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#yes I know spoilers yes I’ve never actually listen to the whole podcast
denimbex1986 · 7 months
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Lindy Kyzer: Hi, this is Lindy Kyzer with ClearanceJobs.com, and welcome to this episode of ClearedCast. Today I’m joined by longtime listener, first time guest, Eric Pecinovsky, who is our Vice President of Marketing. He’s actually been the VP of ClearanceJobs as long as I’ve been around, Eric, for the company. And it’s your first time being on the podcast though, so thank you for joining me today.
Eric Pecinovsky: Well, no, thank you because ultimately I never felt like I could contribute much to your podcast usually in a sphere that I do not feel like I have the expertise like you and your guests, but now when you’re diving into a little bit of cinema, I feel like I can contribute a little bit here.
Lindy Kyzer: Oh yeah, I should have introduced the topic first, but start with first things first, Eric, introducing you because you’re the most important part of this. But the reason we’re doing this podcast is because we’ve both been geeking out about Oppenheimer the movie. I finally watched it. You watched it quicker than I did. It did take a time investment of the three hours to find the time for the movie. I am not a cinema buff, so this is a good point, counterpoint for us. I am a bibliophile, but I don’t usually watch movies. I can tell you nothing about film. But you actually are both a security clearance aficionado because you’ve been with ClearanceJobs for a number of years and a movie buff. Correct?
Eric Pecinovsky: Correct.
Lindy Kyzer: You kept giving me a hard time about there not being spoilers because we know that the bomb goes off, but does this podcast have spoilers and is it possible to have spoilers in a historical movie? I would still think so. If you’re talking about things that happened in the film, do you not want to learn all about it before you watch it or in this case, because that the bomb goes off, it doesn’t matter? Let’s talk it. We need to lay the ground rules. Are there spoilers in this podcast? Can there be spoilers?
Eric Pecinovsky: Okay. My opinion, and I stick with my initial opinion, is there are no spoilers. The only spoiler that I think I would’ve had if I hadn’t learned about it upfront was something that you actually wrote about on the site, which is the risque scenes involving his mistress. That would’ve jumped off at me if I was watching the movie, I’m like, oh, I wasn’t ready expecting that. So that would probably the only thing that I would’ve not expected. In terms of spoilers, I obviously didn’t know some of the details. I knew the rough story about it. I knew kind of what happened with his security clearance and obviously the bomb and all that, but it was very at a high level,
Lindy Kyzer: I had no idea about his whole Red Scare losing his security clearance. My knowledge of Oppenheimer kind of stopped after he made the bomb, and I didn’t know about it until we had an article on the site about the movie coming out and his security clearance revocation, and that was like you said, months back. But I would say previously I history knowledge before, I did not know about the security clearance hearing portion of it, but it was very interesting because literally half of the movie was about his security clearance being revoked and that history. Did you know that prior to the article on ClearanceJobs?
Eric Pecinovsky: I did, actually. I knew that it was basically done, yes, like you said, from a Red Scare, a little bit of politics in there. We can dive into the security clearance part of this film if you’d like now, because I’ve got lots to say.
Lindy Kyzer: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Don’t wait for hot takes. Tell me now, Eric.
Eric Pecinovsky: Okay. Yes. From that standpoint, I found a couple things that jumped out at me. As I started thinking about this for our podcast, a couple things came out. One was you saw in the beginning where it was, I think General Groves was talking about he knew about Oppenheimer’s circles that he was in. A lot of it left-leaning, some of it communists right out. A lot of those ideas were pretty common in the 1930s. It wasn’t that obscure at all. And he was the one who initially, if you remember, even in the film, they kind of mentioned the fact that his clearance was dragging and dragging and he couldn’t get it approved, couldn’t get… And then finally what they assumed or what they pushed the narrative on the film was that Groves pushed it through. That he had a lot of sketchy background about who we circled with, but this was the man that he wanted. So he was going to just add a couple phone calls to people and got it through and over the opinion probably of low level security officers.
And I think we can actually apply that to today in that when you’re trying to get the best and brightest, you sometimes have to make exceptions. And that seems to be definitely the case around the Manhattan Project because what a lot of those scientists, not necessarily were communist members, but again, they definitely circled around those circles, they went to meetings that would be considered communist leaning. And a lot of that stuff was kind of saying, yes, that is an issue, but we have a greater project that we need to complete.
So I thought that was very interesting and can be applied to today’s world where you’ve got things around, for instance, I think the main thing that I know something that you write a lot about is marijuana. Some of the best tech folks, a lot of them prefer marijuana versus alcohol. And the question is that really the stance that you want to take? Yes or no? And if you do, you’re going to lose out a lot. Same with foreign entanglements as well, when you’re talking about people who want to be the best in terms of experts in foreign policy. Those people tend to have a lot of foreign entanglements by default. So it is something that you can definitely relate to today’s world.
Lindy Kyzer: Yeah, no, for sure. And I mean it ties into current events pretty tight, I would say when it comes to academia and the issues right now with obtaining a security clearance. And like you said, it’s applicable just because the security clearance process is not cut and dry around a lot of issues and political leanings are going to be one of them. And that’s where it’s super unfortunate with the revocation because it just kind of shows the changing perceptions around him and his own policies or what actually cost him a security clearance. So it’s like they needed his knowledge to build a bomb, and then once it was over, they no longer really agreed with his perspective, which probably was not really any different. And that was one of the things.
I thought the acting in the movie was fantastic. And again, I don’t actually know other films that these people are in, other than Matt Damon, obviously, Matt Damon. But I don’t know a lot of the… I’m not a cinema buff, but I thought every character was portrayed super well, and you saw how, like you said, Groves pushing it through and then Strauss wanting it to be removed. Individual folks could have a pretty significant influence just on one person’s ability to obtain a security clearance.
Eric Pecinovsky: Well, and like you said, when they finally flashed forward to when they were having the hearing, there was a couple of interesting parts. One, his background really never changed. I mean, he was the same person, really, at least was applied in the film and I think historically was documented that he was kind of going against the government policy of more bombs, bigger bombs, and we can’t stop. And he was kind of pushing back on that, and a lot of people did not really agree with that. Plus he had made just some enemies in the past as well. And then the Red Scare and that all kind of built up to the fact that we can get this guy removed from conversations that influence government policy.
Lindy Kyzer: One of my favorite parts of the film is how heavily they relied on the actual historical data. And it’s based on a biography that was a Pulitzer Prize winning biography of Oppenheimer, and it’s super interesting. But the fact that he was in that hearing room for something like 27 hours, they visually showed that very well, different people coming in and testifying. So I just think about, for me, it makes me feel very sad about the process. Now, I need Perry Russell Hunter to tell me that doesn’t happen anymore. And I actually know it does. It doesn’t happen anymore.
But we have due process around it now, and I think that’s a good sign of the way that they handled this at that time was awful. But to think about having intimate details of your life and having all of these character references show up, and it really was a weird confluence of a criminal hearing, but not criminal at all because it was just a policy procedural hearing. And again, I think they showed that really well, and I think people would be surprised to know that, I mean, that happened. That’s not how it should happen or how it happens today, but probably because of his role and his prominence and the way, again, it was very politically motivated to remove his eligibility. It was 27 hours and the film, they pulled a lot of dialogue straight from those hearings.
Eric Pecinovsky: And that is one thing that amazed me. I didn’t realize how quickly it happened, but within a year, the transcript was released to the public. He was under the assumption that this was a private hearing and everything was confidential and that only the people who would need to know would read these transcripts. And within a year it was released publicly. And so like you just said, his whole life was out there in these transcripts. And if the three-hour movie isn’t enough, or I’m guessing Lindy, the book is like 300 pages. I don’t know how long it is that you are reading.
Lindy Kyzer: 500 pages, Eric, I’m in it to win it. 500 pages.
Eric Pecinovsky: Okay, 500 pages. If that’s not enough for you, online, you can find all 27 hours of transcripts online and read question and answer, question and answer and probably take you, I don’t know, a few weeks or a few months or whatever to read all thousands and thousands of pages of transcripts.
Lindy Kyzer: And it was like a character assassination, that part of it does… it does make you very frustrated to watch just because he was brilliant and he made a significant contribution, regardless of how you feel about that. I have some friends who are like, “I don’t like the atomic bomb. I’m not going to see the movie.” I’m like, “Well, that’s…” I don’t think it’s like a atomic bomb film. I think you can still watch it, but whatever.
But regardless of how you felt about it or feel about his story, watching that and seeing the character assassination piece of it that happened, yeah, it was super painful to watch and to think about. And to know that again, that all should be covered by the Privacy Act theoretically, but the Red Scare was truly the wild wild west. So I feel like you do have to have a disclaimer here, Eric, this is not how the process is today. That ties into one of my, this is security clearance… ClearanceJobs.com. We like our security clearance professionals, but that ties into do you think this film is… I’ve seen several debates about this online. Do you think it’s good for national security? It’s certainly generating a ton of interest in the box office. Do you think it’s good for national security hiring? Or what does a film like this do for our industry?
Eric Pecinovsky: I think, actually, I’m going to give the lawyer answer of it depends on the way you look at it. On one hand, like you said, the way that he was treated would obviously push you off. But again, that was in the fifties, like you said, Red Scare. I mean, it was just a very different time. There weren’t due process a lot. There weren’t privacy standards around a lot of things. So it’s changed a lot.
But what I do think it did show, which we push a lot on ClearanceJobs, is the mission that you’re part of. And he was really, really committed to this project and knew that they had to be first over anybody else in the world to make this happen because they alluded to in the film with nuclear fission happening and the academic paper, it was just a matter of time for other scientists in other countries to put two and two together and it was going to happen, and it was just a matter of who was going to get there first. And that really drove him. And he was on, obviously, the cutting edge of a lot of science, was very influential and made a difference. And I think that can be applied to many positions within the cleared world.
Lindy Kyzer: I’m same, again, I’m in marketing, so I feel like there’s no such thing as bad press. I’m going to lean heavily into that mindset. And I do think watching the film, you get the notion of how the most brilliant minds came together to solve this big problem. I think the national security community is trying to make that same case today for what’s going on and struggling with the same problems. I just got off a call with NATO and the Five Eyes countries talking about information sharing and personnel sharing, and it just reminded me that we were having this conversation right after, because there is a lot of tie in there with saying, hey, what if you’re from another country or you have this knowledge, how do we share our best and brightest?
Because that was a big part of Oppenheimer’s issue that came up in the hearings too, is he had traveled internationally a lot. He had professionally interacted with people from these now hostile countries to the US. And so you pretty much have the same dynamic now. So what do you do with the person who has developed their institutional knowledge overseas and now comes back and literally has the exact knowledge set that you need, but you still have to find a way to vet them? So for me, it shows the importance of the mission. It shows also too the complexity because it is very difficult to figure out who is the Oppenheimer who you want to give a security clearance to and who has a lot of international entanglements, but still has a close allegiance or alliance to the US. And how do you figure out the Robert Hansons who are just going to steal your secrets for decades and you’re not going to know? It is a very difficult problem.
Eric Pecinovsky: I don’t have, like you said, I think it is a balance, and that goes back to the diversity or getting the best and the brightest and having to make exceptions is it’s always going to be a balance. And I don’t think anyone knows what the balance is. And like you said, it sometimes depends just on the person. The person on paper could look perfect and no foreign entanglements and lived a somewhat normal life of always in the US no foreign connections, no travel, et cetera. And then, like you said, turns out to be a Robert Hanson situation and for other reasons they commit espionage.
Lindy Kyzer: It’s a tough balancing act to pull for the personnel vetting program. But I think what you see is anytime you look at something and it’s politically motivated like this, I don’t know, I hope that today, we do better than this. And I think we do. I think we have due process around it. I also think sometimes we lack maybe the efficiency to quickly onboard all of the people that we need, but I do think we live with more transparency certainly than we did back then in the sense of you potentially, I would hope, wouldn’t see this happening.
Although again, a part of the reason that probably with Oppenheimer, I did like the dynamics between his wife that you had during the film, because she really wanted him to fight. I think his perspective was just that he wanted to keep, I don’t know if he had confidence in the process. I think it’s just personality comes into it with a lot of this, and he just let the cards fall where they were. And because he didn’t play the political game probably and lobby people to advocate for him, he ended up losing his security clearance. So yeah, I would like to think that that couldn’t happen today, although as I verbally processed it, I’m pretty sure it could if somebody was not willing to advocate for themselves.
Eric Pecinovsky: Yeah, I mean I think it mentioned a few times, I can’t remember if it was in the movie, it’s kind of blurring me. I mentioned to you, Lindy, that I watched a documentary after this, but the fact that he was a little bit naive, not a very good bureaucrat, sometimes opened his mouth and said things he probably shouldn’t have that made enemies and other instances like that. So I think he was a little naive to think that what he said meant nothing, when in fact it did. I did think of something that, again, not significant, but something that I did not know and I loved learning, which was how did we end up in Los Alamos?
Lindy Kyzer: He had land there. Right?
Eric Pecinovsky: Exactly. I never knew that. The fact that he had such a strong connection to New Mexico, like you said, had a ranch there, had always gone out there, loved to ride horses. I mean, think about that, father of the atomic bomb, and he also likes to ride horses in New Mexico. I didn’t realize that that’s how he pushed for it to be there because he loved being in the New Mexico desert. I had no clue that that was what happened.
Lindy Kyzer: When you think about it though, it was the perfect location. I mean, I think he was doing his research in Berkeley and in California at the time, and there were a lot of researchers that were based on these university campuses and in these major metropolitan areas. And he probably had an idea in his head, if we’re going to build a giant bomb, where can we actually test it and set it off? And the desert was the place. I found that very altruistic of him, because if I was him… because he had this longstanding, I mean he had owned land in that area for a long time. It was kind of his personal oasis. I wonder if he knew it was going to turn into a major military epicenter when he did that. I don’t know. Did your documentary address that? I haven’t got to that part of the book. I don’t know how he felt about.
Eric Pecinovsky: No, no, it didn’t address that.
Lindy Kyzer: I hope he got a good cash incentive. Not that he needed the money because he came from an affluent family, but it was very interesting that he used his own personal land and suggested it as the place where they ended up building this, and now it’s kind of a very significant historical and military area because of that random connection that he had.
Eric Pecinovsky: Do we want to touch on, I know this could be sensitive because I’m sure we do not like to partake in conspiracy theories, but do we want to mention the part where his mistress, Jean, where she had committed suicide and there seemed to have been a flash of a hand in that scene?
Lindy Kyzer: Oh yeah. See, this is what I would consider a spoiler, Eric.
Eric Pecinovsky: Oh, sorry.
Lindy Kyzer: Right? No, I mean, yeah, no, I think that’s interesting. And I have not gone down the rabbit trail. I mean, it seems like they documented clearly that she struggled with depression and she was a very depressed and this was just known. So I think the notion of why would somebody have killed her, Eric-
Eric Pecinovsky: Well, so-
Lindy Kyzer: … is the conspiracy theory.
Eric Pecinovsky: … I know. Hold on. I can save you going through the rabbit hole, Lindy, because I don’t know if you’ll be surprised or not, but I went down this rabbit hole and there was some interesting… again, it’s obviously coincidences at this point. Nothing obviously established. More so just you nod your head and you go, interesting. So do you remember Casey Affleck in his role, and he was the, at the time Army counterintelligence, he had done a brief interview with Oppenheimer talking about have you had any contacts or been approached? And that was part of the reason why he kind of got into additional trouble is because he said that his friends were approached but not him. And he had, I believe, testified against Oppenheimer. In any case, this same guy, and his name was Bash, he eventually turned up in the Church Committee during the 1970s, the CIA investigations, which was interesting to me about him being part of potentially some of the sketchy stuff that was going on in the sixties and fifties.
Lindy Kyzer: The CIA doesn’t kill people, Eric.
Eric Pecinovsky: I know.
Lindy Kyzer: Don’t tell me that. Yeah, I don’t know. I’m not a big conspiracy theory person, so I’m definitely more the depressed mix of medication and… I mean, the film did take a… I have not, again, read enough about it, so you probably out researched me on this to know what the details of her death were and how suspicious it was. Because I did get the takeaway that it was somewhat inconclusive, which I suppose could lend itself to conspiracy theories around it.
Eric Pecinovsky: I think your words were correct in that it was legitimate, but also kind of unique in the way that she did it. So again, possible, unique, no other evidence so you just kind of go on.
Lindy Kyzer: I’m going to say it wasn’t, but I don’t know. I’m going to dig into this one a little bit more, see who knew Oppenheimer, man, full of rabbit trails for us.
Eric Pecinovsky: But I agree with you what you initially said, which was why would she need to be killed anyway? I don’t really see a good argument as to why.
Lindy Kyzer: The issue around, I mean, so much of the research at that time, and that was like you saw how… I did appreciate how the film talked about, because so much of it ties into our current intelligence sharing apparatus. They have several times where they’re talking about how they were trying to build the atomic bomb with these stove-pipes of information and the key compartmentalization, we know that word all the time in the IC, and they kept talking about compartmentalization and Oppenheimer kept bulldozing through the compartmentalization and meeting with different people. And it just shows the way that the security clearance process is built and works typically flies directly in the face of innovation and research and advancement. And so we kind of always have a bit of a tension point. And I think that’s why now we have this big rise in OSINT, right? We want to do more with open source because then they can bulldoze through all of those compartmentalizations that you have in the IC.
But yeah, if you’re a security clearance nerd, I mean, I feel like you’re going to nerd out in so many parts of this film because if you’ve worked in the intelligence community at any point or followed it, you’re going to see so many things that are like, oh, that is. That’s how it’s done. That’s a pain point. And that’s actually how they did things differently to accomplish what they were trying to accomplish. And I thought the film did a good job of being true to the actual story and narrative around that.
Eric, so you’re a cinema guy. I’m not. How does this compare to other Christopher Nolan films? Can we talk to that a little bit? I don’t even know any other films that he has done.
Eric Pecinovsky: Well, you may know, you just may not realize you know. I would say for me personally, I am a little bit biased toward historical cinema. I would say that for me, this probably ranks in the top three. I would say I still love Dunkirk the most. And then it’s probably Interstellar and then Oppenheimer. Have you seen any of those, Lindy?
Lindy Kyzer: I’ve seen Interstellar, yes. I’ve not seen Dunkirk. I’ve heard of it. It’s on my list. I know. I just don’t watch… I’m not good at movies. I did see the Barbie movie though, which, have you seen the Barbie movie yet, Eric?
Eric Pecinovsky: I have not, no. Oh, the one thing that we didn’t address when it comes to this movie, I knew it was going to be good. I knew not only the reviews, but Christopher Nolan never puts out a really bad movie. He’s regarded as one of the best directors at this point in time. But I was still amazed at the subject matter that he had to use. And the fact that it was a three-hour movie, that it just, the beats came fast. You didn’t have time to space off. You know what I mean? It just kept coming at you and at you and at you, and again, for the subject matter. It’s not like there was car crashes or car chases or gunfights or firefights or anything like that. I never lost attention to the movie and the three hours flew by from me.
Lindy Kyzer: If the length of the film is holding you back, I think that absolutely should not. And I do think also too, I made an effort. I made an effort. I packed my ClearanceJobs tumbler with some wine to go, some emotional support wine, and I went by myself to watch it. Because I’m a mom and getting to the movie theater does not happen for me. And I knew I was going to miss it. Because that has happened before. I’m like, oh, I want to see this in the theater. It’s not for me. I made an effort to see it in the theater because it was a movie that was made for the theater. And I will say if Oppenheimer did anything, I feel like it showed, cinema does have a place, there are films that are worth going to the movies to see. I know a lot of friends who are like, “Oh, I’ll just wait and stream it later,” because that’s our default answer now. But I think this is one that, because of the content and the way he filmed it, he really made a good case for getting people back to the movie theater to watch a movie because it was an impressive film to actually watch in the theater.
Eric Pecinovsky: I agree.
Lindy Kyzer: So clearly Eric and I, I mean, what’s our star rating? Four or five stars? I give it the maximum number of stars, whatever our ranking is, highly recommend Oppenheimer.
Eric Pecinovsky: Yes. It would likely be the best or the top two or three best films of the year.
Lindy Kyzer: Got to be the best film of the year. I mean, I have to say, if anything comes close to topping it, I will be shocked. I thought it was good. I think it was good for our industry, for our community. I think any time we can convince people what’s going on in national security, even when it makes the government look bad, I think that is one of the true benefits. This is why we’re better than China because we learn from our mistakes because we can criticize ourselves. Because you can have a film like this, it’s like we did this thing that was terrible back in the 1950s. We’ve learned.
Eric Pecinovsky: I think, like I said, the mission and the excitement. And the other thing that you mentioned when you said better than other countries, it was a quick sentence or two, it was very in passing. But I think it was Oppenheimer, when they were initially talking, him and Groves were talking about how Germany has a 12 month headstart and he says, “No 18 month headstart.” And I think something to the effect of is Groves, “Well, how are we going to catch up? 18 months?” And he said, “Because,” he said, “Hitler doesn’t trust the Jews and the Jews are the best scientists in Germany.”
So there is something about keeping, again, diversity best and brightest. Anytime you’re excluding groups because of your views, it is a detriment to the advancement of what you’re trying to accomplish. I think that is one of the great things about America is that we are so diverse. We bring in immigrants every year. Some of them end up starting large companies, contributing huge roles into government, all sorts of things. And that’s something that Germany was not obviously willing to do.
Lindy Kyzer: Yeah, no, I mean, I think the strength of the teams that we can put together, our trust in our workforce, our alliances and partnerships, our diversity of thinking and willing to try new concepts and innovate. I do think the US, I hope always has that advantage. I think that the same one that they had back then is definitely the one that we have today. We talk a lot about the risks geopolitically because we have these major threat actors, but exactly what you said, we also have a lot of advantages.
Look at us, man. Go see Oppenheimer, it’ll give you renewed faith in America. Even though it’s super depressing, it’ll also make you optimistic, just for what Eric has said. And even Oppenheimer, he didn’t give up on the country too. A lot of people encouraged him to move and take his scientific brain elsewhere. He could have packed up and sold his wares, pulled a Snowden, gone to Russia or something. And he literally, that was a line that they had in the movie is, “I love this country damn it.” He could have gone somewhere else. He had made an investment in the US and he didn’t take his brilliant brain capacity somewhere else. So I thought that was great, too.
Eric and I say go see Oppenheimer.'
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prim-moth · 2 years
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Hey guess who’s losing their mind over taz b
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inawickedlittletown · 3 years
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Queerbaiting and Buddie
(word count: 1,900)
I keep saying that I don’t want to spend any more time on 9-1-1 meta or fic, but the events of this weekend made me open up a document where I had some unfinished meta and in light of the S4 finale airing tonight, I thought I might at least write this: 
“Queerbaiting is a marketing technique for fiction and entertainment in which creators hint at, but then do not actually depict, same-sex romance or other LGBTQ representation. They do so to attract a queer or straight ally audience with the suggestion of relationships or characters that appeal to them, while at the same time attempting to avoid alienating other consumers.” 
That is how Wikipedia defines queerbaiting. And I really feel like everyone needs to read that and then read it again and realize that what is happening on 9-1-1 with Buddie is NOT queerbaiting. 
I don’t want to go into the long history of queerbaiting because we would be here all day and anyone that wants to do some research should go and do so. There are a lot of resources out there. Use them. 
But the short of it is this: queerbaiting has a lot more to do with the way a show is promoted, with the way that anyone involved in the show talks about a queer ship, and with the show deliberately scripting scenes that hint at a relationship without any intention of following through. Expectations and wanting a queer ship to go canon and those expectations not being met do not alone equate to it being queerbaiting. 
For any of us that have been around a long time there are a lot of perfect examples and if you compare Buddie to any of them, they are very different. I’ll name a few:
Merlin/Arthur
John Watson/Sherlock
Emma Swan/Regina
Derek/Stiles
Castiel/Dean Winchester (though they did go canon...barely)
Lena/Kara
Buck and Eddie do not fit into that list. Which isn’t to say that someday they could belong there, but I just do not believe that they will even if Buddie never becomes canon. And this all lies in how Buddie as a ship has been treated both on screen and off. I’ll break it down by season. 
S2: 
Eddie is very clearly introduced as a new character, a straight Army veteran with a disabled kid and family drama. He and Buck have immediate chemistry. We can’t deny that, or deny that from that first episode there are immediate sparks. Unintended sparks, but sparks nevertheless. And it is easy to tell that no one on the production team expected that and the story reflects that. 
Yes a foundation for their friendship is formed and yet the season long story focuses on Eddie’s relationship with his estranged wife and Buck is dealing with his own growth after being left by Abby. Their friendship shines and their scenes are great but none of them suggest romance and there are actually a lot of episodes where Buck and Eddie barely interact in S2 aside from in the background or for small work related moments (this mostly happens after Shannon returns). 
S2 does give us the first acknowledgement from the powers that be aka Tim Minear that they know what the fans have seen. This is why the elf scene exists, but it exists in a space where it’s a nod to the fans and not meant to do much more than that. The other moment is during the call with the livestreamer. But S2, places them completely and without question on a strong friendship. 
S3: 
We see a lot more conflict for Buck and Eddie in this season and we see how close and important they are to each other. Those are the two main things. That can be read as friendship easily and it’s a season where both Buck and Eddie deal with their pasts and in one way or another start to get closure while their friendship remains intact. 
Yes there are some scenes that make us squint and go huh, wtf? (I’m looking at you kitchen scene), but narratively we also know that neither of these boys is ready for a real relationship with anyone, let alone each other. But we can bask in how close they are as well as how Christopher fits in into all of it. 
But in S3 we are also introduced to Ana and we see the return of Abby. We also get to see that Buck and Eddie have become closer than ever and that the lawsuit only serves to highlight the importance that they both feel about having the other available to them. I’ll also quickly mention that Eddie Begins worked hard to highlight Buck’s devotion to Eddie. 
S4: 
Without considering the events of the finale (I am avoiding spoilers and know nothing about it or the speculation), we’ve seen Buck and Eddie both grow and get further closure on their past. This season has paralleled them well and their friendship has not faltered, they’re as close as ever. 
The beginning of the season was heavily focused on Buck and we saw him grow as a person and begin to work on himself in a healthy way and we’ve seen Eddie be supportive of that. 
We also have Ana to consider and her relationship with Eddie as well as the return of Taylor and yet the appearance of these women has not changed the Buck and Eddie dynamic. And I find it fascinating that Eddie beginning to date Ana, is the thing that prompted Buck to start dating. The parallels are all over the place but it is the strength of the friendship and the way they care so deeply about each other that remains whether that becomes romantic is still to be seen, but it could still go either way.  
Off-screen by the end of S2, Tim Minear had already addressed Buddie by throwing in that elf scene in a wink/nudge fashion that said “I see you” and in the scene with the girl with the livestream with the comments. During S3 he tweeted about being frustrated by the fans demanding and being hostile and thinking that that would make him more likely to do what they want (I’m paraphrasing what I remember seeing). Tim has never once said that Buddie will happen or shut the door on the ship entirely, but he did say he did not want to engage in conversation about it because he doesn’t want to get into arguments with fans. 
Oliver has always been enthusiastic about Buddie and has even said that he would be perfectly fine with it happening both a while ago and more recently in promo for S4. Conscious of queerbaiting and not wanting to give fans false hope, he has specifically said that he does not know if it will or won’t happen and that he wouldn’t speak on that as he’s not the one making that decision. His support for it happening does not mean he has any sway one way or the other. He’s said this a few times and even wrote a letter to the effect to make it clear to fans that the last thing he wants is to disappoint someone due to something he’s said. 
All in all, it just isn’t a constructive environment for anyone working on the show to interact with fans on this topic because any time that they do, they get attacked by overly enthusiastic buddie shippers that in many ways are making everything worse. 
In all of the interviews from Tim that I’ve seen, he has always been very quick to hint at what was coming up on the show in a way that at times has been misleading on purpose. The number one thing that comes to mind is early in S4 where Buck was said to get a new woman in his life. Tim absolutely made it out to seem like it was a girlfriend while knowing fully well that it was a therapist. This is an excellent example of what promoting and hinting is actually like. No one from this show has done that in regards to Buddie. 
No one has gone out of their way to hint that it may happen in a way that excites the fans. And this is one of my main reasons for knowing that Buddie is not a queerbait. At no point in the life of the show so far has anyone used Buddie in a promotional way to bring in viewers. Because THAT was the whole point of queerbaiting in the past. 
It was a way that some showrunners found to bring in a lot of viewers when they needed to up their numbers in order to show networks they were worth keeping around. Someone figured out that LGBTQ people wanted to see themselves represented so much so that they would tune in to anything that promised an LGBTQ character in some fashion. It was a tactic that worked well in the landscape of tv where there was so little LGBTQ content on mainstream media that anyone wanting it would latch onto anything. And then they just wouldn’t deliver on those relationships or characters. In 2021, that is not the world we live in any longer. 
In today’s tv landscape there is so much to watch and so much to pick from and diversity has grown, it is celebrated. Queer characters are well represented as are queer relationships and queer stories. The times are different. A while back I was listening to a podcast (Bait: a queerbaiting podcast) and something I found interesting was how the hosts both agreed that in today’s tv landscape there is no more real queerbait and that we won’t easily find anything like the ships I mentioned above. I think I agree more with this than I expected to, because I do think that it exists in some spaces, but it definitely isn’t what it used to be. This is a good thing. 
Specific to 9-1-1, this is a show that has that diversity and that isn’t afraid of tackling that diversity and giving us interesting and nuanced perspectives and stories embracing that. We have characters of color, women in positions of power, a F/F relationship, two multi-racial relationships, a disabled character, other queer characters including a M/M relationship. There is so much in this show that embraces diversity and that embraces the reality of what the world looks like. To call it queerbait is to disrespect everything else that this show is and has done and the hard storylines that have been tackled that we would not have seen on tv ten years ago. 
And I get that Buddie would be another breakthrough. It would be a novel way to tell a queer story, and it would be amazing if it were to happen. The set up is there, but it isn’t fully realized, and Buck and Eddie can still be read as just friends if we take off the shipping goggles. But it also isn’t queerbait or likely to become queerbait and people have to stop calling it that. 
What Buddie resembles is one of the many unintended slow burn ships that have frustrated viewers in many forms across fandoms and we just have to go along for the ride and maybe it will happen. Or maybe it won’t. But if we know anything about relationships on tv, it is that a lot of the fun comes from the journey, even if the destination is good too. 
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meimae · 3 years
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Language Learning Through Immersion: One Year Japanese Update
11/03/2021
I did it, you guys! I’ve successfully reached my very first year of Japanese language immersion! I honestly thought that I would have given up by now, but this really has been a fun and ultimately rewarding endeavor.
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Studying the language has been at the back of my mind for years since elementary school, I just never really knew how to go about it before, and I always thought that I could learn it in a classroom setting someday. That someday for me was in two elective courses in university, and while those were fun as well, it did not give me the same gains that I have achieved in this past year.
It’s probably easier to quantify learning a language in a classroom setting, especially when going through a program to earn a language degree. Learning through immersion, however, I had to really consider what my goals should be on my own. Eventually, I stumbled upon an article saying that for an English speaker, Japanese was exceptionally difficult to learn and that at least 2,200 hours must be spent with the language to reach a certain level of proficiency. So I said to myself, “well okay internet, if you say so!”, and set that as my long term goal going forward.
Spoiler Alert: I did not hit that goal in my first year. I am not crazy and will never listen to Japanese in my sleep regardless of what Khatzumoto (the creator of All Japanese All the Time) says. 
I did, however, hit a total 1,226.65 active immersion hours in my first year, so I guess I’m still a bit nuts. That is 874.96 hours of active listening and 351.69 reading hours. I also did 270.59 hours of passive listening, also known as the time in the very beginning of my immersion where I was using Japanese subtitles (therefore not really concentrating on listening alone). That’s a cumulative 1,497.24 hours spent with Japanese. That’s more than halfway towards my goal! 
To further break that down for curious animanga fans out there, that’s 973 episodes from 109 anime, 765 episodes from 33 dramas, 7 movies, and 967 chapters from 107 volumes of manga (21 series). Here’s my anilist and mydramalist to see what I’ve read/watched.
During all this, I was also doing my daily Anki reps and now I have a 530 day SRS streak (includes the time prior starting immersion and only doing RTK and some vocabulary cards) and a total 8,857 sentence cards. I’ve been averaging 406 cards daily (because I’m trying to cure my leeches) and I spend about an hour per day doing reps and learning new cards. I don’t really track my time on Anki, but I do have a set timer that goes off after 1-1:30 hours.
What I haven’t touched upon at all is output. I have not gone out of my way to find a tutor or a language partner. There’s still plenty of input out there to immerse in before I even consider outputting.
Graphs, stats, and more thoughts:
Here's my current card count in my main deck (minus the cards in my new/learning queue and leeches I've been relearning which are in separate decks):
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That one day in 2019 where I did not do my cards because I was seriously doubting whether I can actually stick with language learning this time around will forever haunt and inspire me to keep going everyday.
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Workflow and Tips
You might be wondering, how do I have a lot of time? I started this whole endeavor in the middle of a pandemic, which eliminated the option of me going to a language school, and a slew of other things I were considering doing last year became impossible (and if anything, very scary to do in a pandemic). All I can say is that, things work out eventually if it is His will, and if I can learn a skill before everything properly settles back down again, then why not? 
I wake up at 5 in the morning everyday to either do my Anki reps or read until the time when I need to get up and I listen to compressed audio throughout the day. The biggest tip is to switch the time you spend watching/reading in your native language to your target language instead. Listen to a podcast during your commute, watch an episode during lunch break, read before going to bed, do your Anki reps in the bathroom if you have to. 
But, if you’re feeling burnt out, there is no reason for you to not take a break! I have been watching a lot of Among Us streams before bed, and I chat with my friends from time to time. Language learning is not a race.
More Stats
Here are a couple of grids of the kanji characters that I have encountered at least once in my immersion and how well I have answered them in my vocabulary/sentence cards.
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It's interesting that after almost 9000 words, I have yet to encounter every single character from the Remembering the Kanji 1 (RTK 1) book by James Heisig, which teaches you the most common use characters that are part of the 常用漢字. Which brings me to the question, was writing down every single character being taught in RTK worth it every time it came up in my reviews for the first 3-ish months I was reviewing them? Maybe, maybe not. It certainly removed my anxiety whenever looking at blocks of text in Japanese, but the longer I think about it, the more I feel I should have switched to Recognition RTK earlier. Still, being able to write in proper stroke order is cool I guess, and it also helps me when looking things up in the dictionary.
Here’s the same grid but in JLPT order:
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I clearly need to grind those N2 and N1 level cards! Speaking of which, I have apparently almost covered every single character that could possibly appear in the JLPT (except for the N1 which I have only covered half of) in just a year's time. If the JLPT word frequency lists I’m using are accurate, I have about 2,000 words more to go to to cover most vocabulary that could appear in the test. This makes the "10,000 sentences/words to fluency" argument a reasonable milestone to aim for for Japanese learners if said aim is only to pass the test. That said, 10,000 words is just that, a milestone. It's more akin to a comfortable level of comprehension, but not my own concept of fluency which is being able to read with ease, speak articulately, and write comfortably.
READING IMMERSION GRAPHS
My biggest motivation for tracking my stats is for the purpose of seeing whether my reading speed is improving over time. Reading speed is also easier to measure than listening comprehension which is kind of subjective, so I had a lot of fun making these. What I found is that for the first volume or chapter of whatever it is I’m reading, I always take the time to get used to the writing style of the author. My speed really improves whenever I keep reading the same topic over and over again. On the other hand and quite obviously, looking up many new words in a row and trying to parse sentences slows me down.
Manga: Reading Speed Progression per Volume
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I clearly love ちはやふる and I am not ashamed to admit it.
I need to start reading longer manga. When I do, I’ll probably split this graph into less than and greater than 20 volumes. Imagine if I start reading something ridiculously long as 名探偵コナン or ワンピース, these graphs will start breaching the bounds of time and space.
Novels: Time Spent Reading per Chapter
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#neverforget the time I read chapter six of Norwegian Wood for 9 hours when it took me less than half that time in English RIP. Also, my interest in Kitchen plummeted LOL. Still planning to finish it don’t worry. 
I also need to start branching away from manga and start reading more novels and light novels, too just so I can make more pretty graphs.
Visual Novels: Time Spent Reading and Daily Word Count
Also known as images that clearly show that I’ve already spent several days only reading the prologue of Island. I’m not sweating. 切那 needs to stop using words I don’t know in succession. More thoughts on this VN far into the future.
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Thoughts on Immersion
I can’t really say anything else other that that it works for me, and needless to say if you’re considering this method, remember that the SRS is your friend but immersion should be your one true love.
Prior to all this, I couldn’t even read a sample paragraph from Genki without being confused to my very soul. Yes, I know, it’s embarrassing, but that’s the truth. I was way more scared of failing my Japanese classes than my actual thesis for my bachelors degree, I kid you not. I would quite literally spend all my free time in university trying to understand grammar, memorize vocabulary, and answer my workbook exercises with little to no success. 
I tried so hard to get all the grammar “formulas” into my head for 1.5 years and it only brought me more confusion. I’m never going back to traditional classroom study for language learning, but I will still refer to grammar books when I need to, and not because I feel like I need to answer 4783342 different workbook exercises like my life depended on it.
I still can’t believe it, but with immersion this statement is actually true to a point, don’t try shadowing anime/or calling your boss anime language slurs, use your common sense:
study anime to understand Japanese > study Japanese to understand anime 
Future Goals/Plans
2,200 immersion hours was my initial goal, but honestly I feel like that number could be much higher. There’s still a lot of stuff I don’t understand (news, politics, sciences, etc.), so I’ll make attempts to cover more of those things in my immersion. 
I’ll continue reading more, because that’s a natural SRS in itself. Try to read longer manga, more novels, visual novels, and light novels, and maybe news articles. 
I’ll try to mine as much “JLPT vocab” as I can before making any attempts at taking the JLPT. I noticed that a lot of the words I know don’t appear in the JLPT word lists as much, even though they appear a lot in media/daily conversation. 
Continue mining all words I don’t know because all words are useful anyway. There is no such thing as useless words. I never really understood mining only “interesting words” or words that “pop up” in your immersion. As I said in my previous blog post, 美人局 is an interesting word and I certainly caught it being said in my immersion, but in the three languages I know, I wouldn’t know when I would be able to use such a word, as compared to something like ジャガイモ which is a significantly less interesting word, but is certainly useful to know. 
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I have managed to talk up a storm, but if you have any questions regarding my process or recommendations for new immersion material, please feel free to send an ask/reply to this post. I love hearing about other people’s language learning/immersion journeys. 
See you on my next post!
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katierosefun · 3 years
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so after one really big latte, a muffin, a run which resulted in a near accident with an oncoming car, and a shower in which i contemplated my own mortality, here’s my thoughts on the adorable me & au podcast, because babe wake up new hyperfixation dropped. very spoiler-y, i’m sorry in advance for how f*cking long this is, this might only have like two people reading this but i have many thoughts please listen to this podcast because it’s so cute and i listened to it all in about 2.5 hours? 
