nobody even ASKED if Dick's body could be put in a Lazarus Pit? Yeah, Jason wouldn't necessarily recommend it himself, given what it put him through, but actually fuck that, I take that back, because I'm NOT actually of the opinion that Jason full on hates his life and actively spends every second of every day wishing he hadn't been resurrected, even if it had come with a huge buffet of additional trauma and pain.
And that's kinda what's implied when people just take it for granted that he would never be on board with any scenario involving using a Lazarus Pit to bring Dick back, because it suggests that based even just on his own experiences and feelings, he honestly believes Dick would prefer being dead and not have ANY further opportunities to be with his loved ones, his friends, help save the damn world again at some future point.....that Jason, projecting based just off himself, legit feels Dick would rather be dead than have another shot at life even WITH the downsides of Lazarus Pit usage? Nope. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Speaking of not buying it.....you know what was missing from all those soliloquies the others monologued at Dick about how they felt and were hurt and just devastated by his death, to such a point they can't seem to muster a single shred of happiness that he's NOT dead still -
(seriously, Damian was the ONLY person in ALL THE LANDS OF EMOTION-HAVING who expressed ANY kind of positive reaction to having Dick back. We were so fucking cheated of like.....ANY opportunity to have the characters show just how much they valued him by just being fucking HAPPY he was alive, no matter what else was involved....and then most of fandom compounded that by for years being like mmmm, no, Dick didn't get yelled at enough by his family for what HE put THEM through. Needs more yelling. More punching too. Bad Dick. Bad. This is the only way you'll learn not to die and get shipped off on a mission that you don't want but at least is to protect your family after being beaten into it by your dad whilst victim blaming you for dying in the first place. WHEN WILL YOU LEARN TO THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE AND THEIR FEELINGS FOR A CHANGE, DICK?!?)
- But like, BUT I DIGRESS aside....you know what was missing from all those monologues about how hard DICK'S death and ensuing year of basically exile from his loved ones was for EVERYONE BUT HIM?
We never got a single line of explanation as to what everyone else officially thinks even happened to him in the first place?
Like, did Bruce straight up just say oh bad news kids, your brother umm. Expired. Spontaneously. There's no one to blame, he just keeled over, its all very sad.
Is that how that went down?
You're telling me that the explanation of Dick's death didn't come with a single pointed finger at someone for this family of blame-happy vigilantes to like, BLAME for the loss of this brother they all mourned oh so much, they just couldn't help but blame him for all the hurt it caused them?
The family that in every other fic is like OBSESSED with avenging and being avenged and all things vengeful and even tangentially vengeance-y....like didn't ask for a single detail on whomst the fuck deprived us of our brother-having?
Where were the attempts on Luthor's life by Jason (who I mean, yeah I know it was in a previous continuity, but erasing that timeline doesn't erase my awareness of the time Dick killed Jason's murderer so like.....mmm, just saying, woulda been nice)....where was the rage directed at the Crime Syndicate and references to how seriously and personally the Batfam took making sure that they were PUNISHED for all this and would never be free to wreak havoc on their world or their family again? What did they tell Damian when he came back to life, and how are you going to tell me that this fraternal little ball of fury didn't aim himself like a cannonball at whomever the fuck had DARED take HIS Batman from him when Damian wasn't around to have his back?
Not only does everyone else's desire to be avenged start falling really flat the second you factor in hey maybe Dick feels "mmm what about MY avenging" sometimes, and why doesn't anyone ever care about doing that for him.....but also, y'know what REALLY sucks about the ONLY person we actually SEE being blamed for Dick's death and ensuing absence being like....Dick himself?
Not only were his family all super keen on making all of this HIS fault and HIM the bad guy because of how it made them all feeeeeeel (and meanwhile fuck his feelings, am I right Batfam hfaklshfklahfkla).....
They somehow found a way to justify prioritizing this OVER ever even getting around to blaming some villain for his death in the FIRST place, in the entire year or so they thought he was still dead!
Like, you couldn't come up with a single target in all that time, but Dick's back two seconds, and you don't even give him a chance to EXPLAIN before you're punching him, shutting him down with 'I expected better from you' and turning away with 'I don't want to hear it, why am I surprised Dick Grayson disappointed me again'?
afshklfhalfhalfhla
Make it make sense!
And like, it won't, cuz it doesn't, and it never will, and like I said at the top, the ONLY reason it all played out this way is because DC doesn't give a fuck about character development and deemed it necessary to go down this way for the sake of the plot (which was totes worth it, I mean, glad we sacrificed characters for this A+ plot which was clearly the greatest plot of all time and definitely justified every story choice made or not made around it loooool).
BUT.
BUT BUT BUT.
The problem isn't JUST that DC is stupid, even though that is an eternal mood and quite the problem.
Its that the SECOND large parts of fandom decided to play along with DC and just accept the story at face value, only add to it and play into it exactly as it happened in canon with no significant deviations, and like, heaping on the LITERAL abuse from Dick's siblings while ignoring the LITERAL abuse from his father....
THAT....is when all of this becomes relevant.
Because the second people decided TO engage with the reasoning DC gave for what Bruce did and how and what Dick did and how and just not mess with any of that and have it all play out exactly like that...
The second people are like, okay we're FINE with not just dismissing this story as OOC writing that doesn't make any sense, and actually VALIDATING it to various degrees by engaging with it as is....
That's when 'OOC writing' stops being an excuse or explanation for alllll of the above gaps in character logic and actions.
Because its like, when you had abundant chance to REJECT this story and say nope, this was bullshit from start to finish and I'm not here for it, when you were just as capable of transforming literally ANY aspect of this story you didn't like into something that made more sense to you....
And you chose not to.
