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toh-infodumping · 1 year
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I need to get it out. I need to talk about this.
But there is something so cathartic about how Luz has similarities to Caleb; liking witches, falling for one, standing up for what they believe is right, trying to make peace, ultimately dying. And how Hunter has similarities to Belos; hating witches, wanting to do what they believe is right, frowing upon Luz's/Caleb's actions. At the beginning anyways.
As then you witness Hunter's CHANGE. To show that it WAS POSSIBLE for Belos to change. It was possible for Philip Wittebane to see the error of his ways and change for the better. How it would have made his and Caleb's relationship better, how he would have maybe found love, how he'd be happy. We say Hunter learn it! We heard and saw Hunter's beliefs until he started truly understanding both Luz and Belos. Things changed.
But for a show to show what the world would be if you allow others to influence your perception for the better. To not be so closed mind.
Luz and Caleb has many similarities but Hunter started breaking his with Belos. He is his own person now. A better person. A good person. Something Belos died playing the victim of than truly wanting to change to become one.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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This scene makes a lot more scene now considering we've seen Belos's monster side before the finale.
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Hunter has seen Belos's monster state before. Enough that to witness Belos "going monster" only warrants him looking away until his uncle is more composed. Which suggests more than once, probably a handful of times or even more than that. After all, Hunter is calm and as collective as he can be. He only hands over the Palisman when he is able, acting like he is seemingly unphased by what he witnessed.
However, in Hollow Mind, we see the impact of it all that's left on Hunter.
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Luz sees Belos with "a thousand glowing eyeballs" and thought that there's something wrong, as any other rather sane person would. Hunter however, immediately jumps into how this is most likely a punishment. Which someone wouldn't suggest, no matter the amount of abuse, that turning into a monster with many glowing eyeballs is "a punishment" unless this is a normal occurrence. Which it is for Hunter, as we saw in Hunting Palismen (and above) with how he handles it. And this isn't healthy.
But from then on out of the episode, we see how Hunter trult reacts to the monster. How he both will turn to face him, as he most likely done before but how terrified he is of it.
Hunter turns in the direction he hears the shricking from.
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His shoulders dropping into a more relax position upon hearing the shricking and turning rather calmly to see. Only then remembering the danger he's in with monster Belos.
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Hunter yet again, turning to look at it only to take terrified steps back. It's Luz that has to break him out of the trance and remind him that he can run. She offers her hand to him, which we did see him take.
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And his stance with with his fearcul expression when the monster forms in front of him.
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And even in the season 2 finale, He's terrified of his Uncle. Sure enough, it's for multiple reasons why at this point; Belos wants him dead, his friends are in danger, the whole boiling isles is dying, he knows what the emperor is capable of. But he can't bring himself to attack Belos, so he plays defense. And even then, we see him making these faces.
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In conclusion the fact, fuck Belos. What have you done to this boy that he's so terrified of your monster form, Belos? What did you do to him in your monster form, sir? Why is his first reaction to look at you? Why does he run only when you get too close? How much pain have you caused him with this form alone? I hate seeing him so afraid but it makes so much sense to with how he was raised.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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They way they help him him get up and move quickly <3
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The way she helps him be stable as they stand. Be the one for him to lean on <3 Plus how happy Willow and Gus get seeing him become ok <3
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Their friendship has me so soft.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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In Cloud on the Horizon's, most exactly during the illusion switch between Hunter and Luz- many people have done a post about how you can tell there was a switch that happened by how the characters act, due to being rather very different in how they approach things. Therefore, I won't do a post on that.
However, I am going to do a post on how Hunter's natural body language is easy to been seen when he looks like Luz's. We have known Hunter for 6-7 episodes by Cloud on the Horizon and he's made cameos in 2-3 other episodes too. We are used to how his body language is with how stiffed and tense he constantly is to the point that we become blind to what degree it is.
However, seeing that body language in Luz makes you understand just how much of a child warrior he is.
He has his fists up ready to physically fight Kikimora and Odalia, whoever he has too. This is what he's trained to do.
