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suffarustuffaru · 3 months

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what is your opinion on the fact that tappei intended us to hate reinhard for killing theresia

hello!! :o im not sure if tappei really Intended for us to hate reinhard for that per say—i think more so tappei intends to show the astrea drama in general in a very nuanced manner (unless he proves me wrong and does weird stuff to develop them later on wjfnd but ill stand by this atm because theres a lot of textual evidence i think!!)

the arc 5 astrea drama is the very first time we learn about Any of that, and the way we learn it is interesting. this is AFTER getting attached to reinhard and wilhelm, who prior to arc 5 were established to be good well meaning and respectable people. then heinkel comes in claiming they both did shitty stuff, and of course heinkel makes the worst impression of all time, is shitty himself, AND interrupted wilhelm and reinhards reunion, so we’re not inclined to side with heinkel here. but the more we learn about the astrea family conflict, the more we realize, alongside subaru, that 1. wilhelm is not as great as he seems to be (its like learning that a close family member or friend has done some terrible stuff!! the common reaction to it is to feel Disappointed or Sad or maybe a little angry!!) and subaru also learns that 2. the entire situation is not black and white. it takes a heavy emotional toll on wilhelm, heinkel, and reinhard.

it’s also interesting that we dont Always learn info about it directly from the family members themselves—theresias dead of course and doesnt say much when she briefly comes back (more on this later), reinhard becomes more subdued around his family (which has gotta be a trauma response in an attempt to minimize the conflict), heinkel and wilhelm are unreliable narrators driven by their emotions. we learn some of the bulk of the drama from JULIUS, an outsider, but someone with ties to reinhard personally and the knights. so we’re also getting unreliable info about someone like heinkel (whos got a reputation thats honestly shittier than even his behavior, which i pity him for), and someone like reinhard is extremely hard to read (we just know that hes. you know. Traumatized. and Sad.)

i DO think though that throughout all of this we’re supposed to sympathize with EVERY astrea family member. every single one. we’re meant to understand each of their actions, because they all contribute to the family dysfunction unwillingly or consciously.

we’re given the reasoning behind almost all of their actions in the conflict. wilhelm lashed out because of grief, and hes spent years regretting what he did and not knowing how to fix things. heinkel’s an alcoholic from stress, trauma, and self-hatred, and post-arc 5 we see more of his psyche (which is shown in a very honest sympathetic light as well, hinting at heinkel getting future development and most likely a redemption arc). heinkel then lashes out (which is a Sad pattern in this family given wilhelm also does that... and its implied that heinkel is also like this Because of wilhelm's influence) to deal with all of this too (and because he Genuinely thinks those things now. hes a sad bitter man). we also know from side stories that heinkel used to be a good man who truly loved reinhard, and we do know that heinkel still loves louanna and has spent YEARS searching for a cure. as for reinhard, he was a CHILD (five when it first started!!) throughout almost all of this conflict, and hes the youngest member of his family and still young even as he’s grown up now. and he certainly didnt Intend to kill his own grandma when he was five, and he definitely deals with the guilt of all that years later. he shuts down around his family in the present, for one. and two—reinhard was failed by his family members, who have been ADULTS for the entire conflict and are his father and grandfather respectively. if anything, reinhard has the least blame here. he was a child!! a child thats been conditioned into serving the kingdom at All Costs to himself!! heinkel and wilhelms grief is understandable but it should not cost them their literal child!! they were the ones with the responsibility to pull themselves together and they failed to do that!!

but then reinhard kills theresia.

the thing with reinhard killing theresia is that reinhard was very much not wrong for that. tappei takes the time to show corpse soldier theresia going after heinkel and wilhelm—both of which are too weak in this moment physically and emotionally to stop theresia, WHO IS THEIR MOTHER AND WIFE RESPECTIVELY. and iirc wilhelm was also injured by her. heinkel pisses himself in fear while begging for her to stop—or something along those lines. its Terrifying. and it shows theresia, as she was in that moment, is a threat!! what else was reinhard going to do?? if he doesnt apprehend theresia, shes going to kill the rest of their family T^T

yeah so. reinhard kills theresia. afterwards, heinkel and wilhelm give reinhard shit for it but again, they were going to DIE if reinhard hadnt stepped in. and its clear that reinhard is saddened by what he had to do, even as he says that the corpse soldier theresia ISNT THERESIA. and reinhard is technically kind of right!! that was a corpse soldier!! she was both theresia (her last words to wilhelm are proof of this) and Not Theresia (she already died years ago!! this was a reanimated corpse!!).

its wilhelm and heinkel that misinterpret reinhard’s demeanor as him Not Caring. because he does care, but reinhard has always had an uncanny personality—likely partly because of trauma (remember how i said he shuts down a bit around his family? common trauma response) and partly because of reinhard’s endless divine protections giving him a very. Unique. perspective on everything. so reinhard has difficulty with connecting with others because of all of that. hes Really hard to read, especially in a complicated situation like this where its basically a lose-lose for everyone involved. wilhelm and heinkel are blinded by their grief and fear and anger and because reinhard 1. killed theresia, 2. said that that Wasnt Theresia, and 3. said he didnt regret killing theresia and 4. said that he did the right thing (which is probably because, again, what else could he do, theresia was going to kill heinkel and wilhelm)... yeah so wilhelm and heinkel read reinhard as being cold and unfeeling and callous so they both completely give up on reinhard in this moment. the coffin is. metaphorically and literally closed here, reinhard killing theresia (again. for the second time. if youre heinkel and wilhelm) was the very last nail.

