#xtianity really do be the cause of most of my problems | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

blackwoolncrown · 3 years

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Hm this is a long shot but do u have any readings on the topic of spirituality in organizing? Or spirituality by another name, but the behavior u are getting at ig. Growing up the closest religion I had at hand was Catholicism thru my grandma, and my mother was ‘spiritual’ but used it to confirm her own biases in a weird way. These made me wary of religion (well like a type of christianity and white co-option of spiritual practice, but I didn’t realize that growing up) but I definitely think in “religious” ways like u described, however because I haven’t considered myself a spiritual person, I’ve left it unexamined which I’m sure is leading to problems. Got into organizing last year with a prisoner support group and it would be nice to develop a way to critique/understand our approach to the work in these terms but wouldn’t know where to start.Thank you and if this isn’t something that can rlly be learned thru reading like I kinda expect, no worries and no need to answer this ask! Have a good day!

Hmm.. Nothing wrong with a long shot. I'm a believer in high aim.

So the thing with this is yeah, you're right, you can't really learn this through reading. Largely bc what you need is to unlearn something and partially because it's very difficult to unlearn something in the same medium or framework you learned it.

FIrst off though let me say congrats on actually, like, following that thread of self-reflection. It's incredibly important to have that level of self-awareness and perspective especially when your aim is compassion and social work- if we are not aware of ourselves we continue to do harm to others even when we intend otherwise.

You're definitely not alone in your position. Two main points:

1. This is actually sort of the first step in the Ancestral work I mentioned, something largely left out of mainstream western culture because aside from patron saints and black church traditions, ancestor veneration is largely absent from this culture specifically due to the practice having been persecuted by xtianity in other cultures and also because the traumas of war and colonization lead to people not wanting to go back and learn their histories or not knowing, or only knwing hugely inaccurate sensationalized versions of who their ancestors were. Asking yourself "What beliefs and behaviors did I inherit from my parents?....and where did they get theirs from?...And where did my grandparents get theirs? (and on all accounts how did the lives they lived affect this, and how does that relate to me today..?)" is the very beginning Ancestral Work. This is how you find out about deeper layers of yourself in order to decide what to do with them. But I don't wanna say more on this bc it's a whole huge thing.

2. And here is my second biggest gripe with xtianity: Aside from the whole persecuting and killing people thing, and the upholding a separation between self and spirit (so fucking dangerous), the fact that xtianity caused so much damage and trauma has been sufficient to cause a significant number of people to become avoidant of not just religion, not just spirituality, but even belief in general.

This has robbed humanity of so much and caused so much violence.. ugh but that's another rant. Anyway it's the source of this really ironic but common thread of people who consider themselves Atheist or anti-religion when they're really anti-xtian, but in doing so cut themselves off from meaning-making and deeply human forms of connection and self empowerment. And this has wrecked culture and mental health and so on and so on.

So anyway to come back around, I would, as ever, point you to the work being done around decolonization. In my experience, which began from an agnostic scientific-philosophical lens, moved through buddhist practice and philosophy for years and grew all the way into reclaimed indigenous animist practices of my lineages, I find that decolonization is the most efficient and accurate key path, because knowing what, specifically, was imposed upon and persecuted out of various cultures and why will tell you precisely where, culturally, you got your preconceived notions from and- very importantly- what other meaningful notions or worldviews preceded them.

It's one thing to say "well I don't wanna be religious like my family" it's another thing entirely to actually replace that empty space with informed, personally aligned meaning. Nature abhors a vaccum and that space DOES get filled with shit if you don't organize it yourself.

Happy life journey.

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religion-is-a-mental-illness · 3 years

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Is there some sort of database that has a catalogue of both Islam—based terror attacks and the MANY verses of the Quran that specifically call for Muslims to be violent towards non/ex—Muslims? The most recent high profile attack in France a week or so ago has sadly finally roped me into yet another conservation about violence and Islam with my Muslim friend.

Try here:

https://thereligionofpeace.com/

https://archive.wikiislam.net/wiki/Critical_Analysis:_Violence_in_Islam

https://archive.wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Apostasy

https://archive.wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Non-Muslims

Don’t forget that the quran is only the (supposed) revealed word of Allah. The hadith is separate “documentation” covering things about Muhammad’s life and his pronouncements and instructions. Which occupy the same standing as those of Allah.

“And whoso disobeyeth Allah and His messenger and transgresseth His limits, He will make him enter Fire, where he will dwell for ever; his will be a shameful doom.” - Quran 4:14

“He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah.” - Quran 4:80

The hadith are where most of Sharia comes from.