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He even keeps his fists up ready for a possible betrayal on Odalia's part when everyone else is in a more "relax but ready to fight is needed" position.
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Hunter being tense and having his hands in fist. His hands are always in fists, same we see canon Hunter's hands. His shoulders are squared. Ready for anything. Prepared.
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Even during a part that his shoulders are more looser due to Alador talking to him, his hands are still in fists. It's his natural position. THIS! This is his relaxed position. It's not a truly relaxed but to him, it is.
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The show doesn't mess around with showing us the effects of how he was raised. I love it.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I adore how at this moment, when Hunter protects Willow from falling debris
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She realizes she needs help, so she shouts out to-
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It wasn't Hunter who is right beside her.
I simply cannot get over how this entire time, for the entire finale, no one forced Hunter to fight Belos. No one told him he had too before this event and no one told him or even called out to him during this event either. They all allowed him to play defense and they relied on him for that. But even then, I’m sure they weren’t even expecting Hunter to do that much. Hunter chose to play defense by protecting them all.
It’s extremely sweet to see that too. For so many shows, we see how those in the group tell the victim that they have to stand up to their abuser with them. But in The Owl House, they never do that. They don’t force Hunter, they let him choose. And they stood by him and help protect him when he chooses to do defense without complaining. 
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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Can’t get over the fact that it's Hunter who opened the door to the human realm.
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He's always been curious. Always reading about Wild Magic. Even in Eclipse Lake, when Belos replacing him with Kikimora on the mission, we see how negatively that decision truly effected him, and yet he ends up asks questions about the Human Realm first. He wants to know, but all-in-all, it’s Belos who wants to get back. It's Belos who's goal is it to go through the door. It isn’t Hunter’s. He is curious but he has shown no desire in going to the Human Realm. And yet, it is Hunter who opens it.
Belos has tried too. Tried desperately to have a way back so once the draining spell is complete, he can leave the corpse of an island and return as a hero. To fulfil his delusion. And he did get so close too.
How Hunter and him rebuilt the Portal.
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He tried making keys, only for them to get burnt up by the door.
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He manipulated Hunter into getting him the real key, or at least titan’s blood to make a new key, which is successful.
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He set up the portal on the day of unity so he can leave after his plan for genocide.
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And yet, despite how close he got- for how long this plan went on for- It was Hunter who opened the door. It’s ironic. He’s killed his brother, he’s created and killed so many Grimwalkers of his brother, and it is that same Being that got what he desired. To return the way he wanted, completely intact. 
And not only that, but when the door opens it is revealed to be exactly what Belos said to Hunter.
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And that It is what Hunter experiences. Belos might have lied a lot to him; Wild Witches, Wild Magic, Palismen being evil, their family, his love and care for the boy. However, he didn’t lie about the Human realm. The rain DOESN’T boil. The trees ARE green. The night IS quiet.
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It’s cathartic in a sense for Hunter to realize Belos didn’t like about every single aspect in his life. But I’m sure that only causes him more confusion in the general area of “What did he tell me was a lie and what was the truth?”
But also don’t get me wrong... Belos got to witness it too. Exactly how he remembered it... just not in the way he expected to witness it. He even shuts the door at the end. As if to close that chapter of his life. His goop does land on the doorknob facing out into the rain after leaving a splatter inside the cabin.
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How ironic. He can't even move on from this experience like how he wanted.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I love how Hunter just stares ABSOLUTELY stunned at how Willow just snatched and held down Monster Belos.
Like how Willow snatches, pulls, and holds Belos down
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And he stands there AMAZING.
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Because he knows what Belos in his monster form could do. So the fact that Willow is just so strong to do this to him... No wonder he's shellshocked.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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The amount of Golden Guard masks and skulls we see in King's Tide is... (Note: Teal dots = Masks, Purple dots = Skulls. And measures were taken in so I don't double count.)
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Is 71 masks and 70 skulls in these pictures alone. Which means Belos killed at least 71 Grimwalkers. However, there is most likely more due of them to some being buried under the others.
