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Can we talk about once again...

… how some key “DE” moments are actually about SE or rooted in SE?

Like, the tomb scene. Damon may leave because Elena pleads with him to go

but Elena pleads with Damon because she knows Stefan won’t leave without him

and she wants Stefan back out safely

it’s rooted in how worried she is about Stefan, if it was about Damon then consider that Stefan didn’t need to be potentially stuck in the tomb with him, he could’ve been there by himself and Elena could’ve run in to save him with her “Damon, please!” Stefan was in there to make the stakes much higher for her.

In 1x22, Damon has that whole ‘you believed in me’ speech meant to indicate the reforming power of love I guess

but what happened was Bonnie saw that Stefan couldn’t let Damon die

saw how much Elena loves Stefan

and tells Stefan specifically that because of that love, she couldn’t let Stefan or Damon die and the Damon part is only necessary because Stefan wouldn’t leave without Damon and Elena wouldn’t leave without Stefan

which is very much like how in 1x19 Elena won’t leave Stefan alone

so Damon decides to stay with her to keep her company, when the root of that is how much Elena can’t bear to leave Stefan alone

and I’ve spoken about the compulsion scene

it’s underrated that Elena’s worry over Stefan was so powerful in 5x02 that it triggered an anger intense enough that she was about to kill herself, Damon and everyone in that building

Like I always said, people focus on Elena stabbing herself instead of stabbing Damon as a testament to how much she loves him

but she wouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place if the idea of Stefan suffering didn’t trigger such rage   because like she gets angry about Bonnie

and Damon is like

but it isn’t until this

that the trigger compels action

I’ve spoken about the necklace

I really need people to think about that because I mention it all the time but I don’t think people quite grasp that Elena essentially said that she loved Damon in that moment because he put aside his love for her to give her an object that symbolized her love for Stefan and she says that is the most selfless thing he’s ever done (not compelling away Jeremy’s memories). She loved him for realizing how much she was in love with Stefan. Like think about that! That screams Damon being the third point of the triangle because it’s only when he can appreciate the SE bond that Elena can be like oh true, I love you in this moment? […]

let me reiterate something about that retcon, Elena doesn’t reference that Damon gave the necklace back/didn’t compel Elena in 1x09 because he “wanted it to be real” or that he told her he loved her in 2x09 and compelled away her memory (since it’s framed as sweet even though it isn’t) and returned the necklace to her so she wouldn’t remember even though it was killing him inside or some bullshit like that, it’s because he knew what it meant to her and Stefan

and I’ve also spoken about how Damon and Elena don’t actually speak much in season 1 and when they do it mostly revolves around Stefan but there’s also this scene in 4x05

because she did this

except Stefan was the one who taught her those moves, he wanted her to be a capable vampire

but anyway.

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Oh, you can like, erase that part, right? THEA MAYS ♡ All American: Homecoming

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Remember when Elena asked Stefan to let go of the girl that died under the bridge and accept who she is now? Then proceeding to say he looks at her like a broken toy that needs to be fixed? And then the very next episode casually commits genocide to get her hands on the cure? Like, she expects someone that loves her deeply to accept her as she is now when she can't even accept that girl herself? Yeah, s4 Elena just aggravates me to no end. The writers did her so dirty.

Well like I’ve mentioned in a lot of my posts, the writers really flubbed that storyline because Elena never showed any indication that she wanted vampirism and although Stefan was searching for a cure, he never told her that was what he was doing and he not only taught her the basics of vampirism, he celebrated it with her and this is where details come into play because Stefan says this

but there’s nothing to show that he’s been holding her back and this is where a callback to season 3 would’ve been useful. Because if the whole point is that he can’t teach her the joys of vampirism because it’s been such a burden to him and he’s making her feel even more depressed about the process then there should be actual obstacles that show this. Like he shouldn’t even be thinking about making her vampirism enjoyable

He should virtually be treating it like a sickness that needs to be treated.

There should also be moments where he can’t be around human blood just yet but he can:

because the latter half of season 3 is about him mastering his bloodlust

and like I’ve always said, Elena should’ve actually changed, she should’ve been curious about feeding, curious about her instincts and wanting to follow them but Stefan tells her to repress it and stamp it down whereas Damon tells her to unleash that and despite what antis say, the show doesn’t do what they think it did, which is have Damon show her that vampirism can be enjoyable even when she thought it couldn’t because a) like I’ve already mentioned, Stefan showed her the perks of vampirism b) Stefan doesn’t judge her instincts — how could he when they’re his instincts too?

Like Damon isn’t the only one who says this:

Damon doesn’t actually do anything for her. DE fans get so caught up in this scene

but Stefan taught her how to do that

he taught her how to use her speed

he taught her how to manage her emotions

while also reminding her of the repercussions of her new heightened existence

which proves to be right

the only thing Damon ever did was take her to a party to feed on vulnerable college girls

and the only reason why he has that in with Elena is because he told her she had to feed from humans and therefore created her problems and then solved them.