and ultimately like. again, tappei gives us All the narrative tools to understand each member of the astrea family in this conflict. tappei also even notes the detail (iirc. in like a qna somewhere. if someone can find it or whatever please feel free to add!!) of theresia, on her death bed in arc 5, had nothing to say to reinhard and heinkel. its kind of. weird. when she makes SURE that wilhelm knows that she loves him but she doesnt even bother with her son and grandson - and heinkel does note that she looked at them "hatefully" (which. heinkel is an unreliable narrator, but its interesting for tappei to include that detail because heinkel also goes "she looked at us like That, who else could that be but mother?"). so uh. astrea family dynamics are complicated, have likely always been complicated even before everything went wrong with them, and tappei also gives us theresias full backstory in her pov in arc 5. AND he shows that the corpse soldier was still. Theresia. in the end. its extremely complicated. tappei takes the time to show that with every detail.

so anyway. yeah i feel like we're meant to sympathize with everyone in the astrea family. theyre all people with their own flaws, theyve all contributed in some way to the conflict whether they like it or not, they all have various degrees of blame, if you really want to go into whos the Most Guilty for all the dysfunction. even poor louanna contributed indirectly via falling into a coma T^T

but i dont think tappei means for us to like hate any of them. just because tappei Always shows how complicated the situation is. tappei is Always sympathetic to all astrea members as much as tappei also often calls them out for their flaws (heinkel is the most obvious example, tappei also does it with theresia and wilhelm a bit, and reinhard is shown to be a bit stilted in social situations with a habit of stomping on other peoples boundaries sometimes without realizing or because he thinks its for the other persons good, etc). and as much as i love making jokes at wilhelms expense because he did fuck up quite a Lot with his family (same with heinkel... and im a little sus of theresia but she Did care about heinkel in the past, we know that from her named chapter)...

like. i can understand where someone like wilhelm is coming from. do i hate him for lashing out at his five year old grandson and helping turn his son against his grandson? oh yeah. yeah. but i can Understand why he did it and i feel bad for him, which i think was more so tappei's goal here. so the audience can hate any of these characters if you so feel like it, but tappei means for us to deeply deeply get where they're coming from and why they did what they did. so maybe its more so that we're not supposed to hate these characters, maybe we're just supposed to hate Their Actions and wish that things didnt turn out that way. because it couldve been better at any turn - wilhelm couldve just not lashed out and blamed reinhard when he was five, heinkel couldve also pulled himself together, louanna didnt have to go into a coma, theresia didnt have to die twice, etc etc. but thats the point of it all i think. it turned for the worse but all we can do is try to think about How it turned out this way. and i pity all of them, really.

plus, reinhard, wilhelm, heinkel are 1000% getting some kind of further development with this, i'd say. and rezero is Repeatedly about forgiveness and growth, so yeah. i absolutely dont think we're supposed to fully hate any of them. if anything, im rooting for their growth before its. you know. Too Late. but yeah thats just my extremely long opinion/feelings on all of this, people are totally free to disagree of course :o !! hope that answers your question though!!

#rezero #re:zero #ask #reinhard van astrea #theresia van astrea #wilhelm van astrea #heinkel astrea #arc 5 spoilers

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artbyfinnbrown · 21 days

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Screenshots of my favourite moments of Re: Zero Ex2 (A.K.A "Wilhelm Trias is a stupid little edgelord: a compilation")

This was the moment were I realized "Oh. young Wilhelm is going to be like THAT is he." "I know people's names. Not because I care about them. It's just convenient" okay sure buddy. You didn't have to phrase it like that though.

The other funniest part of Ex2 is Roswaal being Sphinx's #1 hater. Every time they talk to each other Roswaal has nothing but spite and vitriol for Sphinx and Sphinx just doesn't care. Peak dynamic.

Shoutout to all the people who realized "The Steel Ax" was a stupid nickname and refused to let it catch on.

Wilhelm: (Hits her with the "Warrior's Glare") Theresia: (Just thinks he looks mean) HA gottem.

What did flowers ever do to you?

"I don't need friends". Shut up man friends are great. You'd know that if you acknowledged the fact that you had them.

Yeah how dare people ruin your concentration by caring for one another and expressing affection. He's not even doing this to be cool. He legitimately just thinks that he's living a better life than people who have love and friends and emotions. That's pretty sad.

"I'm just a sword! I don't care about friendship and loyalty!" he says, as he starts to care about friendship and loyalty.

WAIT I NEVER EVEN FOUND OUT WHAT SPHINX'S DEAL WAS! I know she's presumably a creation of echidna, but there is clearly something else going on. What was she researching? Why does she look like a Ryuzu clone, while clearly being something different? Why does Roswaal want her dead so bad? I need answers!

Ah shoot I was distracted by mocking Wilhelm for being edgy I forgot there were going to be emotions in this. She taught him how to care about things other than the sword, leading him away from violence, but he showed her a reason to value the sword, leading her towards violence. That's beautiful and sad and a little bit messed up.

Good for them. I'm sure that nothing will happen in the future that causes Wilhelm to regret not being able to say "I love you" to the woman he loves, reframing this moment as a tragic one. Surely not.

#re:zero #rezero #wilhelm van astrea #theresia van astrea

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