But in Hollow Mind we see...
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18 of the Golden Guard masks and no skulls.
My theory is that these few that has a slot in his mindscape are “memborable” unlike the rest. And even then, he never went and looked at the corpses.
Now imagine that? Being created as a clone and raised on nothing but manipulation and abuse only to then be killed off and not be remembered by your abuser. To be completely forgotten about.
And Belos did that to 53 of them and plus some..
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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Ok! Took a little break! Posts should be back tomorrow. Sorry about that.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I recently talked about the possibility of Hunter growing up outside the castle only to be saved by Belos for manipulation tactics in this post.
However, I accidentally looked over the fact that while, yes they do grow.
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They also pop out of the ground. Having it be such a core memory for Belos that it's not only cemented his mindscape gallery but also presented in his worst memory.
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And its such an important aspect for Grimwalkers that even the Collector makes a jab at it.
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Yet, this answers and brings up so many questions for me. Let me explain myself.
Belos "finding" Hunter and taking him in can, of course, be refered to with this. Hunter comes out the ground, confused and new to the world, where Belos "finds him" and takes him in. Being fresh to everything, Belos knows it's easy to manipulate the idea into Hunter that-
1) The sigils are good and they make the titan happy
2) "You're useless without magic" (as this scene suggests),
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3) The titan has big plans for you,
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4) "Wild magic is bad and it killed our family," as Belos most definitely took the chance to immediately tell Hunter that upon his "birth."
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The kid's head is fuzzy and he's dealing with memory issues (explaination further down)? It's because Wild Witches attacked him and their family, killing everyone but him and Belos- his uncle. Of course, it's due to THAT reason! No wonder his head hurts now and he can't remember ANYTHING until now!
But it is sad to know that Hunter did believe that piece of information wholeheartedly until the end of Hollow Mind.
Also, not to mention, Grimwalkers raising from the earth can also explain these scenes-
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There are A LOT of Golden Guards in total. A LOT. And for them to be raised from birth to whatever age they were at when they got killed is implausible. This many would have taken thousands (1000+) of years to accomplish as Belos suggests he only raises 1 at a time. "We can make another Grimwalker!" - "Not until we deal with this one." (King's Tide) Yet we know Belos is- give or take- only 350+ years old.
Plus, all of these skulls are around the same size, which means they all around the same age. And in the pictures above, the hand reaching out of the ground is a grown hand within the teenager range. My personal belief is that these Grimwalkers come out of the ground between the ages of 12-18, as slowly the Grimwalkers get younger and younger for easier manipulation - where they get to learn about the world and be put into training to learn how to fight. Yet, it's all a ruse to have the information digged into them that they- a powerless witch- is in a world full of magic and they're useless. But the titan has big plans for them so they better train hard. They have to make Belos not regret taking them in.
However this doesn't answer other questions that plagues my mind.
How much does a Grimwalker know when they come out of the ground? I brought up "memory issues" before as it'll be convenient if Grimwalkers can speak, understand language, and get up and move around easily. However, they wouldn't have Caleb's memories. After all, they have Caleb's bone (dna), not his brain. And DNA doesn't hold memories in the way I'm talking about. Therefore, it must be fuzzy for them when they come out of the ground, right? Unable to remember anything until that very point.
But that's also assuming Grimwalkers come out of the ground understanding language and being able to move their limbs accordingly. There is a chance that they come out of the ground with the mentality of babies and not heavy amnesia folks. In the sense that they don't know how to talk or walk. Yet, if so then maybe they're quick at learning so it's not super annoying on Belos and his very thin patience?
How long do they know they have to stay in the ground to grow? Is the growing process quick? Is it one hour equals one year? Or is it one day equals one year? In my personal belief, I am leaning towards 1 hour or even less equals one growth year as on the day of Unity, the Collector suggests making a new Grimwalker to play with at the day of Unity event. Which will be impossible if this is a multi day process.
