#There's heavy elements of that in how they conceptualized penetrator vs penetrated but the erastes (lover/protector) and eromenos (beloved)

[prolibytherium]

Absolutely death gripped clenched trying not to comment on reductive posts on ancient greek homosexual relationships

#It is neither wholly '0mg two gay guys in love!!' and 'I am humiliating and debasing a lower man by making a woman out of him' #There's heavy elements of that in how they conceptualized penetrator vs penetrated but the erastes (lover/protector) and eromenos (beloved) #relationship was significantly more complex than that #Like it is conceptualized as sort of a mentor/mentee relationship and a positive element for an adolescent's development #It was the subject of romantic plays and you get things like people in antiquity in heated debates over who is the #erastes and who is the eromenos between Achilles and Patroclus (to better depict them in plays) #The bottom line is more 'the socially accepted m/m relationships were (what we would now consider) an adult and a child #(or young man) with the age difference being a fundamental element to the dynamic.' #And more broadly being penetrated in sex assigned a 'lower' or 'womanly' role and it would not be conventionally accepted #for an older/more socially powerful man to recieve penetration (which certainly DID happen though) #So absolutely a moment in the history of male homosexuality and not something to just go 'ew ew bad evil ewwie' about but also #not something you want to project modern conceptions of LGBT identity upon #Also we know relatively little about relationships between women in ancient Greece due to lack of sources due to being a #highly patriarchal culture but we can't actually know that they did not involve similar power dynamic #Certainly not to the same extent or in such a well socially defined way (bc they conceptualize sex almost entirely through a lens of #penetration) but I think you should be treating relations between ancient Greek women with the same degree of #historical distance from our lives and identities today. #Ok death grip failed I just typed an entire rant. Fiuck it