toshinoumu - Tumblr blog

toshinoumu · 8 months

Text

The Case for Toshinori Yagi Living and What (Could) Happen Next

Now that MHA 386 is officially out in English as of 4/23/23, @aoimikans and I can talk about our discussions and theories of what comes next. This is mainly an argument for (and reassurance of) Toshinori Yagi living through the coming fight with All for One with evidence from the series—as well as some related theories and predictions.

Buckle in, because this is a long one.

An outline for the sake of having an abbreviated list of what we intend to cover:

The Case for Toshinori Yagi living through this fight and why.

Toshinori’s character arc - What we know, and how it has been presented - A Callback to a Previous Meta: “Narrative as an Active Force […] True Heroic Ideals” / Toshinori’s Heroic Spirit

Shigaraki vs. Izuku - The One for All Mindscape - Bakugou completes the whole. Save to Win. Win to Save.

Toshinori’s last fight and its nature - Won’t cost him his life, but may cost him a limb.

The proximity of Hero Killer: Stain - Also, does he have the Green Goblin hover glider?

The Question Posed: Can a Quirkless Person Be a Hero? - The difference between “Hero wa dekimasu ka?” and “Kimi wa hero ni nareru.”

Nighteye’s Vision and Twisting Fate - How it’s worked before

Citizens of MHA - How they could help

All for One’s Hatred and Self-Inflicted Demise - He isn’t the same AfO

Quirks: What we know, and how we know it - What are Quirks - To be Quirkless - To have multiple Quirks

How All for One could screw himself over in the end - It’s too late for him

Whereas Toshinori has decided to live…

What we know: Toshinori grew up as a Quirkless young man living in a state of terror with a strong drive to do something to change the world and make it better. His mentor, Nana Shimura, was like a mother to him and passed the power of One for All to him. She was killed, and Toshinori was forced to flee until he was strong enough to take down AfO’s empire. He returned and in his first fight with AfO he believed he killed him. He was injured to the point his sidekick Sir Nighteye suggested retirement and revealed a vision of a terrible death at the hands of a villain. Toshinori refused to retire, but he became disheartened even while he continued his work as a hero with a shortening time/endurance limit. Then he was inspired after meeting Izuku. Izuku changed his outlook, particularly during and after the Kamino fight.

How it has been presented: Perhaps some of the most defining moments of Toshinori’s character arc are scenes in which he declares his desire and determination to live despite the hardships of his post-Kamino existence. Let’s take a look at some:

It has not been an easy road for Toshinori. After making the above declarations, his self-worth took a major blow when he fell behind, unable to keep up and support Izuku in the way he felt he needed to. But then, he was given an intervention from some unexpected sources—Hero Killer Stain and the last person All Might saved—who gave him back his will to live, and he reaffirmed his drive to live and support his students.

Toshinori’s character development—particularly post-Kamino—has been all about being Toshinori Yagi and having a life after losing his ability to be All Might. Toshinori Yagi is flawed, not the physical powerhouse he was as All Might, but he has worth and the desire to live as himself.

Toshinori lives and his character arc and development all mean something. The mentor-dies trope died with Nana Shimura in the last generation of heroes. Sir Nighteye’s vision of a certain, terrible future died with him (see the Nighteye section below for an expansion on this). Toshinori’s character shows a life after being a career hero, being a Pillar of society, and being a Symbol of Peace. He didn’t lose his value when he used up the last of One for All. Toshinori has inherent value and should be allowed to live out the rest of his natural life.

Toshinori dies… and then what? What was the point of his declarations? What was the point of his development and overcoming hardships? These were personal victories witnessed by very few people in private moments. Just from a story-writing perspective, his death would be so incredibly unsatisfying. And if he dies, what happens with AfO? Does he just move on to the next fight? No, death doesn’t make sense here.

I once wrote a meta post titled “Narrative as an Active Force and Izuku as an Embodiment of Heroic Ideals”. In the post, I briefly discussed how those that left the path of a True Hero typically faced suffering punishment (usually an injury or an encounter with Stain). In the case of Toshinori, his first fight with All for One resulted in his injury because he fought—if only for that final blow—for revenge for Nana Shimura. AfO taunted him, insulted Nana Shimura, and All Might “killed” him.