And if it is a quick growing process, is that why the first grimwalker is so jaring to Belos that it become a core memory? Was he expecting to wait days only to suddenly witness a hand shooting out the ground 16-18 minutes/hours later?
So many questions left unanswered and yet answered enough to understand Hunter and his situation even more. I keep being impressed by the writing in this show.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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Hunter has an issue with his hands. We've seen this. The way he looks in pain. The way he holds it afterwards. The movement/flinch away when he's able too.
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Which is why it is so sweet that Gus and his handshakes are always a form of fist bump! It doesn't hurt and you can see how comfortable Hunter is with it!
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It's nice seeing him discover something that he likes and doesn't hurt him with a friend that's willing to learn.
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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does the undercover au got changes for hollow mind?
An interesting question.
At the time of Hollow Mind, everyone knows that Hunter, the Potions kid is also the Golden Guard; Luz, Amity, Eda, King, Wilow, Gus, Skara and Viney.
So I would say there would be slight changes to the episode but not massively as both Hunter and Luz get stuck in Belos's mindscape experiencing horrors. They're more busy than not to bring up personal things such as why Hunter is in Hexside and his mission.
Therefore, the changes that would happen would be Luz adding additional words. "Why would you help someone like that?! And you work so hard for him too!" And "Hunter um, listen, you don't return go back castle. You can stay at the Owl House if you'd like! And we can sneak you into school if you still want to do that. I know you go there for him though... but hey! I'm sure Eda wouldn't mind."
Luz does go "missing" after Hollow Mind though. And by that I mean, canon plot of her recovering, going to see King's family, and hiding out with the CATS before going to rescue Amity from being grounded. So she doesn't go to school and look for him.
Same thing happens to Hunter. He still hides out at school, much to his surprise no one tries to find him there. But he stays there until Labyrinth Runners.
So to everyone elses point of view, both Luz and Hunter just dropped from the face of the Boiling Isles. Not at school, not at home, they haven't seen the Golden Guard around. They're just nowhere (until canon events)
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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Decided to do something new. I wrote a piece and published it.
It takes place after King's Tide:
The Nightmares in a Sleepless Nights
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I should also mention that the gang looking for the restaurant has a lot of "on Knee Pit? You mean See Pit Lane?" And "Trash Lights? No... I know of Trash Bites! Its a potion shop!" (They go and its a really runned down place. They don't know a Hunter.) From the locals!
Hunter has no idea the gang is doing this, by the way.
Makes the whole, "We tried to find your restaurant yesterday, Hunter" even better when they're at school the next day.
Can I get more information on the quest to find hunters uncle’s restaurant?
Of course! So it'll be an additional B-plot episode in season 1. An episode that's not in canon where Luz deems Hunter to also be a weirdo at school and attempts to make friends with him. "Hello, Hunter! You're so alone and rumored to be weird! Well maybe you can hang out with us!!" She does this despite Willow and Gus telling her that the lonely potions boy chooses to be alone by choice! However, after being approached, Hunter is caught off guard.
"You knooow, you don't have to be alone any longer! As I said, you can join our group! We— can't really change the fact that you're weird but! We can hang out! What'cha say? Wanna hang out with us after school? Willow, Gus and I are going-" Luz tells. She elbows Hunter's arm.
Hunter interrupts with a laugh, "Haha! Wha-haha-t? Noo. No, I don't need friends. I don't want to hang out. And even if I did, I wouldn't be able too. I have work."
This catches Luz, Gus and Willow's attention. The potions boy works?? "You work? What do you work as? Are you an apprentice to a potions witch??" And this causes Hunter to talk out his ass! Lemme tell you! Had to look around to tell them that his uncle runs a restaurant (he saw someone eating), it's called Trash Lights (he saw the trash and lights), and it's on Knee Pit lane (he sees someone knee and someone fall into a pit outside).