- firstly: the main character is super relatable. like, scary relatable. meet kate “acunningplan” cunningham, a gal about to enter her senior year of college and just kinda,,,lost. she works as a barista and very confused, very...stuck gal by day, fic writer (and still very stuck gal) by.........not barista hours. 
- honestly, i love kate. idk i’m about to enter my senior year of college, and bro i related so hard to her fears of “bro i can’t even think about next week without feeling overwhelmed”. she misses her best friend whitney a lot, who is currently on the other side of the country for an impressive internship. so that can be kinda lonely. 
- but fear not, kate has an escape, like so many other fic writers/fandom people: fanfic. this whole story references tumblr without actually naming tumblr (let’s be real....it’s tumblr, from the “notes” to “this stupid app keeps crashing”), and kate follows this tv show about werewolves and supernatural creatures. very gay. only problem is that there’s not a whole ton of people active in the fandom, since this show is relatively new. 
- however, in this small fandom, kate meets ella: otherwise known as “hella-enchanted”, who is another fic writer. 
- kate is very obsessed with the idea of alternate universes, and for that alone, i love her.
- okay, so even if you’ve never fallen in love with a person online/in fandom circles, i just wanna say that ella and kate’s interactions are still so super relatable. the shooting messages, the starting random conversations and getting a little thrill when you see someone liking your personal post or whatever. it’s very wholesome. 
- also, at the end of episode 1, kate goes on about how “yeah, fanfic is kinda odd, but it led me...to you” and it was so soft and gentle you just know your heart is gonna melt huh 
- at one point, kate decides to be vulnerable via vent post about something that came up on the show (and oh god yeah i feel...things. kate relates very hard to one character in the tv show she’s following, and tbh,,,yeah. i can’t quite word it right now, but i think anyone who feels kinda.....stuck? would relate.) 
- the “EXACTLY ONE PERSON ASKED FOR THIS ESSAY SO HERE IT IS” please
- also oh :’)))) kate talks about ella’s playlists and when i tell you i squeaked a little bit because oh hey--
- anyways lol yes can you relate to like,,,posting a vent post and forgetting to delete it and being mildly horrified (but also mildly touched) when someone actually responds?
- ella’s very sweet, just responds with “seems like one of my favorite fandom people needed a pick-me-up” and :’))) i would die for ella! (i mean, i would die for all the characters) 
- okay yes also all the bits where ella and kate scream at each other about fic. very relatable, very real, you can tell that the writers of this podcast really knew this feeling, and i just :’)))
- THE TWO DEBATE OVER TITLES,,,,,kate keeps sending in crack-y titles and also song lyrics, and ella comments on “well,,,i just read this whole wikipedia page, so i think i’ve lost the high ground”, so if y’all KNOW i started laughing at that 
- also LMAOOOO the moment when conversation diverts from fic and fandom to slightly more personal things! kate being like “oh,,,,,you have an actual job! like,,,you’re an actual adult and.....how’s that?” and then quickly rambling on via message “actually let me change the topic because that’s probably too personal”...
- okay so there’s this bit where ella drops the fact that she’s never read anne of green gables because “listen,,,,you have an ex-girlfriend who sang the anne of green gables musical all the time--” and kate’s “.......ex-girlfriend? you had an ex-girlfriend? girl--” (and BACKSPACING ALL OF THAT because “god i’m such a freak”) 
- much gay disaster
- so much gay disaster
- opportunity for kate and ella to meet irl comes up! at a fan convention! in toronto! (and kate lives in bc). kate’s best friend (remember, internship one?) invited kate over to toronto for this thing anyways, and then ella posts something about “heeeey i’m gonna be in the area so if anyone wants to meet up for the fan convention...” 
- let me just say......kate chucking her phone across the room because she freaked out about that. again. very cool, very nicely done, very relatable, etc. 
- ALSO,,,,i forget if this was one of kate or ella’s fics or if it was the actual tv show, but there’s this tidbit where the characters in the literal fandom has this conversation: 
“don’t waste your time.” 
“what?” 
“don’t waste your time on me.” 
and the way that reflects kate’s feelings-but-she’s-not-trying-to-think-about-it for ella please let me just die here
- okay, so kate does decide to message ella about the meet-up, and let me just tell you, kate’s inner monologue about the worst possibilities for ella’s responses: 
“1. no response. which is terrible. 
2. you find out you’re not wanted after all. :(((((
3. the most terrifying response of all.......” (an enthusiastic “yes i’m so glad we can meet up!!!”) 
- well, of course ella responds with #3. 
- gay disaster kate not knowing how to acknowledge her feelings for ella...she goes on this “you don��t wanna come across as....y’know because if they suspect that....y’know.....and like, i don’t....y’know--” oh my god kate 
- anyways, kate works at a coffeeshop, right? and her co-worker stewart (nonbinary pansexual co-worker! we love to see the rep!!) being like “oh yeah maybe you can bring over your friend!” and kate panicking because “ohhhhh i’m not too sure about that,,,,she’s,,,,,,,,,busy......” (ie. the awkward moment of having to explain that,,,,,,your online friend isn’t exactly someone you’ve met in real life,,,,,,,,and not sure exactly how to explain that so you just,,,,,,“ohhhh uhhh......y’know...............it’s really hard to.......get her out of.....work.....” 
- kate and ella video-chatting for the first time is very cute, very gay. very gay. 
- they swap “how’d you know you were gay / liked girls” stories :’))) 
- “that’s a cute story!” “you’re a cute story” [awkward silence] “please let me hide under the desk now” (have i mentioned that kate’s  a disaster? i love her, but you’re a disaster. we need to be best friends.)
- kate.....describing herself as “irl fanfic disaster waiting to happen” and the whole “i didn’t know we were actually dating until she asked if she could kiss me” lmaoooooooooo (but okay yes this is also a mood? like,,,,,,idk something about heteronormative standards so like,,,,,it’s so stupidly hard to figure out if a girl is flirting with you or if they’re just being nice i am glad kate’s such a disaster) 
- in other news: kate’s “how tf do i write a kiss scene i don’t like the word lips ughhhhHHHHH” (yeah, mood kate) 
- lmao stewart (kate’s co-worker!) just chilling with kate and being like “oh yeah i figured you had a girlfriend? the one you’re talking about? ella?” and kate blanking because “wait you thought ella was my girlfriend? she’s not....uhhh....” and then later drinking with stewart and rambling about ella and panicking because “what if she realizes i can’t talk about anything except this tv show what if she thinks i laugh too loud what if i have horrific body odor what if she realizes i have NOTHING to say what if our meeting goes SO terribly that i need to deactivate and change my name just so i could like her posts at 3 am” and then her small “please forget i said any of that” 
- oh kate :(((( 
- kate :((((((
- k a t e :(((((((((((((((((((
- anyways, kate does go to toronto. 
- meets ella. 
- very cute. 
- ella...........very gay. they go into a coffeeshop and kate doesn’t know what to do. 
- okay but what’s hilarious is that ella,,,,,seems so cool and suave and i too would be kind of intimidated by her but then these two idiots really talk about writing kissing scenes and the build-up and ella’s voice gets all,,,,,,suggestive and there’s this.....awkward gay silence between the two oh my GOD they’re both IDIOTS 
- also okay yes kate and whitney, a irl friend, having a heart-to-heart. good. we love that. also, whitney being like “I MISSED YOU!!! YOU IDIOT!!!! and i’m glad you have a new friend, and you’re happy, but I MISSED YOU!!! I HATE THIS CITY AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT I’M DOING!!!” (whitney is also very relatable. ily whitney.) 
- they’re so cute. they hug, and it’s sweet :’)) also, then kate says in a stupidly small voice “i think i’m....kinda in love with [ella]?” and whitney being best supportive friend-- 
- OKAY so we finally get an episode of ella’s perspective 
- listen, you’re gonna think ella’s this cool, suave person who has all her own gayness put together (i mean, she kinda knew since she was 9 or 10 years old? she’s had a girlfriend? she seems like she has her life together? she’s waiting to get into grad school? she has a job? she just seems....cool and knows what she’s doing). 
- but then you realize. ella is just as much a pining mess. (her bullet point list/schedule in her head is so relatable. as someone who uses her notes and reminders app religiously, that was just :’))) 
- ella: reasons why this is not a date. and then....kate sends a message. (ella: reason why this....might be a date....kate keeps saying stuff like...that.) 
- kate rehearsing how to tell ella that she maybe kinda likes her? very cute. (”you know the feeling in your chest when....uh, you know when you feel like you have a frog in your stomach--oh god not the frog NOT the frog”) 
- the love confession is very cute, and also very relatable. “i like you a lot” “i like you too!” “no i mean,,,,like i like you. wait. which like do you mean? wait that’s not english. uh. what did you say?” 
- kate’s “I HAD A WHOLE DRAMATIC FANFIC CONFESSION PLANNED OUT” 
- kate and ella just spilling everything made me :’))) 
- “i like how your brain works” “i made so many posts hoping that you would just talk to me” “you always make me laugh” “you just make me feel...better” “you make me smile” 
- “this whole summer you’ve been making me smile and i guess it kind of freaked me out? ...i don’t know where my life is going but if i have a choice, i want to go in any direction you’re going because you are cute and smart and amazing and i like you a lot, ella. like that. so yeah. that’s what i was thinking i’d say.” 
- i essentially explaine dthe whole plot but 
- i love this podcast a lot
- it was very sweet
- and very cute
- very wlw 
- i don’t even mind that i almost got hit by a car while i was running and listening to this it was worth it 
- idk. just like. anyone who’s ever read or written fic or just like...not necessarily fallen in love with another person? but at least relating to that feeling of “oh god i am not qualified to talk to this person” and “oh god what if they realize i’m actually,,,,a loser” and “oh god wait how to friend” can probably hit a lot of people
- but that said. the romance was very cute, very sweet, makes me :’))) 
- okay i’ll stop talking now but i just. it’s very cute, very relatable, i wish we had a season 2 but i think it’s a limited series. (but they’re living rent free in my head! forever!)
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heartofether · 3 years
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The Vast & Starlit Special: Part One - The Scandals of Atticus Ashfield TRANSCRIPT
[You can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts, or go to our “Listen” page if you’re on desktop.]
VAL
Hey, Val here. Just wanted to do a quick little introduction for our three-part Vast & Starlit special. This is going to be our last little bit of bonus content before season two officially begins on August 13th. We talk about this in the episode, but if you would like to find more information about the game we’re playing, you can find a link in the episode description. Thank you so much for all of the support, and enjoy our Vast & Starlit special!
[MUSIC PLAYS FOR A FEW SECONDS BEFORE SLOWLY FADING OUT.]
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Well, that went well. It’ll be fine.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] All is well.
LUKA
Everything is okay.
JESSE
[OVERLAPPING, IN A BRITISH ACCENT] Alright.
LUKA
Alright, so I guess, let’s get into it!
VAL
Cheers!
LUKA
Should we introduce ourselves?
JESSE
I feel like we should.
VAL
I think that’s probably good.
LUKA
It’s weird to like, talk, and be like, “Oh, hey besties.”
JESSE
“Hey.”
[LOTS OF UNCLEAR, OVERLAPPING CHATTER AND STUTTERING FOR A MOMENT.]
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] “Greetings, besties.”
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Uh, a lot of times, what I do think is funny is we’ll, like, do bonus content, and then say spoilers, and Val will just beep it out in recording. So I was going to introduce myself and the character I play, and I do think you guys can still do that.
LAUREN
Okay.
VAL
Yeah, and then I’ll just censor it out. It’ll be like, “Hi, I play—”
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Because it’s a funny joke to me.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Val, if you—I don’t know if you want to start.
VAL
Um, yeah, I can start. My name is Val, I’m the writer and producer of The Heart of Ether. I also voice Rosemary Quinn. What else are we saying about ourselves? Is this just—do we wanna throw in a fun fact—?
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Um, I would just—sure, if you want.
VAL
[LAUGHING] Oh, I don’t have any fun facts, so.
Everything I own is mushroom-themed. Because, according to my parents, that’s my only interest.
LUKA
They’re not wrong.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Um, hello! I am Luka Miller. I play Irene Gray. I did not prepare a fun fact, but I guess I will say that Irene’s Instagram fun fact is a personal attack on me.
[LAUGHTER.]
JES
Oh.
LAUREN
Oh? Okay.
LUKA
I don’t—it wasn’t intentional, but it is. [THEY LAUGH.]
We have two new guests!
[A FEW SECONDS OF EVERYONE INTERMITTENTLY GOING “OOH!” IN INTERESTED TONES, THEN LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Jes, would you like to go first?
JESSE
[STUTTERING] Alright, okay. Uh, well, I’m Jesse Smith. I played Dr. Michaels in season one, and I will be playing [CENSORED BEEP]. And my fun fact, [A BEAT.] I’m currently dressed like a pirate.
VAL
Jes is the only one who dressed up for this. I didn’t—I didn’t know we were dressing up for today.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
LAUREN
[STUTTERING] I wish—I didn’t commit to the bit. That’s hard.
VAL
It’s okay.
LAUREN
Um, well, I guess that leaves me! Hi, I’m Lauren Tucker. I was not on season one of The Heart of Ether, but I will be playing [CENSORED BEEP] in season two.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
LAUREN
Big fan of the show, really, that’s [STUTTERING] that’s my fun fact, actually, is that I am the number one Heart of Ether stan. And, I get typecast as [CENSORED BEEP.] And I love it, so.
[LAUGHTER, THEN OVERLAPPING, UNCLEAR TALKING FOR A SECOND.]
LAUREN
You can tell I’ve never done, like, non-scripted for audio before, so this should be interesting.
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Yeah.
VAL
Very fun.
LUKA
Yeah, this will be very interesting. Very excited.
[IN A BRITISH ACCENT] So, I suppose I will lead us—oh no, it’s coming out.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
I was going to try really hard not to default into, like, the bad British accent.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] The Incident Report, it’s already happening.
[MORE LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Okay, well, I will introduce the game we are playing, I suppose.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] Cheers!
LUKA
So, today we are playing Vast & Starlit by Epidiah Ravachol, I hope that I said that right. Okay, um, basically, we are all escaped convicts, and we’ve stolen this ship.
LAUREN
Oh. Wild.
JESSE
Oh, we stole the ship?
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER AND CHATTER.]
LAUREN
Interesting.
JESSE
I thought this was a prison.
VAL
We were in prison.
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] No no no, we’re runnin’ away from prison!
VAL
Yeah.
LUKA
So we have all done crime.
JESSE
Okay.
LAUREN
Oh, that works perfectly well.
LUKA
Yes. So, this is mostly an improv-based game. We all have made characters. And the other thing is there—[STUTTERING] I am taking on the role of “GM.” That’s not a very strict role.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
I am here to move the story along. I also have a character. Very excited about it. Um, but I guess we can just kind of get into introducing our characters first, and we have a few questions that we have to ask each other. And then we get to design our ship a little bit. And then we will get going, and we will end up playing out some scenes together until the vibes signal that we are done.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Uh, so I don’t know who wants to introduce their character first.
VAL
Do you wanna go first, Luka? Just to give an example?
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] I can.
VAL
[STUTTERING] ‘Cause you know the most about this game.
LUKA
Also, we can do questions as we introduce our characters, so I guess I can go over that first.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] Okay.
LUKA
And then I can go first, and we can just go with me as an example. So, we have character questions we get to ask each other after we have been introduced. One of them needs to be off of this list. I’m just going to say it, and if you need a reminder, I’ll say it again. But, we have to ask each other at least one of these three: “What are you willing to do to be captain?”, “How would we be better off if you led?”, and “What do we lose by not listening to you?”
However, the other four questions can be anything.
LAUREN
Anything?
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] They are just—yes, anything.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Yes, anything. Anything about your character. And like, I’ll say this: I’ll give you my description, you can be like, “Where’d you get that scar?” And I’ll have to answer you.
LAUREN
Oh, I’m so excited.
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] You get to choose things for me.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
So, I guess I will introduce my character, and we will go through the first round of questions.
So, my character is named Atticus Ashfield. [THEN, QUIETER] We don’t need to get into it. I understand they sound like X-character that is unreleased from Micro-Cosmos. We don’t need to talk about it.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Um, so, basically, Atticus Ashfield had a nice, nice, comfy radio career. You know, they’re chilling, they’re chilling. But then one day, they got a little too enthusiastic doing this bit about setting off fireworks in a library, and they did get arrested. ‘Cause people were like, “Oh, maybe—this doesn’t sound like someone doing a bit. This sounds like someone who’s planning to set off fireworks in the most treasured library on this planet.” So they were preemptively arrested.
Um, some more fun facts about them. I don’t actually remember what the thought process behind this was, but I’m gonna read it off the document. It says that they are a fish descendant, and they look like Gill from Monster High, but green and without the helmet.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
I don’t remember writing that, but I do think it’s important.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] Uh-huh?
LUKA
So. Yeah.
VAL
Yeah. Alright, um.
LUKA
I guess we can go in a circle.
[LAUGHTER.]
VAL
Alright, um, what are the mandatory questions again?
LUKA
One of them has to be, “What are you willing to do to be captain?”, “How would we be better off if you led?”, or “What do we lose by not listening to you?”
VAL
Okay, I’ll go—I’ll go first. Um, what do we lose by not listening to you?
LUKA
Oh, should I respond in like, the weird voice I’m gonna do?
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] Yes.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] Yeah.
LUKA
Yeah, why not?
ATTICUS
[WITH AN ENERGETIC SPEAKING VOICE] Well I mean, honestly, probably not a whole lot, but I am charismatic, so you’ll lose a little bit of entertainment.
VAL
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] It sounds like Will Wood.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Thank you. I do my best.
JESSE
[OVERLAPPING] Okay, well, what happened to the orphans?
[LAUGHTER.]
ATTICUS
[IRRITATED] I did a good solid report on those, and no one needs to know what happened afterwards. What I do in my spare time is my business.
[LAUGHTER.]
JESSE
The blank stare.
[MORE LAUGHTER.]
LAUREN
Question, um, okay here we go- how am I supposed to— [SHE LAUGHS.] How am I supposed to follow that up?
Um, look, they just wanna know where the body’s buried. Can you please tell us?
[LAUGHTER.]
LAUREN
The family wants to know.
ATTICUS
[OVERLAPPING] I just—hey, listen. I just told this other person that what I do in my spare time is my business, and they’re orphans! What family?
[LAUGHTER, CRIES?]
LAUREN
Okay!
VAL
We’ve already gotten into murder, and I don’t think that’s the best place to start—
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] We’ve already gotten into—
LUKA
Of course. It happens.
Okay, so that’s three questions. We’re gonna do two more.
VAL
Um, can you explain your whole fashion...thing, you have going on?
ATTICUS
Oh, I call this, um, revival of the 2014 Tumblr era from uh, Terran Society.
[LAUGHTER.]
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] No.
VAL
So true.
ATTICUS
Do you like my shoelaces?
LAUREN & VAL
No.
ATTICUS
Why not?
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] I don’t— [SHE SIGHS.]
ATTICUS
Okay.
LUKA
One more.
[LAUGHTER.]
VAL
Jes, it’s on you.
JESSE
What do you have to say about the kin list scandal?
[LAUGHTER.]
ATTICUS
I don’t like being called an apologist, okay?
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER.]
ATTICUS
[CONT.] But if I see one more person—one more person—say that I— [THEN, IN A HUSHED TONE] That I kin from alpha-beta-omega fics, I’m going to snap.
[LAUGHTER.]
ATTICUS
It was a one-time thing.
[HORRIFIED BEAT OF SILENCE.]
VAL
We’ve set a precedent for the rest of this game, now.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING, STUTTERING] I—there’s so many layers here.
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] So you have—I had, like, a quirky little radio host coming into this, but you have redefined their entire personality, which is exactly what I was hoping would happen.
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Um.
LAUREN
Uh huh. Yeah.
LUKA
Okay, so. That was five, who wants to go next?
VAL
Um, Jes and Lauren, your characters are like connected, right?
LAUREN
Yeah.
LUKA
That’s about to get absolutely destroyed. [LAUGHTER]
VAL
Okay, I’ll go, I’ll go next then and then we can, we can do that in a bit, um. Right, okay. I’m gonna have to come up with a character voice on the spot, I should’ve thought of this in advance, but-
LUKA
Well, apparently mine was just Will Wood, so-
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Uh huh.
VAL
I mean, radio host, Life in the World to Come, that’s fitting. Um anyways. Uh, my character’s name is Honey Comberbatch. Um-
LUKA
[STRAINED] Say it one more time?
VAL
Honey Comberbatch. It’s like Cumberbatch but it’s comb like honeycomb.
LUKA
Mmhmm.
VAL
Um- and basically to sum it up, um, when her and her wife got divorced, she was very upset about it and she knew her wife was a big advocate of Save the Bees because her wife was like a bee-hybrid-person kind of thing, it’s like- it’s a weird thing. Anyways- her wife was a big advocate of Save the Bees. It got lost in translation to “Legalize Bees.” And Honey- Honey Comberbatch got so enthusiastic about it that A: they were being a public disturbance, but the main thing they got arrested for was they burned down a honey shipment plant. Cause they thought they were freeing the bees from-from their labor, but no, they just- they just burnt down a bunch of trucks.
[LAUGHTER AND A FEW UNINTELLIGIBLE COMMENTS]
LAUREN
I love Bee Movie.
VAL
[LAUGHING] Yep. Yeah that’s basically what it is. Um. Woman gets divorced, um, burns down a honey shipment plant. Now she’s here.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] That’s what happens in Bee Movie last time I checked.
LUKA
Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
VAL
Exactly.
LUKA
Um… Okay.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] Alright. I think I am gonna have to go with the British accent for this character also cause Comberbatch- and Cumberbatch.
LUKA
Mhmm.
LAUREN
There’s a lot of Tumblr stuff happening um-
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] We have Benedict Cumberbatch-
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] It wasn’t intentional-
VAL
We have um, shoelaces.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
[STRAINED] Shoelaces?
LUKA
I have so many regrets already.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Certain things that are just unspeakable, um, you know.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] This was a great idea. Alright.
LUKA
Sooo, let’s just start with questions. Is it Jes? I don’t know, we don’t have to go in an order.
JESSE
Sorry my Wifi is so bad so you guys keep cutting out but- oh, okay, um. What would you be willing to do to become captain of the ship?
HONEY
I mean, we already know I’m experienced with fire, don’t we. I mean, I’m willing to do it again.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
I also like that we’ve already set a precedent for two semi-arsonists in the crew. It’s very fun.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
The Daniel Jacobi kinnies: they did not come to play this time.
VAL
I don’t think Honey is a “semi-arsonist,” she burned down a honey shipment.
[OVERLAPPING LAUGHTER]
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Atticus was going to be an arsonist and then they got arrested. Jacobi’s on Atticuss’s kin list actually. That was the scandal.
LAUREN
Hh… Oh.
VAL
That was the scandal.
LUKA
Okay, but I think Lauren you’re next?
LAUREN
Yeah I was gonna ask why you um threw the priceless wedding ring into the ocean.
LUKA
[IN THE PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED TERRIBLE BRITISH ACCENT] Someone just finished watching an episode of Hannibal, I see.
[QUIET LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
I was thinking about Titanic and- but okay.
LUKA
Oh.
LAUREN
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] But I know which one you’re talking about.
[MORE LAUGHING]
HONEY
You know, after she left me, you know I was just… I was just so heartbroken, you know? I just- I just did it without thinking. I mean I tried to swim after it, I mean I regretted it of course, but you know. Then I ended up almost drowning and it was a whole thing. You know I’m good with fire, not water.
[BRIEF LAGHTER]
LUKA
Why is your hair that color?
HONEY
Sometimes, you know, interesting things happen when you do a home dye. Sometimes you’re hoping to get sort of, um, sort of a purple-pink ombre and instead you get more of a color that hasn’t been named yet and you think it’s from another planet. You know sometimes you order from a brand you never heard of, um, with no reviews, and sometimes it doesn’t turn out that well.
[LAUGHTER]
JESSE
Alright. Um. Who took the kids.
HONEY
[SADLY] She did.
LAUREN
Ahhhh.
HONEY
Been asking to see them for um, for a couple months now. But she always says they’re busy. Busy with school. Um, if you’re hearing this, please. I’ve been paying child support, I’ve been, just please. Next question.
LAUREN
So-
VAL
This is the last one, right?
LUKA
Yeah.
LAUREN
Mhmm. But the pressure’s on. Uh… I mean you hate to ask, but like the bee to humanoid makeup of the kids… has that been interfering in any way?
[LAUGHTER]
HONEY
I mean… Our- our kids have special needs, special dietary needs. You know, we make do. I mean, it’s pretty common on her home planet, so she knew what to do. Maybe that’s why she got the kids, I don’t know. [DEFENSIVE] I know how to do it too, I was there when they were born. I know how to feed them, just as well. Even if I don't have bee parts.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Ahh, man.
VAL
Anyways, I’m glad that’s over.
LUKA
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] Okay so which of you wants to go first?
JESSE
Okay I’ll go, I’ll go, I’ll go. So I’m playing Lord Jensen Jarvis Aloisias Augustine Maximillian Rupert Edmund Cedric von Marius Desmond Constantine Remington III.
LUKA
Okay what was the first name?
JESSE
Lord Jensen Jarvis Aloisias Augustine Maximillian Rupert Edmund Cedric.
[DEAD SILENCE]
LUKA
Jensen.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
Lord. I’ll give you a ‘lord’.
JESSE
Um, and so-
LAUREN
I can’t say the words, I don’t wanna get copyrighted cause I was about to launch into like…
JESSE
Um, so I was a prince at this really big, you know, kingdom, but unfortunately my parents did kick me out, um, because I didn’t take my tea the way they like it, so. Um, they kicked me out and I became a pirate, uh, and you know it was all good you know being a pirate- everyone loves being a pirate- until I tried to uh pickpocket this beautiful woman and she had no money. And so we just kinda, we kept talking and you know one thing led to another and now we’ve been married about twenty-three times. And, um, the reason I’m here is because I want to break so many laws. And the specific reason this time was I was arrested for un-bounce-ifying all of the pickles in Con-nect-icut-26. Um, but the thing is they arrested me while I was doing acrobatics on a bike in Ill-noise-42. So, you know, uh, it is what it is. I try- I try my hardest.
LUKA
Mhmm.
VAL
Alright. So should I start again? Questions?
LUKA
Um, I dunno the order I think Lauren is next. Yes.
LAUREN
I’m just trying to remember what the question was that we haven’t had yet from the list?
LUKA
Uh, we haven’t had: How would we be better off if you led?
LAUREN
So how would we be better off if you led?
JENSEN
Um, well every- everybody wants a sexy captain.
[LAUREN LAUGHING]
JENSEN
You- advertisement. Advertisement. It’s all about advertisement these days. Monetization.
LUKA
Oh, yeah. Okay, um. So I noticed, uh, the way you said an interesting name. Could you pronounce- this is a terrible question but I just need to hear it so I’m gonna say it and I think it will say a lot about you as a person. How do you pronounce the phrase: O-H-I-O?
JENSEN
O-ee-o.
LUKA
Mhmm. Mm. Mhm. Okay. Good. Got it.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] Stick the landing. Uh huh.
VAL
I like to think that like in the galaxy they’re from this is like a big- this is like our version of like “gif or jif.” Like it’s a big thing like everyone says it different.
LUKA
Well I’m thinking about how we’ve been making Cecil Palmer jokes about umm… throughout this recording.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING] Oh yeah.
LUKA
And very specifically, Jes chose to play a character who can’t say Connecticut. Which I think is really funny. Um, but anyways, moving right along.
VAL
What was the reason for your last divorce?
JENSEN
Well, you know, sometimes it- it’s very difficult to find a common ground when your wife can’t get past the fact that you like to drink Cherry Blossom Body Spray. Um, so.
[LAUGHTER AND HORRIFIED GASPS]
JENSEN
Things happen sometimes. It was very hard for both of us.
VAL
Mhmm. I imagine.
LAUREN
[STRAINED] Uh huh. [LAUGHTER] Um, why specifically, uh, Cherry Blossom body spray and have you managed to overcome that since remarrying?
JENSEN
No. Cherry Blossom body spray has a way of coating the throat- the orifices in a way- [LOSING IT SLIGHTLY] like no other. I do also, sometimes, drink Peach body spray and Cucumber perfume. It varies day to day.
LAUREN
Uh huh.
VAL
I see.
LUKA
Okay. [THEY CLEAR THEIR THROAT] Uh, I guess this is the last one. What is your favorite part about your hat?
JENSEN
Well, I really, I really enjoy the raccoons that live underneath it.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
You brought raccoons with you to prison because you stuffed them under your hat? They’ve just been chilling.
JENSEN
I can introduce you to them if you want.
LUKA
Oh, please! Please do.
VAL
[OVERLAPPING]Yes.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] Please.
JENSEN
Alright. Well, um, this. This is an audio medium. This one is called Jeremy, and he really loves bodily fluids. Ah-.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Oh?
JENSEN
This one- this one is called Vivian and she really enjoys the movie Ratatouille made by Disney and Pixar.
LUKA
That’s an old one.
VAL
So true.
JENSEN
Yeah, and this one, um, is simply called, um, Wet and Wild PhotoFocus Concombre 3-in-1 Base Allure, um, and she-
[LAUGHTER]
JENSEN
She really enjoys, um, uh... reading me little bedtime stories. So those are my raccoons.
VAL
Cheers.
LAUREN
Cheers.
LUKA
[STRAINED] Alright, Lauren?
FRIDAY Alright, so, my name is Friday Jones, uh, and you might have already met my husband, uh, I just call him Jensen, he’s really got this long sort of name that nobody’s got the time to say. But, uh, little bit about me! I grew up on a livestock transport ship, a fairly large sort of thing, and I used to, like, ride the cows from and to end and it was like, just lil’ ol’ me! Bouncing along on the cows! And it was really a lot of fun. And it’s also sorta where I got my proficiency for firearms.
[CHUCKLES]
FRIDAY
So, uh, but you know, got to be a little bit of a nuisance on the ship, I don’t really know what happened, it was probably a mistake, but my family did leave me. On a farm planet. Uh, tender age of nine years old. Um…
VAL Damn.
FRIDAY And then, you know, uh, you gotta do what you gotta do to make money! As far as, uh, guns go, so, uh, you know… turned to maybe some activities that kinda may be a little bit violent. Maybe a little illegal. But, that is how I met- well, sort of, it’s how I… I met my husband, and, like you said, I kinda lost track, I believe it was 22 times we’ve been married? Something like that. And… I made the mistake of trying to break my husband out of prison, and got caught in the process, and then… there was a successful jailbreak, which I am mighty happy about.
LUKA
Mhm.
VAL
Cheers.
LUKA Alright!
[LAUGHTER]
JESSE
Sorry, I realized while you were reading that- that I read the wrong side of the bottle, and that there is an English side.
LUKA
Uh huh!
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
What do we lose by not listening to you?
FRIDAY
Whole lotta expertise with firearms, thats for starters. Um, I know a good thing or two about cows! So, I mean, you’re losing a lot of… cow knowledge.
LUKA
[IN AN EXAGGERATED NEW YORK/BOSTON ACCENT.] Well, we don’t wanna lose any cow knowledge, do we?
VAL
Shut the fuck up.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN Where was I? Cow knowledge? Okay.
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING.] Uh. Cow knowledge.
FRIDAY
And a general sense of security and brain cells, I think.
LUKA
Well that’s a… that’s a quite rude implication, Ms. Jones!
[LAUGHER]
FRIDAY
[OVERLAPPING.] Didn’t say I was nice!
LUKA
[IN A SOUTHERN ACCENT] Oh, okay. I’m turning into the….
LAUREN [OVERLAPPING.] I was like, I know who this is but the listeners do not.
LUKA
[STILL USING ACCENT.] Arthur’s joined the call. Arthur’s joined the call now. Alright.
[LAUGHTER]
VAL How come you never learned how to use a phone?
FRIDAY When you’re on a livestock ship, what do you need a phone for? You got cows! You got cows that you can ride from end to end of the ship! What- what- you need to waste your time, talking to people when you can just talk to cows! And then when you get on a farm planet, well, same thing, you’re talking to corn! You’re not talking to people on the phone! What do you need that for?! What do you need that for? And also they scare me but that’s- I’m not ready to get that vulnerable with y’all, you know?
[LAUGHTER.]
LUKA
Hm.
JESSE [IN A BRITISH ACCENT.] Alright, who’s turn is it?
LUKA
Yours.
JESSE
[IN A SOUTHERN ACCENT.] Um. When were you planning on telling- darling, when were you planning on telling me about the superpowers?
[LAUGHTER.]
FRIDAY
Do you know how hard it is to manage new superpowers when you get to be a woman of my age that’s already established herself as a sort of crime… division, the other side of that? I was gonna tell you as soon as you stopped drinking that Cherry Blossom nonsense! All the time! Just drinking us outta house and home! So maybe you gotta give a little to get a little, Jensen.
JENSEN
Yes, darling.
LUKA
So I know you don’t like Cherry Blossom, but, like, what is your favorite flavor to drink?
FRIDAY
Unfortunately, my friend, I cannot “yes… and” you on that one. Um…
[LAUGHTER.]
FRIDAY
My new friend, uh, because, you know, one thing you gotta know about Friday: there’s a line! And drinking the Cherry Blossom whatever that is not supposed to go in your mouth or oraphaces is beyond that line. So I will not be partaking in that.
LUKA
[MIMICKING FRIDAY.] In that sinful drink.
FRIDAY That’s devil’s brew! I’m convinced!
[LAUGHTER.]
VAL
Alright…
LUKA Not the devil’s brew.
[LAUGHTER.]
VAL
Alright, last question.
LUKA
Yee.
VAL
What happened to the family cat? FRIDAY
I… uh… Wh- when you get left on a farm planet with a cat that has never been on solid ground, and you are nine years old, and also you know, you you got to make a little bit of mon-
You sell the cat. I do regret it, every day, because then I didn’t have any friends.
[LAUGHTER]
FRIDAY (CONT’D)
Um, but… it’s okay. So there was a transaction, probably the last legal one of my entire life, where I sold the cat to a very nice family who needed a milk supply for the winter.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
Don’t you live on a cow farm?
FRIDAY This was after the cow- this was after the cows! This was after- I wish!
LUKA
[OVERLAPPING] Okay. Got it.
FRIDAY
You know, you can milk a cat too, you can milk anything you try hard enough.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
I see! Alright, so, I feel that we are well introduced.
VAL
Uh-huh.
LUKA
So, next questions we answer together.
JESSE
Okay.
LUKA
We gotta bounce ideas off each other, and we’re gonna be designing our ship.
JESSE
[OVERLAPPING] Amazing. LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] Okay.
LUKA
So, number one: how is our vessel unique?
VAL
Hmm. LAUREN
I always think it’s really cool when spaceships have, like, cloaking devices, or stuff, and stuff like that, in sci-fi.
LUKA
I was gonna say it’s transparent.
LAUREN
Ooh! Same brain.
LUKA
Combo that.
LAUREN
Yes.
LUKA
It’s like a glass house. [LAUGHING} You can just see everything that’s inside.
[VARIOUS LAUGHTER AND UNINTELLIGIBLE REACTIONS]
JESSE
Oh, oh my god, Friday, are you Wonder Woman? Is this your invisible jet?
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
[LAUGHS] O- [STUTTERING] Okay. Can I, um-
LUKA
What if- do we- what if we think it has a cloaking device, but it’s just made of transparent material.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING AT THE START] It’s the complete opposite. [STUTTERING] You can see directly into the ship. Um, maybe it’s some sort of, like, um, we think it’s like a two-way mirror scenario, whatever those are called. We think cause we can see out everywhere, and we think that it’s like a mirror on the other side that like reflects the void of space, so we’re completely cloaked- No. It’s just a glass ship.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
[CHANTING] Glass ship! Glass ship!
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING AND CHANTING] Glass ship!
LUKA
Now I really like this next question, I think you’re gonna like it too. How is it quirky or temperamental? VAL
I mean, we were just talking about 2014 Tumblr.
LAUREN
Oh no.
VAL
I do-
JESSE
We stole it from the President.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Yes.
VAL
I was gonna say, I think that the corners of the ship are in fact sorted based off of 2014 Tumblr fandoms.
LUKA
And that also ties into temperamental.
LAUREN
Yeah.
LUKA
I think.
LAUREN
Oh, yeah, definitely. Um, I do also like it being stolen from the President because I think if we’re gonna go- If we’re gonna get in the wayback machine we might as well just commit to it.
VAL
Yeah.
LUKA
Yeah. Okay, so this next question is basically what’s going to be [IN A SLIGHTLY GERMAN ACCENT] driving ze plot. Not to… I don’t know why I did that.
[LAUGHTER]
JESSE
[IN A BRITISH ACCENT] Felix Couvillion.
LUKA
[IN A GERMAN ACCENT] Felix Couvillion joining ze crew for today.
[THEY RESUME THEIR NATURAL ACCENT] Um-
VAL
Cheers.
LUKA
What does it lack that we need?
LAUREN
Ummm….
VAL
A sense of family.
[LAUREN SIGHS ADORINGLY]
[LAUGHTER]
VAL
You know what this ship needs? It’s some love.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
Okay. Mhm. Okay.
[LAUGHTER]
VAL
Maybe the real ship parts was the friends we made along the way.
LAUREN
[OVERLAPPING] The ship is powered by love. VAL
Yes.
LAUREN
And it’s about to fall out of the sky-
VAL
Yep.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA Okay! Well the note that I had that was gonna drive the plot was that the engine was breaking, but I think that’s a metaphor for these bonds that our characters have, that are just- they’re being torn apart. They’ve gotta fix this family one way or another.
VAL
Yeah, no, the friendship dies, the ship dies.
LUKA
Okay, so, I think that’s pretty solid! So now we have to answer some individual questions on the ship. There’s two, they’re- I’ll ask them to each of you. I can start, if we want. So, first one is: how is the vessel home? Well, I think Atticus, as, um, someone who has built their image in 2014 Tumblr walked onto this skip and was like ‘Ah, finally. This is it.’
[LAUGHTER]
VAL
This is the Tumblr, like, island that people would post about back in the day.
LUKA
Yep.
VAL
This is what it’s like.
LUKA
Um, and the other question is: where do you find sanctuary in it? I think Atticus lives wherever the Superwholock corner is.
VAL
That’s what I was gonna say.
LAUREN I was gonna suggest the ball pit? [LAUGHTER]
LUKA Oh, no, you’re right! Atticus finds sanctuary in the ball pit! LAUREN [OVERLAPPING] I don’t want to like, push in on your thing, but-
LUKA
No, no, no, you’re right. I think the ball pit is like, right next door, to the Superwholock corner.
[VARIOUS UNINTELLIGIBLE REACTIONS]
LUKA (CONT’D) I think maybe the Superwholock corner is the bridge, and then there’s like, the ball pit is like, in the bridge-
JESSE
[OVERLAPPING PROTESTS] The ball pit is the bathroom.