Toshinori’s choice to go and face All for One for a third time without a Quirk was an act of bravery, sacrifice, and True Heroic Ideals. This alone would, in a way, atone for his previous actions of fighting with wrath and intent to kill.

This altruism—not a Quirk, not power, not fame—is what makes him a hero.

Whereas Shigaraki is Izuku’s foil and foe, not All Might’s…

Just as Toshinori told Naomasa Tsukauchi that he was always meant to fight All for One (and told Todoroki to return to face Touya/Dabi), Izuku is meant to fight Shigaraki. It is also important to note that Naomasa was also present when Gran Torino told Toshinori that he could never fight Shigaraki because he would not be able to see him as a villain, but as Nana Shimura’s grandson.

Each party is pairing off to face the foe they are meant to face.

Toshinori lives and faces All for One, helping take down the villain whose evil acts formed Toshinori’s youth and career. He is the best suited in this moment to tie that loose end.

Toshinori dies… and then what? He would join the other vestiges of One for All holders past. But what good would that do? Flame Vestige Toshi already receives input from Toshinori with him still living.

Flame Vestige Toshinori (Aura Might) has access to all of Toshinori’s memories. He is Toshinori Yagi within the vestige mindscape, one and the same, wholly Toshinori while being separate from the living body of Toshinori. Toshinori is already there. They are one and the same. And Flame Vestige Toshi can communicate with the other vestiges, so if there was something critical that Izuku needed to hear, the vestiges could pass that message along.

If anything, if Toshinori died and became a clearer image in the vestige mindscape, it would be a major distraction and an unspeakably devastating loss for Izuku—who, may I remind you, is fighting after seeing Bakugou pretty visibly dead-looking and losing control of his emotions immediately. Even ignoring that, what would Toshinori be able to add to Izuku’s knowledge or power that his Flame Vestige or the other vestiges haven’t already? What could he add to Izuku’s knowledge that he hasn’t already taught him in person? Nothing really. So! With that said, there would be no point in having Toshinori enter the One for All Mindscape.

Shigaraki is Izuku’s foil, his foe. From the beginning of the story, Izuku has been pitted against Shigaraki who is the final Big Bad. Izuku has also shared his desire to somehow reach and save the child—Tenko Shimura—that is trapped within the twisted person of Shigaraki-AfO.

This is his fight… but not his alone.

Save to Win. Win to Save. Izuku is one half. Bakugou completes the whole. Ultimately, the final fight—if we are to trust how things are foreshadowed so far—will be Shigaraki vs. Izuku and Bakugou.

Not only that, but they may finally do what is necessary to be whole themselves. Bakugou may Save to Win (i.e. he may save Izuku when things seem dire and turn the tide of the fight). Izuku may Win to Save (i.e. defeating this Shigaraki-AfO hybrid to save Tenko and everyone he knows).

Toshinori has already told them they could be great heroes together. This is their fight to prove it, together.

Whereas Toshinori doesn’t need to defeat All for One, he just has to stall…

We understand All for One is on a time limit. He is rapidly regressing/de-aging and will likely disappear given enough time. We also know that as he regresses, All for One’s emotions and mental focus are slipping out of his careful control. He was in a hurry to get to Shigaraki so that Shigaraki could take in the main body Quirk and All for One would then be able to live on and take complete control of the Shigaraki-AfO hybrid.

Toshinori understands the absolute need to keep All for One from reaching Shigaraki (and also Izuku). Toshinori understands no power thus far has kept All for One from going where he likes. And even those in the control room attempting to coordinate the fighting and the evacuation of civilians understand that there is no one else who could stop All for One.

Importantly, Toshinori understands All for One’s obsessive hatred for him. No powers necessary, Toshinori was able to stop All for One in his tracks by just being there. Toshinori’s presence alone was enough. The rest is stalling AfO until his time runs out.

