thesaltyoceanwaves

[thesaltyoceanwaves]

The tags on that post about the Adrien Remix of TOTMIS got me wondering, have you ever written a Love Square fic before? And would you be willing to do it again?

Way, way back in the day (think the hiatus between season 1 and 2), I wrote a oneshot where Marinette and Adrien revealed their identities to each other in the same vein as the Dic dub of Sailor Moon.

I wouldn't write a full-on fic for them, if that's what you're asking. Maybe oneshot rewrites, or just HCs with changes I'd propose to the dynamic, but nothing in the vein of TOtMiS or Psyche and Bewitched.

#the one to make it stay #salty answers #ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #love square salt #kinda #before anyone asks where that oneshot is #idk #i don't even think it's on my ao3 #it might be on my main tumblr #it's been a minute so...

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Psyche and Bewitched Ch. 6 Snippet

Subject to change prior to final publication.

“Speaking of which,” Mylene hums, looking around, “I heard Chloe isn’t pleased that we still submitted the film without her. She overheard Nino planning a late birthday party for Adrien, so she’s decided to one-up him.”

“How so?”

Mylene shakes her head. “I’m not sure, honestly. She only got as far as threatening Nino’s party before she turned tail and left.”

Marinette frowns. That wasn’t Chloe’s typical style. Usually, she would brag about a few details here and there to catch everyone’s interest. Perhaps she had something a bit more elaborate in mind then if she wasn’t leaping at the chance to show off right away.

#psyche and bewitched #lukanette endgame #pro lukamari #lukanette #kwami swap #butterfly!luka #akumatized!marinette #akumanette

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Ah yes, the dreaded sentikids storyline. Do you think it could have worked? Or do you think it should have been scrapped all together?

I would have scrapped it, shredded it, loaded it up into one of Mayor Borgueois’s garbage can rockets, and sent it straight into the sun.

#ml salt #salty answers #this was only done to add pointless drama #the show has more than enough to work with #if the writers don’t know how to work with what they have then they should go back to the beginning #ml writing salt

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How do you feel about Felix's character?

Assuming you're referring to canon? Well, keep in mind I haven't seriously watched the show since Season 3, so my opinion pretty much stems from his debut episode, and the few things I know after that.

CW: Discussions of sexual harassment/assault

I have... mixed feelings on the guy. Him trying to force a kiss on Ladybug, and tricking Ladybug so he can take the miraculouses and give them to Hawkmoth are definitely bad, don't get me wrong.

My issue is that they write him this way to make Adrien look good. Especially in "Felix" when he tries to force the kiss, and Ladybug says that "Adrien would never be that pushy."

Now, obviously, Ladybug doesn't know that Chat Noir = Adrien, but like... Chat Noir has definitely been pushy before. And so it's kinda hypocritical for the show to call out Felix for that, and not Adrien.

Now, if Adrien saw what Felix was doing, and was like "hey, maybe I need to rethink how I'm treating LB," I don't think I'd mind nearly as much. After all, sometimes we can only really learn when a mirror is being held to our faces or we're watching from the outside.

But... no. We can't do that because Adrien is perfect or whatever.

The sad thing is, Felix has so much potential to be an interesting wild card character, wanting the miraculouses for his own reasons. Maybe he wants the Ladybug and Cat miraculouses so he can become a "real boy" (although if I was rewriting this, we are dropping the sentikids subplot, I hate that with all my hate). Or he has some other goal that puts him at odds with both Hawkmoth and Ladybug + Chat Noir. Heck, "Felix" already shows him to be self-motivated and proactive (scheming to get the Graham de Vanily rings).

Now, when writing Felix in TOtMiS (since I'm sure some of you are curious), I wanted a balance from the PV, canon, and fandom interpretations of the character. Him being self-motivated and proactive was retained from his PV and canon characterizations, because those were his best qualities. Also... because he's an antagonist.

However, I also like aloof interpretations of the character. Him being someone that only got involved with a situation if it benefited him personally or if he was interested just made sense to me. He might do good things, but altruism was not instinctive to him. If the show stuck to the PV route, I thought his character would have started him in this area, before growing out of it as part of his development.