Some apologists will undoubtedly whine about “misrepresentation” by the above sites. But you don’t have to take the word of those sites alone. Each quote is referenced and you can verify yourself at sites such as these, which include directories of hadith as well as the quran.

https://quranx.com

http://quran.com

https://www.clearquran.com

Quranx.com can show 16 translations of the same verse simultaneously. This helps you figure out when the person you’re talking to is cherry-picking the least gross translation, as selectively as a Xtian cherry-picks bible verses, and when a translation has been carefully crafted to change the meaning and make it more palatable. Like using weasel words and injected qualifiers - often added in brackets, such as “beat them (lightly)” - excising the really bad stuff entirely as if nobody can notice that it’s not there any more, and generally reflecting the morality of the author, rather than the intent of Allah (which is of course to say, Muhammad).

As always, i would suggest you evaluate what you intend to gain from the conversation, whether you are both in agreement as to the point of it, and both agree to be intellectually honest. Otherwise, I suspect you will simply be frustrated and find it to be a waste of time. You cannot convince a believer of anything - they can only convince themselves. The only thing you can do is explain your position, why you hold it and demonstrate that it’s not held in ignorance, and is justified. Hopefully it is. (”Islam calls for and endorses violence” is a defensible rejection, “Muslims are violent people” is not.)

I should also point out that in some respects, what the quran or hadith do or don’t say is actually not especially relevant, except as with the case of Muhammad’s well-documented pedophilia, denial that this depiction exists at all. The problem, as with Xtianity and everything else, including Woke, is that the peaceful ones and the violent ones share the same book(s), the same prophets, priests and doctrine, and both are clear about what they are told to do.

The real argument isn’t between you and your friend, it’s between your friend and the lunatics who kill and destroy in the name of the same god, ideology or cause, based on the same mythology, with perfect faith, citing chapter and verse as they do so. The problem isn’t that you disagree with them, it’s that their fellow believers disagree with them.

#ask #islamic violence #islam #quran #hadith #ex muslim #ex muslims #apostasy #apostates #religion of peace #religion of violence #religion #religion is a mental illness

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keshetchai · 7 years

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hey! i saw ur post about human sacrifice/Christ as a sacrifice. just wanted to let you know basically it's taught among Christians that Christ had to pay the price for our sins & He alone was capable of doing that. As someone fully human as well as fully God, He was able to fulfill & forgive that debt that we owed God bc of our sin. If a master tells his servant not to kill any of the master's sheep, it is right for the servant to obey, but it is still within the master's right to kill a sheep.

2/2 I understand that this isn’t the teaching in Judaism and I’m not asking you to agree, just trying to shed some light on the Christian perspective! This is a question that gets asked a lot in Catholicsm (not sure about the other Christian denominations) and if u want to look further into it i know there’s solid theologins out there that have talked about it!!

Ah, maybe it wasn’t clear in how I wrote my post, but I am an ex-Catholic! I am a Jewish convert, but grew up Mexican-Catholic.

I looked into this kind of theology quite a bit while I was still Catholic, and found the principles and reasons given (like the ones you gave me) to be personally dissatisfying. I get that lots of people believe this, that it is part of Catholic (and Christian in general) belief, and so on, but uh, I guess basically I didn’t accept any of the statements that lead to that conclusion. I know the teaching, I just find it spiritual unfulfilling and “Begging the question.”

For those curious, this is also a good example of why I was not good at Catholicism™. The asker is right, these aren’t how things are viewed Jewishly (this is all Catholic/Christian theology), but also just in the context of reading the Christian/Catholic Old Testament, I felt I had a list of theological problems I could not solve to my own satisfaction. Because while there are significant differences between Torah and OT, some of the underlying leaps of…well, faith, remain.

Basically I happily admit this is (part of) the reason why Christian theology was not good for me, but may satisfy others. (Or rather, what spiritually satisfies you, does not satisfy me, and that’s all okay!)

For the sake of…I don’t know, a dual view, my response to this line of reasoning, I think, makes it obvious why I decided Catholicism wasn’t for me. ;) It also shows I deeply appreciated a Jewish attitude towards theological questions and biblical events, that is to say, “@hashem, what the heck???”

So ex-Catholic me had the following…issues (and I come from a long line of very argumentative bible readers, ahaha):

“had to pay the price for our sins“

Original sin is not a concept in Judaism and was not “known” to the writers of the Torah/Tanakh. And so by extension, original sin was not a Thing at the time Jesus would have been alive.

So therefore, which sins?