LAUREN
[STRAINED] Do not! [LAUGHTER]
LUKA
Why did you have to do that to me?
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA (CONT’D) When you go in the bridge, Atticus, um, asks you if you have an extra hour in the ball pit.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA (CONT’D) So I guess who wants to go next?
[VARIOUS UNSURE SOUNDS] JESSE
Um, I can go?
LUKA
[IN A BRITISH ACCENT] Alright, alright, alright, Lord Jensen. How is the vessel home?
JENSEN
Well, it’s home to me, because, um, my raccoons are here.
[QUIET LAUGHTER]
LUKA
I think the raccoons like the ball pit, probably. JESSE
Yep.
LUKA
Um, where do you find sanctuary in it?
JENSEN
I really like, um, [STUTTERING] The forbidden section of the ship that has Danganronpa discourse posts. [LAUGHTER]
[VARIOUS REACTIONS OF DISGUST AND DISAPPROVAL]
JENSEN (CONT’D)
Uh, but also I spend a lot of time in the dark academia section as well.
LAUREN
Uh… I…
LUKA
So true.
LAUREN
[STUTTERING] Okay, yeah, uh, uh-huh.
LUKA
Alright, [STUTTERING] Honey or Friday? Who’s next? VAL
Um, I’m trying to remember every Tumblr subculture that exists cause all my brain is giving me is Homestuck and I’m not doing that.
LUKA
Yeah, who’s taking on the Homestuck burden? [LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
I know nothing of this media [STUTTERING], so I probably shouldn’t.
LUKA
[STRAINED] I unfortunately do.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA (CONT’D)
Can we cut that out?
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] Can we cut out the admission of guilt in there?
LUKA
[THROUGH LAUGHTER, STUTTERING] So, I guess, uh, Honey, how is the vessel home?
HONEY
You know, after… after the divorce, I was kind of a wanderer, um, you know, I really didn’t have anywhere to go, I was just kind of drifted from planet to planet, and this is the first vessel I’ve been on that really- that really feels like, you know, I could settle down in here, take off my boots, you know, have a nice warm cup of, um, tea, without honey, because you know those bees are overworked as shit.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
The bees need to unionize.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] Where do you find sanctuary in it?
VAL
So… so I do think Honey finds sanctuary, in the, um, in the- [STUTTERING] I did the first half in character, I could probably do the second half.
HONEY
You know, um, I actually quite like the, um, the Welcome to Night Vale, um, little- little like, communications room. Just because, you know, they have all- I like, I like all the characters, um… [PURPOSEFULLY MISPRONOUNCED WITH A HARD C] C-Ceecil? And- and Carlos and I just think of what could have been, you know?
[ASSORTED MHMMS FROM THE OTHERS]
LUKA
Okay.
[LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
Cheers.
LUKA
Um, Friday. How is the vessel home?
FRIDAY
Well, um, vessel’s a lot homier than being an orphan on a planet ya don’t know. Um, and I like it because it’s about as big as- it’s home because it’s about as big as the one that I spent the beginning of my life on, so I can like close my eyes and kinda imagine that maybe there’s some cows or something like that.
LUKA
Mhmm. Where do you find sanctuary in it?
LAUREN
Um, that would be uh, the gun range.
[LAUGHTER]
VAL
[THROUGH LAUGHTER] And that’s the Homestuck one.
[LAUGHTER]
LUKA
I don’t know why we said the ball pit was the bathroom when Homestuck Sharpie Bath was right there.
[MORE LAUGHTER]
LAUREN
There is… guys…
LUKA
Okay, well.
LAUREN
That was great, I have to be going now.
[EVEN MORE LAUGHTER]
LUKA
Okay, well. We are done with our questions.
VAL
Are we starting the game now?
LUKA
We are starting the game now.
VAL
Alright.
LAUREN
[WHISPERED] Alright.
VAL
Tune in next for part two, which, unfortunately, has more Tumblr jokes.
[OUTRO MUSIC AND CREDITS PLAY.]
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jadelotusflower · 3 years
Text
November Roundup
Some writing success this month - I finished and posted a new chapter for Against the Dying of the Light, and made progress on The Lady of the Lake and Turn Your Face to the Sun. I didn’t work much on my novel, but I did do some editing on the first third so that’s progress.
Words written this month: 6647
Total this year: 67,514
November books
Girl, Woman, Other by Bernadine Evaristo - joint winner of the 2019 Booker Prize (with The Testaments by Margaret Atwood) this was an engrossing and interesting read. Stylistically unusual formatting and scant use of punctuation that is a bit jarring at first, but you quickly adapt as you read. There’s no plot as such - instead the story is formed by vignettes of twelve black women and their disparate yet interconnected lives. We have mothers and daughters, close friends, teachers and students, although the connections aren’t always obvious at first - we can be exposed to a character briefly in the story of another with no idea that she will be a focus later on. It’s very skillfully done, to the point whereupon finishing I wanted immediately to re-read (but alas, it was already overdue back to the library). There is so much ground covered that we are really only given a glimpse into the characters lives, but there is a diversity of intergenerational perspectives of the African diaspora in the UK, and I highly recommend.
The Evening and the Morning by Ken Follett - after finishing The Pillars of the Earth I had intended to read the sequel, but this was available on the library shelf and I had to place a hold on World Without End, so the prequel came first. Set sixty years before the Conquest (150 before Pillars) it primarily addresses the growth of the hamlet of Dreng’s Ferry into the town of Kingsbridge, through the lives of a monk with a strong moral code, a clever and beautiful noblewoman, and a skilled builder, working against the machinations of an evil bishop. Sound familiar? This is Follet’s most recent work, and I do wonder if he’s running out of ideas as this covers very similar thematic ground.
Ragna is a compelling female character, but once again the romance-that-cannot-be with Edgar is tepid, Aldred is a very watered down version of Prior Philip, and there’s no grand framing device such as building the cathedral to really tie to all together (although things do Get Built, and it’s interesting but not on the level of Pillars). This is the tail end of the Dark Ages and it shows - Viking raids, slavery, infanticide - and while it seems Follett’s style is to put his characters through much tragedy and tribulation before their happy ending, I wish writers would stop going to the rape well so readily. But at least the sexual violence isn’t as...lasciviously written as in Pillars? Scant praise, I know. But Follett’s strength in drawing the reader into the world and time period is on display, made even more interesting in this era about which we know very little.
Women and Leadership by Julia Gillard and Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala - I have a great deal of respect for Julia Gillard, Australia’s first female Prime Minister who was treated utterly shamefully during her tenure and never got the credit she deserved, perhaps excepting the reaction to her iconic “misogny speech” whichyou can enjoy in full here:
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Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala was the first woman to be Minister of Finance and Foreign Affairs in Nigeria, was also the former Managing Director of the World Bank, and currently a candidate for Director-General of the WTO.
This is an interesting examination of women in leadership roles, comparing and contrasting the lives and experiences of a select few including (those I found the most interesting) Ellen Sirleaf, the first female President of Liberia, Joyce Banda, the first female President of Malawi, New Zealand’s current Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, and of course, Gillard and Okonjo-Iweala themselves.
November shows/movies
The Vow and Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult - I’ve been following the NXIVM case for a while now, when the news broke in 2017 I was surprised and intrigued that it involved actresses from some of my fandom interests - Alison Mack (Smallville), Grace Park and Nikki Clyne (Battlestar Galactica), and Bonnie Piasse (Star Wars). Uncovered: Escaping NXIVM is an excellent podcast from that point in time that’s well worth a listen. There’s been a lot of discussion comparing these two documentaries and which one is better, but I feel they’re both worthwhile.
The Vow gives a primer of NXIVM as a predatory “self improvement” pyramid scheme/cult run by human garbage Keith Reniere, from the perspective of former members turned whistleblowers Bonnie Piasse, who first suspected things were wrong, her husband Mark Vicente who was high up in the organisation, and Sarah Edmondson who was a member of DOS, the secret group within NXIVM that involved branding and sex trafficking. Seduced gives more insight into the depravity and criminality of DOS from the pov of India Oxenburg, just 19 when she joined the group and who became Alison Mack’s “slave” in DOS - she was required to give monthly “collateral” in the form of explicit photographs or incriminating information about herself or her family, had to ask Mack’s permission before eating anything (only 500 calories allowed per day), was ordered to have sex with Reniere, and other horrific treatment - Mack herself was slave to Reniere (as was Nikki Clyne) and there were even more horrific crimes including rape and imprisonments of underage girls.
Of course each show has an interest in portraying its subjects as less culpable than perhaps they were (there were people above and below them all in the pyramid after all) - Vicente and Edmondson in The Vow and Oxenburg in Seduced, but what I did appreciate about Seduced was the multiple experts to explain how and why people were indoctrinated into this cult, and why it was so difficult to break free from it. This is a story of victims who were also victimisers and all the complications that come along with that, although I’m not sure any of these people are in the place yet to really reckon with what happened and all need a lot of therapy.
Focusing on individual journeys also narrows the scope - there are other NXIVM members interviewed I would have liked to have heard a lot more from. There is also a lot of jumping back and forth in time in both docos so the timeline is never quite clear unless you do further research. I would actually like to see another documentary one day a bit further removed from events dealing with the whole thing from start to finish from a neutral perspective. The good news is that Reniere was recently sentenced to 120 years in prison so he can rot.
I saw value in both, but you’re only going to watch one of these, I would say go for Seduced - if you’re interested in as much information as possible, watch The Vow first to get a primer on all the main players and then Seduced for the full(er) story.
The Crown (season 4) - While I love absolutely everything Olivia Coleman does, I thought it took a while for her to settle in as the Queen last season and it’s almost sad that she really nailed it this season, just in time for the next cast changeover (but I also love everything Imelda Staunton does so...) This may be an unpopular opinion, but I wasn’t completely sold on Gillian Anderson as Thatcher - yes I know she sounded somewhat Like That, but for me the performance was a little too...affected? (and someone get her a cough drop, please!) 
It is also an almost sympathetic portrayal of Thatcher - even though it does demonstrate her classism and internalised misogyny, it doesn’t really explore the full impact of Thatcherism, why she was such a polarising figure to the extent that some would react like this to her death:
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But I suppose it’s called The Crown, not The PM.
Emma Corrin is wonderful as Diana, and boy do they take no prisoners with Charles (or the other male spawn). I was actually surprised at how terrible they made Charles seem rather than both sidesing it as I had expected (but perhaps that’s being saved for season 5). It does hammer home just how young Diana was when they were married (19 to Charles’ 32), how incompatible they were and the toxicity of their marriage (standard disclaimer yes it’s all fictionalised blah blah). The performances are exceptional across the board - Tobias Menzies and Josh O’Conner were also standouts and it’s a shame to see them go.
I was however disappointed to see that the episode covering Charles and Di’s tour of Australia was not only called “Terra Nullius” but the term was used as a very tone deaf metephor that modern Australia was no longer “nobody’s land/country”. For those who aren’t aware, terra nullius was the disgraceful legal justification for British invasion/colonisation of Australia despite the fact that the Indigenous people had inhabited the continent for 50,000 years or more. While the tour was pre-Mabo (the decision that overturned the doctrine of terra nullius and acknowledged native title), there was no need to use this to make the point, especially when there was no mention at all of the true meaning/implication of the term.
The Spanish Princess (season 2, episodes 4-8)- Sigh. I guess I’m more annoyed at the squandered potential of this show, since the purpose ostensibly was to focus on the time before The Great Matter and give Katherine “her due” - and instead they went and made her the most unsympathetic, unlikeable character in the whole damn show. (Spoilers) She literally rips Bessie Blount’s baby from her body and, heedless to a mother’s pleas to hold her child, runs off to Henry so she can present him with “a son”. I mean, what the actual fuck?
I’m not a stickler for historical accuracy so long as it’s accurate to the spirit of history (The Tudors had its flaws, but it threaded this needle most of the time), but this Katherine isn’t even a shadow of her historical figure - she’s not a troubled heroine, she’s cruel and vindictive, Margaret Pole is a sanctimonious prig, and Margaret Tudor does little but sneer and shout - the only one who comes out unscathed is Mary Tudor (the elder), and it’s only because she’s barely in it at all. It’s a shame because I like all of these actresses (especially Georgie Henley and Laura Carmichael) but they are just given dreck to work with.
This is not an issue with flawed characters, it’s the bizarre presentation of these characters that seems to want to be girl power rah rah, and yet at the same time feels utterly misogynistic by pitting the women against each other or making them spiteful, stupid, or crazy for The Drama. I realise this is based on Gregory so par for the course, but it feels particularly egregious here. (Spoilers) At one point Margaret Pole is banished from court by Henry, and because Katherine won’t help her (because she cant!) she decides to spill the beans about Katherine’s non-virginity. Yes, her revenge against the hated Tudors is...to give Henry exactly what he wants? Even though it will result in young Mary, who she loves and cares for, being disinherited? Girlboss!
This season also missed the opportunity to build on its predecessors The White Queen/Princess and show why it was so important to Henry to have a male heir - the Tudor reign wasn’t built on the firmest foundations and so needed uncontested transfer of power, at the time there was historic precedent that passing the throne to a daughter led to Anarchy, and wars of succession were very recent in everyone’s memory. At least no one was bleating about The Curse this time, which is actually kind of surprising, because the point of the stupid curse is the Tudor dynasty drama.
But it’s not all terrible. Lina and Oviedo are the best part of the show, and (spoilers) thankfully make it out alive. Both are a delight to watch and I wish the show had been just about them.
Oh well. One day maybe we’ll get the Katherine of Aragon show we deserve - at least I can say that the costumes were pretty, small consolation though it is.
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whoson1st · 4 years
Note
Are you in the official King Falls server at all? Just trying to get an idea of what's going on and who knows what's going on
Hoooooo BOISE.
So, long story short, yes. Yes I’m in the discord, yes I know what’s going on, and it’s all really, really stupid. I think that there were mistakes made on a lot of fronts, but I also think that the end result is, in a lot of ways, a long time coming.
I haven’t been responding to things I’ve seen on social media for the most part, and wasn’t REALLY keen to respond to this, but there’s also a lot of misinformation happening due to hurt feelings. There’s plenty of abridged accounts of what’s going on, and I’m pretty sure you know that. I’m taking this question on good faith that it’s genuinely asking and not setting me up to get torn down but...honestly, either way, I don’t care. I’m not on tumblr much these days anyway so it doesn’t really matter, and internet drama is just….it’s always dumb. But there’s a lot of “evidence” being put forth that is out of context or in bad faith, and the people who are being the loudest are a whole lot of the problem, so I’ll put in my account and opinions.
Anyway, I’m putting everything under a cut because it’s...a lot.
So first off, full disclosure, I used to be a mod on the discord. I left the team at the beginning of the year of my own volition because I’m an adult with a job and a life and things to take care of that aren’t that and needed a break. I’m still friends with all the current mods, and talk to them regularly, as well as being on good terms with the cast and creators. Just in case you’re dead set on hating any of them, you should know that. I try to keep a pretty good perspective, and I’m a little more removed than I was a few months ago, but I won’t say I’m totally free of bias either. If that’s what you’re into, just go ahead and skip this.
This all started with a piece of fan art, which honestly should be a clue as to how petty this all is. The fanart included The Dirt in a BDSM outfit as part of a larger work, and it was posted in the fanart section of the discord. It was bordering on NSFW, and the artist maybe should have asked the mods and/or put it behind a spoiler tag--which is probably as far as the mods would have gone had they been consulted, because it was 1) part of a larger thing and 2) canon compliant (it’s Jacob Williams, what do you want?). Neither of those things happened, people complained, the art was taken down. Then Kyle Brown, one of the writers, retweeted the copy that had been uploaded to twitter on his personal account--his account, not KFAM official--and someone complained that it made them uncomfortable and was not safe for work. Another cast member, Trent Shumway, replied that twitter isn’t a safe for work site, which it’s not. Which then led to both Kyle and Trent being socially crucified for not taking more care in what their followers see on their personal accounts on an open social media platform that is not dedicated to any single person or work.
It was already stupid. Really, really stupid. Especially since this is not a SFW podcast. It never has been. Everyone remember the third episode with Archie’s pomchies? And I know that certain aspects of that make people uncomfortable but if you are choosing to listen to the show regardless of that, it’s on you. An artist isn’t going to repaint something because you’re not a fan of green. And the SFW rule on the server has always been “within the guidelines of the show”.
So then, someone made this post that has since been deleted but I’m including mostly because if other people want to go ahead and pull receipts, I’m also going to.
Tumblr media
Before I go ANY further with this, I want to say this: this person has been a problem for a LONG TIME. Months, at least, since before I left the mod team, and is honestly part of the reason being a mod became so difficult for me. They have displayed a pattern of abuse of the mods, the creators, and other members of the community on both twitter and tumblr, and have made people on the discord server uncomfortable enough that they either don’t participate or have left completely. This one person. And they have a bully squad behind them. And it sucks. But in the end, it was always decided that we couldn’t police what people did on their individual accounts or single someone out who hadn’t technically broken guidelines in the server, despite numerous complaints, because the mods and creators want to make everyone feel that they’re included. This decision was made...numerous times. After multiple incidents. For months.
I had my own issues with this decision, but that’s neither here nor there, and doesn’t really matter anymore. Because that post was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
Kyle, misunderstanding the term, took it as a threat. Not hard to do, given the already heightened emotions, the tags, and this person’s history. So the person was immediately banned. The fact is, even without misunderstanding, that’s a really shitty post. That’s hating one a writer and a cast member and still wanting to pretend they have nothing to do with the THING THEY CREATE because this person doesn’t like what they said on twitter.
Following that, one of their friends--who had also been a longstanding problem--attempted to start a knockdown dragout in the general chat with one of the mods over this, and was upset when the mod in question first said they’d be happy to talk on DM but not on the server, and then ignored them when they repeatedly tried to carry on the argument.
Then they lit a candle in the channel the banned person had pitched a fit in order to form, as if the person was dead and not just a jerk. And then they made this post:
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They also got banned, because OBVIOUSLY. Again, misunderstanding or not, that’s a horrible way to deal with it. You can’t possibly expect to call someone an illiterate fuckwad and still want to be included in spaces they created, much less EXPECT to be. 
And then several other people who were attempting the same nonsense publicly. And then invites were taken away when the mods got word that there was a possible plan in the works to spam the server. And there’s a weird campaign to EXPOSE THE CREATORS FOR THE ASSHOLES THEY ARE.
And that’s...about where things are at now. A lot of people are upset and hurt across the board. And it sucks.
Here’s the thing. Mistakes were made. Kyle misunderstood Death of the Author, and has a tendency toward knee-jerk, unedited reactions. The mods should have been more on top of the problem and not let it fester. There were ways that this could have been mitigated and done better. There always are.
But this was always going to happen in some fashion.
Podcasts and podcast communities are not new anymore, folks. But it still seems like people have a hard time grasping their actual level of involvement in the creation because of how active some creators are. You’re free to say whatever you want, but you are not free from consequence. And you’re not exempt from being wrong. This isn’t just a matter of the creators of KFAM--or any work, to be honest--not being able to take criticism, this is a matter of people thinking that their criticism is 100% correct 100% of the time, and the entitled attitude that comes with that. KFAM isn’t perfect, I have my own criticisms of it, because I have criticisms about basically everything under the sun, so it’s not just blind following. But it is trust in the creators and the people around them to find the best way to tell their story, to the see their problems and strive for better. And we’ve literally seen that happen in KFAM, in changes made to Walt, in Emily’s storyline, in Lily’s...everything. In the addition of “guys, gals, and non-binary pals”. They’re trying. They’re not perfect, but they’re not deaf. They’re also not obligated or beholden to everything their audience says regarding their story.
The whole argument that they can’t take criticism is undercut when it’s being made by people who think that everything they say should be taken as gospel, and treat every instance where someone disagrees with them as a personal attack. The scope of hypocrisy here is just...breathtaking.
Also, when not withstanding some nonsense attacks, they’re all genuinely kind and friendly. I already admitted some bias here, but seriously, they go out of their way to check on people and respond to people and lift people up. It’s total horse dookie to act like they don’t care about their fans.
And as for the discord--god, just get a life. The mods there work SO HARD to make everyone feel included, to encourage participation, the create a positive environment for people to talk about the things they love and make friends. They have meetings and spreadsheets and calendars and work together as a team and with Kyle to keep the place working smoothly even though there’s FIVE of them running a HUGE server. The person who was initially banned was forever complaining about the discord and how the mods ran it, even while some suggestions they had were implemented. But that discord has like 1500 people in it, gang, it’s not about what one person wants all the time. And that person has their own server anyway so just go be unhappy there and leave everyone else alone. It’s what you were doing anyway.
TL;DR: There was a lot of manufactured outrage over something incredibly dumb, and some misunderstandings, and resulted in actions that had been looming for a long time and just finally popped off. Kyle and the mods aren’t perfect, but they aren’t the villains. The people who were banned have a history of negativity and bullying that led to the decision to remove them.
If anyone takes anything from this, please let it be that it’s a GODDAMN PODCAST. If it makes you angry, if you don’t like it, go watch a movie. Eat a snack. Knit a sweater. Take a nap. Listen to a new music album. Literally anything. There’s so many things to do in this life that aren’t LOOKING for things to be upset about.
Remember the golden rule, and don’t be a dick.
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lux-talks-a-lot · 3 years
Text
New Episode Reactions!!! Pt 1
AHHH, I have so many feelings ya'll!! This episode was so awesome and the art was absoulty suberp! Thomas and the whole crew worked so hard to get this out and it really paid off! I just wanted to run through all the amazing things in this ep now that I've watched it once!
I'm warning you now this is mostly just me gushing about amazing and great everything is because it's very amazing and great! Strap in for spoiler central!!!
First of all the thumbnail is just amazing
Starting off with Thomas being incredibly relatble and awkward, we love to see it!
ROMAN!!!!
VIRGIL!!!!!
I love that this confirms that the sides just pop up in Thomas's day to day life and bully him, it's great
Side notw: I love how the artists drew Thomas in this, he looks adorable
OMG prinxiety poping out the godamn clothing hanging thing to call thomas old makes me very happy
I love that this whole episode is Virgil and Roman bonding, it is fabulos.
"DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT I LOVE YOU MEANS TO THEM?"
"You told me to say it!"
"STOP PLAYING YOU PEOPLE'S HEARTS THOMAS"
I love this so much
There is a whole lot of lying here but I have yet to spot a single snake boi :(
I know Jan had a whole thing last episode but like... I miss him :(((
HEART EYES ROMAN!!!!! BEING SO GODAMN DRAMATIC!!!! I LOVE HIM SO MUCH
"*long poetic description of feelings*"
"What?"
"*SIGH* Cutie at twelve-o-clock."
Prinxeity's dual calling of bullshit when Thomas says he's not interested
WHY IS ROMAN ME WHEN I SEE A CUTE GIRL IN PUBLIC
Virgil pulling fucking boniculars just out of nowhere
"He's got some stickers on his laptop."
"Pretty gay~" *finger gun*
Virgil laying down introvert laws on stickers is great and very true (in unrelated news, I need to buy more stickers for my laptop)
Nico's a disney fan too!!!!
I kind of love that it was the Nightmare Before Chrismas sticker that sealed the deal for them because it's something that's very Roman and also very Virgil
Also how can you not take that sticker as clear sign from the universe that this will end in roman and happily ever afters, I'm with Roman here (when am I not tho?)
"You can live like Jack and Sally..."
I don't why Virgil calling Roman doofus is so funny and dorky to me but it is and I love it. I want them to get along but I want to keep the banter and little insults that don't mean much
"Why forget your spectacles at the retirment home?"
"Those jokes are getting old..."
"You would know..."
I love the gentle bullying
YOU SEE SOME BUTTONS; YOU BUTTON IT!!!!!
PINTERVERTS!!!!
THIS IS WHY I LOVE SEEING THESE INTERACTING!!!!
Seeing Roman and Virgil with the head sets and mics really makes me want to like make a rodio hosts AU, they'd defintly be interesting pair to listen to. Oh! or like a podcast thing or something! I'd listen to it!
Also the backseat driving from prinxiety is great
"I'M NOT MAX! I'M PRINCE ROMAN -"
Also that godamn, you got five seconds thing gave ME anxciety
"great."
"great indeed."
"GREAT INDEED!"
boiled. mayo. carrots. what the heck thomas.
"The only logical next step. Go home and regret everything." Virge, buddy, pal, chill for like five seconds.
"No man!"
"Uh, it's RO-man. With an R? You're really struggling today."
Ro, buddy, pal, princey, never change.
"When it comes to anti-social etiquette, I'm a triple expert. An ex-ex-expert!"
"Easy tiger" This is flirting right? This is defintly flirting. They are flirting!
GAY EYES!!!!
Roman doing the gay eyes and the little noises AHHHH, I'm dying, i'm deceased, my ghost is writing this
Side note: I'm really tempted to become a patron just to see the live action version of this scene alone, imagine my friends, imagine
Gay eyes have never worked for me either
DISASTOR!
"No DO look at youself Thomas. Because that was a test and you failed!"
"You were testing me!?!?!"
"Oh no, I was just panicking."
I love them
I also love all of Virgil's instenseness in this episode because honestly very relatable to my own anxiety but also the art was just really great
 “If you don’t have anything nice to say... you’re a dirty lier.”
God the whole pretend you’re leaving was so funny and gave me such secondhand embrassement, it was so good
“I hate to rain on your black parade, Gerard Gay -”
I missed him and his nicknames SO MUCH
Virgil and Roman literally pulling Thomas around and making him sit and stand is just so funny to me. it’s like Roman and Logan fighting over control of Thomas’s arms
“You’re making a mistake!”
“If I am I’ll add it to the list!”
Oh. My heart. Roman, darling, no -
Again with the pushing, guys
This poor random passerby who got accosted by Thomas’s awkwardness. I hope they had a good day at the mall at least
THE TRASH CAN!!!!
I love that it’s not just Thomas in the trash can but all three of them
This is another scene I would LOVE to see live action
“You were being a baby about the buttons and the pins had you panicking.”
It’s nice to see Roman helping Thomas get clean in the bathroom
“He’s got birds on the brain! You don’t wanna wing it, Virge? Alright let’s drum up a plan!”
I love the puns but I love Roman trying to help Virge feel better about this more even tho they didn’t end up going with this
“It’s like cyber-stalking but real life”
“So... stalking”
“... OH YOU’RE RIGHT!”
Virgil, sweetie, you’re doing amazing
“Speaking from the heart” Patton, buddy, is that you?
THE MONOLOGUE!!!!
“The mall is where you go when you don’t know what you want because the mall has everything...”
Roman’s face at that line really killed me fam. He is going through some stuff, huh
Actually Roman’ and Virgil’s faces during the whole speech really killed me
OMG THE DUDE IN THE BATHROOM!!!!
All those theories about the next ep being Ro & Virge bonding through mutual dislike of Janus were sorta right
Also it’s interesting that Virgil is clearly talking about Janus but is still calling him Deciet
Also generally enjoying the calm Prinxeity team up and discussion for once
“No, he’s better off without me.”
AH no, thomas!
Damn I’m so used to Sides Angst the character thomas angst really hit me by the wayside
GAY PANIC
NICO!!!!!
“HE FEARS THINGS TOO!?”
THE GAY PANIC!!!!
“I THINK I SAW A LOT OF WIDE VOWELS?”
“NEVADA????”
“MORE THAN THAT!”
“ANACONDA?????”
“ANACONDA!!!!! HE’S A NIKKI MINHAJ FAN!!!!”
They are such disaster gays
Mishearing the guy and then instead of asking for a repeat, just going along with it is so terribly terribly relatable but god the second hand embrasment
“another chance at happiness squandered.”
break my heart why doncha ya
 The whole sequence of Virgil noticing Roman being so godamn sad and miserable and watching Nico walk away and his breathing speeding up and the wide eyed panic before he pushes thomas is literally my favorite part of the whole damn video! that wasn’t easy for him to do but he did it. for roman and thomas. so that didn’t squader another chance. he was so brave and i’m so proud of him
I really love Nico! He seems so chill and adorable and he took thomas’s flutered rambling so well! and he’s a writer!!! and he winked at thomas!!!
Mr. Florez!!!!
He’s writing a song!!!!!
The song explanation calling thomas out is kind of adorable
this whole meet cute is kind of adorable
“THAT WAS YOU?” “ARE YOU OKAY?”
brusied ego, aw does that mean Patton’s gonna be taking care of Ro like the last time Thomas got a brusied ego
MY SECOND FAVORITE PART OF THE VIDEO: Ro’s soft little “Shut up, emo” and the little hearts and his hand on Virgil’s shoulder and Virgil’s little smile at him and the whole calling Virge brave!!! It was all so so so good!!!!
End Card Time!!!!!
Thomas calling Roman a punk is adorable
Also Janus’s Corridor Of Stored Rewards!!! Amazing
Everyone coming back all excited and giddy really matched my own excitement and giddiness and I love it
LITERAL SCREAMS OF JOY
Virgil’s purple sparkly eyeshadow because he’s happy is so so pure and amazing and I kind of want to try out that look myself
“Thomas I’m gonna need you to walk around the entire room - yes thank you- that helps somehow”
even more things to project onto Virgil with, thank you
I haven’t seen Virgil smile this much in one episode before and it is really watering my crops, clearing my skin, rasing my grades, saving my whole ass year -
The dark eyeshadow returning at Thomas’s subtweet is great and very relatable
Virgil asking what is things are never the same again but with light eyeshadow and the clearly more hopeful outlook on things makes me so very happy
I love Roman being excited but like we don’t see virgil so giddy nearly as often and it’s just so heartwarming
Roman trying to get them to go to France on V-day and Virge actually going along with the idea!!!
Virgil telling Thomas to do the happy flappies!!!!