When I wrote his confrontation scene with Adrien in "Horror Head," the idea was that both of them were wrong and both of them were right. Felix had valid points concerning Adrien's behavior and actions towards his friends, but Adrien's frustrations are fair too, and Felix addressing him in front of his friends the way he did was pretty boneheaded and petty. Which is why Nino ends up intermediating and presenting Felix's position in a more constructive way, while still showing care for Adrien's situation.

And before anyone asks, Feligami is a hard no for me. If they were allowed to banter and bicker like they were clearly meant to do, it would be far more entertaining and better. But as is? Forget it.

Anyway, TL;DR: my own decisions for writing Felix were inspired by how I wished canon would have taken more nuance to the dichotomy between him and Adrien, and he is at his best when he's being a smarmy know-it-all who plays by his own rules. And like most things in this show, his character and relationship with Kagami can work, just not with the way things are in canon.c

#salty answers #ml salt #felix salt #kinda #feligami salt #a dash anyway #cw: sexual harassment #cw: sexual assault #basically i like what he can hypothetically bring to the table #but he's held back by the worst writing decisions ever so...

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TOtMiS Anniversary Collection Ch. 9

Ao3

Aka the one where we feed the Marigami fans.

#ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #totmis anniversary collection

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You think you might end up doing a rewrite of TOtMiS in the future?

Uh, so here’s the thing.

On the one hand, I truthfully want to move on and do other things. Like MAYBE more Psyche and Bewitched? Or like… original projects that I haven’t touched in so long… Not to mention I haven’t really been watching Miraculous or been super active in the fandom for super long so…

On the OTHER hand… I would still like to make the series into one complete story, so it could be read in its intended order instead of needing to skip around. And if I end up doing that, I’m pretty certain I’d probably change a few things here and there so…

Don’t take this as a promise or anything, just a glance into my thought process.

#ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #lukanette #lukanette fic #pro lukamari #lukanette au #lukanette endgame #salty answers

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Were you really that bitter on both Adrien and Alya back when you started the fic?

Oh, absolutely. Remember, this was during S3, where they really hammered down on making Marinette "learn a lesson" every episode, and pushing that Lila was a master manipulator in the absolute worst way possible. While Alya and Adrien's actions and behaviors were exaggerated in TOtMiS... they still had some basis in canon. Episodes like "Chameleon," and "Ladybug," are pretty obvious examples of this, but you also have stuff in "Gamer 2.0," "Reflekdoll," "Weredad," and of course, the infamous "Puppeteer 2". And I'm sure there's others I'm forgetting. But regardless, it was an infuriating time, to say the least.

#salty answers #ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #lukanette fic #lukanette au #adrien salt #alya salt #kinda #pro lukamari #lukanette endgame

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Post "Blue Skies" Storylines: Adrien and Felix

Just a rough idea of how the storylines and characters would continue after "The Blue Skies and Your Eyes". If you haven't finished it yet, there's spoilers ahead! The full series is here.

First, we'll start with Adrien and Felix after leaving Paris and heading to London.

Adrien

-> Adrien is getting the therapy he needs while in London. He's able to unpack the issues he had with his father, the grief over losing his mother, and repair his relationship with Felix (who occasionally joins him for sessions). I also imagine him getting some social skills training to supplement the therapy. He's a bit hesitant at first, but is encouraged by his Aunt so he can better understand how healthy relationships work.

-> It takes some time for him to settle into London, but once he does, he starts exploring various interests and hobbies he didn't get to before. I've written a post addressing this before, but to reiterate, I imagine him getting into tricking (combination of martial arts and gymnastics that combines kicks and flips), baking, and romance fiction. To add on to that, I also see him joining a book and/or anime club at his school, or starting one outside of it. And since he's into tricking, I think I'd just have him join a martial arts school while we're at it (a glance at the wiki says that he does karate and kung-fu, so whatever school offers one of those is where he's enrolling).

(For those who need a visual reference of what tricking looks like).

-> His friend group consists of some members of the club he joins, people he regularly tricks with, students at his martial arts school, and some normal people at school. And of course, Felix, once the two have addressed the issues between them.

-> He still keeps in touch with Nino and Kagami, and occasionally Alya too. After doing some soul searching and healing, I could see him reaching out to Marinette and Chloe as well. Adrien and Chloe repairing their relationship helps her quite a bit as she's trying to adjust to New York.