If it’s just “sins” in general, why does someone need to die to “pay the price”? (Remember Hellfire and Damnation also Does Not Exist in Judaism)

Why must a price be paid by someone else? In Judaism and in the Torah, the price of a mistake/sin/harmful act should be rectified by the person who did the thing personally. If a “sin” (and sin means something different in Judaism than it does in xtianity) is committed against another person, then to fix the problem you must essentially pay the appropriate damages (as in a court of law) or make things right between you and them, and “Repent”. If the “sin” or mistake is made against G-d, then we are told A.) a sacrificial offering based on the kind of act done is appropriate BUT B.) failing that, prayer is the appropriate course of action, and a sacrifice is never the only option:Hosea 14:3 Take words with yourselves and return to the Lord. Say, “You shall forgive all iniquity and teach us [the] good [way], and let us render [for] bulls [the offering of] our lips.In point of fact, Solomon, during the inauguration of the temple, tells us that if someone is not in Jerusalem (and therefore able to make a sacrifice), then they should simply pray:Kings I 8:46-4946 If Your people go out to battle against their enemy, by what way You send them, and pray to the Lord toward the city that You have chosen, and (toward) the house that I have built for Your name.45And you shall hear in heaven their prayer and supplication, and maintain their cause.46If they sin against You, for (there is) no man who does not sin, and You will be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, and their captors will carry them away captive to the land of the enemy, far or near.47And they shall bethink themselves in the land where they were carried captive, and repent, and make supplication to You in the land of their captors, saying, ‘We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness.’48And they shall return to You with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, who led them away captive, and pray to You toward their land, which You gave to their fathers, the city that You have chosen, and the house which I have built for Your Name.49And you shall hear their prayer and their supplication in heaven, Your dwelling place, and maintain their cause.And this will be enough for God.

What sins are exceptions to the rule that God will accept repentance through prayer and change of deed and action? (See also: God sending Jonah to have a community repent - and they do so only by prayer and fasting.)

Why are they exceptions? Why were these exceptions previously unknown before, and is that not a “Stumbling block before the blind?”

Why would God give us a debt we could not fulfill on our own?

Why does the master need to kill a sheep? For what purpose?

Why would “the master” declare killing men to be evil and wrong and banned, but then go and do it themselves?

Is that not hypocritical?

Does that hypocrisy not seem alarming? like if that was a test, then people who accepted the blood sacrifice of a man failed.

And shouldn’t we openly question and rebuke this change of the law, a very important and fundamental law to not sacrifice our children/sons? After all, Abraham rebukes God for threatening to kill everyone in Sidom and Gemorrah since he had promised not to do so after the Flood. Shouldn’t we, as humans, rebuke God for sacrificing his “son” in DIRECT disregard of his own command to not sacrifice children/humans in general?

Can we trust a God who would sacrifice their own son against their own law? (The lesson of Abraham’s near sacrifice might suggest No, you should not attempt to sacrifice your son, hence why an angel intervened. I also hold that Abraham misunderstood the instruction to “take up your son” as “sacrifice your son” - the words “take up” and “sacrifice” in hebrew sound the same!)

After all, Jesus said he did not come to replace the law, but to uphold it [Matthew 5:17]

Importantly, if Jesus was meant to uphold the law, then any sacrifice done outside the temple mount (as Jesus’s crucifixion most certainly was) is null and void, as sacrifices outside the mount are expressly forbidden and actually a grave sin.

Does that not nullify said sacrifice pretty dramatically?

[SIDE NOTE: God also very explicitly banned drinking blood at all, whatsoever, and yet Jesus says to drink his blood? what???]

If God is all-powerful and unending, why would God become a man and die, even temporarily? To what purpose?

God becoming a man takes away from his oneness attribute and quality. Trinitarian doctrine is the reasoning that god is one, except when god is three, which is also one.

“He alone was capable of doing that”

why?

Was God not capable?

Did God lose their all-powerful ability?

why (again) is an unrelated Son-of-God-figure the only one capable of redeeming people? (Did not God personally redeem the Israelites in Exodus?)

Is mankind not capable of atoning for our “sins” and righting our wrongs?

What could Jesus really do that God couldn’t, if they are indeed the same? (if they are the same, how is this still a singular God characteristic of monotheism?)

what was the point of making a non-human person the only one capable of solving and absolving very human problems? Does it really teach us anything except to be dependent and not worry about our personal responsibilities?

I could keep going, but these kinds of things are why my mom didn’t think it was wise for me to go to Sunday school, lest I get in trouble for arguing with a nun. lmao.

All of these questions “could” be answered, but they’re more or less rhetorical and I ultimately did not find myself satisfied with the answers I found in/from the Church and also found no person reason to believe in Jesus “saving” anything or anyone.

#ex-catholic things

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