So the gang believes Hunter is a waiter for his Uncles restaurant. They even spend the rest of the day trying to find the restaurant that doesn't exist! But now anytime Hunter is really tired, before they find out he's the Golden Guard, they ask if the restaurant was busy. They also ask if he can bring them some food (mostly Luz), which Hunter grumbles a no. It's also referenced a few times like "Man, I'm hungry. Only if we can find Trash Light."
So it's just overall, a really fun little thing!
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I’m late to this but Hollow Mind is over a month old now and as a celebration for the episode that’s been living rent free! We'll gonna talk about all the things Luz learned in Belos's mind!! As holy crap! There’s a lot!
Hunter has a Palisman
Belos’s is Hunter’s Uncle
Mindscapes reflect the individual
Hunter knows how Mindscapes work
Hunter believes that wild magic is actual bad and what Belos is doing is good.
Hunter is the youngest Golden Guard
There were previous Golden Guards
Belos fabricated personality is from all the lies he tells which is what everyone sees
Walkie-Talkies work in mindscapes
Strong emotions can take form in a mindscape
If you get devoured in a mindscape, you’re trapped forever in his subconscious.
Hunter is in extreme denial about Belos
Belos staged wild witches attacking him with wild magic and destroyed a town on purpose.
Belos’s plans with the sigils
Belos has the portal and Hunter helped him rebuild it
Belos is planning a draining spell on the Day of Unity - to wipe out all life in the demon realm
He’s working with the Collector, who Hunter doesn’t know anything about
Hunter gave Belos the key and how Belos treated him
Belos has manipulated Hunter and killed the “previous attempts” that betrayed him - aka, Hunter is in danger of staying with Belos
There were MANY Golden Guards that have been killed off
The monster is all the Palismen souls Belos at
The kid Belos is the real Belos
When Hunter finally realized Belos isn’t good, Belos tries to kill him
Hunter is a Grimwalker, which is “a better version of an old friend”
Belos is a witch hunter
She’s been tricked by him before
Belos is Philip and Philip is Belos - same person
Belos knows her in-the-past alias name still, which means he knew her this entire time due to time travel
You can just make grimwalkers?
Belos thinks he’s protecting humanity
Belos doesn’t know that he’s evil - he called her crazy
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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Can I get more information on the quest to find hunters uncle’s restaurant?
Of course! So it'll be an additional B-plot episode in season 1. An episode that's not in canon where Luz deems Hunter to also be a weirdo at school and attempts to make friends with him. "Hello, Hunter! You're so alone and rumored to be weird! Well maybe you can hang out with us!!" She does this despite Willow and Gus telling her that the lonely potions boy chooses to be alone by choice! However, after being approached, Hunter is caught off guard.
"You knooow, you don't have to be alone any longer! As I said, you can join our group! We— can't really change the fact that you're weird but! We can hang out! What'cha say? Wanna hang out with us after school? Willow, Gus and I are going-" Luz tells. She elbows Hunter's arm.
Hunter interrupts with a laugh, "Haha! Wha-haha-t? Noo. No, I don't need friends. I don't want to hang out. And even if I did, I wouldn't be able too. I have work."
This catches Luz, Gus and Willow's attention. The potions boy works?? "You work? What do you work as? Are you an apprentice to a potions witch??" And this causes Hunter to talk out his ass! Lemme tell you! Had to look around to tell them that his uncle runs a restaurant (he saw someone eating), it's called Trash Lights (he saw the trash and lights), and it's on Knee Pit lane (he sees someone knee and someone fall into a pit outside).
So the gang believes Hunter is a waiter for his Uncles restaurant. They even spend the rest of the day trying to find the restaurant that doesn't exist! But now anytime Hunter is really tired, before they find out he's the Golden Guard, they ask if the restaurant was busy. They also ask if he can bring them some food (mostly Luz), which Hunter grumbles a no. It's also referenced a few times like "Man, I'm hungry. Only if we can find Trash Light."
So it's just overall, a really fun little thing!
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toh-infodumping · 2 years
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I love your hunter at hexside au so much! I had a question about it, In hunting palismen how does that go? Also when does he get flapjack? Does it still happen after he's kidnapped all the palismen or does he get him at adoption day?