Also, this fight is taking place at Kamino. Toshinori Yagi’s place of origin, the starting point of Toshinori post-All Might. You don’t fight there again, with that significant backstory, and lose. (I swear, I will cry if the chapter is Toshinori Yagi: Origin or Toshinori Yagi: Rising.)

This Toshinori is the fulfillment of him being himself. He is the “mighty ally” waiting to stop All for One. This man who has struggled with self-worth and the will to live post-Kamino, he calls himself mighty! Quirkless Toshinori faces the greatest threat of generations with a fierce grin and the confidence of one who will put his whole back into this fight. He will win—and AfO will lose—because he must.

Aoimikans and my “Cost an Arm” Theory: Even though we believe Toshinori will not die and ultimately AfO will lose… we don’t necessarily think this will be a clean fight. Sir Nighteye predicted a terrible death, so what might he have seen leading up to it? Loss of limb, perhaps.

Toshinori will be in some kind of mech armor that AfO will probably need to—maybe after some badass fighting—tear apart. We’re fairly certain that given Horikoshi’s track record of heroes getting pretty gnarly bodily injuries, AfO is going to take one (or part) of Toshinori’s arms in the fight to get back at him for all the punching and smashing All Might did.

That and we know that information from Toshinori’s body/mind is fed into the vestige mindscape already via Flame Vestige Toshi. Perhaps Toshinori will lose the arm, the arm appears from the flame of Toshi’s vestige, distracting Izuku enough for a negative turn in the battle, which then leads to an opening for Bakugou’s reentry into the fight to turn it for the better. Drama! Suspense! Weeks between chapters with tense uncertainty!

Also, Horikoshi has a love of Star Wars and getting a limb cut off is just in vogue.

But don’t worry! If this does happen, Toshi will probably get a badass prosthetic like other similarly injured characters.

Also… just think of all the Hurt/Comfort fan-fiction that could stem from this… the possibilities…

Whereas Hero Killer: Stain is nearby and has a death wish…

In the same vein as the “Cost an Arm” Theory, a prolonged fight with All for One, regardless of how cool the mech armor is, will likely lead to Toshinori injured and appear to be at risk of a death blow. (There must be distress for the positive turn of the battle to be an amazing relief.)

Enter, Hero Killer: Stain who has been shown to be in an area resembling Kamino where Toshinori will be fighting.

(Is that the Green Goblin flying thing Stain has?)

Stain can do two things that could alter the direction of the fight:

One, Stain’s Quirk only needs a single drop of blood to temporarily paralyze All for One, giving them much needed time to stall.

Two, Stain could very well take a death blow in Toshinori’s place. Stain has repeatedly said that All Might is the only one who is allowed to kill him… but he may just have to settle for dying for All Might instead. Given how Stain is the way he is, it isn’t difficult to imagine this playing out.

Whereas Toshinori revisits Izuku’s question from the very beginning…

In MHA 386, Toshinori remembers Izuku’s question from the very start of the series.

Izuku at the start asks “個性がなくてもヒーローは出来ますか!?” “Kosei ga nakutemo hero wa dekimasu ka!?” “Even without a Quirk, can [I/someone without a quirk] be a hero?”

When Toshinori answered this question and offered Izuku the chance to earn One for All, he said “君はヒーローになれる” “Kimi wa hero ni nareru.” “You can become a hero.”

Aoimikans pointed this out to me when reading the Japanese version. There is a difference in what both Izuku and Toshinori are saying. “Can be” is different from “become.”

Izuku was asking: Can a Quirkless person be a hero?

Toshinori’s original answer was essentially: No, but you can become a hero if you have this Quirk.

This is so, so very significant in the context of Toshinori’s final fight and thematically for the story as a whole. He is about to give Izuku the answer he was originally looking for: “Yes. Yes, you can be Quirkless and a hero.” Toshinori is personally trying to prove to Izuku that Quirkless people can be heroes.

Izuku was Quirkless, and was a hero from the moment his body moved on its own in chapter one. Toshinori is Quirkless now, and he is a hero.