That's.....accepting it as valid writing. You were like, okay, I'm game to just treat this as a thing that happened, just like they said that happened.
For the chance to give Dick shit for it, see. For the angst, see.
And that's when I'm like okay cool, so when engaging with this story as is and accepting it on face value and just delving into the characters as they were SHOWN interacting with and around these events......for the angst or whatever....
You guys just all decided en masse to just hop, skip and jump over allllllllll the opportunities for angst inherent in examining even ANY SINGLE ONE of the above lapses in judgment or hypocrisy on the parts of the characters (who don't get to be excused by OOC writing if you're not going to call the story an example of OOC writing, whoops).
And its just like, uh, what's up with that?
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Serpentine
Name/Nickname: Serpentine, Holly, Andy
Age: 18
Pronouns: she/her/My Lady
How would you describe yourself: I would not
Are requests open: Yes
What do you like writing most: Fluff. I love it when everyone is peaceful.
What do you like writing least: Character bashing. Sometimes I have to for the sake of the plot, but it hurts.
Who do you write for: Marvel - Bucky Barnes, Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Loki, Thor, Dr. Strange, Clint Barton, Pietro Maximoff (he didn’t die hmmm nope), Frank Castle (Jon Bernthal only), Brock Rumlow (don’t say anything Midnight, I know he’s a dick, leave me alone), Anatoly Ranskahov, Vladimir Ranskahov. Harry Potter - Sirius Black, Remus Lupin, Charlie Weasley, Fred Weasley, George Weasley, Draco Malfoy, Antonin Dolohov, Thorfinn Rowle, Rodolphus Lestrange (although I characterize him as fatherly more than anything), Rabastan Lestrange (although don’t expect mental stability), Fenrir Greyback, Corban Yaxley, Evan Rosier, Lucius Malfoy (if we go AU), Lucissa (Narcissa Black nee Malfoy + Lucius Malfoy), Theodore Nott, Blaise Zabini, Regulus Black, Jily (James + Lily), Sily (which is my take on Sirius + Lily, though mostly they are platonic sometimes I think hmm). I have a lot of my own personal headcanons for nearly all of these characters because I have spent many years of my life ‘living’ in the Wizarding World when I should have been doing my homework, so if something doesn’t vibe for you, I apologise, but I am very specific about my Harry Potter. 
POV & Other Characters: These can be OC or reader, platonic and romantic or unpaired accepted. For Harry Potter, I can also write them as Hermione Granger (like most HP fics are tbh). As for other characters, it’s all negotiable, but with Harry Potter fandom Slytherin characters are much more likely to get the OK bc I’m House biased (Go Snakes). The ones marked as couples are only written as couples, so don’t try to make me pair dear James Potter with anyone other than his Lily.
How long does it take to write a request: If I’m inspired, maybe an hour or two. Now when I post it...
Open to ask memes: Absolutely the hell yes. I love talking about myself.
Special Rules: I do not write smut (yet, bc I am innocent in the ways of the flesh), but I will yeet those to Midnight and I’ll do my best to take any other requests and if y’all wanna drop nasty imagines into the ask box or something, we’re all ears (eyes?). I will write poly ships, though again I reserve the right to decide how (e.g. M/M or nah) and there will be no sin.
Midnight
1. Name/Nickname: Midnight, Kai, (Barnes)
2. Age: 19
3. Pronouns: she/her/Soldat
4. How would you describe yourself: I... am basically a less intimidating Winter Soldier (memory problems, depression, anxiety) and an MCU genderbent Loki because I can be a sneaky little shit
5. Are requests open: YEET
6. What do you like writing most: Fluff. Any time I get to make scary assassins do domestic things... I am there for that
7. What do you like writing least: Death. Why y’all gotta do me dirty like that? There’s more than enough in the MCU alone guys. Can’t we just pretend we live in the Everybody Lives AU?
8. Who do you write for: Marvel - Loki Odinson, Thor Odinson, Tony Stark, Doctor Stephen Strange, Bucky Barnes, Peter Quill, Steve Rogers, Natasha Romanov, T’Challa, Peter Parker (aged up), Pietro Maximoff, Wade Wilson (Deadpool), Gamora DC - Jason Todd, Bruce Wayne, Diana Prince, Clark Kent, Connor Kent, Dick Grayson, Steve Trevor, Tim Drake, Wally West, Barry Allen, Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, Damian Wayne (aged up), Kaldur’ahm, Jaime Reyes, Bart Allen (aged up), Roy Harper (if you want YJ’s Red Arrow, please specify, otherwise my default is Arsenal), Hal Jordan Assassin’s Creed - Altair, Ezio
9. POV & other characters: I prefer reader inserts, however, if you would like an OC I would recommend naming the OC with a nickname so it makes it nicer for other readers to enjoy it. I will do specific ships if I ship them or I know enough about the ship. (eg WonderTrevor, SuperWonder, Stony, Stucky, IronStrange etc) I am also pretty okay with writing smut, but I may not be able to for specific characters/ships due to lack of experience in writing the sin, lol. (and yes, I will take your smut requests for Serpentine’s characters, and work with her to achieve the correct characterization, so long as time permits us to work on it in a timely fashion)
10. How long does it take to write a request: Depends on how busy I am, the alignment of the stars, the weather… jk, in truth, I can be very busy and also have to manage my own health so it can be from a half hour (if I’m really inspired) to up to a week or two. (I will try my best to turn out work in a decent time though, and if I have to ask Serpentine for help I will)
11. Special Rules: Already covered, I guess? Just bear with me on getting things out on time.
Please note; most of this was written by Serpentine at 3 am, I (Midnight), only wrote my own FAQs, also at 3 am. If none of this makes sense, that would be why. Serpentine rarely makes sense without supervision, so feel free to ask for clarification if the wording is awkward.
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