Virgil’s face at ‘are u ready for this’ kills me
But the deepening panic voice when the dog barks and his reaction to Ro telling him to relax was great
in summary: I though based on the title this was going to be the other sides flirting with Virgil and honestly I wasn’t that far off
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thecostumeplot · 3 years
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Episode 15: What Happened to Monday & Tron: Legacy
Please consult these Instagram slideshows for accompanying images:  What Happened to Monday Tron: Legacy
Sarah and Jojo: Welcome to the costume plot. Jojo Siu I'm Jojo Siu Sarah Timm and I'm Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers. Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description. Jojo Siu We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in the Costume Plot. [music]
Jojo Siu Hello, and welcome back. Sarah Timm Welcome back to the costume plot. Jojo Siu Second episode of the day. Sarah Timm We record these back to back so it's been two weeks for you guys, but it's been about five minutes for us Jojo Siu It's weird to think about that. Sarah Timm A little bit, huh? How's the future? Is it fun? Jojo Siu I know. Tell us. Tell us all about it. Sarah Timm Is Coronavirus over? Jojo Siu Finally. Oh man. Oh, yeah. Did you get your vaccine? Sarah Timm I did! Yeah. And by the time this episode comes out, I will be fully vaccinated meaning that the two weeks will have passed. I got it on the 29th of March. Jojo Siu Woohoo! I'm super excited. So excited! Then we'll both be fully vaccinated. Sarah Timm Yeah Jojo Siu And we can actually have a hang out! Without masks! Sarah Timm Imagine that. I know. Our friend Ramsey has gotten his vaccine and his boyfriend has, and we're planning to have dinner parties. And we're just so excited to finally DO stuff. Jojo Siu I know. I'm very excited. Matt's supposed to get his on Friday. Sarah Timm Exciting. Jojo Siu Yeah. All right. Well, I will I will get us started on our our next episode, Sarah Timm What's our theme today? Jojo Siu This one is not as scary as I last episode. Sci-fi is a little less creepy for me. Although, you know, it is also something very near and dear to us in the future. So that COULD be scary. Sarah Timm Sometimes, Sci-fi is scary. Jojo Siu It's true. But I'm very excited to talk about this movie. It's something that I watched a long time ago. And I will say the storyline is probably not the most new or interesting for a sci fi kind of thriller. But I also really just love the actors that are in this movie. And it's a pretty big all-star cast. So I will get started. Let me share my screen. Okay, so I will be covering the movie "What Happened to Monday. And this movie, it's probably not as well known. But again, it's something that I've really come to enjoy. And it's a very fun movie. So if you're looking for something kind of, I don't want to say on the lighter side. I guess there's some light parts of it, but it is kind of a darker movie. It's directed by Tommy Wirkola, who wrote and directed "Dead Snow" as well as "Dead Snow 2". You probably know him the best from the new "Hansel and Gretel" movie. So he did that action "Hansel and Gretel" . And then he also did--I wrote this down because no one knows what it is--but it's "Kill Buljo" which is a parody of "Kill Bill". Oh, and apparently, there's also a sequel for that. So I thought that was funny that, you know, that was on his list of things. So he hasn't done a ton of work. But the few things he's done--it looks like they were more in the sci-fi genre. So he tends to kind of lean towards that. And then the costume designer for this was Oana Paunescu. I hope I'm saying that correctly. She did several versions of "Dragonheart". And then she was also the wardrobe supervisor for a show called "Mirrors". And then she also did "Seed of Chucky", which is probably the one that most people know. But yeah, so this was an interesting kind of adventure for her, she talks a little bit about how she really had to figure out how to dress seven versions of the same person. And I should probably go back and tell you what the premise of the story is. So the idea is that we are in a kind of not-so-distant in the future. The setting is 2043. And I don't know what city it's supposed to be, because again, this is in the future. I think it's supposed to be kind of a representative of any urban city setting. But it's the idea that at this point, they've been doing all of these things to kind of solve all the environmental problems that we've had, that have been created by you know, world global warming and all those other things. But in order to do that, it's actually created a new defect, where humans when they get pregnant, are actually coming out with multiple births. So people regularly will have septuplets or you know, quintuplets or whatever. So basically this idea of overpopulation has now happened. And so in order to control that, the character Glenn Close, who is not necessarily a councilwoman but she's kind of representing this new age of science, where she is fighting for putting all the siblings or having one child in each family that exists in the world and then having all the rest of her siblings or his siblings put into cryogenic sleep until sometime in the future. So that's their way of kind of controlling the population and trying to keep that in control. And so of course, that means that you know, every sibling is supposed to be put into cryogenic sleep, but of course there is the main character is played by Noomi Rapace. Is that how you say her name? Sarah Timm I think it's "Rapas". I'm not 100% sure. Jojo Siu Noomi Rapace, who is infamously known for "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" Sarah Timm The Swedish one, not the American one. Jojo Siu Yeah, yes, Sarah Timm She's so good in that, Jojo Siu Yes, very good in that one. But she plays our leading lady. So basically, her mother died in childbirth, giving birth to her and her six other siblings. And Karen Settman is the name of the mother. And so the grandfather, father of this mother, who gave birth to these sevenchildren, he decides discreetly, he finds a hospital where she's allowed to deliver them safely and ends up keeping them. And so the grandfather ends up coming up with this whole system. Where because there's seven of them, he names each of the kids after a day of the week. And so he trains them and basically protects them, and actually builds a whole space custom made for them. So he teaches them to go out each day of their week, and only go out, but always as Karen Settman. So each of them has their persona inside the house. But when they leave the house, they are always representing one only child--Karen Settman. Sarah Timm So they each have their own day of the week where they get to leave the house. Jojo Siu Yeah, exactly. But you know, one of the things too, is that the grandfather recognizes that this is a very dangerous world. They actually COULD be taken by the police, and he doesn't want them to be put into cryogenic sleep, he wants them to be able to grow up together. But of course, because of that, he has to train them to realize that whatever happens to one of them outside on the streets, has to happen to all of them, because they all have to be Karen Settman--the ONE Karen Settman. So they kind of lose their own identity. He talks about them being able to be themselves at the house. And there's a lot of flashbacks to him, training them as kids. And what happens if they can't have two of them out on the street at the same time in case someone sees a second twin, or suddenly realizes they have seven of them in the same house. And then he also builds in basically a cry of a panic room. And has them train what'll happen in case the government comes to the door and they have to hide. Sarah Timm Wow. Jojo Siu So basically, that is the the starting premise of this story. And of course, we show the flashbacks of how they came to this place. But then the movie starts off with Sunday returning home. And she is basically you know, she's she's lived her life, she's come back from work. And they have a very specific dress for what she looks like everyday when she goes to work. And then when she comes back to her very kind of shoddy looking hotel, you finally realize she's got six other siblings and their practice is, at the end of every day, that she introduces, or sorry, they all have bracelets where they check in to each of the locations. And it actually--the bracelet goes to the government and tells them this is a one child only. So there's a lot of things that you know, the grandfather has clearly done to tamper with all of this technology that's in the future to make sure they're safe. So the movie is called "What Happened to Monday?" Because on Monday, "Monday" goes out she has this big presentation where she's supposed to get promoted at work. And she goes and is very worried about her job on Monday. And then she suddenly goes missing. Sarah Timm Oh! Jojo Siu ...and shortly before she goes missing, you find out that one of her co-workers is kind of threatening her and says "I know. I know your secret. You better. You better listen to me. You better give ME the promotion so that you don't get ousted" Sarah Timm Right. Jojo Siu And then she just disappears so she never comes home. The rest of the sisters don't know what's happened. And that's kind of where we start the movie. So let me move on to our costumes. Sarah Timm Oh, wow. Jojo Siu So I'm going to start actually breaking this down by character because I've given you quite a lot of backstory. So I'm not going to necessarily go throughout the movie because they mostly stay in very similar costumes pretty much throughout the entire story. And again, this takes place pretty much over a week, because we go through each of the days. This is just a quick, quick close up of Glenn Close, I wanted to focus very briefly on all of her costumes. Because she, at least in this picture, she reminds me a lot of Margaret Thatcher. Sarah Timm Yes. Jojo Siu And sort of the new age of the future. She's kind of trying this changing of a lot of what's happening and trying to really do good for, for controlling this overpopulation problem. And so she's kind of the face of, of this overpopulation. It's called the... Collection--I should know this--Collection something Bureaucy. But it's called CAB for short. So she runs CAB. And basically, they're the people that collect the siblings, if they find out there are more than one. Sarah Timm This hair. Jojo Siu I know, it's crazy. Her hair isn't like that the whole time. That's just the introduction, we see her in at the very beginning of the movie. So then we go to the second image of her and this is when she's in her facility. So in the CAB facilities, and you see her kind of peeping into a room full of children. And these are children that they've collected, when they found out they were siblings of other parents. So she, she looks in the room, and it's just this group of small kids that are kind of playing around. And so she keeps talking about, "they're not going to be in pain, it'll be great." And so this--I just wanted to focus on how beautiful this coat is. She's in a lot of like blues and greens throughout the movie, kind of very earthy tones, which is very ironic, because she's kind of she's actually kind of our villain until the very end. But I love how clean cut her look is. And again, very, very, like Prime Minister; a very "Margaret Thatcher" look. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu And then this is the final scene. So this is actually towards the end of the movie when she's about to run for council woman. So BIG SPOILER alert, you find out that she has not been cryogenically freezing any of these siblings. She puts them into this pod, and then gives them a shot to basically, either put them to sleep or make them unconscious or whatever the series is, and then they actually get burned to death. So they all get incinerated. So you find out that she's actually just been killing all of these siblings. Sarah Timm I mean, that's not surprising. But the mess is..... Jojo Siu Right, right. Right, exactly. So, you know, you find out that she has been lying about all this stuff, she has been the face of this cryogenic, you know, CAB thing for so long. And so she is trying to run for counselor. And she's made this deal with one of the sisters to let her live in order to help her. To give her a huge donation basically to become council woman. So this is that final scene where she's talking to the sister. And this is also just a quick show of whatall of the Karen segments were when they go to work. So this is the typical outfit, every single one of them has the same exact clothing, they wear their hair exactly the same way. And you'll see kind of when we go to some of the other characters, how different they are when they're back at home. But this is kind of the image. And Monday was the first one that was born out of the seven. So she is the one that kind of starts the week. And so, when she disappears, her outfit actually is the closest to what she wears inside the house in addition to outside the house. So I wanted to kind of show that, because that's basically what you see most of them in when they're out on the street. Okay, moving on. So this is just a quick family shot. And you can see how different each of the different family members are. Sunday is actually right at the end of the table Monday you see here is right on the...kind of right of center. And she you can see here she's got green on, but it's actually the same exact silhouette as the blue blazer that she's wearing in the previous scene. This one is Saturday, so she's kind of the party girl. Sarah Timm Basic, 'cause she's Saturday! Jojo Siu Exactly, exactly. And I'll talk a little bit more about how the costume designer decided to break up the days of the week too. Friday is right here so she's kind of got the beanie and the plaid flannel. Thursday is sort of our tomboy, skater girl, so she's kind of the one that always questions the system; doesn't understand why they have to do this; feels like she wants to break out and always wants to have her own voice. Wednesday is our kind of athletic gym rat. So she is the one that's always working out and you know, doing stuff, and then you can't really see your face, but we'll we'll get some close ups on her later. But Tuesday is kind of our hippie pot smoking nerd. So she's the one that's always smoking and always whatever--very chill. She's also the only one with red hair out of the... Sarah Timm Oh. Jojo Siu Seven of them. Okay, moving on. So just another quick shot, this is just what she's wearing all the time when she goes out. So she's got that dress underneath with the blue, but then she always has this blue trench coat that she wears on top. And you see her in that all the time--she's always in the same earrings. So there's a whole scene where they have almost like a technology grid, and it actually will take a look at all the blemishes on their face to make sure that they look exactly the same. Sarah Timm Fancy! Jojo Siu ...whenever they go out, which is so crazy. So you have acne "here", or you're a little red "here", or your eyes are really red today or whatever it is. And then it helps them kind of figure out what they need to make up or cover up in order to look exactly the same. So again, this look is very, very contrived, every single one of them has to look exactly the same when they leave the house. The other big part is they have to tell each other what's happened in the day. Because if there's anything any conversations they had with another, you know, coworker, or they have to be consistent, they need to know exactly what the conversations were about, and all of that. So that part of their bracelet is that they actually have a little camera in there to kind of walk them through what's happened throughout the day. And Friday, who's the tech geek is the one that kind of helps them figure out all of that. Sarah Timm I was thinking how hard it would be to only get to go to work once a week and have to pretend like you've been there the whole time. That's a lot of work to keep up with! Jojo Siu It is. SO much. And I think you know, they all start kind of feeling that eventually, because they've been growing up in this system for so long. So losing that individuality anywhere outside the house can be really hard. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu So it was really hard to find pictures of of these costumes. So I pulled up all of these posters. So there actually won't be as many pictures for this one, Sarah, you'll be very excited. But I wanted to kind of just go through some of the costume designers' notes on what each of the days meant for her. So like we talked a little bit about Monday. So for her "Monday would wear something a little bit softer in color, and you wouldn't necessarily think that she's softer because of what her character does." And again, SPOILER alert, Monday actually sells her siblings out in order to try and stay alive. And she has good reasons at the end of the movie, but the way that it's portrayed in this movie, it makes it seem like she's the villain. When you find out at the very end that she's actually fallen in love with one of the CAB officers, who doesn't know that she's a sibling, but he and her basically have been together for months. She finally decides that she wants to just be free of this life and doesn't want to have siblings. And she's also pregnant with twins. So, in order to protect her twins, she signs this, you know agreement with Kaman who is played by Glenn Close. And so, in order to give her that huge donation to become the Councilwoman, she will be protected, her kids will be protected, and not taken. And so, in addition to that, she has to obviously reveal that she is one of seven, Sarah: Right. So they basically the the rest of the movie is Glenn Close and all of the agents that she sends to try and kill the rest of them. Because the fact that seven siblings have existed and have escaped her notice and not gone into cryogenic sleep, is really bad for her reputation. So rather than trying to like suddenly throw them into cryogenic sleep and make it okay, she just opts to send people to kill them. So, of course, when Monday disappears, then Tuesday tries to go in, but has no recollection of what's happened the day before because she wasn't there. And so she gets she's the first one to kind of get taken by CAB. And so, everything after that kind of trickles after that. So Mondays, you know, we talked about that--Tuesday comes after a Monday. So she said, "which means for example, you may need to smoke more." 'Cause Monday's always the hardest. She said Wednesday, "you're realizing you smoke too much and you have to work out." So again Wednesday, it's like our gym rats. On Thursday, she said "we reboot ourselves". So you find out it for this version of Thursday. She's almost kind of like the Butch femme. So she's always in black t-shirts or white t-shirts and skinny jeans and black combat boots and she's got the short pixie cut. So she's kind of our leading lady out of the seven, if you can really call it, that besides Monday, but she's the one that kind of leads the rest of the sisters in trying to find Monday and save everyone. So Thursday is the reboot day and then Friday. She said "Maybe we choose to study more". So again, Friday is our kind of tech nerd/geek nerd. And then Saturday, "Let's drink" and Sunday: "We choose to behave and go to church". So Sunday is actually the first one that dies. Sorry, SPOILER ALERT. But she also is the one that they talk about, that has to believe. She was always the believer, she always believed in better, she always believed in, you know, better hope for the future. And she's also always dressed in these kind of cardigans and sort of Sunday church dresses. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu And so again, very--on the surface--very perfect and hopeful in her dress and in her costume. So when we first see her in the first scene with the sisters, she's always in these like floral prints, which I really love too. And I think the costume designer actually, I think she was the only one in really a print, everyone else was in kind of more geometric blocks or, or just plain tees. So the fact that Sunday is always our very floral and kind of natural and organic prints, this idea that she's sort of the the hopeful one. And I think that's reflected in her costume. So Monday, again, you know, this was really the only other close up that I could find where we don't see her in the blue, because again, the rest of the movie, she's pretty much missing. And at the very end, we'll see a picture of her back in kind of like a version of the dress that she normally wears. But the way that they differentiated is the costume designer blocked off different parts of the costume, which I really loved. But again, she's she's always kind of in the same type of silhouette each time, even when she's at home. So always this idea of needing to look perfect, always being perfect. And she talks a lot about that. She's the one that's the oldest. So she always sets the example for everyone else. Sarah Timm Right. Jojo Siu This is another picture. And again, this is sort of the way that they differentiated, you know, Monday from Thursday later on, because Thursday also ends up in a dress very similar to this, but the different cut outs is how the costume designer was able to show difference. So, I think Thursday doesn't have the pink on top, it's just the the darker pink and fuchsia on the sides. Alright, so this is Tuesday. So again, kind of the very hippie dress, she's got a lot of off-the-shoulder kind of baggy sweaters, she's always wearing sort of the hippy skirts. It's a very boho look. And again, she always wears a ton of bracelets and a ton of rings. And her hair is always in two pigtails. And she's, again, the only one with red hair. Yeah, so this is just another kind of close-up picture of that soft draped sweater that she has. Okay, so Wednesday, again, is our workout girl, she's always in a black hoodie, and some sort of sports bra, and sweat pants. Most of her scenes are her jogging, or punching a punching bag in the apartment. And when she goes out, so this is after they found out that Tuesday has been taken. Tuesday's eye has been sent back to the house with... Sarah Timm Oh Jojo Siu ...agents to kill them. And so Wednesday is the first one who goes out on Wednesday and tries to escape in order to find out more information because this is when they find out that the co worker has some sort of blackmail on them. So she goes to try and find out what's happened. And of course, she's being chased around the city at this point. Because she knows that they're after her. A lot of agents have been sent after her to try and kill her. And so the other three sisters--it's Tuesday, Friday and Thursday--the tech nerd at home is basically helping her figure out where to go, how to escape all of this stuff. And she gets so close to escaping and she ends up obviously getting killed, but it's the saddest way to get killed. So all of it, of course is very athletic. She gets the most athletic time because you know, she's working out all the time. So she does the most punching and running. Sarah Timm You would think that if they have to make sure that they havethe same zits and stuff that one of them working out more than the others would be an issue. Jojo Siu Yeah, exactly. Sarah Timm Why does she have a bicep? Jojo Siu Yeah. The dress does hide a lot of their outfit. Sarah Timm I guess she's not in a midriff top when she goes to work. Jojo Siu Exactly. Most of the shape is hidden. But yeah, it's mostly face shape. You know, obviously after this scene, when she goes out on her day, she's kind of gone off the deep end. She's like, "I'm not even going to bother wearing the dress anymore", because she's got so gotten cut up at this point. They've somehow defeated the first round of agents. So her coming into this is just, "I just need to find out what's happened". And so she's kind of gone out and gone rogue a little bit. But at this point, they also know CAB realizes that there are seven of them and is trying to kill them. Sarah Timm Right. Jojo Siu So she's kind of the first one out there. So this is just some other running shots. But again, you can see she's just, you know, her athletic day, I guess, of her just running everywhere. And there's another one. Again, just kind of showing all the T-shirts and hoodies that she wears. Alright, so Thursday, again, very much the rebel. They show some flashback scenes of her when she is a child. And she's the first one that actually kind of messes up the system. And she talks a lot about that when she kind of confronts Monday at the very end. But there's a big scene where, as a child, she actually escapes. When it's someone else's day, she goes out andskateboards, and then comes back after the dad has realized she's gone missing. She's out there and everyone else has returned. And she comes back with her finger hanging off because she got into a skateboarding accident. And so of course, because her fingers cut, hanging off, the grandfather ends up having to cut all the other siblings fingers off. So there's this whole like, you know, this big scene just talking about the seriousness of like, Whatever happens to one of you has to happen to everybody. And she's always the one that's like, :I want to get out of the system. Why are we doing this? None of us are living a real life". Sarah Timm Right. Jojo Siu But she is also the one that ends up...I thought I had more pictures of her. Unfortunately, I don't. There were very few pictures of her, but again, she's always the one in black. A lot of tech gear. And when I say tech gear, I mean theater tech wear: black t-shirt, black pants, black combat boots. Sarah Timm like she's a stagehand. Jojo Siu Yeah, exactly. So then Friday is our--like I said--tech geek nerd. And she's always in these kind of oversized sweaters or oversized flannels, and everything is very hidden about her. And she's she basically is the tech geek that gets everyone, you know, where they need to go at the very end. And she and Friday do end up lasting kind of the longest. Until Thursday finally escapes. So sorry, Thursday is our Pixie girl. And then she finally, in order to let Thursday escape, she actually sacrifices herself at the very end, which is really sad. But she talks about how she needed this family. "I'm not like the rest of you. You guys are all independent, and you could do your own thing. But I never thrived without you. And like I wouldn't survive without you". So she decides to sacrifice herself instead. And takes out some of the CAB agents with her. And then we get to Saturday. Sarah Timm I love her hair! Jojo Siu So cute. So Saturday--She's always kind of a schmoozer. So whenever she's at work, she's the one that's really great at networking. She's really great at going to parties. They have this whole thing in the very beginning where she comes back and pukes in one of the buckets and so the guy at the front desk is like, "how do you do it? You were puking yesterday, and today, you look so fresh". And that was Sunday walking out. Sarah Timm Right. Jojo Siu And so of course, it was this idea that she also didn't share all the information with everybody. But you actually find out that even though she talks big about sleeping with everyone, she actually is a virgin, because you find out she runs into the guy that Monday is in love with and has been sleeping with for months. And she doesn't realize that he doesn't know it's not her or that it's not "Monday". So she tries to also find out information about what's happened to "Monday" by pretending to be "Monday" from within. So anyways, it's this whole thing where all the sisters sacrifice for one another, which I just thought was really interesting. But again, she's always in some kind of pink hoodie or really bright red kind of bra or bralette and some kind of jeans. This is one of the last scenes and you can see here, this is Thursday, and this is Monday. And so this is where you find out that Monday has basically betrayed all of them. Thursday is trying to save everyone and get her out. But you find out that, obviously, she has signed off this contract to basically protect her babies. Okay, and then just a couple other shots. You can kind of see here again Thursday, she's always in black. She's also got a black hoodie, very similar to Wednesday. And then you can see the yellow kind of oversized cardigan, and the really bland colors on Friday. And then the pink, and she's always wearing some sort of denim and the red bra for Saturday. And then I believe this was the last one that I pulled, but I wanted to pull the last little quick image of the grandpa and then one of the kids when they're doing the training at the very beginning. And I just wanted to pull this image because again when they got into the street--so this is the first day that he finally lets the first kid go out into the street. So prior to this, he hasn't let any of them leave the house. Sarah Timm Wow. Jojo Siu They've all been confined to the home to try and learn, you know, what their skills are. And also make sure that, you know, they understand the system; that they only can go out one day at a time. And it's funny to me that they're still wearing that dark blue blazer. This idea that they belong to the masses. And I think that was something that the costume designer talked about, too, you know, "I picked a color that kind of blended into the mass and didn't stand out because they needed to kind of disappear. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu And also the fact that Willem DaFoe was in grandpa's comfort wear. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu In all grays. So interestingly enough, when he's training them, there's quite a few shots with him in actually more vibrant colors. And at one point, he's actually wearing that yellow sweater that Friday's wearing, which I thought was really lovely. Sarah Timm That's cute. Jojo Siu But, you know, the rest of the time he's wearing these blacks and grays. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu And you don't really ever find out what's happening to him either. So it's a little sad, but you know, they don't really go further into that side story. I think that was the last of it. So again, not too many photos for this one. But I just, you know, how do you make seven different characters with the same actress? And how do you make them all look different enough and have their own character? I mean, Noomi is pretty amazing. She was basically acting against herself for most of it. And she mentioned that this was one of the hardest products she's ever done, because she didn't have other actors to work off of or to bounce ideas off. She had to create who that other actor was going to be. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu And that carried over, I think, into her conversations with a costume designer as well, right? Sarah Timm They probably use--lots of times when they're doing stuff like that they use like a body double, but it's not someone who's going to be acting and giving you the same energy that a fellow actor would give you. Jojo Siu Right, right. Yeah. And they did us a couple body doubles. But I think, you know, it definitely was like, "I had to figure out who all those characters were". And I think she said she actually secluded herself for five or six months, so that she could get into the headspace of who these characters were. She was like, "it was really hard because I couldn't talk to anybody for five or six months". And I was like... Sarah Timm Commitment. Jojo Siu "That's worse than quarantine! Sarah Timm I feel like we always hear about famous male actors who goes super method. Why aren't we talking about Noomi Rapace? Clearly she's... Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm Super method. She's committed. Wow. Jojo Siu But yeah, and you definitely see how different the little ticks are in each of her characters, even for this movie. So yes, I would highly suggest it. Again, the story plot--there's a lot of plot holes. So I think that's what a lot of critics have said about this movie. And again, it is very close to whatever the episode of "Black Mirror" was... Sarah Timm I was thinking it sounds like "Orphan Black". Jojo Siu Maybe that's what it is. Maybe they meant "Orphan Black". I could have...misquoted that. Sarah Timm "I've seen "Black Mirror", but it's been a long time since I've seen certain episodes. So it might be an older one that I don't remember. Jojo Siu Yeah, that's true. Sarah Timm Orphan Black is the one where Tatiana Maslany plays clones. Jojo Siu Oh, yes, then that's the one. Sorry, I misquoted that. So it's definitely "Orphan Black". But yeah, I know, they took it off with some other idea because that was one of the big criticisms that they got. They were like, "well, it's nothing new. And the storyline is kind of unfinished." Sarah Timm Interesting. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm Interesting concept. Jojo Siu Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely one of those movies that I kind of stumbled across and then I was like pleasantly surprised. Sarah Timm Cool. Well, great job! Jojo Siu Thank you! Sarah Timm Okay, are we ready for me? This was a request--my movie that I'm covering. My dear friend Christie messaged us and requested this movie, I think, over Instagram. I'm covering "Tron: Legacy", which is a movie I hadn't seen since it came out. And I forgot how fun it is. It's very fun. So, a little bit of background. It's this is a Disney movie. So take with that what you will. It's directed by Joseph Kosinski. And this movie is his directorial debut, which blew my brains. I could not believe that this high budget and big of a movie was somebody's directorial debut. And I I did a little googling because I was like, How on earth did he get the job, then... Jojo Siu Yeah! Sarah Timm ...if he's never directed anything? so I found a New York TimesNew York Times article that says, and this is a direct quote, "it sounds corny, but it all started back in 2007, with one guy who believed in him--Shawn Bailey, a Disney producer, who was trying to figure out how to reinvent Tron. Mr. Bailey had heard through the Hollywood grapevine about a director of commercials, which is Joseph Kosinski, who had an unusual visual style." And the article kind of went into how this happens sometimes with really big studios; they'll give a big budget movie to somebody who has only done a few commercials. And some people think it's because a first time director will be easier to control by a big studio, you know. A bigger name will come in with an artistic vision and be like, "Well, I'm not conforming to your corporate Disney whatever. I'm going to do what I want." But then also, like, the more optimistic view of that is, it doesn't matter, your resume if you have the right vision and the right, you know, artistic gumption to go and get it. But I will say that, like, I don't think that if he This might sound cynical, but I think that like, especially in 2010, when this movie came out, I don't think if he were non white, and not a man that he would have gotten this big of a chance. Jojo Siu Agreed. Sad, but true. Sarah Timm Yeah. When I've heard of that kind of thing happening, where it's like, oh, my god, he's only directed five music videos. And they gave him a superhero movies indirect like it's usually a white man that they're talking about, unfortunately. So yeah, that was an interesting thing to learn. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm Yeah. The costumes were co-designed. So two people--Christine...Christine, Bieselin Clark. I'm just gonna say that's how you pronounce that, who has worked on "Star Trek Picard", "Maze Runner" and "Ender's Game". And then the other designer is Michael Wilkinson, whose name you might recognize because he did "Jingle Jangle". Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm So he's done a lot of Zack Snyder's like "Justice League" franchise movies, "Aladdin", "300" and "Garden State". Jojo Siu "Oh Garden State". I haven't seen that movie in so long. Sarah Timm That's a good one. So yeah, interesting. I think it kind of makes sense that like two people do the costumes. This is it's, it seems like a very collaborative design these costumes, because like, the visual style of the movie is so distinct that like the production design, and the costume design, and the special effects are all kind of hand-in-hand. So it's a real team effort. It seems just, that's just my view of it. So let's begin. This is... Yay! ...the beginning of the movie. Oh, I will say I have not seen the first "Tron". So Neither have I. So one of my first notes was, "I need someone to explain to me what the grid is, because I still don't quite really know." I don't know. Jojo Siu I am probably just as lost as you are. So I don't know that I'd be much help. Sarah Timm It's a virtual reality space. That's what I've, that's as far as I got. It's like a computer--digitized--but it's like a world you can enter, but it's in the computer. Jojo Siu That was a very good explanation, Sarah. Sarah Timm Thanks so much. So this is the opening. Basically, the basic plot is: Jeff Bridges who's in the first "Tron" was the founder of this, sort of, tech company. But he went missing in 1989. And his son is now technically the head of the company, but isn't involved at all, I think, and he's kind of like a rebel guy, he doesn't care about the company. And it seems like these people--the suits--are interested in making money and exploiting the technology. Whereas Jeff Bridges--his character, Flynn--was interested in open source software and making it available for everybody and sharing it. So that's kind of where we come in, is in this board meeting, where they're gonna release this program, I don't know, whatever computer thing. Jojo Siu We are so not sci-fi, tech nerds, Sarah Timm Computer thing, great. Jojo Siu Whatever that is. Sarah Timm So I this boardroom scene is interesting to me, because they're all wearing the same color, which is sort of like a slate gray, black. And it's funny to me, because, you would think that we would really want to differentiate this world--the real world--from the grid that we enter later, but the color scheme is kind of the same, which is kind of funny. And interesting that the corporate world doesn't look that different from the sci-fi computer world. I didn't realize that I would sound so dumb describing this movie. Jojo Siu It's okay, you and me both. I was like, I can't help you with any of those technology terms. Sarah Timm It doesn't really matter to my understanding, like costumes, I think, right? I don't feel too bad about it. Okay, so this is actually Killian Murphy who I was like, Killian Murphy's in this movie? Jojo Siu Jojo: I almost didn't recognize him. Sarah Timm Apparently he's uncredited, this is an uncredited cameo appearance. Yeah! Jojo Siu Uncredited? Sarah Timm I know Jojo Siu Did HE put that in or did someone else? Sarah Timm Did he wander by the set one day? How did this come about? He was just like walking by in the scene and said "Okay, I'll be that dude." But this look is interesting because he looks different from everybody else because he's like the young, hotshot guy. And this already looks very dated to me, even though it's only 10 years old, and I think it's the hair. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm It's very floppy Jojo Siu I was gonna say it's that very wind swept look for guys Sarah Timm Yeah. That sort of Justin Bieber, Zac Efron, late 2000s...*hand motion* Jojo Siu I love how THIS is, ...This is the hands motion Hand motion over the forehead to portray the bangs. Sarah Timm Yeah. And you can tell he's so cool because he's not wearing a blazer, unlike everyone else. He's so cool. Jojo Siu Less layers, equals cool. Sarah Timm My arms are out so I'm cool. Moving on. So, this is Alan and apparently he's in the first "Tron" as well. So he was like Flynn's right hand man, kind of guy. And he comes to Sam the son with his pager and he's like "I got a page from your dad". And it's like, what? First of all, you got a page in 2010? Okay. And I like his look because he's bringing with him sort of the old school, into the modern day, sort of like a rumpled trench coat, almost film noir because his collars up a little bit, Detective-y sort of land he brings an air of mystery right? Because he's like, "I got a page from your dad who's been missing since 1989. You should go to the arcade to see where the signal's coming from or whatever. So he basically gets the plot going, and I like that the person with the mystery looks like a Noir detective. I think that's kind of a fun little touch. Jojo Siu Yeah it was a lot of Noir in this movie, and I don't think I thought about that until you said that. Sarah Timm I think, yeah, ...is sci fi noir a thing because that could be Jojo Siu ...It could be, because they definitely bring in elements of that kind of Noir,like 1930s. I think of like the 1930s Film Noir. But yeah, I definitely feel like I don't know that I realized that until I was looking at this picture again. I was like "oh yeah!" Sarah Timm I think he is the most Noir out of the characters for sure. Jojo Siu Trench coat definitely says that, Sarah Timm Yes, yes. And I also like how he's less corporate, you know, but he's sort of--I don't know what color exactly this trench coat is; it looks brown in this picture, I'm not sure if it is--He looks a little bit earthier, you know, so he's not the corporate greed machine that everybody else at the company is. He's still got the original vision in his heart. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm so this is Sam, the son, before he goes into the grid. This is his everyday look. And I, I like it. I think it's a little bit generic, it's a little bit like Disney version of a bad boy. Which makes sense because it's a Disney movie. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm I wrote in my notes that I think if this movie was made today this outfit would have more personality than it does in this. I like the aging of the jacket, maybe it was his dad's, you know. It's old, but otherwise, he's just kind of wearing jeans and a hoodie and I feel like he could have something, you know, a little bit of pattern. Jojo Siu Yeah Sarah Timm ...little bit more texture to kind of, because I really don't know anything about him still after watching. Jojo Siu Right Sarah Timm he doesn't have that much of a personality to speak of. So, I think he... Jojo Siu Does he wear this the whole time? Sarah Timm He wears it for the whole opening scene, but once it gets into the grid they put him into a light suit. Jojo Siu Right, right. Okay. Sarah Timm So this is all we get to see of like his own wardrobe. So Jojo Siu yeah, Sarah Timm This is it? And later in this shot, he's in the front right here. It's blurry, but he's just wearing a gray t shirt and I'm like, Jojo Siu very indistinct Sarah Timm You couldn't at least do like what transformers did and Shia LaBeouf was wearing like a "Strokes" t-shirt. Like it couldn't even be like a Rolling Stones t-shirt or something. It had to just be a solid gray--that makes me sad. Jojo Siu I wonder how much of this was budget too though, although it's...you know, it's Disney, so I don't really know. Because I know sometimes with other brand names, you have to be really careful that you're not stuck with a copyright but it's Disney. So you think they'd have a lot more budget Sarah Timm A stripe? or a Plaid? Jojo Siu Yeah, some kind of pattern. Sarah Timm A color? I don't know, maybe it's to communic-I mean, he's supposed to be like the rebel though, so hhe shouldn't fit in with the nondescript corporate-ness and he lives in this cool, under the bridge, apartment thing. So I think he could be cooler, his outfit could be cooler. That's all. Okay, so here we are in the grid. Welcome, Jojo Siu So different. Sarah Timm So this is him. He basically enters the grid by accident and then just kind of gets ferried along to different places and things happen to him and he's not he has no agency things are justbeing done to him. So this is them getting him ready to compete in some sort of games against other things on the light cycles and stuff. These characters--these female characters are called "sirens", which I was like, of course they are. Sure, Jojo Siu yeah. Sarah Timm And they basically are in charge of outfitting him for, for the games, and I feel a bit conflicted about the female characters in this movie, because they seem pretty over-sexualized in their appearance. But I had to remind myself that like this digital world was made by a man in the 80s, technically. So like... Jojo Siu Right Sarah Timm ...if it's all this one guy his vision, and he's just a straight dude in the 80s Of course he's like "well, the girls and it all have to be super sexy, you know" Jojo Siu Right, right. Sarah Timm I don't know, I don't I'm still not sure how I feel about it because I was just like, why? what? You know, you can kind of see on the right here, this little shell thing. They basically come out of these little holes in the wall. And this little door closes over them and theyhibernate, until it's time again, and the shell that closes over them, has boobs on it, it's like molded to look like a lady's body. Jojo Siu Yeah Sarah Timm So it's things like that was like did we have to do that I don't think we did. Jojo Siu That part was unnecessary. Sarah Timm And even their, their outfits so they're unitard, you can see on this second-from-the-right girl. It has the outline of almost bikini underwear, and none of the men's costumes have an outline. Jojo Siu Right, right. Sarah Timm So it's...And then they're wearing these high heels and it's like why would that be a thing? Why do they need high heels? Is it because Flynn designed this world and was like, "the gotta be hot." I don't know. Jojo Siu Yeah, yeah, exactly. The 80s. Sarah Timm Yeah I mean it's is it like is it supposed to be like the 80s vision of a future and if so then yeah it makes sense. Jojo Siu Right. Sarah Timm And I have a shot of the high heeled too, which is very interesting--has a bar thing on it. Jojo Siu Yeah, it's crazy because I think on the one on the right it looks shorter, and then on the one on the left, it looks taller, and I don't understand. Yeah, 'cause her... yeah her heels are shorter! Sarah Timm Also hers looks like it doesn't have the... Jojo Siu Doesn't have the bar. Sarah Timm It doesn't look like the same girl... Jojo Siu Yeah, Sarah Timm That's weird. Maybe she was taller than the other one? Maybe they had to make them all the same height. And they were like nobody... Jojo Siu Oh yeah. Like at least in the image, they needed to look the same height. Sarah Timm Yeah, because I think they're supposed to be...you know, they're digitized, they're not real humans. They're digitized right programs or whatever they're called. So... Jojo Siu right, Sarah Timm they had to be the same. But, yeah, maybe that was to make them all the same height. Because that girl comes back later, she has a speaking role. Jojo Siu Oh, okay. Sarah Timm I don't know. Yeah. Interesting. Jojo Siu Interesting. Sarah Timm So here's Sam and his life suit, I have a couple shots of it. It's cool. These, I think that these costumes are very successful these light suits. It doesn't look new to us now, but I remember in 2010 thinking like how cool and futuristic it looked. Jojo Siu Yeah, I remember that too. Sarah Timm And I have some information about how they were made because I was like... Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm Is the light, practical? And the answer is yes! Which blew my mind! Jojo Siu So cool! Sarah Timm All the light on all the costumes is practical. It's real; it's not added in CG. Yeah, Jojo Siu I love that it's like. Sarah Timm So I watched... Jojo Siu Was it like E-L wire? Sarah Timm Well I'll read to you! I watched some YouTube videos and I'll link the YouTube video that I watched because it's really interesting to see them sort of like building them, they had a couple shots of their shop. So, this is from Wikipedia, "the skin-tight suits are reminiscent of the outfits worn by the actors in the original film. They designed the lighting costumes, which used electro-luminescent lamps, derived from a flexible polymer film, and featured hexagonal patterns, the lights pass through the suit via light tape, says something about lamination and phosphorus I don't understand. To make it a different color, they put different colors of vinyl. Prior to lamination, so apparently... this kind of...I thought about this too was, nowadays you can get fiber optic fabric and lights can basically be fabric now, which is amazing. But in 2010, flexible light that you could use in costumes was a really new idea, so they basically....it was a very new invention and they had to kind of just like figure it out as they went along, because they didn't Jojo Siu Yeah Sarah Timm they were talking in this behind the scenes thing about how they didn't know how they would make flexible lights and I was like, don't they make strips that you can put on whatever? And then I was like... Jojo Siu Yeah I was gonna say, LED tape is very available now. Sarah Timm Yeah, so that must be, you know like within the last 10 years that that has been so common and easy to get. So, it was just fascinating to me I was just thinking this is great! Jojo Siu Leave it up to Disney to be the first ones to figure it out though! Sarah Timm right. So, these suits were kind of like a collaboration between the special effects department and the costuming department, because, the shell part, especially the torsos, they're made out of foam latex, so they're basically sculpted. If you've ever watched "Face Off" the special effects makeup show where they sculpt, and then they mold foam latex, it's basically like that, where you pour it into a mold and peel it out and it's one piece, you know, and then they applied the lights and stuff, and then they would have fabric Jojo Siu Wow Sarah Timm ...suits underneath. I know can you believe? Jojo Siu So many layers! Sarah Timm Yes! Jojo Siu It's why you gotta have a big budget for this movie! Sarah Timm Good segue, because the blonde lady from that siren scene, who talks about her. Her character's name is Gem. She said, it showed her sort of getting dressed and she said that there was, they're basically wearing four layers, so their first layer is foundation garments so the women would be in sort of like a waist cincher and you know Spanx and stuff to hold you in. And then there was a, just a body suit over that. And then there was the electronics layer, and then there was sort of like a latex-y outer layer that felt sort of like balloon rubber, apparently on hers, and the sirens. Jojo Siu So....they're giant....condoms? Sarah Timm Well, it showed what behind-the-scenes and one of them was getting wiped down. Somebody was shining it with a cloth. Jojo Siu Oh gosh, that just sounds so crazy. I mean these look phenomenal, they don't look like they're wearing four layers of clothing, right. I can't imagine what that feels like. Sarah Timm I mean Beyonce literally wears three layers of tights doesn't she? So, you do you have to. Jojo Siu True, true. Sarah Timm So yeah! Jojo Siu That's funny. Sarah Timm I mean, it literally blew my mind to watch that. I would encourage everybody to watch the video. And the other important thing is that this is a digital world, so the clothes don't exist in a real way so they had to think about what clothes would look like if they weren't made like clothes. How does...What do clothes look like if they haven't been sewn together? If they've just been Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm Created out of... Just been created out of pixels. Pixels...Yeah, so they tried to hide seams. There was no visible closures, no buttons and zippers, stuff like that, because, as you can see in the picture with the sirens it just materializes on to him, you know. He doesn't need to step into it, in the movie. Just...It's super fascinating. I learned a lot, Jojo Siu So cool. Sarah Timm ...On this, Jojo Siu I mean this is why we all thought it was so exciting when we saw this movie because it was just, it really was nothing we had ever seen. Sarah Timm Yes, yeah. Jojo Siu So yeah, it's pretty cool. Sarah Timm Yeah, I think cynically I was like well it's all probably CG, you know. And then I watched it and I was, I felt, you know, I felt so much excitement and wonder, like it wasn't just digital. So, moving on. Jojo Siu Sorry I side-tracked us. Sarah Timm This is "Clue". Yeah Clue, which is like a version of Jeff Bridges, but it's like a computer that just looks like him and I pulled this because I hate the young face that they did. It.... Even now... Jojo Siu It's sooo creepy. Sarah Timm Yes, it looks like a SIM and even now, when they do the aging down digitally, I've never seen that and been like, "well that's convincing and not creepy". It's ALWAYS creepy to me. So I pulled that just so everybody else can be creeped out as well together. I love this outfit, it's very Kylo Ren, Darth Vader, but Tron version it's like a cool asymmetrical cloak with...and he has yellow light, and I think that the colors of light had something to do with their ranks, you know. I didn't, super look into what was what. But you know, the regular programs have just white and then he and his right-hand man over here kind of have different colors. And then I got this of it on display, so that we can kind of see more what it looks like. Jojo Siu Yeah, I was curious was the other side of that jacket looked like. Sarah Timm Yeah, and it's funny because it looks... Jojo Siu It's so crazy it looks like paper. Sarah Timm I know it looks a little bit cheesy just, you know, it looks like masking tape or something. Jojo Siu Right, Sarah Timm but in the in the movie, it looks so rad, Jojo Siu so crazy. Sarah Timm Yeah, I want to wear one. Jojo Siu I know. Disney can you rent out some of your Tron outfits so that we can just have a dress up day? Sarah Timm Can I borrow it um....real quick, real quick, just like five minutes. Jojo Siu I just need like a selfie andthen and then I'll be good. Sarah Timm Did I read anything else I don't think I did. I just wrote he looks very evil. There's something about a long black coat that looks pretty evil. So this is Cora played by Olivia Wilde. Jojo Siu She's so pretty. Sarah Timm She's one of like, you know, five women that we see. Those are my feelings on that. She's one of two who speaks. Jojo Siu Let's pause and hesitate... for a moment of silence, Sarah Timm and I feel kind of the same about her as I do about the sexy siren girls, which is like...Yes, her outfit looks really good--she looks great--but did it have to be...you would think in a future world where gender doesn't really matter that outfits between men and women would look more similar, but like I said, if Flynn invented it, and he was a straight man and he wants to see sexy women then the women look sexy. So, here's the classic shot of her on the weird couch thing. And of course she's in a high heel. She has, you know what, what else do we expect? And then she has a cold shoulder and nobody else has a shoulder cut out. So I thought that was interesting. Jojo Siu Yeah, some differences. Sarah Timm I like her hair a lot, too. Jojo Siu I like the asymmetrical being. Sarah Timm Yeah, I think that haircut is really cute. And interestingly, she and Gem--the other woman--both wear really heavy, black eye makeup. And this is another thing, where if they made a "Tron" today, I think more of the men would be in makeup too, 'cause I think that today we're more free and open with gender expression in a way where, I think if we were inventing a cool sci-fi world where there was cool makeup, it would be on all genders of people, not just women. Jojo Siu It makes me think of...well, just because you were saying that, I was thinking of Aqua Man, because, he wears so much eye make-up. Sarah Timm I've heard that that's a fun sort of like campy movie. Jojo Siu It is...it...the storyline is like, whatever. I wouldn't watch it from that but, he's definitely got some dark eye makeup. It's very Egyptian-looking almost, 'cause he's got like the Kohl, you know, kind of outline of the eye. Sarah Timm Well Jason Momoa--him in a smoky eye , I'll take that all day long. Jojo Siu Yeah, it looks very good on him. But yeah, it made me think of that when you said, it's more acceptable across genders, Sarah Timm Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm going to talk about Michael Sheen...well....no...in a second. When he wears makeup, but h e's also sort of like a flamboyant character so it's sort of, she was in this movie. Yeah, he's really good too. So this is Gem, the siren from before. And she kind of comes along to sort of help him get to his next destination or whatever and talk to the people he needs to talk to, to help his dad escape. Because he does find his dad, inside the grid. I feel like the details of the plot are not that important. We, you know Jojo Siu I don't remember much of this plot from this movie. Sarah Timm The plot is we're in the grid and we got to get out. That's basically it. Jojo Siu Yep. Sarah Timm I love. So where...did I pull--Yes. So this is how we see her approaching. She has this really cool clear umbrella. And this feels like a very direct "Blade Runner" reference for me, which I have not seen, but I know that they have light-up umbrellas in it. I know that It's been a very long time. We watched Blade Runner, at school. And I haven't seen the new one. But the old one messed me up so bad that I was like I don't know if I want to see the new one. It's just one of those--it's like--I don't know you feel very unsettled but in like a different way than a horror movie, you know what I mean. But yes, that was one of those movies that I walked out of that room being like, "I feel like my soul has been sucked from my body" Wow! I've seen some like feminist critique of it so it hasn't made me super excited to watch it just because I like watching feminist movies but I feel like as a reference point, it's kind of an important thing to know, you know to be familiar with. Jojo Siu yeah, there's a lot of film references that go back to Blade Runner. Yeah, which is why it was such a big deal, but yeah, it... Sarah Timm right Jojo Siu it makes you very sad at the very end. Sarah Timm I believe it. Jojo Siu 'Cause...everything is just sad in that movie. Sarah Timm Yeah, we'll get around to it eventually. Yeah so... Jojo Siu Maybe we'll make a movie night at that one. Sarah Timm That coud be fun! And then we can cover it... Jojo Siu If I watched it with someone else, maybe I would have like a redeeming something or other for that movie. Sarah Timm It would be one to watch it together as an activity for the podcast and then think about it. Jojo Siu yeah, absolutely. Sarah Timm Imagine. Jojo Siu Future podcast episode. Sarah Timm Future plans. Yeah so that that's...even though I haven't seen it, I know about the umbrella and the rain and Blade Runner so that feels like a little nod, a little homage. Yeah. And then she has this clear sort of rainbow thing which I thought was interesting, it's fun to see the play of light coming through it. And then there's her with her little bikini outline on her unitard Jojo Siu Of course. Sarah Timm Yeah. This is Michael Sheen. Jojo Siu Yes, I forgot about that. Now I remember his character. Sarah Timm Yeah, so his character name is Zeus, and he's kind of...He's a bad guy. He ends up being a bad guy, but at first we don't know he's a bad guy and he's kind of just at this party, at this sort of nightclub thing, where there's a Daft Punk cameo--very fun because they did the soundtrack--and he said that his character is sort of inspired by the MC from cabaret, or Dr Frankenfurter Jojo Siu I can see that. Sarah Timm Yeah, a little bit David Bowie, sort of flamboyant glam rock, sort of, circus-y guy, and I like how his outfit is obviously in the same world as everybody else's, but it's not exactly the same. He's got a unitard, but it's not as skin tight as everybody else's. It kind of looks more like what we know of as a tail coat. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm And see, like right there, it's got...It does have tails and then he's sort of wearing a flair. And a bit of a heel too, which is fun. Jojo Siu It's a little 1970s. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu But in.... Sarah Timm A little Ziggy Stardust, action. Jojo Siu Tech white. Sarah Timm Yeah. So I thought that was cool and apparently he could not really sit in his costume, which is interesting to me because it doesn't look like it's made out of something he couldn't sit in. Jojo Siu Skin tight. Sarah Timm But what do I know. Jojo Siu Right. Sarah Timm And then he has this lightup cane, which is really fun. It's, you can see right here, it's clear, and then it lights up and then he shoots lasers with it, which is kind of cool. So then this is a shot of his face, so you can see his got these crazy contacts and makeup and then, you know everybody is really pale, because there's a whole plot point with Cora where she's like, "what does the sun look like," you know, "I want to see the sun." Right, so they're all pale, Jojo Siu They don't know what it looks like. Sarah Timm They dont' know what the sun is. And then, this is my last costume I want to talk about. This is Flynn. So, I didn't talk about him much because I had to kind of edit myself down, I had too many pictures, but the costume designer said that he is more organic, whereas he's against this very tech non-organic backdrop. Everybody else looks very sci-fi and futuristic, and he looks a little bit earthier, and they said, "Eastern influence" I think and I can tell, kind of, because in this shot, this garment scene looks Asian, so that's interesting. Jojo Siu The double layering of the crossed...cross-body robe as well. Sarah Timm Yeah, but I love this cloak. So this cloak is just kind of a hooded cloak, but it has this facing of the light strip. So a facing is on the inside for those who don't know, it's sort of like this strip of fabric that folds to the inside of your garment. So here's a shot of just you know, with the hood so when he has his hood up, it just lights his face and I just think it's so freakin cool. I want one. Jojo Siu I feel like...there was a project that I wanted to do way back when, where I wanted a hood with just the inside lit up. Oh it was for "Into the Woods". Sarah Timm Oh. Jojo Siu I was trying to create a hood for for my witch that just had lights on the inside, and I wasn't even thinking about this, but now that I think about it I was like, "oh, maybe that's what I got the inspiration from." Sarah Timm I mean, it's a new idea, but it's not. I really love Disneyland parades, and I love when a light for the actor's face is incorporated into their costume so if it's a nighttime parade like the "Electrical Parade", or "Paint the night", the fairies will have a little antenna, and then the antenna have tiny little spotlights so that you can see the performers face at night. I love something like that that is very...it's practical. It has a function, but it's also really cool looking. Jojo Siu Yeah, that's like intentional, they make it look like it's part of it. Sarah Timm Yeah, it's part of the costume but it also serves a purpose and it just looks really rad, so it's like, ding ding ding you got all the things you need. Jojo Siu Yep! Exactly. Sarah Timm And then this coat has sort of a split. It has different panels and all of them are sort of outlined in it, so when he swishes around, you can see the light fans out, and it just looks really rad. Jojo Siu That part is really cool. I mean, the hood too, is very cool, but I like that he's got all the, all the edges kind of lit up. Sarah Timm I saw it and I was just like, *gasp! Jojo Siu So cool! Sarah Timm Let's see. Did I say anything else about...I think I pretty much covered everything. Yeah, I did. It was fun to watch this movie and like I said the plot: I didn't really pay super attention to it and I was just like "okay we're in the grid, we got to get out of the grid, I'll just look now at the costumes. It's a fun, you know sci-fi adventure sort of movie and that tidbit about the light on all the costumes being practical really made me have a new respect for it. Jojo Siu Yeah, for sure. It shows you a lot, I mean it's, it's different. It doesn't mean that CGI isn't also a lot of work but it's, it's different when you know that it's actually working on the costume, built into the process, as opposed to an after effect. Sarah Timm Yes, and I respect CGI artists so much. I saw this whole Twitter thread recently about how so many directors nowadays are using it as a point of pride to use less CG and act like they're not using CG, where in reality like CG can be used for anything from getting rid of pit stains, to fixing the color or something so acting like movies don't have CG when they do is kind of insulting to the artists who spend hours doing their work. So, I do respect CGI artists and obviously this movie has a ton of that in it. Jojo Siu Right. Sarah Timm But it is really exciting to know that there were other art types of artists who got to innovate and collaborate on this sort of new technology that ended up being used for the movie. Jojo Siu Yeah! Super exciting, and we should celebrate all that! Sarah Timm Yes, yeah, I mean everybody's role in the movie is really important, you know, down to the down to the grips and the PA's and stuff. Jojo Siu Absolutely! Sarah Timm That's the beauty of entertainment, is it really is always a group effort. Jojo Siu Yep, very true. Sarah Timm Yeah, so that's "Tron Legacy". Jojo Siu Yay! So exciting! We picked some good Sci-fi ones. Sarah Timm Yeah, this...this was a fun one! I liked both of these movies that we covered, Jojo Siu I have to rewatch this movie again it's been a while since I've seen it. Sarah Timm I was shook to find out that it is not on Disney plus, and the first one... Jojo Siu Really! Sarah Timm is, and then some animated Tron thing is also on there, and I was like "Excuse me! What?" Jojo Siu Theyr'e still under Disney right? Sarah Timm Yeah, so I watched it with a method I will not discuss. I did watch it. That's just being real there. Jojo Siu Thanks Sarah. Sarah Timm But it's not on Disney plus. I mean, at least it wasn't when I looked. Jojo Siu Yeah. Sarah Timm You know, a few days ago, Jojo Siu Well, maybe someone will hear this podcast and put it on. Sarah Timm Disney plus if you're listening, put it back. Jojo Siu Give us back our Tron Legacy. Sarah Timm People need to see it and look at the costumes! Jojo Siu All right, thank you so much, Sarah. That was so fun. Sarah Timm Thank you Jojo. Jojo Siu I'm glad we covered some fun movies today. Sarah Timm Yeah. Jojo Siu You know, even with the horror movie. Sarah Timm As always, get in touch. Let us know if you agree or disagree with us. Give us feedback, or requests: movies or TV shows or theater pieces, or even something else. I don't know SNL sketches, music videos, anything you Jojo Siu Yeah Sarah Timm want us to talk about, let us know. I know eventually we'll cover some non-traditional things I'm excited. Hopefully we'll have time, yeah, to record another bonus episode soon. And maybe Jojo Siu Yeah, definitely. Sarah Timm we can do a smaller something, because I definitely would love the opportunity to talk about BTS. Jojo Siu Always! Always, Sarah, I expected nothing less. Sarah Timm Thank you so much. Jojo Siu Oh yes. Yeah, please, keep writing us and keep reviewing us and keep spreading the word to your friends, we are nothing without our listeners. So we love having people chime in and give us comments and notes and just tell us more information because we're always learning. Sarah Timm Oh yeah, that's that's the whole, the fun part of this and also I say this to my friends and people who listen all the time. I'm like, I think we have something really good, and there is an audience for this, we just need to find them. So if you have people in your life who you think would enjoy this podcast, please share it with them. Jojo Siu Yes. Sarah Timm Get us into their ear holes. We would really appreciate it. Jojo Siu Absolutely. Thanks again, and we look forward to talking with you guys in two weeks. Sarah Timm Yep, see you then. Bye. Jojo Siu Bye. Sarah Timm Oh, I guess I can stop sharing my screen.