What does that mean in the overarching world of MHA? If a Quirkless person can be a hero in a world where Quirks exist, anyone can be a hero. More on this in a bit…

Whereas Nighteye’s vision of a certain terrible death died with him and Izuku isn’t the only one who can twist fate…

In trying to get Toshinori to retire early after his first fight with AfO, Sir Nighteye blurted out that he had looked into Toshinori’s future and saw his terrible death at the hands of a villain. Toshinori and Nighteye both were convinced that what Nighteye sees is the hard truth—once it is seen, it is set in stone.

This idea is thoroughly challenged when Nighteye foresees his own and Izuku’s death during the fight with Overhaul, and yet Izuku does not die. Nighteye says that it may be possible that the will—the thoughts and beliefs—of so many people altered fate.

Nighteye’s vision of Izuku’s death was proved wrong, and in dying Nighteye took with him the certainty of his visions (and the ability to double check for a certain changed future). So, Toshinori’s own predicted terrible fate is not so certain anymore.

It’s important to note that Izuku doesn’t have to be the focal point of this bending of fate. It just takes the will of many people. Which leads to a possible prediction…

Whereas civilians did not all go underground to evacuate…

While there has been a good amount of focus given the civilians that took refuge with the help of U.A. and are currently in moving sections to evacuate the area, not everyone chose to follow that lead. Some have been seen to have hunkered down elsewhere in attempts to protect themselves. Not to mention all the civilians Izuku encountered during the Dark Deku arc.

There is the possibility that those civilians may get the message that or witness Toshinori fighting without his Quirk and decide collectively to step in and try to help. Their bodies may also move on their own and they may act heroically in this crucial moment. And, as mentioned above, it takes the will of many to change fate. All the heroes fighting, all the civilians evacuating, all the civilians possibly out there trying to weather this storm, those are the kind of numbers that could alter fate.

And Toshinori has physically checked in on them. He’s gone to the civilians in person after his encounter with Stain.

Aoimikans would also like to mention that Naomasa Tsukauchi just yelled, “You’re Quirkless!!!” for the whole world to hear. It wasn’t just the internal radio. La Brava has been broadcasting the fights in Japan for the ENTIRE world to see. Not only will the civilians in Japan wish for Toshinori Yagi’s success, but people around the world are glued to their screens at this very moment watching what’s happening in Japan.

This theory that civilians will perhaps provide the backup needed for Toshinori to succeed in prolonging the fight to stall AfO is not unrealistic… Well, Aizawa said it best.

What is more brazen and cocksure than Toshinori going out to fight All for One, alone, while Quirkless? Of course the civilians Toshinori met personally would be inspired to action by him.

Additionally, we have an additional theory as to how a crowd of civilians could help (beyond the hoping and wishing and and possibly watching on screens if someone is out there to record the fight) and it is connected to altered fate, the will of a person, how Quirks work, Quirkless people being heroes, and All for One’s current condition.

Whereas All for One has known motives and flaws…

What do we know about All for One?

We know he grew up idolizing the villain from his younger brother’s comic books, believing they would win despite him not reading to the end of the story. We know he was obsessive over keeping his brother to himself.

We know he grew in power and influence by using his Quirk to steal other Quirks and gave Quirks to those seeking power in exchange for their service. He bought loyalty when he could and dished out terror when he could not. We know he created mindless servants called Noumu with the doctor’s help.

We know he has been chasing the vestige of his brother and has killed the other holders of One for All in his pursuit.

All for One is an apt name for his Quirk and himself. He wants to take all things for himself and take revenge on those who get in his way: the previous One for All users, any person that betrays him like Nagant, and—most notably—All Might.

However, the All for One we are most familiar with is the 200+ year old man who has time and patience to spare, the All for One who plays the long game. That All for One no longer exists.

What do we know about the current All for One?

The current All for One is on a time limit. He is vicious and powerful, pushing the Quirks he has taken to their fullest power. He takes Quirks without hesitation when he can get a hand on someone, whether he needs them or not.

