#*dons Groucho Marx getup* Yes 'tis I! My—Romy's—great-great-grea....omething granddaughter!

[agallimaufryofoddments]

Do you think Eve became immortal?

No. Nothing in the text indicates she did, not even that notorious 2002 line in Volume 4's Epilogue...

"Well, we’ve gotten real generous donations from the acting head of the Genoard family for generations."

...or rather, the notorious fan translation version: "Ah, while Mr. Genoard was alive he would frequently donate money," which spawned an enduring fandom mythconeption that Dallas lived to have a change of heart (and took over from Eve as head?). The original Japanese does not indicate gender, as the official translation shows, but the 'acting heads' are probably successive (e.g. child, grandchild) than one constant person like Eve.

Do I think it is especially likely that Eve would become (a complete) immortal? No, neither by choice or by accident—though the former isn't necessarily made obvious or guaranteed by her Christian faith, while the latter isn't necessarily the more believable scenario since it and the other depend on someone creating more Grand Panacea.

That’s my answer done and sorted, no need to peek BELOW THE CUT, where I make things unnecessarily difficult for myself by asking “but, like, would she though?” (Spoiler: I still err on the side of “probably not.”)

Let us suppose she is given that choice. I think the vast majority of Christians across denominations and degree of religious education (of which Eve possesses none), would consider the question a spiritual one. However, I think your average Christian layperson on the streets of '20s-era New Jersey, if asked whether they would drink an immortality elixir that made them biologically immortal, would have no idea how to answer; they would have not conceived of immortality in this fashion. Immortality was (and is) intrinsically understood to mean life after death and rarely needed a qualifying prefix when mentioned.

Suffice it to say, Eve knows so little of her faith beyond God, angels, and an afterlife that, while I do think the choice would be spiritual in nature for her, it's not one she's theologically equipped for—let alone most people. Still: one cannot assume all Christians today would choose to reject an immortality elixir. It’s simply not true.

Eve would have to answer for herself whether if she would be "moving outside God's grace" by accepting the GP's immortality, or whether she is 'cheating' God in doing so (personally I suspect it is much harder to leave God's grace or cheat God than you'll hear some people say). If she at all believes in a soul innately tied to one's individuality, and that soul and consciousness are interlinked, would she feel trepidation over what it might mean if and other immortal devours her, her 'soul', her consciousness?

(If it is that one's soul and consciousness are detached concepts, what would happen to her soul when an immortal eats her  'consciousness'? How can one's soul know to seek God, life after death, without conscious direction? Now we are getting into the theological weeds I tried to avoid.)

Although Baccano! has more self-declared atheists or irreligious persons in its cast, problems of the self, of personal identity, of life after death, and even ‘the soul’ resurface throughout the series. Are the memories, skills, and knowledge of Immortal A, as devoured by Immortal B, constituent parts of a ‘soul’? A ‘self? Renee, who wonders where one’s bodily matter goes when devoured, believes she is the sum of her memories and thus in a form of her continuation after death (potentially comparable to the ideas of Descartes and later philosophers). Claire does not believe in God but is nonetheless preoccupied with life after inconceivable death. Do homunculi have ‘souls’? Christopher agonizes over this. Melvi challenges Ennis directly on whether she has the same personality—”’soul’, for lack of a better word” after devouring the alchemist.

Elmer, in concluding the non-existence of God, has committed to pursuing happiness on Earth in God’s absence.

Anon, I admit that Eve would be an interesting Grand Panacea candidate by dint of her overt religiousness. Unlike most of the alchemists, Eve would be choosing between two immortalities (terrestrial and spiritual), rather than immortality vs. mortality—and it is reasonable to assume that a Christian would say “terrestrial immortality is not immortality,” therefore Eve rejects the former.

Essentially, one asks, “Why would Eve, a Christian, choose to drink the Grand Panacea and delay ‘true’ eternal life?” (Or worse, depending on one’s perception of God). What reason could compel her to stay? There is one reason I could entertain, as based entirely off her characterization in Volume 4: altruistic Elmer-moding. The longer Eve is on Earth, the more Christian good she can do—can’t she? She could choose to dedicate her prolonged life on Earth in service to the Lord and in self-sacrifice to others. It is in Volume 4 that Eve achieves clarity of understanding: prayer is not enough; prayer must be followed by action, she the prayer must become a player (forgive me).

However... One can realize immortality through legacy, especially if one has a fortune—which Eve will once Nader restores hers in 1935. If she is mortal, she has succeeded in instilling the virtues of philanthropy in her successors (and tight restrictions on her estate), c.f. the philanthropic donations the Genoards have made to the New Jersey Hospital. She has ensured that her money and her descendants (?) will continue doing good in her absence, which, in a way, is most high-minded outcome of all.