[OUTRO]
Jojo:
Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].
Sarah:
Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.
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blooddrop-palace · 4 years
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Project Updates - What to Look Forward To
<3 Hello all! I've realized (humbly) that I have a small following of very nice people that seem quite interested in what I've written so far, and after seeing some mutuals post update-status posts, I thought I should share what's going on with my projects, also. (Thanks for the encouragement, @queenmuzz!)
Updated Dec-10-20
Sons of Fortune
Probably somehow my main focus now, though I am steadily working on other works. Currently working on the “In Between” special short before I start on Chapter 12.
I would also like to talk a little bit about my plans for this story: if anyone has paid attention to this story's tags, yes, I am touching up on the plots of most of the games. In fact, all of them, and the anime. (I already dealt with DMC4. No, I will not tear apart Fortuna lol.) Not all relevant tags are in, yet, because small spoilers. It looks like it's going to be a long while before I even get to the Temen-ni-gru, though. (There is a reason why that event is getting pushed back.) I want to have fun with the family fluff that is the twins each learning how to parent, first. 
Hell Froze Over, and We Shall Reignite It
The drama of it all! Dante and Vergil are finally back from Hell, and Nero doesn’t even know his mother is now standing right in front of him. Meanwhile, even I’m anticipating seen how Snow and Dante is going to handle the obvious things currently unsaid... and I have a feeling a small measure of stupidity is still going to be involved.
Current chapter progress: Outline complete.
It's going to feel so interesting, shifting from "Fortune" back to Reignite. I get to write Sera and Vergil falling in love all over again, with a different set of circumstances. Whoa.
And, and... Nero meeting Sera... odd that I'm saying this as the writer, but I have a "I hope he likes his mom" feeling going on. 
Also, no doubt Dante's brain is going to 404 when he sees Snow. 
Nico prepares popcorn.
This is Not an Office Rom-Com
I have... about 8 new skits planned out. Nothing more written just yet.
That’s all I’m saying about this for now. =P
Hierarchy of Kings
Purely indulgent M/M romance of Vergil and an OC, existing all thanks to
@wordborne
Working on chapter 2. 
I know I said 3 chapters only. I might have lied depending on how much I want to write. It's supposed to be just... awkward fluff of a listless part-devil who somewhat-recently lost his mate, got in a bit of a tiff with his brother, and now his children are trying to set him up with the prospective-king-of-hell, Vergil. 
I think about this one a lot but I haven't written anything new for it yet, only because "Fortune" is taking over my life right now, haha.
Through the Lens of the Beholder
Okay, so...This story has no real plot. As a result, my drive for it is purely down to "if I think of a badass or cool photograph to describe." There is a TINY bit of plot. Only a little. And I don't know when I'll update. But this is why I'm trying not to START new projects. Four  is a lot already! But because this one is supposed to be simpler than the other two, I will most likely finish this one before the others, so I can open a new project. 
---------------
Speaking of new projects... Here are things ideas bouncing through my head:
- I still have a prompt from @maybeishouldwait sitting in my inbox. I WILL have it done one day, when I find the perfect way to write it. 
A whole, entirely royally late set of Dadgil week fics.  Yep. I want to write them. They just won’t be on time. 
Written in Ink
A plot-less post-DMC5 story. 
I say plot-less. There is a plot. The plot is:
Dante: Damn it, Verge, are you trying to turn my office into a zoo??
In which Vergil compulsively starts contracting strong demons he's defeated, left and right, because he's discovered "the joy of pets." The demons all take on a dark animistic form and things get wild. 
A Persona and DMC fusion/AU
I have no title for this yet, and I absolutely cannot start this one until I have finished one of my other big projects. This one will take a lot of big planning, because I am making a new plot, using the mechanics of Persona, with DMC characters and setup.
What I want to write, is a teenage Nero as the protagonist, trying to solve a mystery... probably starting with the sudden disappearance of his mother. (Most likely Sera.) And he meets a lot of "new" people, and even finds new family... and yes, he will find his dad. (I'm thinking he'll know about Vergil, though. At least in name and a photo? Isn't that an interesting difference?)
For those of you not familiar with Persona, the major theme I really want to play with is that of the protagonist growing as a person (and in power) by befriending different people that helps them grow as a person. Each party member and important NPC is represented by a Tarot Card, signifying the type of journey the protagonist (The Fool) "embarks" with that character. There is growth in both the protagonist and that characters. 
Again, this is ambitious to try and pull off... but it's in the back of my head. I'll focus on it once I've cleared some other stuff. 
Sugar Sweet
A somewhat short-chapter series reader fic... of a surgeon/doctor!reader (barely 30 and good at what you do) who often saves the lives of shady people (e.g. mafia) because you care about saving lives, not the politics. But you do make good money out of it. (Hey, you gotta be at least a bit morally ambiguous if you're going to deal with devils.)
You meet one mess of a young mercenary named Dante, who is totally not human and deals with things like having bullets healed into his back, and he can't reach them to cut them out. 
Dante doesn't care about bills for his office, or a lot of the debts in his life. You don't know where his money is going, or if he even makes much money at all (for the kind of specialty work he does? Money's going somewhere, but that's none of your business.)
You won't pay Dante's bills, or his debts, but he will accept pizza and ice cream. And new parts for his jukebox. And maybe a motorcycle. Or a new coat. Or a new car...
And you might complain to him about your dumb patients. Or just listen to him talk about his job. Or you two watch a movie together.
And this just continues. For years. 
Tokusatsu DMC fusion/AU
So. First thing's first: I'm a big fan of Sentai/Tokusatsu. What is that, you might ask? It's a Japanese genre, and if you're familiar with Power Rangers, that's derived from Sentai. 
Basically: Masked heroes with transformation gadgets, sometimes with motorcycles, fighting against evil. ("Magical girls" but strictly the opposite, a lot more physical combat involved, may involve upgrade gadgets, and not strictly limited to male heroes though mostly a male cast. Also not strictly for male-only audience. Girls like the eye-candy, too. :eyes-emoji:)
Why am I thinking about this?
Because I have found out that: Vergil's VA, Dan Southworth, was the Quantum Ranger (WHICH WAS RED). Nero's VA, Johnny Yong Bosch, was a Black Ranger and a Green Ranger. 
...And Dante's VA, Reuben Langdon, had a role in a Japanese Toku show as "B-Fighter Yanma" forever ago???? (HE WAS BLUE!!)
What am I going to do with this info? I'll let you know later. But my Sentai/Toku-loving little heart is about to burst with hyperfixation overlap. 
If I ever write this out, expect it to be just as cheesy as an actual Kamen Rider show. Or, at the very least, expect some art. I love Kamen Rider stuff!
Family Fantasy MMO
Snow introduces Dante, Vergil, Nero, and Kyrie to Final Fantasy 14 (because that’s the MMO I play) for family bonding. Yep. Mainly for silly indulgence.
Stardew Valley Visit
Post DMC5, Vergil and Dante accidentally end up going on a vacation when they try to leave Hell. No pairing with the farmer, but instead just a relaxing and somewhat introspective moment of the boys being stuck with most of their power temporarily sealed, learning how to take care of a farm, and maybe do a bit of healing by interacting with the townsfolk while they try to find out where their swords went and how to get home. 
Re-Colourize
Otherwise what I would call the “re-colour of Nero and Snow” AU. 
What if Vergil was found by Kassy’s family and raised among them? What if Dante ended up briefly in Fortuna and then convinced Sera to run away from the island?
What if we have a Nero who, though brash, is outwardly more soft and open-hearted, and has red-orange and gold colours instead? What if we have a Snow who is named Chiyuki, who wields her katana more like Vergil does, and has a more ice-queen aura about her, and has a teal and blue colouring about her?
This is my excuse to switch up the pairings, but also write Vergil being taught to fight more like an assassin. 
Raised by the Blade
Imagine: Yamato, cracked, broken, and separated from her Master... desperately searching for a way to get back to him, and ended up washed up on the shores of Fortuna. Humanoid, but clearly not if anyone saw the cracked, broken, and no-normal look of “shattered” in her torso, that she would have to keep covered. 
Made from the power of Sparda, she is pale with white hair... and she finds herself drawn to the orphanage...
Where she finds the toddler that is Nero.
Devil Hunters’ Podcast
Nico “accidentally” finds entertainment in recording the Sparda Family arguments as they talk about hunting; after all, they all share one braincell. 
Ascended Monochrome
A white angel remains by the side of Nelo Angelo. Mundus was not pleased by the behavior of his second creation, from the human woman that he had picked up with the treacherous Son of Sparda. But he later discovered that by using her, he could keep Nelo Angelo complacent. Eventually, underestimating love will be his downfall.
Fall to Royalty
A story of where Vergil wins against Mundus the first time, and takes the throne of Hell. But what is he to do next? Eventually, ruling Hell seemed meaningless when there was no one by his side, so he goes to seek out the Lady Knight that he had vowed to never think of or go back to unless he had obtained the power he sought.
Doppelganger Woes
So, I heard Capcom retconned Gilver to be some sort of imitation created by Mundus. I’m all for this! And I’m going to DO something with this.
Side-Project: DMC Tarot List
I started on this maybe months ago; and I have a tentative list oh what characters go with what card and a few detailed descriptions. I think I should confer with
@harlot-of-oblivion
at some point about this, and anyone else interested in, well, Tarot stuff. 
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stereogeekspodcast · 3 years
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[Transcript] Season 1, Episode 3. What’s New – The New Mutants
We had thoughts about The New Mutants, few of them good. There were some enjoyable moments, which we discuss, along with sharing our thoughts on what could have been better. 
Spoiler alert: we will be talking about the entire film.
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Content warning: some of the content in the film can be triggering, please proceed with caution.
Listen to the episode on Anchor.
[Continuum by Audionautix plays]
Ron:  Hello and welcome to Episode Three of Stereo Geeks. Today we'll be talking about what’s new in pop culture.
Mon: I’m Mon.
Ron: I'm Ron.
Mon: And this week we’re talking about The New Mutants.
Ron: This is a spoiler alert because we’ll be talking about the entire film, including the ending, so if you haven’t watched it yet, please watch the whole thing and then come back and listen to our podcast.
Please note, we will be discussing some triggering topics as contained within the film so, proceed with caution.
Ron: This film was initially intended for release in 2018, having been filmed in 2017, but it languished in production hell till 2020.
Mon: This year, it finally hit theaters, but because it was in the middle of the pandemic, most of us didn't go and watch it. Now that it's out on digital, we have some thoughts.
The film begins with Danielle Moonstar, played by Blu Hunt escaping the decimation of her village. She wakes up in a rehabilitation center, which is for mutants.
She is one of five students being supervised by Dr Cecilia Reyes, played by Alice Braga. The other students are Illyana Rasputin, played by Anya Taylor Joy; Rahne Sinclair by, played by Maisie Williams, Roberto Da Costa, played by Henry Zaga, and Sam Guthrie, played by Charlie Heaton. Let's talk about plot!
The film follows Dani as she gets to know these other mutants around her, tries to figure out what her power is, and tries to survive Dr Reyes’ experiments. Ron: There isn't much plot to speak of. It's very much a setup film, though there isn't any reason for us to believe that there's going to be a New Mutants 2. The majority of the film is spent with Danielle getting to know her fellow mutants and exploring their relationships. Though I would say that even there, the film doesn't really do a great job.
Mon: Yeah, there's a huge focus on the central relationship between Dani and Rahne. But the other characters, they're more antagonistic or just in the background. So it doesn't really develop her relation with them.
Ron: Yes, it comes across very much like the new girl being bullied, especially by Illyana though, that really doesn't do justice to the character as she appears in the comics. So, that was a bit of a surprise. Speaking of the backstories of these characters, we would say that really Rahne is the only one who has a similar backstory to the one that she has in the comics.
Mon: In the comics, Rahne comes from a small, very rigid, very religious community, and they freak out when she turns into a werewolf, because of her mutation. That backstory remains the same in the film, except now she’s been branded as a witch.
Ron: I didn't mind that particular inclusion. I think that made sense within the scope of the story. The other characters, there is no similarity between their stories in the film, and how we got to know them in the comic books.
Mon: Let's start with Dani herself. Why is there no mother in the picture? Ron: In the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline, which this movie is based on, Dani loses both her parents, and that actually does play a very large part in the conclusion. But the film only focuses on her father in the very opening scene, which was not edited very well, and we see him later on as well. Mon: Let's talk about Roberto.
Ron: I have to say I was so, so disappointed in Roberto Da Costa in this film. Sunspot was my favorite new mutant and the character in the film doesn't resemble the comic book character at all. Especially not his backstory which plays such an important part in not only his mutant powers, but the way he engages with the world.
Mon: I think the first warning that they wouldn't be doing ‘Berto correctly was the casting of Henry Zaga.
Ron: I'm sure Zaga is a very good actor. I haven't seen him in anything else, but I'm sure he's very talented. Unfortunately, he doesn't look anything like Sunspot in the comics. There is one integral part of his character arc that is completely missing from this film because Zaga has been cast in it.
Let me explain. In the comics, Roberto Da Costa belongs to a very rich family. He doesn't really understand his privilege. But he is also very dark skinned. Because of this, despite his privilege, he is bullied. It is while being bullied by fellow classmates that his powers activate.
Mon: ‘Berto in the comics is Afro-Latino, but they refused to cast character an actor who reflected the same heritage in the film, and that really does him a great disservice. Because race is an important part of ‘Berto’s characterization in the comics, but it's completely forgotten and the backstory that Berto is given in the film is boring. It is staid and it is another example of fridging.
Ron: In the film, Sunspot’s powers activate when he is having a romantic moment with his girlfriend, thus killing her in the most awful way possible. So, not only do they erase an extremely important part of his characterization, but they fridge his girlfriend who is then used as horror movie-material later on. Mon: Let's move on to Sam Guthrie. So, Sam is kind of the pseudo-leader in the comics. He's conveniently the leader because, I feel like the writers, at the time, weren't sure who they could give it to so they gave it to the southern white guy.
In the comics, he's very happy, he's a very positive guy. He's had hardships in his life, but he never lets it bring him down. He struggles with his powers, he's a cannonball, quite literally, and it's a difficult power to master. The film touches on the fact that Sam still struggles with mastering his power, but he's given this broody, overly dark backstory, which doesn't do the character any justice. Sam's storyline in the film really should have come with some kind of warning. Because Sam is essentially self-harming throughout. He's in a cast constantly, he is seen punching himself. Basically, it's quite disturbing to watch what happens. And it comes without context, and we'll come to the fact that a lot of what happens in the film is without context.
What we learn is that Sam was working in the mines with his father and several other men, and his powers accidentally activated and he killed, not only the other men, but also his father, and he's obviously struggling with what happened. And, and he's taking it out on himself. He's not able to grow, learn, or attach himself to anybody. So, this was a huge departure, again, from the comics.
Ron: And then finally we come to Illyana, whose backstory is also extremely different from the comics. When we first meet her, she is a very small child, who ends up in limbo and spends her formative years in that hellhole. But when she's rescued which is a few seconds after her disappearance, she's a teenager.
None of that, obviously made it into this film, understandably, because the budgets would not have allowed for it, though we do get glimpses of limbo. However, Illyana’s backstory appears to be about her being trapped somewhere and being abused. What did you think about her backstory?
Mon: I didn't feel like it was necessary to have that kind of backstory. What I will say is that this is the subtlest way of suggesting any kind of assault or abuse on any kind of character. They really worked hard to be sensitive to the topic, but at the same time I have to ask, why did Illyana need that backstory in the first place? Why can’t she just come from a poor Russian home? Why couldn't it be like a Dostoyevsky story? She didn't need that kind of background.
And I also felt like there were maybe one too many hints about what happened to her. I understand the need to pare down Illyana’s rather complicated, fantastical comic book origins, but they went the other extreme by making it a little too realistic.
Ron: They tried to marry some of the realistic elements of childhood abuse that we see in real life with the fantastical elements of her childish imagination of what these monsters were. I think that worked for them. But to keep coming back and for us to keep seeing small Illyana in that room, there were one too many moments that would have been triggering for anybody who has been in that situation in their life. So, basically there are two instances in this film where they should have added content warnings, and they had three years to do that, but they didn't.
Mon: And that's not the only thing they didn't fix in the three years. The CGI is terrible! When you're talking about a comic book adaptation, especially with the New Mutants, who are more fantastical, and have more imaginative powers, that requires a lot of special effects. I was disappointed with what we saw. We didn't actually see their powers in action as much as we saw some of the horror elements, and I'm sorry but that is the worst CGI I've seen.
After people have been shouting about how hard they've been working to make this product the best that they can, it honestly feels like this movie was made and somebody forgot about what to do with it. And then they just kept playing hot potato with it. They didn't embellish it, nothing. It's not like they tried very hard to make it the best story possible.
Ron: And I think the other problem is that from the very first previews, people had strong reactions to Zaga, to Heaton. There were a lot of people who were upset that an Afro-Latino character had been replaced by somebody who was lighter skinned. This is colorism and 2020 may have put colorism in the spotlight, but, in 2017, this was definitely something that people knew about.
There were also a lot of concern about Heaton’s casting. He was hot off the success of Stranger Things; it made sense to cast him in a movie like this. But he doesn't fit Sam Guthrie at all! I was extremely disappointed in Zaga and Heaton in this film. Not only did they not look like the characters, they had so little to do. 
The burden of carrying this film really fell on Blu Hunt and Maisie Williams. They did a good job. But there were also a lot of problematic elements around them. So, whatever they were doing was undone. For instance, Illyana is unnecessarily antagonistic towards Dani. She's also racist. She keeps calling her Pocahontas!
They did a good job. But there were also a lot of problematic elements around them. So, whatever they were doing was undone. For instance, Illyana is unnecessarily antagonistic towards Dani. She's also racist. She keeps calling her Pocahontas!
Mon: Yeah, I found that very disturbing and I didn't see any need for that.
Ron: Absolutely not. And 2017 was one year after Trump was elected. He made a lot of Pocahontas comments soon after coming into power. And a lot of people were very, very upset about that, and they were very vocal about that. Why would they put this into the film?
Mon: I think the whole ‘Pocahontas’ thing in the film is kind of reflective of how the director seems quite blinkered in his view? We have the Zaga issue. We have the racist comments against Dani Moonstar, as well. But there's a character missing in this film from the comics and she's integral!
Xi’an Coy Manh, who is the mutant Karma, is a Vietnamese immigrant who becomes the leader of the group. She is conspicuously missing from this film. Why is the Asian mutant, who was such an important part of the comics missing from the film?
Ron: I understand that for the majority of the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline, Xi’an was not there. But if you're making a film which introduces this particular group, you've got to have her.
Mon: I completely agree with you on that. It makes no sense. We were talking about how Heaton and Zaga really don't do much in film. I have to say, this is probably the first time I've seen a genre film where the two boys spend most of the time cleaning dishes and washing clothes, whereas the girls seem to be driving the story forward. It's hinted at that ‘Berto and Sam are becoming close friends, but you don't really see much of the relationship; it's just one montage where they're having a little bit of fun, but the three girls, there's a lot more to their relationship, especially between Blue Hunt’s Dani Moonstar and Maisie Williams’ Rahne Sinclair.
Ron: I was pleasantly surprised that from nowhere, we got this queer relationship. And it comes off the fact that Blu and Maisie obviously have a lot of chemistry. So, the film just went with it. From the very first time that Dani and Rahne see each other, there's this connection. And it just grows throughout the film, and they become a couple.
Mon: I couldn't believe it because, in the books, they're pretty much written as straight. Romance isn't a huge part of their storylines. But in this film, it's there from the very beginning. There's a scene soon after Danny wakes up, and she's struggling to cope with the death of her father, the death of her entire village, and Rahne really talks her down. It's really sweet, this interaction between two young people who are struggling to find themselves in a world that doesn't make sense. And it’s also a little bit funny.
Ron: In any other film, one of the characters would have been a man. But here, it's two girls. And it's one of the nicest moments in the entire film. Once again, a trigger warning is required. But it's a great moment. Because we have seen so many superhero films, and we're still waiting for those queer characters. And it didn't feel forced at all.
Mon: It definitely because, as you mentioned, the actors had so much chemistry between them. It's a friendly chemistry, and the story doesn't try too hard. It makes sure that they come together because they understand each other. Because Rahne is such a kindly character and Dani needs that at that point, she needs somebody who can just understand. And she also needs to know that other people are also suffering in some way, they have their own pain, so that she can open up herself.
Ron: I also liked was there were no salacious comments, no maliciousness towards that relationship.
Mon: They were no gratuitous scenes.
Ron: Exactly, especially when the characters are young, you know, it would have been very disturbing to watch that. We anyway had the whole thing with Illyana’s backstory. One of the things that we really get to see in genre cinema, that even if you have queer characters, if everybody around them is like, ‘oh, you're queer, or gay or trans’, that ruins the moment, because that is again singling out the marginalized character. We also need to talk about how them being a couple isn't the only driving force behind their characterizations. It is a part of what makes them grow and brings them closer. But it also plays a part in resolving some of the issues in the plot.
Mon: So, here's the problem. While this beautiful little love story is fleshed out throughout the film, everything else got left behind. There isn't really anything else. Even if this was supposed to be a character driven story, or a relationship building story, those are also left by the wayside. Because Illyana is antagonistic, when she comes to Dani aide, it's supposed to be seen as she's coming to help Dani out of a newfound-love for Dani, but it's not true. And I couldn't actually read it that way.
Mon: When I was watching the film, I couldn't understand why Illyana suddenly had this change of heart. She'd managed to fight the monsters from her childhood that had come to come to life. But why did that make her feel like she had to fight for Dani? It seemed more like all the other characters, barring Rahne, were fighting for survival. Ron: I agree. Even Sunspot. When he's in the church, it doesn't seem like he's trying to save Dani, or he's trying to help the others. He's just trying to protect himself. And Sam seems to have so little control over his powers that whatever he does do is always by accident.
What I also feel is that we've been skirting around the issue of the plot. And the problem is that there isn't much plot here. The structure of the story goes something like this. Dani meets her fellow mutants. They try to get to know each other. Mysterious things seem to be happening, and they all seem to be related to everybody's worst fears. As the film continues, we realized that those manifestations have a connection with Dani. And then we finally learn that Dani’s greatest fear is the demon bear.
Mon: The final arc of the film is the demon bear attacking the facility and Dani is incapacitated, which leaves the rest of the team to fight off the demon bear and protect her at the same time. This brings the team together, but it brings them together more for their own survival than for the protection of Dani or for any emotional connection that they have to her.
Ron: Also, the stakes in some ways aren't very high. We are used to seeing the very formulaic superhero ending on this huge battleground, so many faceless people in danger having to be protected. And this is much smaller. The new mutants are fighting their own inner demons. And that works in some ways, but it's also not earned. Mon: I think the lack of payoff in this film comes from the fact that there is no context to what we've seen. The context always comes after the fact. We see Sam self-harming but why? We don't find out until several scenes later. We see Illyana being haunted by these scary creatures. But who are they? Why do they look like that? We don't get an answer to that. Most of the other manifestations, they do become more realistic. Whereas with Illyana’s, for some reason, it remains these otherworldly creatures.
Ron: I kept thinking that at some point, especially in the third act, that the monsters would transform into people we would see that the people who were harming her were actually real men.
Mon: Either that, or it was all in limbo, and that’s why they looked like that. But we don't know because limbo is just hinted at during the last section of the film. We get glimpses of a lot of hellfire but not much else.
Ron: The only remaining aspect of limbo in the real world is Lockheed. For the longest time, he’s just a stuffed toy and then randomly in one scene, he turns into a real dragon.
Mon: As real as bad CGI can make it, anyway.
Ron: It’s sad honestly. We love Lockheed in the comics, but also Lockheed belongs to Kitty. So, why is Lockheed here with Illyana? I don't know.
Mon: I'd argue that that was an Easter egg that didn't belong.
Ron: Yes, and seeing Lockheed look like that was super disappointing. They had three years to get this film on our screens, they couldn't fix Lockheed? They didn't actually do anything once it was filmed once it was packaged, once that first preview came out. They just put it on a shelf and waited for it to be released in theaters.
Mon: Disappointing indeed. What are the other comic book elements that you spotted in the film?
Ron: Well, when we saw Dr Reyes’ screen, we could see Essex Corp. It took me a second before I realized that Essex Corp meant Nathaniel Essex, aka Mr. Sinister.
Mon: And throughout, Dr Reyes kept hinting at how her supervisor was in charge and we knew that she was basically following his orders. Since this mysterious character is such a fan-favourite and a huge part of the X-Men comics, we were expecting, at the end, perhaps a little glimpse of the man himself?
Ron: There have been X-Men stories where Nathaniel Essex has been part of the background and then right in the very last panel, there he is standing there in all his glory. We were kind of hoping for that to happen and we waited till the end of the credits. Nothing.
Mon: The film is connected to the main X-Men film universe. There are glimpses of where these young mutants are going to be taken, and these are scenes from Logan. The corporation from which Logan rescues X-23. They were obviously hoping for a larger universe which would include the new mutants, but it never came to fruition.
Ron: Which is again making me wonder, what was the point of this film? It doesn't really give us an hoped for New Mutants 2. In fact, once they have defeated the demon bear, and they've managed to get rid of Dr Reyes, they're leaving the facility, but they have no idea where they're going. As far as they know, there's nothing around them for miles. So, what is the point?
Mon: My biggest struggle with this film is that the new mutants do not lend themselves to a film or a film trilogy. The new mutants should be a TV series.
Ron: Especially since it has a large cast of characters. And if you had added the other characters, you would have had a good number of people to follow. That'll make for great television. I'm thinking about The Gifted, which was an X-Men spinoff. Unfortunately, it was canceled after two seasons but I enjoyed it. Not everybody else did, but I did. And that showed how an X-Men story in television form could work.
Mon: The thing with the X-Men universe is that it's an expansive universe and new characters are constantly being added to it. So, you can't reproduce that universe in just a few films. While the X-Men films, some of them have been very successful, but several of the characters were underserved. Cyclops is the leader in the comics; he got short shrift in the films. Jean Grey is a very powerful character in the comics, and she spends most of her time standing and waving her arms.
While the main X-Men series can still be carried by a handful of actors, with The New Mutants, they are a group, they're a band of youngsters who spend a lot of time getting to know each other and build their friendships together. The whole point of these characters is not just that they have to explore their powers, they also have to explore their own youth. They are young people that are growing up; they need to find out who they are as people. For these characters, the film being a one off, or even if it was supposed to be a trilogy, it doesn't work. The new mutants need to have episodic stories, which were the central theme of the comics.
Ron: It shouldn't be a horror story. I understand where they were going with that. Even within the comic books, the ‘Demon Bear’ storyline does lend itself to suspense but it's also very tragic. I think we need to move away from instilling fear in the viewer, and more about instilling some hope.
Mon: I also feel like the final product didn't quite live up to the anticipation of the original previews. The first trailer that we saw, it really made it look like the classic horror stories that we are so used to seeing. They're stuck in an asylum and scary creatures are coming at them. That's not what we got.
Ron: This was ‘Jumpscares: The Mutant Movie’. Especially that Sunspot scene in the swimming pool, with him and Illyana, which never happens in the comics, and it came off as super gross.
Mon: I still can't figure out whether that was Illyana or that was his imagination.
Ron: That's what I'm saying! ;Jumpscares: The Mutant Movie’. Look, in a horror film, you can have your own kind of logic, but that logic needs to follow a certain pattern. That scene didn't follow any pattern. It seemed like just an excuse for Henry Zaga to take his clothes off, which is not necessary in this film at all. And to put him and Illyana together as a potential couple, which also didn't work because the two characters had no chemistry. And there was no reason for them to want to be together. Mon: Yes, it is just one of the many, many missteps. Surprisingly, I don't feel like this film was the worst film ever made. I would say that it was a poor choice of subject matter and poor execution.
Ron: It's not a bad film. It's just boring. It doesn't try to push any boundaries. The only area where they did something different was with the relationship between Dani and Rahne and but aside from that, the story is very limited in its scope. And for that reason, having just seen The New Mutants, we are struggling to remember parts of it. Mon: So, let us know, what did you think about the New Mutants?
Ron: You can find us on Twitter @Stereo_Geeks. Or send us an email [email protected]
Ron: We hope you enjoyed this episode. And see you next week!
Mon: The Stereo Geeks logo was created using Canva. The music for our podcast comes courtesy Audionautix.
[Continuum by Audionautix plays]
Transcription by Otter.ai and Ron.
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bubonickitten · 4 years
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Summary: After leaving the Web's domain, Martin and Jon both get a little lost in their own heads. Or: Time to put the apocalypse on hold again for another Web-related navel-gazing session.
This is part of a series, but can be read as a standalone. (Part 1: tumblr // AO3)
Full text & content warnings under the cut.
     CW: canon-typical spiders & arachnophobia; substance abuse (cigarette smoking & nicotine dependence); self-loathing re: addiction and obsessive-compulsive behavior; rejection sensitive dysphoria rearing its ugly head; internalized ableism & victim blaming; brief instance of (very passive) suicidal ideation; Web-typical paranoia; spoilers up to and including MAG 172.
     “Yeah, screw this place,” Martin says. “Never liked the theatre anyway.”
  And with that, he turns and makes a beeline for the nearest exit. Jon stands there for a moment, outstretched hand still lingering where he had offered it to Martin. A familiar gloom settles over him, stealing the air from his lungs – a sharp twinge in his chest, a cold weight dropping into his gut, a hard lump in his throat – all because of the merest hint of rejection.   
  Don’t take it personally, he scolds himself. Martin probably just… didn’t notice his hand. He was distracted. He's unsettled, he’s frightened, he needs to be away from here. It’s fine. Jon is just being self-centered. Again. 
  But as he trails Martin, several steps behind, he gets lost in his own head.         
  It's concerning, this pattern of Jon getting so absorbed in statements that Martin cannot reach him - and it isn't fair to Martin, left adrift and alienated in a nightmare realm that Jon brought into existence, all so Jon can take a moment to bask in the terror. Yes, Jon hates it. He hates how the fear and agony are filtered through him, even though he's become so accustomed to it - so much so that he fears eventually growing numb to it all, losing that last human spark he still curls himself around with possessive, protective fervor. Even more, though, he hates that alien thing in his head that likes it, that forces him to like it, that insists all of this is right and good and natural.  
  It's destroying him, it's destroying everyone around him, and he wants all of it to just stop. Except, there's a loud part of him that doesn't. He wants nothing more than to choke the life out of it.  
  He wishes he could go back to a time when he didn't want or need this, when he wasn't comforted by this thing hollowing him out like a tunneling worm. When did things go so wrong? Did it start when he was a child, when he found the book? Was the point of no return much later, when he became the Archivist? Or was he always doomed to be this, born with self-destruction and impulsivity encoded into his DNA, impossible to separate from himself and still remain himself? 
  Precisely how much of the statement did Martin overhear? Was it enough to draw the parallels that Jon himself is outlining now?
  Jon never has time to process a statement while he’s in the midst of recording it. The human part of him is shelved so the Archive can go about its impartial curation without the interference of Jon's feverish running commentary. Once the trance wears off, though, Jon has time to think. To ruminate, as Martin says. To record his supplemental and dutifully file it away in the Archive, because the knowledge is not complete without Jon's lived experience to bring it to life. 
                   FRANCIS: Please. Let me go. Just let me go.
           THE SPIDER: Oh, Francis. It’s such a shame that I couldn’t do such a thing even if I wanted to. The man in the audience saw to that. I am no more free than you are, little puppet.
  Not for the first time, Jon wonders about the significance of the statements he’s been channeling since the end of the world. How does the subject – victim, the still-human part of him admonishes – get selected? Does the Eye direct his focus, like choosing from a menu? Is it the choice of the Entity whose domain they're passing through? Or is it just chance – whatever instance of terror gets Beheld in that fraction of a second before the tape recorder clicks on to demand its offering?
  He can’t shake the feeling that the Web did have a hand in selecting the particular show he was set to narrate just now, if only because it felt so perfectly tailored and pointed.