This All for One is impatient and acts without that same careful consideration of the All for One that played the long game. He is rushing to get to Shigaraki in order to save himself, and still he could not resist the pull of his anger, his hatred for All Might.

This All for One is not the rational thinking villain he was, and he cannot contain or fully control the Quirks in his body. Toshinori knows this, and this spells AfO’s doom.

Whereas understanding the nature of Quirks is critical to this fight…

Aoimikans and I love talking and theorizing about Quirks. Just take our ongoing fan-fiction with @toshinoumu. We only used what we knew was canon, expanded on those ideas, and ended up predicting the High End Noumu (years in advance), the Doctor’s involvement, and a number of facts about Quirks. Quirks are really cool to explore, and understanding how they work is crucial to understanding the overall story.

What are Quirks? Quirks are not just powers, they are a vital part of the person that has one. 個性 or “kosei” has a more literal translation than “Quirk.” 個性 “Kosei” translates to “individuality.”

Why is it significant that they aren’t just abilities or mutations? Quirks reflect the person and the person is often compelled by the kind of Quirk they have. The most prominent examples are those persons with Quirks that affect their actions in a negative way. Toga’s Quirk drives her desire to drink blood and become another person. La Brava’s Quirk requires her to love someone and to express that love in order to be used, which was detrimental to her relationships in her youth and critical for her partnership with Gentle.

Quirks can and have affected the thinking of the person who has them. It’s a little chicken-before-the-egg when it is the person’s own Quirk, but it is critical when we consider those given Quirks that either “don’t suit them” or when we look at the multi-Quirked Noumu.

Ill-suited Quirks. In the case of Quirks that don’t suit a person, let’s look at Aoyama and Shigaraki. Aoyama was Quirkless before AfO gave him the Navel Laser. His body was physically pained by the ill-fitting Quirk. That’s a physical drawback. How about mental? We have theorized since Tenko’s backstory was revealed that AfO was the man in the doorway and that he gave Tenko the Quirk Decay (and may have taken Air Walk from him, see previous meta post MHA: Fling Theory for the section on Tenko and the man in the doorway). The trauma of awakening Decay as well as the introduction of whatever mental influence having Decay, a Quirk that’s only use seems to be destroying, turned Tenko into Shigaraki, the villain that wants to destroy everything.

What’s up with Noumu? Noumu are the product of having multiple Quirks forced into one body. The mind becomes overwhelmed and the Noumu becomes an obeying puppet who acts according to the will of their master at the sound of their voice.

How being Quirkless makes a difference: In addition to what we know about Noumu, we know from the record of the previous users lives that One for All was difficult for the previous users to carry and live for very long—the longest lived being the 4th user who died of old age at 40, not an old age. The only users who were not as impacted in this way were Toshinori and Izuku who were Quirkless.

It’s clear that Quirks—particularly multiple Quirks—can negatively impact the wrong body, and it is more than physical. It’s mental and it’s in a way spiritual.

Quirks carry the spirit of the person, their dreams, and their will. That piece lives on and persists.

We know because of One for All that the will and spirit of the previous OfA users lives on with thoughts and wills of their own. We have seen the vestiges of not only the OfA users, but also the ghostly silhouettes of the Quirks within All for One and the parasitic All for One that is within and attached to Shigaraki. We have seen what happens when Shigaraki-AfO takes in a Quirk whose will challenges his own—Star’s Quirk revolted inside his mindscape and destroyed some of the Quirks within. We have seen AfO attack the Quirks’ ghostly vestiges that tried to stop him when he was fighting Jirou, Tokoyami, Dark Shadow, and Hawks.

All for One even elaborated on his own experiences with the consciousnesses of those Quirks he stole and explained how OfA carried the consciousnesses of the users forward.

With that understanding, it isn’t hard to see how a Quirk like All for One could influence or match All for One’s desires and actions. He is driven to take Quirks. And given that AfO himself admits to be haunted by the consciousness from other people who can rebel against him, it makes sense that he has had to practice some kind of focus to keep himself from experiencing the drawbacks of having Quirks that rebel within him.