Ensuring that good deeds will continue without your presence being necessary is indisputably altruistic. Eve has the fortune to achieve that where Elmer does not—hell, Elmer sort of entirely dropped pursuing universal happiness-through-wealth distribution because of Huey—so it makes a sort of sense for her to “sow the charity seeds now, reap the spiritual rewards later,” and Elmer to instead be the “secular monk wandering Earth for eternity in pursuit of terrestrial rewards.” Y’know. One takes the Johnny Appleseed legend to heart (plant seeds today for tomorrow’s orchards so that you may will over them a long shadow), the other decides to be Johnny Appleseed, but, like, forever planting individual seeds and never sticking around long enough to witness or ensure it they bear fruit and multiply.

Edit: Note that this is still toeing the line of broad religious-based speculation and character-based speculation. Unless the text goes into more specifics about Eve’s personal religious beliefs and knowledge, I am somewhat left to fall back on generalized expectations and suppositions... Though I fully admit I am likely forgetting a lot of Eve-related details that are mentioned in the books. End edit.

Edit x2: Wow, I completely forgot to entertain the idea of Eve becoming immortal for love. Right. Whoopsie. I know that there are fans who like the idea of Luck/Eve (I’m...blanking on any other common pairings for her; I’ve already given an opinion on that fan pairing in some older post), so if you or anyone else had that in mind... Would Eve become immortal for love?

I have to take the generic “general supposition” perspective here, again, because the novels shed as little insight into Eve’s desires and thoughts on romance as they do her faith. Quite possibly less. It just hasn’t come into play. With this in mind... Christians are to put God first, and so do they love and worship God above all else; to love God ‘totally’ is Christian life’s first principle. 

As a Dr. Phil Brown put it, “To love God is to self sacrificially commit oneself to delight in Him, to rejoice in serving Him, to desire continually to please Him, to seek one’s happiness in Him, and to thirst day and night for a fuller enjoyment of Him.”

I could guess that Eve would be spiritually conflicted; I could guess that she might view “delaying death” on Earth for the love of a spouse as putting God second to him. She would have to ask herself if she desires the earthly pleasures in one’s spouse more than the timely eternal joy of the Father, the Son... Could she truly choose a spouse over God? Who could or would?

...Well, one can acknowledge the unique position she would be in if she married an immortal. By dying as a mortal, she would be signing up for long afterlife without the spouse who remains on Earth—and, if we are to believe she would marry a morally questionable person like Luck in the first place, which I find difficult to, Eve (with her rudimentary understanding of heaven and hell) would have no guarantee they would find each other again later. (Even Ronny has no guarantee on an afterlife, so there’s really no guarantee for her that immortals would, all the paragraphs up to now aside).

If she could manage to continue serving God in her fullest capacity while living a terrestrial immortal life on earth with an immortal spouse... Well, if she could, bully for her, but that does bring us back what was earlier said about immortal legacy beyond self. I’m already paving my own unending eternal circle here, so never mind that.

I think it would be emotionally and spiritually safer for Eve to remain mortal in this specific regard, and for her to marry another Christian? If only because when she dies she has the comfort in certainty of knowing her spouse will join her in xyz years (same in reverse).

Edit x3: You know what though, anon, this all assumes in the first place that someone manages to explain to or convince Eve that Ronny is not The Devil or any sort of demon to be associated with evil. I imagine that association would be somewhat hard to shake, even for a girl who took Isaac and Miria to be actual angels from heaven.

Back to the last two paragraphs...

Well, this got away from me. Happily, the paragraphs above the cut did actually answer the question in short order. It’s like I’m fundamentally incapable of leaving most asks “at that” or something; I didn’t...need...to expand beyond the fairly straightforward scope of the original question.

By the by, I recommend looking through the Ingersoll Lectures on Immortality as printed in the 1920s if you want some interesting (short) contemporary multi-disciplinary think-pieces on “Immortality and the Modern Mind,” “Immortality and the Present Mood,” “Selfhood and Faith in Immortality,” and the like.

#Baccano! #Baccano #Eve Genoard #Immortality #Anonymous #Asked and Answered #Meanwhile in Vamp!...Romy Mars every generation for the past few hundred years: #*dons Groucho Marx getup* Yes 'tis I! My—Romy's—great-great-grea....omething granddaughter! #See the real Naritaverse take goes something like 'Right—we've got Romy already... Are we thinking that B! should offer Eve as a rival?' #Ohoho... goes the reply. 'But B! already has such a rival: the Lady Lucrezia! No?' #'Right but is she the acting head of the Dormentaires' you argue. #'Details shmetails. She's an immortal woman wielding her family's power and money—close enough.'