-> Admittedly, he shies away from superhero fiction. Oftentimes, he thinks back to when Miracle Queen took the ring from him, and he can get defensive about it. He's aware of his behavior, but it takes him some time to really let go of it.

-> He is still a romantic at heart, but holds off on dating until a year or so has gone by. He wishes to avoid the fumbles he made with Kagami and Maribug, so he focuses on healing and self-improvement first. His first relationship ends up being someone from his tricking circle.

-> Down the road, I eventually see him becoming a romance author. However, he takes a pen name in order to disassociate himself from the Agreste name. He may also change his name legally for this reason.

Felix

-> While he does put effort into repairing his relationship with Adrien, Felix is well aware that he can never tell him about becoming the Guardian. Over time, he starts to feel a bit guilty about this, but never peeps or hints at it.

-> There were two things I thought of including for him originally in the main story, but never got to address properly: the first was another layer to why he was so hard on Alya. Initially, he was supposed to be a big fan of the Ladyblog, and even develop a small crush on Alya. However, he felt betrayed when he realized she wasn't entirely being truthful on there. The storyline would have focused on their rivalry, and him rekindling his crush on her, but letting go as she was happy with Nino.

-> The other main beat focused on why he was so interested in unraveling mysteries and secrets, which ties back to his own family history. The idea was that every male member on his father's side of the family died relatively young. This would make him concerned over his own mortality, and he would get into investigating the cause of it, since the circumstances were unusual. He would go around involving himself in situations he had no business in, simply to test his own skills.

-> Well, to tie into this new storyline, he'd balance his Guardian duties with finding the answer to this mysterious question. He refuses to admit it, but he's worried about his own mortality, if his own life will end shortly, and if so, by what means. This may cause him to take rash actions and to be called out by various people (Marinette, Luka, Fu, Adrien, etc.) It takes him some time to realize that he needs to practice self-care if he wants to prolong his life.

-> He ends up becoming a beta reader for Alya's autobiography. As they end up having to communicate a lot, I could see him developing a small crush on her, but choosing not to pursue it since she's with Nino. I think she's more observant at this point and picks up on it, but doesn't say anything.

-> You'll often find him spending time in the library doing research or studying for his Guardian duties. He earns the top grades in his class and seems to do so effortlessly. He only joins clubs if it benefits his investigations, with maybe debate team being an exception.

-> He develops a rapport with Marinette and Luka over time, as he continues his Guardian duties. He refuses to call them his friends, but it becomes pretty clear that he's fond of them.

-> In general, he's slow to make new friends. He often meets people when doing his investigations, or if his mom asks Adrien to drag him to one of his events, but they really only stand out to him if they're a person of interest.

-> One person decides to become his rival (for some reason), challenging him to various things, and often losing. When Felix declares that they aren't really friends, this person becomes really competitive... about making Felix his friend. And that's how Felix gains his confidant/sidekick.

#ml salt #ml salt au #ml salt fic #not really a salty post but tagging just in case #lukanette fic #lukanette au #the one to make it stay #pro lukamari #lukanette endgame #lukanette #post totmis

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Alright, 2 other major things that, in hindsight, I find not so great and would change. CW: Discussions of ableism and sexual harassment.

1. I would have changed the “Lila fakes a disability” part that led Marinette and co to want to transfer to Mendeleiev’s class for the next school year. As an autistic woman with ADHD, I found it frustrating that at no point in the show, none of the teachers asked Lila for proper documentation to give her accommodations. IRL, this is done so that our teachers can better work with us, and I wanted to share that experience in the story (this was also why I explicitly made Luka autistic, and if I were to rewrite or edit now, I’d establish it earlier).

In hindsight… I would instead opt to have Lila lie about her schedule as a reason for why she can’t do things, and try to get out of taking exams. I know *canonically* her faking having tinnitus is done to show that Lila is a liar and a bad person, but I think we can portray this aspect of her character without perpetuating ableist stereotypes. So I’d also rewrite Chameleon for this reason.

2. Looking back, I’d have Kagami better reflect on how Lila’s harassment might have impacted how Adrien reacted to things. Maybe not right away, like when she initially feels betrayed, but more so in the aftermath, when she’s had some time to reflect on things.