           FRANCIS: Please. Please god, not again. I don’t want it to happen again.
           THE SPIDER: Then walk away, Francis, just turn and leave. All that is required is a little bit of willpower. You have a little bit of willpower, don’t you?
  Free will again, of course. Choice versus control. That thorny, sticky weed of a question that took up residence in his mind and spread its roots through every part of him, feeding and growing and seeding more iterations of itself with every passing moment of doubt. He's been over this, he's been over this; why can't he just let it go? 
           “Jon, we’ve been over this," Basira told him. "The key is to not force people to feed you their trauma. You know – just don’t do it?”
           “It’s not that simple.”
           “No, it is. Or I put you down.” 
  Jon remembers how, the first time he tried to quit smoking, it was framed in exactly that way: Just stop. At the time, it had seemed so simple that when he found he couldn’t manage it, he felt like an abject failure. Beyond that, though, it was like having a sinkhole open beneath his feet. Long-suppressed doubts about his own will and self-control were dredged up to the surface, where they've stayed front-and-center ever since. 
  He’s always had an obsessive streak, always had trouble letting go, always had difficulties with impulse control. It shouldn’t have been a surprise when just one cigarette ultimately led to an on-again, off-again addiction that he struggled with right up until the end of the world. Whether it’s nicotine or insatiable curiosity, he’s always been predisposed to fixation, hasn't he? And Beholding, well - it easily overshadowed the rest. It evolved so smoothly from routine to habit to dependence to basic sustenance, and now it’s such an intrinsic part of who he is that he doesn’t know who he would be without it.
  Why didn't he see the warning signs? Or did he see them and opt to ignore them, to barrel on ahead through every red flag and concerned intervention attempt in his haste to do, to see, to know, to experience? 
           THE SPIDER: I want what you want, deep, deep down in the hidden bit of you you’ve tried so hard to kill. You can’t wait for the dance to conclude.
           FRANCIS: I don’t want that anymore. It’s different now. I’m different now. I’ve worked so hard.
           THE SPIDER: I don’t care.
  Jon doesn’t want this. He doesn’t. But he does. But he doesn’t.
  It’s complicated.
  Jonathan Sims, human, feels nothing but despair and shame. The entire world has become a looping nightmare with no end in sight, and it’s his fault – all because, like a moth to a flame, he’s never known when to just stop. In the back of his mind burns that incessant what-if: Would it have been better had he never woken up from the coma? With his death, the others would have been free to quit; he never would have fed on his victims; he never would have opened the door. How much better would the world have been without him in it? 
  The Archivist, on the other hand, feels every stab of fear and pain as any human would, but along with that torment comes a perverse satisfaction in it all. Can he legitimately call himself a victim if he himself is complicit in his trauma? A steady diet of terror is what sustains him now, even as it eats away at him from the inside out. He is dependent on that which destroys him, and he hates it, and he likes it, and he needs it, and he dreads it, and he’s tired.  
  Meanwhile, the Archive feels only detached fascination and a deep conviction that everything is exactly as it should be. This is the role it was born to serve. This is the world in which it was so carefully engineered to thrive. This is the whole of its definition and the whole of its being and the whole of its nature, and it will record and catalog and curate and preserve every single moment for as long as it survives. Nothing lasts forever, but the Archive spares no thought for the inevitable end of its existence. There’s so much to See here, now.
  The fear consumes him. The fear feeds him. The fear just is, and the Archive is here to witness and preserve every motion and every perspective and every detail.
           “When has your guilt, or your sadness, or your hand-wringing ever actually stopped you from doing what it wants?” Helen said with a wicked grin.
           “ I have not been taking statements.”  
           "You’ve sworn off other people’s trauma for now, because you’re caught. Because continuing would endanger you. But other than that, when has your discomfort ever actually stopped you walking the path of the Beholding?”
           "I… I don’t know.”  
  Jonathan Sims can kick and scream all he wants, thrashing impotently in the corners of this shared mind. His cries will be drowned out by a cacophonous litany of horror and dread, and the Archive will pay him no mind. It has more interesting things to concern itself with than the useless self-loathing of the original owner of this vessel, still so stubbornly refusing to embrace the role for which he was so carefully groomed. 
  Jon has always made everything so difficult, hasn't he? Incapable of sitting still, of shutting up, of listening, of just slowing down and stopping for once. Always pushing, pushing, pushing, even when he knew the outcome would only hurt. Anything to keep moving, to secure that heady little rush that rewarded him whenever he happened upon something new and untapped. Voracious for anything to stave off the boredom and channel his restless energy. 
  He wants to stop. He can't stop. He did stop. He tried. He put so much distance between himself and that toxic thing to which he was beholden, and it found him again anyway. Jonah Magnus - 
  It does not matter. Jon's consent was never necessary. He will submit regardless. He always has. 
           FRANCIS only has a desire, an itch in their bones that flows into them, drip by oily drip, down the glistening strands that suspend them, guide them, hold them…. They don’t want to want it, but…
           Pause for laughter.
  He doesn’t want it. Except that he does.
  He doesn’t want to want it. But he does anyway.
  It’s horrible, but it feels right.
           “Can the Web control another avatar, one that serves another power?” Jon asked, desperate and ashamed.
           Pause for Helen’s laughter.
           “Make them do things they don’t want to, make them – feed –”
           Pause for Helen’s laughter.
           “Oh, perhaps,” Helen said, delighted to watch him squirm. “Perhaps not. Would that make life easier for you? Are you so sure you didn’t want to?”
           Pause for Helen’s laughter.
  He did want to. Jonathan Sims may not have wanted to, but the Archivist? The Archivist would have continued hunting and preying, and he would have cycled through as many rationalizations as needed to continue the routine. But the Archivist is Jon is the Archivist; there's no use in distancing himself from accountability. 
  How had Jon lost himself so quickly, so easily?
  When he woke up after the Unknowing, he was terrified. He didn’t know what he was becoming versus what he had already become, or the extent to which he was beyond the point of no return. Georgie had been right, when she told him that he needed people in his life to remind him of his humanity – and now he needed that more than ever.
  But none of them had wasted any time in labeling him a monster.
  Jon doesn’t blame them, of course. Tim was dead, Daisy was gone, Martin was Lonely, Melanie was being consumed by the Slaughter, and Basira had been left to pick up the pieces by herself. Everyone had changed; everyone had been through trauma; everyone was coping alone; everyone was afraid and angry in the face of being trapped and manipulated and exploited.
  And so, so much of it was Jon’s fault, all because he couldn't just stop. 
           “Jon, focus,” Basira said. “Are you getting any sense of anything? Can you See anything?”
           “No, I’m just seeing what you’re seeing. Still a bit weak from my trip up north, to be honest.”
           “Sorry we couldn’t stop for a snack,” Melanie snapped.
  Basira had laughed, then, and Jon had wanted to be angry, but all he felt was icy guilt wrapped in a layer of dull hunger.
  Basira valued practicality. She simply didn't have the luxury for anything else. Jon was dangerous, and maybe a day would come when he could no longer be suffered to live, but until then, he could also be an asset. Basira asked him to Know and See when it would help their goals; she prompted him to Ask questions when they needed to interrogate someone; she wanted him at full power whenever they were heading into danger. She, like Tim, thought they would all be better off if Jon acted more like Gertrude – until he did, and they both saw the all-too-human monstrosity inherent in Gertrude’s flavor of utilitarianism.
           “She got the job done,” Jon said, “and she didn’t care about the cost.”
           “But I thought you did.”
           He did, didn't he? When had that changed? 
           “I had to know, Basira.”
           It's a poor excuse.
           “It wasn’t right.”
           No, it wasn't. 
           “You could have stopped me. But you wanted to know as well, didn’t you?”
  She did want to know. Most people did. And that was what he was for, now, wasn’t it? The others could reap whatever benefits Jon could manage to wrest from his new inhuman existence, and all the while they could remain insulated, assured of their own moral high ground and their own humanity when compared to him.
  Except that's a cop-out, isn't it? He would have hunted for statements regardless of whether it had any strategic benefit, taken over by instinct and hunger and need. No one is responsible for his actions except for himself.  
  Jon couldn't blame the others for how they treated him back then. But sometimes, a distant part of his mind would rail against the unfairness of it all, the double standards, the unclear and inconsistent demands. He was expected to be the Archivist - to sacrifice his humanity - whenever it was convenient, and then shamed back into submission the moment that power was no longer of immediate use. Too human and he wasn’t useful enough; too monstrous and he was an unacceptable risk. He was carving off pieces of himself to fit a mold that changed by the hour, until eventually he couldn’t recognize himself anymore.
  And always there was that wrenching pang somewhere deep inside him whenever he failed to meet those expectations. It had been there since he was a child, and it had only gotten worse in recent years. He couldn’t justify his continued existence if he couldn’t prove himself useful, and now, being useful meant... well, drowning. 
  Excuses, excuses. He could have just stopped. He had choices, and at every watershed moment he chose to continue digging. If he had hit rock bottom, would he have stopped? Would he have even noticed?  
           “You knew, didn’t you? You knew the sorts of things she did, and you let her.”
           “No,” Basira said. “Not exactly. I thought… it’s not that simple.”
           "It never is. But that doesn’t make it okay.”       
           “None of us are who we were, Jon.”
  It was cruel of him to put her on the spot like that, he knows. Basira had a much deeper bond with Daisy; of course she would be more willing to see and acknowledge the complexities of Daisy’s struggle. It’s… normal, to see the people you love in a rosier light than the people you distrust. Likewise, Martin still holds a grudge against Daisy for how she treated him in her interrogation, for what she did to Jon. Sometimes Martin's fingers will brush against the scar on Jon's throat and just for a moment, Jon will see a quiet, protective fury in Martin's eyes. He cannot understand how almost overnight, Jon came to see Daisy as a friend. Martin wonders sometimes whether it was just another clever way Jon had found to hurt himself, to punish himself, to put himself in danger.
  But Martin didn’t get to spend much time with Daisy after the Buried. He didn’t get to see how hard she was trying to get better. Just like Basira didn't get to witness Jon’s efforts.
  In fact, come to think of it… back then, Jon and Daisy both hid their weakest moments from everyone except each other, didn’t they? God, he misses her. No one else really understood what it was like to spend every waking moment resisting the call of a thing that could never be vanquished, which is exactly why sometimes Jon felt his hackles raise when they were held to different standards – especially when Daisy herself hated it just as much as he did. 
  None of that mattered, though. Everyone already thought him a monster, and he agreed with them. What was the point in pretending otherwise? He may as well be the monster, so no one else had to do it. (Excuses, excuses, excuses.) And besides, he liked it, didn’t he? He hated that about himself, but that didn’t make it any less true. So, he would make himself useful. If he got too dangerous, he doubted any of the others would have any qualms about putting him down. It shouldn't have been a comforting thought, but it was. Somewhere along the line, wanting to live had started to feel selfish. When had that happened?  
  But then… Martin.
  Talk to him, said the note. An outstretched hand in the form of three simple words. A belief that he wasn’t too far gone. No, not just a belief. An expectation. He was more than what he was becoming. Or, he could be. 
  Martin always saw him, didn’t he? Even when Jon didn’t deserve it –
  He doesn’t notice Martin’s abrupt stop until he crashes headlong into him, bouncing off his sturdy frame and onto the dusty ground with a quiet oof.
  “Martin?” Jon scrambles upright.
  “Yeah, I’m – I’m okay, I’m –”
  Martin is standing rigidly, staring off to the side, but Jon can still see the wild, frantic look in his eyes, the slightest sheen of tears there, the way he’s gnawing on his bottom lip.
  “Martin?” Jon asks again, more intent this time. Pushing himself to his feet, he reaches out a hand – and then falters halfway, leaves it trembling in the air between them. Martin sways somewhat on his feet. “Martin.”
  “I – what?” Martin turns unfocused eyes on him. "Jon?"
  “Martin, what’s wrong?”  
  “Nothing, it’s – I’m just – it’s –”
  “You’re bleeding,” Jon murmurs, closing the gap between them and reaching up to brush his thumb over Martin’s lip. He half-expects Martin to pull away. When the rejection doesn’t come, Jon is nearly swept away by relief. 
  “Oh.” Martin looks down and his eyes widen, as though he’s just now seeing Jon.
  “Tell me what’s on your mind,” Jon says evenly, careful to keep the compulsion out of his voice. He moves his hand to cradle Martin’s face, and Martin leans into his touch on reflex.
  “It’s… I keep thinking.”
  “Yes?”
  “I… it felt so much like curiosity, Jon.”
  “Ah.” Jon thinks he senses where this is going.
  “I – I didn’t realize until just now how it – I’m – I’m so sorry.” Martin chokes on the last word and a tear slides down his cheek.
  “Come here,” Jon says, lowering himself to the ground again and pulling Martin down after him. Martin sags against him, his breath coming in quiet hiccups, and Jon curls an arm around his shoulders. “Breathe. What are you sorry for?”
  “I thought I understood. About the Web.” Martin’s breath hitches. “I used to think it was – maybe exaggerated, how you felt? Or, no, that’s not the right word – I mean –”
  “More like a phobia than a rational fear.”
  “It’s – not that it isn’t rational, it’s just –”
  “Martin, it’s fine,” Jon says, running his fingers through Martin’s hair. “I have a history of paranoia and phobias, and – and I know I obsess, I overthink things. If I was looking at me from the outside, I’d think I was overreacting, too. I probably am sometimes. Which is what the Web wants.”
  “I didn’t say you were overreacting, I just thought – I thought maybe the actual threat was…” Martin bites his lip again. “That maybe it wasn’t as imminent as you were afraid it was. Or not as – as pervasive? I figured, if at least some of it was in your own head, I could actually…”
  “Actually what?”
  “That I could make it better,” Martin says meekly, a fresh wave of tears rolling down his cheeks. “I thought I could do something to protect you for once.”
  “You already do that."
  "How do you mean?" Martin laughs bitterly. "The only reason I'm still alive is because of you."
  "I think I could say the same," Jon says quietly.
  "You'd survive just fine on your own."
  "I don't want to just survive." It comes out harsher than he intended, and Jon forces gentleness back into his tone. "You are my reason, remember? And... and besides. You do protect me." Martin rolls his eyes, and Jon rallies again. "Yes, fine, there isn't much that could physically harm me here."
  Martin nods sullenly, an unspoken I told you so. 
  "But, I - I'm prone to self-sabotage, if you haven't noticed." 
  "Yeah." Martin sniffles, averting his eyes. 
  "You make me want to be better. You... you believe that's possible for me, even when no one else does, even when I don't believe it myself. Even when I don't deserve it." Jon shakes his head, his quiet laugh full of wonder and disbelief. "You see me in a way that I quite honestly don't understand, but it... it makes me want to be that person for you."
  "You don't really need me, though." 
  "I do need you," Jon says fiercely. Then, softer: "And - and even if I didn't, I want you with me." Jon coaxes Martin's chin up to look him in the eye. "I'm quite fond of you, you know." 
  Martin chuckles half-heartedly and rubs at his eyes. 
  "There's something else bothering you, I think," Jon says hesitantly. "I - I didn't Know anything, I promise, I just... it seems like there's more?" 
  "It's fine." Martin clears his throat, and when he continues, it's with a tone that could almost be considered composed if it wasn't for the way he steadfastly avoids eye contact. "Just, you know. The Web."
  "I'd like to listen, if you're willing to talk."
  "You don't have to -"
  "Let me take care of you?" 
  They've talked about this before. Martin's always been a caretaker. He's compassionate, and Jon will always be in awe of how adept he is at showing he cares with the simplest of gestures. Martin finds it fulfilling, prides himself on putting comfort into the world when it seems like none can exist. But he habitually prioritizes others at the cost of his own well-being, routinely blurs the line between compassion and destructive self-sacrifice. He never learned that cliché tenet of putting on his own oxygen mask before helping others with theirs. He doesn't know how to let himself be cared for, rarely even takes the time for self-care, and usually doesn't believe he deserves it in the first place. He feels an acute need to justify his existence by being useful, and for most of his life, it was the only way he knew to measure his own worth. The same could be said for Jon, really; it just manifested somewhat differently in his case. 
  But they've discussed it. They've been working on it.   
  Martin opens his mouth, starts to mouth the reflexive phrase - I'm fine - but capitulates when Jon says again, resolute: "I'd like to take care of you. Please let me."
  "Um. I... okay. Okay. I just - give me a minute."
  "Take all the time you need," Jon says, and returns to playing with Martin's hair. They're exposed here, but Jon would have ample foreknowledge of any approaching danger. Besides, this is an in-between space between domains, and Jon Knows that few things will go out of their way to seek out a confrontation with the Archive, especially outside of their own turf. 
  A few minutes pass before Martin begins to speak, starting slow before unraveling into a frantic confession. 
  “I’ve – I’ve never felt in control of my life, not really, but I’ve also never felt like I was being puppeted. It was just – circumstances outside of my control, or my own shortcomings, not – not some literal other mind pulling the strings.” One of Martin’s hands comes to rest on Jon’s knee, and he grips tightly, as if to remind himself of Jon's physical presence. “And – and if that’s a thing that actually happens, if it might be happening to me, how am I supposed to trust anything I do or think or feel? How do I – how do I know I won’t lose you, or – or betray you, or –”
  “You don’t.” Jon gives him a very small smile, a cross between wry and rueful. He shifts his position until he can touch their foreheads together, moving one hand to cup the back of Martin's neck. “We can never know for sure whether we’re being controlled. We could sit here, I suppose – take no action at all, wrap ourselves in doubt and fear.” Jon nudges Martin's nose with his own, urging Martin to meet his eyes. “But then we’ll also have to wonder if that was the Web’s plan all along.”
  “Oh, god, I’m dragging you back down the rabbit hole –”
  “No, listen. It’s…” Jon gives a considering hum and leans away slightly. “Actually, there’s one part of Annabelle’s statement that sits with me in a good way.”
  “What?” Martin says incredulously.
  “Just listen. ‘We all have forces that drive us, circumstances that direct us,’” Jon recites from memory, “‘and even if we choose to ignore these and act against all logic, just to prove that we can – is that not simply allowing the existential terror of our own powerlessness to control us instead?’”
  “And – and what about that do you find comforting?”
  “It’s… hmm." Jon takes a beat as he hunts for a way to best convey his meaning. "Do you remember the story I told you, about Mr. Spider?”
  “Of course,” Martin says softly, rubbing his thumb back and forth on Jon’s knee in a soothing, repetitive motion. Jon grounds himself in the touch and takes a deep breath before he continues. 
  “So - to this day, I still have the sense memory of being a passenger in my body. Like my veins were puppet strings, filled with - with hundreds of thousands of tiny scuttling legs. Like being pulled forward by a thousand minds and none of them my own.” Jon closes his eyes and swallows hard. This next part, he's never spoken aloud. “Worse, though, was the aftermath. I couldn’t stop thinking about the possibility that maybe they had never left. That maybe they had just let the strings go slack for the time being. I was always waiting for a moment when the threads would be pulled taut, and I would realize that the Spider never actually let go. Sometimes I - I still feel the crawling, the tugging. It's my imagination, I know - just a tactile hallucination - but still, it can be... rather convincing at times.” 
  “That’s… horrible," Martin says, and he means it, but there's a note of confusion there: he's not entirely sure where Jon is going with this. 
  “The Web managed to cover a lot of bases when it marked me. Fear of spiders and cobwebs, yes, but deeper than that. That split second before opening a door where my heart stops because I can never really be certain that I know what’s behind it.” Jon realizes suddenly that this is the first time he’s ever put words to that fear, let alone admitted it to another person. He shakes his head and forces himself to continue. “Being watched, being manipulated. Being controlled, or being unable to control myself, and being unable to tell the difference between the two. Infectious self-doubt, and the fear that I’ll never be free of it.”
  “What does that have to do with –”
  “‘Is that not simply allowing the existential terror of our own powerlessness to control us instead?’” Jon repeats, staring ahead into the barren wasteland. “It makes me think… maybe there’s some freedom to be found in giving up the illusion of control.”
  “I don’t understand.”
  “I’ll always be afraid of the loss of control, whether it comes from the Web or from my own mind. And if I let that fear immobilize me, well… that’s also a loss of control. Same outcome.” He combs his fingers through the soft, curly hair at the base of Martin's skull. “What the Web feeds on is that fear of being manipulated. It doesn’t matter what you think is controlling you or how you react to it. It doesn’t matter whether you’re frozen in place like a fly caught in a web, or if you're unable to stop at all, stuck in a loop of - of obsession or addiction or panic. The Web can feast on all of it equally.”
  “You do realize that none of this is especially comforting, right?” Martin says with a nervous, breathless laugh. 
  “I’m getting there,” Jon promises. “The Web is an unknown variable. That's what makes it so terrifying. The only way I can think to fight back against that sort of power is to just… accept the idea that you’re not always in control, and that you’ll never know for sure the moments when you aren’t. To tolerate the ambiguity, and try to keep moving anyway. It dilutes the fear, somewhat. You aren’t as tasty a meal if you put a name to what scares you and shine a light on it.” Jon smirks. “If nothing else, it’s a ‘screw you’ to the Spider.”
  Martin closes his eyes for a long few minutes, and Jon sits with the silence. Finally, Martin looks up and meets Jon's eyes again and gives him a weak smile. 
  "I know it doesn't solve everything," Jon says. "I still have my regular Web-related, uh... thought spirals, for lack of a better term. But I think it helps, to talk about it. The Web thrives best when its victims isolate themselves, lose themselves in hypotheticals and paranoia until they're paralyzed with doubt. It's harder to manipulate someone when they have someone to untangle them when they get stuck." 
  "It did help," Martin says after a moment, and Jon is relieved to hear the sincerity underlying the words. "Thank you."
  “Well, the only reason I managed to come to any of this in the first place is because you gave me a stick and a dirt canvas and let me rant myself hoarse about it.”
  Martin laughs, still sounding just a little raw and tearful. “I guess the conspiracy corkboard idea worked?”
  “Yes, Martin.” Jon rolls his eyes, but his demeanor is thoroughly fond. “Though I think blindsiding me with the concept of 'love as a choice we make' is what got me over the line in the end. Very poetic.”
  “And here I thought you didn’t like poetry.”
  “Speaking of that…" Jon fixes Martin with a look of faux reproach. "Did you really imply that you hate the theatre back there? After giving me so much grief about disliking poetry?”  
  “I think I did more than imply it,” Martin says, and there’s a goading edge to his tone now.  
  “That’s…” Jon shakes his head. “Okay. Explain, please.”
  “I’ve just never been a fan.” Martin shrugs, but the nonchalance falls apart as Martin tries and fails not to grin at Jon's dismay. 
  “Theatre is - it's such a broad umbrella, there’s no way you don’t care for all of it –”
  “Poetry is a broad umbrella, too.”
  “Yes, fine,” Jon says grudgingly. “Shakespeare was a poet, surely you can appreciate some of his contributions to theatre.”
  “You’ve spent your whole life hating poetry, Jon. You don’t get to imply that I'm uncultured.”
  “I don’t hate all poetry. Just most of it.”
  “You still haven’t told me what changed your mind,” Martin says with a teasing smirk. “I wonder. Could it have been –”
  “Yes, Martin.” Jon heaves an exaggerated sigh, but doesn’t bother to hide the fondness in his tone. “It was you. Obviously.”  
  “Just wanted to hear you say it,” Martin replies, absolutely preening at the admission. “I –”
  Jon leans in and covers Martin’s lopsided smile with a kiss before he can get another blasphemous word in. The apocalypse can spare them a few more minutes. 
     End Notes:
Title is from Mitski's "Francis Forever".
Any of the indented bits involving Francis or the Spider are from MAG 172.
The others are from, in order: MAG 148; MAG 152; MAG 146; MAG 147; MAG 141; MAG 155.
And of course the quote from Annabelle's statement is from MAG 147 as well.
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trashmouthkid · 4 years
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tagged by @k4spbrak hi hi thank you <3
do you make your bed?  not by habit, but when trying to keep my room clean yes
what’s your favorite number? when I was in middle school i played soccer for a season and my favorite song (hero/heroine by boys like girls because i’m straight apparently) was number 24 on my mp3 player so that’s what number i wanted to get on my jersey, but that was already taken so I got #20 on my jersey and then removed 4 songs on my mp3 player. what was the question again? uh i really like years....1989
what is your job? drug/gm clerk and the krogers fjkglkfdjlk it sucks and i miss it
if you could go back to school, would you? i am finishing up my last semester rn. i think i would? 
can you parallel park? that’s gonna be a no from me baby
a job you had that would surprise people? this is the only job i’ve ever really had, um. nothing i guess
do you think aliens are real? yes because? they are hello
can you drive a manual car? nope
what’s your guilty pleasure? i’m not embarrassed about it but i guess listening to creepypastas? i’d do it my entire 8 hour shifts before podcasts
tattoos? i have a couple i don’t really care about...i want an it tattoo but my friends kind of beat me to my first choices.... i would like to be covered head 2 toe in art
favorite color?  pastel colors. also black
favorite type of music? truly from the bottom of my heart...anything. but i think the music i actually enjoy listening to the most is anything you can picture playing at a party in a movie while a character is staring in the bathroom mirror disassociating. so basically, 80s jams o fuk gotta go watch the wonder woman trailer again now 
things that people do that drive you crazy? telling me a movie has a plot twist? that’s a spoiler babe! and i dont wanna know!
do you like doing puzzles? yea!!!
 any phobias? heights....the deep sea......
favorite childhood sport? i didn’t play SPORTS i played CELLO 
do you talk to yourself? well someone’s gotta 
what movie do you adore? poisonally..... princess diaries 
coffee or tea? coffee
first thing you wanted to be growing up? vet :’) i loved animals, and still do, but i could never deal with the emotional aspects of the job (fjskdlf kyle i’m leaving this whole answer)
i simply cannot tag people please just say i tagged you if you’d like to do this 
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tentpoletrauma · 3 years
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Transcript of our A Nightmare of Elm Street (2010) podcast
Unknown Speaker  0:10   Welcome to Tentpole Trauma, the podcast where we look at movies that came with hype and high hopes, but left with crushing disappointment, either critically at the box office are both. freed from the weight of expectations, we seek to examine these underperformers under a new light parsing through the good, the bad and everything in between with the hopes of gaining a better understanding as to why they failed to find their audience.
Unknown Speaker  0:41   Warning, there will be spoilers. So if you haven't seen the movie that we're discussing today, I suggest you stop the podcast and go watch it. Then when you come back and listen, you'll get more out of the discussion. This episode, we examine the 2010 remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street.
Unknown Speaker  1:39   When West Cravens A Nightmare on Elm Street was released in 1984. I was a teenager, and though I did not see it in the theater, so my horror obsessed friends did and their reaction to it was nothing short of ecstatic. I caught up in video and saw the next two sequels in the theater. And though Michael Myers was more my slasher soon I was a Freddy Krueger convert. I lost track of the dream demon over my 20s but enjoyed the monster mashup between him and Jason for he's in 2003 Freddy vs. Jason. By the time a remake was announced in the late aughts, I was back into horror in a big way and was ready for more Freddy. And when Jackie Earle Haley, an actor I loved was revealed to be taking over for the iconic Robert England, and that the film was getting a decent budget to realize its fantastical dream sequences, I was hyped. Some months before the release, a friend of mine scored tickets to a preview screening of the movie, which I was only too happy to accept. There had been rumors of a troubled production as video director Samuel bear had never done a feature. But I was still hopeful it would be good. But the film we saw that night was a mess. It's hard for me to remember now 10 years later, what was different in the preview as compared to the official release. But I do remember the original opening scene took place at a high school party, and that the climax featured out of place religious imagery, and that at one point Freddy showed up in monk's robes. It was weird to say the least. When the film was released to the public, I saw it again out of curiosity and thought that improvements had been made, and that the movie had some redeeming qualities overall, but that ultimately it felt inconsequential, and that Jackie Earle Haley fell far short of the great Robert England. critics and fans were far less kind to it than I was another film made a profit it pretty much shut down the Platinum dunes remake machine for good. No sequel was ever announced. And Fred has been absent from our dreams and from movie screens ever since. So what went wrong? That's what we're here to discuss on this episode of Tentpole Trauma, the 2010 remake of the Nightmare on Elm Street.
Unknown Speaker  4:02   All right, I'm Sebastian and I'm here with Jennifer. Hello. And Rodney from the pod forsaken podcast. Hey,
Unknown Speaker  4:10   everyone. Hello,
Unknown Speaker  4:12   Ronnie. Why haven't you called? Have you ever thought of rebranding the podcast to rod forsaken?
Unknown Speaker  4:18   You know, I bring that up to my co hosts every episode before we record. And because there's two of them, they always outvote me. But I I'm with you maybe you want to have a word with them.
Unknown Speaker  4:28   This is why you kill your other hosts.
Unknown Speaker  4:31   Oh, is is that why there were seven hosts here at 10
Unknown Speaker  4:34   years to be more hosts for Tentpole Trauma, but they are gone now. They died in their dreams. Tell us a little bit about your podcast.
Unknown Speaker  4:43   Piper Sagan horror podcast is a horror podcast where we kind of do the opposite. I think of what you guys do. We specifically pick horror movies that most people have never seen or maybe never even heard of. And then we watch them. We tell you about them. We usually do a format where First, the beginning of the episode, we watch the trailer for the movie we're going to do next week, so that you can, you know, you can watch the trailer and decide if this movie is for you. And then, you know, we talked about the movie with no spoilers give you kind of a review, and then we dive in and just spoil the shit out of it. But the whole point is that like, as we were all horror fans, obviously, and after a certain point, you have to start digging deep to find good stuff, right? Like theatrical, hollywood movies kind of start leaving a bad taste in your mouth. And so we started the podcast to help horror fans find the really good shit that's either foreign or like independently made that you might not know about. It's just a passion project that I do with some friends. And we've had a very good response so far. Although no one's probably gonna look me in the eyes and say, I hate your fucking podcast, but you're welcome to.
Unknown Speaker  5:55   Well, I've been meaning to tell you.
Unknown Speaker  5:57   Now is your moment.
Unknown Speaker  5:58   No, no, I love your podcasts. Awesome. Well, that's great. We're talking about the 2010 Nightmare on Elm Street remake directed by Samuel bear. And the reason why I chose it is not because it was a huge financial disaster because it actually wasn't it actually cost about $46 million or something and made three times that worldwide so it's not a financial disaster, but I do believe that it effectively the fan and Critical response for it was pretty much toxic. And it pretty much stopped the whole Platinum dunes remake trend dead in its tracks and there hasn't been any more they didn't do any more. Friday the 13th they didn't do another Texas Chainsaw at all. They shut down Platinum dunes Michael Bay's production horror remake company. So I consider it a you know, Tentpole Trauma because it wrecked the party, so to speak. Let's talk a little bit about your own personal history with the franchise. Jennifer, what what is your history with the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise?
Unknown Speaker  7:11   Well, I saw the first Nightmare on Elm Street, pretty young, I saw a lot of are probably way younger than I should have seen the pattern. But I was just really into it. And I most likely saw it on I know there's no way I didn't know but didn't have a cool enough parents to take me to the theater to see it. But I did probably catch it either on VHS or on, you know, HBO or something like that. Not you know, whenever it became available, but I first you know, heard about it through friends who had seen it older friends, you know, so I already had an idea of who Freddy was. And, you know, like how kids do you know, you're talking it up and then this happens. And he's got knives for fingers and then he says this and so you know, that was all amped up and then I saw it and I liked it. I thought it was scary. And did you see the first film first? Yes, the original Nightmare on Elm Street. You saw that first? Yes, I have the the films of the franchise that I've seen the most are the first and the third. I've seen the dream warriors. That was on TV a lot. And I really I appreciate the first one I love the first one but I probably like especially when I was younger was more into three right? But yeah, that was that was my you know an initial history with the franchise. I it's not my favorite of the horror franchise. I mean, I do like Freddy, but it's not my go to you know, there's, it's for me, it's not as consistent as some other franchises are, as far as like having a number of films that I like to go back to and enjoy. There's some that are kind of tough to get through in this one. In my opinion. Rodney, how about you? How what's your history with the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise?
Unknown Speaker  9:02   Never seen any of them?
Unknown Speaker  9:08   Was I supposed to watch?
Unknown Speaker  9:11   Actually, I wanted to say first of all, thank you guys for having me on. I didn't say that. And I think your show is really great. And it's like I'm really pumped to be here and jazzed to talk about this. I'm we're pumped to have
Unknown Speaker  9:22   you run. Yeah, I can tell from my voice. This is my pumped voice.
Unknown Speaker  9:26   I can tell that you are really jazzed. I'm sort of like we're Jenna's. I, I don't remember what my first one was. I feel like at a sleep over. Someone showed me part three. I had parents who were very lenient. I remember seeing part four by myself in a theater. I think my dad would like take me to the theater. He bought me the ticket. And then like once I went in, he'd like, go to a bar and have a drink and be like, I'll see when it's over. Right? I've never like I like them. But Jen's right. These movies are so all over the map. There are really great ones. And they're ones that are so low that like I, they're barely movies to me. But in general, they have really creative kills. And Freddy Krueger is like one of the most iconic villains of all time. It's just that there's no consistency between the movies. That's my biggest problem, right? Like, I was showing my wife them, and we just skipped over part two. I was like, you don't need part two. It's not canon watch.
Unknown Speaker  10:23   Part two is amazing.
Unknown Speaker  10:24   No, part two is you
Unknown Speaker  10:25   can't get over it. No,
Unknown Speaker  10:27   part two. I did. Part two is amazing. Ronnie, I'm sorry. Wait, I've got it. I can't let you think that I don't enjoy part two. Okay, well, let's not go down the rabbit hole.
Unknown Speaker  10:36   Fair enough. Fair enough. But look, I I enjoy all of the Friday 13th movies. I've seen them all now multiple times. So, uh, I you know, I? I've always been a Jason guy. I hope that's not a problem. But Freddie's probably my number two. No, that's not true. He's my number three. Chucky would be number two.
Unknown Speaker  10:57   I'm a Michael Meyers guy myself, and he has some of the worst movies. So it's not really about who's got the best movies, just Who's your guy? You know, I will say about the nightmare series. What I do appreciate about it is generally speaking, even the terrible ones have a certain amount of imagination. Just the premise in itself is inherently imaginative. And I kind of have to give it to Freddie for that. There's always something even in the most terrible of them. There's always some crazy interesting nightmare scenario that makes either makes me laugh, or I really enjoy. But let's move on to the subject of remakes in general, because this movie was sort of the final nail in the coffin in some ways of the whole remake trend of the 20 Arts, the early aughts. So Jen, what is your feeling on remakes in general? Like, I know, you're a big Texas Chainsaw fan, and you're not a fan of the Platinum dunes, Texas Chainsaw remake, which sort of kicked off this trend. What is your general feeling on remakes?
Unknown Speaker  12:01   Well, with remakes I kind of feel like you know, I love horror. So I'm always gonna give it a shot. And my expectations are pretty low. When I'm when I'm watching these like I have nowhere to go. But up. Texas Chainsaw I'm just so particularly protective of because it's just, there's nothing like the first Texas Chainsaw where you don't really like the franchise you just like the first movie in the second one. I mean, I pretty much do. Yeah, that's that's a fact. I mean, I appreciate I mean three is okay. And I appreciate for for being you know, the weird version that it is. But yeah, that that's not one of my favorite remakes. I did like the Friday the 13th remake. I've seen I've saw that in the theater. And I've seen that several times sense. There's Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's there's none that are really standing out that I'm like, Oh, this is you know, I've never once been like this was better than the first one.
Unknown Speaker  12:58   Look, there are remakes that I think are really good. I'll point to the ring. And the ring is an excellent remake. Agreed. I actually, I think it comes down to how much do you care about the original film and if you saw it, for example, I've and I know this might get me kicked off. But I've never been a big Texas Chainsaw Massacre fan. Like, I just never I saw it growing up and it never, it never impacted me the way that it impacts a lot of people. So when I saw the Platinum dunes remake, I was like, Hey, this is pretty good, right? Because I have no emotional attachment to it. But when I saw the Friday the 13th one or like the recent Child's Play remake, the Friday 13th one is okay. It's got some cool shit. But like in general, remakes just anger me because they're so clearly a cash grab, right? It's just like, yo, let's just capitalize on this thing. For money sake, when the original thing was actually a thing of passion. And every once in a while the remake is done by someone who is passionate, and you end up with something good, but it's rare. I mean, you point to like, Ocean's 11 as another great example. And that movie is fucking awesome. And that's a remake. But in general, if I see it's a remake, it's probably bad and I don't care.
Unknown Speaker  14:05   I am sort of weirdly optimistic about these things. I feel I'm in a sort of strange position there as a horror fan because I feel most horror fans are not like that. But I get kind of excited with with Texas Chainsaw I was I found I was very skeptical about that one because I feel that the original is such a specific thing that you can't recapture that you can't recapture that in the 2000s you can't recreate the 70s and the grime and just the atmosphere of the time that is so inherent in that film. Were something like Freddy Krueger or Nightmare on Elm Street. As much as I love the West Craven original and I love the West Craven original I like Part Two for its craziness horse. I love dream warriors. I generally think that's probably the most fun of all of them. You know, when when they announced that they were doing the Nightmare on Elm Street remake or reboot or whatever, they were pitching it as I was actually kind of excited at the idea of it because I thought, well, there's an idea that you could do now, it would still be just as relevant now. And with modern special effects, you might be able to really take it somewhere really crazy. So I was game for it. And, you know, I felt that most horror fans were definitely not.
Unknown Speaker  15:31   Yeah, I was I was up for it. I saw it in the theater. It was again, though, the way that I like I said, I approach remakes in general, where I didn't have the the optimism that you did. I was just kind of like, well, let's, you know, let's see what they're gonna do with it. Because I'm just, like I said, happy to get another horror movie. And, you know, it's, I do like, Friday a lot. And I want and I do like, Jackie Earle, Haley. And let's, let's see what's going to happen.
Unknown Speaker  15:59   So Jackie Earle Haley is Freddie was a draw was sort of a draw for you.
Unknown Speaker  16:03   Sort of because because I'm definitely a fan. Like, I like him a lot. I mean, there's several of his films. And he was this is when he was, you know, starting to make a comeback and do more stuff. And yeah, I was I was I was game.
Unknown Speaker  16:18   You know, it's funny. I'm with you, Sebastian. On this one. I was excited. I remember thinking, hey, platinum dunes has pretty much delivered above average contents to me so far, and it was rated R, and hey, they got Jackie Earle Haley, and he's done some great shit. I was jazz. I thought this was going to be a pretty good time, you know? So yeah, I saw that. I think opening weekend Jackie Earle
Unknown Speaker  16:41   Haley was sort of coming off of watchmen at the time playing roar shack, which, you know, has some similarities to Freddy Krueger. So I think people were excited to see him take on the role. If they were excited about it. They were excited to see him take it on because of horshack. And because of the other stuff he had done, he had done little children or something like that before, which had a sort of similar type of icky character in it. So it seemed pretty promising. Now the film is directed by Samuel Bayer. Do you guys know what his claim to fame is?