A mental focus, current All for One lacks.

Whereas All for One wrote himself out of the story chapters ago…

The All for One who played the long game gave himself one last tool to rewind his body to its prime, but it was one and done. One use, no going back. Yes, in using this card, he was able to grow more powerful with the knowledge he would disappear. No, I don’t believe he used it with a full understanding of what that would do to his mind.

In using this last ditch card, he wrote himself out of the story.

All for One is as self-serving as he always has been, but now he is being rash. He’s looking to reunite with Shigaraki-AfO to become one again before he really does disappear. As he regresses and de-ages, he is not in full rational control of his desires. He takes Quirks without needing to, he isn’t holding the Quirks he uses back, and when faced with Toshinori Yagi, he cannot help but stop regardless of his time limit.

Aoimikans and I have theorized for some time that AfO could be overwhelmed by Quirks he takes into himself. This could, if we are correct about a number of predictions, be a key factor in the coming fight.

What would happen if he is stalled, short on time, not in control of his desires and acts irrationally, and his fight with Toshinori doesn’t go as well as he wants?

What would happen if a crowd of civilians acted with heroic impulse to help Toshinori? And what would happen if all those people shared a singular idea, a singular focus of will, to help save Toshinori and defeat All for One?

What would happen if All for One acted on an uncontrolled impulse and decided to take and take and take those Quirks from people who come to help Toshinori?

What would happen if his focus slips and the rebelling spirits of Quirks he stole—including Hawks’ spirit—fight back from within?

What happens when Toshinori proves a Quirkless person can be a hero? Could someone, or many people, become heroes by becoming Quirkless?

Could the man who takes everything for himself be defeated by Toshinori, the man who gave all of himself for the world, and all those who may give up a piece of themselves to help Toshinori?

Whereas I stop being so long winded and summarize…

This is the final fight between Toshinori and All for One. Toshinori is at the greatest height of his post-Kamino character arc—Quirkless, heroic, confident, and determined. All for One may be at his physical best, but he is at his mental weakest and doesn’t have long before his own actions rewind him out of existence. Toshinori only has to stall, and he will be successful in that endeavor—though may be injured in the process. Toshinori will possibly get some help from Stain since he is nearby and wants to die by All Might’s hands anyway, might have to settle for dying for him.

Toshinori will live because his character arc bends in that direction, no other outcome makes sense or would be a satisfactory ending. His death wouldn’t help Izuku, wouldn’t add to the story, and so cannot happen.

The pairs for the last big fights are coming together. The Todoroki family vs Dabi/Touya. Toshinori Yagi vs All for One. Izuku and Bakugou vs Shigaraki. And probably back to Toga and Uraraka at some point as well as Kurogiri, Mic, and Aizawa.

All for One’s current mental state puts him in an internal dilemma. He is not in full rational control of himself and therefore is ripe for rebellion from within! All the vestiges of Quirks stolen—past and present—could very well help to confuse/stall him during the fight with Toshinori. As they already have in his fight with Jirou, Tokoyami, and Hawks.

Citizens could also come to Toshinori’s aid and add their will to his, which could very well help alter Toshinori’s “terrible death” fate. Also, they could possibly become Quirkless if AfO lets his dark urges take control and takes their Quirks (which would only make his mental situation worse), and be heroes in that moment with Toshinori.

All for One will fall at Kamino. He will rewind and rewind…

We aren’t sure what happens to AfO if he reaches a child-like age. Will he be the same person, only less controlled? Or will we see a sad, childish side of All for One that just wants his brother back? If so, would Toshinori sit with this lost child until the end? Horikoshi has a tendency to show the child within the characters so far, it isn’t impossible AfO will get the same treatment.

Either way, everything supports the case for Toshinori Yagi living. We’ll see what comes next.

Thanks for reading! :3

#meta post updated #bnha #mha #toshinori yagi #Toshinori lives #mha 396 #mha 397 #mha 398

252 notes · View notes

toshinoumu · 1 year