Anything you would have changed about the fic if you could go back in time and restart it?

Ooh, there’s been a few things on my mind:

-I’d try to better balance Adrien and Alya’s arcs. It was harder at the beginning of the fic because I was so annoyed with how the show was handling them at the time, and wanted them to be held accountable for their actions. There are times where, in hindsight, I felt Adrien’s depiction went too far, and would have either dialed it back or balance him out a bit better. He would still need to face consequences (because he was too shielded from them at the time), but looking at spoilers going forward, I’d also try to give him moments of emotional agency. I do think there was one point where I was going to write him as he ended up in “Nice Guy Adrien the Musical” but I’m glad that I didn’t go that far. I think there was also a point that I considered having Marinette and Alya call off their friendship, but it’s been a while so I don’t remember.

-Intersplice the “Paper Sky” chapters into the story. I’m still considering uploading the story as one full thing so there’s no jumping between parts, and it flows better.

-Fleshed out Ivan, Juleka, and Rose more. I wanted to do more with them, but the story was taking me in other directions. I’m at least glad I got their POVs and the dream chapters.

-I wouldn’t have announced Marinette not forgiving Adrien by the end. Not because I think she’s obligated to or because he deserves it, but because I now feel compelled to write it that way rather than letting it happen organically. Truthfully, I’m undecided now if she will or won’t. She’s the last chapter of the epilogue so I have some time, but still.

Those are the ones that come to mind, but others might hit me later.

#ml salt #lukanette #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #lukanette fic #pro lukamari #lukanette au #lukanette endgame #the blue skies and your eyes #salty answers #cw: ableism #cw: sexual harassment

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🥹🥰

Hey, i'm bored, can u recommend me some adrien salt fics (Bonus points if it's lukanette)

Bonus for Lukanette? Looks like I’m getting all the bonus points😂 I mean I haven‘t really read any Adrien salt fics for the sake of reading salt as of recent but because it was a Lukanette fic that happened to also have some salt😂 so yeah they’re all Lukanette whoopsie

Also I don’t know what exactly you’re looking for but most of those aren‘t really super heavy salt? And several salt on other characters as well, so beware. I‘ll try my best nontheless, hope that works for you

From the top of my head, here‘s a few I can think of:

Juleka vs the forces of the universe by @goldenlaurelleaveswrites , multichapter. Juleka is fed up with Mari being „meant for“ Adrien and works against the forces of the universe to get Lukanette to come closer. Beware, it‘s more or less salt against… well, everybody😂

Choice chances by @miraculouscontent , one-shot. Takes place after 5x02. Mari hangs out with Luka and opens up about her not feeling like she has much of a choice for her life. Adrien is only mentioned

Dread string of fate by @miraculouscontent , multichapter. You probably know that one, in which case, go reread it. It‘s a masterpiece

Everything from @miraculouscontent really😂

The one to make it stay by @thesaltyoceanwaves , multi-chapter. S3 Lukanette au. I love everything about it

Live with it by @quickspinner , multichapter. Aftermath of Chat‘s fuck-up in the NY special

The Ladybug‘s knight by Nyx_the_dragon on AO3, one-shot. Chat is being his obnoxious and flirty self and Luka gets akumatized over it.

Patient by 19thcentury on AO3, one-shot. Also NY special salt with mild Adrien salt. He‘s only mentioned

#ml salt #fic recs #lukanette fic

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Marinette: So I was just at the diner and they asked me if I wanted a super salad. I was not sure what it was so I just said yes. They gave me this weird look O_o

Luka: Marinette?

Marinette: Yeah?

Luka: Are you sure they didn't say soup or salad?

#lukanette #reblog bc this happened with my grandma when I was a kid lol

[thesaltyoceanwaves]

TOtMiS Anniversary Collection

Ao3

Note: This is Adrien's POV of "Good Intentions," a oneshot I wrote some time after "Startrain" aired. Aka, the oneshot where Lila gets exposed from everyone else trying to accommodate her so Marinette doesn't have to. If you remember, Adrien was the one to orchestrate the whole thing.