Unknown Speaker  17:17   Yes, I do now, but only because I looked it up.
Unknown Speaker  17:20   He directed the the Smells Like Teen Spirit video from Nirvana. And he also directed the bee girl video for Blind Melon. So you know, no rain. He's a guy who looked clearly has some visual talent. The weird thing and I remember thinking this at the time is, why isn't he directed any feature film until now, this was his first feature film, as a director, you would have thought coming out of you know, the 90s when Fincher and other guys who were video directors were sort of becoming big directors, you would have thought that this guy would have gotten his shot way before 2010 and Nightmare on Elm Street remake. But this was his first movie, I don't think most people knew that his of his pedigree going in. So I don't think it really made much of a difference to most people. You know, we get our sort of opening scene. You know, the movie sort of starts off I think like most horror movies of the era with a kind of creepy credit sequence where we get some flashes of little kids playing hopscotch and stuff. And then we get our sort of opening sequence, which takes place in the diner. We have the Twilight's Kellan Lutz as this tormented teen, and he sort of wandering around in the kitchen looking, you know, he clearly has gone into sort of a dream sequence and there's like, you know, hog heads and stuff. And we sort of get a glimpse of Rooney Mara as Nancy. Freddy shows up, and he wakes up. And Katie Cassidy, who's playing, I believe her name is Chris, but she's clearly modeled after the Tina character in the original. She was also in the show arrow, she shows up and they have this sort of conversation. He's initially just like, asking for coffee and normal serve them. So he's like being ignored. And you don't know at first, but he's dreaming. But then when he goes back into the kitchen, and it seems like he's in a boiler room, yeah.
Unknown Speaker  19:23   And then the all the gross like, animal heads and stuff, but not good. And then we see the glove swipe Adam, and then he then then we see him wake up, and his hand is cut. And so yeah, you know, it's 100% clear. That's what's going on. He was dreaming. And then he's talking with Chris, and she was also in some other remakes as well. She was in when a stranger calls and the, I think the black Christmas remake to where you see Nancy and she's talking to the guy from Jennifer's body, and there's like that's going on in question. Quintin Kyle gallon I think his name is Yeah. And yeah, so then we were that's all going on and then Dean has passed out again and then we get the him with the steak knife. And yeah, it's I don't know, I thought like, okay, we're starting off good here like this is like, I didn't see that coming Fred shows up and basically makes him stab himself in the neck with a steak knife. Yeah. And I thought that was I thought we were starting off strong.
Unknown Speaker  20:29   Overall, there's something weird about the scene, the way the movie starts. And maybe it's intentional that like, they want you to, they want to throw you off your foot right from the start because you're in a dream. But there's something about that whole opening scene where they just like they're cramming every character in the movie into this one diner. And the, the, the guy who kills himself, Dean, he's doing that thing in horror movies, where like, he can't just put a sentence together to explain what's going on. Right? He's just like, he's a mess. And he's like, Ah, man, don't close. Don't go to sleep, man. Don't you can't sleep. I'm like, explain to her why. And she's like, oh, you're just imagining things and, and like the hogs heads boiling in the in the pots and shit. This is going to be a recurring thing I'm going to talk about which is that the dream sequences in this movie are so lame and unimaginative. And I will give credit that when he stabs himself in the neck. That was awesome. It looks really good. Yeah. I also want to point out, did you guys catch that? I don't think went back because I went back and watch the trailer. This is clearly not the original opening they shot. He does in the trailer.
Unknown Speaker  21:33   Not only am I aware of that, but I saw an advanced screening of this movie. Oh, shit, yes. And it had a completely different opening sequence that this whole diner sequence was a reshoot the original scene that I saw an advanced screening it took place at a party. They were just they were just at a house party.
Unknown Speaker  21:55   That's what you see in the trailer. And so this diner scene feels like a reshoot.
Unknown Speaker  22:00   It totally is. 100%. That explains it. Yeah. So and I agree with what you're saying. It's, it seems like they're like, well, we got to get all the characters set up in the scene. And I think one of the drawbacks of this film, in terms of just its narrative is that it really sort of accelerates everything so that you can tell they're just like, Okay, we got to get the kids set up, you got to know who the kids are. And, you know, they're all having these dreams. And we got to know about the dreams and you know, like by the second scene, we're at a funeral. And now Chris is having more is having another sort of dream was that she sees her little self in front of the, in front of the coffin and for the Fred's glove comes out and slashes are. So you know, we're getting, we're getting thrown right into it. And we're learning about the gang and their dreams. And we're meeting Connie Britton and Clancy Brown as the parents. So yeah, I feel like there's definitely a sort of sweat Enos to the setup of the film where they're like, okay, we just got to get this thing going, like, let's go, let's go, let's go. This
Unknown Speaker  23:05   movie has no chill. That's what it comes down to. It's constantly, it's constantly trying to insist how cool and scary it is in every moment. And therefore it never has any dread. Again, there's, you know, the shooting of the diner scene, like, I like the lighting of it. I thought that was cool. I think
Unknown Speaker  23:21   it looks good.
Unknown Speaker  23:23   Visually, it looks good. Which I would expect from a music video director.
Unknown Speaker  23:26   Absolutely. Right. It's got a slickness to it. That is sort of in line with the Platinum dunes remakes in general. But I do think I think my primary disappointment in a lot of the dream sequences is really that they're just kind of rehashing what happened in the original film. And in some cases, they're doing it way worse. Yeah, like the porn Fred comes out of the wall. It's really underwhelming because it just looks like this CGI blob, peeling off the wall, where in the original Freddie? New notice I'm differentiating between Fred and Freddie. And that's because Jennifer and I own a Fred Krueger, action figure, his name? Krueger, and it's Jackie Earle Haley in his like gardener uniform.
Unknown Speaker  24:17   So you're the one who bought that.
Unknown Speaker  24:19   Yes. We go to Nancy's house and she's chillin with her iPod. She's doing like creepy drawings because she's a, you know, disturbed artist. That's when we get Freddie coming through the wall, which looks terrible. I think it looks so bad. And as I was saying, in the original, the effect is so cheap. It's just some tarp or something covered with paint. And in there, there's somebody pushing through the tarp. But it looks so much better than this CGI nonsense, which I'm sure was a lot more expensive. And just to put it out there. I'm not the you know, practical effects are always He's better guy. I'm just not I I like both things. I love a great practical effect. And I love a well done CGI effect. So I, you know, I'm up for them using state of the art computer imagery to accentuate Freddy and his powers. But this is just terrible. And it really sort of sets a bad taste in your mouth early on,
Unknown Speaker  25:24   right? But it's also like in the original there's like a creepiness the way it's slowly the wall slowly pushes in, right? Yeah. And this one is really like a blob that goes, ah, like as though they're trying to make a jumpscare out of it is the combination of the goofiness of the gras mixed with it's literally like the worst CG I've ever seen. It's tear it's like langdell lirs level in this one moment.
Unknown Speaker  25:45   Yeah, it's it's really bad. Well,
Unknown Speaker  25:47   I think also, it's it's not only is it doesn't look good, it's like it's such a forgettable moment. Whereas in the original it's, it's a memorable moment. Like this is it happens. So like you said, it's like rod happens so fast that it's like, if I would not have made a note of this. I would have forgotten it. Yeah, like that. That's and I've seen this movie multiple times. Now. Why? I don't know. But I have. Yeah, I don't know. I just think it's some it's it's such a blip on the radar. It's like really quick with her. She's like sketching this like Fred blobs out and then cut to where it Chris next where Chris like talking about to her mom about the photos. Like why doesn't she remember being in these photos? Because they had photos at the funeral? And where are more photos? Like I don't know. How do I know? You know, she's she's having the whole issue that she didn't think she met Dean until high school. Yeah. So like, how is she in these high kid photos? And mom's been super cagey about it. Yeah. So yeah, but it feels like that's that's how quickly it happens. Is this like blob with Nancy? Hey, Chris. Chris has questions.
Unknown Speaker  26:57   Yeah, it sort of plays into rod nice. This has no, this movie has no chill.
Unknown Speaker  27:01   There's so many, like, very forced, and sudden jumpscares you know, and like to be like when I was watching it. I genuinely was trying to watch it as though I've never seen A Nightmare on Elm Street film before I was trying to judge it as though it's just a movie called The nightmare killer. Right? And even under those criteria, it's so forced, you know, it's just like, there's so many moments of these just like a sudden CUT TO Freddy Krueger jumping out of the shadows with the loudest Stinger in the world. And then the scene moves on. Again, if I if I had if I use let me talk for an hour, I would just talk about how you shouldn't be allowed to make a horror movie unless you love horror movies. And if I'm sure you've done your research, but apparently Michael Bay offered this movie to Samuel Bayer twice and he turned it down twice. He basically had to convince him What a financial windfall, it would be for him. Right? And I gotta tell you, if you're a director, and someone offers you a smash, imagine someone said you can direct the next Freddy Krueger movie, would you
Unknown Speaker  28:04   say no, I would pop a million boners
Unknown Speaker  28:08   there's no say this. This guy said no. Thank you twice. So this guy doesn't deserve to be directing a Freddy Krueger movie. And that's what you end up getting is a movie that comes from someone who doesn't get what makes Freddy Krueger cool. And what makes movies scary, huh?
Unknown Speaker  28:23   Yeah, I mean, I mostly agree with that. But I do sometimes think we put too much of a premium on filmmakers being fans of things like, oh, if they're not a fan, they shouldn't do it. I don't really care if somebody is a fan of the movie or the property or not. If they can make a good movie, they can make a good movie. I would be more concerned about the fact that Samuel Baird never made a movie in general. Sure, let's add
Unknown Speaker  28:51   that on the pie like
Unknown Speaker  28:52   that. I would be more as from a producing standpoint that would give me pause more. But one thing I think he did a pretty okay job with is a cast. I think the cast is mostly pretty good.
Unknown Speaker  29:05   I like the cast. I like all of the kids. I'm like I said I recognized you know, a couple from other horror movies. And then of course, the like the adults like they've got some heavy hitters. I mean, Connie Britton's, a great actor, and so was Clancy Brown. I mean, those are the the two most recognizable to me. And of course, Jackie Earle, Haley.
Unknown Speaker  29:27   I did miss the drunken mom from the original
Unknown Speaker  29:30   Nancy's drunken mom. Yeah, I know this mom Connie Britton had it way more together. She was way more on top of things. She should have been into pills or
Unknown Speaker  29:37   something. You know, they should have had gotten her into oxy. Just to modernize it.
Unknown Speaker  29:43   Yeah. Missed up missed opportunity. I think
Unknown Speaker  29:46   weirdly, Rooney Mara kind of comes off the worst, which is too bad because she's our Nancy. I feel like the other quote unquote teens do pretty well. I like Kyle gulnur I actually like the actress who plays Chris. I think she does a pretty good job. But Rooney seems a little lost. She seems like she doesn't know what she's supposed to be doing. You know, her characters kind of supposed to be the dark one, I guess, because she does dark drawings. But she works at the diner, and she's kind of got, you know, a little sass to her. So it's kind of hard to get a bead on her. I think, you know, I think she's done some pretty good work over the years. But this, I feel like she seems a little a little lost here.
Unknown Speaker  30:37   You know, I see where you're coming from. I quit the whole time. I couldn't decide how I thought about Rooney Mara, for me. I think overall, she works because like, I believe she's in high school, and she's got a kind of a young face. And I yeah, I don't really know her as a character. But I get that she's like, she's tired and sad. And then she draws sad pictures, right? Yeah. For me. The problem for me, it is Chris. And it's not because of her performance. It's because she looks like she's 45 years old. And I did not believe for one second. She's in high school. Like, literally when she's like talking to her mom, I thought they were like friends, like at wine book club or something. I expected a scene for her to go pick up kids. And I couldn't understand why you would cat like she's clearly like 29 to 32 years old, and she made this movie. And I was like, why can't they just get actual, like 18 year old people to play 18 year old people. Having said that, if you can look past that. Yeah, she's okay. I don't think anyone in this movie is doing what I would call a good job. Everyone's doing a, an okay, job. If I had to give an acting award out. I'd give it to Clinton. I liked his performance the best.
Unknown Speaker  31:43   Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's fair. But I also think that when you look back at pretty much any horror franchise cast, there are very few where you say, these are all award worthy performances. A lot of times the actors acquit themselves well, but it's not like I felt that these, this was all on par. They were all doing what they were asked to do and doing it. Well, but the big question is, Jackie Earle, Haley. Okay. Oh, boy, we are all pretty excited about Jackie, as Freddy or Fred, as it were. I remember seeing, you know, production stills of his makeup and I was like, Well, okay, I see what they're doing. They're going for like a legit burn victim look here rather than the stylized look of of Robert Anglin. And let's just get it out of the way. You know, Robert, England is iconic is Freddy Krueger, there's, you know, there's no way that anybody's ever going to play this character and not be compared unfavorably to to Robert England. It's his role, but I appreciated Well, they're going sort of a different direction here. They're trying to make it look more realistic. And you know, I did like his little tic where he he rubs his knives together. I thought that was a the one kind of cool thing he did. But I have to say, overall, I was fun kind of let down. One of my big problems is and this is not his fault. But he's a short man. And you can tell he's a short man. And a lot of the scenes, you know, you're, you're like, are we watching leprechaun? Is he? What are we doing leprechaun here? I mean, you know, he's just not a big guy. And it's kind of hard to make this little dude. be super scary. I think he has the attitude. He hasn't. I mean, he I wouldn't say he has the Freddie attitude, but he has an attitude. He has a very scary voice and a scary presence. But overall, I just found his stature and his look to be a little off putting.
Unknown Speaker  34:03   I had high hopes. Because I am such a fan. It's just it's this really, it just doesn't really work for me. Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker  34:12   don't have to apologize.
Unknown Speaker  34:15   I mean, but but I really wanted it to you know, and it's like even the semoran I was like, I don't know, it's just and i think it's it's just because Robert England is so iconic. I just that's who Freddie is to me and I know this is Fred Krueger cuz that's what we're referring to him is in the remake. And you know, I appreciate them trying to do something different and it's not his acting or anything like that. It's just I don't know, it's this the the character looks it just looks he looks strange. It's not scary. It's just it's not even like it's it's hard to look at or off putting or anything like that. It just doesn't I don't know. It just doesn't work for me,
Unknown Speaker  34:59   either. I'm totally with you, Jen. It's just wrong. And, and I am, again, trying to let go of the fact that he can't be Robert England, right? Like, you can't live up to that. So I kind of expected him to do something really different with the roll. And I'm with you, Subash. And the cool thing he does is when he like, rubs his fingers together, and they make that blade sound as like, yeah, that's cool. But that's it. I think the look of him. He looks stupid. Like, it's like, he's got these weird like, kind of buck teeth that make them look kind of dorky, right? And I know they're going for like a burn look, but like, he doesn't look disgusting. And he looks kind of gross, but he's not scary looking. And on top of that, what they do with his voice is like, he never sounds like he's in the scene. All of his his his dialogue has been recorded in ADR? Yes. And it's just like, it's like floating digitally on top of the scene. Yes. So it, I know that that's a choice to like, make it cool and creepy. But the whole time I was sitting there, I was like, why does this not work? Like, why is this not cool? And I was like, I don't know. He's just, he's just not cool. He's like, slow moving. His lines aren't very good. His delivery isn't really good. bad job, bad job. I was gonna say maybe you shouldn't hire famous actors. I'd rather just have no buddies playing my monsters. I remember reading a little bit about the production. And I think that the reason why his lines are so heavily ADR is because they rewrote a lot of his dialogue. They weren't happy with whatever the initial stuff was. And so they just kind of kept redoing it in post. And I feel like you can kind of hear a little bit of annoyance in Jackie Earle Haley, his voice, like, I've got to know, what's this line?
Unknown Speaker  36:48   Yeah, his lines are weird. Like, they're trying to be funny. But they're not really funny, cuz they're in this really tough, tough position of trying to live up to Robert, England's sort of famous one lines and taunting. You know, I think the only one I really liked is when he says like, Why are you screaming? I haven't even cut you yet. That one I'm like, yeah, that's pretty good. You know, but you know, he, you know, most of them are kind of creepy in a bad way. They play up the sirt, the child molester angle of the character that was only really hinted at and wisely. So I believe in the original. And so, you know, his lines are sort of coming from this perverted place a lot of the time, and I really don't think that helps sell the lovability of
Unknown Speaker  37:43   Freddie. That's kind of like what's I think doesn't sit well, for myself and sounds like you and probably Rodney as well as it's like, because we just knew him, you know, originally as a child murderer, and which is implied, you know, we don't there wasn't just killing there was probably other things that were going on that were terrible as well. However, now, it's all about the yuck stuff. And it's like, that's just that can't be funny. You can't have like, one liners and like be like creepy like that. And it's like, you just don't know what to do with that more. yuck, yuck.
Unknown Speaker  38:19   And less yuck, I think is the problem.
Unknown Speaker  38:23   You know what I think it is? Original Freddy Krueger, he there's a certain gleeful pneus to the fact that he gets to kill people in dreams. Even in the first movie where he has very few lines. You can tell he enjoys what he's doing. But this version is more like a suffering burn victim who's like condemned to this hellish fate. And he's, you know, he wants revenge, but it doesn't seem like he really loves being the dream Master, if you will, or whatever I know. He's not the remaster is actually that other girl but whatever, you know, I mean, yeah, yeah. And that's not even touching all the child molesters stuff, which I assume we're gonna go into more depth. Because that's like a major change. We're we'll
Unknown Speaker  39:01   save that for the last act because that's when it really comes into play. But I feel that it's in there even in these you know, opening sequences. He sort of leaning into this being creepy in a weird sort of subtly sexual way.
Unknown Speaker  39:17   Yeah,
Unknown Speaker  39:18   I did kind of think just because it's so weird. We moved into the second act. We have Chris, she you know, she's kind of freaking out. She's sort of learning about this past the shared past that they all have in this preschool. And you know, she really knew all these her friends, but they didn't. They don't remember each other. And there's this sort of dream sequence where she goes out and she's like, cheers her dog barking which the dog it was a really cute dog, but she goes out and the dog is Rufus. Yes. And but Rufus is dead. Fred has killed Rufus only in the dream, I think. I don't think Rufus is dead in real life unless Rufus was dreaming and He killed Rufus and Rufus his dream, in which case they should have definitely have had a dog dream. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker  40:05   I wanted to see the dog dream go into a nightmare like the dog running around the boiler room chasing bones that keep running away from him.
Unknown Speaker  40:13   I have a bone to pick with the boiler room, but let me get there in a second. I did kind of like it in an ironic way when she goes out to find Rufus and Rufus is dead and Fred's like, I was just petting him with his claws, I was like, you know, for this movie, that was a pretty good line. But really, you know, a lot of these things that happen in this second act build up are just sort of replays of what happened in the original
Unknown Speaker  40:44   one thing I think that was different was I don't recall I don't think I've seen the first one a million times I don't think that Broadcom to Nancy's house in the first one. Like is the guy Jesse? I don't think so. I mean, I only remember Glenn coming to her bedroom window.
Unknown Speaker  41:03   No, I don't think he does.
Unknown Speaker  41:05   I don't think so either. So that was something that was a little different as we get Jesse like stopping off at Nancy's right, like it covered in blood and all of that
Unknown Speaker  41:13   the suit only comes in through bedroom windows, he doesn't
Unknown Speaker  41:16   know what front doors are for. Not at all, just all about the windows. And one
Unknown Speaker  41:20   thing I want to say about the Chris murder scene is in the original, it was done with the old revolving room trick. And you see her kind of climbing the walls, because they've shot it with a stationary camera. But with a room that goes around in this, it's very clearly, they probably have a set with no real ceiling and they've got her on wires. And they're like throwing around the room and wires and then digitally erasing the wires in the ceiling and stuff and it's not bad looking. It looks it looks fine. But when you compare it to the ingenuity of the original, it once again comes up short
Unknown Speaker  42:01   you're spot on like it again, the the original is so much like it's so cool the way that original scene is shot. And this one she's flying around, and it's just not as powerful because it's not shot from the perspective of the guy on the floor. Her death is cool when she gets like split down the middle and blood wells up like it. It's a violent scene and I was like okay, yeah, but can we just briefly talk about how much time we spend with Chris as like the main character like yeah, we're on Chris for I didn't time it but it felt like 30 minutes before we actually like I know you we meet Rooney Mara, but it basically it tries to do the psycho thing where it's like, this blonde girl is the main character, but gotcha. And I'm like, but Ivor I know Rooney's the main character's name is Nancy, why are we wasting all this time?
Unknown Speaker  42:48   Yeah. Well, you know, I guess they're trying to fake out the younger crowd who is not familiar with the original, totally fair. But as somebody who is a fan of the series, it does sort of feel like they're being weirdly too slavish to the original, at least in that first half of the second act. Now, as the second act goes on, we, you know, we get things that are sort of new additions to the story, in the whole preschool backstory is not in the original, they have a vague sort of implication of stuff like that, and the original, but they really lean into it here. I don't mind that. I think it's, you know, it's I'm just glad that they're doing something kind of different, at least at that point.
Unknown Speaker  43:36   I will say that, out of all the things they could have named the preschool, they call it the bad ham squad. And I was like, Yeah, I know. It says bad, but that's bad ham. Yeah. Which is a really weird name. The name did anything. But the one the one thing I will give this movie some credit for, I mean, there's a couple others, but the fact that they all knew each other when they were kids, and they all went to the same school and interacted with Fred Krueger when he was alive. It makes more sense why the parents would be dismissive of their their nightmares, right? because they'd say your, your they would think you're having traumatic nightmares of that guy that molested you. That makes sense to me. As opposed to in the other vert in the original where it's like, That's funny. My daughter's dreaming of that man I murdered that she never met. Right? Yeah. So I and I do like the the idea of like, Rooney or Chris, whoever you want to say discovers it that like finding out that they're all connected and finding the photograph, and I do give credit for that because it does create like a breadcrumb trail for her to follow. Yeah, I didn't mind it at all.
Unknown Speaker  44:43   I actually also wanted to bring up there was something that I had forgotten about, and that I saw on this watch, which takes us to the bad ham school. It was that you know, Nancy's in the tub, and you know, you see Freddie's glove. Come on. But I'm like, and I was like, here we go, you know, we're just going to do what we did with that before. And they did a little differently, which I appreciated that. And also, they brought some technology into it because she had a cell phone alarm to wake her up now, which that wasn't available
Unknown Speaker  45:18   cell phones, which felt really outdated. Now they like they're super outdated 2010.
Unknown Speaker  45:24   Man, when I see outdated cell phones and movies.
Unknown Speaker  45:29   Those phones are so old.
Unknown Speaker  45:33   Anyway. Yeah. But yeah, I appreciated the addition of the school and that that whole thing, because I really did like that from the original as well, like in which they didn't go in as deep. But you know, just that it's a creepy, the creepy concept. So then after that,
Unknown Speaker  45:51   after that whole scene, like Quentin, basically, she wakes up in the tub, and Clinton calls and tells her Jesse is dead. Then we get this pre reg requisite scene and every horror movie where Quentin is researching. He's running low on his pharmaceutical speed, but he's researching on gigablast. All about dreams and stuff at the like coffee shop library. He and Nancy gigablast. The batum preschool. You know, how is fat ham? Bad? I mean, I'm like, maybe it's a reference to john batum, the director of Saturday Night Fever and the 1979 Dracula, but that's probably a stretch. And you know that I believe this is when they set up the idea of micro naps where you can you can just be so sort of fall asleep just for a few seconds. I have a feeling we might have saw an argument about this. So I'm excited. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker  46:56   I feel it's growing.
Unknown Speaker  46:59   I feel the opposite of whatever you I
Unknown Speaker  47:02   kind of like the micro naps idea. What do you think about that? Rodney? Do you like my
Unknown Speaker  47:11   fuck micro naps, bro.
Unknown Speaker  47:13   I think this is the dumbest mugging thing in the entire movie. And from this point forward, it becomes such a laughingstock of a film because of the introduction of this concept. I I literally hate it. I it basically is an excuse to have non stop jumpscares from this point forward. Yeah, I do like them?
Unknown Speaker  47:36   Well, first of all, it ups the stakes a little bit. Because you know, we're not just waiting for them to get tired and fall asleep. Now things can kind of happen at the at like any moment. And at one point there, they're back at the high school, I think. And that's when we get Nancy seeing the Chris character in the body bag, which is another visual reference to something that happens and the original one, again, not done as well. I totally agree with you. And you definitely are right, that now they've got licensed to throw jumpscares at you at a dizzying pace. So I'll give you that, that that is a noxious byproduct of the micro naps. But I do think that there's some fun to be had with them. And it allows things to happen, like, you know, one character to walk down a hallway and see, you know, scary vision and, and whatever. And it also allows for Quentin to have a micro nap. As he's at his swim meet. I really appreciated how pasty or Kyle Kyle gulnar or whatever it was, he's like really pasty. And you can tell that he's probably doesn't swim. And he's looking really uncomfortable in his little Speedo suit. But you know, he has a micro nap. And he wakes up in like a pool in a warehouse district. Like he just wakes up in this pool. And it's like outside. I mean, I guess it's a dream, so whatever. But then we're sort of treated to the origin quote, unquote, of Fred, where the parents are chasing him into this warehouse room, and they throw Molotov cocktails in the room and burn him alive. And as he's burning alive, he rips off his jacket to expose the striped sweater. Which I felt was it was a real forced reveal of the sweater.
Unknown Speaker  49:44   I'm like, bro, I've been watching your movie for an hour. I already know what his sweater looks like. This is not a reveal. Obviously that's the bad guy. Wait, I need to park on this moment real quick because I know you want to talk about the origin but that swim meets is the worst scene I've seen in almost any horror movie and it The scene I referenced whenever I talk about this to anyone the guy falls asleep while swimming. He's in the middle of a swim meet and he falls asleep. Someone wrote that and they like put it in a movie. It makes no sense, guys, come on. It's
Unknown Speaker  50:16   it's a micro nap right
Unknown Speaker  50:18   now, he's he just nodded off for a second in the middle of swimming.
Unknown Speaker  50:24   That's how powerful they are.
Unknown Speaker  50:26   You know what I'm gonna stay awake for three days straight just to see I want to see if I can fall asleep while I'm making a sandwich and then just wake up with the sandwich in my mouth. That's actually way more believable than swimming. All right, I've said my piece about this.
Unknown Speaker  50:38   But you guys we didn't we we forgot to talk about this is right before we get into the how Fred was burned with the Molotov cocktails or whatever. We did have that flashback. And I think we would we have to take a moment for this. Where we get to see Fred Krueger as a gardener. Mm hmm. Yeah, he's not. He's not burned. No, Lacy's looks very, very nice. And I got it. He's got like a kind of a strange Southern accent. And he's he's, you know, living in the basement of the preschool. Yes.
Unknown Speaker  51:13   Nothing, nothing weird about that. I mean, you know,
Unknown Speaker  51:16   be there.
Unknown Speaker  51:18   And just the gardener. He lived in the basement of the preschool. And boy, he loved you kids.
Unknown Speaker  51:24   Kids were his life. And we see him just so happy with all the kids.
Unknown Speaker  51:29   You have a job get an apartment. Why are you living in the basement of the school? And how come everyone is okay with this?
Unknown Speaker  51:34   Right? Like, how why were any parents okay with sending their kids to a school where the weirdo gardener lives in the basement? And it's okay. And he he like, it's okay that they go down there and do like art projects with him or
Unknown Speaker  51:50   whatever. Honey, did you fill out that application for the bad ham school? You know, they have their own on premises gardener slash caretakers slash kid blodger. babysitter?
Unknown Speaker  52:04   Yeah. So yeah, it seems a little seems like, you know, Fred got caught doing some stuff. So so they burn him alive. There's a really sort of bad moment where he runs out of the burning building, and he's on fire. But here's, here's my real problem with all of this is, throughout this movie, both before and after this scene, we get boiler room imagery. There's no friggin boiler room in any of this origin. Like he's not in a boiler room. Is he supposed to be in a boiler room and they burn them all? I mean, in the original movie, they burn him alive in a boiler room. And that's why the boiler room is sort of his primary dream, hunting ground. Like that's why he's always drawing people into the boiler room is because that's where he died. This isn't a boiler room. It's like some sort of like relay room. There's like, it's not a boiler room. And this always really bugged me about the movie, like why does he bring children? Why does he bring these teenagers into his dream boiler room, he didn't die in one
Unknown Speaker  53:09   because when he was alive, he always wanted a boiler.
Unknown Speaker  53:15   Like one day, I'm gonna move out of this preschool basement, the boiler room and My dream is
Unknown Speaker  53:21   to a suite boiler room.
Unknown Speaker  53:24   And your parents denied me that I'm gonna kill you all.
Unknown Speaker  53:29   You're totally right, it I it makes no sense in this movie, because because the answer to your question anytime you have a question, it's because that's what happened in the original right, I'll just do it again. But I come back to the point that the director doesn't actually like the movie. So he doesn't care about answering these things with any detail.
Unknown Speaker  53:47   Yeah, it really even when I first saw the movie, and I think I was a lot more forgiving on the movie than probably either view and move upon my first view. Well, no, actually, no, my first viewing I was not forgiving of it because I saw a test screening and it was pretty much resoundingly terrible. And we all gave it terrible marks. But then I saw it again, when it came out, however many months later, and I was like, Well, okay, they kind of improved it like, this is better, you know, good. I'm glad you took my notes.
Unknown Speaker  54:15   If I've learned anything from your from your podcast, it's that instead of just watching good movies, if I just watch the bad ones over and over, I'll start to like them.
Unknown Speaker  54:23   Yeah, I call it force feeding Rodney.
Unknown Speaker  54:27   Yeah, I've seen the Wolf Man 42 times now it's pretty good.
Unknown Speaker  54:32   It's It is hard in this movie. I'll give you that. We then we move on to Nancy watching a video blog because those were pretty hip back then. 2010 we get the Asian actor from the Friday the 13th remake I don't remember his name so I'm sorry.
Unknown Speaker  54:49   it's um it's it's an it well, I don't know what is his name in the I wrote down his name was Martin neon. I think that was his character names character that is Yeah. I don't know what his real name is off the top of my
Unknown Speaker  55:02   head. Anyway, he's in the Friday the 13th remake his main characters, and he's pretty good in that. You know?
Unknown Speaker  55:08   Yeah. No, he's He's good. He's like, kind of this kind of a stoner in that, right? Yes.
Unknown Speaker  55:13   Yeah, I think he's the dude, he gets the screwdriver. And
Unknown Speaker  55:16   here, he just talks into the screen. And then he's, you know, talking about how he can't sleep. And now he's being tormented by Friday. And then he like, smashes his head against the screen. So it's basically a snuff blog, because we are going to assume he's dead after that. And then we sort of get this, you know, Clinton comes back from his dream and he confronts Clancy Brown, who's his father, who is he a guidance counselor, he, he's a teacher at the school, but they never make it clear. There's
Unknown Speaker  55:49   I thought there was a line about him being the guidance counselor.
Unknown Speaker  55:52   That's what I thought, too. That was the only thing I could grasp on to for all i know, he was the principal, I'd have no idea. He and in Nancy confront dad about killing Fred. He says they might have made it up. This is also a frustrating moment in the movie, because at that point, I'm like, Oh, that's a good twist. Like they did it just didn't even happen. Like he was a he was a falsely accused. I feel like if they had gone in that direction, and I'm sure there is a draft of the script, where they did go in that direction, and then they chickened out. But I feel like that was a potentially a good twist that Freddy could have Fred could have been innocent.
Unknown Speaker  56:36   Even though I've seen this before. I'd forgotten that until when it popped up this time. And I was like, Oh, yeah, they're doing a whole like the McMartin trial, you know, type thing that what was that the preschool where you know, that the owners were accused of something? Yeah. Like, they were doing that the satanic panic stuff or whatever. Yeah. Which was all bullshit. So I yeah, I was like, oh, they're gonna do this now because that was the, you know, Quintin and Nancy were, you know, saying to Clancy Brown, we were just kids, we could have said anything, why didn't you go to the police? And I thought, okay, yeah, let's let's get this makes it even better that, you know, he wasn't a creep. Like he was unjustly murdered by the mob.
Unknown Speaker  57:17   Well, and it gives gives Fred a real reason to come after them, which I'd never really felt that he had even in the original film. He's like, why is he it never really made total sense to me. Why Fred is after the kids. And I felt like this cuz
Unknown Speaker  57:34   he's like, you guys totally stop my murder spree. And I'm pissed. So I'm gonna kill your kids. Like,
Unknown Speaker  57:41   I guess that's as good of a reason as any to come back from the dead.
Unknown Speaker  57:46   That's enough. That's sometimes that's all you need.
Unknown Speaker  57:48   Well, I yeah, I just think it would have been a nice layer two, you might have actually sympathized with Fred at that point that you know, when he's coming back for vengeance, because they really screwed him over. But they back out of that the climax, which is kind of lame. Okay, so now, here's where we're going to resume our fight about the micro naps because quainton has run out of his pharmaceutical speed. So they go to the pharmacy. And so that we had get this whole sort of set piece that takes place in the pharmacy where Quentin's trying to get his drugs, the pharmacist isn't going to let him have his drugs, Nancy's having micro naps in the car, and she burned, you know, she's got to burn herself with the car lighter, to stay awake. And then she goes into the pharmacy. And I think this is the best scene in the movie, for one reason, because it's not doing anything that was done in the original and doing it poorly. Because I think it's really cool despite the presence of the boiler room. I think it's really cool when she's sort of toggling in between. As Fred's coming down the the aisle and he's swiping in the dream and stuffs falling off the aisles shelves as he swiping. I feel like they really use the micro nap idea really effectively there to make a cool scene. Something we haven't seen before and A Nightmare on Elm Street film Rodney Tell me why I'm wrong.
Unknown Speaker  59:17   Because the scenes not really that good, because like, I like that she's attacked at the drugstore. But first of all, she knows she's being hunted by this like, vicious dream killer, but she keeps refusing any kind of drugs that will keep her awake, which is really weird. And then on top of that, he's like, I'm gonna go into the well lit drugstore. Do you want to come with me? She's like, now I'll just sit in the quiet dark car where I totally won't fall asleep. So it's already not making sense. But it also is when she gets attacked. Oh my god, how you know, like, it's the it's the way the editing is right? It's again, it's that opposite of being subtle. It's it's like cutting back and forth between the reality and the dream. Yeah, it's quality swipes and like knock some shit off the shelf. It's just like i don't know i think that i think the movie is so mediocre up to this point that you're just happy that Freddy Krueger slash nadder Are you
Unknown Speaker  1:00:10   saying me personally? Are you saying yes you know I honestly I honestly think there's some like clever filmmaking there I think it's a clever conceit it just i think it's it's got a level of ingenuity to it that I appreciate and so desperately craving in this movie.
Unknown Speaker  1:00:31   Well actually, I think I said to you when we were watching this I was like, Oh, I this is this is like the one thing that I remember from watching this before is because I remember the the scene I remember with the with the cigarette lighter in the car and everything. And I do also I have to tell you Rodney I was frustrated as hell the entire time with her not partaking in some sort of drugs of some sort. Because Yeah, thank you. Come on. Like Yeah, no that that was frustrating for me as well cuz I'm just like, I you know, I don't know what your deal is as to why you won't do this. And I trust me I get it. I come from a place of that as well. But we're dealing with Fred and micro naps. Well at least Nancy in the original she's like popping like no sleep or whatever like yeah
Unknown Speaker  1:01:17   oh don't know dose or whatever. All it's not on Naka. Nagas. Yes. Funny. Yeah, but I forget what it's called, like, no sleep or can't
Unknown Speaker  1:01:27   sleep. Yeah. Or something. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker  1:01:28   So yeah, she should least be doing like five hour energy drinks like crazy or whatever. Isn't that what the kids like to do? Get all hopped up on those, like snort Red Bull. Yeah, they should have done that.
Unknown Speaker  1:01:41   You forgot to mention important thing, which is that they tell you if you if you if you don't sleep for like 70 hours, you'll go into a coma that lasts forever. And then that's important later,
Unknown Speaker  1:01:52   I totally forgot that I that's one of those things that is just glossed over me even though I've seen this movie more times than any human being should be legally allowed to see it. But it does come back later. But I did not read forever register that they set that up in there. It's
Unknown Speaker  1:02:09   like when they're doing all their research, right? Okay, when they're using when they're using gigablast.
Unknown Speaker  1:02:14   I was just so hyped up on gigablast and micro naps that I just went right over my head.
Unknown Speaker  1:02:19   I kind of want to do like a comprehensive listing of fake search engines for movies and like what's the best what's the what's the champion? It might be gigabit and
Unknown Speaker  1:02:28   then start it like may do it as a start up and beat Google become masters of the universe.
Unknown Speaker  1:02:34   To be fair, I don't want to shit all over this drugstore scene. I'm going to go back after this and just rewatch that part because like maybe it's maybe I'm being a little harsh on it. You both seem pretty, pretty excited. And there are parts in the movie that are cool. Maybe this is one of them. So I'll I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here. Even though I watched it last night and can't remember it. I appreciate
Unknown Speaker  1:02:52   that you're giving this movie any props at all, because I expected this to be a bloodbath. Or now we're down to our final two Quinten and Nancy, she gets cut and they so they go to the hospital. And did you did you recognize the nurse from the hospital do Did either of you recognize who this is?
Unknown Speaker  1:03:10   I had that moment of like she looks familiar, but no idea. She
Unknown Speaker  1:03:13   is the actress who played the original April O'Neil in the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie that Oh, yeah, she was the original April how exciting. I wasn't, I wasn't a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles guy. But I did put those together. They go back to give Nancy pain meds because the mom signs as Connie Britton signs off on it. Right and let me ask you this, What is she saying? She's like signing her over to like a mental institution or something? Or is it just to give her pain meds?
Unknown Speaker  1:03:47   It didn't seem like that, because like, they kind of do like a long shot on the document that she's signing. And I was looking at it and I'm like, it just I don't know. I mean, if that's what they were implying is like we're going to let you commit her something right? It said, I hereby swear that I did not burn a man alive for molesting my daughter
Unknown Speaker  1:04:07   20 years ago.
Unknown Speaker  1:04:10   No, it is the top something like permission to administer medical care. Yeah, I assume it's basically like I hereby give permission for you to like forcibly inject my daughter with sleeping meds
Unknown Speaker  1:04:20   right which Why do we need to have a shot of the document there? It's so they put emphasis on the document which was strange because if that's all it is, then who cares? We don't need to see this document. But then we get the moment where former April O'Neil goes to injector and she lifts up her hand and knows she's got the Freddie claw. Which
Unknown Speaker  1:04:40   micro nap
Unknown Speaker  1:04:42   Yeah, we'll see good use of micro nap there. You don't get that without a micro nap. No serie Bob.
Unknown Speaker  1:04:49   Yeah, Quinten like, grab some adrenaline out of a drawer. And like, dude, I watched this movie like 24 hours ago, and I don't remember what happens. They like yeah, they run in the car. And he's like, no, they
Unknown Speaker  1:04:58   just didn't even show them right Now that just shows them in the car when they come back to the room Nancy's gone CUT TO they're in the car and Winton's busting out the adrenaline to shoot it up, right. Like we don't even know how they get out.