This question made me stim /pos. I love this section of this AU!
In Separate Tides, Luz doesn’t realize the Golden Guard is Hunter! She has an honorary dumb human moment. Mostly because she was dealing with emotions, she can’t see his face and his voice is slightly altered due to his mask. Not to mention Student Hunter is a mixture of the Golden Guard and Hunter, which means the Golden Guard is an entirely different personality.
Hunter does recognize her but his mission comes first. However, the next day at school you don’t see him anywhere in the background as he is purposely avoiding Luz and her crew. Yet, when it’s revealed she has yet to put the pieces together, he’s relieved. His secret is safe! For now.
During Hunting Palismen though! This is where things get very good! Dialogue and scene changes do occurs. For example, Hunter is at the coven meeting at the beginning and then we see him come to class late. He stands there uneasy as it’s Palisman Adoption day. Palisman are filled with wild magic. They’re dangerous! All of Belos’s lies circle in his head and he refuses to get one. He doesn’t even speak to the Palisman. No. Instead, he things it over for the rest of the day. How can he take those Palismen and all of his classmates Palismen so he can give them to Belos? Hm... Hm...
Which is why, he takes the hut later that night unaware of Luz being in it.
Some example of dialogue changes is when Luz says “This is the Golden Guard? It looks like he could be a student at Hexside.” She instead says, “This is the Golden Guard? Isn’t this the potion student at Hexside? Hunter, wasn’t it?”
She still does slap him and covers his mouth but instead of saying “Sh! Listen! You are a bad person and I do not like you. But! Kikimora is trying to kill you and unfortunately, I am too nice to let that happen!” She says, “Sh! Listen! I am very confused right now and I don’t know how to feel about you. But! Kikimora is trying to kill and you and I am too nice to let that happen! Also, I need answers!”
But throughout the episode, Luz was trying to get him to talk about it. Instead of “Hey man, I just saved your life. The least you could do is tell me your name.” Is now “Hey man, I just saved your life. The least you could do is tell me what’s up with you! Why are you a student at Hexside if you’re also the Golden Guard! Have you been lying about everything?” Which Hunter doesn’t answer.
Actually, Luz asks him a lot of questions. “Wait is this the work you have to do after school? Does your uncle even run a restaurant (a running joke in this au)? (gasp) Do you even have an uncle?!” - “Of course I have an Uncle!” Hunter would only snap reply to- what he believes is- the really dumb questions.
Truthfully, this still leads to Luz talking about her plan with the glyphs and Hunter getting ready to ramble but stopping himself. He opens up about being a powerless witch which Luz does make a comment on. “So... you weren’t choosing to not do magic this whole time. You really weren’t able too.”
She does ask why he’s at Hexside but Hunter only shrugs and says “Belos wanted me there. Thought it’d benefit me or something.” Which is a half-lie as he doesn’t want to tell Luz his full mission.
And at my favorite part! “I thought maybe you were a good guy, but I guess that was just wishful thinking. You’re not my friend. You’re just... the Golden Guard.” - “My name is Hunter.”  Turns into!  “I thought maybe you were a good guy, but you have lied about everything. Suppose it was wishful thinking too. But you’re not my friend. You never were, were you? You’re just... the Golden Guard.” - “I didn’t lie about everything. My name is Hunter.”
For his secret to be outed but still feel vulnerable enough to tell Luz about how he’s a powerless witch and the fact his name IS Hunter is such a huge step for the boy!
He does avoid her the next day at school though. Doesn’t appear anywhere and Luz does look for him. Hunter is just good at hiding. But he can’t escape for too long.
With Flapjack! He gets him the canon way as Flapjack realized he has the same liked-minded desire as Hunter on the roof when the boy is talking to Luz. Flapjack does end up going to Hunter’s room at the end of the episode too. At the beginning, he was too scared of Palismen due to the stories Belos told. He still is with Flapjack. But he has a connection with this Palisman now. 
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