When I initially pitched the anniversary collection, I wanted to do alternate takes (or as I'll call them "remixes") in which Marinette found support from Kagami or Felix, and eventually Kagami, Felix and Luka. But after I wrote "Good Intentions," I realized that this could be the "Adrien Remix" of TOtMiS. Or more likely, a rewrite of canon.

Either way, I hope you enjoy it.

#ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #totmis anniversary collection #adrien remix #the first time writing something love square in live 5000 years

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The Blue Skies Ch. 11 (Final)

Ao3

And with this, "The One to Make It Stay" has been concluded (besides some AU chapters that I hope to get to soon). Thanks to everyone for reading for the past four years!

#ml salt #ml salt au #ml salt fic #lukanette #lukanette fic #lukanette au #the one to make it stay #the blue skies and your eyes #pro lukamari #lukanette endgame #also like #please feel free to send me any totmis related asks #i'll answer them best i can #tho it's been a while so i might have forgotten some details

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Blue Skies Ch. 10

Ao3

#ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the blue skies and your eyes #the one to make it stay #lukanette #lukanette fic #lukanette au #endgame lukanette #pro lukamari

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Psyche and Bewitched: Out of Context Line

May be subject to change prior to publication of chapter.

"I don't understand. What is it you want me to do, Mr. Roth?"

#lukanette #lukanette fic #lukanette au #endgame lukanette #pro lukamari #psyche and bewitched

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Do you really think all of ML's problems would be fixed if Adrien never existed?

Good heavens, no.

Adrien isn't the problem. He's just a symptom of a much larger issue. That issue being laziness and poor writing that comes in the form of "tell, don't show", plot threads that go nowhere, and lack of character development or plot progression that leads to a setup of "Status Quo Is God". Removing Adrien wouldn't fix all of that. Heck, it wouldn't fix any of that.

I can't fault the writers for replacing Felix with Adrien. Even if I and others could write out a plot with Felix, that's not to say everyone could or that the writers could. It could very well be that Felix as he was in the PV simply didn't work for the setup they had in mind.

...the issue here is that the setup they had in mind seems to require stagnancy. Where Hawk Moth attacks without winning and the heroes fight off the akumas without really trying to track him as the source and the two leads chase each other around in circles without anyone making any headway in either of these battles. Marinette wants to date Adrien. Chat wants to date Ladybug. It's why all her plans to ask him out fail while his attempts to express his feelings aren't taken seriously. And there is no forward movement, whether in their arc or in the fight against Hawk Moth. There wasn't even build or lead up to the two falling in love. They just started out episode one with crushes on each other and remained having crushes on each other until arguably season 5.

But no good story is stagnant. In this setup, characters need to do things and there needs to be a feeling of forward momentum.

Break it down this way: What is Adrien's problem? What is his goal? What is the obstacle to his goal?

Yes, we could say Adrien's dad being a supervillain and a neglectful jerk is Adrien's main problem, but it's not the problem Adrien is actually focused on in the show. Instead, if we could say Adrien has a problem, it would be that he wants to date Ladybug. And his goal is to date Ladybug. And the source of the problem and obstacle to his goal is...Ladybug.

So his problem, his goal, and the obstacle are all the same thing.

Adrien as he is in the show doesn't do anything. And he doesn't need to do anything because he is at his base a character that things are done for. He doesn't have a goal or direction or drive. He just comes out to deal with akumas as needed, flirt with Ladybug when he can, and then be sad because his life is so hard when he doesn't get what he wants. We don't see him doing anything else. We don't see him making friends. We don't see him engaging in school. We don't even really see how he interacts with the classmates he only recently met. Things happen around him, but he is not a driving force in anything in the show.

But Felix in the PV is a very driving character. He had a problem: he's cursed. What does he need to break the curse? A kiss from Ladybug. What are the obstacles to his goal: Ladybug refusing to kiss him and Hawk Moth trying to kill her. How does he get that kiss? By flirting with her and trying to earn her affections while protecting her and making sure she doesn't DIE against an akuma before he gets that special curse-breaking kiss.

It's the start of Felix's journey. His goal and the various obstacles to that goal that make his story interesting and his growth possible. As such, I see him as a character who would progress in his attempts to obtain his goal as well as one who would progress the storyline...which is also accurate of 3D Felix since that's kind of what he's done more in his relatively few appearances than the series has in 5 seasons.