Unknown Speaker  1:05:09   It's one of those like, I don't worry about it. There's we just need to get to the next scene. They get away. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So he quit and juices up in the leg up. And of course, I mean, you guys picked up right? His name is Quentin Quentin Tarantino. Epic shot. I don't understand the reference. There's a director named Quentin Tarantino who directed some pretty famous films over the last 25 years or so. And one of them featured very prominently in adrenaline adrenaline shot sequence, you should check it out. It's called Pulp Fiction. It's pretty good.
Unknown Speaker  1:05:45   Oh, interesting. Oh, yeah. I'll put on the list. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker  1:05:47   Yeah, yeah. So Clinton shoots up in his leg. They have their sort of tender moment where they're driving to the abandoned preschool in Quint Nasser out on a real date. And I liked this line, she sort of puts him off and he says, Well, why don't you sleep on it? And I was like, Alright, clever writing there. But then Fred shows up because they micro nap, I guess for a second and then they drive off the road. They've got to walk the rest of the way to the school.
Unknown Speaker  1:06:17   How did Quinten micro nap after he just shot himself up with adrenaline? Like, yeah, that was my one thing was I was like, I mean, maybe he's just that tired. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to nitpick things. But I really, that was my honest thought was like, didn't he just take this adrenaline?
Unknown Speaker  1:06:34   Yeah, I'm gonna nitpick too, because the same thing happens when she burns herself with a lighter, like, your arm would hurt so bad that the whole point of doing it is so you can stay awake for like maybe 20 more minutes. So why go through all this? Like they get adrenaline in the injection his leg? If it doesn't have a purpose,
Unknown Speaker  1:06:49   fair enough. I think they're just trying to sort of set things up and then do reversals and then set things up. You know, I get it. It's definitely doesn't make total sense. But I also see they're trying to keep you engaged, like with things so but yeah, it doesn't really make sense. What also doesn't make sense is that this creepy fucking school is not been turned into like Kultury condos or something. It's still there. With the paint peeling off the wall and like creepy kid artwork all over the wall. You know, look, it's a horror movie. We need to have our climax take place in someplace creepy. You know, they set it up that this preschool was the place of you know, where all these terrible things happened, but it's sort of ridiculously art directed in that way that would never happen in real life. And then they find Fred's molesting cave, like they find his bedroom first, which still has his bed in it.
Unknown Speaker  1:07:48   Here's the thing that I don't understand, right? Because they make a big point about how they never went to the cops. And they just like, assumed he was molesting their kids. So the implication is that this place was closed down because you know of what Fred Krueger did. But from the perspective of reality, Fred Krueger just disappeared one day didn't come to work. So wouldn't have done the maintenance crew go downstairs and they like his like, his knife glove is still sitting on the table. Right? Right. It. It's literally like they're like, how can we run this place without good old Fred Krueger doing the lawn, close it down, just close it down? Shelly, they locked the front door and left,
Unknown Speaker  1:08:27   right, one of one of two things would have happened. One, people would have found out about these horrible things, and they would have torn the place down. or two, no one would have found out about these things. And they would have just kept the place running and turned his bedroom into another classroom or you know, it would still be a school. What wouldn't? It doesn't make sense that now it's the haunted town haunted house or whatever. It's not the Michael Meyers house, you know, I mean, it's like it shouldn't. That doesn't make sense. Because you're right, they don't go to the cops. So nobody should know that this was a horrible place.
Unknown Speaker  1:09:02   But I'll just assume that like they didn't pay their county taxes on time. And so the county just kicked them all out and chained it up.
Unknown Speaker  1:09:08   So they, they they find his bedroom, which still has his gross bed in it, which will actually come into play later. And then they find his creepy molesting cave, which is sort of another room in there. You know, and and just to put it out there, you know, we're making light a lot of this but we do are not making light of, you know, child abuse in any way. This is what makes the movie. I think, ultimately, no fun. I mean, I can deal with this in a horror movie context, if we're talking about something that's, you know, really hard and serious or whatever, but we're trying to have fun here with the thing about Freddy Krueger is that there's a fun element to him. And when you introduce this into it, like the fun is gone. Now he's just a disgusting creep, and I'm not on his side in any way, the way that you are with your favorite horror franchise characters where, you know, you secretly are on Jason's side and you're secretly with me at this point, you're just not on his side. And I think this is truly the tragic flaw of this film.
Unknown Speaker  1:10:16   I 100% had that same feeling and this is also your, your so you're possibly on his side, because only of what was mentioned earlier or alluded to that this was like, the kids had lied about it, right? Yeah. So then, like, at that point, you're like, fuck him up Friday. Like, you know, these kids lied like you were you were wrongly murdered by this mob. And then now, here's the like, the pitchers yuck, that are you know, he, he didn't do it. Like he's after them. Like the lion Clinton says, it's like, he's not after us. Because we lied. He's after us. Because we told the truth. And that just yeah, it's just that whatever you were hanging on to that this film was going somewhere, like, you just really feel like the wind just go right out of the sails. So it's like, and to make it even worse, Fred wants them to remember his abuse of them. Like that's specifically cited as his motivation that he wants him to remember. So it's sort of gross layer upon gross layer. So much gross. And just so like, just it's like there's nowhere to go. You can't go nowhere to go from here.
Unknown Speaker  1:11:32   A tiny detail earlier in that when you see the flashback of the Miss kids. There's like a shot of young Chris the blonde girl and you see that like her back has been like clawed and she's got scars on her back. So this this notion that like maybe they made it up is fucking nonsense cuz like she clearly came home with her back carved up, and you know, her dress torn up. So like, it's like the movies not even sure if it's trying to pull that joke on you or not. But Sebastian, you're totally right. I'm with Jason. I want to watch Jason murder a bunch of people, right? But like, it's hard to root for the dude that like raped a bunch of little kids. Like, that's messed up. And, and I'm a big fan of messed up content, like, give me the messed up stuff. But like, this movie just feels like it's going a little too far. And the fact that he keeps like bringing it up, it's just like, it makes it feel so icky. That you can no longer have fun. You're totally right.
Unknown Speaker  1:12:25   They have like a moment in one of the flashbacks where they show Jackie Earle Haley holding up gardener claw like that's where he got the idea to make the claw and I don't know or maybe he was climbing them with that not the knife hand but then they find the knife hand which is also not really set up in this movie. In the original movie. That's the weapon he used. And he right he put those in the furnace of the boiler room that he was burned in and they find you know, I think the mom still has them in the boiler room, their boiler at home or whatever so they really set up the knife hands whereas in this is Did he really have that knife hand glove in real life? Or is that just part of his dream persona and it was the gardening tool in real life? It's not made no
Unknown Speaker  1:13:21   because because when they go down into the basement Quinten and Rooney are sorry Nancy. On the on the table there's like one of the knife fingers as though he was like in the midst of assembling it like it was his life like he was like pretty soon my knife glove will be ready to go wherever those meddling at all.
Unknown Speaker  1:13:39   Right, so maybe he never got to finish his night knife glove project. And
Unknown Speaker  1:13:45   I think I think that's what it is.
Unknown Speaker  1:13:46   Okay, okay, well, that that tracks
Unknown Speaker  1:13:49   I think even in the original or I think it's the original though don't we actually see him making his
Unknown Speaker  1:13:54   glove? It's the opening looks like
Unknown Speaker  1:13:56   it's a whole thing. Yeah, that's what I remember with like the fire and he's like putting his glove together. Yes. So yeah, I see exactly. I mean, like there's so much care and detail going into like the glove history. Yeah. And the original that it's just to be so like brushed over now. And just yeah, it's it's it falls short to also mention more talking about the yuck going into once these Polaroids are found and that whole thing happens like the yuck gets dialed up so high, like all the up lines just start coming.
Unknown Speaker  1:14:30   Yeah, I emphasize that. It's hard to offend me. And this this scene really offended me like there's like multiple moments. I was like, that's gross like that. Take that out.
Unknown Speaker  1:14:40   Well, And to make matters worse, we go into the basic setup of the climax which is similar to the original, or Nancy, as you figured out earlier in the pharmacy. She pulled out a little piece of Fred's sweater, so she knows that she can bring some corporeal element of him out into reality. So she's going to go into sleep. Quentin is going to watch her. She's gonna grab Fred and pull him out. So she goes to his gross molester bed, goes to sleep. Quentin grabs a paper cutter blade off of an old paper cutter that's lying around to do some Fred killin. But of course, you know, it's stupid Clinton falls asleep. So we go into this big final dream sequence. We're both Nancy and Quentin are both sleeping. So they're sort of both dealing with the dream world. Quinn ends up in the boiler room that Fred never was burned alive in and he throws him around and he slashes them pretty bad in the chest. But then Nancy calls out and because Fred has kept telling her you have always been my favorite. You know, so he's really got a mad boner for so he goes chasing after and, you know, there's we get sort of a replay in some ways of the climax of the original film. At one point, she's in the original Nancy's running up the stairs and her feet sink into the stairs. And this time, she's running down a hallway and then she falls into like the rug and it's all bloody water, whatever.
Unknown Speaker  1:16:18   I like this part. Because Because Because he has one of the better lines here and he goes, how's that for a wet dream, right? And I was like, okay,
Unknown Speaker  1:16:26   that's one of the only lines that sound like an OTG Robert Anglin line, you know, that's something I could he would definitely have said. But so she falls into that falls into the water and falls through the floor and into her own bed at home. And now she's wearing the little girl out dress that she used to wear and this is where it really for me. This is where it gets really gross. No,
Unknown Speaker  1:16:54   I like the part where she falls through the ceiling too. It's a little CG. But this whole sequence with the bloody hallway while it's brief, I will give credit where credit's due I was like that part was well done.
Unknown Speaker  1:17:05   I also know I just was also I like the sequence with the hallway I like when she falls into her bed. I also appreciated that Quentin fashioned a weapon out of one of those giant paper cutters because those things have always anytime in an office or whatever. I'm like this thing is crazy. I'm just glad to see somebody using it as a weapon because it is and then totally like the Glenn before him. You know he did the Amash comes back again or you know that that'll happens. But I was here for all that it was fine. It was Nancy in the baby dress, where I just was like, I just can't, I can't and this is one more grow. Like, I actually took notes of the things because I was like, these are all so gross. Like, your mouth says no, but your body says yes. And I just wrote barf. Because it was just like, it's just so yuck. It's so yuck. And then he she, when she first runs into Friday, she says fuck you to him. And he says, that's a little fast for me. Why don't we just hang first and
Unknown Speaker  1:18:08   it's just like, and then he shows her bodies hanging on in the boiler room. That's just terrible. And I like it. And I like puns, you know, but this is just not it's not okay, none of this is okay. And he you know, he's running his one of his knife fingers like upwards skirt. And they it's it's really I won't say shocking, but it's it's surprising that this was a creative decision that they decided to go with because to rod knees point of director, whoever not really understanding the what people like about this series. You know, this is not what people like about the Nightmare on Elm Street series. This is not what they want to see Freddie doing.
Unknown Speaker  1:18:55   I think they really are just trying to be like, yo, let's like, we're gonna earn that our rating so hard, people are gonna love it. It just has aged really poorly. Also from like, I mean, this, why I brought up the coma thing is because the implication that he basically says here, right is like, I basically have kept you awake for all this time, specifically, so you would fall into a permanent coma. And I could just like, have you for eternity in your dream state? Yeah. Which is like, really creepy. But also, I have a I have a question I have to ask. That's a little icky. But like, if Fred Krueger is into kids, why is he into 18 year old Rooney Mara, right? Like, that doesn't really even make sense within the logic of the film.
Unknown Speaker  1:19:40   Yep. And that sort of occurred to me too, although I did, like I did. That was when he says that, about having her trapped there forever. That at least was a moment in the movie where I kind of got a little bit of like, Oh, you know, I mean, just because the idea I get sort of Things like that where I you know, concepts where people are going to be trapped like, find murder me stab me with a fucking machete cut off my head. It's all good. That's gonna be like two seconds and we're over but the idea of, you know keeping me in your dream world for forever and you know tormenting me is that that actually gives me kind of a bit of a chill. But yeah, it doesn't you're right it doesn't really track with the whole child molester idea that he be just as jazzed to do it to her now, I mean, they could have had her regress to a younger age in the dream like Why does she have to be that age and the dream but I I'm sure that was a bridge too far that they weren't even willing to go to go for
Unknown Speaker  1:20:47   even you hearing you describe it is making me uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. Like, well, there's maybe you should have directed there's no,
Unknown Speaker  1:20:54   there's just nowhere to go with that idea. Unfortunately, you know, I mean, I think they just they, it was a bad idea. They shouldn't have gone there at all.
Unknown Speaker  1:21:02   Like, I feel like if they thought that they were going to be edgy, or try to let you know, it's 2010 and we're just going to really, you know, earn their rating, like you said, or, you know, just try to have like a shock value. It just, it just came off dislike this. This this really poor taste like it just doesn't. It doesn't work. It doesn't work with what this film is.
Unknown Speaker  1:21:23   There's a little part of me that applauds them for trying to be gross. Yeah, they just fail at it.
Unknown Speaker  1:21:29   Yeah, it just doesn't work.
Unknown Speaker  1:21:30   I think that what they're what they misunderstand, and what a lot of people misunderstand about this slasher genre, especially when you're dealing with sort of supernatural characters, or supernatural adjacent characters like Freddy, Jason and Michael, is that it's more a fantasy thing in when you become a fan of these movies, you end up becoming a fan of the characters, even though they're reprehensible and horrible murderers. It's sort of similar to the way you feel about superheroes or you know, other fantasy characters. You don't want them to tethered due to the terrible horrible things that really happen in real life. It's fine for them to stab people and hack them apart. That's the craved part of us that is satisfied, but we don't want to see really horrible atrocities occur at the hands of these characters. They are in some weird way fantasy figures to us and we don't want to see that.
Unknown Speaker  1:22:34   Well said you some that are very well
Unknown Speaker  1:22:37   basically, you know, Nancy stabs Fred and then I with something but you know, he can't die in this world. If we do get the line. I'm, I'm your boyfriend now. Which you know, of course is a call back to the original question tries to wake her up, she won't wake up. So we get this scene where he shoots her in the heart with the adrenaline calling back to pulp fiction. This wakes her up and she drags Fred into reality. You know, they fight in reality, which is you know, pretty satisfying. At that point. She cuts off his hand with the paper cutter blade, and then slashes his throat and she says you're in my world now bitch. Which decent line I feel like that might have been said in one of the other movies but I'm not sure one of the other nightmare movies but I'm not sure yeah and that's basically it they burn the the creepy school and
Unknown Speaker  1:23:37   again Yeah,
Unknown Speaker  1:23:39   like learn from your fucking past. Also, why like they now have proof of like the burned dream killer that they fought in recount reality. Why don't they like take pictures call the cops be like, Look, we found Fred Krueger. Right? Like, it would help explain anything that they might need to explain right in case they're gonna be accused of murder. But they're like not let's just burn it all
Unknown Speaker  1:24:02   will not only So wait, so his body is still there right after they kill him.
Unknown Speaker  1:24:07   Yeah, she like cuts. She slashes his neck up and he like bleeds to death. And he's just dead body on the floor.
Unknown Speaker  1:24:13   Right. So like for the sequel? They should have not burned down the building. They should have called the police. They should have explained to them. Look, this is a guy that's been dead for. I don't know how many years? Like 15 years right? I guess there'd be no way to way to prove that because they never I guess found his body to begin with.
Unknown Speaker  1:24:33   They could do like carbon dating, I guess.
Unknown Speaker  1:24:35   But then you could do a whole sequel where like now we're dealing with a reality where you can like pull people out of dreams. Like what does that mean? Then you've got your dream warriors and all that. So yeah, missed opportunity there. But uh, so yeah, that's basically it until we get our Stinger seen where Nancy and mom returned home. And there's a mirror and Freddie's in the mirror. In the mirror, and he throws his claws out of the mirror and and they go right through mom's the back of mom's head out the front of her face. And her her eyeballs are on the tips of his fingers and it's really dumb. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker  1:25:16   it's literally just like the movie ends with a sign that says fuck you go home. Like, so. It's so like, to be fair, I think most nightmare I know she'd films and with like, this ridiculous Stinger that sort of like non canon,
Unknown Speaker  1:25:29   you know, a first movie has a terrible one. It's terrible. Yeah. So I mean, it's no worse than that. If we're being brutally honest.
Unknown Speaker  1:25:39   The first one is now the one where she gets like, sucked through the door. No, that's when she gets in a car.
Unknown Speaker  1:25:43   Yes, yeah. Oh, right. Mom does
Unknown Speaker  1:25:46   right. She gets in the car. The car like is a convertible that closes up
Unknown Speaker  1:25:50   with that has dried in there. It's got Freddie's sweater painted on it basically, on right comfortable roof.
Unknown Speaker  1:25:57   And then mom gets sucked through the What do you call it like the people
Unknown Speaker  1:26:01   know, it's like the, it's like glam. And
Unknown Speaker  1:26:05   it's a fancy name. I don't know, the glass above the door. That's like super small. So it's like, it's not for a person to be pulled through.
Unknown Speaker  1:26:13   Yeah, she suddenly becomes like an inflatable sex doll. And then,
Unknown Speaker  1:26:17   yeah, yanked through the tiny window in the door. So it's not like they had a lot to live up to here, because that's pretty terrible. But this is terrible, too. And then we get dream by the Everly Brothers or whatever, for the end credits. And that's basically the Nightmare on Elm Street remake. So let's move on to closing thoughts. Let's start with the positives. I'm going to say that I think this movie looks decent. It's decently you know, the production values are good. We forgot to mention the scene where Chris is in the classroom. And she has her dream. It's mirroring a scene from the original, which is done more gritty and better. But you know, there's suddenly she's in this dolt, you know, dilapidated, post apocalyptic classroom. And that's when we first get a good look at Fred at the chalkboard, there are some moments of nice computer generated imagery, that sort of hint at the potential of what a movie like this could be. Just in terms of production, design and production values, I think it's fine. Although I do agree that none of the dream sequences are as good as they could be. I think the actors overall were good. I think the film looks good. There's, you know, it doesn't look like it was, you know, poorly made. I don't mind the callbacks to the original. I mean, they're, they're, you know, beat for beat there at some spots. But you know, it's, it's fine. It's a remake. It's not, I'm not upset about it. But that's, that's what they're doing. You know, that those are, those are the positives, there's the scenes that stood out, like the pharmacy scene. I do like the scene that you just mentioned, as well with when she's learning about Sparta and and in the classroom, and we get to see Fred for the first time and his fingers on the chalkboard and all that stuff. Yeah, I mean, I'll go into what I didn't like, but there definitely are things that I like about it,
Unknown Speaker  1:28:23   you know, I think it's a case of liking by default. Right? It there's nothing in this movie that I will like want to show to somebody and say you've got to see this scene or this moment or this shot, because there's nothing in the movie that rises to excellence. Right However, there are there are things that are not bad or need to be shit upon like it is shot very professionally, this is clearly a they had a budget they had a good dp. The director has a pretty good eye, I would say half of the movie, there's some good stylish shit like some of the boiler room sequences the way the framing in the framing is done. I thought the the partner she's in the bloody body bag look great. Some of the kills wealth too fast, are very gory and violent. And I applaud that because that's sort of the reason you come to these movies. Right? And, and again, there were a couple one liners that I liked and, and having Clancy Brown in your movie is a plus for me every time I've he literally can't be in a bad Well, he can be in a bad movie, but he's never bad. So I think on my second viewing this time, it was a lot less offensive than I remembered it being I can I can say that, you know, but again, I don't think there's anything about this movie except maybe the part of the dude cuts his throat at the beginning that I thought was truly badass.
Unknown Speaker  1:29:41   What do you think went wrong here? creatively, I feel like I've sort of my main gripes with it creatively or the decision to back out of the idea that Fred is after them out of revenge because they lied. And then to go full child molester like, you know Go full child molester.
Unknown Speaker  1:30:01   I was thinking about was watching the movie. And I kept thinking I was trying to put my finger on. Why is this movie bad? And part of it falls under the category of like, just it's so bland. It's forgettable, right? But I, I now know what the problem is. And the problem is, in all the other Nightmare on Elm Street films, the dream sequences are these set pieces to themselves. They're like little short films, right? That you look forward to? Yeah, it's like, oh, you realize that person is dreaming. Some dread comes, Brady gets them turns into a fucking worm, or he like turns into a TV set. You know, like, the turns the one dude into a puppet with like, you know, the veins and shit. And that's why you come to the movie. But this version does away with that, because of the micro naps. It says we're not doing dream sequences. We're just here to have like, a scary guy with knives jump out of shadows. And so you are actually undoing the very thing that everybody wants. Right? Like, that's, that's all you actually want out of a Freddy Krueger movie. I don't care about his backstory, I don't even care about him killing people with the glove. I'd rather he doesn't kill anyone with the glove. And in this movie, it's the only way he kills anyone. And I think that's the biggest sin the movie makes is that it it takes the premise of a man who gets you in your dreams, and basically just turns him into a dude who stabs you with his hand in your dreams. Like, that's lame, guys. It's lame. What is our argue, I think in arguably the greatest horror movie killer premise of all time that a guy kills you in your dreams because that you can't not sleep. So there's, I mean, there I don't think there's ever been a better initial premise of a slasher movie. And I and I agree, I will maybe back down from the defense of the micro naps, just because you make a good point there. I think if they had done new dream sequences, and done the micro naps, I think there could have been something at least to make this stand out and be a little more memorable. Yeah. And, and again, I acknowledge, I acknowledge what you're saying that they put the micro naps in to try to up the ante and make it be like, Oh, he can come anytime I get that I just, I just think that they it's a missed opportunity. You know, like, you're gonna have a whole sequence in a swimming pool where the kid falls asleep. Let's make it a big sequence, you know, like really bad at it. But instead, it's over like that all the dream sequences start and then the person wakes up or they get killed. I understand that you want to recreate the first movie, but like, you're you're totally right, there is no better idea for a slasher film. Like, sooner or later, you're gonna fall asleep. And this guy is going to get you and going all the way back to the beginning this conversation when I said that all of the Freddy movies are like, up and down. And some of them are really bad, and some are really good. They all have really great death sequences. That's the thing. Even the worst of the movies have these nightmare scenes that you're like, Oh, that's twisted, you know? Yeah. And, and this movie is just like, I don't care about that part. I care more about telling you the backstory of how maybe this guy was a pedophile. But wink wink, he was so big shocker. Like, like, whether he's whether he was a pedophile or not. He's still murdering people from the beginning of this movie. So he's clearly the bad guy. So why are we making a mystery movie out of it? You
Unknown Speaker  1:33:30   know, if they announced, which I imagine one day they will, that they are going to try this again. I'm sure it won't be with Jackie Earle Haley or anything like that. Or Platinum dunes if they even exist anymore. Would you be interested in seeing it, Jennifer? Absolutely. Always. Neil got a hope for the best expect the worst and hope for the best. That's that's how I roll So yeah, I would totally go see reboot of this again in the theater. Absolutely. Give it a shot now. Just when they announced this movie, apparently he did. Screen tests with Kevin Bacon as Freddy Krueger before Jackie Earle Haley, which I actually think could work in a weird way at least Kevin Bacon has the sort of build and you know he's lanky and and you could do cool stuff with his makeup in his face. I also remember people banding around the name of Ben Foster, from you know, six feet under and he's actually in 30 days of night and stuff. I think he could have been he could be a good he's got a good creepy vibe. I think he could be a good Freddy Krueger. Rodney, would you be up for another attempt at this? Are you just gonna dig in your heels and say don't ever try to do this again?
Unknown Speaker  1:34:53   No as a like, Look, I I'm a horror fan. I I go see everything right like always Honestly, I have no idea why these large franchises don't just make make a new one every year. Like if I ran the studio, every fucking Halloween, maybe every 18 months, you would have a new fresh Nightmare on Elm Street film and a new fray a 13th. at like, like saw did it for like eight years in a row. Right? And like, Dude, it's not that hard. Like, I promise I'll come up, I'll come to your mediocre dream killer movie every fucking Halloween. Why is it take so long? Yeah, I'd like it to be a little better. But yeah, I will go to the next 10 remakes of this film franchise. I was
Unknown Speaker  1:35:34   just gonna say it is utterly baffling that they can't get these things. I mean, I think a lot in the case of the Friday the 13th series, it's because there's some sort of rights issues like going on. That's fair. I mean, that one's a no brainer. I put a guy in a hockey mask. I mean, what is the big deal?
Unknown Speaker  1:35:55   Three of us. If the three of us were arguing over the money, I'd be like, Look, guys, can we disagree every year that we argue we're not making any so how about we just split it three ways, right? We make we make one every year. Let's just churn them out. They act like everyone doesn't like Freddy Krueger, because they had a bad Critical response to this movie. Right? And it's like, No, we didn't like your movie. Try again. Do it again. Right? Yeah, you can start over be like Spider Man. Just keep starting over until you get it right again. Right. However I disagree with I read some articles about Kevin Bacon being interested in the role. And I gotta tell you, I think the misconception is that everyone thinks of Robert England is Freddy Krueger, but he became famous because of the role. Right? He wasn't a famous actor. And I think the minute you put a famous actor in the role of Freddy Krueger, the audience can't stop looking at him as the actor I kept seeing Jackie Earle Haley, just finally someone I don't know and make that the new Freddy Krueger and fill the rest of the cast with famous people.
Unknown Speaker  1:36:56   I think there's a sort of middle ground where you could get a character actor, somebody like Ben Foster, who most people don't really know who he is. I mean, Robert England was a character actor, he would been in other movies. It's not known. I mean, he's in, you know, a galaxy of terror and all sorts of stuff before he became Freddy Krueger. So I mean, I think Will anybody ever live up to Robert England? Probably not.
Unknown Speaker  1:37:21   That that's, that's the problem. It's it. They're, they're such big boots to fill, you know. And it's impossible to play that role without inviting everyone to compare you to Robert England.
Unknown Speaker  1:37:33   But but it I mean, I think it with the right person, it can be done where you can have, you know, both versions, both actors, you know, living in a world where you you can just enjoy both of them. Like I feel that way about having Bill skarsgard play Pennywise you know, it's like, first new Penny wises Tim Curry through the miniseries. And that's who just how I pictured him. And then here comes Bill skarsgard. And I'm like, I love him. And I think he also, you know, at least at that time, was probably toeing that line of not being, you know, super well known, but had done some notable things. And so he was able to slide into that and do his own take on it. And I am now you know, I like both versions. So I think it can be done. I think that that comparison is pretty good. But I also feel that, you know, there was only one attempted it before they made another one. Even though people were kind of hung up on Tim Curry's version. It wasn't like Nightmare on Elm Street where we got you know, six or seven whatever movies with one guy I think it's you know, the more more movies you make with one person, the harder it is for people to shake that I think people of our generation will never get over Robert England, I don't think there will there will ever be a version that will be able to compete with him. But I think it's such a strong idea that the temptation to not reenter introduce this character to a new generation is, you know, it's way too too much. You know, they're going to try it again. Because it's just such a good idea. And you know, I know those movies still exist and and young people can go and find them and watch them but like, Come on, let's let's be real. They don't want to do that.
Unknown Speaker  1:39:26   So there's money to be made in them Freddie and that Freddy sweater. That's basically what I'm saying.
Unknown Speaker  1:39:32   Yeah, I I'll back down on this, they easily could find a more well known actor who still just does a different version. I think you got to just get away from the Freddy Krueger. I'm so used to like I remember thinking, Heath Ledger was the worst idea ever to play.
Unknown Speaker  1:39:47   Oh, I did too. I was like, What?
Unknown Speaker  1:39:49   Really? Yep. And then we all saw the movie and we all went I apologize. I'm really sorry. You You're amazing. So I genuinely think someone out that maybe it is kevin bacon bacon. Maybe it is better. Foster well I guess we'll find out one day because they're gonna make another one that there's no way they just leave this where they left it.
Unknown Speaker  1:40:07   Well let's hope they do a better job but anyway thank you guys for being on this episode and I want to wish you both the sweetest of dreams.
Unknown Speaker  1:40:27   That about does it today for Tentpole Trauma. If you like what you heard, check out our social media presence on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Just look for Tentpole Trauma. That was easy, wasn't it? If you like us, hit subscribe, and leave us a sterling review on iTunes. If you dare. If you really like us, head over to patreon.com and get involved in one of our fabulous tears. You'll be glad you did. Want to communicate with Tentpole Trauma, send an email to Tentpole [email protected] we'd love to hear from you. And who knows, one day you may even get your email read on one of our shows.
Unknown Speaker  1:41:15   Thanks for listening, and we'll see you real soon.
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coredrill · 4 years
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alright, here are my thoughts on the unstoppable wasp novel! i’ve put the majority of my thoughts, and LOTS of spoilers, below the cut. short summary is that . . . i didn’t really like it at all :/
so, i’m gonna preface this by saying that i wanted to absolutely LOVE this book. it’s all about nadia and she is one of my all-time favorite characters and it’s so great that she got the spotlight in this way! i just really really wish i could, in good faith, say that the book was good, but i just can’t. and admittedly, i consider the unstoppable wasp comics to be nearly perfect, which is a high bar to hit, but there was just so much about this book that left a bad taste in my mouth.
first thing i want to mention is the role of the rest of the g.i.r.l.s. and when i say that, i mean that they had virtually no role. i genuinely wasn’t sure if i (the reader) was expected to have read the comics before the novel. on one hand, the first few chapters were spent pretty much summing up the comics, which is fine, especially because some readers may not have read the comics. on the other hand, if i hadn’t read the comics, there’s NO WAY i would’ve known anything about the other g.i.r.l.s!! they’re barely present in the plot of the book! they are present in one scene in the beginning, taina has a few lines throughout, and they’re more involved at the end, but a lot of the times they seemed more like wallpaper than actual characters. especially because of the frequency with which the author would throw in lines such as “that ethiopian place that shay likes” or “priya’s on-trend jeans” and just name-drop them without really giving them any substance. since i know the comics, i already know these characters--but if i was just reading the novel with no background? there’s no way i’d be able to keep them straight.
building off of what i said in that last point, i also wanted to mention that i listened to the women of marvel podcast interview with the author. something that i noticed is that she would always refer to the g.i.r.l.s as the “g.i.r.l. squad.” and that, i think, is the root of why i didn’t like how they were handled. it’s obviously pretty simple to explain their absence in the story by just noting that the whole point was that nadia was feeling alone and isolated from them. HOWEVER, in my opinion as a woman who has been in engineering . . . that doesn’t happen? nadia and the g.i.r.l.s are labmates--it’s right there in the title. they ARE the genius in action research labs. the “lab” isn’t just the location, it’s the people who make it up. by referring to them as “g.i.r.l. squad” instead of just “g.i.r.l.,” the author is changing the dynamics from “being a cohesive unit of girls who make up this incredible group and support each other in their science and goals” to “friend group who all happen to do science.” and as i mentioned, the random falling-out that happens in the book doesn’t happen to groups of the first type. being a girl in stem SUCKS. being in a stem class means that you’re automatically friends with the 1-2 other girls in there with you. and the people you work on projects with in a lab? the other girls who take the time to support you and have your back even though the odds are stacked against you? those are a whole different kind of friendships and i PROMISE they’re not wrecked by just forgetting to talk to each other. the girls that i worked with in college--the girls that i worked with now--it’s for survival. you don’t just fall apart like nadia apparently did from the g.i.r.l.s in this book.
okay. final bullet point on this topic. but in the women of marvel interview, the author said that she wanted to explore what could break apart the bonds that the g.i.r.l.s had formed. but on page 263, there’s the line “and if they had all just been a little better at communicating, maybe it wouldn’t have been so long before one of them realized that nadia was relying a little too closely on that little gold device.” so this deep dive into splitting the g.i.r.l.s apart, and barely giving shay, taina, ying, and priya a role in the story--was caused by MISCOMMUNICATION??? no freaking thanks LMAO. even without everything i’ve already mentioned, that trope is so lazy.
the writing style kinda bothered me at some points--i remember the discharge being described as “carbon dioxide” at one point, but like, just call it white foam. it’s so much easier and saying carbon dioxide pulled me out of what was happening. obviously this is a personal thing, not something objectively bad, but i still thought i’d mention it.
there seemed to be this point, around page 260, where it seems like the book flipped a switch. obviously, this is where the climax hit, but so many other things seemed to just randomly get pushed into place because the plot necessitated it? like, for example, nadia and the g.i.r.l.s are suddenly bffs again. even though, in nadia’s interior monologue, we’ve been hearing her resentment for them, it seemed like once the plot needed them to work together that they were able to do so without problem. and not only that, but it didn’t even feel earned? the book NEVER showed nadia and the g.i.r.l.s as actually like. being friends. (as i mentioned, not a choice i agree with, but still a fact.) so to have them all suddenly team up for the Big Boss Battle just felt weird and disengenuous to all of them. additionally, nadia went from defending margaret at all costs to suddenly thinking “oh yeah, she’s probably super evil. no big deal.” like WHAT??? the whole point of the first 250 pages was to show that nadia feels like margaret is the only person she can trust. all of a sudden she’s cool with her being evil??? make it make sense! you could see throughout the rest of the book that nadia was building up her Wrong Thoughts. sooooo much time was spent on it and we actually saw the development of how nadia felt. but to have her switch all that on a dime so that she can have her Right Thoughts now??? just in time for the Boss Battle? it just feels so unearned, since there’s nothing building to it. she just . . . changes her mind.
i also feel like writing a book where the protagonist, where the person whose perspective we’re following, is being MIND-CONTROLLED, but not revealing that mind control until the 11th hour (to validate the sudden switch from Wrong Thoughts to Right Thoughts) was just. a bit weird. i’m 22, but if i was reading this as a teenager, i’m not sure i would’ve quite gotten that the WHOLE BOOK was now being told by an unreliable narrator, with absolutely zero reliable information as a base (except the comics, of course).
ON PAGE 274. THERE IS ONE MENTION OF SHAY MAKING HER TELEPORTER PORTABLE. THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE FEAT OF SCIENCE AND SO GREAT FOR SHAY WHY WAS THIS NOT EXPANDED ON IN THE SLIGHTEST????
alright, time to talk about the nadia-being-ace thing. so, ever since i started reading unstoppable wasp, i’ve interpreted nadia as aroace. her version of friendships, her attempts to change the topic when romance for herself is brought up--these are all very authentically ace experiences. and that was okay for me to just have her coded that way! the writer of the comics, jeremy whitley, has included TWO (2!!!) ace characters in his raven pirate princess series so i definitely allowed myself to entertain the idea that the ace aspects of nadia were intentional. i was also okay with it not being explicitly mentioned in the comics--sure it would’ve been cool, but i understand that there are 18 issues TOTAL and it would be hard to fit the entirety of nadia’s story in there. BUT, when the author of this book mentioned that nadia was ace, and jeremy whitley confirmed that he’d been writing her as ace, it was awesome and super validating!! first of all, nadia being the first canonically ace marvel character--even just by word of god--is so freaking incredible and just adds to my enjoyment of the story. i’m very glad that we got confirmation and that i can continue reading the comics knowing, at the very least, that my ace reading of them is backed up by the canon (!!!!!). however, the author of this novel 100% used it as a marketing tactic which is super shitty. i was obviously going to read it anyway, since it was about nadia, but i do know people who bought it specifically because the author mentioned nadia being ace. and there was maybe one throwaway line in the novel about how nadia was only interested in romance ~theoretically.~ that’s not rep. in fact, it’s even less rep than the comics, which represented nadia being ace (at least in my opinion) far more authentically than this novel did. i’d honestly even go so far as to say it was riiiight up against the line of queerbaiting--yes nadia is canonically queer, but only by word of mouth, and it’s not mentioned even once in the story. that’s bad. using ace people for marketing--baiting them into buying your book on the promise of rep which we already have so little of--is so so shitty. yes, i am glad that we got that confirmation from jeremy whitley who never used this to promote the comics and didn’t even mention it until now, but i genuinely cannot believe that this author (who is bi! i checked her twitter!) effectively used it to market her awful book. honestly if the book weren’t bad enough already, to add this on top of it is even WORSE.
in the same vein, the author mentioned ying and shay being in a wlw relationship in the same interview where she mentioned nadia being ace. ying and shay are barely in the novel and EVEN WORSE, their relationship is kind of treated as an “obstacle” that nadia and the other g.i.r.l.s have to overcome in order to start working as a unit again. also bad!!!!!
okay. i think i’ve got this and one more bullet point, so we’ll see how it goes. but the way that the science in this book was handled was atrocious. sure, we had the cute science facts, but there is one (1) paragraph on page 311 about the g.i.r.l.s doing science for the sake of doing science and helping their community. IN THE WHOLE BOOK. you know a great way to demonstrate to women that they shouldn’t go into stem fields? write a cautionary book about the ~dangers of ai and data collection~ AS IF ANYONE LIVING IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW DOESN’T KNOW THAT SHIT. jesus fucking christ. the comics showed all of this great science by the way of the g.i.r.l.s papers, shay making her teleporter at home, defusing the bomb in ying’s head, recreating the vision gloves, tai’s sports robots . . . this book had NONE of that. it literally just had the evils that we see in the news EVERY DAY. that’s not what you show people to get them excited, and i find it really fucking weird that ANYONE greenlit a book about characters who support and encourage women to go into stem fields with the overall message of “science bad!” like. how the fuck was this plot approved. in the women of marvel interview, the author claims that she’s written about women in science before--and i believe her. i just don’t think that she’s ever actually spoken to a woman in science.
and lastly, i have a huge issue with the role of hope in the book. by that, i mean that the novel is called “built on hope” but hope is literally never a theme throughout the book? so yet another instance of the book building off the comics without any form of payoff. the unstoppable wasp comics are kind, and loving, and hopeful. this book is callous and condescending and seems more concerned with its sassy one-liners about white dudes and ham-fisted pop culture references than LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE, including hope. nadia claims to love her friends but spends the majority of the book shitting on them. nadia lies to janet to “avoid hurting her” but the end of unstoppable wasp 10 showed the flip side of the situation where nadia and jan realize that although janet was hiding the truth about hank from nadia, nadia wanted to hear the information anyway!! and i just--WHY would you take a character who has been explicitly used in the past to introduce girls to women in stem (the interviews with real people in the back of the comics!) AND THEN WRITE HER INTO A FUCKING CAUTIONARY “TECHNOLOGY BAD” STORY??? it’s SO discordant with the comics and i genuinely hope that anyone reading this book goes and read the comics themselves, which are incredible and a bajillion times better than this book in all aspects. i’m finishing this “review” a lot more fired up then when i started typing it but i honestly can’t believe that marvel greenlit THIS and not like. 2 more comics.
so, yeah, those are my thoughts. kudos to anyone who actually made it through the whole thing (if anyone does), it’s egregiously long but i needed to put my thoughts somewhere! tldr: i will not be recommending this to my mom.
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