The show did not know what it was doing in season 4

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Something I can’t believe I haven’t spoken about

Elena being the one to say “I love you” first because we find out that Stefan is in love with Elena two episodes earlier in 1x08

but he hasn’t told her yet. And I find it important and interesting because a criticism I’ve argued against over the years is the [false and lazy] assertion that Stefan is manipulative when it comes to Elena

and it always makes me roll my eyes especially because the whole point is that he wants it to be her choice to be with him

that’s why we have the scenes with the necklace

that’s why he has that reaction in 1x07:

[…] elena broke up with stefan the episode before she made her boundaries perfectly clear:

and then now, she seems to be doubling down on not wanting to be with him and he accepts it

and then she says this

and his impulse is to go to her, to touch her, to talk about what she just said, but he restrains himself from doing any of these things and yet instinctively moves toward her like those words are pulling to him?

that’s why the scene at Caroline’s party plays out the way it does

when she says she’s not going to the party, he just tells her to have a good night and when she does show up

he doesn’t approach her even after Lexi spoke to her, he doesn’t crowd her or pressure her,

she comes to him when she’s ready

and that’s also why he doesn’t tell her he loves her because he doesn’t think it would be fair to her to tell her this when she asked for space. He doesn’t want to confuse her and he doesn’t want to spring anything on her and he’s also trying to protect her from the supernatural

he doesn’t want his love for her to suck her into a world she isn’t ready for and that’s why when she says this

he can walk away

when she says this

he can ignore it

but when she says this

when she says she loves him on her own even when he’s trying to push her away, even when he hasn’t said it back, even with the necklace on, even after everything she’s seen, when she makes it clear he’s her choice,

how can he resist? 

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It’s funny you stelenas cling to that one line Elena stated about Stefan being good in bed when there’s no evidence to suggest that she literally said it with no humanity she was just trying to manipulate him that’s all

1. When she looks like this

and they sound like this

(now, before you get excited and go THAT’S STEFERINE, the stelena scene is at the end)

that is what we call evidence to support the dialogue

2. What is the context of the scene in question?

That is not manipulating someone, if anything she’s using the truth to needle at him, like here’s all our history, here’s everything we mean to each other that I still remember but I look at it without any emotional attachment while you still clearly have feelings about it and that means nothing to me, must suck, dude.

Manipulating someone, playing to what they want to hear,

 want to have

she even starts touching him here

-- which is a trick she would do as a human too but anyway ---

for your own gain is this

which is what was always interesting about SE during Elena’s No Humanity -- I’m not talking to you anymore, I’m talking to my followers -- which I’ve spoken about before

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I get the intention of making the strongest ship in the entire AAU relationship the cliffhanger but like anybody believing them breaking up was a mistake they are paying for right now because nobody believed that shit and now there’s no fucking cliffhanger. They have the strongest love. They’re both obsessed with each other. You can’t just show them in the same episode have their biggest fight ever and still not be able to stay away from each other and make people believe the same day they will? Olivia was literally in the car listening to Spencer’s game and running in because she still couldn’t not support Spencer no matter how mad she was at him just like Spencer will obviously support Olivia no matter if it inconveniences his career because that’s what the fuck they do. That’s what they’ve been doing all of 4B, Olivia showing up for Spencer no matter what and Spencer supporting Olivia no matter what. They basically showed the exact same situation as the cliffhanger all of 4B so why would it matter now? If Garrett is a bad person, Spencer won’t be like well, leave him alone, Olivia! Because that’s literally not Spencer so where’s the chance of that happening? Nowhere. Dumb ass cliffhanger.

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so i saw this tweet: question for se moots: do yall think stefan pictured elena as this innocent damsel in distress in his head and wanted her to be like that for him? i dont believe it i just need some opinions

i laughed, and wanted to share because i always find misinterpretations of stefan within SE especially funny? i know you(and we) talk about it often enough (your masterlist post where an anon said “stefan idealised elena as everything he wanted to be” or whatever still cracks me up) but i find it especially funny how there’s still a popular idea(even questioned by SErs) of stefan seeing some pure or idealised elena, a damsel… because not only is it the opposite, but the IRONY when juxtaposed with who and which relationship actually sees, treats, and makes elena into what could be considered a “damsel in distress”? like LOL it’s all there just *watch* the canon.

a) thank you for mentioning the masterlist and that i've spoken about this many times over the past seven years before speaking about the ask. i’m good with rehashing when people know it’s rehashing.

b) honestly, i've always found that the SE fandom could have more confidence in their ship, like i feel like the fandom is easily rattled by easily refutable comments.

c) people mistake Stefan not wanting Elena to fight

with wanting her to be a damsel and that's super annoying because he didn't want her to be helpless so he could rescue her, he wanted her to not be in a position where she's attacked every other day.