Adrien didn't have to have Felix's personality. He didn't have to have the same goals or level of drive. But he could still have had things where he grows and helps to push the plot forward.

Adrien...

...just started school. He has no friends, knows no one, and is trying to learn the ins and outs of public education. How is he doing in the different setting with teachers instead of tutors? How is he trying to get along with his classmates? Does he experience bullying? Does anyone NOT like him? What is he going through as a new student who had been homeschooled all his life?

...is friends with Chloe. What's it like learning his "only friend" is a bully? How do people respond to this? Does anyone (besides Marinette) fear him or avoid him because if he's friends with Chloe, he must be just like her?

...is a superhero. He could have been spending time learning the history of the ring and trying to develop his powers. Trying to get stronger? Trying to get to know Plagg? What is he experiencing as a highly known model who is also a superhero and having to juggle those dual identities?

...has a dead mom who died of a "mysterious illness". Given that this loss supposedly occurred about a year prior, he could still be mourning her. Maybe trying to learn what happened to her.

...has a neglectful father. How is he trying to interact with his dad? How does he feel about his dad not being around? What is he doing to try to resolve this?

...has a supervillain father. Like, I cannot stress this enough! His dad is a SUPERVILLAIN! His dad is THE SUPERVILLAIN THEY ARE FIGHTING! People were predicting him finding out and joining Gabriel to try and revive his mom! People were living for the eventual heartbreak of when Adrien finds out the truth! Entire AUs, fan arts, and fanfics were born of this very idea! Going into the drama and struggle Adrien would be experiencing being caught between the "right thing" and the girl he loves and his duty vs his father and his mother and his family. HOW CAN THEY JUST IGNORE THIS?!

But we don't get any of that. Instead, we get Adrien...

...just acclimated with no issues in school and automatically friends with everyone. Good for him, I guess. Wish it was that easy for the rest of us.

...doing little besides occasional comments to Chloe as she is completely horrible for five seasons including Chloe stealing from classmates, getting the entire school punished for something she did, stealing a Miraculous, trying to crash a train, and betraying the city to Hawk Moth. But it takes him learning about something she did to Marinette a year ago for him to finally decide enough is enough and drop her as a friend.

...only goes out to deal with akumas as they come but does nothing to try and figure out his powers and history, get stronger, or try to track Hawk Moth.

...just moves on from dead mom. No relevance here aside from wanting to see a movie she was in or making a passing comment about how she got sick. No attempt to find out what happened to her. No questioning what she may have wanted for him.

...is just sad about his neglectful father neglecting him but seems to get over it rather quickly.

...never learns his father is a supervillain. Okay, I take it back. He learns twice and those timelines are erased with no real repercussions other than trauma for Marinette, so it really doesn't feel like they count. The pieces are all there, though! He knows his dad has the grimoire but never questions him about it! Never asks his dad what the deal was with Tibet! No question about how mom died or what is going on with Nathalie or what he's doing with a hidden mechanism in mom's portrait.

Adrien has potential. He has plot threads and aspects that could be used and goals he could have. But the writing does nothing with him, so while he has a number of things he COULD do to move forward and progress as a character or for the plot, nothing comes of it.

And that all boils down to a problem with the writing.

Adrien was chosen over Felix as an "easier" option to keep the story at a standstill so they could drag it out for as long as needed. That doesn't mean it should have been. There were so many paths that could have been taken, but Adrien was given the personality of a wet noodle, so he acts on none of them because that was what the writers wanted out of his character.

#ml salt #adrien salt #this is why it’s such an issue #that Adrien isn’t present at the final battle #it’s the perfect opportunity for him to learn something #have it affect his worldview #and watch him grow as a person #but then that would mean he isn’t pErFeCt #and the writers can’t have that #bc the world is supposed to be flawed not Adrien #the real tragedy of Adrien agreste #is that by sheltering him from heartbreak and hardship #he is denied any agency in his story #the only agency he gets is his pursuit of ladybug #which is its own problem as we’ve discussed in the past

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The Blue Skies Ch. 9

Ao3

#ml salt #ml salt fic #ml salt au #the one to make it stay #the blue skies and your eyes #lukanette endgame #lukanette #lukanette fic #lukanette au