The fact that Stefan doesn’t try to override her choices and that they make them together

the fact that the two of them work together to uncover the supernatural shenanigans

 the fact that Stefan helps Elena facilitate risky manoeuvres

but makes sure to be there for support 

the fact that Elena has saved Stefan

the fact that he literally taught her how to defend herself as a vampire

the fact that this needs to be said at all

obviously indicates Stefan loves a self-sufficient woman.

d) i love how people gloss over that damon became under the control of a siren because he hallucinated Elena's voice crying out to him for help and he got a hard-on for needing to save her even though Bonnie was legit telling him that it wasn’t real

I love how people are like, Damon only manhandles and threatens Elena with physical harm because he loves her and it’s the only way he can express how worried he is about her because she’s making stupid decisions and not Damon manhandles Elena because he’s trying to control her physical autonomy

and that every time anyone tries to impede Elena’s agency, she goes around them and finds a way to do what she was always going to do anyway but without the muscle a vampire could provide,

which Stefan knew and so he just tries to help her facilitate her choices instead of ignoring them so he can at least be there.

ANYWAY. I need people to watch the show.

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Somebody disrespecting you is a big deal to me, Liv.

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Being with you is a big deal to me.

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and he’s serious too!

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Me: Stefan and Elena go through some dark periods but all of which are contextualized by something larger than “you hurt my feelings and I want to make you suffer for hurting my feelings” such as: *explains in great detail what I mean* 

Delena stans: YOU ARE SO BIASED. STEFAN AND ELENA ALSO HAD DARK PERIODS AND YOU ACT LIKE THEY DON’T.

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so i've seen ur posts about how badly the show handled elena compelling her memories of damon away. how do you think stelena would've handled something like this? say for instance if elena was just left with her memories of stefan from s3. or if rebekah had actually compelled away stefan's memories like he'd asked in s4.

In terms of Stefan's memories, two things: one, we've seen how the show handled him not having memories of her in season 5, two I wrote a fic about Stefan losing his memories of Elena so there's another answer.

In terms of Elena only left with her memories of season 3, even that would have to be specific because her memories of Stefan in season 3 also include:

it also includes the necklace,

which even when the show attempts to re-purpose it as a DE symbol for Damon is fundamentally about Stefan, and Elena’s love for Stefan

and if it’s just the dark moments of season 3

there are still conversations around those moments

that indicate how this isn’t Stefan

and about how much they love each other.

Stefan’s darker moments are always contextualized by something bigger

so it just wouldn’t be as simple as keeping certain moments and losing others because the kept moments are loaded with nuance, even if she didn’t remember Stefan at all and only remembered Damon, these conversations are still being had:

OK so we erase every mention of Stefan as well, so then what was she doing throughout all that time, you can’t erase Stefan from Elena’s memories without completely fucking with her head, like there would be too many gaps, too many questions, too many partial memories, too many things not adding up, like, she has pictures of them on her phone,

Caroline’s picture of her and Stefan is actually of Stefan and Elena cuddling and Caroline as a third wheel,

the fact that she even has him as a contact in her phone would be confusing, and depending on when this would take place, who gave her her daylight ring,

who taught her to hunt as a vampire and to use speed and to control her emotions

like it would just drive her to understand what was happening to her.

and this is also why I had issues with the sirebond just being gone and Elena being totally OK afterwards because it fucked with her emotions and it fucked with her formative weeks/months as a vampire, she should’ve been doing what Stefan said he went through after what Katherine did to him

so yeah for as intricately involved in Elena’s life as Stefan was, taking that away from Elena and portraying that accurately would mean she’d go through a very messy and involved storyline.

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something else i think is underrated...

The way Elena pats Stefan’s wound after telling him she kissed Damon

because she had taken out both bullets a while before

and it’s like what I’ve mentioned many times before: seeing Stefan hurt in turn hurts Elena and she has a physical need to appease him of his pain

There’s this intense need and want for her to do everything she can to rid him of any kind of pain whether it’s physical or emotional.

Like in 1x17 when he’s been tortured and stabbed and she feeds him her blood, she smiles briefly when she sees that she’s helping him feel better:

In 3x07, her reaction to Stefan being stabbed is almost like she’s being stabbed too

And in 2x06, she has just caused him pain by saying that they have to break up and he‘s about to choke up and Elena can’t handle seeing him in pain so she rushes forward to touch his face and comfort him even when she’s saying they can’t be together:

and we see throughout their relationship, the way she reaches out to comfort him (which is also, in my opinion, underrated but I think all the ways Elena demonstrates her love for Stefan is severely underrated in the fandom)

and then 3x12 happens and she and Stefan aren’t in the best of places at that moment, she tells him she kissed Damon and as I’ve actually pretty recently reiterated, Elena seeks out reactions from Stefan.

Like, she appreciates his grace in these kinds of situations

but also yearns for a response, to know what he’s thinking, to know what he’s feeling so they can work through it

and Stefan does give his own kind of response, he’s crushed and it’s that quiet devastation I-feel-so-brittle-like-if-I-move-I’ll-just-break kind of silence that I always go on about when it comes to them

and her response is what it always is when she sees Stefan in pain, it’s to physically comfort him

even if she can’t do it to the extent that she would’ve in previous seasons.

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Jet is gonna want that back, btw

Patreon - DeviantArt - Twitter

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Classic sibling rivalry when you go and steal each other’s first crush

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Toph: I love you, okay?!?

Aang: The words are nice, but the tone is scary.

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I love when Spencer and Olivia get together and talk about their individual storylines because that’s when I realize how they are paralleling